Guild Wars 2

In any other esport or popular real world sports, SCORING A POINT is usually the most exciting part of the game. Slam dunks, three point shots, home runs, touch downs, you name it. Scoring points in gw2’s conquest mode on the other hand is as boring and as lame as it gets. One team could cap a pt and the 2 teams could have a dance off after and somebody would win. The passive scoring system has got to go first if anet wants to salvage spvp, or better yet, listen to the community and introduce a new competitive game mode.

Exciting offensive/defensive plays that lead to scoring or preventing a point which showcases teamwork or brilliant individual skill make games fun to watch or play. And plays are only possible if scoring points is an active endeavor and doesnt involve standing on a node while piling on points.

Everything in GW1 felt right, and in GW2 everything feels wrong, Conquest gets old really fast is so boring, u can’t make exciting builds like in GW1, the traits system is a joke. People in GW1 were always evolving, creating new builds new strategies. You can’t do that in GW2, the game modes in GW1 were amazing GvG,HA, TA all of these game modes were amazing. I’m so disappointed, heart broken.

Yeup.

GW1? LoL? DotA?

More points per kill.
Or 1pt/3sec rather than 1pt/2sec.
Or both.

+1
Current tick isn’t exhilerating. Slowing down the tick or boosting other factors would be better.

superchichi.6502:

In any other esport or popular real world sports, SCORING A POINT is usually the most exciting part of the game. Slam dunks, three point shots, home runs, touch downs, you name it. Scoring points in gw2’s conquest mode on the other hand is as boring and as lame as it gets. One team could cap a pt and the 2 teams could have a dance off after and somebody would win. The passive scoring system has got to go first if anet wants to salvage spvp, or better yet, listen to the community and introduce a new competitive game mode.

Exciting offensive/defensive plays that lead to scoring or preventing a point which showcases teamwork or brilliant individual skill make games fun to watch or play. And plays are only possible if scoring points is an active endeavor and doesnt involve standing on a node while piling on points.

Actually capping a point is like a turnover in football one of the more exciting things to see. 3 points is just right to allow a spectator to see variation in play, which keeps things “fresh”. I can’t believe you said basketball is exciting too when the ease of scoring makes the entire game seem trivial, maybe that is the comparison you are trying to make?

You want a new game mode? That is great, pitch something that would be an improvement. The way it is currently played now is great, and follows the model of almost every e-sports game (teams of five). CTF is dull to watch since you literally have one thing to do, I go cap the enemy flag and run it back home HOORAY a point (I use CTF because that is always a popular choice). Now it might be the most fun and engaging thing for you as the player, but to the person observing all they see is someone running back and forth, hardly engaging. That sort of game mode would even make people try to build even tankier than they do now to carry the flag.

A passive score gain is fine as it stresses the importance of multiple points on the map which in turn makes it so it is not one deathball vs another when all of the team’s elites are up. Making things matter all of the time for the entire game duration was a good choice, instead of being able to run away until all the cd’s are ready. The map secondary objectives are flavor on top of the game mode to keep it a refreshing experience.

I also disagree that kills should be given more points as they should in no way compete with the importance of node play. The should be a bonus for assaulting/defending a point and I believe they adequately do that.

Lets look at other games.

StarCraft:
Winning condition: Destroy all enemy structures.
Dota/LoL:
Winning condition: Destroy main enemy structure
GW1 GvG:
Winning condition. Kill enemy Guild Lord
WoW Arena:
Winning condition. Kill all enemy players.

GW2:
Winning condition. First to accumulate 500 points win.

Notice the difference between them and GW2? None of them focused on points capture on nodes for points. They do however still have specific locations that contributes to victory. Most importantly, it provides very unique ways in which teams can make a comeback as theres no set victory condition that involves a time-race in which players can attempt to imitate. This is one of the reason why WoW Arena made it in before WoW BG (Arathi Basin: Conquest type for those who never played) and why the BG Alterac Valey was most beloved by community (a GvG almost type of map).

Only way Conquest is acceptable is through shooter. Why? Its much more fast paced (often you die from 1-2 hits). Even then, TF2 and CoD are actually very boring to watch as it is just people shooting at eachother for 10 minutes.

Just visualize how stupid GW2 would sound in MLG.

Shoutcaster: TEAM A IS ABOUT TO CAPTURE NORTHERN NODE. AHHHHH!

Shoutcaster: OHHHH TEAM B IS ABOUT TO STEAL THE WESTERN NODE. OH LOOK AT THAT THIEF BURST DAMAGE.

Shoutcaster: OHHHH TEAM A IS 100 POINTS FROM WINNING.

I think a more exciting alternative would be less passive ticks from nodes or remove them. Give more for capturing/defending a node. Also a big bonus for a successful assault on a point.

I’ve watched some Gw2 tournaments being shout-cast and it was fun to watch.

Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War II (RTS game) has three victory points and the first team to reach a certain amount wins. It was fun to watch, too.

Its fun for 10 seconds, but once you have watched 100 matches its incredibly lame.

CoD conquest works better because you can’t ‘bunker’ a point or teleport your team.

I guess that was why Epic changed Unreal Tournament UT99 domination game type with points ticking while you control an area to the double domination gametype in UT2k3 with points given when a team controls both areas for 10 seconds straight. Once the point was given, areas would return to neutral and players would respawn from start.

More modes would also drastically open up the professions and meta for more versatility. Conquest only, fighting over little stationary points, puts balancing into a straightjacket.

superchichi.6502:

In any other esport or popular real world sports, SCORING A POINT is usually the most exciting part of the game.

Basketball = let the ball pass through the ring
Soccer = let the ball get into the goal
Hockey = let the puck get into the goal

How teams score points is actually the exciting part of the game.

Conquest games go from 500-10 or 500-489. The 500-489 matches are the exciting ones because you can tell that both teams are doing their best to score more points. And it is not merely one player bunkering a capture poin unattended.. I watched streams of top teams and they involve also killing and tactically maneuvering around the map to come back from behind and winning. These types of coming back from behind and their tactics on how they did it excited me the most. Sure, you won’t see a point free from opposition since the other team will send one or 2 people to cap. So you will see a 1vs1 or 2vs1 match. So the showcasing of individual skill is still there.

IDK why it is boring for some. I find it exciting, especially watching skilled people play. I can watch all along and not even bother putting my feet inside to compete. I guess there are subjective reasons why there are people who love basketball but hate soccer or vice versa.

@Taym.8326

Because the mode has 5 players like other successful games doesn’t mean it mean it should.

Yes secondary objectives are secondary objectives, no that doesn’t mean they fix the mode’s issues.

Making a game mode all about passive scoring cuts down one avenue of suspense.
A game needs a way to make up for it.
GW2 doesn’t do that.
Switching up passive scoring is the easiest way to fix that.

If you think capture the flag has to be similar to PvE style map exploration (just people running around)…
I mean, you can talk about any game mode then say “HORRAY” sarcastically at the end and it would just further emphasis how unable you are to make a valid point…

Yes if CTF was a ‘the competitive game mode’ (I think only people asked for casual, but okay) there would be specs made around carrying a flag, that is part of a game’s meta, right now there are people speccing to troll (unkillable X) afk’ing around the back point as a legitimate pro level position… and the game is desperately trying not to lose the last of its population in its first year… and that is better?

alcopaul.2156:

IDK why it is boring for some. I find it exciting, especially watching skilled people play. I can watch all along and not even bother putting my feet inside to compete. I guess there are subjective reasons why there are people who love basketball but hate soccer or vice versa.

GW2 has a few gems hidden up its combat, conquest seems to be just all drawbacks to it.
Forcing spike dps or bunkers, limiting the chance/time of larger group fights, exc.

garethh.3518:

GW2 has a few gems hidden up its combat, conquest seems to be just all drawbacks to it.
Forcing spike dps or bunkers, limiting the chance/time of larger group fights, exc.

New game mode perhaps? But that’s too early.

You know what, what added to my excitement is the shoutcaster. Prolly with more shoutcasting experience, shoutcasters could divulge technical aspects wrapped in easy to understand words a clutch act that a team is doing to gain significant amount of points/kill. Or tell us something about the team might’ve done to avoid a loss. Or whatever. The spectators, like me, would certainly want that.

I’m a big e-sport guy. Played in E-sports and enjoy watching most of them. Fighters are always entertaining to watch (SSB, street fighter, DoA, etc). Shooters often are, RTS like starcraft, and of course Dota/LoL are entertaining to watch.

I used to think this game would be entertaining to watch, but after they put in spectator mode….a patch that i thought would cause me to get more serious about this game, as i am one of the few who has a custom arena. I actually have found myself going days without logging on, and when i do am rarely on for more than an hour. I dont find the games entertaining, theres a lot of ablities that do not communicate well (boons etc), or simply clutter up the screen (mesmers etc). While i think arenanet did a great job with the spectator mode, it also made me realize how boring the matches are (conquest itself isnt that exciting)….and in turn has caused me to turn my attention to other e-sport games (ones that are actually E-sports for a reason).

No hard feelings about it, but i dont think i’ll be returning to this game for some time. Maybe a few months down the road if the next “big thing” doesnt come out that completely eclipses this game, i’ll come back and see whats been done. But right now, i’m feeling like i’ve over invested time in this game as the last 30 hours or so of gameplay were not very enjoyable, especially with so many other great games at my finger tips i could be playing.

Watching sports is very subjective. I find Baseball and American Football are a real bore to watch. One reason for that is the fact that I don’t know all the rules. That is entirely my fault. Having a shout-caster point out the significance of an action I would have overlooked otherwise helps me enjoy observing.

Gw2 being a game that you don’t like to watch or play doesn’t mean that it is a bad game or that it won’t find its player base.

Oh, and by the way, I don’t spend my time on Baseball forums telling people that their game would be better if the ball was bigger and the object was to kick it into a metal frame called goal.

Gw2 conquest is so boring cause all they focus on is standing on a point and rotating. If gw2 made more maps other than boring conquest like courtyard or just more TDM i’m 100% it would be much more better to watch.

I have lots of fun playing conquest. Watching it is interesting sometimes.

The big detractor from both is the lack of competition. When playing GW2 PvP, if often feels like one person is dragging your team down than your team doing well. It’s rare to get a match between all roughly equal players, but when you do, it’s exciting and fun. The same is true for watching it. Outside of a few matches, it’s clear one team is better than the other.

pfft, nice necroing a 2 year old thread

Lol this necro thread….though still is kinda true. Conquest is pretty boring to watch still.

I love conquest. I have a lot of fun watching the tournaments as well. So I disagree with the OP’s opinion.

UMMMMM THIS IS A JOKE

Im sorry but did you watch this years WTS when the ORNG beat the abjured? They double killed the beast and and got a double decapped after being triple capped. Then once again there triple capped and they go for lord get it and get a cap. Are you serious right now?

No matter what sport it is the competition determines the enjoyment of the games. For instance people outside the U.S dont like american football yet thats our countrys favorite sport. You talked about the nba and guess what no one liked watching the spurs dominate cleveland by 15 pts every game in the finals.

Lastly not knowing whats going on is a big one. Most people who play PvP can see what skills are being used but random people watching might not know. Same thing applies in every sport. Why is that not a carry or double dribble? So your not allowed to hit the QB anywhere besides the stomach or its a penalty but every other player is getting crushed?

Saying you dont enjoy it just means its not your sport, i dont like soccer but i love the NBA and i really enjoy GW2 PvP.

I really missed playing FA and JQ in gw1.

ghaleon.2861:

Everything in GW1 felt right, and in GW2 everything feels wrong, Conquest gets old really fast is so boring, u can’t make exciting builds like in GW1, the traits system is a joke. People in GW1 were always evolving, creating new builds new strategies. You can’t do that in GW2, the game modes in GW1 were amazing GvG,HA, TA all of these game modes were amazing. I’m so disappointed, heart broken.

+1

This post hits home. It feels like GW had the recipe for success and a few of the aforementioned items played a big part in it. I do not understand why GW didn’t keep these elements intact and build on them with GW2. If I had to compare GW2 to an outside example, I would bring in “New Coke.” Coca-cola tried to introduce a new recipe and it failed miserably. Why? Because people enjoyed Coke the way it was. Same with GW. It feels like GW deviated too far from what made it amazing to begin with, making it unappealing to its core GW1 audience. Almost all of my GW1 PvP friends do not play GW2 for this very reason.

Arcturus.5846:

Lets look at other games.

StarCraft:
Winning condition: Destroy all enemy structures.
Dota/LoL:
Winning condition: Destroy main enemy structure
GW1 GvG:
Winning condition. Kill enemy Guild Lord
WoW Arena:
Winning condition. Kill all enemy players.

GW2:
Winning condition. First to accumulate 500 points win.

Notice the difference between them and GW2? None of them focused on points capture on nodes for points. They do however still have specific locations that contributes to victory. Most importantly, it provides very unique ways in which teams can make a comeback as theres no set victory condition that involves a time-race in which players can attempt to imitate. This is one of the reason why WoW Arena made it in before WoW BG (Arathi Basin: Conquest type for those who never played) and why the BG Alterac Valey was most beloved by community (a GvG almost type of map).

Only way Conquest is acceptable is through shooter. Why? Its much more fast paced (often you die from 1-2 hits). Even then, TF2 and CoD are actually very boring to watch as it is just people shooting at eachother for 10 minutes.

Just visualize how stupid GW2 would sound in MLG.

Shoutcaster: TEAM A IS ABOUT TO CAPTURE NORTHERN NODE. AHHHHH!

Shoutcaster: OHHHH TEAM B IS ABOUT TO STEAL THE WESTERN NODE. OH LOOK AT THAT THIEF BURST DAMAGE.

Shoutcaster: OHHHH TEAM A IS 100 POINTS FROM WINNING.

You forgot gw1 Alliance battles…..

Winning conditions
To win a battle the winning side has to achieve one of the following conditions:
Accumulate 500 points before the other side.
Holding all 7 control points for 60 consecutive seconds sets the winning team’s point total to 500.
All they did was reduce that to a 5 man party.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Alliance_Battles

Wich makes every game mode here the “cap and leave” being eotm and WvW, its just a matter of numbers and having “fake” walls defending shrines for a ppt score.

They didn’t do anything new…. but rather a slacker innovation, called placebo wars 2, and sorry to be blunt once again on the forum.

Gw1 → https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdJM0xsbHhs

superchichi.6502:

In any other esport or popular real world sports, SCORING A POINT is usually the most exciting part of the game.

Actually no, there is a pretty significant divide betwin american sports and the rest of the world sports.

Compare popular American sports like: basketball and baseball. You score many many many points per game, a single particular point becomes less relevant.

Compare that to rest of the worlds pastime, Football: where there are in average may be 3 points per game. Then there is where a point is realy significant.

This just follows American sports design.

Aeolus.3615:

Arcturus.5846:

Lets look at other games.

StarCraft:
Winning condition: Destroy all enemy structures.
Dota/LoL:
Winning condition: Destroy main enemy structure
GW1 GvG:
Winning condition. Kill enemy Guild Lord
WoW Arena:
Winning condition. Kill all enemy players.

GW2:
Winning condition. First to accumulate 500 points win.

Notice the difference between them and GW2? None of them focused on points capture on nodes for points. They do however still have specific locations that contributes to victory. Most importantly, it provides very unique ways in which teams can make a comeback as theres no set victory condition that involves a time-race in which players can attempt to imitate. This is one of the reason why WoW Arena made it in before WoW BG (Arathi Basin: Conquest type for those who never played) and why the BG Alterac Valey was most beloved by community (a GvG almost type of map).

Only way Conquest is acceptable is through shooter. Why? Its much more fast paced (often you die from 1-2 hits). Even then, TF2 and CoD are actually very boring to watch as it is just people shooting at eachother for 10 minutes.

Just visualize how stupid GW2 would sound in MLG.

Shoutcaster: TEAM A IS ABOUT TO CAPTURE NORTHERN NODE. AHHHHH!

Shoutcaster: OHHHH TEAM B IS ABOUT TO STEAL THE WESTERN NODE. OH LOOK AT THAT THIEF BURST DAMAGE.

Shoutcaster: OHHHH TEAM A IS 100 POINTS FROM WINNING.

You forgot gw1 Alliance battles…..

Winning conditions
To win a battle the winning side has to achieve one of the following conditions:
Accumulate 500 points before the other side.
Holding all 7 control points for 60 consecutive seconds sets the winning team’s point total to 500.
All they did was reduce that to a 5 man party.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Alliance_Battles

Wich makes every game mode here the “cap and leave” being eotm and WvW, its just a matter of numbers and having “fake” walls defending shrines for a ppt score.

They didn’t do anything new…. but rather a slacker innovation, called placebo wars 2, and sorry to be blunt once again on the forum.

Gw1 -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdJM0xsbHhs

we should have 10 vs 10 conquest maps with 5 capture points in gw2.
that would be fun for hotjoin.

superchichi.6502:

In any other esport or popular real world sports, SCORING A POINT is usually the most exciting part of the game. Slam dunks, three point shots, home runs, touch downs, you name it. Scoring points in gw2’s conquest mode on the other hand is as boring and as lame as it gets. One team could cap a pt and the 2 teams could have a dance off after and somebody would win. The passive scoring system has got to go first if anet wants to salvage spvp, or better yet, listen to the community and introduce a new competitive game mode.

Exciting offensive/defensive plays that lead to scoring or preventing a point which showcases teamwork or brilliant individual skill make games fun to watch or play. And plays are only possible if scoring points is an active endeavor and doesnt involve standing on a node while piling on points.

The thing is, the only alternative to conquest is courtyard map, which they completely borked. Its just so small and limiting in what you can do on it. Courtyard has become my map of choice to AFK through when I have to tank my personal MMR.

I wish they would have made it proper map, proper size, also need some different mechanics, CTF, domination, hell, how about having a map with 5 or 7 cap points instead of just 3 ? So many things can be done. But please do not make these on tiny boring maps.

The first thing every players know: watch Other players play IS Boring!

And actually there’s a lot of strategy you can do.

And at the end of all, Every New way to win a match out of Conquest in this game was hated by almost all players!

Countryard: obtain points killing the enemy team. on eof the kind of spvp that you want, right?
No One Want to play it! Why it’s not conquer and everyone have builds for conquer.

STRONGHOLD!
At it’s beta test the main impression was: "ehi, that’s not conquest! We don’t want that kind of arena! We want conquest back!

We Have another way to play spvp: Countryard!
But no one want to play it.

We’ll obtain another way to make points in spvp: Stronghold!
But already 50% of spvp players said that they don’t want to play it…

Actually we focused into Conquest. that in this game make us able to play different roles and strategies.
Bunker to hold the point, decapper, dps to kill the enemy. We have to defend the point, conquer the enemy points, pay always attention to where’s the enemy and the strategy used to attack you.

There’s teams that focus on decap, teams that focus on hold points with a lot of bunkers, teams that zerk, teams that focus on kill the enemy by dps and who kill the enemy with the help of a necro to debuff them, making the enemy weak before kill him.

All the builds of GW2 in sPvP focus on the Conquest playstyle. That’s why no one want to play different pvp maps than the 3 we all love.

Ad to end: I really liked to watch the tournaments.

I’d rather watch a CTF game mode than conquest node capturing.

PimpsOnly.6751:

ghaleon.2861:

Everything in GW1 felt right, and in GW2 everything feels wrong, Conquest gets old really fast is so boring, u can’t make exciting builds like in GW1, the traits system is a joke. People in GW1 were always evolving, creating new builds new strategies. You can’t do that in GW2, the game modes in GW1 were amazing GvG,HA, TA all of these game modes were amazing. I’m so disappointed, heart broken.

+1

This post hits home. It feels like GW had the recipe for success and a few of the aforementioned items played a big part in it. I do not understand why GW didn’t keep these elements intact and build on them with GW2. If I had to compare GW2 to an outside example, I would bring in “New Coke.” Coca-cola tried to introduce a new recipe and it failed miserably. Why? Because people enjoyed Coke the way it was. Same with GW. It feels like GW deviated too far from what made it amazing to begin with, making it unappealing to its core GW1 audience. Almost all of my GW1 PvP friends do not play GW2 for this very reason.

+1

You do know that this is not the same Arena net team from GW2? What is even worse: 2 of the original creators/ co-founders: Patrick Wyatt and Jeff Strain who believed in challenge, fun, risk-reward, trying different strategies, trying different ideas, creativity and Fun, left the game. From the conclusion of my research: They made Fun their #1 priority . It was so much fun: players made many dance videos in youtube and posted many videos of having fun in GW1.

Last: They Even Made All Their Game Modes: Fun, Challenging, Creative, Using Skill Play, With Hard-Work-In The End…Be Reward For It

Ok, Read this post i posted:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Why-Balance-Problems-Won-t-End/first#post5407936

“There was couple question asked for the 2 original GW1 creators and 1 of the question someone asked was, “What was the main reason you left GW2”? Here is the answer: “We felt all the work we put in GW2 suddenly didn’t matter anymore, yea… (other creator), it was not suppose to end this way. We wanted GW2 to be a re-incarnation of GW2, an improvement of course having just about everything from GW1 of course… having our faithful players in mind..yes our faithful players who never gave up on us.”) Being another chapter to GW1 legacy (smile)” (i hide source)"

“Here is quote from a GW1 player, ““What if you had 5 players from GW1 with all the GW1 skills, attriubtes, health, armor and energy systems go up against 5 Players from GW2 with its respective skill system, no balancing as in armour or HP, just one game vs the other as is. Who would win?”

“With the sheer amount of DPS and armour youd think the GW2 players would win, they could one shot almost any char in GW1 but… GW1 has 100x times more skills, more creativity and clever ways to adapt to things, like kitten monk”.

Great Necro thread as the problem still exists 2 years later. Conquest totally sucks and I play like 5-10 games everyday, more on weekends. Every beta weekend I love the new mode, love it so much I literally play all weekend.

That mode has shown me what GW2 can be, now for more modes that are not conquest!!! GVG!!! Whatever, something!

Killacam.2064:

Great Necro thread as the problem still exists 2 years later. Conquest totally sucks and I play like 5-10 games everyday, more on weekends. Every beta weekend I love the new mode, love it so much I literally play all weekend.

That mode has shown me what GW2 can be, now for more modes that are not conquest!!! GVG!!! Whatever, something!

Agreed. I wonder if Anet will ever listen to the community and give us more game modes and skill diversity. At the rate things are going, it seems doubtful. Sigh… At least the one Stronghold map is a start…

And yet you kitteners hate Courtyard, when it’s built for those who want to only kill stuff. Or maybe not, you love Courtyard right?

Hey guys, there’s Stronghold as well. You know, the map where you can showcase your 1v1 pwnage power! What? You still don’t like Stronghold?

Maybe, just a guess, your game mode fantasy is a map where all the rest of the players have -1000 stat points and you have +1000 stat points. And there’s an announcer telling everyone you had a sextillion kill. And maybe play this music after showcasing your +1000 stat point advantange:

Do you even play StarCraft, Dota, LoL, or GW1 GvG? Those games require strategy. No matter the game objective, they reward STRATEGY over fast internet connections.

Are you gutsy enough boi? Use stacking bonus Sigils each and every game. Come, those sigils reward you for each kill you make.

I would enjoy capture the flag.

HaxTester.9816:

And yet you kitteners hate Courtyard, when it’s built for those who want to only kill stuff. Or maybe not, you love Courtyard right?

When people say deathmatch they think of 2vs2, 3vs3 ala wow style arenas.

Courtyard is just a zerk fest on a badly designed map.

HaxTester.9816:

Do you even play StarCraft, Dota, LoL, or GW1 GvG? Those games require strategy. No matter the game objective, they reward STRATEGY over fast internet connections.

As someone who played a lot of GW1 GvG and HA, I agree and would love to see new game modes like these in GW2.