Unconditional block skills are far too common

Unconditional block skills are far too common

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Posted by: cheese.4739

cheese.4739

By ’unconditional block’ I mean something like Shield Stance, which blocks all attacks for its duration.

They’ve always been powerful - allowing near-invulnerability while still contesting a point, since there are relatively few unblockable skills in the game. Heart of Thorns added many more, contributing significantly to the ridiculous powercreep that Elite Specs brought us.

They’re great in PvE, since they allow devs to design hard-and-fast-hitting mobs whose attacks you can block with your cool new skills.

They’re arguably fair in WvW, since they give folks a fighting chance against the spamfest that is zerg fighting. They can make smaller-scale fights frustrating and dull, but when you’ve got food and ascended stats and access to all the banned-in-PvP stats and runes... I don’t think this matters much.

In PvP, though? Ugh.

Several seconds of pretty much just free point contesting, during which time the caster’s other cooldowns are ticking away. They add little to nothing of interest - yes, a well-timed block is a powerful thing, but a three-second block barely requires any kind of timing to be effective. I don’t think blocks should be removed from play - they’re an important strategic element - but as things are, they just add to the sustain of many builds, particularly those with Elite Specialisations, and remove a lot of the action from fights. I could kind of deal with Engi’s Gear Shield (though not as part of the decap build...) but now it feels like every skirmish includes multiple several-second breathers while players pop their blocks.

There are three main changes I can think of, to reduce the effectiveness of unconditional blocks, that might be reasonable:

1) Add more unblockable skills and traits.
This one is a bit iffy, because it makes conditional blocks (e.g. Aegis or Arcane Shield) significantly weaker. It could be interesting to have a block-hate traitline or two, but it could also become a balance nightmare and be perpetually flipping between OP and useless.

2) Reduce the duration/increase the cooldown of unconditional block skills
Basically... nerf them without changing functionality. A change like this would make players have to think rather harder before popping a block skill, since it wouldn’t be able to nullify as many attacks, or may not be available to negate a bigger hit later.

3) Turn many into conditional blocks.
Obvious enough - only allow these skills to block a limited number of attacks, maybe giving a counterattack or heal effect if enough hits are absorbed. I’d like this best for sPvP, where there are only a limited number of spells in any one area, but of course this would make such skills rather less useful in large-scale WvW.

Are there any other potential solutions I’m missing? Am I in the minority for thinking that unconditional blocks are too widely available?

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Posted by: mrauls.6519

mrauls.6519

I like your thinking

Mes (Guardian)
I make PvP & WvW videos

Unconditional block skills are far too common

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

The answer is #2 and #3. There’s already too much unblockable power creep in the game, so starting an “arms race” with #1 is not the way to go.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

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Posted by: holychampion.7386

holychampion.7386

This has already been solved. An example is the guardian skill “Renewed Focus”. It was nerfed to NOT contribute to point cap.

Then again, guardian invulnerability (Which doesn’t make you invulnerable because condis keep hitting, DUH ANET) is the ONLY one which doesn’t contribute to point cap.
Expand that common sense to the rest of the blocks and problem solved.

EDITED: We do NOT need more unblockable skills.. Aegis as it is is a joke and as you said, if you were to further expand it’s uselesness it would be a sick joke to the guardian.
I repeat. PLEASE DO NOT ADD MORE UNBLOCKABLE SKILLS

(edited by holychampion.7386)

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Posted by: MadVisions.4529

MadVisions.4529

1) Add more unblockable skills and traits.

i’ve been told that every drip of power creep kills a baby elephant in Africa :’(

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Posted by: Glott.7239

Glott.7239

Another option could be to turn blocking time frames into stacking and ticking aegis. So basically warrior shield 5 will no longer blocks everything for 3 seconds, which is practically equivalent too 3 second of invulnerability, instead it grands X stacks of aegis every X seconds. This way fast attacking skills, like ranger longbow 2 or warrior greatsword 2 can partially pierce through it or help to set up a well timed interrupt. The second counterplay option would obviously be boonstrip. Of course this change might require small tweaks to some of the guardian traits . Projectile only- and onetime-blocks can remain unchanged for now.

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Posted by: Ragion.2831

Ragion.2831

This has already been solved. An example is the guardian skill “Renewed Focus”. It was nerfed to NOT contribute to point cap.

Then again, guardian invulnerability (Which doesn’t make you invulnerable because condis keep hitting, DUH ANET) is the ONLY one which doesn’t contribute to point cap.
Expand that common sense to the rest of the blocks and problem solved.

EDITED: We do NOT need more unblockable skills.. Aegis as it is is a joke and as you said, if you were to further expand it’s uselesness it would be a sick joke to the guardian.
I repeat. PLEASE DO NOT ADD MORE UNBLOCKABLE SKILLS

lol wait, renewewd focus is the only invuln skill that doesnt contribute to point cap? really

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Posted by: Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

it is fine.

just introduce more unblockable skills to counter the blocks.

case closed.

Unconditional block skills are far too common

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Posted by: holychampion.7386

holychampion.7386

See, guardian is the test subject….

Attachments:

Unconditional block skills are far too common

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Posted by: Kicast.1459

Kicast.1459

See, guardian is the test subject….

Mostly all invul prevent from capping bro:
Mesmer disto
Engi elixir (don’t remember the name)

Endure pain however …let war cap
But war is not cheesy as hell so they deserve it.

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Posted by: SolarDragon.7063

SolarDragon.7063

Endure pain is not a true invuln, attacks will still APPLY conditions, unlike the other invulnvs.

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Posted by: Shaogin.2679

Shaogin.2679

Yeah, all invulns still let any condis previously there still do their thing, and all invulns do not count towards point captures.

As for blocks, I don’t think I’ve ever faced someone with too many blocks. I like the way it is now. I fight someone with blocks, and I have my magnet ready to interrupt, or on my Necro I have my warhorn. Blocks really don’t feel out of control, don’t see the need in asking Anet to mess something up that isn’t broken.

Also, pulsing aegis, by far the worst idea in this thread. It would ruin blocks for WvW, and it would cause more balancing issues in PvP. But hey, Necros would absolutely love to turn all that aegis into burning for ya.

Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
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Posted by: SolarDragon.7063

SolarDragon.7063

You misunderstand my comment on Endure Pain. UNLIKE other invulns, you can still APPLY condis while the warrior is in Endure Pain. You can in fact also CC Endure Pain.

So either bring Endure Pain up to the full level of other invulns, or accept that you can cap points while using it.

(edited by SolarDragon.7063)

Unconditional block skills are far too common

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Posted by: Shaogin.2679

Shaogin.2679

You misunderstand my comment on Endure Pain. UNLIKE other invulns, you can still APPLY condis while the warrior is in Endure Pain. You can in fact also CC Endure Pain.

So either bring Endure Pain up to the full level of other invulns, or accept that you can cap points while using it.

I didn’t misunderstand you, just wasn’t talking to you. That was in reference to the Guardians talking about their invuln skill.

Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
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Posted by: Rome.3192

Rome.3192

Warrior: Signet Mastery (Trait), Signet of Might, Fear Me
Revenant: Phase Traversal
Guardian: Traps (nerfed, sry), Ring of Warding, Line of Warding
Thief: Basi Venom, Choking Gas, Larcenous Strike, Traps
Engineer: Magnet, Slick Shoes, Acid Bomb, Orbital Strike, Poison Grenade, Tornado
Ranger: Roots, Traps
Necro: Marks (traited), Corrupt Boon, Warhorn#4, Dark Path
Mesmer: Mirror Blade, Temporal Curtain
Elementalist: Phoenix, Static Field, Tornado, Unsteady Ground, Magnetic Grasp,

Long duration blocks in the game: Rev shield, War shield, Mesmer shield, Engi shield + gear shield, Guard virtue

Is this few counters? Seems like every class (besides maybe Guardian) has a really easy and reliable way to deal with blocks. Save your CDs if you know you’e fighting a class that’s going to use blocks. That’s what to “git gud” means.

Thief

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Posted by: SolarDragon.7063

SolarDragon.7063

Warrior: Signet Mastery (Trait), Signet of Might, Fear Me
Revenant: Phase Traversal
Guardian: Traps (nerfed, sry), Ring of Warding, Line of Warding
Thief: Basi Venom, Choking Gas, Larcenous Strike, Traps
Engineer: Magnet, Slick Shoes, Acid Bomb, Orbital Strike, Poison Grenade, Tornado
Ranger: Roots, Traps
Necro: Marks (traited), Corrupt Boon, Warhorn#4, Dark Path
Mesmer: Mirror Blade, Temporal Curtain
Elementalist: Phoenix, Static Field, Tornado, Unsteady Ground, Magnetic Grasp,

Long duration blocks in the game: Rev shield, War shield, Mesmer shield, Engi shield + gear shield, Guard virtue

Is this few counters? Seems like every class (besides maybe Guardian) has a really easy and reliable way to deal with blocks. Save your CDs if you know you’e fighting a class that’s going to use blocks. That’s what to “git gud” means.

While I don’t think blocks are really an issue, most of what you linked are joke skills that have nothing going for them apart from being unblockable. For a start, anything that isn’t a CC is going to barely make a difference to your DPS (necro might be an exception here), and you’re burning traits or utilities on them. Secondly, CC’s can run into stability (which is far, far more common) and be wasted.

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Posted by: Ross Biddle.2367

Ross Biddle.2367

The post HoT meta makes me sad trying to slip a power chrono burst in between all the blocks, it is true.

But the post HoT meta also makes me super happy when running my counter meta berserker build, guards, chronos, revs, anything that loves to spam reflects (scrappers, eles), seeing those animations/effects and the squee of delight as I dive headlong into them as they stand to take the oncoming onslaught.

I just wish I could proc an unblockable effect on my mes

Brian Boitano would take unblockables in this meta (1:20 onwards – gamechanger), that’s what Brian Boitano’d do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_78YhAAcs6w

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Warrior: Signet Mastery (Trait), Signet of Might, Fear Me
Revenant: Phase Traversal
Guardian: Traps (nerfed, sry), Ring of Warding, Line of Warding
Thief: Basi Venom, Choking Gas, Larcenous Strike, Traps
Engineer: Magnet, Slick Shoes, Acid Bomb, Orbital Strike, Poison Grenade, Tornado
Ranger: Roots, Traps
Necro: Marks (traited), Corrupt Boon, Warhorn#4, Dark Path
Mesmer: Mirror Blade, Temporal Curtain
Elementalist: Phoenix, Static Field, Tornado, Unsteady Ground, Magnetic Grasp,

Long duration blocks in the game: Rev shield, War shield, Mesmer shield, Engi shield + gear shield, Guard virtue

Is this few counters? Seems like every class (besides maybe Guardian) has a really easy and reliable way to deal with blocks. Save your CDs if you know you’e fighting a class that’s going to use blocks. That’s what to “git gud” means.

Temporal curtain only goes through blocks in the wild fantasies of mesmers, but not in real life I’m afraid.

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Posted by: Rome.3192

Rome.3192

While I don’t think blocks are really an issue, most of what you linked are joke skills that have nothing going for them apart from being unblockable. For a start, anything that isn’t a CC is going to barely make a difference to your DPS (necro might be an exception here), and you’re burning traits or utilities on them. Secondly, CC’s can run into stability (which is far, far more common) and be wasted.

I’ll reiterate.

Warrior: Fear Me, the numerous CCs with signet.
Guardian: Used to be traps, now none. I suppose Line of Warding or Ring of Warding if your placement is exceptional.
Rev: Phase Traversal into Staff 5
Thief: Basi Venom
Engineer: Magnet
Ranger: Pet taunt used to do this, but rooting while someone is blocking is still pretty strong.
Mesmer: Temporal Curtain
Necro: So many, warhorn 4, staff 5, dark path when they have stab with PoC
Elementalist: Static Field, Unsteady Ground

That’s a whole plethora of unblockable CCs that will get your opponent out of their block.

Thief

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

While I don’t think blocks are really an issue, most of what you linked are joke skills that have nothing going for them apart from being unblockable. For a start, anything that isn’t a CC is going to barely make a difference to your DPS (necro might be an exception here), and you’re burning traits or utilities on them. Secondly, CC’s can run into stability (which is far, far more common) and be wasted.

I’ll reiterate.

Warrior: Fear Me, the numerous CCs with signet.
Guardian: Used to be traps, now none. I suppose Line of Warding or Ring of Warding if your placement is exceptional.
Rev: Phase Traversal into Staff 5
Thief: Basi Venom
Engineer: Magnet
Ranger: Pet taunt used to do this, but rooting while someone is blocking is still pretty strong.
Mesmer: Temporal Curtain
Necro: So many, warhorn 4, staff 5, dark path when they have stab with PoC
Elementalist: Static Field, Unsteady Ground

That’s a whole plethora of unblockable CCs that will get your opponent out of their block.

Again, temporal curtain is not an unblockable cc. The cripple from walking over the line is unblockable, but I’m pretty sure you’re not jumping for joy about that one. The pull is very blockable.

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Posted by: Shaogin.2679

Shaogin.2679

Also, if you don’t have a bunch of unblockable cc, it’s not the end of the world. My Engi can’t effectively strip boons that are being spammed like crazy, but that is ok cause this is a team game and not every class is great at everything.

Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

why is this a problem? blocks arent even a big deal.

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