Guild Wars 2

Old or new? Hip or Retro? Pick one.
http://www.strawpoll.me/12296891

just tested the pathing… i have to say i not only have to vomit from the structure changes, but the amount of non valid paths are absurd.

the whole red side wooden ledge at mid in non valid, while blue side is fine. could you actually test stuff before release?

Gotta say I hate the roof changes, and not just because I am a teeef. Overall makes the map look silly.

I still don’t understand why there isn’t a PTR (Public test realm). Have people do your work for you and make the pvp community more content in a single move. Then, since people would definitely contribute if it meant pvp would actually get balance, there shouldn’t be the go to excuse of people wouldn’t bother. They bother for raid balance, why not pvp… even if they only let upper tier players in, something would be better than nothing.

The roof changes where necessary. The camera obstructions from the broken roof caused way too many avoidable downs.

The JP change is also good, the side favoritism was real on the old ones.

The teleport obstruction on the new kyhlo needs to be standardized though.

I don’t like it personally, it feels smaller now and makes it harder to rotate because it’s so easy to see when someone tries to sneak out. The wooden ledge not being able to port/blink up to on one side while the other is fine sounds like a bug, even with that fixed the map just doesn’t feel right.

Aitadis.8269:

I don’t like it personally, it feels smaller now and makes it harder to rotate because it’s so easy to see when someone tries to sneak out.

This. Unlike most maps, Khylo requires player to basically pass through mid when heading far. If your team isn’t good at teamfights then they’re just piling bodies at home and mid.

MadVisions.4529:

just tested the pathing… i have to say i not only have to vomit from the structure changes, but the amount of non valid paths are absurd.

the whole red side wooden ledge at mid in non valid, while blue side is fine. could you actually test stuff before release?

This. I dont quite like the map, but it could easily be cause im used to the old one, gotta see how this one works. But the pathing is kittened up lmao

I waited 20 seconds today for textures to load and only then realized that there are no walls anymore too. Clocktower now looks really pathetic and “bugged”, like something broke inside of the game itself.

It’s too easy to see inside mid. Part of what made Khylo interesting to me was that you couldn’t see the fight or exactly where anyone was from outside the building unless you looked at the mini map and it wasn’t too cluttered. The jumping puzzle is far too easy now too. A well used dodge jump could be why you made the final jump, but now you don’t have to do that. The map was really just dumbed down. And it’s so easy for ranged professions to hit things now with so much more room to maneuver and kite. It was a good map for professions who didn’t do as well on more open maps like Legacy. I haven’t noticed any changes with pathing aside from the red vs blue mid ledges bug, but if there was a drop, I think it might be good because teleports are too good in PvP overall, so teleports are just too mandatory. Fewer teleport spots (making sure that they make sense) I think is good for the game. Don’t eradicate them, but reduce them a little. For example, if a spot gives teleporters a massive advantage and it would take significantly longer for another profession to get to that same spot, then make teleporting to that spot impossible.

Overall i like it.

+ the map is less thief/ports reliant
+ the mid camera angles
+ treb
- midpoint 2 small pillar, may make it too defensive. map is already slow and its hard to get comeback with points , so a fast decap on the narrow heavy to hold MID seemed balanced
- thief got hit hard, its hard to be sneaky as well as much less cover, map is skyhammer small now
- visually its a mix, i kinda wouldnt mind the treb automatically firing 1 shot each and just opening up the midpoint like it was – leave the new sidestairs tho

I like that the roof is gone and that they basically removed the jumping puzzles, as they were somewhat asymmetrical before. I just think the way they went about it was a bit “meh.”

I just wish they kept the model for the clocktower the same and had the roof destroyed. Also by having a staircase leading to mid, it’s just way too easy to move from home to mid and mid to far—essentially making this map incredibly easy to snowball on.

Old map was much better. At least it forced you to walk around mid or teleport instead of taking a ‘’jumping puzzle’’/staircase to easily pile onto mid.

Please consider returning the old clocktower in.

Old Kylo was lots of fun and visually a much more dynamic map.

But blinks were beyond OP, and Thieves, Mesmer’s and Eles were far too good because of this. With a few fixes this new map will be far better from a balance stand point.

I like old Khylo specifically for Casting Meteor Shower onto mid and using Lightning Flash to TP to top of roof to free cast through the Bell hole…

It’s probably what they wanted to stop though otherwise the camera angles not being buggy is nice..

Btw the walls on clocktower point are shoot through by treb. Love Anet <3

Julius Seizure.4985:

Old Kylo was lots of fun and visually a much more dynamic map.

But blinks were beyond OP, and Thieves, Mesmer’s and Eles were far too good because of this. With a few fixes this new map will be far better from a balance stand point.

How dare roamers have a tiny advantage, especially on small map like Khylo where non-roamers have stupidly short ways between points….

Cynz.9437:

Julius Seizure.4985:

Old Kylo was lots of fun and visually a much more dynamic map.

But blinks were beyond OP, and Thieves, Mesmer’s and Eles were far too good because of this. With a few fixes this new map will be far better from a balance stand point.

How dare roamers have a tiny advantage, especially on small map like Khylo where non-roamers have stupidly short ways between points….

So what adjectives would you use to describe the advantage blinks granted on other mapss?

According to you,

Khylo (original) : tiny
Legacy : ?
Temple : ?
Forest : ?

I mean, when it comes to original Khylo, all they did was grant unique access to the cata. Unique access to walkways. Unique access to the roof. Unique access to walls. Unique access to side points. Unique access to water pipes. Yeah…

Old Khylo, definitely.
Only thing this “improved” version has going for it, is the third gate out of the base and that’s a very minor thing. I can’t remember ever being spawncamped on Khylo after getting rank 20 some years ago lol.

Roof issue got fixed by a treb shot, which is now easier than ever before, jumping puzzles could be normalized while still retaining the value of “skill”/“knowledge” required to make them.
Now we just got a bland, boring, dumbed down version of a map that I’ll loathe playing on. Quite literally removed several layers of play and nerfed mobility classes in the process. I’m not happy, no.

This map is basically a huge advantage to ranger, dh and war now. The opening of the field of fire was a huge buff to ranged fire.

I can’t help feeling Mesmer and thief got targeted hard.

this design change was not thought through at all.

Ithilwen.1529:

This map is basically a huge advantage to ranger, dh and war now. The opening of the field of fire was a huge buff to ranged fire.

I can’t help feeling Mesmer and thief got targeted hard.

this design change was not thought through at all.

when do anet devs ever think anything through? they just all congratulate each other and hold hands and then push untested changes into live play, over and over and over and over again. its sickening tbh.

Julius Seizure.4985:

Cynz.9437:

Julius Seizure.4985:

Old Kylo was lots of fun and visually a much more dynamic map.

But blinks were beyond OP, and Thieves, Mesmer’s and Eles were far too good because of this. With a few fixes this new map will be far better from a balance stand point.

How dare roamers have a tiny advantage, especially on small map like Khylo where non-roamers have stupidly short ways between points….

So what adjectives would you use to describe the advantage blinks granted on other mapss?

According to you,

Khylo (original) : tiny
Legacy : ?
Temple : ?
Forest : ?

I mean, when it comes to original Khylo, all they did was grant unique access to the cata. Unique access to walkways. Unique access to the roof. Unique access to walls. Unique access to side points. Unique access to water pipes. Yeah…

You really don’t understand the issue, do you? Or just general difference between roamers and point holders.

This issue is that Blinks are still useful as a net speed buff, and more limited Z access mobility. They just aren’t insanely OP. Regarding ranged advantage… there is still so much projectile hate that I just have to wonder what people are doing wrong.

Julius Seizure.4985:

This issue is that Blinks are still useful as a net speed buff, and more limited Z access mobility. They just aren’t insanely OP. Regarding ranged advantage… there is still so much projectile hate that I just have to wonder what people are doing wrong.

A “net speed buff?” Blink is seldom used simply to increase speed. It’s CD is too long to waste in that way.

Even if it were, War is probably actually faster. The heavy armor, heavy dps class that can out run the light armored mobility fighter… it makes no sense. The “z” mobility offset that partially.

The larger issue is that the restrictions to field of fire have been largely removed. It makes bows very powerful.

As to projectile hate… Where? Every utility slot I have on Mesmer is needed and precious. I can’t afford to switch out to a reflect that really isn’t all that effective anyway.

That’s largely the case on thief as well. I’ll run [Smoke Screen] in dungeons but it’s been quite a while since I’ve seen it used in PvP.

Necro has… well I don’t think they have anything for dealing with missle attacks.

Rev seldom runs Ventari in PvP, so that’s out…

That leaves the three classes that have long range missle attacks. All of them just got a big buff on this map.

Ithilwen.1529:

Julius Seizure.4985:

This issue is that Blinks are still useful as a net speed buff, and more limited Z access mobility. They just aren’t insanely OP. Regarding ranged advantage… there is still so much projectile hate that I just have to wonder what people are doing wrong.

A “net speed buff?” Blink is seldom used simply to increase speed. It’s CD is too long to waste in that way.

Even if it were, War is probably actually faster. The heavy armor, heavy dps class that can out run the light armored mobility fighter… it makes no sense. The “z” mobility offset that partially.

The larger issue is that the restrictions to field of fire have been largely removed. It makes bows very powerful.

As to projectile hate… Where? Every utility slot I have on Mesmer is needed and precious. I can’t afford to switch out to a reflect that really isn’t all that effective anyway.

That’s largely the case on thief as well. I’ll run [Smoke Screen] in dungeons but it’s been quite a while since I’ve seen it used in PvP.

Necro has… well I don’t think they have anything for dealing with missle attacks.

Rev seldom runs Ventari in PvP, so that’s out…

That leaves the three classes that have long range missle attacks. All of them just got a big buff on this map.

necro has corrosive poison cloud btw

New map is just bad and ugly…. thinking they focus their money, time and effort into this instead of other things …….
I might have put as much effort, talent in my feedback as they probably did for this map. This map change was as important as me posting this post.

All the map needed was for the treb to become vulnerable to condition damage,and the camera collision with the roof at mid fixed.
Instead we got a kitten new mid point that gives all the advantage to ranged classes,and requires even less zero control of a player’s positioning in order to snipe.
Classic.

It’s funny how the fairly harmless warrior, DH and bunker druid bows are now suddenly a huge problem. In a projectile hate meta none the less. I feel like someone went to wiki, searched for “ranged projectiles”, and came up with the idea that warrior longbow is now a problem…..

Vornollo.5182:

Roof issue got fixed by a treb shot,

The broken roof causes more camera issues than the unbroken roof. The issue was always the rafters, and breaking the roof left the center rafters + bits of raggled debris. than play havoc with the camera.

Crinn.7864:

Vornollo.5182:

Roof issue got fixed by a treb shot,

The broken roof causes more camera issues than the unbroken roof. The issue was always the rafters, and breaking the roof left the center rafters + bits of raggled debris. than play havoc with the camera.

I have never had any camera issues on the mid point, even when using the torches/sconces to kite on… To be fair, I can also not remember ever seeing anyone make any sort of remark about camera issues on Khylo’s mid point.
It’s simply one of those things that you deal with, I reckon. Maybe it’s due to a difference in camera setting (collision etc.), but that’s up to the player to fix and should not ever warrant a ridiculous dumbing down of a map accompanied by indirect nerfs to mobility classes/buffs to (ranged) bunker players.
That said. They could’ve removed a lot of the roof while maintaining the (litteral) extra layer of gameplay and increasing visibility.

This is just lazy design.

The biggest joke is that after 4 years they still didn’t bother to address no valid path bugs around/on nodes (e.g. in Foefire) but roof deemed to be broken and needing attention /tableflip

Cynz.9437:

The biggest joke is that after 4 years they still didn’t bother to address no valid path bugs around/on nodes (e.g. in Foefire) but roof deemed to be broken and needing attention /tableflip

You do realize that they intentionally put NVP points around nodes on every map, as kiting options? It’s not a bug.
Why do you think they put in those NVP pillboxes around Coliseum’s mid point? It’s standard design.

Vornollo.5182:

I have never had any camera issues on the mid point, even when using the torches/sconces to kite on… To be fair, I can also not remember ever seeing anyone make any sort of remark about camera issues on Khylo’s mid point.

I’ve been killed a dozen times over by the roof. The most recent being the day before the patch where the camera clipped through a rafter when I was trying to 1v1 a warrior. I was shieldbash combo’ed before I could fix the camera.

It’s simply one of those things that you deal with, I reckon. Maybe it’s due to a difference in camera setting (collision etc.), but that’s up to the player to fix and should not ever warrant a ridiculous dumbing down of a map accompanied by indirect nerfs to mobility classes/buffs to (ranged) bunker players.

It’s completely unreasonable design to have a functionality that works consistently in every part of the game, but then make it unreliable in one specific section of one specific map.

@Crinn.7864: i highly doubt that pile of crap on mine node in Foefire for example was intended. You can get easily pushed/feared/pulled into it and can’t use stun break due to the bug. There is not a single good reason why THIS supposedly, by your words, feature should prevent character from using stun break.