Guild Wars 2

It’s pretty broken and that fact is obvious because it’s the default amulet of most meta builds. It’s just so prevalent.
Guardians, mesmers, necromancers, rangers, thieves all use it as part of their meta build.
Heck, even warriors and elementalists have very strong builds that use it.

Will it ever be toned down to be more in line with celestial? I mean celestial is only usable on warrior, engineer, elementalist and perhaps rangers. That’s 3/8 compared to 5/8.

Maybe buff celestial so the other classes can benefit from it.

I know this is satire, but it brings up an interesting point how most defensive stats are completely useless in PvP. A sign of poor game balance or just a phase of the metagame? I think active defenses need to be nerfed a bit.

robertul.3679:

It’s pretty broken and that fact is obvious because it’s the default amulet of most meta builds. It’s just so prevalent.
Guardians, mesmers, necromancers, rangers, thieves all use it as part of their meta build.
Heck, even warriors and elementalists have very strong builds that use it.

Will it ever be toned down to be more in line with celestial? I mean celestial is only usable on warrior, engineer, elementalist and perhaps rangers. That’s 3/8 compared to 5/8.

Maybe buff celestial so the other classes can benefit from it.

If one amulet gets nerfed, another will become the meta. Every time.

I think your idea itself is broken and therefore should be fixed.

How would buffing Cele end up making everyone can use instead of making Engi, Ele and warrior became unstoppable?

You think everyone can use Berserker then how is this broken? Because everyone is broken?

robertul.3679:

It’s pretty broken and that fact is obvious because it’s the default amulet of most meta builds. It’s just so prevalent.
Guardians, mesmers, necromancers, rangers, thieves all use it as part of their meta build.
Heck, even warriors and elementalists have very strong builds that use it.

Will it ever be toned down to be more in line with celestial? I mean celestial is only usable on warrior, engineer, elementalist and perhaps rangers. That’s 3/8 compared to 5/8.

Maybe buff celestial so the other classes can benefit from it.

Well played son, well played.

I actually don’t know if you’re trolling or not or if you’re really that oblivious….

If anything is wrong with builds that use zerker-amu, it’s what sm1 else has already written: active CD’s, or IMHO, internal stat-advantages a class has and the way the allocate their trait-points. For example a guardian can still have 2,5k armor while going zerker.

The biggest thing though is, that the really defensive builds all got toned down, while DPS got way higher in GW2, thats why no build will ever hold against 2 DPS. This means; a defensive Build pretty much has to only sustain against 1 opponent, the rest can go into DPS – so the really defensive amulets simply won’t be used anymore in 95% of the cases.

srsly though – zerker amu is perfectly fine. It’s more about balancing specific skills/traits, but even that isn’t truly necessary IMHO.

Celestial is fair and balanced okay. Weakest ammy. Wtb buffed offensive stats/.???1131!!111!

Czerny.6530:

I know this is satire, but it brings up an interesting point how most defensive stats are completely useless in PvP. A sign of poor game balance or just a phase of the metagame? I think active defenses need to be nerfed a bit.

Defensive stats aren’t completely useless. Yes, active defenses are better, but it doesn’t make defensive stats irrelevant. The problem with defensive stats in PvP is that you can’t get them in healthy amounts outside of celestial amulet. For example, no one needs 900 additional toughness. But having 200-400 wouldn’t be bad. The amulet system in PvP is a significant problem.

You do make a good point that everyone just goes dps nowadays b/c defenses are limited to just invulns and blocks, and even then only sparingly because of all the free damage flying around.

Reduce the free-procs, especially air/fire, but spinal shivers, guardian hammer proc, etc. Of course, classes like necro and guard that rely on thes procs should be compensated in some ways, but make it require active skill usage as opposed to auto-procs that can’t be dodged. There was a time when large bursts had some tell, but nowadays bursts come from instants or instant/unavoidable procs. Winning the proc war isn’t the most skillful thing.

gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8

not sure if op is troll or braindead….

that’s hard trolling. Cele is not strong enough hoho.

Most bers builds require 3 times more effort for succes then common cele

message below mine is not totally correct.

MEdi guard and Ranger though – 2 all around easy specs to master.

What can ekittenist say about the topic actually?

You agree?) Bers too strong?)

I would say both bers and cele are fine atm, it’s more about classes and other amulets.

Hvaran.6327:

that’s hard trolling. Cele is not strong enough hoho.

Most bers builds require 3 times more effort for succes then common cele

Not even close. If anything, cele ele has a higher skillcap than medi guard, ranger and power necro, and arguably higher than mesmer and thief. Cele Engi maybe not as difficult as mesmer/thief, but medi guard, ranger, and power necro are literally 2 of the easiest specs in the game. IDK about shoutbow though, my experience with that build is limited (its boring AF lol).

robertul.3679:

Maybe buff celestial so the other classes can benefit from it.

…lol….

Berserker players are able to dish out tons of damage in small time frame (which can be dodged). After that, most berserker meta classes are paper. Thieves die off on 2-3 well placed crits. They can’t keep a capture point contested until their teammates arrive (while celestial builds are perfectly capable at doing that, and then some). Outside the huge meditation burst medi guardians die off in few blows. Same as warriors. Which might last a little longer if they put on a shield, but outside of that, its the Celestial warrior that is currently the warrior meta. Even though being super boring build to play.

As one forum member stated awhile ago, by using a berserker amulet you live by the sword and you die by the sword.

Hell, berserkers can’t jump into AoE cleave whereas most celestial builds have no issues with that.

The amulet is pretty well balanced.
Are you kitten because a panic strike thief killed you 10/10? xD
If that’s the case … Its not the amulet…

Popularity doesn’t mean it’s OP.
Performance gains compared to other amulets is what determines imbalances.
Everyone does well with zerkers so technically it’s a balanced amulet.
Not everyone does well with Cele so that aspect isn’t balanced. But that’s not the Amulets fault. Classes clearly don’t use 100% of their stats efficiently… it’s a trait imbalance/stat/boon issue.

Saiyan.1704:

Popularity doesn’t mean it’s OP.
Performance gains compared to other amulets is what determines imbalances.
Everyone does well with zerkers so technically it’s a balanced amulet.
Not everyone does well with Cele so that aspect isn’t balanced. But that’s not the Amulets fault. Classes clearly don’t use 100% of their stats efficiently… it’s a trait imbalance/stat/boon issue.

What do you mean not everyone does well with Cele? Not every class has viable Cele-builds?

Well, even if thats the case (and it only barely is), cele is still the most run amu in competetive play: A team of 5 almost always runs 3 or more Celestial Amu’s. The rest is mostly Zerker, maybe a very small percentage of Carrion/Rabid.

But those Amus are kinda the most interesting ones to play with and play against. Tanky Amu’s (that aren’t used not because the Amu is bad, but because tanky builds got nerfed and DPS buffed) often just meant: Your team NEEDS to send a certain specific 2-man team there to be able to burst him down, which meant you needed 2 very dps-heavy classes and against certain tank-builds you couldn’t do much without boon-removal and/or heavy condition-dmg, so the meta got really stale.

The current Meta is kinda stale, not because it needs to be that way, but because ppl are comfortable playing their stuff. We see tons of viable builds at the top-level that can work (Fresh-Air, Terror-Nec, S/D-Thief, GS-Warrior are all builds I saw in teams that won ESL-matches, but that are still very rare) – But ppl prefer playing the same old stuff.

The only thing where I think heavily defensive Amu’s could be useful and not cripple the meta, would be if they’d buffed supportive qualities of certain builds, instead of simple self-sustain. They could simply add an ally-only heal-bonus (so not on the caster of the spell itself) on certain skills that scaled well with healing power:

Ele:
water trident, cleansing wave, cone of cold, geyser….

Guardian:
empower, orb of light, faithful strike….

etc.

That way I could see some other Amulets coming into play without them totally messing up the game. I can still hear the cries about full tank clerics-amu Ele and the necessity for each and every team to run a fulltank-guardian…. I don’t think that’s how it should be. Then I’d rather have the same 2-3 Amu’s, but more different builds that are more interesting to play.

Yes when thieves gank me at 30% hp with panic strike it’s pure skill and it all comes from mastering the power of the amulet.
Medi guard dies in a few blows. They only got focus block, aegis, stability, blinds, heal block, invulnerability elite that also heals them.. Really paper build.
Troll harder.

vampirism rune , pack rune, air/fire sigil, unviable condi builds cause shoutbow.

Especially air and fire sigil are the reason why you see zerker everywhere.

You tell me which is the broken amulet from the build pools:

• Berserkers : All.
  Advantages: Burst damage.
  Disadvantages: Low Survivability.

• Rabid/Carrion: Necro, Ranger, Engi (and the odd mesmer).
  Advantages: Condi DPS pressure.
  Disadvantages: Low Survivability.

• Cleric: Ele, Guard
  Advantages: Support/Sustain.
  Disadvantages: Low damage.

• Sentinel/Soldier: War, Engi
  Advantages: Crowd control.
  Disadvantages: Weak to Conditions.

• Celestial: Ele, War, Engi, Ranger.
  Advantages: Support/Sustain/DPS.
  Disadvantages: uumm….fingers get tired from key spam?

Blackjack.5621:

vampirism rune , pack rune, air/fire sigil, unviable condi builds cause shoutbow.

Especially air and fire sigil are the reason why you see zerker everywhere.

I take it you meant “because” of shoutbow, right?

Yes, I don’t like the mindless AoE-condi-removal either, it’s pretty dumb tbh. I still think that builds like Terror-Necro are perfectly viable in the current meta and stuff like a condi-ranger is IMHO just bad in terms of DPS, even if the team doesn’t run mass-condi-removal.

I think both the appliance of boons and the appliance of conditions and the removal thereof (of the condis, not the boons) is just pretty dumb: just AoE-spamming and AoE-removal.

They did it really well with the boon-removal on the Terror-Necro for example: You really have to w8 and scan through the team to convert stabi into fear or to w8 after a big CD (like Armor of Earth) was fired or a mightstack combo went through to really be effective – it’s really fun to play and it requires skill.

condition-removal worked in the same way as that in GW1 – you had almost exclusively single-target condition-removal (but that removed a ton of condis and healed for every condi removed)

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Restore_Condition

that was often like 50% of the condi-removal of the whole 8-man team. Because of the limitations of your mana-pool, the monk really had to decide whether to remove condis offensively (remove blind, cripple etc. from DD’s) or defensively (removal of conditions that do DMG), there was always a very deliberate choice, you had to know if you need to cleanse the warriors to spike sth down, or if the backline is OOM and needs the health/condi-removal more.

I really think we need some on-ally-targeted support-spells or things will just stay as spammy as they are. You know, just make a shout targeted and boost the effectiveness a bit – I don’t see the problem. it doesn’t mean the game will have the holy trinity, it simply means you can support ppl focused, instead of everything being AoE boons and AoE-cleanse.

Most boons were applied in a similar manner: very deliberate at the right timings on the right target (which helped immensely and the boonremoval had to be there right away to bring the target down)

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guardian
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Protective_Spirit

Amulets are fine. What the game needs is more counter play and skill rewards. That means the removal of builds that completely counter other builds by design without requiring any skill, such as shoutbow, builds which dominate in their MMR bracket through the use of AI such as turret engineer, less instant-cast skills that deal significant damage (or the damage of such skills toned down significantly) such as overcharged shot, elementalist lightning strike on attunement swap, smite condition etc. the removal of traits that deal a strong effect on-hit meaning "cannot be dodged" such as chill of death and panic strike, and finally the removal of or significantly rebalance of fire and air sigils.

Well as a simple fix they could lower the damage output of zerker and compensate with somthing like 300 more vitality.

Oh wait…

robertul.3679:

It’s pretty broken and that fact is obvious:

• because it’s the default amulet of most meta builds. It’s just so prevalent.

Wrong. That doesn’t mean it’s broken. It’s just effective.

If people want to give up all their defense for stupid big damage, let them. People run carrion and soldier and other amulets too.

The broken amulet is Celestial. It turns most battles into ones of attrition, which is essentially a game winner on modes where you just have to exist on a point to win.

Plus they already nerfed it.

robertul.3679:

Yes when thieves gank me at 30% hp with panic strike it’s pure skill and it all comes from mastering the power of the amulet.
Medi guard dies in a few blows. They only got focus block, aegis, stability, blinds, heal block, invulnerability elite that also heals them.. Really paper build.
Troll harder.

Hahaha xD bhurt from thieves

If you don’t destroy the focus block, you are going to have a bad time, so in a way you really should be dishing out damage to a blocking guard. The focus block explosion hurts.

You don’t have to CC a berserker to finish them off. They die just as well with stability on xD

Aegis is 1 shot thing, which goes away even if they have focus shield/shelter/elite so it really IS 1-2 hit thing xD

All in all, you need to learn to play. I mean sure, if you are a thief, you’re probably going to have a hard time against mediguard. However you need to acknowledge the fact that mediguard’s sole purpose is to counter other berserkers. It completely flops vs any other semi-bunker build.

Cry harder

robertul.3679:

Medi guard dies in a few blows. They only got focus block, aegis, stability, blinds, heal block, invulnerability elite that also heals them.. Really paper build.

10/10

Well when the game allows support even on zerk builds (see dps guard) then there is no reason to not use it. A team playing zerker builds perfectly wins over anything else. In most games you can’t have damage spike, condition removal, teamsupport, blocks, teleport and heals on the same build (looking at you dps guard!)

Quadox.7834:

In most games you can’t have damage spike, condition removal, teamsupport, blocks, teleport and heals on the same build (looking at you dps guard!)

I’ve found in many mmorpgs, after several balance patches, the “tank” archetype class somehow always end up with more damage while maintaining their innate defenses/support. It’s weird yet common occurrence.

Wait what?

Beserker amulet is broken?
Thats news to me!
I use it on my power ranger. And sure he can hit like a truck, but he pretty much is dead if someone looks at him funny. Thats why I tend to play back line “artillary” with him. Deal damage from afar and hope someone doesn’t get too close to sneeze on me.

Its a trade off. Use beserker amulet and trait for damage, but have the sustainability of wet toilet paper. If I want something more tanky, I use cleric amulet with my warrior, with banner regen and dwayna runes. Its fun (But thats a whole different topic)

main problem with zerk specs in conquest had always been the same…zerk must roam and always have a bunker on point to tank while in celestial comps you can leave pretty much anyone on point (ele, war or engi) and they can bunker it and take over when someone gets low…if you’re 3v3 with let’s say thief mesmer and cele dd, ele is forced to always fight on point without kiting…while if you are like cele dd, shoutbow and thief, war and ele can come over each other when low and sustain way more than 2 zerk 1 cele… (Let alone massive healing, boon spam and condi cleanse output from ele+shout) …ofc 2 zerks can end it way faster with some good spikes but most tf usually end up with sustain (stomp/rally…where bunkers are usually better too, except for shatter mesmer that is probably the best spec for cleaving on downed) wars…and the longer teamfights last the stronger celestial comps are…also messing up a rotation with zerk comp is probably gonna end in the other team snowballing while a 4 bunker team can usually still hold for quite some time even when outnumbered without giving away too many pnts

Ravenmoon.5318:

robertul.3679:

Yes when thieves gank me at 30% hp with panic strike it’s pure skill and it all comes from mastering the power of the amulet.
Medi guard dies in a few blows. They only got focus block, aegis, stability, blinds, heal block, invulnerability elite that also heals them.. Really paper build.
Troll harder.

Hahaha xD bhurt from thieves

If you don’t destroy the focus block, you are going to have a bad time, so in a way you really should be dishing out damage to a blocking guard. The focus block explosion hurts.

You don’t have to CC a berserker to finish them off. They die just as well with stability on xD

Aegis is 1 shot thing, which goes away even if they have focus shield/shelter/elite so it really IS 1-2 hit thing xD

All in all, you need to learn to play. I mean sure, if you are a thief, you’re probably going to have a hard time against mediguard. However you need to acknowledge the fact that mediguard’s sole purpose is to counter other berserkers. It completely flops vs any other semi-bunker build.

Cry harder

You post is basically a mash of and “cri harder”. It makes you seem dumb. You probably are.

*Golf Clap , says the cele ele/rifle lol

Akikaze.1307:

• Celestial: Ele, War, Engi, Ranger.
  Advantages: Support/Sustain/DPS.
  Disadvantages: uumm….fingers get tired from key spam?

LOL on the key spamming. This is exactly why D/D Ele is my least liked build. It’s so repetitive and tedious that’s it’s hands down the most boring build in game to me.

Elitist.8701:

Hvaran.6327:

that’s hard trolling. Cele is not strong enough hoho.

Most bers builds require 3 times more effort for succes then common cele

Not even close. If anything, cele ele has a higher skillcap than medi guard, ranger and power necro, and arguably higher than mesmer and thief. Cele Engi maybe not as difficult as mesmer/thief, but medi guard, ranger, and power necro are literally 2 of the easiest specs in the game. IDK about shoutbow though, my experience with that build is limited (its boring AF lol).

So cele ele, shoutbow warr, and cele engi, all way easier to play than mesmer…. O.o Totally dude.

I’m scared. I think the OP might be serious. I thought he was just joking around when he said to buff cele.

jportell.2197:

Elitist.8701:

Hvaran.6327:

that’s hard trolling. Cele is not strong enough hoho.

Most bers builds require 3 times more effort for succes then common cele

Not even close. If anything, cele ele has a higher skillcap than medi guard, ranger and power necro, and arguably higher than mesmer and thief. Cele Engi maybe not as difficult as mesmer/thief, but medi guard, ranger, and power necro are literally 2 of the easiest specs in the game. IDK about shoutbow though, my experience with that build is limited (its boring AF lol).

So cele ele, shoutbow warr, and cele engi, all way easier to play than mesmer…. O.o Totally dude.

celestial ele higher skill cap than mesmer

made my day

robertul.3679:

Maybe buff celestial so the other classes can benefit from it.

Not sure if serious or ….

Czerny.6530:

I know this is satire, but it brings up an interesting point how most defensive stats are completely useless in PvP. A sign of poor game balance or just a phase of the metagame? I think active defenses need to be nerfed a bit.

I tend to agree here, but the problem is that will accentuate zerker meta MORE, simply because toughness and vitality don’t do ENOUGH.