Guild Wars 2

Silv.9207:

For what I know, GW2 is still a MMORPG, also in sPvP, Not a MOBA.
Do you want to play a real F2P MOBA game? You have to search for old and bad ones, why actually there’s not a single F2P MOBA on the web. They’re all maskered by F2P but if you don’t spend a LOT of money on them you will never achieve the true best ability, skills, characters, stats, and more.
Turn back to your Fake F2P LoL and be happy.
That’s a B2P game.

And, please, download a game is not a payment for the game you’re downloading.

Paragon – new MOBA that will have more than 2k players in it. Way better than sPvP Gw2.

Gigantic – new MOBA with F2P model.

Heroes of Storm, not that old, great F2P game with a superb business model making huge number of players.

Well… You seems to don’t understand 300 millions of MOBA players in a market, is much more than the 2k+ players in sPvP right now.

Or much more than Guild Wars 2 player based “all-time”.

I am sick of long queue time with a spvp population of more than 75%+ that can’t even play basics. (yeah I mean pver coming in a pvp game, ruining the fun for all players that know what they are doing)

Ubik.8315:

All elite specs should be automatically enabled in SPVP, particularly if they won’t nerf them all into the ground so original specs aren’t at a massive disadvantage unless you’re a 420pro.

Fair enough. But then what incentives sPvP players to purchase the expansion if they don’t play PvE or WvW?

Razor.9872:

Ubik.8315:

All elite specs should be automatically enabled in SPVP, particularly if they won’t nerf them all into the ground so original specs aren’t at a massive disadvantage unless you’re a 420pro.

Fair enough. But then what incentives sPvP players to purchase the expansion if they don’t play PvE or WvW?

The incentives? The sPvP players that want to PvE or WvW would pay for it.

Meanwhile, hybrid system like:

All CORE Free, 1 free specialization rotation / week Free, specialization unlock for 800 gems.

This would bring money from the sPvP populations. at 9 × 800 = 7200 gems.

https://gw2efficiency.com/currencies/gems

2100 golds or 90$ for all unlock.

Sound fair. Would respect MOBA business model.

And remember, many spvp players (me included) paid gem store of “character slot/cosmetic item”. So it’s not a total loss if they open up all FREE for spvp.

I took a look on them and more or less if you search you’ll find that there’s a lot of ways to aobtain a P2W status, with different things.
Buy heroes, boosters, card booster or drop rate enancher.

They’re not really F2P games.

They’re more accessible than GW2 for F2P gamers, but if you spend some time searching in the web you’ll find different situations and things that will make you an enternal Grade-B player. You will be able to reach high levels but not the top. more or less what happen in GW2, only lesser immediate to see. That also make you spend much more time on that game and when you reach the “top” you’ll see that there’s not a real Top level you can reach without pay for something. And you will pay or change game, another time.

If you play that HoS you’ll be forced at the end to buy a character or be a subpar player. (look in different forums and you’ll see that)

Paragon is a recent game but alreasy different players call it a P2W, also is not a game comparable to GW2 in any kind of way.

Idk about gigantic, but there’s already some Boost that grant big bonuses to who buy them. That’s the start, guy. 6 months and it will be a P2W like all the others.

That games was Studyed as a fake F2P and end as a P2W, like always.
The difference is all that:

-GW2 is a Buy to Play game that grants you to play for free all the core game with a F2P version, but it’s still a B2P game. Also, if you buy the game you don’t need to spend any other money ingame why all the shop items are also solt with ingame money (gold/gem conversion) and anyway they don’t grand any kind of advantage for who buy them. You spend money one time and you can play for years (literally, the expansion took 3 years to be released).

-Your list of “F2P” are well designed games to look as a F2P but in the end are P2W. You just need more time to see that and when you realize that, you’re already playing it for a lot of time, “forcing” you to stay there and spend some money (also not too much, just a little time by time) to keep up and don’t become a B-grade player (as you tecnlically are if compared to players that buy all the shining things and powerful heroes that make them win against any other player), just why you don’t want to waste all the time you spent on that game.
I admit that actually it’s the best working and more ingenious marketing system in online games, that grant a large amount of players and a large amount of moneys.
It’s a F2P!!! go all to play it!!!! oh, just a thing…now that you played for 3 months farming like a korean slave… do you see that super powerfull hero?… you need to buy it with real moneys or farm another year just to try to reach the amount of money you need to buy it with ingame cash… I’m sorry…
There’s people that work on that marketing system from ages, don’t be surprised that you think they’re real F2P games. You have just to realize that they’re not.

There’s not a single F2P online that don’t ask you to buy something, also just to don’t force you to work as a slave for things other players buy for 2$, making of you a grade-B player at 99% of times unable to fight at the same level of the other players that spend money and money over cards, boosts, heroes and more.

GW2 have not all that players just why it started as a BtP game, keepingplayers that don’t want to spend moneys away. Now that the F2P system had been released to make to more and more players to TRY this beautiful game there’s a lot of more people, yes, but they’re only trying this game into a F2P model.
ANet made that to make new players try this game and then BUY this game. That’s all.
No P2W, not B2W. Buy the game if you like it. Don’t buy the game if you don’t like it. Nothing more.

Silv.9207:

ANet made that to make new players try this game and then BUY this game. That’s all.
No P2W, not B2W. Buy the game if you like it. Don’t buy the game if you don’t like it. Nothing more.

Stop lying.

You said yourself that HoT is a must have to compete. So a must have to win.
So, it’s not B2P, it’s B2W.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/sPvP-DS-ranged-in-dire-situation/first#post6296998

“ANet don’t want to make you play the necromancer, ANet want to force you to play the Reaper and buy HoT if you’ve not it.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Here-s-how-to-balance-elite-with-core/page/2#post6150053

“2) They sell HoT and the main game only why there’s the chance to obtain that Elite Specializzations. Strip off the ES by HoT and no one will buy the game and everyone will play in F2P forever losing only a raid and 3 legendary weapons that was supposed to be the legendary weapons of the poor players but became much more expensive than the old ones. It’s marketing. no one make MMORPG of that level for free.

After that 2 really good reasons why ANet will never make the Core strong as the Elite, there’s the problem that they never announced any other Elite Specializzation and they probably will not announce any of them for still a long long time."

Yeah basically, you need to buy HoT to win games. Why, like you said it’s the only way to sell HoT.

And so on and so on…

I don’t understand why you continue to lie to yourself. Does Anet is paying you for that?

I am a sPvP fanboiz, I want sPvP to get better. I want it to Grow. sPvP is the best Multiplayer Online Battle Arena on Earth. But Smite is still F2P and do better with populations than gw2 that is B2W (in your own delusion – B2P).

Main sPvP problems is population. Match making would be way better if more than 500 players would know how to play it.

At this point it’s not P2W, it’s keeping up with the freaking game.

Do you want to raid? Better have HoT.
Do you not want to get kicked from fracs? Better have HoT.
Do you want to not get rofl stomped in PvP or WvW? (Which is arguable since I still kill people with pre hot builds in WvW, so clearly it’s not "pay2 WIN ") Better have HoT.

Should PvP maybe balance differently so this isn’t such a big deal?
PvP Should have been balanced differently since release around P vs P, and not base the game type on 3 point musical chairs that no one wants to watch despite the E-sport ad. This is not a issue exclusive to HoT!

My personal dislikes aside, the game shouldn’t have to be held back for people who don’t want to take part in the new content, you people get to play for free. Buy the game, then you can complain.

If you bought GW2, didn’t buy HoT, and care. Then keep up with the freaking game! You had 3ish years that should be more than enough for the value proposition.

The only other solutions that don’t split the community is.
A. Give everyone elite specs in PvP build window.
B. Remove Elite specs from PvP.

But really you should just buy HoT if you care about the game.

Yes. ANet want to sell HoT Expansion.
To be true: to sell the Game (if you buy it it’s the entire game, that is both core and expansion).

Had I ever told that Elite are here to make F2P play happy and win fights?
I told that ANet want to sell his game, like every company.
I also told that grant elite specs to F2P is a really terrible idea, simply why isn’t what ANet planned (and i can only hope that it’s not what they want to do), specifically why they want to Sell the game(+expansion), not make you play for free.

You simply summed all i told, without try to belive why I wrote that.

There’s a BIG Difference between a P2W and a B2P, that’s the only thing I want to make you understand.
But you all still insist to that “B2W”, that don’t even exist!

In terms that also you can understand:

Buy the game if tou want to Play this game and be at the same level of everyone.
Or be a F2P why you don’t want to spend some (few) moneys (also once for all, why if ANet continue with they’re timing you’ll don’t see another expansin before the next 2 years) for this beautiful game, that you also are a funboyz of (your words)

Any thing that make F2P don’t want to Buy that game is not a good thing for the game.

And what do you think will happen if ANet make F2P able to play at the same level of who bought the game? even in a single game mode.
They will have plently petitions and will lose a large amount of old players.
Give for Free the Best Contents of an Expansion? That’s the better way to lose a large amount of players.

If you really like this game, buy it.
If you don’t like enough this game to buy it, don’t ask to obtain for free the best contents of the only thing you pay for.

Has there ever been an MMO expansion that has not give players who have bought it some form of benefit/advantage over those that didn’t? If so, what percentage of all MMO expansions are like that?

Silv.9207:

Yes. ANet want to sell HoT Expansion.
To be true: to sell the Game (if you buy it it’s the entire game, that is both core and expansion).

Had I ever told that Elite are here to make F2P play happy and win fights?
I told that ANet want to sell his game, like every company.
I also told that grant elite specs to F2P is a really terrible idea, simply why isn’t what ANet planned (and i can only hope that it’s not what they want to do), specifically why they want to Sell the game(+expansion), not make you play for free.

You simply summed all i told, without try to belive why I wrote that.

There’s a BIG Difference between a P2W and a B2P, that’s the only thing I want to make you understand.
But you all still insist to that “B2W”, that don’t even exist!

In terms that also you can understand:

Buy the game if tou want to Play this game and be at the same level of everyone.
Or be a F2P why you don’t want to spend some (few) moneys (also once for all, why if ANet continue with they’re timing you’ll don’t see another expansin before the next 2 years) for this beautiful game, that you also are a funboyz of (your words)

Any thing that make F2P don’t want to Buy that game is not a good thing for the game.

And what do you think will happen if ANet make F2P able to play at the same level of who bought the game? even in a single game mode.
They will have plently petitions and will lose a large amount of old players.
Give for Free the Best Contents of an Expansion? That’s the better way to lose a large amount of players.

If you really like this game, buy it.
If you don’t like enough this game to buy it, don’t ask to obtain for free the best contents of the only thing you pay for.

Did i ever said i want free player to have the same access in SPVP (unlock advance classes) as the veteran (who bought vanilla gw2) and hot expansion buyers?

I just want the veteran to have access of advance class in SPVP ONLY. (not PVE and WVW)

Right now anet putting veteran player, the same situation as the free players.

free players never spend any money on gw2!

veteran players bought the vanilla gw2!!

i dont give a craps about free player dont have access of advance class in spvp.

what im here to say is, veteran play should have access to advance class in SPVP

and dont tell me to play other moba game, im already doing that, and im here just to save gw2 from being a dead game. more veteran are playing other game right now, see how long spvp que..

Other mmos have been doing the same as anet for years, a good example of this could be Wow. Seriously guys, guild wars isnt a free to play game, arenanet need the money to be able to make the content that we love. If they didnt make the xpack have an impact on the pvp side of the game, you would basically be able to play the game, at least the pvp side, without ever having to buy the actual game. If you enjoy playing the game you should have bought the xpack by now, if you havent you should probably play something else. Hot is almost a year old nowand saving up 50 euro/$ really isnt that hard.

It’s B2P.

You buy the GW2 core game, you play it.
You buy the GW2 expansion, you play it.
End of story.

Why are trolls bumping this thread?

Regardless of their intentions, it’s still a huge kitten move to go back on their original design philosophy of sPvP being a completely level playing field, where skill is the deciding factor, not higher levels or better gear or access to better abilities.

If they wanted to fix this they could either split queues for core/f2p vs HoT players, or allow elite spec access to core/f2p in sPvP, or just balance the kitten game so that elite specs aren’t the best option 100% of the time for every class. At this point all of those seem very unlikely, though.

If you people think this is P2W, you’re either trolls or idiots. Is this your first online game ever? Anyone that knows me knows that i criticize Anet ALOT, for pretty much everything they do. Rarely do I have something positive to say about them as a company. But this is the one thing they’ve been very fair about, keeping this game from becoming Pay2win.

If you think this is pay2win, then seriously, never play any other online game, you’ll be sorely disappointed. Of course you have to buy the expansion to stay relevant. That’s how it is in every game in the history of the internet. You can’t expect to stay relevant when you don’t have the expansion in any online game. That’s just stupid to think you can. What reason would people have to buy the expansion then if you could just have the base game for free and do just fine? Get a job and buy the expansion, its not that expensive.

nerovergil.5408:

Silv.9207:

Yes. ANet want to sell HoT Expansion.
To be true: to sell the Game (if you buy it it’s the entire game, that is both core and expansion).

Had I ever told that Elite are here to make F2P play happy and win fights?
I told that ANet want to sell his game, like every company.
I also told that grant elite specs to F2P is a really terrible idea, simply why isn’t what ANet planned (and i can only hope that it’s not what they want to do), specifically why they want to Sell the game(+expansion), not make you play for free.

You simply summed all i told, without try to belive why I wrote that.

There’s a BIG Difference between a P2W and a B2P, that’s the only thing I want to make you understand.
But you all still insist to that “B2W”, that don’t even exist!

In terms that also you can understand:

Buy the game if tou want to Play this game and be at the same level of everyone.
Or be a F2P why you don’t want to spend some (few) moneys (also once for all, why if ANet continue with they’re timing you’ll don’t see another expansin before the next 2 years) for this beautiful game, that you also are a funboyz of (your words)

Any thing that make F2P don’t want to Buy that game is not a good thing for the game.

And what do you think will happen if ANet make F2P able to play at the same level of who bought the game? even in a single game mode.
They will have plently petitions and will lose a large amount of old players.
Give for Free the Best Contents of an Expansion? That’s the better way to lose a large amount of players.

If you really like this game, buy it.
If you don’t like enough this game to buy it, don’t ask to obtain for free the best contents of the only thing you pay for.

Did i ever said i want free player to have the same access in SPVP (unlock advance classes) as the veteran (who bought vanilla gw2) and hot expansion buyers?

I just want the veteran to have access of advance class in SPVP ONLY. (not PVE and WVW)

Right now anet putting veteran player, the same situation as the free players.

free players never spend any money on gw2!

veteran players bought the vanilla gw2!!

i dont give a craps about free player dont have access of advance class in spvp.

what im here to say is, veteran play should have access to advance class in SPVP

and dont tell me to play other moba game, im already doing that, and im here just to save gw2 from being a dead game. more veteran are playing other game right now, see how long spvp que..

No-one is going to ctaer to you, buy the game or begone.

And i am also here to tell you, noone cares baout your veteran status, at this point you are leech, You are leeching off of everyone else. So, you have two choices:

- Buy the expansion and stop leeching off of everyone else
- uninstall your game (That’ll make you sleep at night)

Until then, ..

Sins.4782:

Regardless of their intentions, it’s still a huge kitten move to go back on their original design philosophy of sPvP being a completely level playing field, where skill is the deciding factor, not higher levels or better gear or access to better abilities.

If they wanted to fix this they could either split queues for core/f2p vs HoT players, or allow elite spec access to core/f2p in sPvP, or just balance the kitten game so that elite specs aren’t the best option 100% of the time for every class. At this point all of those seem very unlikely, though.

Nope, it is for everyone who own the game!!! what arent you getting., EXPANSION ARE PART OF THE GAME.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Sins.4782:

Regardless of their intentions, it’s still a huge kitten move to go back on their original design philosophy of sPvP being a completely level playing field, where skill is the deciding factor, not higher levels or better gear or access to better abilities.

If they wanted to fix this they could either split queues for core/f2p vs HoT players, or allow elite spec access to core/f2p in sPvP, or just balance the kitten game so that elite specs aren’t the best option 100% of the time for every class. At this point all of those seem very unlikely, though.

Nope, it is for everyone who own the game!!! what arent you getting., EXPANSION ARE PART OF THE GAME.

I bought the game twice m8, and HoT once. It ain’t fun crushing people playing core, and it certainly ain’t fun getting crushed when playing core. It isn’t competitive at all, and serious PvP players want competitive. News flash: everyone who has posted in this thread has bought the game at least once, f2p can’t even post on the forums. We’re all customers, and we’ve got a right to complain when a product we liked suddenly gets worse.

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

I and many others don’t want gw2 pvp to go down that path.

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Anet has to pay the bills!! You will not re-invent the wheel, that’s how MMOs work.

They should have 2 pvp types. One for HoT owners and one for those without.

And only owners of HoT should be able to participate in the league.

It ruins the game for you and them when they feel like they are forced to pay to even have a fair chance and you as a HoT owner lose a match or even many matches because one or more of your team do not stand a chance in hell.

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Rather than my reason, the reason is because it’s buy-to-play.

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Rather than my reason, the reason is because it’s buy-to-play.

Not for PvP it’s not. I only refer to PvP as pay-to-win.

If you release an expansion with skills and traits that are unreasonably stronger and far surpass the original ones and stick them in a competitive game mode, it’s pay-to-win. Simple as that. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Fivedawgs.4267:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Anet has to pay the bills!!

Guess what? So do I.

I don’t understand how people can’t understand that it is pay to win. The reason it is pay to win is because core is forced to compete with hot in all the game modes. Even wow had different tiers of pvp depending on what expansion you had.

So how is the remedied? You make the core specs as strong as the elite specs… or… you nerf the elite specs to be more in line with the core specs.

It’s a pretty simple concept. I won’t be buying the next expansion if they release something that is required to be competitive. You destroy build diversity even more that way.

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Rather than my reason, the reason is because it’s buy-to-play.

Not for PvP it’s not. I only refer to PvP as pay-to-win.

If you release an expansion with skills and traits that are unreasonably stronger and far surpass the original ones and stick them in a competitive game mode, it’s pay-to-win. Simple as that. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

That’s nice. Just because they are two separate games in your make-believe world doesn’t change the fact that they are a part of the same game herein reality and you are therefore wrong herein reality and it is buy-to-play.

Cobrakon.3108:

I don’t understand how people can’t understand that it is pay to win. The reason it is pay to win is because core is forced to compete with hot in all the game modes. Even wow had different tiers of pvp depending on what expansion you had.

So how is the remedied? You make the core specs as strong as the elite specs… or… you nerf the elite specs to be more in line with the core specs.

It’s a pretty simple concept. I won’t be buying the next expansion if they release something that is required to be competitive. You destroy build diversity even more that way.

Easiest solution is just to prevent non-hot players from doing ranked or leagues. Expansions are part of most MMO’s and the majority of them bestow benefits onto players who purchase them over those that do not.

I also don’t mind if non-expansion players are just isolated either. It seems that a lot of them want that too. Just don’t complain about the long queues if Anet were to do that.

The reason why people say it’s P2W is because that HoT elite specs for sPvP are clearly 10x better than vanilla.

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Rather than my reason, the reason is because it’s buy-to-play.

Not for PvP it’s not. I only refer to PvP as pay-to-win.

If you release an expansion with skills and traits that are unreasonably stronger and far surpass the original ones and stick them in a competitive game mode, it’s pay-to-win. Simple as that. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

That’s nice. Just because they are two separate games in your make-believe world doesn’t change the fact that they are a part of the same game herein reality and you are therefore wrong herein reality and it is buy-to-play.

Thank you for the spin. I never said they were separate games, I said that a portion of the game(PvP) is pay-to-win thanks to the expansion. If anything, denying that you have to pay to get access to elite builds that make it easier to win is the real make-believe.

JTGuevara.9018:

Fivedawgs.4267:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Anet has to pay the bills!!

Guess what? So do I.

Then, you understand how life works. Nothing of value is free, If you value this game or Hot, then you should have no problem spending another 50 bucks on it.

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Rather than my reason, the reason is because it’s buy-to-play.

Not for PvP it’s not. I only refer to PvP as pay-to-win.

If you release an expansion with skills and traits that are unreasonably stronger and far surpass the original ones and stick them in a competitive game mode, it’s pay-to-win. Simple as that. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

That’s nice. Just because they are two separate games in your make-believe world doesn’t change the fact that they are a part of the same game herein reality and you are therefore wrong herein reality and it is buy-to-play.

Thank you for the spin. I never said they were separate games, I said that a portion of the game(PvP) is pay-to-win thanks to the expansion.

It’s still buy to play like most MMORPGs that offer Xpacks. What’s confusing is that (metaphorically) Anet is allowing lvl 85 to play along side lvl 80’s in PvP, in comparison. Of course you’re at a disadvantage, but the game is still not p2w.
@ JT If you still haven’t saved up since their first HoT announcement then you probably have bigger issues at hand.

Edit
Appreciate the pm’s in response to this thread. In that regards, Anet’s personal agenda in wanting E-sports doesn’t mean we’re entitled to a free game, nor does it change the reason how this game isn’t B2P. There may be a hundred and 1 reasons as to why we disagree with Anet’s decision making, but the game and Xpansion, by definition, is B2P.

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Rather than my reason, the reason is because it’s buy-to-play.

Not for PvP it’s not. I only refer to PvP as pay-to-win.

If you release an expansion with skills and traits that are unreasonably stronger and far surpass the original ones and stick them in a competitive game mode, it’s pay-to-win. Simple as that. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

That’s nice. Just because they are two separate games in your make-believe world doesn’t change the fact that they are a part of the same game herein reality and you are therefore wrong herein reality and it is buy-to-play.

Thank you for the spin. I never said they were separate games, I said that a portion of the game(PvP) is pay-to-win thanks to the expansion. If anything, denying that you have to pay to get access to elite builds that make it easier to win is the real make-believe.

Elite specializations are part of the expansion regardless as to whether or not they are used in PvP, and the expansion is buy-to-play. Misconstrue the facts all you’d like, but that’ll never make your false opinion anything more than make-believe.

Going back to the OP’s question of “Why did they make GW2’s spvp p2w?”

I think it was probably something they thought a long time about, because you can see that many new things from HoT (runes, signets, etc) can be bought with gold, but the classes/skill trees can’t.

There were probably people on the team that said that it is wrong to create a p2w situation, creating a massive power gap beaten those who pay and those who don’t, but in the end whoever is in charge thought this was the best way to monetize it. A bit short-sighted imo.

I guess every game is p2w. I mean, how can you win if you don’t pay to buy it, right? Hell, even for supposedly free games I still need to pay for internet, electricity. computer parts. Free my kitten butt.

Razor.9872:

Ubik.8315:

All elite specs should be automatically enabled in SPVP, particularly if they won’t nerf them all into the ground so original specs aren’t at a massive disadvantage unless you’re a 420pro.

Fair enough. But then what incentives sPvP players to purchase the expansion if they don’t play PvE or WvW?

This may have been a key reason why they didn’t make the elite specs available to all players in spvp. A lot of spvp players were obviously going to buy HoT in order to be competitive, so it was guaranteed money in the bag.

Cosbuster.4379:

I guess every game is p2w. I mean, how can you win if you don’t pay to buy it, right? Hell, even for supposedly free games I still need to pay for internet, electricity. computer parts. Free my kitten butt.

Does sPvP is a skill based game?

Does the skill based design should give equals chance of winning to all?

Does a skill based design give all options to players to compete with?

Does F2P of Gw2 (yeah, it exist right there for more than 1 year) achieve all game design and specifications of sPvP?

If no, do you realize your are antagonizing a player based? The F2P players still buy gem, you know? So, they still pay the bills, right?

Do MMORPG players, understand that MOBA are 10x populous (or popular) than classic MMORPG, because they are easier to access? (most of them are F2P)

Does sPvP players of Gw2 want more players to play with, so more competitions?

To compete better on the market, we need to have 1 strong vocal design… not two design that clash together. F2P is a thing in Gw2 right now. Stop thinking it’s not there. It’s there and it bring a lot of new players in summer 2015. Those same players we lost in Octobr 2015 behind a paywall.

I did pay HoT. Only for 9 specialisation. I don’t play PVE or WvW. I did pay too much money for the worth it bring for my playstyle.

I want sPvP to grow. It’s obvious we are not growing since December 2015.

Since sPvP is a MOBA, let’s do like them to bring more players in.

Jourdelune.7456:

runeblade.7514:

Just separate Free trial players from Expansion players. Solution done.

Hmmm… I agree with you.

HoT Queues would take 1 hour, while CORE Queue would get under 30 sec, like it was in summer 2015 with the Free to Play successful conversion rate.

Then that means core classes is better balanced than HoT classes. Shame on the balance team.

Jourdelune.7456:

Razor.9872:

Ubik.8315:

All elite specs should be automatically enabled in SPVP, particularly if they won’t nerf them all into the ground so original specs aren’t at a massive disadvantage unless you’re a 420pro.

Fair enough. But then what incentives sPvP players to purchase the expansion if they don’t play PvE or WvW?

The incentives? The sPvP players that want to PvE or WvW would pay for it.

Meanwhile, hybrid system like:

All CORE Free, 1 free specialization rotation / week Free, specialization unlock for 800 gems.

This would bring money from the sPvP populations. at 9 × 800 = 7200 gems.

https://gw2efficiency.com/currencies/gems

2100 golds or 90$ for all unlock.

Sound fair. Would respect MOBA business model.

And remember, many spvp players (me included) paid gem store of “character slot/cosmetic item”. So it’s not a total loss if they open up all FREE for spvp.

I like this without the 700 gems to pay for elite specialization.

It will incentivize players to buy the expansion while giving them the ability to be competitive.

Jourdelune.7456:

Since sPvP is a MOBA, let’s do like them to bring more players in.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t a MOBA; it’s an MMORPG.

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Since sPvP is a MOBA, let’s do like them to bring more players in.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t a MOBA; it’s an MMORPG.

There you have it, according to Velimere.7685, the reason GW2 is p2w is because its a mmorpg.

Before HoT this was the only mmorpg that had absolutely no p2w in its spvp gamemode, and it was a godsend.

Yasha.5963:

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Since sPvP is a MOBA, let’s do like them to bring more players in.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t a MOBA; it’s an MMORPG.

There you have it, according to Velimere.7685, the reason GW2 is p2w is because its a mmorpg.

Before HoT this was the only mmorpg that had absolutely no p2w in its spvp gamemode, and it was a godsend.

Well, before HoT, the core game wasn’t accessible to free players.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Yasha.5963:

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Since sPvP is a MOBA, let’s do like them to bring more players in.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t a MOBA; it’s an MMORPG.

There you have it, according to Velimere.7685, the reason GW2 is p2w is because its a mmorpg.

Before HoT this was the only mmorpg that had absolutely no p2w in its spvp gamemode, and it was a godsend.

Well, before HoT, the core game wasn’t accessible to free players.

That is correct, HoT made GW2 p2W. Its not outrageous and stupid p2w like in Neverwinter online and some other games, but for spvp it is a step down from what we had.

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Rather than my reason, the reason is because it’s buy-to-play.

Not for PvP it’s not. I only refer to PvP as pay-to-win.

If you release an expansion with skills and traits that are unreasonably stronger and far surpass the original ones and stick them in a competitive game mode, it’s pay-to-win. Simple as that. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

That’s nice. Just because they are two separate games in your make-believe world doesn’t change the fact that they are a part of the same game herein reality and you are therefore wrong herein reality and it is buy-to-play.

Thank you for the spin. I never said they were separate games, I said that a portion of the game(PvP) is pay-to-win thanks to the expansion. If anything, denying that you have to pay to get access to elite builds that make it easier to win is the real make-believe.

Elite specializations are part of the expansion regardless as to whether or not they are used in PvP, and the expansion is buy-to-play. Misconstrue the facts all you’d like, but that’ll never make your false opinion anything more than make-believe.

Pay-to-win means you have to buy to play in order to win. I don’t reject the fact that you have to pay to buy the expansion to play it, I reject the statement that the whole of the expansion is “buy-to-play” when there is evidence to the contrary in PvP where you have to PAY to WIN.

Why is this conversation still going on? GW2 isn’t P2W game. If you want to success in PvP then you buy HoT expansion and that’s it. You don’t have to pay anything extra. And if you are good enough, you can succeed even without Heart of Thorns expansion. Only 10 year old kid wouldn’t understand this is BUSINESS. It needs to make money in order to keep players getting new content.

So…. If you are older than 10 year old, you will accept that you can’t get same stuff than people who payed for expanion pack. They paid for it so they can play it. If you are under 10 year old, and wished you could play every aspect of this game, you should speak to your parents if they could buy the expansion for you… The End.

Mutaatti.2789:

Why is this conversation still going on? GW2 isn’t P2W game. If you want to success in PvP then you buy HoT expansion and that’s it. You don’t have to pay anything extra. And if you are good enough, you can succeed even without Heart of Thorns expansion. Only 10 year old kid wouldn’t understand this is BUSINESS. It needs to make money in order to keep players getting new content.

So…. If you are older than 10 year old, you will accept that you can’t get same stuff than people who paid for expanion pack. They paid for it so they can play it. If you are under 10 year old, and wished you could play every aspect of this game, you should speak to your parents if they could buy the expansion for you… The End.

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Rather than my reason, the reason is because it’s buy-to-play.

Not for PvP it’s not. I only refer to PvP as pay-to-win.

If you release an expansion with skills and traits that are unreasonably stronger and far surpass the original ones and stick them in a competitive game mode, it’s pay-to-win. Simple as that. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

That’s nice. Just because they are two separate games in your make-believe world doesn’t change the fact that they are a part of the same game herein reality and you are therefore wrong herein reality and it is buy-to-play.

Thank you for the spin. I never said they were separate games, I said that a portion of the game(PvP) is pay-to-win thanks to the expansion. If anything, denying that you have to pay to get access to elite builds that make it easier to win is the real make-believe.

Elite specializations are part of the expansion regardless as to whether or not they are used in PvP, and the expansion is buy-to-play. Misconstrue the facts all you’d like, but that’ll never make your false opinion anything more than make-believe.

Pay-to-win means you have to buy to play in order to win. I don’t reject the fact that you have to pay to buy the expansion to play it, I reject the statement that the whole of the expansion is “buy-to-play” when there is evidence to the contrary in PvP where you have to PAY to WIN.

That’s a bit wrong.

Pay to Win means you have to pay multiple times in order to be better than everyone else. This usually comes in forms of in-game micro transactions like buying potions, boosts, gear, etc.

Buy to play is paying once and not having to pay ever again.
This is a buy to play game regardless of core classes playing along side of elite players.

I don’t agree with Anet’s design philosophy, we were promised everything being on even footing, but the game is still B2P per its definition.

Yasha.5963:

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Since sPvP is a MOBA, let’s do like them to bring more players in.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t a MOBA; it’s an MMORPG.

There you have it, according to Velimere.7685, the reason GW2 is p2w is because its a mmorpg.

Before HoT this was the only mmorpg that had absolutely no p2w in its spvp gamemode, and it was a godsend.

It’s not pay-to-win; stop putting words in my mouth. This game is buy-to-play.

JTGuevara.9018:

Pay-to-win means you have to buy to play in order to win. I don’t reject the fact that you have to pay to buy the expansion to play it, I reject the statement that the whole of the expansion is “buy-to-play” when there is evidence to the contrary in PvP where you have to PAY to WIN.

You’re wrong.

Saiyan.1704:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Rather than my reason, the reason is because it’s buy-to-play.

Not for PvP it’s not. I only refer to PvP as pay-to-win.

If you release an expansion with skills and traits that are unreasonably stronger and far surpass the original ones and stick them in a competitive game mode, it’s pay-to-win. Simple as that. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

That’s nice. Just because they are two separate games in your make-believe world doesn’t change the fact that they are a part of the same game herein reality and you are therefore wrong herein reality and it is buy-to-play.

Thank you for the spin. I never said they were separate games, I said that a portion of the game(PvP) is pay-to-win thanks to the expansion. If anything, denying that you have to pay to get access to elite builds that make it easier to win is the real make-believe.

Elite specializations are part of the expansion regardless as to whether or not they are used in PvP, and the expansion is buy-to-play. Misconstrue the facts all you’d like, but that’ll never make your false opinion anything more than make-believe.

Pay-to-win means you have to buy to play in order to win. I don’t reject the fact that you have to pay to buy the expansion to play it, I reject the statement that the whole of the expansion is “buy-to-play” when there is evidence to the contrary in PvP where you have to PAY to WIN.

That’s a bit wrong.

Pay to Win means you have to pay multiple times in order to be better than everyone else. This usually comes in forms of in-game micro transactions like buying potions, boosts, gear, etc.

I certainly does not mean that. It just means you can pay real money to have an advantage, something that is especially bad in pvp. One of the things that made GW2’s spvp amazing was the fact that there was no way at all to pay for an advantage.

It is still an incredible game, but it is now also p2w, although thankfully in a very mild way compared to some other similar games.

Yasha.5963:

It is still an incredible game, but it is now also p2w, although thankfully in a very mild way compared to some other similar games.

Except it isn’t pay-to-win. It’s buy-to-play.