What the quaggan happened to PvP?
Get HoT or go home basically. Devs overtuned all HoT specs so any casual can drool on keyboartd while game plays for them thus enforcing sales. If you want to play core you gotta be 10 times better than enemy. Same reason why everyone plays same build.
As far as symbol DHs goes – just don’t bother unless you got good on rev or druid. They are new turret engis.
All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>
[Teef] guild :>
(edited by Cynz.9437)
The current meta is a DPS+DefensiveSkills meta. With Tons of CC.
A lot of classes can burst you down in seconds and still be able to survive for a lot, similar to bunkers.
DH are the most annoying why can spam traps and pull/knockback you, inflicting a insane amount of damage without any problem. But also revenants, druids (pet), warriors, thieves and some dps mesmers can burst you down really quickly if you’re not skilled enough to know how they work and fight to be able to counter them.
For shure a custom build will have a lot of problems in this meta, unless you’re really good and able to make it work still if it’s not the best one.
In this meta you need to focus on your defensive skills and only when you’ve enough defence chose your offensive skills/traits.
A good mix of damage and survavibility can work, but you need to practice to be good enough to kill a “meta” build (still if there’s some custom or non-meta builds that work at the same level of the meta ones, or sometimes even better).
For the first time, go on the build sites and try one of the “meta” builds. After some matches, when you feel more confident on what you’re enemy is playing and how to kill him, try to change a little that build or play a custom build.
But for the first time you have to chose the powerful build you can find.
Also, a lot depend on your calss and playstyle.
If you’re a necro you’ll find that there’s not a really viable build for solo queue, only some good builds that can work and make you have fun if the enemy team don’t chose to insta-focus-burst you every time you put a feet on the mid (the necro is good only in organized team fights, in this meta). More or less the same if you play ele. For the other classes there’s different roles you can play bur for shure some classes are easier to play than others (DH, Revenant, Druid for example).
Start with a meta build and then try to make your own.
I’ve seen so far, I dont recognize this game.
No wonder. Game is out of control since a ~year or so.
Devs got zero ideas how theyr random ideas influence pvp and they got zero intent on changing, finetuning new features, nor do they care about it.
Class balance team (i strongly doubt there truly is one) and PvP dev team is separated by the grand canyon filled by acid and swimming gozillas.
Nice description, haha. The answer to your question is that HoT happened.
Not only are the HoT specs/abilities/etc OP, they tie a specific weapon and class upgrades to the extra class skill-line HoT added. That means out of the three skill-lines we can use, we have to use the HoT skill-line for one, effectively cutting build diversity by one third. That is compounded by having a weapon also tied to the skill-line, meaning players will mainly use the HoT weapon as well (since it usually has synergistic traits in the HoT skill-line), resulting in even less build diversity.
For example in HoT guard virtues get a major upgrade with awesome active abilities that are better than most utilities/skills. But you can’t use the upgraded virtues unless you take the Dragon Hunter skill line. A similar thing is true for other classes.
Btw the DH you mentioned was most annoying? That has actually been nerfed a couple of times! Here is a great video showing how much skill it takes to play spvp with a HoT build:
Btw the DH you mentioned was most annoying? That has actually been nerfed a couple of times! Here is a great video showing how much skill it takes to play spvp with a HoT build:
I mentioned DH because I can’t really figure out yet how to try and counter them. They deal decent ranged damage and going in to melee ends up with a trap disaster. Also cant be bursted due to all the immunity skills they tend to pop. It kind of feels like dueling a good mesmer in the old meta. But mesmer was a dueling one trick pony. My issue as of now is that I find a guy guarding a node and I can’t really figure out what the kitten am I facing. Is it a bunker? A zerker? A dueler? Because it kind of feels like it is all at the same time. I am not used to such state of the meta hence my questions. Thanks for some useful info which already came above.
(edited by Awe.1096)
The powercreep is real. To oversimplify it a bit, basically everything is now very capable of good sustain and good damage. AOE everywhere, CC everywhere. Condis out the kitten .
Head over to Metabattle and read up on all the “meta” and “great” builds. That’s at least 90% of what you’ll see in the QQ.
Nice description, haha. The answer to your question is that HoT happened.
Not only are the HoT specs/abilities/etc OP, they tie a specific weapon and class upgrades to the extra class skill-line HoT added. That means out of the three skill-lines we can use, we have to use the HoT skill-line for one, effectively cutting build diversity by one third. That is compounded by having a weapon also tied to the skill-line, meaning players will mainly use the HoT weapon as well (since it usually has synergistic traits in the HoT skill-line), resulting in even less build diversity.
For example in HoT guard virtues get a major upgrade with awesome active abilities that are better than most utilities/skills. But you can’t use the upgraded virtues unless you take the Dragon Hunter skill line. A similar thing is true for other classes.
Btw the DH you mentioned was most annoying? That has actually been nerfed a couple of times! Here is a great video showing how much skill it takes to play spvp with a HoT build:
if i made videos i would show how builds like this doesnt work anymore. if i played any class against decent players and popped all my defensive offensive and healing abilities at once on any class i would lose 10/10 times.
im bad at sarcasm
Yeah OP, you’re right and it is a shame.
The “meta” builds are high at the top of the food chain and any other build is a long way down below that such that it is a huge handicap to deviate from the norm.
Build diversity is very low at the moment.
Build diversity is very low at the moment.
?
Guardian: full trapper, medi trapper, marauder symbolic, mender symbolic.
Mesmer: power shatter, condi mes
Thf: d/d condi evade spammer, d/p power thf
War: condi war , power rifle, power gs
Rev: power shiro (invocation variant, retribution variant), condi mallyx
Engi: power scrapper, condi bomb engi
(edited by Kuya.6495)
Build diversity is very low at the moment.
?
Guardian: full trapper, medi trapper, marauder symbolic, mender symbolic.
Mesmer: power shatter, condi mes
Thf: d/d condi evade spammer, d/p power thf
War: condi war , power rifle, power gs
Rev: power shiro, condi mallyx
Engi: marauder scrapper, condi bomb engi
Also Signet Necro, and Corruptionmancer
NSPride <3
Build diversity is very low at the moment.
?
Guardian: full trapper, medi trapper, marauder symbolic, mender symbolic.
Mesmer: power shatter, condi mes
Thf: d/d condi evade spammer, d/p power thf
War: condi war , power rifle, power gs
Rev: power shiro (invocation variant, retribution variant), condi mallyx
Engi: power scrapper, condi bomb engi
Speaking from mesmer perspective – there is only one playstyle – the most effective power/condi/hybrid is pure mindless shatter spam that uses chrono and shield in some way.
Deviate from that and you’ll be handicapping yourself. There are no intricacies or different playstyles – even things like interrupt or signet are merely “flavour” while the core of any build revolves around bombing with illusions.
But that’s the usual thing that elite specs have done and I find it a little boring.
Build diversity is very low at the moment.
?
Guardian: full trapper, medi trapper, marauder symbolic, mender symbolic.
Mesmer: power shatter, condi mes, Hybrid viper
Thf: d/d condi evade spammer, d/p power thf,
War: condi war , power rifle, power gs, boon duration builds (4m of resistance if you haven’t tried it)
Rev: power shiro, condi mallyx
Engi: marauder scrapper, condi bomb engi
Also Signet Reaper, and Corruptionmancer and terrormancer/dummfire and the hybrid sage death magic build and also Minion Mancers
chucked some more builds in there.
Elementalist: Sage burn power build, Menders, Marauders.
Druid: Any build with smokescale and bristleback.
I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.
….. And Elementalist.
Build diversity is very low at the moment.
?
Guardian: full trapper, medi trapper, marauder symbolic, mender symbolic.
Mesmer: power shatter, condi mes
Thf: d/d condi evade spammer, d/p power thf
War: condi war , power rifle, power gs
Rev: power shiro (invocation variant, retribution variant), condi mallyx
Engi: power scrapper, condi bomb engi
Speaking from mesmer perspective – there is only one playstyle – the most effective power/condi/hybrid is pure mindless shatter spam that uses chrono and shield in some way.
Deviate from that and you’ll be handicapping yourself. There are no intricacies or different playstyles – even things like interrupt or signet are merely “flavour” while the core of any build revolves around bombing with illusions.
But that’s the usual thing that elite specs have done and I find it a little boring.
You only handicap yourself until you learn the new play styles associated with the build. As with anything, practice makes you better.
I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.
….. And Elementalist.
Interrupt mesmer build only works in very niche occasions due to how much pulsing stability most HoT specs have and innate blocks/evades that most HoT skills have. So yeah you shine for 10s in a fight and other times you stand off point waiting for opponent’s stability to wear off.
Power shatter still works given enough practice (and outplay tbh given how predictable it can become), but there’re really very little reasons to bring interrupt mesmer despite its usefulness pre-HoT. I said this as a player that loves interrupt build and played it for more than a year. And no I’m not talking about lockdown build where you hit mantra to daze/stun without reading opponent movements just to set up bursts. I’m talking about the actual “interrupt” interrupt build.
Probably the best player I encountered all season was a classic Power Shatter mes, I believe with zerk amulet. He played sides and just obliterated everyone he faced, even went in for 1v2s with success.
Some old builds still work, you just have to use them properly, know the meta builds, and outplay your enemy. So basically the same as always, except the old builds aren’t as forgiving when you screw up.
All you have to do is look at alot of the utility skills. Like alot of ele shouts are 20 sec, 30 sec and 40 sec. They apply protection, vigor and a aura to everyone in radius. WIth a rune it removes a condi for everyone. Then you look at the old cantrip build, without the trait cool down its 40 sec, 50 sec and 75 sec.
Look at the warrior as well, stances changed so they can easily be countered by boon steal classes. The new rage skills have a cool down 10 sec and 12 sec for a break out of stun and gain adrenaline. The other skill applys a ranged bleed/block and stability for a few seconds. You then look at bulls rush and stomp and go what are these for? A break stun and knock enemy back on a 40 sec cool down when this other one does it in 10.
Alot of HOT is straight crap, the one that annoys me the most is the ranger-druid combo. Druid gets celestial form, its a huge mechanic of the druid class. It forces you to basically play staff to get celestial form. Ive played full condi trap ranger and i next to never get the bar up to use celestial form.
Its why balance in the game is so bad and why amulets all look the same.
GW2 best PvP was right before the D/D ele meta. Like you said in the original post, if you had the skills you could play any build. Now its 80% the build you play and 19% the team comp you have. 1% has to be skill and im yes im making up numbers but it certainly feels this way.
For me, pvp was far more enjoyable from late 2012 until June 2015 (when they did that huge update that nerfed warriors and thieves in preparation for HoT’s revenant)
I’m more than happy to go against the mess turret engies and d/d eles were over the crap we have now.
Build diversity is very low at the moment.
?
Guardian: full trapper, medi trapper, marauder symbolic, mender symbolic.
Mesmer: power shatter, condi mes
Thf: d/d condi evade spammer, d/p power thf
War: condi war , power rifle, power gs
Rev: power shiro (invocation variant, retribution variant), condi mallyx
Engi: power scrapper, condi bomb engi
Speaking from mesmer perspective – there is only one playstyle – the most effective power/condi/hybrid is pure mindless shatter spam that uses chrono and shield in some way.
Deviate from that and you’ll be handicapping yourself. There are no intricacies or different playstyles – even things like interrupt or signet are merely “flavour” while the core of any build revolves around bombing with illusions.
But that’s the usual thing that elite specs have done and I find it a little boring.
You only handicap yourself until you learn the new play styles associated with the build. As with anything, practice makes you better.
But that’s the point – the playstyles for mesmer have all homogenised into the same thing.
I should have been more accurate with my statement:
- trait/skill variety (and thus build) is good.
- playstyle variety is awful because every build plays similarly.
I know it’s the class mechanic and baseline IP was welcome, but I’m bored of every build (core and elite) revolving around shattering. Sure phantasm builds used to be cheesy but at least they were sufficiently different in playstyle.
I hope the next elite spec deletes and replaces F1-F4 for totally different skills (I dunno, “Mirage” control skills or something) to change it up.
The problem is true. HoT power creep and low build diversity.
But balace between classes is OK. It seems Anet did decide to bring down each class to one viable build(role) per elite.
The DH is anoying but counterable. A classic killer is rifle warrior (berserker due to fast burst rate). Use strength signet and blow the DH off feet if he goes in block mode to recover.. I kill them using ele. Had a match yesterday. Three DH and a druid on oposing team. I smiled, my teammates wrote in chat ele will carry us … i swaped in an extra reflect and sent the DH´s in a flaming hell with my non meta scepter/focus earth/fire/tempest …. We won this.
Interrupt mesmer build only works in very niche occasions due to how much pulsing stability most HoT specs have and innate blocks/evades that most HoT skills have. So yeah you shine for 10s in a fight and other times you stand off point waiting for opponent’s stability to wear off.
Power shatter still works given enough practice (and outplay tbh given how predictable it can become), but there’re really very little reasons to bring interrupt mesmer despite its usefulness pre-HoT. I said this as a player that loves interrupt build and played it for more than a year. And no I’m not talking about lockdown build where you hit mantra to daze/stun without reading opponent movements just to set up bursts. I’m talking about the actual “interrupt” interrupt build.
Agreed.
Personally I’d happily trade our ability for burst damage for more complex control mechanics (denial, control, debuff, etc).