Guild Wars 2

Hi,

i was wondering why everyone says that having a thief in your team results in a guaranteed loss.
But I figured out what the reason is, that teams with a thief often lose.

Just had a game in which the thief got flamed hard, that the thief should reroll and that it’s necessary because they know the enemy team is a premate team.

One from the team said he would go afk since there is no reason to play and he did so for about 2 minutes.
In addition, almost everyone in the team was to busy writing instead of playing,

The result was that the enemy team won with a great lead.
And in the stat window at the end it was revealed that the enemy was NOT premade but were only 1 two-man team.

tldr: Teams lose because players go afk or dont play serious when they have a thief in the team

Because thief can’t carry anymore. Thief can still be useful but that requires that his team sets up winning +1 situations for him and/or doesn’t screw up his decap rotations.

I thought it was because of the AoE and traps…

Still yet to see a thief get on point without being instantly killed by traps.

sephiroth.4217:

I thought it was because of the AoE and traps…

Still yet to see a thief get on point without being instantly killed by traps.

This is a gross exaggeration and you know it. I personally have yet to get instagibbed by traps. Walking on to a node, you have more than enough time to react to them. The only time I’ve died to traps on a thief is when I’ve got too confident in a fight.

The reason most soloq games with a thief are a loss is because the solo comp is not built to support the thief. In AG you still see teams with a thief, because they can support it.

I think thieves can be extremely useful if they play well but it just seems to take a lot of skill to make them work right now.

I agree with you OP. Countless times I’ve been in a match and someone says “You’re playing Thief, gg guys” This completely destroys the morale of the team before the games even begins. Although we still win some of these games and the funny thing is the person who said “gg b/c thief” usually ends up being the sorriest player on the team.

Good thieves (1) exist; (2) carry; and (3) typically result in a win.

It’s easy to fall into groupthink, though. Thief isn’t forgiving in this meta, so you actually have to be good at it to contribute to the match. In contrast to, for example, bunker mesmer, etc.

There is random thief on eu (by random i mean not on pro team or anything) he is almost diamond just by soloquing and ive won every game when he is on my team and if i remember right then lost every time hes on enemy team.
Thief is excellent in soloque carry as it has always been, he can pick easy targets because not like soloquers can ask teammate to help on teamspeak.
The problem is that thief class sucks for bad player. Between good and bad revenant there is not such big gap but bad thief is insta dead and good thief never dies.
So ye its just hard class to play not bad.

There have been alot of suggestion to nerf things what makes thief OP at high level of play and buff things that makes them weak at lower tiers but all thiefs always like to pretend that they are super skilled ninjas and whine as fast as someone points out OP aspects of class.

I even think that as fast as top teams wont have to play double revenant thief might be meta pick again.

I don’t mind having a good thief in the team, especially in Khylo where they shine the brightest.

Curious if people feel having a DD on team is still worse then having non-elite specs on team.

Thief’s just get blamed for everything, especially by bad players.

Common scenario (had this in Upper Tier Ruby):
Team asks me to cap close then come mid. Fine, makes sense. I do exactly that, then notice my team is already at half health by time close capped. I rush mid as fast as I can, by the time I make it to mid someone is already dead and rest are very low. I burst down enemy player and target body for help stomping as I’m being focused. No one helps, downed guy gets ressed. Now more of my team in downed state and 5th enemy player arrived. Remaining teammates focusing enemy bunker mesmer despite me targeting DH who is very low and I’ve alrdy downed once. Rest of team get downed despite me downing DH again, one guy gets quickness stomped before I can stomp DH, kitten. I retreat and go close to defend, calling for help from respawn. Respawn go mid 1 by 1 and die. One guy goes far and dies. No one goes close and I end of 3v1 and die. Loose game and everyone sayskittenkitten thief was guaranteed loss lol lol.

Anyone see problem here?

crouze.3078:

Why having thief in team = loss

Because spvp is about capturing and holding points. And thief skills are not suited for that purpose. That doesn’t mean they cannot contribute to win a match given some good teamwork, or that they are not good in other aspects of the game.

Thief really is terrible right now.
Right along with Warrior.

Mathematically and even dynamically in team fights or 1v1s, they provide nothing even near as valuable as: Chrono/Temp/Reap/Scrap/DH/Herald. Not even close, not by a long shot.

Ranger is also hurting but at least has an obnoxious bunker spec that can hold points.

Winning team fights is only half the game. If you split up and rotate well, you can set up easy ganks for the thief and pull off nice decap plays.

If you have a thief on your team, the trick is not to engage in all out 4-5 man team fights.

I often get into the problem that people in my team blame everything that went wrogn on me while I play thief.

People are so blindfolded by the fact that there’s a thief on their team that they can’t recognize their own mistakes anymore.

When I play Daredevil I’m always confident of winning. Same goes for Berserker.

When I have a Thief/War on my team I’m always skeptical, but I encourage the team all the same, lay out the plan, and hope everybody sticks to it.

I disagree. Having a thief can be amazing iff the player is good and gets some decent support from his teammates. The problem is not many thieves are that great and just can’t pull it off. Everyone can play bunker mesmer and be decent at it, useful for his team somehow, but for thief it’s much much harder. However, it doesn’t mean having a thief on your team = loss.

I’ve had several games with a thief from TA and we won every single game he was on my thief, he was good and definitely not a burden. So yes, it’s possible to be useful on thief, it’s just a matter of skill.

the other day i got 2 thieves in my team and guess what we won.

On the other hand i mostly play Warrior and i win most of my games, if my team qq about me playing my favorite profession then they have a problem with Anet not with me.

I play a berserker amulet staff ele in pvp. When I tell people on my team, I often get the same “gg”. However, it doesn’t demoralize me, and I still go on to win a lot. I think the reason a lot of teams with thief lose is not because players give up (which happens sometimes), but rather that the role of a thief is hard to pull off. The thief is responsible to decap any point instantly when the enemies leave it. This means that the enemy team has to leave a player on each point, which puts them at a disavantage in numbers on the rest of the map. Because a thief can move faster than others, he can be mid 5v4, and as soon as the other player shows up, he can decap and the team can pull out back to home. The strategy of a game with a thief depends a lot on their performance.

I recently won a game with 2 thieves, but with my damage and theirs we would play the zerg game and won that way. The other 2 players camped on points.

There is more than one way to win, but it requires changing the teams strategy depending on your team and your opponents.

Loboling.5293:

I play a berserker amulet staff ele in pvp. When I tell people on my team, I often get the same “gg”. However, it doesn’t demoralize me

It’s not that you are getting demotivated but the players that call the gg.
They assume that you have allready lost because you are not playing meta.
The result is that they are demoralized and dont play serious.

Because a thief has a high skill cap, its squishy as a ele and hits like a wet noodle for good reason since a good thief would be in stealth/dodging 70 -80% of the fight and this is not made easy now with many professions having stealth reveal abilities

If there is a thief in your team then there is only two outcomes either he’s a hero or a zero, there is no middleground and it becomes pretty evident as the match progresses. Most ppl automatically assume you are bad ,we lost the game by pointing fingers on the Meta

The problem is not the person to play with thief or warrior, but the person playing the wrong way …..

Can be any class if one does not have the right skill is defeat.

There are many players who only know how to complain in this forum and can not play … I realized this because cry saying that the pvp system is bad, when in fact they are the players who complain here they are.

Just one play well with the class that is playing thief, warrior or another class. Show your skills to the team

Had a thief a few nights back that kept 3 players engaged on their home cap all by his lonesome. Bouncy lil bugger was keeping it capped and couldn’t be killed. Granted, he wasn’t doing much damage, but thanks to him/her the rest of us went 4v2 for long stretches.

The meta is a terrible handicap on the average player’s mentality and creativity. It’s a pity.

Average player doesn’t know how to play on capture points, and especially how to play safe. That’s probably an issue today, because of how forgiveable builds are..

I mean, when you’re winning 350-220 on foefire, why would you risk pushing lord ??
When you’re posting 4 times " get their treb, don’t suicide middle", why do people ignore treb and do fight mid ??? When you’re 480-480 2 points to one, why would you go to their point ??

I’ve played enough solo queue games to know builds( except in some extreme cases) are details, usually players behaviours are mostly responsible for the outcome of the game

thieves are fine the problem are the people who don t know how to play with a teammate playing as thief

i had some games there was absolutly nothing i could do for them .3

Thieves have more than have a place PvP. Anyone saying otherwise is talking nonsense. The amount of times a thief has won the match for us is countless. Decapping, killing creatures and lords. Now if I have 2 longbow rangers that don’t melee on my team I know our odds of winning have just taken a dip.

It’s simple. Arena net took the player out of player vs player.

As for “People who think there good” You do realize half these thieves where annihilating these whiner’s for year’s. sadly these players don’t realize they are not winning now at all. it was just arena net’s nerf one power creep the rest approch that makes them believe there “more skilled” This is really common in ESL player’s.

I got some good rage Shot’s from some of them,

If your a thief just play to have fun. the dev’s cater to the fingerless in this game and i cant see it changing any time soon. They already killed the combat of this game, it’s just a matter of time before pvp dies (Look at Wvw the exact same thing happened there)

A simple Trick

1) Aim for high ranks with a kitten bunker class
2) play thief
3) you don’t have to troll, go afk or other things. just play thief as its best.
4) bring down with you every ppl in team.
5) wait for ANET to remove bunker meta, and for their apologies.

crouze.3078:

Loboling.5293:

I play a berserker amulet staff ele in pvp. When I tell people on my team, I often get the same “gg”. However, it doesn’t demoralize me

It’s not that you are getting demotivated but the players that call the gg.
They assume that you have allready lost because you are not playing meta.
The result is that they are demoralized and dont play serious.

Oooooooh that explains why people complain I run D/D on Ele… I like 12s of static Aura share. I also like the disrupts for saving allies from stomps n such. Blast finishers, also only used d/d for 3 years now.

Highlie.7641:

It’s simple. Arena net took the player out of player vs player.

As for “People who think there good” You do realize half these thieves where annihilating these whiner’s for year’s. sadly these players don’t realize they are not winning now at all. it was just arena net’s nerf one power creep the rest approch that makes them believe there “more skilled” This is really common in ESL player’s.

I got some good rage Shot’s from some of them,

If your a thief just play to have fun. the dev’s cater to the fingerless in this game and i cant see it changing any time soon. They already killed the combat of this game, it’s just a matter of time before pvp dies (Look at Wvw the exact same thing happened there)

In other news, both grammer and punctuation took 9000 damage from you -_-u

“you are” = you’re, not your

“belongs to” = their, not there XD

Problem with thief is you gotta be pro to play it. But if the enemy is pro also you get rekt hard. If you are getting rekt than you are not useful. Thus thief is only good if you are good and are playing against bads.

What you describe in the OP is not thief being bad, but the bad attitude of some people who play the game.

Like someone said, a good thief is still good but a bad thief really shows. But in the meta we have right now the worst players can get away with murder on their bunker classes. They dont need to rotate since they don’t die, they dont need to look out for tells or save their dodges for important aoes or approach classes in different manners its just autopilot.
Thieves are where the game should be at the moment where skill and knowledge determines the result not ignoring everything around you while you input your keys in a certain order

it’s setup dependent.
if opponent got necros, eles and no gua thief can carry hard.
if opponent has no necro but got plenty scrappers, druids or guas you better reroll to something else.

MadVisions.4529:

it’s setup dependent.
if opponent got necros, eles and no gua thief can carry hard.
if opponent has no necro but got plenty scrappers, druids or guas you better reroll to something else.

Actually dp thief is an amazing +1 against druids

Unfortunately for the thief players Anet has made the thief a complete non factor. In the pro league only 1 team ran thief, and they only ran it on Kyhlo (thief friendly to the max). Now they won the match handily, but you could tell they would have done better if Toker was back on Rev.

So while I agree that you have to be extremely good at thief to make it work, the problem remains is that you can do much more as a non thief class. Even in instances where you on thief greatly out skill your opponents, because you on rev/scrapper/etc. where you greatly out skill your opponents benefits your team more.

Now where skill is in the same ball park you are a detriment to your team.

I personally suck at everything but thief, it’s the only class I’ve managed to get 50%+ win rate with, (I only soloq because I have 0 friends in this game q.q).

Thief has amazing mobility which is why they are beneficial to the team, with SB 5 and dash you can move across the map in seconds, so having a thief is definitely not bad for the team.

Well I think both ‘camps’ have a point. Generally I don’t want to tell teammembers what to do, but currently I’m getting a bit frustrated with the classes. Not because of the players, but because of the balance.

If the enemy team has 2 bunker-mesmer, 1 bunker-ele, 1 condi-rev and I think 1 marauer scrapper. What should a thief kill in this team and where should he decap?

If the enemy is equally skilled and they play a 2-cap-game the thief will do nothing the whole game. He will hit&run with minimal impact and he can’t fight on midpoint because there is lot’s of cc, aoe condi and wells.

I really don’t want to judge but in this meta experience tells me that I should better play against thief and not with thief. Therefore if enemy team is quite mobile and tanky I would prefer thief rerolling.

(experiences in saphire and ruby, don’t know if it is different in higher or lower elo)