Guild Wars 2

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNBMhNak0J5t5x6hJOggZohVh+gdkegGsRaA-TsAAzCpIySllLLTWyssZNCZFysCA

this is a simple build that i use for myself when i play my warrior in hotjoin

been kinda using this build for a long time since embrace pain was merged into cleansing ire.

i like it. serves me well in sPvP and WvW (Pvt armor + Berserker trinkets, boon duration runes for WvW though)

hopefully when they shave warrior, they leave healing signet alone since the passive healing from healing signet is worth having now. before the buff healing signet is quite useless.

Zanryu.3417:

The hypothesis is that Berserker Amulet outperforms Barbarian Amulet, and as it offers nothing but pure damage this translates into: Berserker Amulet has enough damage to justify it over a Barbarian Amulet, which grants HP as well as the same crit rate.

No that is NOT a hypothesis that you can test, as it is currently. That isn’t refined at all.

Zanryu.3417:

There is no variance because I use the exact same build, exact same skill, and exact same weapon for both tests. The weapon used was Steady, meaning no variation in the damage it can do.

No there IS statistical variance.

Zanryu.3417:

Shooting 1 Arcing Arrow will net the same results as shooting 1,000 in this case.

No no no no no. This is all wrong. Just all wrong. Again, you do not test the statistical accuracy of a coin flip by flipping it 2 times.

Zanryu.3417:

The only possible variables or deviation would be in testing with other builds or amulets, however I’m comparing the effects of both amulets on this one build.

No this is wrong.

Zanryu.3417:

I’m not shoving personal bias down anyone’s throat. I’ve stated many times, very clearly, that I want an actual discussion.

No you don’t. You clearly have no interest in figuring this out because you constantly constantly provide absolutely terrible testing methods. It is quite obvious you know little to nothing about statistical testing.

Zanryu.3417:

If I was bias I’d say “Yeah man, Warriors aren’t OP and you just suck. I don’t care what your reason is just get out. Warriors 4 lief homiezzz”

You apparently haven’t heard of politicians or lobby groups before. You think they win arguments with their lies by saying, “U suck”?

I don’t need to test crap. The burden of proof is on you, not me.

For christ sake, here is a template of what I’m looking for:

This was from 3 months ago and my questions have been resolved regarding this issue.

You typically have at least 35 trials since its the “magic number” in statistics, but because I succinctly defined my hypothesis, I can test the accuracy rather easily if I had less number of trials. Also note: I’ve set this all up so YOU can run the tests yourself so you can get the exact same numbers that I do. I’ve posted my data set IN the post as well.

if i were testing things i’d probably start out by using the steady weapons to minimize variance but that’s just me.

As people stated before; this isnt the way to proof that something is OP or not. I could make a random video aswell with me playing on any other profession, showing all my deaths and stating after every death that that specific profession is really weak.

Seeing how OP is a relative term. The only opinion i trust in this matter is the opinion of quality non biased multiclassers, who play a wide variety of classes.
People who are honest enough to confess that their own class is too strong in certain areas. While pretty much everyone will state they are NOT biased, only very few MMO players are able to do that.

Someone like Ostricheggs for example to name a relatively well known example. (eventhough he would probably say he is biased). A guy that played every single profession at least a 200-300 tpvp games.

If you ask for my personal opinion. I had my first series of spvp matches as warrior tonight. It was far to easy for something that i never played before… 1v2ing multiple times every single match. But than again, i might be a very talented warrior. Who knows

Lol everyone is a talented Warrior. Just roll forehead across keyboard.

Just put 15 or 20 sec cd on burst skills and problem is solved …

deda.8302:

Just put 15 or 20 sec cd on burst skills and problem is solved …

and put 60 seconds on shatter,steal and pet skills.Problem solved

Or is it ?

Relentliss.2170:

Lol everyone is a talented Warrior. Just roll forehead across keyboard.

Everyone is a talented (put class here) that loses against no talented warrior.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Zanryu.3417:

The hypothesis is that Berserker Amulet outperforms Barbarian Amulet, and as it offers nothing but pure damage this translates into: Berserker Amulet has enough damage to justify it over a Barbarian Amulet, which grants HP as well as the same crit rate.

No that is NOT a hypothesis that you can test, as it is currently. That isn’t refined at all.

Zanryu.3417:

There is no variance because I use the exact same build, exact same skill, and exact same weapon for both tests. The weapon used was Steady, meaning no variation in the damage it can do.

No there IS statistical variance.

Zanryu.3417:

Shooting 1 Arcing Arrow will net the same results as shooting 1,000 in this case.

No no no no no. This is all wrong. Just all wrong. Again, you do not test the statistical accuracy of a coin flip by flipping it 2 times.

Zanryu.3417:

The only possible variables or deviation would be in testing with other builds or amulets, however I’m comparing the effects of both amulets on this one build.

No this is wrong.

Zanryu.3417:

I’m not shoving personal bias down anyone’s throat. I’ve stated many times, very clearly, that I want an actual discussion.

No you don’t. You clearly have no interest in figuring this out because you constantly constantly provide absolutely terrible testing methods. It is quite obvious you know little to nothing about statistical testing.

Zanryu.3417:

If I was bias I’d say “Yeah man, Warriors aren’t OP and you just suck. I don’t care what your reason is just get out. Warriors 4 lief homiezzz”

You apparently haven’t heard of politicians or lobby groups before. You think they win arguments with their lies by saying, “U suck”?

I don’t need to test crap. The burden of proof is on you, not me.

For christ sake, here is a template of what I’m looking for:

This was from 3 months ago and my questions have been resolved regarding this issue.

You typically have at least 35 trials since its the “magic number” in statistics, but because I succinctly defined my hypothesis, I can test the accuracy rather easily if I had less number of trials. Also note: I’ve set this all up so YOU can run the tests yourself so you can get the exact same numbers that I do. I’ve posted my data set IN the post as well.

1. That was the situation given to me.

2. Tell me how a hit can change on a weapon with no change in damage using the exact same build on the exact same target with the exact same amulet.

3. See above. Steady Weapons are meant to give the same results each time, they’re test weapons. I used them for this purpose.

4. I do or I wouldn’t have made this thread. The test I did has nothing to do with whether or not Warriors are OP, I simply made it to determine the difference in amulets when using my current build.

5. As has been said before, it’s difficult to show whether or not a class is OP. There’s a large amount of variables such as player skill, opponent skill, class matchups, utility skill differences, build differences, starting off fights against ready opponents or opponents with cooldowns, the maps (as different maps can motivate people to use different strategies or even builds). However, rather than “shove my bias down people’s throats” I’m calling for a discussion of the class using whatever people have as proof. I want an actual discussion. If I haven’t made that clear yet I’m not really sure how to.

As said before, I wasn’t testing the other mechanics of my class. I was testing the difference in amulets meaning that type of test would do no good and the one I used is accurate.

6. Oh lawdy.

There’s not really too many ways to actually test the things people say make Warriors OP, as there’s many different situations that occur in tPvP. The option could certainly be explored though, do you have any suggestions?

Does anyone have any suggestions? Any would be welcome.

Zanryu.3417:

Does anyone have any suggestions? Any would be welcome.

Play all other classes extensively in spvp. I can assure you that if you did youd realize how over the top warriors are atm. You’d wish that you never made this thread tbh.

Dont get me wrong…they arent gods and they can die. But its incredibly easy to be succesfull while playing warrior “if compared to other profs”. And thats the most important thing:

- How is my burst compared to other classes
- How is my sustained
- How is my survivibility.
- How is my mobility
- How is my control

And when you look at those you have to keep in mind that for specific things to be strong, a class usually has to sacrifice in other areas.

And thats the problem with warriors atm (that they dont have to make those sacrifices). If i play hammer longbow on warrior….the only thing that isnt top tier is the mobility. And the mobility is still above average, esp if you use bullcharge like i do. In all other categories they are top of the line.

Locuz.2651:

Zanryu.3417:

Does anyone have any suggestions? Any would be welcome.

Play all other classes extensively in spvp. I can assure you that if you did youd realize how over the top warriors are atm. You’d wish that you never made this thread tbh.

Dont get me wrong…they arent gods and they can die. But its incredibly easy to be succesfull while playing warrior “if compared to other profs”. And thats the most important thing:

- How is my burst compared to other classes
- How is my sustained
- How is my survivibility.
- How is my mobility
- How is my control

And when you look at those you have to keep in mind that for specific things to be strong, a class usually has to sacrifice in other areas.

And thats the problem with warriors atm (that they dont have to make those sacrifices). If i play hammer longbow on warrior….the only thing that isnt top tier is the mobility. And the mobility is still above average, esp if you use bullcharge like i do. In all other categories they are top of the line.

Our burst and mobility aren’t as good as other classes that don’t rely on high HP pools to survive. See: Thief and Mesmer.

Guardians tend to be the better overall option to bunker with, and even as a condition build our performance is outshined by Engineer and Necromancer. Yes, Warriors have builds allowing them to do quite a few things, however what they can do gets outshined by other classes that can do the same thing. With Bull Charge the Warrior has to sacrifice a defensive utility for mobility, and mobility just for mobility’s sake isn’t my idea of a good build. Sure, you can get to points or escape quicker, but when it comes to the fighting you’re going to be worse off than another Warrior using defensive utilities.

I’ve played Necro and Mesmer, and I’ve gotta say they outperform Warriors in condition and burst damage respectively. My Necro was actually capable of bunkering fairly decently thanks to Death Shroud. I’m not saying I was a pro at it as I didn’t play too large of an amount of games as a Necro, but it did fairly well. I even hopped on it lately for a game or two and was landing quite a few kills from conditions spam.

mini.6018:

deda.8302:

Just put 15 or 20 sec cd on burst skills and problem is solved …

and put 60 seconds on shatter,steal and pet skills.Problem solved

Or is it ?

+++++

Welcome to Ele`s world.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Relentliss.2170:

Lol everyone is a talented Warrior. Just roll forehead across keyboard.

Everyone is a talented (put class here) that loses against no talented warrior.

Thing is after only a few matches I was heaps better on my warrior than on any of my other classes. There was no opportunity cost. Unlike other classes, I could do damage and be very tanky at the same time. I could swap in cc weapons and do all 3. It didn’t seem to matter what order you used your skills at all. There was really no thinking or opportunity cost at all. Missing a skill or using it at the wrong time didn’t matter. I would call that a faceroll.

Zanryu.3417:

With Bull Charge the Warrior has to sacrifice a defensive utility for mobility, and mobility just for mobility’s sake isn’t my idea of a good build.

You do realize bulls charge knocks people down for 2 seconds? Which synchronizes perfectly in a CC chain…which is one of the main reasons im taking it. (are you telling me youre not linking CCs?)

So its not just the mobility.

And sacrificing is a big word when you have multiple short CD immunities like endure pain or berserker stance in case youre in really big trouble. A 10 sec window (traited) where you take 0 dmg from condis every minite on top of for example endure pain that gives 6 sec direct dmg immunity.

And thats on top of the mitigation due to control. People whont touch you when they are getting tossed around with our hammer.

And even if some damage gets through. Warriors have the best HPS in the game atm, with one exception: the necro casted heal when he has a full line of condis on him. The rest is all a lot of weaker….and needs to be casted in most cases.

Locuz.2651:

Zanryu.3417:

With Bull Charge the Warrior has to sacrifice a defensive utility for mobility, and mobility just for mobility’s sake isn’t my idea of a good build.

You do realize bulls charge knocks people down for 2 seconds? Which synchronizes perfectly in a CC chain…which is one of the main reasons im taking it. (are you telling me youre not linking CCs?)

So its not just the mobility.

And sacrificing is a big word when you have multiple short CD immunities like endure pain or berserker stance in case youre in really big trouble. A 10 sec window (traited) where you take 0 dmg from condis every minite on top of for example endure pain that gives 6 sec direct dmg immunity.

And thats on top of the mitigation due to control. People whont touch you when they are getting tossed around with our hammer.

And even if some damage gets through. Warriors have the best HPS in the game atm, with one exception: the necro casted heal when he has a full line of condis on him. The rest is all a lot of weaker….and needs to be casted in most cases.

I’m aware, but I prefer opening with an Earthshaker rather than Bull’s Charge. It’s got mobility and acts as a knockdown, but there such a thing as too offensive. What makes Warriors something to complain about is that they slot defensively. They slot two stability’s and Berserker Stance (or in my case Endure Pain, a Stability, and Berserker Stance) and it becomes harder to prevent them from doing what they want to do.

Bull’s Charge offers no effect outside of the rushing and the knockdown, and while that’s great offensively and to possibly escape a fight, it’s doing you do good immobilized. Even slowed down it’s far less effective. It certainly won’t help if you’re stunned.

Endure Pain only grants 5 seconds traited. One minute is FAR from a short CD, that generally means you only get to use it once per fight. GW2 doesn’t have 15 minutes fights, someone goes down or runs within two minutes in most cases. The most anyone would get to use those skills is likely 3-4 times in one team fight.

Warrior and Necro share the same level of HP. As for the strongest heal, that’s debatable. Different heals have different abilities that makes them good under certain conditions.

Zanryu.3417:

I’m aware, but I prefer opening with an Earthshaker rather than Bull’s Charge. It’s got mobility and acts as a knockdown, but there such a thing as too offensive. What makes Warriors something to complain about is that they slot defensively. They slot two stability’s and Berserker Stance (or in my case Endure Pain, a Stability, and Berserker Stance) and it becomes harder to prevent them from doing what they want to do.

Bull’s Charge offers no effect outside of the rushing and the knockdown, and while that’s great offensively and to possibly escape a fight, it’s doing you do good immobilized. Even slowed down it’s far less effective. It certainly won’t help if you’re stunned.

Endure Pain only grants 5 seconds traited. One minute is FAR from a short CD, that generally means you only get to use it once per fight. GW2 doesn’t have 15 minutes fights, someone goes down or runs within two minutes in most cases. The most anyone would get to use those skills is likely 3-4 times in one team fight.

Warrior and Necro share the same level of HP. As for the strongest heal, that’s debatable. Different heals have different abilities that makes them good under certain conditions.

And thats exactly why you are struggling as warrior. Youre not landing CC chains. I watched the video you uploaded last week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrfvEMGo7Vs&feature=c4-overview&list=UUemuZJXBIqyvL9_mAwDO4yw

Shows exactly that youre just not that aware yet how to play warrior at its full potential. Dont get me wrong, im not either. But i know for a fact that im doing a lot better then you are in skirmishes like that. Most CCs where used randomly, while warriors are about landing that wombocombo that 100-0s people.

What i saw for example is how you tried to get an immob + longbows f1. Problem with is that youre using your adrenaline that you could be using to land a proper hammer F1 in to hammer 5 in to hammer 4 in to bullrush + hammer 2 and 3 while he is knocked down for example.

Getting killed in cc chains like that is what people complain about. In CC chains like this : http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/3063182

The only time i am using the LB F1 is:

- when ppl are fighting on point (and i know for fact that ill hit them)
- just before berserker rage as adrenaline dump
- When i know for a fact i whont go in melee range anytime soon. Like when im shooting from a ledge or w/e.

Zanryu.3417:

but there such a thing as too offensive. What makes Warriors something to complain about is that they slot defensively. .

The best defense is a proper offense. He whont be doing any damage if he gets interupted + knocked down for those 2 extra seconds. And if you get him low during that CC chain he will play defensively himselve.

On top of that…i had plenty of moments where i could disengage and effectively avoiding my death due to bullscharge (followed by a reset + reengage). Balanced stance is nice but doesnt create distance insantly like bullscharge does.

How is that not defensive.

Locuz.2651:

Zanryu.3417:

I’m aware, but I prefer opening with an Earthshaker rather than Bull’s Charge. It’s got mobility and acts as a knockdown, but there such a thing as too offensive. What makes Warriors something to complain about is that they slot defensively. They slot two stability’s and Berserker Stance (or in my case Endure Pain, a Stability, and Berserker Stance) and it becomes harder to prevent them from doing what they want to do.

Bull’s Charge offers no effect outside of the rushing and the knockdown, and while that’s great offensively and to possibly escape a fight, it’s doing you do good immobilized. Even slowed down it’s far less effective. It certainly won’t help if you’re stunned.

Endure Pain only grants 5 seconds traited. One minute is FAR from a short CD, that generally means you only get to use it once per fight. GW2 doesn’t have 15 minutes fights, someone goes down or runs within two minutes in most cases. The most anyone would get to use those skills is likely 3-4 times in one team fight.

Warrior and Necro share the same level of HP. As for the strongest heal, that’s debatable. Different heals have different abilities that makes them good under certain conditions.

And thats exactly why you are struggling as warrior. Youre not landing CC chains. I watched the video you uploaded last week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrfvEMGo7Vs&feature=c4-overview&list=UUemuZJXBIqyvL9_mAwDO4yw

Shows exactly that youre just not that aware yet how to play warrior at its full potential. Dont get me wrong, im not either. But i know for a fact that im doing a lot better then you are in skirmishes like that. Most CCs where used randomly, while warriors are about landing that wombocombo that 100-0s people.

What i saw for example is how you tried to get an immob + longbows f1. Problem with is that youre using your adrenaline that you could be using to land a proper hammer F1 in to hammer 5 in to hammer 4 in to bullrush + hammer 2 and 3 while he is knocked down for example.

Getting killed in cc chains like that is what people complain about. In CC chains like this : http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/3063182

The only time i am using the LB F1 is:

- when ppl are fighting on point (and i know for fact that ill hit them)
- just before berserker rage as adrenaline dump
- When i know for a fact i whont go in melee range anytime soon. Like when im shooting from a ledge or w/e.

Zanryu.3417:

but there such a thing as too offensive. What makes Warriors something to complain about is that they slot defensively. .

The best defense is a proper offense. He whont be doing any damage if he gets interupted + knocked down for those 2 extra seconds. And if you get him low during that CC chain he will play defensively himselve.

On top of that…i had plenty of moments where i could disengage and effectively avoiding my death due to bullscharge (followed by a reset + reengage). Balanced stance is nice but doesnt create distance insantly like bullscharge does.

How is that not defensive.

Skimmed the video for instances of this, only saw one. If there’s more I’ll have to find them when I properly watch it later as I’m about to begin a tournament.

I’ll also edit my post then, after I’ve read your post completely.

EDIT: I haven’t rewatched the video just yet, in another queue however it seems I have time to reply.

I use Combustive Shot on point fairly often, followed by Arcing Arrow.

I understand the person can’t use skills while downed and that it can be used to put them on the defensive, however one Stability changes that. It renders your stuns and knockdowns worthless for the duration. I prefer to slot all defensive utilities to lengthen my time in the fight rather than to allow me to disengage. I can see the advantages, however the longer I can stay up IN the fight, the more useful I am to my team knocking opponents around and firing off Combustive Shots. Disengaging and recovering, then getting back into the fight is a good tactic and there are definitely times I wish I had that mobility. It’s just that I find the Stability I get instead serves me better in what I want to do.

That’s how I see it anyway. I enjoy Bull’s Charge in WvW, but I tend to get mobility wherever I can when doing that since I roam a lot.

Zanryu.3417:

Locuz.2651:

Zanryu.3417:

I’m aware, but I prefer opening with an Earthshaker rather than Bull’s Charge. It’s got mobility and acts as a knockdown, but there such a thing as too offensive. What makes Warriors something to complain about is that they slot defensively. They slot two stability’s and Berserker Stance (or in my case Endure Pain, a Stability, and Berserker Stance) and it becomes harder to prevent them from doing what they want to do.

Bull’s Charge offers no effect outside of the rushing and the knockdown, and while that’s great offensively and to possibly escape a fight, it’s doing you do good immobilized. Even slowed down it’s far less effective. It certainly won’t help if you’re stunned.

Endure Pain only grants 5 seconds traited. One minute is FAR from a short CD, that generally means you only get to use it once per fight. GW2 doesn’t have 15 minutes fights, someone goes down or runs within two minutes in most cases. The most anyone would get to use those skills is likely 3-4 times in one team fight.

Warrior and Necro share the same level of HP. As for the strongest heal, that’s debatable. Different heals have different abilities that makes them good under certain conditions.

And thats exactly why you are struggling as warrior. Youre not landing CC chains. I watched the video you uploaded last week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrfvEMGo7Vs&feature=c4-overview&list=UUemuZJXBIqyvL9_mAwDO4yw

Shows exactly that youre just not that aware yet how to play warrior at its full potential. Dont get me wrong, im not either. But i know for a fact that im doing a lot better then you are in skirmishes like that. Most CCs where used randomly, while warriors are about landing that wombocombo that 100-0s people.

What i saw for example is how you tried to get an immob + longbows f1. Problem with is that youre using your adrenaline that you could be using to land a proper hammer F1 in to hammer 5 in to hammer 4 in to bullrush + hammer 2 and 3 while he is knocked down for example.

Getting killed in cc chains like that is what people complain about. In CC chains like this : http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/3063182

The only time i am using the LB F1 is:

- when ppl are fighting on point (and i know for fact that ill hit them)
- just before berserker rage as adrenaline dump
- When i know for a fact i whont go in melee range anytime soon. Like when im shooting from a ledge or w/e.

Zanryu.3417:

but there such a thing as too offensive. What makes Warriors something to complain about is that they slot defensively. .

The best defense is a proper offense. He whont be doing any damage if he gets interupted + knocked down for those 2 extra seconds. And if you get him low during that CC chain he will play defensively himselve.

On top of that…i had plenty of moments where i could disengage and effectively avoiding my death due to bullscharge (followed by a reset + reengage). Balanced stance is nice but doesnt create distance insantly like bullscharge does.

How is that not defensive.

Skimmed the video for instances of this, only saw one. If there’s more I’ll have to find them when I properly watch it later as I’m about to begin a tournament.

I’ll also edit my post then, after I’ve read your post completely.

Look, I can tell you exactly where you’re going wrong in the video (I’ll even be 100% constructive).
Hopefully being more constructive will show you what you’re missing so that you can see where the Warrior excels too much for the effort put in.

Jax.5261:

Look, I can tell you exactly where you’re going wrong in the video (I’ll even be 100% constructive).
Hopefully being more constructive will show you what you’re missing so that you can see where the Warrior excels too much for the effort put in.

I see a really mediocre warrior in terms of timing and lining up his burst. You obviously lack a lot of exp, which isnt a horrible thing as a relatively new pvper (i saw rank 18 right?). It just means you are relatively unaware off the potential of warrior gameplay.

You cant talk something that is wrong in to something that is right. There is a reason why every single top player in this game states warrior is over the top atm.

I told you before. Warriors main strenght is that its good at pretty much everything, while having relatively few weaknesses.

Locuz.2651:

Jax.5261:

Look, I can tell you exactly where you’re going wrong in the video (I’ll even be 100% constructive).
Hopefully being more constructive will show you what you’re missing so that you can see where the Warrior excels too much for the effort put in.

I see a really mediocre warrior in terms of timing and lining up his burst. You obviously lack a lot of exp, which isnt a horrible thing as a relatively new pvper (i saw rank 18 right?). It just means you are relatively unaware off the potential of warrior gameplay.

You cant talk something that is wrong in to something that is right.

I told you before. Warriors main strenght is that its good at pretty much everything, while having relatively few weaknesses.

Hmm. Should I assume you misquoted and mean me?

I’m not saying Bull’s Charge is bad. I had a match today where I wished I had it, however I find that in most cases I prefer to have my utilities be purely defensive. The way I play is different from the way you do, but it works for me. Warrior’s seem to me like a jack of all trades class, much like the class I played on my last game. Good at everything, the best at nothing. We’re great at stuns, that’s what we excel at. However when it comes to damage, mobility, conditions, and bunkering we’re second best. We’re good, but we aren’t the best.

To be honest as long as it gets people to stop complaining I welcome the nerfs, I don’t believe the damage needs to be nerfed quite that harshly, but as long as Warriors don’t become unable to land kills then I’ll take the tradeoff.

In any case.. I’m not here to argue whether Bull’s Charge is good enough or about my rank. I like Bull’s Charge, I just don’t prefer it in most situations. As for rank, well I don’t really believe that holds a lot of importance. Sure, if you see a rank 1 you’ll know the person is new, but once you get to 10+ people can start to become competent. Perhaps it’s just me, but I don’t judge someone by their rank. I’m certainly not the best Warrior, I don’t claim to be, but I know that I do my job at least decently well and have played enough to form a valid opinion on the class.

Soulview.4532:

mini.6018:

deda.8302:

Just put 15 or 20 sec cd on burst skills and problem is solved …

and put 60 seconds on shatter,steal and pet skills.Problem solved

Or is it ?

+++++

Welcome to Ele`s world.

Even if ,after new patch goes as they say ele still cant profit as much from shorter cd cause skill are on high one and u can switch to an atunement and have all skills on cd if u dont know wht r u doing.

@mini
*memers have one shater on 12 sec cd u can trait shaters to give vigor and minor heal.
*pet skills are also on at least 14+ sec cd and not that great and aoe ones are on higher cd
thiefs steal is on 18sec cd traited and still its not a reason thiefs are hard or unkillable its stealth/evade that is a problem.

-if u make burst cd on 15 so no more cond cleansening every 7 sec with huge dmg adn that was main problem with sinergy to heal signet -3 cond every 7 sec+ aoe dmg

Also scull crakc on 15sec cd is bearable and ok.now they want to change skill animation+ increase cast time,which was hard to read only on asuras.

So yes 15sec cd on burst skills will solve almoust all problems ppl have with wr class and still have wr as competative class.

Only other class skill that needs a bit tuning down is necros,since u have 3sec stability every 7 sec….

deda.8302:

Soulview.4532:

mini.6018:

deda.8302:

Just put 15 or 20 sec cd on burst skills and problem is solved …

and put 60 seconds on shatter,steal and pet skills.Problem solved

Or is it ?

+++++

Welcome to Ele`s world.

Even if ,after new patch goes as they say ele still cant profit as much from shorter cd cause skill are on high one and u can switch to an atunement and have all skills on cd if u dont know wht r u doing.

@mini
*memers have one shater on 12 sec cd u can trait shaters to give vigor and minor heal.
*pet skills are also on at least 14+ sec cd and not that great and aoe ones are on higher cd
thiefs steal is on 18sec cd traited and still its not a reason thiefs are hard or unkillable its stealth/evade that is a problem.

-if u make burst cd on 15 so no more cond cleansening every 7 sec with huge dmg adn that was main problem with sinergy to heal signet -3 cond every 7 sec+ aoe dmg

Also scull crakc on 15sec cd is bearable and ok.now they want to change skill animation+ increase cast time,which was hard to read only on asuras.

So yes 15sec cd on burst skills will solve almoust all problems ppl have with wr class and still have wr as competative class.

Only other class skill that needs a bit tuning down is necros,since u have 3sec stability every 7 sec….

You are kidding me right ? You are comparing a 130 range MELEE skill that also requires a build up of andrenaline and spending it nerfing your dps and sustain while doing it to ranged class abilities,teleport that gives you stealth damage and steals plus activates boons,shatters that hit from range and also give bonuses and so on.

I can’t take it.These people just wow.

Lol what is so meele with combustiv shot, kill shot, and even earthshaker?
Yeah some ppl are just wow sometime,lol

Im not comparing skill vs skil u started it and i explained as much as i could my wiev on it.
If i would think that steal as a mechanic is a problem making thuieves OP then i would say so ,you obviously read parts that suit you and neglect rest of the post,pls dont troll me.

Relentliss.2170:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Relentliss.2170:

Lol everyone is a talented Warrior. Just roll forehead across keyboard.

Everyone is a talented (put class here) that loses against no talented warrior.

Thing is after only a few matches I was heaps better on my warrior than on any of my other classes. There was no opportunity cost. Unlike other classes, I could do damage and be very tanky at the same time. I could swap in cc weapons and do all 3. It didn’t seem to matter what order you used your skills at all. There was really no thinking or opportunity cost at all. Missing a skill or using it at the wrong time didn’t matter. I would call that a faceroll.

I did the same with my mesmer and i killed those warriors without many worries (of course i know how to dodge and kite hambows).
Then i picked a ranger and did the same.
In the end i reached one conclusion with this two classes.
I dont even need to actively hit the other player to defeat him. The AI does that for me.
If that is not faceroll…

Now i´m going to start playing necro.

This Silven guy too serious about helping OP. Plz, top Guard Oceanic, don’t hurt yourself helping him

silentnight warrior.2714:

Relentliss.2170:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Relentliss.2170:

Lol everyone is a talented Warrior. Just roll forehead across keyboard.

Everyone is a talented (put class here) that loses against no talented warrior.

Thing is after only a few matches I was heaps better on my warrior than on any of my other classes. There was no opportunity cost. Unlike other classes, I could do damage and be very tanky at the same time. I could swap in cc weapons and do all 3. It didn’t seem to matter what order you used your skills at all. There was really no thinking or opportunity cost at all. Missing a skill or using it at the wrong time didn’t matter. I would call that a faceroll.

I did the same with my mesmer and i killed those warriors without many worries (of course i know how to dodge and kite hambows).
Then i picked a ranger and did the same.
In the end i reached one conclusion with this two classes.
I dont even need to actively hit the other player to defeat him. The AI does that for me.
If that is not faceroll…

Now i´m going to start playing necro.

This is so true! Anet know this issue but don´t wanna help warrior in a 1 vs 1 situation. It´s a shame.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Relentliss.2170:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Relentliss.2170:

Lol everyone is a talented Warrior. Just roll forehead across keyboard.

Everyone is a talented (put class here) that loses against no talented warrior.

Thing is after only a few matches I was heaps better on my warrior than on any of my other classes. There was no opportunity cost. Unlike other classes, I could do damage and be very tanky at the same time. I could swap in cc weapons and do all 3. It didn’t seem to matter what order you used your skills at all. There was really no thinking or opportunity cost at all. Missing a skill or using it at the wrong time didn’t matter. I would call that a faceroll.

I did the same with my mesmer and i killed those warriors without many worries (of course i know how to dodge and kite hambows).
Then i picked a ranger and did the same.
In the end i reached one conclusion with this two classes.
I dont even need to actively hit the other player to defeat him. The AI does that for me.
If that is not faceroll…

Now i´m going to start playing necro.

What happens when you get hit on mesmer / thief ?
Compare it to what happens when war gets hit …
You have now figured out what mesmer and thief have to sacrifice while warrior has to sacrifice NOTHING. ( risk vs reward )
btw a war’s dps isnt that far from that of a mesmer/ thief ( just mesmer /thief have to go full glasscanon to get it while war can do it on bunkerish gear setup )

NOW imagine a team fight ….. where you cant just keep your attention on 1 character.

Void.4239:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Relentliss.2170:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Relentliss.2170:

Lol everyone is a talented Warrior. Just roll forehead across keyboard.

Everyone is a talented (put class here) that loses against no talented warrior.

Thing is after only a few matches I was heaps better on my warrior than on any of my other classes. There was no opportunity cost. Unlike other classes, I could do damage and be very tanky at the same time. I could swap in cc weapons and do all 3. It didn’t seem to matter what order you used your skills at all. There was really no thinking or opportunity cost at all. Missing a skill or using it at the wrong time didn’t matter. I would call that a faceroll.

I did the same with my mesmer and i killed those warriors without many worries (of course i know how to dodge and kite hambows).
Then i picked a ranger and did the same.
In the end i reached one conclusion with this two classes.
I dont even need to actively hit the other player to defeat him. The AI does that for me.
If that is not faceroll…

Now i´m going to start playing necro.

What happens when you get hit on mesmer / thief ?
Compare it to what happens when war gets hit …
You have now figured out what mesmer and thief have to sacrifice while warrior has to sacrifice NOTHING. ( risk vs reward )
btw a war’s dps isnt that far from that of a mesmer/ thief ( just mesmer /thief have to go full glasscanon to get it while war can do it on bunkerish gear setup )

NOW imagine a team fight ….. where you cant just keep your attention on 1 character.

…wut.

I have yet to see any Warrior do to me what a Mesmer or Thief can do to me in terms of damage.

Void.4239:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Relentliss.2170:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Relentliss.2170:

Lol everyone is a talented Warrior. Just roll forehead across keyboard.

Everyone is a talented (put class here) that loses against no talented warrior.

Thing is after only a few matches I was heaps better on my warrior than on any of my other classes. There was no opportunity cost. Unlike other classes, I could do damage and be very tanky at the same time. I could swap in cc weapons and do all 3. It didn’t seem to matter what order you used your skills at all. There was really no thinking or opportunity cost at all. Missing a skill or using it at the wrong time didn’t matter. I would call that a faceroll.

I did the same with my mesmer and i killed those warriors without many worries (of course i know how to dodge and kite hambows).
Then i picked a ranger and did the same.
In the end i reached one conclusion with this two classes.
I dont even need to actively hit the other player to defeat him. The AI does that for me.
If that is not faceroll…

Now i´m going to start playing necro.

What happens when you get hit on mesmer / thief ?
Compare it to what happens when war gets hit …
You have now figured out what mesmer and thief have to sacrifice while warrior has to sacrifice NOTHING. ( risk vs reward )
btw a war’s dps isnt that far from that of a mesmer/ thief ( just mesmer /thief have to go full glasscanon to get it while war can do it on bunkerish gear setup )

NOW imagine a team fight ….. where you cant just keep your attention on 1 character.

Warriors were actually much better even before patch while fighting on a point compared to pure 1v1.
Before patch warriors were a joke in 1v1 (yeah, gap closers… that you could dodge by STRAFING, didn’t even need to dodge).
That’s why warriors by nature have to take more hits than other classes. Not only because they don’t have protection, many evades, vigor and teleports, but also because they are melee-centric.
Other classes, like mesmers, are able to avoid more damage because of active effects, and can do that also because they have an easier time hitting their opponents than warriors (mind you, I’m talking about 1v1, no points to hold, nothing else). But active effects are much weaker in big fights. And in big fights warriors were ALMOST on par with other classes, if built tanky enough. Now it’s even stronger in group fights, for it has the sustain it needs.

My experience as an engi: killing 1v1 a warrior, or at least not dying, is actually pretty easy. Take into account you can spec to have protection while stunned and bombs to make melee combat impossible.

Then, the most important trick: warrior’s mobility is rendered useless if you strafe as much as possible. All of their gap-closers make them run in a straight line. This means they can barely touch you if you can manage to strafe and avoid hearthshaker (using shield, static shot, other blinds, and if things go grim protection will save you).

Void.4239:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Relentliss.2170:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Relentliss.2170:

Lol everyone is a talented Warrior. Just roll forehead across keyboard.

Everyone is a talented (put class here) that loses against no talented warrior.

Thing is after only a few matches I was heaps better on my warrior than on any of my other classes. There was no opportunity cost. Unlike other classes, I could do damage and be very tanky at the same time. I could swap in cc weapons and do all 3. It didn’t seem to matter what order you used your skills at all. There was really no thinking or opportunity cost at all. Missing a skill or using it at the wrong time didn’t matter. I would call that a faceroll.

I did the same with my mesmer and i killed those warriors without many worries (of course i know how to dodge and kite hambows).
Then i picked a ranger and did the same.
In the end i reached one conclusion with this two classes.
I dont even need to actively hit the other player to defeat him. The AI does that for me.
If that is not faceroll…

Now i´m going to start playing necro.

What happens when you get hit on mesmer / thief ?
Compare it to what happens when war gets hit …
You have now figured out what mesmer and thief have to sacrifice while warrior has to sacrifice NOTHING. ( risk vs reward )
btw a war’s dps isnt that far from that of a mesmer/ thief ( just mesmer /thief have to go full glasscanon to get it while war can do it on bunkerish gear setup )

NOW imagine a team fight ….. where you cant just keep your attention on 1 character.

What happens when i get hit on mesmer and thief? Usualy i port, stealth and take the ofensive.

After the fight starts mesmer and thiefs are in advantage against other classes because they have stealth/ports on demand.
When wars get hit they just stay there and take all the damage and fight, or try to run away, but they are always visible and they are always able to be hit. While the warrior have to build for sustain, the mesmers and thiefs dont have to. They can go full berserker and still they can have lots of surviability provided by their class mechanic. This is not happening on the warrior side. A full berserker warrior takes many more skill to be efective in a fight than any of those classes because of risk/reward.
Just for the record, i die less with my berserker mesmer than with my tanky warrior.

Now you imagine a 1v1 fight, where you cant just keep your attention on 1 character.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Now you imagine a 1v1 fight, where you cant just keep your attention on 1 character.

He doesn’t have to imagine anything.If he doesn’t know that by fact already than pvp it’s not his forte and this discussion it’s pointless.

Only the target being removed gimmick ALONE counts more than any of warriors defensive skills comparing how much dps you can avoid by doing it and for how long and freqvency.

Zanryu.3417:

Our burst and mobility aren’t as good as other classes that don’t rely on high HP pools to survive. See: Thief and Mesmer.

Guardians tend to be the better overall option to bunker with, and even as a condition build our performance is outshined by Engineer and Necromancer. Yes, Warriors have builds allowing them to do quite a few things, however what they can do gets outshined by other classes that can do the same thing. With Bull Charge the Warrior has to sacrifice a defensive utility for mobility, and mobility just for mobility’s sake isn’t my idea of a good build. Sure, you can get to points or escape quicker, but when it comes to the fighting you’re going to be worse off than another Warrior using defensive utilities.

I’ve played Necro and Mesmer, and I’ve gotta say they outperform Warriors in condition and burst damage respectively. My Necro was actually capable of bunkering fairly decently thanks to Death Shroud. I’m not saying I was a pro at it as I didn’t play too large of an amount of games as a Necro, but it did fairly well. I even hopped on it lately for a game or two and was landing quite a few kills from conditions spam.

I’m sorry but warrior burst is much better than a mesmer in terms of straight damage. In order for mesmers to get “good” bursts they have to sacrifice any and all defensive utilities and traits. Warriors deal ridiculous burst while being specced completely down one of their defensive lines.