Guild Wars 2

GW1 pvp was massively more successful than gw2 pvp currently is. It was an actual esport and had a pretty big community. You can find pvp finals videos on youtube with 300k views. I don’t know what the twitch stream numbers were like.

The All-Stars tournament was a massive fail, it barely had over 1k viewers. This was also supposed to be a big international tournament as well but felt about as big as a gathering of friends in my moms basement. It had a little over 1k viewers. EU vs NA GvG’s had 1500 viewers, plus the people in the OS. The dungeon running tournament had what like 5k viewers?

There is a quote from one of the devs saying something like “we plan to make gw2’s pvp the most popular out of any MMO.” Those are huge ambitions and coming from gw1, I can see those hopes not being to unrealistic.

Can someone explain to me what went wrong and if there is any hope for gw2 to ever have a big esports presence amongst the gaming community?

Because the dev team is too stubborn to see what’s in front of them.

Very sad since the control/gameplay is sooo kitten good

It’s not one thing, it’s a lot of things. ANet seems to be addressing some items, hopefully as more features are announced they continue to address more.

The games been out for two years and I feel like for the NA/EU region the esports time has past. Because the pvp community has grown so small. How are they going to get people back into the game to make a big community again? A lot of pvp focused people left at launch because of the cesspool that sPvP was at the time. Was completely underdeveloped and the devs admitted that.

E-sports is currently a bad objective. Ever since a adult website successively managed to sponsor a team, the grunge has now gotten in the door and it’s only going to go down from here. Adult sites sponsoring teams and helping fund prize money…yeah, future looks grim for all e-sports.

Whats disappointing to me is that 1 year ago exactly the devs had a livestream about test modes for pvp and we still haven’t had any yet. I don’t know how many people work on the spvp team but I don’t think its very many, otherwise it wouldn’t take this long.

You just have to look at their past history. Right after launch players demanded a pvp blog post and it took them almost 6 months to release it this was just the start of things to come. This feature pack better include a new game mode or expect a lot of raging from players I don’t want to imagine what will happen. Why so many conquest maps? Why not make 2 big ones instead, something similar to AB from wow then continue development on a new game mode but no they are wasting resources and time on new maps of the same game mode . Already one map fallen to garbage due to fail water combat and now skyhammer.

How about try somethings new more than the current wannabe e-sporst pvp with cheap faceroll meta build ?

I think we should wait for after this week to decide whether GW2 PvP is going down the right track. Feature packs being what they are.

Anet should reintroduce battlegrouds like Fort Aspenwood and The Jade Quarry and new ones.
sPvp 5v5 is bad,often too unbalanced,more player like 10v10 or 15v15 would be better

SkylightMoon.1980:

The games been out for two years and I feel like for the NA/EU region the esports time has past. Because the pvp community has grown so small. How are they going to get people back into the game to make a big community again?

they can´t

most in this games pvp is designed to kitten people and arenanet dont care about.
“fun” has no priority in their design

i talk about:
Hotjoin is all about kittening new players – they get farmed /stomped all day in outnumbered fights (experienced hotjoin heros go all same side and farm newbies)

SoloQ they do everything to kitten people in hope they will join teamQ cause they dont have Players for teamQ – with things like skyhammer/spiritwatch in rotation or only half pointz for same work as teamQ

TeamQ – 5 man premades farm most time randoms (solo players, duo or trtiple teams) and call this competive

ye – arenanet dont care bout fun … atleast it looks like and they dont know anything about or how to design a game for people to have fun

so no – there will be no new people – only some triehards to stubborn to udnerstand even after 2 years what a fail gw2 pvp is and it will never get the work it needs …..

2 years ….. and nothing ….. stilll looks/feels like a kitten beta

Imo there’s 1 major reason: Not enough pvpers ingame.

Reasons for that are

• Only 1 gamemode > People like Arena, CTF, …
• Very team dependent, 1 afker/dcer ruins the whole game > bigger teams or different objectives would help
• No way to teach pvp ingame unless you rent a server > dueling would be a great way to teach people
• Broken hotjoin & Long queues for Solo &Team Q, don’t make pvp attractive.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot.
In my mind, the biggest misstep in the development of sPvP was to only have 1 game mode. (The most common description of GW2’s PvP that I see on other forums always seem to be that it gets dull, repetitive or boring quickly. Although it does gets praise as well)

If we had about 2 more game mode which fits in nicely with our current one, sPvP would probably enjoy a huge improvement. It’s reasonable to say that new game modes should collaborate with Conquest and offer what that mode doesn’t, in order to create a diverse and enjoyable PvP environment for everyone, which is something that I think is crucial.

Phadde.7362:

I’ve been thinking about this a lot.
In my mind, the biggest misstep in the development of sPvP was to only have 1 game mode. (The most common description of GW2’s PvP that I see on other forums always seem to be that it gets dull, repetitive or boring quickly. Although it does gets praise as well)

If we had about 2 more game mode which fits in nicely with our current one, sPvP would probably enjoy a huge improvement. It’s reasonable to say that new game modes should collaborate with Conquest and offer what that mode doesn’t, in order to create a diverse and enjoyable PvP environment for everyone, which is something that I think is crucial.

I was looking back at gw1 pvp and realized it how much bigger it was after 2 years compared to gw2.

Romek.4201:

SkylightMoon.1980:

The games been out for two years and I feel like for the NA/EU region the esports time has past. Because the pvp community has grown so small. How are they going to get people back into the game to make a big community again?

they can´t

most in this games pvp is designed to kitten people and arenanet dont care about.
“fun” has no priority in their design

i talk about:
Hotjoin is all about kittening new players – they get farmed /stomped all day in outnumbered fights (experienced hotjoin heros go all same side and farm newbies)

SoloQ they do everything to kitten people in hope they will join teamQ cause they dont have Players for teamQ – with things like skyhammer/spiritwatch in rotation or only half pointz for same work as teamQ

TeamQ – 5 man premades farm most time randoms (solo players, duo or trtiple teams) and call this competive

..

2 years ….. and nothing ….. stilll looks/feels like a kitten beta

Cant agree anymore!

At OP, it’s missing the ‘it’ that was there in GW.

Being an optimistic person, the devs know they messed up any terms to try to talk to the remaining community, they are riding on the China hype and future promises of game modes they can’t talk about. (As a side note; if you want to keep any type of community we need transparency back, we are getting a feature pvp patch for sept. there is almost 0 point to hide what you’re going to release rather than stalling for time because we’re going to get ****ted on as always, pvp takes a back seat) ty based god anet.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Vee Wee has a few theories! In terms of esportz, nobody wants to play conquest! Conquest is not esportz! Arenas are esportz! It’s a shame Anet spent 2 years balancing the game for conquest! Guaranteed the next game mode that comes out will not be so great because of balance! We’ll have to wait a long time before it will be playable! Mark Vee Wee’s words!

Anet is too slow to balance! 1 patch every half year! That’s just thuper insane in the membrane! Anet wants to make everything perfect! Well newflash frands! You can’t balance perfectly! It can only be good! And everything good can then be made better! And then you keep making it better! Biweekly! Even monthly! Hell at this point Vee Wee will even take a patch every 2 months! But twice per year! Bad! So bad! So very bad! Warriors have been op now for over a year! Why do we have to wait over a year for things to change!

No pause feature! A few weeks ago Vee Wee was watching a tournament on Blu’s stream! Someone on the blue team disconnected! The casters told someone on the red team to afk in spawn! That was the saddest most ghettoest thing Vee Wee has ever seen in a video game! Especially one that tries so hard to be esportz!

Camera angles! I have no idea what’s going on when watching a stream! In game camera angles are just as bad! Why isn’t there any 1st person camera like there is in Guild Warts 1!

That’s just for esportz! There are other problems plaguing general PvP! Skyhammer, lack of team communication, etcetcetc. Vee Wee made a thread about it already and does not want to type everything out again!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

The problem is that the only good thing about PvP is the combat system (and the instant access to any build configuration). Some serious issues includes:

• Animation from some races (Asuran) tricky to see, which leads to unfair advantages. Yeah, will be fixed in September, but for me seems a thing which takes you 2 days to solve, NOT TWO YEARS.

• Transparency over structures (covering your view) working inconsistently, sometimes blinding you. Also, the cursor dissapears when you press righ mouse to rotate the view, and makes harder to land some area effects. The overall visibility of the game -to both playeras and spectators- isn’t too good.

• The matchmaking system doesn’t work. Oftenly pairs low level random players against conformed pro teams. Oftenly starts matches with 4 vs 5, which is unnaceptable. The game would have ranked leagues (bronze, silver gold…) to better pair players, but the lack of PvP players makes this impossible.

• There’s only a single game mode, based on control points, which favoures bunker builds. There’s not duel arenas, guild halls or so. There’s not season ladders or significative rewardings along the path for competitive, devoted players and teams.

• The support for the sPvP was along this two years, severely lacking (at best). Most of time is no-existent. If a problem, unbalance or some glitch/exploit emerges it takes months to be fixed (if affects only PvP or WvW).

• They waste such mazing potential… Take the PvP, create a larger map with “ancients” and “towers”, makE your own DotA game based on the excellent combat system from GW2 and the open the PvP part of the game in f2p to reach critical mass: monetize the cost with tons of cosmetic stuff and voila… a huge success.

Sadly the game has the basic tools to be a great multiplayer game, but the developer lacks the vision or the faith in that part and did chose to entirely focused their work in the PvE part. That’s what happened: ArenaNet lacking faith in his own product.

Because the moment the higher ups noticed there was more people in pve thats where it was decided the resources would be allocated. Trust me, if the devs had the resources (probably in terms of money and manpower) we would have better pvp. Sadly, thats how a bussiness works. I truly believe the pvp devs care about the game and wanted to give you all they promised and are sad by the outcome.

Tldr: 90% of the gw2 population is pve, so 99% of the dev time is going there

Biggest esports I am aware of are MOBA and RTS, both involve a ramp up time, and knowing what your opponents can do.

When I look at GW2, I can’t see what my opponents’ build, so that’s lacking counter play. There is no way to make adjustments during game to fit needs ( like building different units, or buying different items to fit the need)

It’s real time skirmish like counter strike, but it’s random like… random.

It’s only fun to watch when the spotlight is on one character so you clearly see the skills in involved, but on a larger scale it just looks like a mess to average viewers, not entertaining.

The problem at start was the lack of things to do. Conquest got boring after 2 months.

The problem in the last 20 months was that most of the (2?) PvP developers’ time was dedicated to things that ended up useless or unexploited.
- We got a leaderboard that is off-game and hard to check, and has no reward linked to it
- We got a spectator mode that lets you look … hotjoins
- We got two new maps that players do not want to see in competitions, and one that can not be played outside private arenas (Temple is great though, good job on that)
- We got custom arenas that are only used for those quite discrete offline tournaments, duels and funzies
- We got solo queue,

Things have changed with the PvP reward track that for the first time brought something to play for. We’re still missing :
- IG tournaments
- IG promotion of the competition : replays, rewards, leaderboard, announcements …
- IG rewards for this competition : monthly rewards for the leaderboard & tournaments
- Fun PvP game modes
- Many, many convenience functions : pause game (see Starcraft), disconnect protection (see Starcraft), build import/export/save (see GW1), cancel the game if not 5v5 at start, …

Susulemon.3204:

When I look at GW2, I can’t see what my opponents’ build, so that’s lacking counter play. There is no way to make adjustments during game to fit needs ( like building different units, or buying different items to fit the need)

It’s real time skirmish like counter strike, but it’s random like… random.

In GW1 GvG you couldn’t see your opponents’ build either. And yet it is (stille now!) one the best PvP gameplay ever conceived.

There are only two forms of pvp; spvp and WvW and they use two different rulesets,level mechanics, and equipment sets upon release. That already separated members of pvp.

MMO pvp communities are quick to jump when it comes to balance as well given a general desire for variety.

Tons of class bugs went unfixed, culling issues at the start, frankly both Spvp and WvW felt underdeveloped and Spvp would never be a game mode with mass appeal given its adoption rate in other pvp games.

I decided to lurk today and check out GW2, seems everyones still complaining?
Why I kicked in the bucket? Spvp had already begun feeling stale in what 2013 and by march the slow pace of balance quite frankly left the game in a cycle of “if you liked this you can’t really play it” between different classes to the point of the condition mess in January. At that point it was simple “do I even like spvp enough to stand through very slow balancing?” Nope. Good to see one year later though the talks of “another game mode” never actually came down. Not that one could of expected differently, the writing was on the wall. I didn’t care about esports the pvp of the game just well seemed to do everything it could post-release to not accommodate even a casual playerbase within an appropriate time.

My theory: Hubris

Some kid(s) who wanted to prove they were smart and creative and could make a good game all on their own without input from others.

And so they didn’t do what GW1 had proven worked, because that wouldn’t prove they were uniquely genius.

And they didn’t listen to their community, at all.

And they weren’t actually all that intelligent… so…

The game turned out a steaming pile of puppy.

I do have to say to that fully grown kid, sitting somewhere in anet, sad: Cheerup. One of the greatest minds humanity has ever known, Sir Isaac Newton – once made the commen that, if he saw farther than others – it was only because he sat upon the shoulders of giants. The greatest accomplishments arise because of harnest team effort. Your flaw was not that you weren’t smart enough to envision the perfect game on your own, your flaw was that you didn’t accept the truth of that limitation and work around it – outside of yourself – outside of your own ego.

…

So you ruined our game.

Oh also areananet was just plain lying and never spent that much money on PvP. As evidenced by the absence of (at launch)

Pause
Spectator Mode
Ladders or Match Making
Seperation of Premade vs Auto Group teams
Etc…

Galandil.9641:

In GW1 GvG you couldn’t see your opponents’ build either. And yet it is (stille now!) one the best PvP gameplay ever conceived.

You couldn’t see it, but it was generally very easy to figure out. Much easier than GW2. Furthermore, every skill in GW1 had a consistent effect (which scaled with attribute points… but that kind of doesn’t matter because there existed a narrow range of useful breakpoints, etc.), which isn’t the case in GW2 due to how traits work.

In GW1, figuring our your opponent’s build during a match was very important, as unless you did so you wouldn’t know how to properly play against them. In GW2, figuring out your opponent’s build to the same level of understanding matters much less; the gameplay is much less thoughtful.

Nemiros.3590:

Because the moment the higher ups noticed there was more people in pve thats where it was decided the resources would be allocated. Trust me, if the devs had the resources (probably in terms of money and manpower) we would have better pvp. Sadly, thats how a bussiness works. I truly believe the pvp devs care about the game and wanted to give you all they promised and are sad by the outcome.

Tldr: 90% of the gw2 population is pve, so 99% of the dev time is going there

And yet the PvE in this game is severely lacking too imo.

What this game needs is an expansion: New race, new weapons, new zones, new dungeons, new pvp modes and a merger for the lowest tier wvw servers.

• Because when it launched it was still in alpha, and now it is in beta (this is what it feels like at least)….
  *It take forever to implement the simplest things.
• Matches still start 4v5!
• Not nearly as much balance patches as they need to put out (once every six months won’t do).
• Leaderboards need a rework.
• Bad matchmaking.
• Too few PvP players left in the game.

A good example of how an MMO should launch is Wildstar. Hey launched with more features than this game have now, two years since launch…

1. Balance – This is the biggest issue. It takes the balance team forever to make changes (seriously, what do they do all day that is takes 5-6 months to release balance updates). eSports have much more frequent changes. The issue with GW2 is that oftentimes something is broken and people get frustrated some stop playing PvP. The balance team is the weak point here.
2. Game modes – Conquest is fun to play, but boring to watch. They need a new game mode and put the focus on that.

SkylightMoon.1980:

GW1 pvp was massively more successful than gw2 pvp currently is. It was an actual esport and had a pretty big community. You can find pvp finals videos on youtube with 300k views. I don’t know what the twitch stream numbers were like.

The All-Stars tournament was a massive fail, it barely had over 1k viewers. This was also supposed to be a big international tournament as well but felt about as big as a gathering of friends in my moms basement. It had a little over 1k viewers. EU vs NA GvG’s had 1500 viewers, plus the people in the OS. The dungeon running tournament had what like 5k viewers?

There is a quote from one of the devs saying something like “we plan to make gw2’s pvp the most popular out of any MMO.” Those are huge ambitions and coming from gw1, I can see those hopes not being to unrealistic.

Can someone explain to me what went wrong and if there is any hope for gw2 to ever have a big esports presence amongst the gaming community?

(A) Guild Wars 1 is over a decade old now, no wonder it’s tournament videos have half a million hits after years of the player base buying new PCs, moving locations and having different IPs when they log in to Youtube to stack total views of these videos
The number of views just adds up over the years
GW2 videos will be no different in time

(B) Twitch is new and not many use it yet
Everyone including my mom, your mom and everyone’s grandma, uses Youtube
You’re also comparing Twitch live hits to Youtube all time views “over years”

© We live in the era of the First Person Shooter
This draws the bulk majority of younger gamers away from MMORPGs
When we were young, it was the era of the MMORPG
And that is why GW1 had a larger pvp community
That same community that grew up with MMORPGs is still present
But they are older now and don’t have nearly as time to log in as they used to
GW2 in comparison to other “current” MMORPGs, is clearly the leader in it’s genre
In fact, all other games try to copy GW2’s engine as of late

(D) Nothing is wrong with GW2’s pvp engine
And comparing it to GW1’s engine is like comparing your adulthood to your childhood
Because that’s exactly what you’re doing
Let go of the nostalgia and stop taking for granted what newer games have to offer

It’s important to mention that since there has only ever been Conquest type game modes in PvP. The past 2 years of skill/profession balancing has been from a conquest view point, meaning there will be some seriouse issues when the new game mode(s) is implemented.

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Vee Wee has a few theories! In terms of esportz, nobody wants to play conquest! Conquest is not esportz! Arenas are esportz! It’s a shame Anet spent 2 years balancing the game for conquest! Guaranteed the next game mode that comes out will not be so great because of balance! We’ll have to wait a long time before it will be playable! Mark Vee Wee’s words!

Anet is too slow to balance! 1 patch every half year! That’s just thuper insane in the membrane! Anet wants to make everything perfect! Well newflash frands! You can’t balance perfectly! It can only be good! And everything good can then be made better! And then you keep making it better! Biweekly! Even monthly! Hell at this point Vee Wee will even take a patch every 2 months! But twice per year! Bad! So bad! So very bad! Warriors have been op now for over a year! Why do we have to wait over a year for things to change!

No pause feature! A few weeks ago Vee Wee was watching a tournament on Blu’s stream! Someone on the blue team disconnected! The casters told someone on the red team to afk in spawn! That was the saddest most ghettoest thing Vee Wee has ever seen in a video game! Especially one that tries so hard to be esportz!

Camera angles! I have no idea what’s going on when watching a stream! In game camera angles are just as bad! Why isn’t there any 1st person camera like there is in Guild Warts 1!

That’s just for esportz! There are other problems plaguing general PvP! Skyhammer, lack of team communication, etcetcetc. Vee Wee made a thread about it already and does not want to type everything out again!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

You know what, Vee Wee? I used to dislike you. I saw your posts and the pasts and thought you were an obnoxious doosh.

… But you’ve slowly been winning me over, and this post just stole my heart. <3

+1000 to VeeWee

I’d just like to add that GW2 “GvG” is actually really fun. It’s the best Pvp that guild wars 2 has at the moment, crappy GWEN meta et all.

A 15v15v15 king of the hill annihilation format with new teams constantly entering to replace eliminated teams, would be my idea of a perfect format.

Too many problems left for too long.

I miss JQ…. That was about the only thing I played in gw1 pvp. Didn’t really explore the other modes, but pretty sure I would have appreciated the variety.

Another thing that was good about gw1

It wasn’t about stats at all.
All you had where inscriptions, runes, skills, and dual professions to worry about. I used my water elementalist in JQ and would eat peoples faces…

Water hexes were da bomb!!

So, I think the heavy focus on melee and short range attacks is a big part of why GW2 isn’t nearly as fun to watch kitten many other games.

Conquest pretty much encourages people to use builds that are all about either piling on top of a single point to keep it contested and/or to just blast it with as much AoE as possible. Both of these things tend to make the whole fight look like a giant mess of spell effects and swinging arms that doesn’t give much to tactical analysis. I gotta give big props to the people who shoutcast GW2 games since they are so often a giant clusterkitten.

Compare this to GW1: Players were much more spread out in many games and this meant that it was not only easier to see what spells/abilities players were using, but also to see the overall tactics being employed.

I think if GW2 could adjust PvP to make ranged builds more viable, we could see a very positive change in overall dynamics both for gameplay as well as for viewers. Sadly, this would probably take a whole new gameplay mode before we could see any kind of shift like this.

I think a huge problem is advertisement. Let’s say I don’t look at the “News Feed” thing when I log in and I don’t get on the forums which HAS GOT TO BE the majority of the player base and I just hear things from my guildies. They aren’t interested in PvP and therefore, I don’t hear about it. I don’t know what ToL or that it has been going on, I didn’t even know there was an All-Star tourney.

But… I do get on the forums, and I do hear about this stuff from my friends. Still, I don’t know when ToL is happening or when people are playing, I had NO IDEA when All-Star matches were going on or where to watch them afterwards. Would love some in game panel that could at least link me to the vods in some tab. I would love if they announced in big yellow letters across my screen that X is playing X for the semi finals or whatever. I’ve heard that’s not the most elegant solution, so at least make a tab somewhere where it can be found. Seriously, we had to live for 6 months with “SCARLET’S MINIONS ARE ATTACKING X” even during our matches….. and we can’t advertise for PvP.

That’s the problem. Well, one of them.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

(A) Guild Wars 1 is over a decade old now, no wonder it’s tournament videos have half a million hits after years of the player base buying new PCs, moving locations and having different IPs when they log in to Youtube to stack total views of these videos
The number of views just adds up over the years
GW2 videos will be no different in time

(B) Twitch is new and not many use it yet
Everyone including my mom, your mom and everyone’s grandma, uses Youtube
You’re also comparing Twitch live hits to Youtube all time views “over years”

© We live in the era of the First Person Shooter
This draws the bulk majority of younger gamers away from MMORPGs
When we were young, it was the era of the MMORPG
And that is why GW1 had a larger pvp community
That same community that grew up with MMORPGs is still present
But they are older now and don’t have nearly as time to log in as they used to
GW2 in comparison to other “current” MMORPGs, is clearly the leader in it’s genre
In fact, all other games try to copy GW2’s engine as of late

(D) Nothing is wrong with GW2’s pvp engine
And comparing it to GW1’s engine is like comparing your adulthood to your childhood
Because that’s exactly what you’re doing
Let go of the nostalgia and stop taking for granted what newer games have to offer

A) still has more viewers unless there is a 300 views per viewer on average, and id like to see WHEN it got those views, I guess a lot of them were in the first month.
I guess it wont get that many views over the time.
Just to mention in GW1 u could watch the matches as well without youtube.

B)
Afaik a lot of ppl watch things on twitch, of course youtube has much more viewers,
but concerning esport matches … wont make a difference in the future i guess , cause didnt google buy twitch or sth?

C)
I doubt it. CS 1.6 was 1999.
maybe rather the age of MOBA .
And proof for everyone trying to copy it, name the games.

D)
the opposite around GW1 in a esport sence was more mature than GW2 is.
GW in that case is something like …. benjamin button

I know that one really can try hard to defend something one thought to be really great.
I did it too a long time, maybe its some kind of self defence.
I brought around 5 ppl to play GW2 when it was released, they all said uhh no not GW1 you cant jump there.
So I told em hey come GW2 and sent them the vids the developers published.
They came, they leveled to 80, they said it was the nicest leveling they ever had in any MMO and that was it, they reached lvl 80, they left one month after launch.
Why? Cause there was no end game content for any REAL mmo player.
I played 2 months, then made a 6 months break.
After I came back a got into the guild i am now, and this guild is atm the only last string that ties me to this game.
I do play pvp but only hot joins atm, cause pvp is a fast way to get your dailies, pvp certainly does not tie me to this game atm.
I am for over a year now at the point were I just point out my frustration instead of trying to defend what is not to be defended.

generally GW2 combat is not fun to watch, cause there are so many shiny sparkling skill effects, that everything exceeding 1v1 is really hard to analyze.

But I think its too late now, cause a lot of ppl that would have brought potential to the pvp scene already left.
In order for the PvP to have been top notch, the preparations should have been made pre release or at least in the first 2 months.

@Arr Dee
thought he was a moron at first as well (though might not be that far away from it still) and some kind of troll.

but reading his comments I more and more came to like his way to think.
Now strangely enough Im always imagining a engineer in a Wooldoor Sockbat-ish kind of way, with his text being read with wooldoors voice in my head lol^^.

At least his comments cast a smile on my face again everytime i think about what could be better .

You want the cold hard truth?

HARDCOUNTERS. there is no creativity in gw2.

If you go full blown zerker spec any random condition spammer will beat you if you dont have the appropriate anti conditions.

On the other side if you have full slotbar of anti conditions condi spammers cant do anything versus you.

Its rock papper scissors in PvP. There is no skill in there.

You want a competetive game you better start balancing and make all the hardcounters SOFT counters. So everyone has an equall shot regardless of build or character.

ErazorZ.5209:

You want the cold hard truth?

HARDCOUNTERS. there is no creativity in gw2.

If you go full blown zerker spec any random condition spammer will beat you if you dont have the appropriate anti conditions.

On the other side if you have full slotbar of anti conditions condi spammers cant do anything versus you.

Its rock papper scissors in PvP. There is no skill in there.

You want a competetive game you better start balancing and make all the hardcounters SOFT counters. So everyone has an equall shot regardless of build or character.

Lack of useful traits / utility skills arent helping much. Thats what made gw1 so great, there were so many options to the point where most of the time it was 50/50.

Clip.6845:

And yet the PvE in this game is severely lacking too imo.

What this game needs is an expansion: New race, new weapons, new zones, new dungeons, new pvp modes and a merger for the lowest tier wvw servers.

Ya the problem is… who would buy something new developed by this studio?

The environmental architecs, musicians, programmers… all get my praise. Whomever was responsible for making gameplay fun, be it PvP or PvE straight up ruined this game.

“Anet should reintroduce battlegrouds like Fort Aspenwood and The Jade Quarry and new ones.
sPvp 5v5 is bad,often too unbalanced,more player like 10v10 or 15v15 would be better”

Just take alook at Rift pvp and you will know why this wont work ,ever ,just one perma zerg it is, and worse i hade there matches starting with 7 vs10 anding in 5 vs 12 and stuff like that.
If they are not able to fix games starting 4 vs 5, how do you think they will deal with lets say 8vs10???
It may be interesting to see 10vs10 but defenetly not in Sque and defenetly not with hold the point ,yeah i would go nuts watching 8 bunkers fightng over 1 nood,lol
If you watch latest turnaments you will c that mid almost never gets caped due 2 this bunker game mode we are in for 2 years…
Hm i can gues oponnets build most of the time after first encounter….

I don’t agree that anything over 5 players would be a better “e-sports” solution. It’s a busy game to look at now with just 5. Another issue with it, is that the more people you add the less it is about the individual coordination and more about staying in tight blobs where the “1” key is more influential in the fight.

I wouldn’t mind a game mode that would support that size team, kind of like wow BGs so that guilds could have a game mode that better fits the size of most guilds. Definitely not an e-sport though.

The games entire balance is kittening trashcan anyways. You can make it 8v8 and put a flag there to run, but the reality is

1) No healers or fun support structure
2) Conditions/Hexes and their removal is no longer a decision making process but rather a spam one
3) Over abundance of gap closers make decisions about positioning meaningless.

A) Because there’s no good support, and positioning is fairly trivial, there’s really no such thing as ‘over extending.
B) Because A, there’s really no such thing as diving

Alpha) Because 1,2,3,A,B the more players you have the more effective it is to just train a single enemy until they disengage or down.

Rally) Because Rally, the best defense is actually to just train an enemy and get the stomp.

The bigger you get the game the more true this sequence of events becomes true.

Fundamentally, GW2 was designed to be kittenty and not fun with significantly large team sizes.

It’s best as a 2v2 or 3v3, which is the game size we see most actual combat taking place at in Conquest.

…

It sounds like I’m supporting the Devs decision to exclusively support Conquest, but actually I’m saying they made a kittenty unfun game and they should probably start over from square one and fix it.

They made it casual friendly.

/thread

a t s e.9614:

Its probably because of conquest. Nobody wants to watch tiny asurans running in circles and dropping AoE on point.

If your game isint fun to watch then it will never be an esport.

I think the problem is more likely that soloQ and teamQ are too different. In one mode, it’s usually about hambows, engineers or fear chain necros. It’s way more balanced in the other mode..

You can’t use what you’ve learned and watched then, since you will rarely face similar team compositions.

The problem?

• Balance
• Stupid and reta*ded maps.
• Build > Skill > Look of your hero
• Racial Skills, what are these even used for? o.O
• Each class uses 5-6 skills, rest is junk nobody ever used.
• Some skills are unable to be casted while in move, like warr’s 100b or Thief’s 3rd on Sword.
• What does PvP even mean? It should be renamed to CvC (Class vs Clas so you can compare what class is more OP for what).

That would be GW2 PvP in nutshell.

I really wish I could talk nice about GW2’s PvP, but I am realist. Sorry ANET.

What’s wrong ?
All what they said up + 1 thing
go pvp panel, look game browser, search “farm” …
They bashed the only specific reward from pvp aka emote/rank … Imo they can do update 1 more thing before remove pvp from gw² : buy rank from gems .
Will be faster and less hypocrite

Three problems.

1. Tools missing.
One of veewee’s posts lately said that the game still doesn’t have a pause feature. It still doesn’t have that. It’s kinda sucky. ESPAWTS umpires need tools, and arenas need those tools to sometimes happen automatically.

2. Infrequent balance.
Big blobs of balance changes every 6 months is not good enough. A high tempo of shaves fortnightly or monthly keeps the meta from getting stale.

3. Infrequent expansions.
The game has not had a team queue suitable map added since 2012. Twenty. Kittening. Twelve.
Since release, there has been the addition of one healing skill and five traits for each class. Otherwise, only one ability has been added, which is Tainted Shackles. In the meantime, compare it to Big Fatty WoW; a game with an incredibly slow patch cycle is now working up to releasing a new expac.