Guild Wars 2

cranked.3812:

runeblade.7514:

cranked.3812:

Please don’t waste the time on this devs. I know some people want this, but there are so many things in the game that actually need fixing/attention long before something else is added that, I believe, a small percentage of people want. We already have pvp areas that are great for fighting each other.

And dueling is one of those important things. Which a large majority want.

Really? So, your telling me a majority of the player base wants dueling? Please enlighten me with your evidence.

I can’t say one way or the other because I have no evidence as well, but my suspicions are that the majority would rather see QoL, TP, wvw, pvp, dungeon updates long before dueling.

Yeah, I really don’t think the vast majority of people give a kitten about duelling, Runeblade and his 2 firends that keep spamming on dueling relate threads think the more posts are pro duelling and the more chances they have to see this feature live, the only problem is that they are always the same few people XD… we are not that blind.

If you look at his posts history you will se hes a real spamming machine lol

besides there are more improtant things before even thinking about duels.

Justin ODell.9517:

evildeadjunky.1576:

Maybe cause its stupid that you have to load like 3 screens to do it?

You can directly join a custom arena from anywhere. You do not need to be in the Heart of the Mists anymore.

@Justin ODell

Justin, as owner of what probably is the most active PvP Server in North America,
[1 v 1] GASM’s PvP Arena let me just briefly go over my experience with moderating the 1v1 PvP environment in your custom Arenas.

My Arena is active maybe 18-19 hours of the day in which 4-5 hours it is left empty. Every day, I wake up to 4-5 mails begging me to kick troll X or troll Y from my server because they’re ruining everyone’s duels. Then troll X tells me and says that Troll Y started it. Then we have multiple people joining the server to just to ruin everyone else’s fun. Sure, I could ban all of these people… BUT THE BAN LIST GETS FULL AFTER 25 PEOPLE!
I have to ban 5-10 people almost everyday and unban those people at the top of the list. There is NO way I can keep the PvP arenas untrolled!

We’re trying to stick a circle through a square trying to have dueling in custom arenas. We’re doing our best to cope with this but you need to give us something to work with!

Furthermore there are many people who don’t duel because there is no progression to it. Add dueling and add a progression system, some kind of rating, rank points… whatever. Make it official and make it part of the game, not some discarded, unimportant part of the game that no one cares about.

I have a FULL server almost every day for almost the WHOLE day. People ask me to kick others out of the server so that they can get it… the desire for it is ridiculous, it should be a priority, not something on the back-burner! Make it special, make it right!

Lukin.4061:

The “against duels” arguments are weak at best:
1 ….

Yes! They are! And the arguments for it are really good!

In addition, most of the few negative concerns can be quite easily fixed. It’s easy to understand why one wouldn’t take a good look at the big benefits from a dueling-system, if he/she doesn’t like dueling.

pupi.2465:

jsduke.6537:

No dueling in PVE zones. No thanks. Never.

You want to duel? Go to PvP arenas and duel your heart out. That is what that area is for.

If you don’t like the way dueling works in PvP arenas, then request changes to that part of the game. Don’t bring that crap to PVE.

You do realise that Duels dont affect Pve right? Tho, duelling was a part of waiting for long queues (Raids and Dungeons) in past mmo’s and training even when someone would teach you some moves when they know more than you the class you’re playing (even for pve bosses fight), your hate against duelling jsut delay your pve experience in a sense of boredon.

Ppl asking for the denial of such features that would benefit all kinds of players and not only for those who are found of pvp is just going backwards in time.

When you ask for devs (please no this, and no that) know this, you are denying a part of the game that would bring something for you, in a case or another when you least could expect.

Say no to content (even pvp when you dont like) = enjoying your empty world. (just see as the current state of the game is).

just a tip.

I know very well what I am saying “no” to. That’s why I’m saying “no”.

sminkiottone.6972:

cranked.3812:

runeblade.7514:

cranked.3812:

Please don’t waste the time on this devs. I know some people want this, but there are so many things in the game that actually need fixing/attention long before something else is added that, I believe, a small percentage of people want. We already have pvp areas that are great for fighting each other.

And dueling is one of those important things. Which a large majority want.

Really? So, your telling me a majority of the player base wants dueling? Please enlighten me with your evidence.

I can’t say one way or the other because I have no evidence as well, but my suspicions are that the majority would rather see QoL, TP, wvw, pvp, dungeon updates long before dueling.

Yeah, I really don’t think the vast majority of people give a kitten about duelling, Runeblade and his 2 firends that keep spamming on dueling relate threads think the more posts are pro duelling and the more chances they have to see this feature live, the only problem is that they are always the same few people XD… we are not that blind.

If you look at his posts history you will se hes a real spamming machine lol

besides there are more improtant things before even thinking about duels.

Absolutely this. Although they do an incredible job of demonstrating exactly the type of behaviour that gives open world dueling a bad rap.

Relshdan.6854:

put it in the arena in the charr city (breath some life into the city)…..but NOT in open world.

some people don’t like being bothered by strangers who want to duel…..who then harass you if you decide not to duel them. its a problem in all games that have open world dueling.

you know that most mmo’s have dueling system and all of them have the option to block duel requests, you can turn that option on and no one will bother you with duels = you are happy. Ppl that like dueling will have duel requests enable = every one is happy.

Figlilly.3907:

No, please, a thousand times no or at least lock the duelists away so I don’t have to look at them. The bunny hopping kittens letting off their skills in the middle of town now is bad enough to fray my nerves, I can’t imagine how much worse it would be if they were able to fight each other.

I don’t want to look at Rangers. ANet should lock rangers away in some zone so I don’t have to look at them.

if it’s ever added there need to be some anti-abuse systems.

• option to decline all duels (default)
• inviting the same person not more than once every 30 seconds
• harassment-reporting option (which currently only works via email)

apart from that, I’d really like something to do while waiting around for large scale events like tequatl or great jungle wurm. maybe the feature pack patch will solve some of these problems, but right now I’m standing around for over an hour for each wurmtry and about 30-45 minutes for tequatl. if I could do something during that time whithout leaving the map, I’d be glad. duelling would certainly be a good way to fight the endless boredom.
I think it’s very shortsighted to say dueling has no place in pve. in fact, it’s just the opposite. dueling only really works if people are not enemies already (like in wvw) and both have to decide they want to duel. only then can it ever work as a friendly match.

Oranisagu.3706:

if it’s ever added there need to be some anti-abuse systems.

• option to decline all duels (default)
• inviting the same person not more than once every 30 seconds
• harassment-reporting option (which currently only works via email)

apart from that, I’d really like something to do while waiting around for large scale events like tequatl or great jungle wurm. maybe the feature pack patch will solve some of these problems, but right now I’m standing around for over an hour for each wurmtry and about 30-45 minutes for tequatl. if I could do something during that time whithout leaving the map, I’d be glad. duelling would certainly be a good way to fight the endless boredom.
I think it’s very shortsighted to say dueling has no place in pve. in fact, it’s just the opposite. dueling only really works if people are not enemies already (like in wvw) and both have to decide they want to duel. only then can it ever work as a friendly match.

but that is why we have costume brawl

never mind the boxes of fun, tonics, toys and naked dance parties.

at least that is what we do waiting around for events

Zirith.6429:

Vanthian.9267:

Zirith.6429:

We arnt talking about a rated 1v1 dueling system, we are talking about the ability to 1v1 anywhere you want for fun instead of just afking in town or logging off or afking while waiting for something to happen.

Neither was I. Open world dueling is just a failed idea because it will be populated by a majority of Thieves and Mesmers as stated. Plus, why would you want to fight a bunch of PvEr’s anyway? They are not geared towards nor accustomed to doing PvP. What could you possibly gain from fighting a bunch of PvEr’s?

The almost all pure PvEr’s will just deny the request for a duel, so in essence this is nothing more than a plea for people to beg for duels from PvEr’s and then call people cowards for not wanting to fight.

It is easier and less clutter for everyone else in PvE if you go duel in the area designated solely for PvP. Go to the Heart of the Mists and duel in a empty server. There are literately at least 5 at all times (even though some say they have 1 person in them most of them don’t, at least in my experience). Not only will that take you out of PvE but it will also take away your hyper inflated stats and make the fight more profession/skill based.

You really seem to have no idea what dueling is :/ if people do choose to play perma stealth survival specs while dueling then other people just wont duel them and the other guy could just leave the area or concede (they would have to add at least 1 of those features), there is nothing to gain from anything you do in this game it is just a time sink; Some people want to enjoy dueling wherever they want while wasting their time instead of wasting even more time going to a server where they cannot test roaming builds or be sure that no one will interfere.

We want to duel for FUN, not to win.

I don’t know about you, but perma stealthing or stacking only toughness and healing while doing nothing but stay alive… Is not fun.

I just want to duel friends and maybe ask in map chat if noone’s online. Ofcourse I’m not going to stalk random players in the open world, and use a prismatic understand build to gain 60% stealth uptime, an when im not atealthef, i just heal and dodge…. What would be the point of that? Trying to kill each ither is fun, not trying to not do anything.

Also, have you ever fought a warrior/guard/decap engi? They dont have atealth, and are harder than mesmers and thieves to kill, even though those have stealth. spamming stealth doesnt require any skill. In fact, spamming anything requires no skill, thats why it’s spamming.

Any knowledgeable player knows how to counter stealth.

Why are you afraid of mesmers and thieves duelling? How does that possibly diminish your experience in game, while doing conpletely different things?

Morrigan.2809:

but that is why we have costume brawl

never mind the boxes of fun, tonics, toys and naked dance parties.

at least that is what we do waiting around for events

yes, and if any of those things would have been thought out more, they could be a nice distraction. but I see no fun in costume brawl – as soon as one mad king thorn is around, there’s not even a chance of winning even once. most skills are clunky, root you in place and so on, for me that’s not even remotely fun.

dueling is the same as costume brawl but with actually working skills, at least a semblance of balance (of course the game is not balanced on 1v1s, but it’s not that far off compared to costume brawl), and with the added benefit of actually being useful as a teaching/learning mechanic. especially with the trait resets coming soon it would be a great way to pass the time and try out different builds.

According to reliable numbers 80% of the players want Dueling in the open world and 95% of the players want Dueling in open world or arenas. That is a total of 175% of players wanting Dueling in one form or another.

That means if you’re one of the people that does not want dueling, you are in the minority that does not exist.

Tom Gore.4035:

According to reliable numbers 80% of the players want Dueling in the open world and 95% of the players want Dueling in open world or arenas. That is a total of 175% of players wanting Dueling in one form or another.

That means if you’re one of the people that does not want dueling, you are in the minority that does not exist.

well played sir, well played

NO CAPES !!

Err .. i mean .. NO MOUNTS !!

Ups .. NO OPEN-PvP

Argh .. last try : NO DUELS.

But isn’t it all the same ? Maybe i should also add NO TRINITY these days

Morrigan.2809:

Tom Gore.4035:

According to reliable numbers 80% of the players want Dueling in the open world and 95% of the players want Dueling in open world or arenas. That is a total of 175% of players wanting Dueling in one form or another.

That means if you’re one of the people that does not want dueling, you are in the minority that does not exist.

well played sir, well played

yes – extremely well played. using bad comments as a strawman argument against the cause itself. you do realize both sides have made the same ridiculous claims?
the whole discussion about how many players want something or not is, as always, futile and should simply be ignored instead of derailing the thread even further with your clever (I’m sure you think so at least) remarks to stroke your ego.

fact is, it’s a feature some people want and others never want to come in contact with. precautions need to be taken for the latter group not to be disturbed, if the feature is ever added. but if those are taken, there’s no rational reason to be against adding this feature except for wanting the devs to spend time on things someone personally wants more, which of course is a good argument, as the devs have to see what their target audience wants.

and on a sidenote: pvp arenas never were a decent alternative to a dueling because:

• possibility of getting disrupted or having to pay for a private arena
• wvw/pve players would not be able to use their builds/gear to duel with
• changing maps is necessary, while this feature would be very useful when having to wait ON a map

Oranisagu.3706:

Morrigan.2809:

Tom Gore.4035:

According to reliable numbers 80% of the players want Dueling in the open world and 95% of the players want Dueling in open world or arenas. That is a total of 175% of players wanting Dueling in one form or another.

That means if you’re one of the people that does not want dueling, you are in the minority that does not exist.

well played sir, well played

yes – extremely well played. using bad comments as a strawman argument against the cause itself. you do realize both sides have made the same ridiculous claims?
the whole discussion about how many players want something or not is, as always, futile and should simply be ignored instead of derailing the thread even further with your clever (I’m sure you think so at least) remarks to stroke your ego.

fact is, it’s a feature some people want and others never want to come in contact with. precautions need to be taken for the latter group not to be disturbed, if the feature is ever added. but if those are taken, there’s no rational reason to be against adding this feature except for wanting the devs to spend time on things someone personally wants more, which of course is a good argument, as the devs have to see what their target audience wants.

and on a sidenote: pvp arenas never were a decent alternative to a dueling because:

• possibility of getting disrupted or having to pay for a private arena
• wvw/pve players would not be able to use their builds/gear to duel with
• changing maps is necessary, while this feature would be very useful when having to wait ON a map

not sure if you are talking to me or Tom Gore.
and yes I found his comment very funny because that is exactly kind of argument you often see in these threads.

Not sure how ego stroking is involved.

I understand that dueling is a feature that some people would love and I am also sure that there are people who would use it for the purposes you state and not abuse it.

I am also 100% sure that there are many many players who will use it to grief others.

You only have to look at any of the many dueling threads to see the attitude of so called pro duelers- seems to me they do not understand the term duel and substitute it for gank.

So it is not really a great mystery that many people are against it.

I have always suggested that we get arenas that is open in all the major cities- we can have stands and people can watch- heck they can even bet on their favorite “gladiators” and have leader boards.
That imo would add to the game- it would be great fun.
it would also be something that all players can enjoy

I do not however think that dueling belongs in the open world

Oranisagu.3706:

Morrigan.2809:

Tom Gore.4035:

According to reliable numbers 80% of the players want Dueling in the open world and 95% of the players want Dueling in open world or arenas. That is a total of 175% of players wanting Dueling in one form or another.

That means if you’re one of the people that does not want dueling, you are in the minority that does not exist.

well played sir, well played

yes – extremely well played. using bad comments as a strawman argument against the cause itself. you do realize both sides have made the same ridiculous claims?
the whole discussion about how many players want something or not is, as always, futile and should simply be ignored instead of derailing the thread even further with your clever (I’m sure you think so at least) remarks to stroke your ego.

fact is, it’s a feature some people want and others never want to come in contact with. precautions need to be taken for the latter group not to be disturbed, if the feature is ever added. but if those are taken, there’s no rational reason to be against adding this feature except for wanting the devs to spend time on things someone personally wants more, which of course is a good argument, as the devs have to see what their target audience wants.

and on a sidenote: pvp arenas never were a decent alternative to a dueling because:

• possibility of getting disrupted or having to pay for a private arena
• wvw/pve players would not be able to use their builds/gear to duel with
• changing maps is necessary, while this feature would be very useful when having to wait ON a map

It was not an argument on the matter itself. It was an argument against people using “most people want this” when they mean “I want this and I think some other do, too”. Don’t use numbers you don’t have.

Volrath.1473:

Relshdan.6854:

put it in the arena in the charr city (breath some life into the city)…..but NOT in open world.

some people don’t like being bothered by strangers who want to duel…..who then harass you if you decide not to duel them. its a problem in all games that have open world dueling.

you know that most mmo’s have dueling system and all of them have the option to block duel requests, you can turn that option on and no one will bother you with duels = you are happy. Ppl that like dueling will have duel requests enable = every one is happy.

you conveniently quoted what suited your argument. as i said, the person can just whisper you to to turn off your “no dueling” setting. in a one-time scenario, its no problem to just block that person if they harrass you any further…..but then this happens multiple times a play session and it becomes obnoxious. that’s far less likely to happen when i’m roaming orr, if it means we both have to waypoint back to Black Citadel.

why can’t you duel in a dedicated arena in a major city….for free….in pve? put it in the arena in charr city, and people could fill the stands to watch if they want to. you can duel until your heart is content….and other people can watch/see you just like if you were in open world.

for you, it must have to be open world so that you can more easily harrass/bother other people. that’s the only advantage to open-world dueling.

You can duel. They have private PvP servers that work wonderfully for that. As a matter of fact, you can set up and plan dueling tournaments, award prizes to the winners, etc. as well as have multiple matches running at the same time.

The open world PvE area simply isn’t designed for dueling, it’s non-competitive at the very core. Maybe they could design something like the Queen’s Gauntlet perhaps, but it wouldn’t be an overnight task even if they were to prioritize it over the many other things they’ve prioritized. However a nice little dueling arena in Southsun hosted by the Consortium would possibly work well… a mini-zone that’s a large arena with stands for onlookers, etc.

Open world dueling? No thanks. Structured dueling? Already exists, but could be enhanced.

Still a /no vote for open world dueling here.

Pvp belongs in the mists, in its own areans.

OR

Set up a separate pvp server, for all those people that need to open world duel. Then the rest of us pvers don’t have to put up with it.

I understand that people have different desires, and play differently. I respect that some of you want to duel in open world pve. Please respect that I don’t want to have to deal with the bullkitten that a lot of those open world duelers bring with them, and having a simple ‘decline’ option is not the answer to the issues many of us are concerned about.

Seifer Thalaen.7869:

Maybe because this is a TEAM BASED game?

Citation please…

yes please, 95% of the time when I’m bored in Wow I hang outside of Org and duel while (95% of the time I’m bored in gw2 I log off. Just give the option to deny all duels for people who r against it.

Lukin.4061:

The “against duels” arguments are weak at best:
1. I don’t want effect spam somewhere where I can see it, because it frays my nerves : (
2. I don’t want people to challenge me, because pressing decline is hard.
3. Dueling creates toxic players, don’t let this game become toxic, because toxic, toxic…
4. There already is a possibility to duel, all you need is to spend actual money, buy a custom arena, go to arena, wait for someone to come, offer him a duel, find him on the map, hope no one else joins your server while you are dueling and interrupts it. If this system is perfect, I suggest doing something similar to lets say dungeons, or just mob grinding in general. Rent a mob with gems, find him on a map, hope noone steals the kill, kill him, get XP, rent it again in a couple of weeks, since he expired.

Exactly this . . . is just incredible.

How many times we have to objective explain that custom arenas do not have the necessary for dueling with WvW circumstances like food, gear, skill differences.

Justin ODell.9517:

Simplest answer I can give is that it just isn’t as high a priority as other things we have been working on.

Why do you feel custom arenas do not work for those that want to duel?

Because your Lead Game director said himself that its “The awkward way of doing it”.

Joining an empty server where you can probably duel someone for roughly 10 minutes until people start swarming in is not a good way for duels.

You have created this huge, beautiful world that next to no one explores anymore. Give players incentive to go out there every once in a while. You have no idea how many times me and friends have gone somewhere completely far away from any hub cities and dueled in an area for a short while purely because it’s a scenic experience and changes dueling tactics in a fun way.

Duels in PvE? No thanks. If I am in PvE, I want to do that. If I am in PvP, I want to do that.

Instead, I would like to see a 1v1 duel arena with associated leaderboards.

style.6173:

Duels in PvE? No thanks. If I am in PvE, I want to do that. If I am in PvP, I want to do that.

Instead, I would like to see a 1v1 duel arena with associated leaderboards.

Is there a reason why can’t you say, “No thanks,” to people who request duel against you?

GW2, along with duels, need Larger Spvp maps, with Capture the Flag ie, i know, the lore doesnt allow open world pvp, but i really miss Factions in this game.

{Post 1 of 2}
I would like to see an option for dueling. I haven’t read the thread in full, but here’s my take on the appeal… you devs like long posts full of ideas, right? ;)

My reasons in support of a duel feature:

1. Players coming from more hostile PvP games or just new to PvP altogether can duel as a way to “get comfortable” with everything. For example, I didn’t step into Heart of the Mists because I felt that the fights there would be so far beyond my skill level I may as well not have bothered; it was only when I joined a large guild group in WvW – many times – that I got comfortable with the idea.

2. It gives us a new way to explore existing content. Some examples:
-Southsun Cove is full of scary monsters, but by now I’m a seasoned veteran of the place. I dodge pretty much every dangerous attack while I’m just casually running through. It’s not even as scary as a morning walk now. So… what if I could duel someone there? As a mesmer, it’d be an interesting situation; I’d have to be more careful with my dodge rolls if I trait to spawn illusions, but there’s potential for me to Mimic and steal the various awesome projectiles the mobs use there.
-Fighting in Malchor’s Leap/Cursed Shore would be interesting for the same reasons, except – in some maps – there’s the added potential of having to deal with the corrupted statues and their painful area effects.
-Really, any less-populated map works for this. I rarely see anyone in all of Ascalon, but there’s a lot of structures there like charr tanks and the like that we don’t even get to run around in WvW.
-There’s all kinds of environmental objects, even siege like the asuran megalaser in Metrica that I feel could spice more spontanious fights up. Same for consumable weapons; I’ve been dying to have a proper use for the Golem-in-a-Box.

3. It would make the roleplayers very happy. Like, ridiculously happy.

4. You can teach less experienced players certain tricks(kit-happy engineers come to mind), or help them come to terms with why a certain build works, either by dueling them or letting them just watch another duel. Or even better, this gives players access to an environment where they can reliably learn how to counter-play certain tactics. I would honestly say that last bit is an excellent way to learn from players how unbalanced something is, or otherwise help stabilize a recently-shifted meta.

5. As mentioned on page 1 or so, it’s an excellent way to test wvw builds on the fly. As more traits become available, build diversity opens up more and more, and – ideally – it’ll be much more about whether someone feels their build matches their playstyle. Dueling creates a safe environment to test builds rapidly, which in turn means there will be much less soured feelings on entering WvW and dying quickly because there’s a group of thieves trolling your keep.

{Post 2 of 2}
Now, here’s some features and restrictions I would like to come built with a free, open world dueling system.

1. No city duels EXCEPT in established areas, preferably spectator-friendly areas, away from the usual idling/chatting hotspots. The Queen’s Pavilion, the arena at the Bane waypoint in the Citadel, and maybe the lowest floor of Rata Sum comes to mind. Maybe don’t even put one in (New) LA, that city’s laggy enough.

2. As mentioned, a flag for duel permission.

3. I would add that a “team color” would be nice, and interact with same/different guilds in some way. This opens the possibility of having 5v5s to test WvW strategies amongst guild members, but also allows guilds on a single server to fight one another. …Wow, actual Guild Wars in the open world! I bet that would be inspiring for new players to see; right now Guild vs Guild options all seem oddly shuffled off to the side and hidden, like they are Arenanet’s secret shame. Embrace them! Make them known, make them spectatable!

4. Options to wager gold. Bonus: Tax it! This has a double-sided effect of both giving certain player demographics who enjoy betting on themselves something to do, as well as creating a gold-sinking option to bring the economy back down a bit. If possible, make it work with the team flag thing above so that entire groups can pool together a bet. It’s an entirely optional, entirely player-driven goldsink. MAYBE make an option to bet other things like laurels and gems(untaxed, I’d hope), but at a minimum, gold would be nice.

5. Other tweakable duel options where feasible. Maybe in the city duels, allow an option to just go straight to Defeated so the duel ends quicker. Custom timer. Something fun like “number of lives”, where you auto res on downed a limited number of times — actually just look at Super Smash Bros for inspiration here. They’ve had lots of cool gamemodes over the years, and it would be delightful to see the Arenanet take on the idea.
Most of these options would probably be best in a city environment, since the mechanics could feasibly be abused in the open world. Besides, a city makes a lot more sense as a “safe” zone for duels, where medics are onhand to pull swords out of you and the like.

6. Disable dueling in overflows, WvW, and zonewide wherever a Living Story-related event is occurring. In Heart of the Mists, enable it so people can test PvP builds. Make a specific area for this so it doesn’t interfere with the current NPC build testing spots; maybe a small arena where the underwater training dummies are?
As an aside, there’s enough incentive to keep using arenas for this purpose because of the rewards given. HotM duels are strictly to test things, after all.

Implementation: How it looks.

Players with a duel flag on can have a small icon next to their name. I was thinking the guild emblem would be nice, but that might crowd the screen too much, and most people might just turn it on to display their guild proudly.

Players participating in a duel should appear to be non-hostile to spectators. The standard name colors might work, but maybe a new name color would be nice, so that it’s clear that they won’t be recieving healing, boons,condition removal, or combo field effects. A “Currently Dueling” icon would be nice. For 1v1, it could be an icon with the “source” labelled as the opponent, and for team freefights, maybe “Team Duel” with the source being their team’s color. This… might be less logical due to inconsistent application, though.

As a player currently dueling, everything works like in PvP. Bad guys are red, good guys are blue/orange. Direct the painful side of your weapon towards the guys that are red until they stop moving.

That’s all I got. Hope I sparked some brainstorming, at least.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Please respect that I don’t want to have to deal with the bullkitten that a lot of those open world duelers bring with them, and having a simple ‘decline’ option is not the answer to the issues many of us are concerned about.

I’m curious about the abuse or issues several people vaguely point at without any concrete examples. it’s always easy to say: no, the feature is bad because it can be abused. If you think it can be abused, please make some more substantial examples. taking the precautions I mentioned I see no way to abuse it in any way actually.
yes, harassment still exists, with or without dueling, nothing changes. if someone wants to harass you, he already can – potentially forever, because reporting doesn’t work and mailing ANet doesn’t seem to help in all cases.

also: ‘please respect that I want this feature and people who don’t just want to stop me from having fun’ ? pretty useless in terms of an argument, right? personally, I think that your wording was terrible and rather misleading – as if you were some oppressed minority begging for respect. but that might just be what arrived at my side due to language barriers. in any case, please elaborate the concerns you have, I’d like to hear them (maybe this time with a bit more factual wording)

VOLKON.1290:

The open world PvE area simply isn’t designed for dueling, it’s non-competitive at the very core.

leaderboards.
pve already is one giant competition, if you want it to be, yet you can simply ignore it as most people do. adding dueling will not force you to partake in them either. where is the difference? costume brawl is already a pvp experience, most daily activities (accessed from: PVE) involve fighting or competing with other players (except maybe the bell choir during christmas, but even there we had scores).
so no, the pve portion of the game is not inherently non-competitive, it’s quite the opposite if you look at the options. you can make it completely non-competitive by ignoring those options, but the design itself is clear.

that aside: what’s the point? even if it were non-competitive, I don’t see how this has anything to do with adding a new optional feature. I think most people on this thread advocating a dueling feature, apart from a few exceptions, already clearly said they want it completely optional and blockable.

Tom Gore.4035:

It was not an argument on the matter itself. It was an argument against people using “most people want this” when they mean “I want this and I think some other do, too”. Don’t use numbers you don’t have.

interesting. even if this was your intention, you still used it as an attack (calling it an argument would be a glorification) against adding a dueling feature, when you just as well could’ve pointed out the incorectness of the method of argumentation on both sides and let it be – and I wouldn’t have called you out on it in that case.

Oranisagu.3706:

interesting. even if this was your intention, you still used it as an attack (calling it an argument would be a glorification) against adding a dueling feature, when you just as well could’ve pointed out the incorectness of the method of argumentation on both sides and let it be – and I wouldn’t have called you out on it in that case.

I’d say calling any Internet forum thread an argument would be a glorification. It’s called sarcasm and before you climb even higher in your ivory tower I know sarcasm has no place in serious arguments (and we come back to my first sentence).

Oranisagu, the biggest reason people haven’t cited specific examples of abuse is because discussing other games in this forum is against the forum rules. Even without such specific examples though, I believe it can be safely assumed that at least most of the people (myself included) have been victims of said dueling abuse at one point or another. As I and many others have said, there is nothing inherently wrong with dueling, but the only true safeguard from abuse and constant spamming is to keep out of PvE. Set aside a space in LA, The Black Citadel, or any city map, or make it an aspect of PvP where people can use their PvE gear, but having it in open world is a disaster waiting to happen.

Berelious.3290:

having it in open world is a disaster waiting to happen.

Disaster?? For who? O.o The ones questing around then suddenly two savage barbaric players duelling killing the mobs in the way with their aoes and brutal attacks???

C’mon…

pupi.2465:

Berelious.3290:

having it in open world is a disaster waiting to happen.

Disaster?? For who? O.o The ones questing around then suddenly two savage barbaric players duelling killing the mobs in the way with their aoes and brutal attacks???

C’mon…

Actually that would be kinda helpful… but not the disaster I was referring to.

Berelious.3290:

Oranisagu, the biggest reason people haven’t cited specific examples of abuse is because discussing other games in this forum is against the forum rules. Even without such specific examples though, I believe it can be safely assumed that at least most of the people (myself included) have been victims of said dueling abuse at one point or another. As I and many others have said, there is nothing inherently wrong with dueling, but the only true safeguard from abuse and constant spamming is to keep out of PvE. Set aside a space in LA, The Black Citadel, or any city map, or make it an aspect of PvP where people can use their PvE gear, but having it in open world is a disaster waiting to happen.

ah sorry, I was asking with the suggested anti-abuse systems in mind, not in terms of free for all. yes, obviously if everybody can just challenge someone else and they have no way of denying this challenge, it would be a horrible feature and I wouldn’t want such an implementation either.
my question though remains, what are the concerns if the following prerequisites are met:

• option to disable or ask (defaults to disabled, which does not even display a message)
• duel invitation can only be sent once every 30 seconds for each player (even if they auto-decline)
• ingame reporting options for harassment (currently only works via email)

as a kid I’ve been ganked in ultima online and other games numerous times and detested any form of pvp for a long time because of this. only in gw2 I tried it again and found it to be pretty fun. I still think any form of pvp must be completely optional (which is why I hate the implementation obsidian sanctum. they pretty much ruined one of the best jumping puzzles by forcing pvp on players), but I see no reason to exclude pvp interaction from pve maps if the mentioned safeguards are in place.

I really can’t see any disasters waiting to happen and find it a bit over the top to state the only working safeguard were to disallow it completely. by extension, this would also mean we have to remove wvw because someone could accidently press b, click a borderland and be thrown into a pvp area. in fact, wvw is more of a danger if dueling would be disabled by default.

ps: as I understand it, you may explain basic mechanics of other games for the sake of an argument, just not mention their names. I ignored this completely because I assumed mentioning a classic who shaped the genre probably isn’t that bad as naming a competitor.

Berelious.3290:

pupi.2465:

Berelious.3290:

having it in open world is a disaster waiting to happen.

Disaster?? For who? O.o The ones questing around then suddenly two savage barbaric players duelling killing the mobs in the way with their aoes and brutal attacks???

C’mon…

Actually that would be kinda helpful… but not the disaster I was referring to.

So, the disaster would be Players getting annoyed by Duel request spamm? what about the auto-denial option? and in the case of that “kiddo” type player jumping and yelling “Chicken Chicken won’t duel me, You noobb you nooob” /ignore.

I get your concern, but i think duelling in open world won’t affect any pve player, it will only add one more feature to the game, that won’t hurt anyone’s gameplay.

pupi.2465:

Berelious.3290:

pupi.2465:

Berelious.3290:

having it in open world is a disaster waiting to happen.

Disaster?? For who? O.o The ones questing around then suddenly two savage barbaric players duelling killing the mobs in the way with their aoes and brutal attacks???

C’mon…

Actually that would be kinda helpful… but not the disaster I was referring to.

So, the disaster would be Players getting annoyed by Duel request spamm? what about the auto-denial option? and in the case of that “kiddo” type player jumping and yelling “Chicken Chicken won’t duel me, You noobb you nooob” /ignore.

I get your concern, but i think duelling in open world won’t affect any pve player, it will only add one more feature to the game, that won’t hurt anyone’s gameplay.

Auto-denial would be a good feature, but honestly it doesn’t go far enough. Also, the ignore/report option doesn’t either, the reason being that with the level of abuse that I’ve seen in past games, PvE players would be having to block dozens of whispers/spams per day, which is greatly detrimental to game play, and would in fact drive off more than a few players. This is why I feel that if such a thing is implemented it would do better in it’s own arena, so that the regular PvE players can be left alone.

Berelious.3290:

pupi.2465:

Berelious.3290:

pupi.2465:

Berelious.3290:

having it in open world is a disaster waiting to happen.

Disaster?? For who? O.o The ones questing around then suddenly two savage barbaric players duelling killing the mobs in the way with their aoes and brutal attacks???

C’mon…

Actually that would be kinda helpful… but not the disaster I was referring to.

So, the disaster would be Players getting annoyed by Duel request spamm? what about the auto-denial option? and in the case of that “kiddo” type player jumping and yelling “Chicken Chicken won’t duel me, You noobb you nooob” /ignore.

I get your concern, but i think duelling in open world won’t affect any pve player, it will only add one more feature to the game, that won’t hurt anyone’s gameplay.

Auto-denial would be a good feature, but honestly it doesn’t go far enough. Also, the ignore/report option doesn’t either, the reason being that with the level of abuse that I’ve seen in past games, PvE players would be having to block dozens of whispers/spams per day, which is greatly detrimental to game play, and would in fact drive off more than a few players. This is why I feel that if such a thing is implemented it would do better in it’s own arena, so that the regular PvE players can be left alone.

I remember a phrase from an old mmo out there… " Be kind and polite to other players, so you can be treated the same way, otherwise, you will get a bad reputation".

Unfortunately, there are many ppl that behind a PC screen, will act with bad behavior just because of the fact its a virtual world, and no one can really see them, so they can troll/harass freely, i really wish a company that develops MMO’s in future, start to add Fame/Infame System, so that kind of ppl think twice before making their name known as villains. And if so, there will be punishment/pursuit with a reward on their heads.

I really dont like a “safe world” in a MMO, i like the adrenaline, but this is just me, i respect other ppls desire to be left alone, everyone should have what loves the most in a game, so for GW2, if devs made the game not thinking in PK, it won’t have separated (pvp) servers for that, unfornately.

runeblade.7514:

I know for sure that, Dueling should definitely be higher than Living Story.

intra-class trait/weapon balance (aka build diversity) > duelling > living story.

i think it’s appalling that there are still whole weapons/trait lines that are flat-out crap 18 months after release when there’s LS updates every 2 weeks. talk about getting your priorities wrong.

besides, living story is a massive developer resource hog, and it’s not that good anyway.

Make it so duels cannot happen in major cities except maybe LA if it’s rebuilt.

Also 2 separate modes, PK mode and Duels.

PK let people just beat each other to death for the hell of it and allows for open world stuff outside of WvW, and duels for those who are testing, practicing, sparing.

key thing for this kind of thing is that there should be NO REWARD. It enforces people to do it for fun.

Berelious.3290:

Auto-denial would be a good feature, but honestly it doesn’t go far enough. Also, the ignore/report option doesn’t either, the reason being that with the level of abuse that I’ve seen in past games, PvE players would be having to block dozens of whispers/spams per day, which is greatly detrimental to game play, and would in fact drive off more than a few players. This is why I feel that if such a thing is implemented it would do better in it’s own arena, so that the regular PvE players can be left alone.

why do you assume people will harass others with constant whispers or other spam if someone doesn’t accept a dueling invitation? most players will have turned it off anyway until they actually want to use it.
if someone wants to annoy others, there are already way too many (and easier) possibilities in place. my server for example has an individual who thinks himself funny by writing like a 12 year old fps gamer (he even wrote a rather long post about how he trolled his server, several guilds etc – the choice of speech was deliberately chosen with that image in mind) and doing everything he can to annoy other players – like spamming siege in keeps to get to the cap, using his commander tag to lure newer players away from the real fights, disrupting wurm runs with constant spam and again use of his commander tag and so on. would he try to abuse a dueling feature? probably. has this anything to do with dueling? no. people who like to grief/troll/harass others will use any and all means they can find, it’s up to ANet to find a way to report this behaviour and then take action if enough reports are filed.
abandoning any feature because it could be used to harass others is not the right way to go. add safeguards to reduce most problems when launching the feature, tune them while it’s life and especially have moderators who actively react to reports and take decisive action and all griefing can be reduced to a minimum.

Oranisagu.3706:

VOLKON.1290:

The open world PvE area simply isn’t designed for dueling, it’s non-competitive at the very core.

leaderboards.
pve already is one giant competition, if you want it to be, yet you can simply ignore it as most people do. adding dueling will not force you to partake in them either. where is the difference? costume brawl is already a pvp experience, most daily activities (accessed from: PVE) involve fighting or competing with other players (except maybe the bell choir during christmas, but even there we had scores).
so no, the pve portion of the game is not inherently non-competitive, it’s quite the opposite if you look at the options. you can make it completely non-competitive by ignoring those options, but the design itself is clear.

that aside: what’s the point? even if it were non-competitive, I don’t see how this has anything to do with adding a new optional feature. I think most people on this thread advocating a dueling feature, apart from a few exceptions, already clearly said they want it completely optional and blockable.

Oh don’t give me that line of guano. Leaderboards are a comparison of how you’re doing compared to others in the non-competitive PvE areas, they have nothing to do with direct conflict in the PvE areas. It’s one thing to show a relative list of achievement points and something completely different (and more complex) to change the code of the entire PvE area to take into account other players no longer automatically being considered allies, what with cross-profession combos, interactions with events and npcs, etc. You add a completely unnecessary layer of complexity and in doing so add a whole new level of potential problems, bugs, etc. The PvE area is coded to be non-competitive. You’re talking about redesigning a huge section of the game, not simply comparing statistics.

Vanthian.9267:

Jamais vu.5284:

Nice strawman!

Nice use of term most of you don’t really know.

I neither distorted the original point of the argument nor hyper inflated the point. I merely pointed out that in most mmos with open world dueling it comes down to high levels fully buffed requesting duels repeatedly from low levels. I did not claim all of them do it, nor did I claim that duels in their entirety are bad.

You do not know what a strawman argument is judging by your response. It has nothing to do with distorting original points or hyperinflating others.
You attacked some fiction of PvPers you created in your head. You attacked a strawman.
It’s a really boring rheotircal “technique”, you know. You can so very easily dismiss it. It’s like saying all PvErs are braindead achievement grinders. Which of course isn’t true and doesn’t even warrant a serious response. Which is the reason why you’re getting ignored in this thread.

VOLKON.1290:

The PvE area is coded to be non-competitive. You’re talking about redesigning a huge section of the game, not simply comparing statistics.

Costume duelling works fine though.

don’t mention it, he probably thought he could gloss over that, it’s only been mentioned several times ;-) so much for ‘line of guano’

as a programmer I know some small changes can be incredibly complex to achieve. but there are also circumstances where seemingly large changes can be made very easily, if the core system has been designed well enough. rule of thumb to not look ignorant: don’t use the argument it’s to complex if you don’t know either way for sure. it’s certainly a valid concern, but not an argument – no matter how confidently you try to state it.

there are indications this wouldn’t necessarily have to be such a huge change as some would like us to believe. we already know they can change factions of characters on the fly. i.e. two npc’s which are ‘green’ to the player can be fighting each other. some red mobs attach each other, some don’t.
it’s very possible they didn’t need to change core systems at all for making players able to attack each other, only change the faction their character belongs to for the duration of the duel.

the concern about events sounds more probable to me though. any kind of (stray) hit to or from mobs should probably break the duel up immediately to avoid abuse.

scerevisiae.1972:

runeblade.7514:

I know for sure that, Dueling should definitely be higher than Living Story.

intra-class trait/weapon balance (aka build diversity) > duelling > living story.

i think it’s appalling that there are still whole weapons/trait lines that are flat-out crap 18 months after release when there’s LS updates every 2 weeks. talk about getting your priorities wrong.

besides, living story is a massive developer resource hog, and it’s not that good anyway.

I disagree.

Dueling is a one time implementation.Weapon balance is a long and slow continous implementation to get right.

7 players will say that this skill is OP. 1 person will say that it isn’t and that the 7 other players should learn2play. Who is right?

The majority vs the one who actually used the skill? Devs have to take a closer look into it and cannot make rash judgement.

After making a balance decision, it will affect every other skills and build. Then people will cry about skills being underpowered and overpowered. How long should I wait for dueling?

Oranisagu.3706:

I’m curious about the abuse or issues several people vaguely point at without any concrete examples. it’s always easy to say: no, the feature is bad because it can be abused. If you think it can be abused, please make some more substantial examples. taking the precautions I mentioned I see no way to abuse it in any way actually.
yes, harassment still exists, with or without dueling, nothing changes. if someone wants to harass you, he already can – potentially forever, because reporting doesn’t work and mailing ANet doesn’t seem to help in all cases.

I’ve given actual examples in the various other threads on this topic.

But how about being on a new character, minding my own business, and having a max level character follow me around the entire zone spamming duel requests, even though I decline every time. Going so far as to kill all the kitten I needed to do the quests I was trying to do so i could no actually progress with my leveling until I relocated elsewhere.

Or having someone harrass me via pm about how much of a sorry kitten I was because I wouldn’t accept a dual request. Then after ignoring him, has his friends keep it up for him. Taking it into the general chat, where other like minded kittens decide to join him until I put them all on ignore. Doesn’t stop them from following me around and continuing to harrass me through stealing my kills and my various gathering though.

And that’s just two of several examples I have from my personal experience. I realize not all people are like this. I realize that there are people like this already in the game, but I don’t want to give them any more tools or reasons to aggravate me or others that just aren’t interested.

also: ‘please respect that I want this feature and people who don’t just want to stop me from having fun’ ? pretty useless in terms of an argument, right? personally, I think that your wording was terrible and rather misleading – as if you were some oppressed minority begging for respect. but that might just be what arrived at my side due to language barriers. in any case, please elaborate the concerns you have, I’d like to hear them (maybe this time with a bit more factual wording)

It was a simple ‘I respect that you want this feature, please respect that I don’t" statement. Based on the various previous threads on this exact topic, those of us that don’t want this feature get treated quite poorly and without respect. Goes both ways in some cases; however, I was simply highlighting that I do understand that people want the feature, and in a sense why. I was simply asking for the same in return, understanding and tolerance.

Since, ya know, I’m quite tired of being called a ‘carebear’ or a ‘scaredy cat’ or simple a bad player because that’s not how I choose to play.

From the GW2 Beta Event Jon Petersen confirmed they want to add open world dueling. From the chatlog:

Now with mega server technology, open world dueling is my most requested feature!

It can be quite immersion breaking I guess.

The overarching tone to the PvE in this game is that players are joining forces to protect Tyria and fight against a common threat, so seeing players beat the crud out of each other is kind of contradictory. Especially if it happens in the middle if a metaevent (and it will).

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Oranisagu.3706:

I’m curious about the abuse or issues several people vaguely point at without any concrete examples. it’s always easy to say: no, the feature is bad because it can be abused. If you think it can be abused, please make some more substantial examples. taking the precautions I mentioned I see no way to abuse it in any way actually.
yes, harassment still exists, with or without dueling, nothing changes. if someone wants to harass you, he already can – potentially forever, because reporting doesn’t work and mailing ANet doesn’t seem to help in all cases.

I’ve given actual examples in the various other threads on this topic.

But how about being on a new character, minding my own business, and having a max level character follow me around the entire zone spamming duel requests, even though I decline every time. Going so far as to kill all the kitten I needed to do the quests I was trying to do so i could no actually progress with my leveling until I relocated elsewhere.

Or having someone harrass me via pm about how much of a sorry kitten I was because I wouldn’t accept a dual request. Then after ignoring him, has his friends keep it up for him. Taking it into the general chat, where other like minded kittens decide to join him until I put them all on ignore. Doesn’t stop them from following me around and continuing to harrass me through stealing my kills and my various gathering though.

And that’s just two of several examples I have from my personal experience. I realize not all people are like this. I realize that there are people like this already in the game, but I don’t want to give them any more tools or reasons to aggravate me or others that just aren’t interested.

also: ‘please respect that I want this feature and people who don’t just want to stop me from having fun’ ? pretty useless in terms of an argument, right? personally, I think that your wording was terrible and rather misleading – as if you were some oppressed minority begging for respect. but that might just be what arrived at my side due to language barriers. in any case, please elaborate the concerns you have, I’d like to hear them (maybe this time with a bit more factual wording)

It was a simple ‘I respect that you want this feature, please respect that I don’t" statement. Based on the various previous threads on this exact topic, those of us that don’t want this feature get treated quite poorly and without respect. Goes both ways in some cases; however, I was simply highlighting that I do understand that people want the feature, and in a sense why. I was simply asking for the same in return, understanding and tolerance.

Since, ya know, I’m quite tired of being called a ‘carebear’ or a ‘scaredy cat’ or simple a bad player because that’s not how I choose to play.

To me, what is really aggrivating about this sort of argument is that it’s rooted in griefing behavior, and has little to do with dueling features itself.

You could make the argument that we should disable emotes or attacking freely without a target because it happened twice once that someone ran around me naked and spammed emotes.

That’s not a valid argument not to add emotes. You have to be realistic and fair here. I respect that you don’t want this feature, but barring others from it, is just wrong.