Guild Wars 2

I’m pretty sure every class’ current meta build puts up a very good fight against Thieve’s current meta build.

Am I wrong?

Nothing. It’s the hardest class in the game right now on top of engi.

It was disheartening to see engie go from high skill cap rewarding and useful to high skill cap replaceable and underwhelming. But I still play it.

I failed at playing thief that’s why I admire the good ones.I don’t think theyre in a good spot atm and could use some buffs along w/ engie

Tempest and DH.

BlackTruth.6813:

Nothing. It’s the hardest class in the game right now on top of engi.

Engi is NOT in a bad place, you have just to find the right build. i was saying the same thing like you after the last big patch but now some engi found very great builds.

- Thieves are best at decap
- Necromancers are best at going into downstate
- Eles are best at sustain, support, bruising and life

See ? Everyone has a specialty !

As always, when playing a thief the easiest 1v1 is against a warrior, its the only prof which I go for with confidence

Right now I feel that thief only has favorable matchups against other zerkers, except for ones on a similar or greater level (mesmers) or ones with lots of condi/pressure/cleave (guard, medi or burn). I mean thieves are the primary reason things like fresh air ele and zerker well necro are bad in serious play.

They are still very good at being the +1 in fights and using their absurd mobility to escape and decap. Honesty I don’t think Thief was supposed to be a 1v1 class, they’re supposed to pick out the weak target and destroy them then get out.

Also, you can still win many 1v1s by camping stealth and slowly wear down their defenses. I’ve also seen good thieves running S/D and S/P to great effect. D/P still feels spammy and is just flat out boring to both play and fight.

Thieves have pushed out so many builds that the only builds left are those that the thieves can handle easily. They created their own problem.

BurrTheKing.8571:

They are still very good at being the +1 in fights and using their absurd mobility to escape and decap. Honesty I don’t think Thief was supposed to be a 1v1 class, they’re supposed to pick out the weak target and destroy them then get out.

Also, you can still win many 1v1s by camping stealth and slowly wear down their defenses. I’ve also seen good thieves running S/D and S/P to great effect. D/P still feels spammy and is just flat out boring to both play and fight.

D/P remains the best build for thief in Conquest.
Sad but true, ArenaNet is pigeonholding thief in D/P after nerfing/changing acrobatics line.

Not really sure if you would call it a counter, but the warrior/thief 1v1 matchup is highly in favor of the thief in my opinion. Thing is though is that in the time it takes a thief to go through all of a warrior’s invulns + rampage you’d have wasted too much time for it to be worth it or a warrior could get a friend by then.

Midi.8359:

Not really sure if you would call it a counter, but the warrior/thief 1v1 matchup is highly in favor of the thief in my opinion. Thing is though is that in the time it takes a thief to go through all of a warrior’s invulns + rampage you’d have wasted too much time for it to be worth it or a warrior could get a friend by then.

If we’re talking about Conquest, a thief should never engage anyone in 1v1 but thieves and mesmers.

DaShi.1368:

Thieves have pushed out so many builds that the only builds left are those that the thieves can handle easily. They created their own problem.

1. conquest favors bruiers
2. thief players totally created this game, rrrrright!

Conquest isn’t a 1v1 arena and most of the roles don’t revolve around dueling so this isn’t the right way to look at it.

Yes, thief isn’t really good at 1v1s right now but it must have something it’s bad at if you give it great party utility, mobility and teamfight potential along with a 1.2k range interrupt that goes through stability on ~20sec CD just to mention a few things. Otherwise you end up getting another DD ele.

witcher.3197:

Conquest isn’t a 1v1 arena and most of the roles don’t revolve around dueling so this isn’t the right way to look at it.

Yes, thief isn’t really good at 1v1s right now but it must have something it’s bad at if you give it great party utility, mobility and teamfight potential along with a 1.2k range interrupt that goes through stability on ~20sec CD just to mention a few things. Otherwise you end up getting another DD ele.

yeah good thing that everyone else counters thieves and somehow that logic applies only to thieves but no other class (sup mesmers)…

hey let’t go pvp, player vs player combat, except your role is to avoid combat 90% of the time~

There is no easy mode for thief, every class can just obliterate them. Thing is… IF thief dont want to fight there is almost NO way for him to die. Shadowsteps Invis using hs to move forward faster/run allows him to instill fear in enemies. I often go far show myself resteath/show myself restealth(shadow refuge) and run away. This way enemy will think ur nearby and wont leave point. I often get 2/3 ppl staying on POINT waiting for me when im easy decaping other point. Thief is rly bad for 1v1 nowadays, any player that played thief for like 1 month will be able to solo thiefs on other classes in 1v1. But still there is no better class with constant movement insane rezzing(shadowarts ress trait) and can outplay anyone.

Cynz.9437:

witcher.3197:

Conquest isn’t a 1v1 arena and most of the roles don’t revolve around dueling so this isn’t the right way to look at it.

Yes, thief isn’t really good at 1v1s right now but it must have something it’s bad at if you give it great party utility, mobility and teamfight potential along with a 1.2k range interrupt that goes through stability on ~20sec CD just to mention a few things. Otherwise you end up getting another DD ele.

yeah good thing that everyone else counters thieves and somehow that logic applies only to thieves but no other class (sup mesmers)…

hey let’t go pvp, player vs player combat, except your role is to avoid combat 90% of the time~

Never said to avoid combat. Just don’t 1v1, which isn’t that hard in a 5v5 with secondary objectives.

Mefiq.7039:

There is no easy mode for thief, every class can just obliterate them. Thing is… IF thief dont want to fight there is almost NO way for him to die. Shadowsteps Invis using hs to move forward faster/run allows him to instill fear in enemies. I often go far show myself resteath/show myself restealth(shadow refuge) and run away. This way enemy will think ur nearby and wont leave point. I often get 2/3 ppl staying on POINT waiting for me when im easy decaping other point. Thief is rly bad for 1v1 nowadays, any player that played thief for like 1 month will be able to solo thiefs on other classes in 1v1. But still there is no better class with constant movement insane rezzing(shadowarts ress trait) and can outplay anyone.

+1

witcher.3197:

Cynz.9437:

witcher.3197:

Conquest isn’t a 1v1 arena and most of the roles don’t revolve around dueling so this isn’t the right way to look at it.

Yes, thief isn’t really good at 1v1s right now but it must have something it’s bad at if you give it great party utility, mobility and teamfight potential along with a 1.2k range interrupt that goes through stability on ~20sec CD just to mention a few things. Otherwise you end up getting another DD ele.

yeah good thing that everyone else counters thieves and somehow that logic applies only to thieves but no other class (sup mesmers)…

hey let’t go pvp, player vs player combat, except your role is to avoid combat 90% of the time~

Never said to avoid combat. Just don’t 1v1, which isn’t that hard in a 5v5 with secondary objectives.

Honestly you should avoid 1v1s as a rule because even if you win that 1v1 it’s rarely over fast enough for it to make a difference. Because of that I still see Thieves as being good because being able to turn a 1v1 into a 2v1 is how you win games. No class is as good as Thief at getting from fight to fight quickly.

Also yes just making players THINK you’re around is enough to occupy 2 enemy players for a few vital seconds.

BurrTheKing.8571:

They are still very good at being the +1 in fights and using their absurd mobility to escape and decap. Honesty I don’t think Thief was supposed to be a 1v1 class, they’re supposed to pick out the weak target and destroy them then get out.

Also, you can still win many 1v1s by camping stealth and slowly wear down their defenses. I’ve also seen good thieves running S/D and S/P to great effect. D/P still feels spammy and is just flat out boring to both play and fight.

Personally I feel its more spammy the S/D build than the D/P build :/

witcher.3197:

Cynz.9437:

witcher.3197:

Conquest isn’t a 1v1 arena and most of the roles don’t revolve around dueling so this isn’t the right way to look at it.

Yes, thief isn’t really good at 1v1s right now but it must have something it’s bad at if you give it great party utility, mobility and teamfight potential along with a 1.2k range interrupt that goes through stability on ~20sec CD just to mention a few things. Otherwise you end up getting another DD ele.

yeah good thing that everyone else counters thieves and somehow that logic applies only to thieves but no other class (sup mesmers)…

hey let’t go pvp, player vs player combat, except your role is to avoid combat 90% of the time~

Never said to avoid combat. Just don’t 1v1, which isn’t that hard in a 5v5 with secondary objectives.

but thieves aren’t great in team fights, if anything they get downed really fast if enemy team is not stupid…

Krysard.1364:

BurrTheKing.8571:

They are still very good at being the +1 in fights and using their absurd mobility to escape and decap. Honesty I don’t think Thief was supposed to be a 1v1 class, they’re supposed to pick out the weak target and destroy them then get out.

Also, you can still win many 1v1s by camping stealth and slowly wear down their defenses. I’ve also seen good thieves running S/D and S/P to great effect. D/P still feels spammy and is just flat out boring to both play and fight.

Personally I feel its more spammy the S/D build than the D/P build :/

I mean all Thief builds are kinda designed to be spammy insofar that you use the same combo over and over because you have no CDs and SB is mostly utility. You often have a skill you may almost never use as well. S/D at least forces you to try and land your first bit of skill 3 otherwise you can burn out quickly.

Jasher.6580:

I’m pretty sure every class’ current meta build puts up a very good fight against Thieve’s current meta build.

Am I wrong?

Thief is lowest tier at the moment. We all hope for the elite specialization to bring new wind into the class but hey I’m expecting the worst.

I’d put engies and rangers well below thieves. Thieves have a role in PvP. They don’t like it, for some reason, but they have a role that they are by far the best at.

Show yourself in a team fight (forest mid point is an ideal one), get them want to kill you, teleport back and forth like a mofo, whatch how your team kills the pack of hungry dogs chasing you, profit. But NO, never try to kill anything unless it has a knife/mask or ‘Svanir’ on its nameplate!

It counters distracted enemies players.

You don’t need to win 1v1 fights to be useful. You need only to take down the enemies fast.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Midi.8359:

Not really sure if you would call it a counter, but the warrior/thief 1v1 matchup is highly in favor of the thief in my opinion. Thing is though is that in the time it takes a thief to go through all of a warrior’s invulns + rampage you’d have wasted too much time for it to be worth it or a warrior could get a friend by then.

If we’re talking about Conquest, a thief should never engage anyone in 1v1 but thieves and mesmers.

Again, never said they should. Just that they win the matchup against warriors if they do.

I disagree with the whole idea of “never engage in 1v1’s” anywho. But that’s a discussion for a different thread (Would put it closer to 90% of the time myself).

Thieves are the best at wrecking bad players…. oh wait.

Thief shouldn’t counter any meta build.

Reason: Thief has the best mobility and with stealth is hard to catch. That means if the thief counters any class, he can basically hunt the victim down anytime he wants.

Other so-called hard counter won’t achieve even close to what thief can do to their prey. E.g. medi guard is super hard matchup for other squishy. However, you can almost always disengage against them. Or even better, you just don’t engage them at all. They won’t be able to catch you easily.

If your build gets countered by thief, then I am sorry, you will struggle to do anything as long as the enemy thief prioritize taking you out of the game. It can be easily done and will give their team a great advantage. The only way to deal with that, is to have thief on your own team babysit you. And we all know how hard that is.

So in the end. No one will ever bring a build into the game that struggles against thief.

DaShi.1368:

I’d put engies and rangers well below thieves. Thieves have a role in PvP. They don’t like it, for some reason, but they have a role that they are by far the best at.

I know rangers are meh based on tournaments but down here in ranked PvP I’ll take a ranger and especially an engi over a thief unless he can guarantee a 100% that he won’t drag us down and carries FPS like awareness.

Cynz.9437:

DaShi.1368:

Thieves have pushed out so many builds that the only builds left are those that the thieves can handle easily. They created their own problem.

1. conquest favors bruiers
2. thief players totally created this game, rrrrright!

I do not see the words, “thief players totally created this game”? Where do you see it?

" Thieves have pushed out so many builds that the only builds left are those that the thieves can handle easily. They created their own problem "

Here is evidence to support DaShi :

" Theif’s the most OP class "

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Theif-s-the-most-OP-class/first#post899731

“So, I keep reading through these forums and i hear over and over again the problem with theifs being able to infinite stealth is based on the “culling” but this is just a way of brushing off the topic that they are the most OP class in the game, and the profession make it less fun for other professions to play the game”.

" Thiefs are still OP "
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thiefs-are-still-OP/first#post185682

“With thief its just ridiculous.
I don’t think any profession should have the ability to kill any other profession in the game in just a few seconds…..

Its just not balanced".

New Report of Backstab Damage: 19 K. Backstab have recharge time- 1/4 seconds. Why give a high damage skill a very low recharge time with almost instant re-charge? How is this challenge for other professions?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/19k-backstab/first#post5406890

People would rather argue something they believe they can win than what is actually posted. I just finished dealing with another poster just like that.

DarkSyze.8627:

New Report of Backstab Damage: 19 K. Backstab have recharge time- 1/4 seconds. Why give a high damage skill a very low recharge time with almost instant re-charge?

Maybe you can explain to me how any Backstab in the current game can land with any damage at all, then be delivered again almost instantly?

Unless you’ve found an exploit, it doesn’t work that way. A second successful Backstab is gated behind a minimum of a 3-second Revealed and another application of Stealth.

To imply otherwise is either done completely from ignorance or is a deliberate attempt to feed misinformation to those who don’t know how Thief mechanics work.

Not to mention that a 19k Backstab Thief is a one-trick pony that can be swatted like a fly.

DarkSyze.8627:

Cynz.9437:

DaShi.1368:

Thieves have pushed out so many builds that the only builds left are those that the thieves can handle easily. They created their own problem.

1. conquest favors bruiers
2. thief players totally created this game, rrrrright!

I do not see the words, “thief players totally created this game”? Where do you see it?

" Thieves have pushed out so many builds that the only builds left are those that the thieves can handle easily. They created their own problem "

Here is evidence to support DaShi :

" Theif’s the most OP class "

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Theif-s-the-most-OP-class/first#post899731

“So, I keep reading through these forums and i hear over and over again the problem with theifs being able to infinite stealth is based on the “culling” but this is just a way of brushing off the topic that they are the most OP class in the game, and the profession make it less fun for other professions to play the game”.

" Thiefs are still OP "
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thiefs-are-still-OP/first#post185682

“With thief its just ridiculous.
I don’t think any profession should have the ability to kill any other profession in the game in just a few seconds…..

Its just not balanced".

New Report of Backstab Damage: 19 K. Backstab have recharge time- 1/4 seconds. Why give a high damage skill a very low recharge time with almost instant re-charge? How is this challenge for other professions?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/19k-backstab/first#post5406890

Last time I checked this was 2015. Maybe you should check thread ages before you start spamming “evidence” all over the place.

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

Cynz.9437:

DaShi.1368:

Thieves have pushed out so many builds that the only builds left are those that the thieves can handle easily. They created their own problem.

1. conquest favors bruiers
2. thief players totally created this game, rrrrright!

I do not see the words, “thief players totally created this game”? Where do you see it?

" Thieves have pushed out so many builds that the only builds left are those that the thieves can handle easily. They created their own problem "

Here is evidence to support DaShi :

" Theif’s the most OP class "

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Theif-s-the-most-OP-class/first#post899731

“So, I keep reading through these forums and i hear over and over again the problem with theifs being able to infinite stealth is based on the “culling” but this is just a way of brushing off the topic that they are the most OP class in the game, and the profession make it less fun for other professions to play the game”.

" Thiefs are still OP "
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thiefs-are-still-OP/first#post185682

“With thief its just ridiculous.
I don’t think any profession should have the ability to kill any other profession in the game in just a few seconds…..

Its just not balanced".

New Report of Backstab Damage: 19 K. Backstab have recharge time- 1/4 seconds. Why give a high damage skill a very low recharge time with almost instant re-charge? How is this challenge for other professions?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/19k-backstab/first#post5406890

Last time I checked this was 2015. Maybe you should check thread ages before you start spamming “evidence” all over the place.

You missed the point he was making, thief has always and will always be in the meta and it’ll always be strong, this thief, while it’s not able to truly counter anything, it can do almost anything in the game. Cleave, rez, 6k backstabs, set up dps, backcap, it’s the most all around thief we’ve ever had. This guy you’re trying to disprove in the use of a sentence is right. This mechanic is very strong and it’s unarguably very good.

The thing about thief is they are meant to pick their spots now, if you’re a thief trying to burst a full cooldown medi guard then yes you’ll be dead in seconds or a shocking aura ele, you’re simply stupid. Pick your points and you’ll do anything you could ask for in a game and dominate very easily nearly never dying and racking up the kills/caps.

I don’t think people realise how bad it would be If thief killed meta specs 1v1. This is exaxtly what the problem is right now with cele ele and the same problem with certain specs in the past such as old pistol whip. If a class with amazing mobility can 1v1, they could literally push into any point and force a 2v1. As soon as the 2 people are there to defend, the thief can just escape and get back to another point (mid probably) faster than the 2 other players. Even with just a few favourable matchups, this problem would arise.

The solution would be to make thieves choose between mobility and fight capability. For example, a thief without shadowstep or shortbow should be able to 1v1 well. Until the day thief meta no longer uses high mobility (shortbow), thief can’t be good at 1v1s.

Nina.4317:

BlackTruth.6813:

Nothing. It’s the hardest class in the game right now on top of engi.

Engi is NOT in a bad place, you have just to find the right build. i was saying the same thing like you after the last big patch but now some engi found very great builds.

Marauder Rampage elixir builds are all I see now.

Slininstien.7546:

You missed the point he was making, thief has always and will always be in the meta and it’ll always be strong, this thief, while it’s not able to truly counter anything, it can do almost anything in the game. Cleave, rez, 6k backstabs, set up dps, backcap, it’s the most all around thief we’ve ever had. This guy you’re trying to disprove in the use of a sentence is right. This mechanic is very strong and it’s unarguably very good.

The thing about thief is they are meant to pick their spots now, if you’re a thief trying to burst a full cooldown medi guard then yes you’ll be dead in seconds or a shocking aura ele, you’re simply stupid. Pick your points and you’ll do anything you could ask for in a game and dominate very easily nearly never dying and racking up the kills/caps.

I stopped reading after the bolded words. No, he has no point. None of you do. You all intentionally leave out information, alot of information, to sugar up your arguments. So let’s look at this information.

1. Everyone has some form of cleave or AoE. Thief does not excel at this beyond what other professions are capable of.

2. Everyone also has the ability to rez. Thief might have stealth rezzing but that can be countered by pelting the area with damage. All it takes is a little “situational awareness” and alot of mashing 1. You’ll either kill the thief or you will interrupt the ressing.

3. All of this burst damage that everyone complains about comes from a single skill. And so these players judge and balance an entire class based on a single skill. If I didn’t know better, this is a kittenty way to balance anything in an MMO. I am glad anet is much better than that.

4. Thief might excel at backcapping, but a nike war has just as much mobility and is just as capable of backcapping and running laps around the map as a thief. This is all because of mobility. Here is a vid of a thief chasing a nike war. Notice that he is using the Infiltrator Strike exploit to keep up with this war. In this situation, where this tactic is superior to heartseeker spam, it still takes the thief up to three minutes to kill this war. There is another vid out there where a thief and nike war race from point to point in orr and the war comes in slightly after the thief. Point being thief isn’t the only one who can backcap that well.

5. Thief has been nerfed enough. Daggerstorm used to be deadly in groups. Post nerf, it does half the damage it used to and its rate of fire more than that to keep it’s DPS from being godly. However, Daggerstorm suffers from a bug that stops it from firing daggers which happens inconsistently. Dancing dagger was just as bad so it’s damage was reduced. Backstab used to hit consistent 5-digit crits. Now on average its 6k with the occasional glitch. An assortment of skills were highly damaging with zerker, they had their damage reduced. In combat mobility and evasion used to be better but that got nerfed all over. Initiative gain could be great traited. First it was cut more than half and more gain traits were changed so there is even less. Resilience of shadows and Shadow’s Embrace, two big defensive traits got cut in half. Thief has been reduced to a stealth bot from what it originally was designed to be. And after all this, people still complain about thief.

6. Using high tier thief players as a reason to nerf a class at low tier is another example of kittenty balancing. You do not balance for low tier, you balance for mid to high and both are pretty balanced right now for thieves.

-There is more, but I got to go to work. I’ll finish when I get back-

Thief should in theory be able to counter mesmers

Thieves now are the best they have ever been. Now that shadow arts has 0 drawbacks to your dps while gaining good sustain and now two uses of your stolen bundle? Amazing. Thieves are great rezbots as well, they can do everything.
Only thing before that was out of place was them literally hard countering mesmers and now with their buffs that’s all gone. Tbh this current meta has been the best for both mes and thief in 3 years time.
They never were a “team fight” class but one to hang out on the side to dps down low health targets or assist.

Quadox.7834:

I don’t think people realise how bad it would be If thief killed meta specs 1v1. This is exaxtly what the problem is right now with cele ele and the same problem with certain specs in the past such as old pistol whip. If a class with amazing mobility can 1v1, they could literally push into any point and force a 2v1. As soon as the 2 people are there to defend, the thief can just escape and get back to another point (mid probably) faster than the 2 other players. Even with just a few favourable matchups, this problem would arise.

The solution would be to make thieves choose between mobility and fight capability. For example, a thief without shadowstep or shortbow should be able to 1v1 well. Until the day thief meta no longer uses high mobility (shortbow), thief can’t be good at 1v1s.

Largely agree with this, and would like to add one more thing. Thief being able to 1v1 so well would be much worse then cele ele, since it is a burst spec. With cele ele it takes a while to get kills so you have time to rotate appropriately, with a highly mobile burst spec that can 1v1 well, targets will be dead before teammates can come for support.

Nina.4317:

BlackTruth.6813:

Nothing. It’s the hardest class in the game right now on top of engi.

Engi is NOT in a bad place, you have just to find the right build. i was saying the same thing like you after the last big patch but now some engi found very great builds.

condi+fire offcourse engie build, see those bunkers guardian runing away of my circle…. but enything is playable when fire is there.

People saying Engi isn’t hard is forgetting one simple thing, they were only really easy during the cele meta from months ago.

Because slick shoes isn’t “viable” anymore, Engi is back to having to land 900 max range nades and most of all focus on landing SKILL SHOTS instead of getting carried by easy frame-eaters + tankiness. And the damage pool is so much higher now that you have to go soldiers just so you can react.

You people say not many people can “reach phantaram’s level,” okay sure lets go with that. But try and reach Five Gauge’s level with the skill shots and tell me if Engi is easy at THIS CURRENT META. Point is, reaching Phantaram’s level is WAY EASIER than reaching Five Gauge’s level just because Engi actually takes skill now.

TL;DR Engi takes skill now because slick shoes isn’t “viable”

P.S Okay you can say burn engi takes no skill to play, but that isn’t even viable because d/d ele is better anyways. So the only other thing that can compete is Five Gauge’s HGH soldier’s build which takes more skill than anything that’s a Mesmer, Ranger, Ele, Guardian.