Guild Wars 2

Jamais vu.5284:

VOLKON.1290:

The PvE area is coded to be non-competitive. You’re talking about redesigning a huge section of the game, not simply comparing statistics.

Costume duelling works fine though.

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt with regards to realizing they’re not the same thing.

Xae Isareth.1364:

It can be quite immersion breaking I guess.

The overarching tone to the PvE in this game is that players are joining forces to protect Tyria and fight against a common threat, so seeing players beat the crud out of each other is kind of contradictory. Especially if it happens in the middle if a metaevent (and it will).

You could just have a duel not be immune to PvE mobs, only players. so if anyone chooses to duel in the middle of something bigger going on, they will be open to attacks by surrounding mobs.

It’s immersion breaking when people just stand around in a crowd in the middle of a fight too. There are limits to what people can demand in “immersion”, IMO.

Sad Swordfish.9743:

From the GW2 Beta Event Jon Petersen confirmed they want to add open world dueling. From the chatlog:

Now with mega server technology, open world dueling is my most requested feature!

In world dueling, not open world dueling. An arena type setting would cover this nicely without going against the cooperative world concept.

Sad Swordfish.9743:

To me, what is really aggrivating about this sort of argument is that it’s rooted in griefing behavior, and has little to do with dueling features itself.

You could make the argument that we should disable emotes or attacking freely without a target because it happened twice once that someone ran around me naked and spammed emotes.

That’s not a valid argument not to add emotes. You have to be realistic and fair here. I respect that you don’t want this feature, but barring others from it, is just wrong.

But neither do you give those types of players more tools to grief with. There has to be some sort of balance.

Like I’ve said before, I’m not necessarily against dueling. I would simply prefer if they didn’t stick it in the open world. Hell, I don’t even like costume brawl in the open world, because the kitten talk it generates requires me turn off map chat, when I shouldn’t have to.

Now, could there be ways around some of this griefing? Potentially. Like I suggested, maybe split pve and pvp servers out, then people that don’t want dueling can hang out on the pve, and people that do can hang out on the pvp. Perfect solution? No. Someone is going to get their toes stepped on no matter what happens. However, that is no reason to simply dismiss those of us with concerns as though we don’t exist or don’t have valid points.

As for your emotes comparison, actually griefing is exactly why we don’t have several that we did have in GW1. And why you can’t actually ‘target’ players with most of them. To curb that griefing. It was a design decision the devs made for exactly that reason.

VOLKON.1290:

Sad Swordfish.9743:

From the GW2 Beta Event Jon Petersen confirmed they want to add open world dueling. From the chatlog:

Now with mega server technology, open world dueling is my most requested feature!

In world dueling, not open world dueling. An arena type setting would cover this nicely without going against the cooperative world concept.

Read it again. He means open world by “in world”. The first thing he talks about is “empty servers, pvp ones”, thats the system that currently exist. cheers:)

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sad Swordfish.9743:

To me, what is really aggrivating about this sort of argument is that it’s rooted in griefing behavior, and has little to do with dueling features itself.

You could make the argument that we should disable emotes or attacking freely without a target because it happened twice once that someone ran around me naked and spammed emotes.

That’s not a valid argument not to add emotes. You have to be realistic and fair here. I respect that you don’t want this feature, but barring others from it, is just wrong.

But neither do you give those types of players more tools to grief with. There has to be some sort of balance.

Like I’ve said before, I’m not necessarily against dueling. I would simply prefer if they didn’t stick it in the open world. Hell, I don’t even like costume brawl in the open world, because the kitten talk it generates requires me turn off map chat, when I shouldn’t have to.

Now, could there be ways around some of this griefing? Potentially. Like I suggested, maybe split pve and pvp servers out, then people that don’t want dueling can hang out on the pve, and people that do can hang out on the pvp. Perfect solution? No. Someone is going to get their toes stepped on no matter what happens. However, that is no reason to simply dismiss those of us with concerns as though we don’t exist or don’t have valid points.

As for your emotes comparison, actually griefing is exactly why we don’t have several that we did have in GW1. And why you can’t actually ‘target’ players with most of them. To curb that griefing. It was a design decision the devs made for exactly that reason.

You’re using a strawman here.

Indicating that you have to turn off map chat because of costume brawl is simply hyperbole and has nothing to do with reality, only your stereotypical fixation on what you call griefing.

You don’t understand what I meant. by your definition it’s griefing for me to see someone spam their emotes in my vicinity. In my optical field of view. Just as it breaks my immersion by someone doing AOE spells in the middle of a city for no reason.

But these are not tools for griefing. And neither is dueling. That has nothing to do with dismissing your views, simply stating that your shoe-fits-all-ideology is outlandish and hard to take seriously.

Sad Swordfish.9743:

Indicating that you have to turn off map chat because of costume brawl is simply hyperbole and has nothing to do with reality, only your stereotypical fixation on what you call griefing.

Lawl. Of course, I must be blowing things out of proportion to suit my needs. “I haven’t seen it, so it obviously doesn’t exist.” Got it.

You don’t understand what I meant. by your definition it’s griefing for me to see someone spam their emotes in my vicinity. In my optical field of view. Just as it breaks my immersion by someone doing AOE spells in the middle of a city for no reason.

Actually no, this does not fit my definition of griefing. Perhaps a little annoying sure, but not griefing.

But these are not tools for griefing. And neither is dueling. That has nothing to do with dismissing your views, simply stating that your shoe-fits-all-ideology is outlandish and hard to take seriously.

I did not say it was designed as a tool for griefing, only that it would be used as such. Obviously not by all, just as emotes were not used by all to grief others in GW1 either. However enough concern exists to warrant due consideration of that plausibility.

Sad Swordfish.9743:

VOLKON.1290:

Sad Swordfish.9743:

From the GW2 Beta Event Jon Petersen confirmed they want to add open world dueling. From the chatlog:

Now with mega server technology, open world dueling is my most requested feature!

In world dueling, not open world dueling. An arena type setting would cover this nicely without going against the cooperative world concept.

Read it again. He means open world by “in world”. The first thing he talks about is “empty servers, pvp ones”, thats the system that currently exist. cheers:)

Right. He’s talking about the sPvP servers that people can use (and now there are private servers which work even better). In world can be as simple as going to Southsun to a Consortium run dueling arena (as opposed as having to leave the world to go to the Mists).

I don’t understand, what’s the problem with Custom Arenas?

I myself have one and I only need to buy a single token to keep it open, I’m not feeding it daily since it’s only used when there are guild PvP tournaments or someone wants to DUEL MEH

The arenas are great, but it would suffice if they used the arena on the Black Citadel.

Anyone made any drinking games for how many times per week we see something Anet won’t put in the game? Dueling? Mounts? Giant wings?

ghost.3208:

I don’t understand, what’s the problem with Custom Arenas?

I myself have one and I only need to buy a single token to keep it open, I’m not feeding it daily since it’s only used when there are guild PvP tournaments or someone wants to DUEL MEH

The arenas are great, but it would suffice if they used the arena on the Black Citadel.

for me, and probably others, the reason those won’t work is simple: the only time I actually want to duel is when I’m standing around waiting for something to happen (wurm, for the most part, but also LS stuff on a timer is a good example). dueling in PVP arenas (btw, different gear/builds/possibilities) or dedicated places would still not allow me to ask if someone of the other 149 players waiting around would like duel to do something fun while waiting. the map is already at hardcap, so if I leave I’ll not be able to rejoin. currently, I just watch movies and move my character every 15 minutes or so. doesn’t that break immersion more than any kind of optional ingame activity?

if I’m not currently waiting for something and do want to pvp, I either go to the heart of the mists and queue up or go wvw anyway. both take up quite some time though, there’s still no quick and easy way to have a friendly fight.

Sinbold.8723:

I just may get flamed for bringing up GW1 and Guild Halls, but here goes….

Guild Halls had the very cool feature that you could invite anyone to them and create a battle, whether 1v1, or whatever, up to the max party size. The idea was that you could practice your GvG skills in your hall and test PvP builds. If you wanted to duel someone who wasn’t in your guild, you just invited them to guest in your Hall and you were all set. Perhaps the devs might want to consign dueling to the shelf that holds Guild Halls, and make it a function of that. That way, we can all avoid that person or persons that flame people who decline the invitation to duel.

This.

Firm vote against allowing open world dueling…..it alters the already established co-op flavor of the open world game. With the plans laid out by the Megaserver project, it seems obvious they want to reinforce this, not destroy it.

That being said, I have no issue with a dedicated instance area that allows dueling, but I do not condone a huge amount of design resources be directed at this development (but that’s not our call). As long as I never have to enter the area, more power to you.

This area wold make much more sense under the WvW sphere of control as I venture 90% of the players that want this are already WvW players. I’m not sure why this would even be associated with the PvE open world at all.

Brother Grimm.5176:

I’m not sure why this would even be associated with the PvE open world at all.

you’re not even reading the last few posts before you reply with stuff already discussed? sigh

Brother Grimm.5176:

Firm vote against allowing open world dueling…..it alters the already established co-op flavor of the open world game. With the plans laid out by the Megaserver project, it seems obvious they want to reinforce this, not destroy it.

That being said, I have no issue with a dedicated instance area that allows dueling, but I do not condone a huge amount of design resources be directed at this development (but that’s not our call). As long as I never have to enter the area, more power to you.

This area wold make much more sense under the WvW sphere of control as I venture 90% of the players that want this are already WvW players. I’m not sure why this would even be associated with the PvE open world at all.

Although I’m inclined to agree, I could see it being tied to the open world under control of, say, the Consortium in Southsun. To entertain the masses they set up a dueling arena area with all the bells and whistles – people could post or accept general challenges on a board (“Mesmer looking to take on all comers!” for example), people could create private challenges with someone specific, even tournaments could be organized and held as events with prizes. Instead of having the crappy open world style dueling (yes, my opinion) you could create an area that builds an entire dueling community.

You can ALREADY DUAL. Set up a personal PvP arena and invite the person. Done.

Open world duals are just too distracting.

VOLKON.1290:

Although I’m inclined to agree, I could see it being tied to the open world under control of, say, the Consortium in Southsun. To entertain the masses they set up a dueling arena area with all the bells and whistles – people could post or accept general challenges on a board (“Mesmer looking to take on all comers!” for example), people could create private challenges with someone specific, even tournaments could be organized and held as events with prizes. Instead of having the crappy open world style dueling (yes, my opinion) you could create an area that builds an entire dueling community.

But thats what those people don’t want. They want to do it everywhere. If you are in the bank sorting your staff .. they must have the right to duel right there before you just to annoy you. You want to do some crafting ? Fine .. but people of course need to duel directly before your nose.

So even with outodecline and everything else, i want at least also the option to simply make every dueller invisible and noiseless.

I want dueling, i hate the pvp system, i wish there were other types of pvp and i wish we could duel in the open world.

Beldin.5498:

VOLKON.1290:

Although I’m inclined to agree, I could see it being tied to the open world under control of, say, the Consortium in Southsun. To entertain the masses they set up a dueling arena area with all the bells and whistles – people could post or accept general challenges on a board (“Mesmer looking to take on all comers!” for example), people could create private challenges with someone specific, even tournaments could be organized and held as events with prizes. Instead of having the crappy open world style dueling (yes, my opinion) you could create an area that builds an entire dueling community.

But thats what those people don’t want. They want to do it everywhere. If you are in the bank sorting your staff .. they must have the right to duel right there before you just to annoy you. You want to do some crafting ? Fine .. but people of course need to duel directly before your nose.

So even with outodecline and everything else, i want at least also the option to simply make every dueller invisible and noiseless.

since you seem to like to overstate things, please open a thread for them to remove all player instruments (since people can use them to annoy you while crafting or standing at the bank and they’re not even muted by default), transformation tonics as some people like to walk around as spiders, disturbing arachnophobic people, delete all legendaries as their glowing effects are such a distraction and remove all armor except one type (which can’t be taken off) so you don’t have to see anything potentially displeasing to your eyes.

I mean really, what was the point of your reply? its very obvious we need a better reporting option for harassment, with or without dueling, it’s a core problem in any multiplayer game that ANet needs to find a solution for, blocking features for the potential of harassment makes no sense at all.

Nothing was more annoying (and do mean NOTHING) than trying to go about my business in WoW and getting harassed by some fool in a city to duel over and over and over again. i had one guy literally follow me around and kill steal in an area and hit all the harvesting nodes just because i kept ignoring and turning down the duel requests.

If there is one thing I never want to see in this game it will be this feature. When i want to fight others I will go into PvP or WvW and gleefully fight others. In PvE it just has no place.

Oranisagu.3706:

I mean really, what was the point of your reply? its very obvious we need a better reporting option for harassment, with or without dueling, it’s a core problem in any multiplayer game that ANet needs to find a solution for, blocking features for the potential of harassment makes no sense at all.

And whats the point of the whole thread, and all the other threads about Open-PvP and Duelling in a game where it was not implemented for some reasons and the majority of players (imho) simply don’t want it ?

Also i have very very seldom beeing annyoed in any MMO by people who played instruments, but the whole Open-PvP and Duelling thing is constantly a playground of players who simply want to harass other players and who don’t understand the meaning of the word “no”.

Oranisagu.3706:

…..
I mean really, what was the point of your reply? its very obvious we need a better reporting option for harassment, with or without dueling, it’s a core problem in any multiplayer game that ANet needs to find a solution for, blocking features for the potential of harassment makes no sense at all.

I don’t think he was implying that was the ONLY reason to not support this “feature”, just that it IS an issue that many players (note MANY more than would want to DUEL) would find endlessly annoying.

BTW, I would FULLY support your petition to ban instruments….(THAT is a worthy cause if I ever “heard” one….)

The bottom line on this issue is that you need to prove to ANet that there are enough players that want this (in the game….not on the this forum) for them to consider it feasible to assign resources to. I don’t think that is going to happen (and for the reasons I stated….players that would want this are already killing other players in WvW and PvP).

Long story cut short is the FACT, 1v1 combat IS PvP so keep it seperate from PvE, plain and simple to understand, even my pre-teen grandkids know and realizes this.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sad Swordfish.9743:

Indicating that you have to turn off map chat because of costume brawl is simply hyperbole and has nothing to do with reality, only your stereotypical fixation on what you call griefing.

Lawl. Of course, I must be blowing things out of proportion to suit my needs. “I haven’t seen it, so it obviously doesn’t exist.” Got it.

You don’t understand what I meant. by your definition it’s griefing for me to see someone spam their emotes in my vicinity. In my optical field of view. Just as it breaks my immersion by someone doing AOE spells in the middle of a city for no reason.

Actually no, this does not fit my definition of griefing. Perhaps a little annoying sure, but not griefing.

But these are not tools for griefing. And neither is dueling. That has nothing to do with dismissing your views, simply stating that your shoe-fits-all-ideology is outlandish and hard to take seriously.

I did not say it was designed as a tool for griefing, only that it would be used as such. Obviously not by all, just as emotes were not used by all to grief others in GW1 either. However enough concern exists to warrant due consideration of that plausibility.

Right,

So using your logic because it happened twice in a different game, we should ban free form combat in cities, emotes and whatever else. You might find it annoying but I find it griefing.

/ Do you see were I am going with this? With this self-imprecating victim mentality you can argue that anything that is just a nuisance to others, is griefing to you. Especially when you connect it to different things like walking around harassing people, kill stealing (not even possible in this game).

I think it’s fine they add a no-duel request options, but to use it as argument to not have it in at all, based on the criteria of what happened in other games. It too has happened to me in WoW, but it never happened to me in the majority of MMOs that I have played, and I dont really think it’s the duel features fault. Just bad people. At any tool can be basically be argued that it’s a tool for griefing and annoyances.

Don’t add new LFG tools, because I was once spammed and harrased in WoW by someone who kept inviting me, and then he followed me. Or don’t add the abillity to add guild invites due to the same thing.

It’s just a silly argument, really.

Brother Grimm.5176:

I don’t think he was implying that was the ONLY reason to not support this “feature”, just that it IS an issue that many players (note MANY more than would want to DUEL) would find endlessly annoying.

BTW, I would FULLY support your petition to ban instruments….(THAT is a worthy cause if I ever “heard” one….)

The bottom line on this issue is that you need to prove to ANet that there are enough players that want this (in the game….not on the this forum) for them to consider it feasible to assign resources to. I don’t think that is going to happen (and for the reasons I stated….players that would want this are already killing other players in WvW and PvP).

so you’d like to take instruments from those people who only use them in settings where others want to hear them and never harassed anyone with them? again, it’s a question of how it’s used – the feature itself is not the problem, it only shows the symptom of people liking to grief without anyone to stop them. the same holds true for dueling. if those who harass others would be dealt with, you wouldn’t get spammed dueling requests or the same high-pitched note at.

I don’t have to prove anything, it’s up to ANet to decide if a feature that gets multiple threads each week (as far as I can tell mostly from different posters) could be a good addition to the game. if you want to prove me wrong (even though I never said a majority wants this feature, but maybe you’d feel better thinking so, since you already implied it), start a strawpoll and send people in game and from the forums to it. after a few hundred thousand votes it should give a good image of how many people really want a feature like that.
if you just like anecdotal evidence like everybody else here thinks is enough if it fits their opinion: in a wvw centric guild I was once in, just about every active player wanted a dueling feature (1v1 up to 5v5s in their pve armor/builds, and not pvp). this is about as statistically relevant as your claim the majority doesn’t want it.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Long story cut short is the FACT, 1v1 combat IS PvP so keep it seperate from PvE, plain and simple to understand, even my pre-teen grandkids know and realizes this.

and your answer to costume brawl? doesn’t count as pvp ? it’s exactly the same, a combat interaction between players (not environment), each one has an amount of hitpoints and there’s even a score and a floating crown for the winner, while the other one gets knocked out.

Neural.1824:

runeblade.7514:

cranked.3812:

Please don’t waste the time on this devs. I know some people want this, but there are so many things in the game that actually need fixing/attention long before something else is added that, I believe, a small percentage of people want. We already have pvp areas that are great for fighting each other.

And dueling is one of those important things. Which a large majority want.

You still have provided no proof that a “large majority” want dueling.

Please provide the following:
-The number of people who play Guild Wars 2
-the number of people who want dueling

Along with citation for both sources of information.

There is no way for anyone to confirm this either way, but it is without a doubt one of the most debated subjects on this forum, and if you search you can see many very long threads of discussions that have many different people asking it. But even if you counted all of these people it would not even be 10% of all the people inside the game itself. There frankly is no way to say for sure.

jsduke.6537:

No dueling in PVE zones. No thanks. Never.

You want to duel? Go to PvP arenas and duel your heart out. That is what that area is for.

If you don’t like the way dueling works in PvP arenas, then request changes to that part of the game. Don’t bring that crap to PVE.

I think a lot of us love the idea of costume brawl, but the hacked clipping animations and skill lag, keeps it from being very consistent. What people like about duels despite the balance is that it’s practice, not real PvP. You don’t go to a lobby, you don’t have to change anything. Nobody dies. you simply fight down to the last hitpoint.

So, in that aspect it’s also nice for rp guilds and guilds doing guild initiations, and simply adds another way to interacte with players. It feels limiting that you can’t interacte in the main world. for example in my guild we do quaggan guild races, and all sorts of things. So for us, having the tools to play meaningfully with each other is much better.

the sPvP area is real pvp and doesnt fit this. people want to field test their trats, and stats on others, and not die. it removes the seriousness of real sPvP.

I agree that pvp and pve should be seperate, but I don’t think duels are real pvp. Its not more pvp than costume brawl is. nobody dies, there is no win or loss. you simply fight to 1 hp.

VOLKON.1290:

Sad Swordfish.9743:

VOLKON.1290:

Sad Swordfish.9743:

From the GW2 Beta Event Jon Petersen confirmed they want to add open world dueling. From the chatlog:

Now with mega server technology, open world dueling is my most requested feature!

In world dueling, not open world dueling. An arena type setting would cover this nicely without going against the cooperative world concept.

Read it again. He means open world by “in world”. The first thing he talks about is “empty servers, pvp ones”, thats the system that currently exist. cheers:)

Right. He’s talking about the sPvP servers that people can use (and now there are private servers which work even better). In world can be as simple as going to Southsun to a Consortium run dueling arena (as opposed as having to leave the world to go to the Mists).

But Southsun is part of the open world. It’s an open world map.

Sad Swordfish.9743:

Right,

So using your logic because it happened twice in a different game, we should ban free form combat in cities, emotes and whatever else. You might find it annoying but I find it griefing.

/ Do you see were I am going with this? With this self-imprecating victim mentality you can argue that anything that is just a nuisance to others, is griefing to you. Especially when you connect it to different things like walking around harassing people, kill stealing (not even possible in this game).

I think it’s fine they add a no-duel request options, but to use it as argument to not have it in at all, based on the criteria of what happened in other games. It too has happened to me in WoW, but it never happened to me in the majority of MMOs that I have played, and I dont really think it’s the duel features fault. Just bad people. At any tool can be basically be argued that it’s a tool for griefing and annoyances.

Don’t add new LFG tools, because I was once spammed and harrased in WoW by someone who kept inviting me, and then he followed me. Or don’t add the abillity to add guild invites due to the same thing.

It’s just a silly argument, really.

So…. just because I only cite 2 incidents (even though I stated it was two of many) it only happened twice. Check. How about all the other incidents cited by other players in the numerous other posts on this exact same topic.

That’s right. You don’t see them, therefore they don’t exist. That’s what’s “silly.” Feel free to keep cherry picking though. It’s not helping your argument at all.

To be honest, the dueling thing might be easier to implement this time around, given that tools to change traits and such are coming up. While it is a nice feature, the main issues that plague here are to what kind of dueling would people like? Would they go for the traditional route of jumping into combat directly? Would there be some map changes, and would those map changes have unintended consequences to do? Would you go the non-traditional route, instead sending players to another instanced map with traits balanced for the game mode?

There’s so many things that you need to account for dueling not just to be a feature, but something people will use.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

So…. just because I only cite 2 incidents (even though I stated it was two of many) it only happened twice. Check. How about all the other incidents cited by other players in the numerous other posts on this exact same topic.

That’s right. You don’t see them, therefore they don’t exist. That’s what’s “silly.” Feel free to keep cherry picking though. It’s not helping your argument at all.

how about the numerous times I’ve already stated it’s a question of dealing with harassment in general and has nothing to do with dueling in specific? if you ignore posts, don’t attack others for ignoring yours (which was already a repetition and has been discussed).

Out of curiosity, wouldn’t RPers be for dueling? Especially for Charr, there’s no better way to settle an in-character argument.

Oranisagu.3706:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

So…. just because I only cite 2 incidents (even though I stated it was two of many) it only happened twice. Check. How about all the other incidents cited by other players in the numerous other posts on this exact same topic.

That’s right. You don’t see them, therefore they don’t exist. That’s what’s “silly.” Feel free to keep cherry picking though. It’s not helping your argument at all.

how about the numerous times I’ve already stated it’s a question of dealing with harassment in general and has nothing to do with dueling in specific? if you ignore posts, don’t attack others for ignoring yours (which was already a repetition and has been discussed).

It’s not effective of me to write on this while not having skimmed the majority of the thread yet, but I’ll bite. What changes to dueling would you like to implement to have incidences of this not happen to people? Would you accept that people on your friend list are the only ones you could invite to duel? But this implies that friend lists are something you do not just take fro granted as some sort of contact book. Would you make it guild-locked? But the problem is that you can’t duel with other people?

The closest to not have you locked down is for the system to have better traps for ‘disruptive’ behavior. Flagging people to be blocked from said features after repeat or valid reports that might not constitute total violations on the Code, but will soon be, could work, with the added problem of manpower on ANet’s part.

Oranisagu.3706:

Brother Grimm.5176:

I don’t think he was implying that was the ONLY reason to not support this “feature”, just that it IS an issue that many players (note MANY more than would want to DUEL) would find endlessly annoying.

BTW, I would FULLY support your petition to ban instruments….(THAT is a worthy cause if I ever “heard” one….)

The bottom line on this issue is that you need to prove to ANet that there are enough players that want this (in the game….not on the this forum) for them to consider it feasible to assign resources to. I don’t think that is going to happen (and for the reasons I stated….players that would want this are already killing other players in WvW and PvP).

so you’d like to take instruments from those people who only use them in settings where others want to hear them and never harassed anyone with them? again, it’s a question of how it’s used – the feature itself is not the problem, it only shows the symptom of people liking to grief without anyone to stop them. the same holds true for dueling. if those who harass others would be dealt with, you wouldn’t get spammed dueling requests or the same high-pitched note at.

I don’t have to prove anything, it’s up to ANet to decide if a feature that gets multiple threads each week (as far as I can tell mostly from different posters) could be a good addition to the game. if you want to prove me wrong (even though I never said a majority wants this feature, but maybe you’d feel better thinking so, since you already implied it), start a strawpoll and send people in game and from the forums to it. after a few hundred thousand votes it should give a good image of how many people really want a feature like that.
if you just like anecdotal evidence like everybody else here thinks is enough if it fits their opinion: in a wvw centric guild I was once in, just about every active player wanted a dueling feature (1v1 up to 5v5s in their pve armor/builds, and not pvp). this is about as statistically relevant as your claim the majority doesn’t want it.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Long story cut short is the FACT, 1v1 combat IS PvP so keep it seperate from PvE, plain and simple to understand, even my pre-teen grandkids know and realizes this.

and your answer to costume brawl? doesn’t count as pvp ? it’s exactly the same, a combat interaction between players (not environment), each one has an amount of hitpoints and there’s even a score and a floating crown for the winner, while the other one gets knocked out.

You are correct and IMO it as well has NO PLACE OR REASON to be included in open world PvE(player vs environment not PvP(player vs player) see the underlined differences, they should have their own place/arena for such things.

I see a lot of comments about harassment. I generally handle such things as I handle them in WoW.

/ignore

Am I oversimplifying the issue? Of course. If anything, I’m kinda irritated that /ignore only blocks some of the bilge that comes out of other players I no longer have an interest in. ( Emotes. Seriously. ;_; )

I think it’s not such a bad thing, so long as there are basic player options to prevent duel spamming.:
Players can choose what level of dueling they want (all challenges, friends only, guild members, etc)
Blocking a player automatically ignores duel requests.
Apply a cooldown on duel requests, whether or not they are accepted. Once per minute should keep most spammers in check from the wait.

I honestly wouldn’t mind the practice and helping friends test out their builds for WvW and PvP, so it’s not a terrible idea, just one that has to be carefully considered.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sad Swordfish.9743:

Right,

So using your logic because it happened twice in a different game, we should ban free form combat in cities, emotes and whatever else. You might find it annoying but I find it griefing.

/ Do you see were I am going with this? With this self-imprecating victim mentality you can argue that anything that is just a nuisance to others, is griefing to you. Especially when you connect it to different things like walking around harassing people, kill stealing (not even possible in this game).

I think it’s fine they add a no-duel request options, but to use it as argument to not have it in at all, based on the criteria of what happened in other games. It too has happened to me in WoW, but it never happened to me in the majority of MMOs that I have played, and I dont really think it’s the duel features fault. Just bad people. At any tool can be basically be argued that it’s a tool for griefing and annoyances.

Don’t add new LFG tools, because I was once spammed and harrased in WoW by someone who kept inviting me, and then he followed me. Or don’t add the abillity to add guild invites due to the same thing.

It’s just a silly argument, really.

So…. just because I only cite 2 incidents (even though I stated it was two of many) it only happened twice. Check. How about all the other incidents cited by other players in the numerous other posts on this exact same topic.

That’s right. You don’t see them, therefore they don’t exist. That’s what’s “silly.” Feel free to keep cherry picking though. It’s not helping your argument at all.

Im not cherry picking, but you are still using straw man here. That doesn’t say anything against the potentially countless of people who enjoy dueling in other games. It might be less than 0,0001% who had these bad experiences.

You might say you have had a lot more than two, and I am not calling you a liar, but I dont personally believe that this stuff happens often. I think you are exxagerating, just like I think you are exxaggerating about having to turn off map chat because of costume brawl.

you’ are being unfair, I think. dueling dont make people do bad things, neither do costume brawl. they don’t incite or raul bad behavior. it’s just an old stigma against anyone who likes pvp.

If anything, dueling is a form of competition (because of no death, and no loss/respawn) that can be described as pvp for people who dont like pvp. its not balanced for it, there is no winner, it doesnt require partitipation. it’s a completely different experience than anything else they could make in spvp.

This game never was, and never will be balanced for 1vs1. Thats the entire point. Just like WvW is inherently unbalanced, the fun stems from empowering the players even though its a mish mash of pvp and pve events in one big zone.

Oranisagu.3706:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

So…. just because I only cite 2 incidents (even though I stated it was two of many) it only happened twice. Check. How about all the other incidents cited by other players in the numerous other posts on this exact same topic.

That’s right. You don’t see them, therefore they don’t exist. That’s what’s “silly.” Feel free to keep cherry picking though. It’s not helping your argument at all.

how about the numerous times I’ve already stated it’s a question of dealing with harassment in general and has nothing to do with dueling in specific? if you ignore posts, don’t attack others for ignoring yours (which was already a repetition and has been discussed).

“its question of dealing with harassment” and from whence does the harassment come? Yes, it boils down to the person doing the harassing, but part of the issue is also enabling them. Giving them things they can use to feed that perversity. Does that (sadly) sometimes mean that kitten gets taken away from the legitimate player? Yup.

Anet has already set the precedent of simply not incorporating things if they feel it can be used too much for griefing. Example: the removal of direct person to person trading. Example: the reduction in allowable, animated emotes and the reduction in the ability to perform an emote on a targeted individual.

Does that make it “right”? “Fair”? Nope.

Even though we can report people for harassing us, and even after being reprimanded (since most don’t get a perma-ban right off), you think that necessarily stops them? Sure, some. For others, only temporarily. It varies from person to person, but what do you expect Anet to do?

You want them to set up in game moderators? Sure, that works for a while….until a few of them let the power go to their head. Didn’t some other game have issues with exactly this?

Shift staff from development into support to handle reports faster?

Develop a program to analyze all behavior and auto-ban people that meet some criteria? Remember how well that worked for bots? Not so well, and it would shift developers off other content.

Or flag accounts for review, potentially creating a back log of work for existing personnel?

There is no ‘easy’ solution.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Oranisagu.3706:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

So…. just because I only cite 2 incidents (even though I stated it was two of many) it only happened twice. Check. How about all the other incidents cited by other players in the numerous other posts on this exact same topic.

That’s right. You don’t see them, therefore they don’t exist. That’s what’s “silly.” Feel free to keep cherry picking though. It’s not helping your argument at all.

how about the numerous times I’ve already stated it’s a question of dealing with harassment in general and has nothing to do with dueling in specific? if you ignore posts, don’t attack others for ignoring yours (which was already a repetition and has been discussed).

“its question of dealing with harassment” and from whence does the harassment come? Yes, it boils down to the person doing the harassing, but part of the issue is also enabling them. Giving them things they can use to feed that perversity. Does that (sadly) sometimes mean that kitten gets taken away from the legitimate player? Yup.

Anet has already set the precedent of simply not incorporating things if they feel it can be used too much for griefing. Example: the removal of direct person to person trading. Example: the reduction in allowable, animated emotes and the reduction in the ability to perform an emote on a targeted individual.

Does that make it “right”? “Fair”? Nope.

Even though we can report people for harassing us, and even after being reprimanded (since most don’t get a perma-ban right off), you think that necessarily stops them? Sure, some. For others, only temporarily. It varies from person to person, but what do you expect Anet to do?

You want them to set up in game moderators? Sure, that works for a while….until a few of them let the power go to their head. Didn’t some other game have issues with exactly this?

Shift staff from development into support to handle reports faster?

Develop a program to analyze all behavior and auto-ban people that meet some criteria? Remember how well that worked for bots? Not so well, and it would shift developers off other content.

Or flag accounts for review, potentially creating a back log of work for existing personnel?

There is no ‘easy’ solution.

Simply allow 1 duel request, and if denied, thats a 15-30 minute wait time before being able to do it again, as well as a no-auto dueling option in option, that is set off by default. Then players who want it will have to go into options and enable it themselves.

Sad Swordfish.9743:

Im not cherry picking, but you are still using straw man here. That doesn’t say anything against the potentially countless of people who enjoy dueling in other games. It might be less than 0,0001% who had these bad experiences.

You know, I know I’ve stated repeatedly that I know not all people are like that. You’re right there are many that have had nothing but good experiences. I’m sure there are some that have had nothing but bad. And some that fall anywhere between those 2 extremes. We don’t have statistics. Nor can we see the future and know exactly how dueling would impact the health of the community in GW2.

You might say you have had a lot more than two, and I am not calling you a liar, but I dont personally believe that this stuff happens often. I think you are exxagerating, just like I think you are exxaggerating about having to turn off map chat because of costume brawl.

You don’t believe this type of behavior happens often, because it doesn’t to you…… Just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t. But hey, I’m just exaggerating.

you’ are being unfair, I think. dueling dont make people do bad things, neither do costume brawl. they don’t incite or raul bad behavior. it’s just an old stigma against anyone who likes pvp.

To be fair, I never said dueling made anyone do anything. I simply said it was a ‘tool’ for certain behaviors. Thus my argument with Oran about “enabling.” Yes, the very basic underlying issue is human behavior. How do you control behavior? By being selective in what you allow and what you don’t. That doesn’t necessarily make it ‘right’ or ‘fair’ for everyone. However, if it means a potentially healthier environment….

If anything, dueling is a form of competition (because of no death, and no loss/respawn) that can be described as pvp for people who dont like pvp. its not balanced for it, there is no winner, it doesnt require partitipation. it’s a completely different experience than anything else they could make in spvp.

This game never was, and never will be balanced for 1vs1. Thats the entire point. Just like WvW is inherently unbalanced, the fun stems from empowering the players even though its a mish mash of pvp and pve events in one big zone.

I agree, it’s a competition. And you’re right it’s not balanced for 1v1. People do it anyway and like all pvp, there are going to be those who lack any sort of sportsmanship about it. Have you looked at the variety of threads whining that this class or that class needs to be nerfed bc they are OP in 1v1? Do you think that’s going to get better or worse if they give you open world dueling?

Not all people act like this, but enough do that Anet took measures to prevent some griefing in pvp. The removal of opponent names to protect people from harassment is an excellent example. i don’t think they would implement additional pvp options like dueling, without first seriously considering the plausibility of the harm it could cause and coming up with some solid anti-griefing measures and a simple ‘auto decline’ is not enough.

Random fun observations:

• It is no more selfish to desire “no dueling” for any reason than it is to desire dueling for any reason. Both desires either do or have the potential to generate a negative consequence for the other “faction.”
• Argue all you want about how players who duel don’t mess with others, but any system in an online game that can be abused, will be abused. The flip side of this axiom is that, if a player is inclined to abuse other players, and is denied the means to do so via one system, s/he’ll find another.
• Thus, the real question is not whether someone will abuse a dueling system, it’s how many will abuse others because of dueling that would not otherwise be inclined to. Taken another way, how many abusive players who are inclined to duel currently hang around exclusively in the Mists who would — if dueling were to be implemented — start hanging around in PvE. I suspect the number is rather small, but what do I know?
• While there are many threads on dueling in this forum, and some of those threads are quite long, a large percentage of the posts in those threads consist of small numbers of players (on each “side”) arguing back and forth with each other.
• Those who’ve said, “There is no real way to accurately determine how many players want and how many don’t want dueling,” are right.
• Anyone basing an argument for or against dueling on the presence or absence of polite behavior, who then talk down to, insult or attempt to defame a poster with the opposing view, is not helping their argument.
• Dueling threads always seem to devolve down to whether the system will be abused or not. It will be, because that’s what some people do.
• That said, the potential for abuse of a system is not always a good reason for the system to be avoided completely. Potential benefits need to be weighed as well as potential negatives. This is why the pro-duel counters to anti-duel arguments all come to, “It won’t affect you.”
• A dueling system could be accompanied by at least an “auto-decline” feature, if not other abuse-discouraging features. This, in my opinion, would be the way to go. It wouldn’t rule out immature behavior, but we get that to some extent now. It would eliminate some of the negatives associated with the feature, while allowing those who would enjoy dueling to do so. I say that while not being likely to use a dueling feature.

runeblade.7514:

cranked.3812:

runeblade.7514:

cranked.3812:

Please don’t waste the time on this devs. I know some people want this, but there are so many things in the game that actually need fixing/attention long before something else is added that, I believe, a small percentage of people want. We already have pvp areas that are great for fighting each other.

And dueling is one of those important things. Which a large majority want.

Really? So, your telling me a majority of the player base wants dueling? Please enlighten me with your evidence.

I can’t say one way or the other because I have no evidence as well, but my suspicions are that the majority would rather see QoL, TP, wvw, pvp, dungeon updates long before dueling.

The playerbase wants dueling because there is a large number of threads about them and there are multiple videos about dueling.

I guess your evidence is because you say so.

There are also tons of threads about mounts, doesn’t mean the majority wants it. It’s called vocal minority.

Not saying wether duelling should be implemented or not. But “there are many threads about it” is not evidence.

Duels would be awesome!
With the option to auto-decline random duel requests.
Nothing drives me crazy like trying to quest and do my thing and getting slammed with duel requests.

Are we really going to have to see that one guy screaming on map chat cause no one will duel him?
Of course not. Blocked.

Fact of the matter is that people often associated dueling with griefing due to bad past experiences. More than likely duelist will be shut out of their server community for spamming duel requests and complaining on chat. Then some server will start sucking in all of the duelist and be the only one dueling server that the rest of the servers hate.

Hm, actually if it goes like this it will be a good thing. Hey Anet! Make this happen!

VOLKON.1290:

Jamais vu.5284:

VOLKON.1290:

The PvE area is coded to be non-competitive. You’re talking about redesigning a huge section of the game, not simply comparing statistics.

Costume duelling works fine though.

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt with regards to realizing they’re not the same thing.

And your argument why they aren’t similar in the context of the open world is?

I have one thing to say for those that claims duelling allows harassment and bad behavior (not mentioning competition).

Tell me about, how you feel, when you enter a group in a dungeon, then some seconds after the start, they ask if you know the Run, and you say you don’t, because its your first time, then you get kicked from the party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me, Isnt PvE the same as PvP?

blakdoxa.7520:

Are we really going to have to see that one guy screaming on map chat cause no one will duel him?
Of course not. Blocked.

Fact of the matter is that people often associated dueling with griefing due to bad past experiences. More than likely duelist will be shut out of their server community for spamming duel requests and complaining on chat. Then some server will start sucking in all of the duelist and be the only one dueling server that the rest of the servers hate.

Hm, actually if it goes like this it will be a good thing. Hey Anet! Make this happen!

I’d agree fully, but darn, mega server update =P
Maybe we can all get flags, like duelists, roleplayers, explorers or whatever to help fix that imbalance.. I dunno.

I wanted dueling since beta. Pvp arenas arn’t the same.. I used to go off with a bunch of buddies in other games and find the coolest areas to duel very often.

kellenburger.9245:

dude duel me. DUDE duel Meh!
dude. dude.
dude dual MEEEE11!!
Hey look everybody DUDE is chicken and wont duel me!
I bet 5 million gold and he still wont duel me.
dude duel me.
dude.

Ban champion trains, I once killed a champion and they all harassed me because of that. I couldn’t sleep for the next 2 weeks.

Wolfheart.1938:

kellenburger.9245:

dude duel me. DUDE duel Meh!
dude. dude.
dude dual MEEEE11!!
Hey look everybody DUDE is chicken and wont duel me!
I bet 5 million gold and he still wont duel me.
dude duel me.
dude.

Ban champion trains, I once killed a champion and they all harassed me because of that. I couldn’t sleep for the next 2 weeks.

Block and report.

Next case.

Ugh. I have had so many bad experiences with Duel Harrassment it actually made me quit on game…mainly because I seemed to be good at dueling, which meant that then everyone and their brother wanted to duel me…even when I wasn’t in the mood for it…

I would only be okay with dueling if it had some very restrictive measures put into place. It needs to be something that stops the person doing the requests from otherwise harrassing the person being requested until they give in.

I think a system that could work would be “Party dueling” wherein it uses the current party system and you can only duel someone in a party with you. If you are already in a party, they cannot try to duel you or anything until you join their party….this at least gets rid of the annoying pop-up that many games throw at you… Duel Y / N? I got so sick of seeing that pop-up.

Not sure how to stop the chat harrassment of “duel me, duel me, XXXX is a chicken cause they wont duel me, just duel me….come on, don’t be a wuss, just duel me, please duel me. Hey guys, XXXX sucks cause they won’t duel me…Fight Meh! Fight Meh!” It would be annoying to continually have to block people.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Wolfheart.1938:

kellenburger.9245:

dude duel me. DUDE duel Meh!
dude. dude.
dude dual MEEEE11!!
Hey look everybody DUDE is chicken and wont duel me!
I bet 5 million gold and he still wont duel me.
dude duel me.
dude.

Ban champion trains, I once killed a champion and they all harassed me because of that. I couldn’t sleep for the next 2 weeks.

Block and report.

Next case.

That’s a separate issue. And also needs to be addressed, so why don’t we save dev time and let them fix some of the other harrassment in the game (someone else pointed out getting kicked in dungeons) rather than giving the kittens one more thing to harrass players with.

Honestly though, I duel friends right now in custom arena’s…why is that so hard to do? I also agree with someone else where as soon as open-world dueling is enabled, you are going to have a whole nother storm of people needing classes balanced in the open world. I LIKE that PvP and PvE are separate now…I really want it to stay that way. And you might say “well, we won’t go to the forums and complain about class balance in PVE”…but someone will.

They have a hard enough time balancing classes in PvP and PvE and WvW without adding PvE&P (Player vs Environment & Player) balancing.

Yeah duels should be high priority,reason is cause duels players want has nothing to do with arena 1vs1 and here is why.
1.Players wants to do duels wile waithing for something (waithing for world boss spawn and such)
2.Players wants to do duels with right build (WvW build,lets be honest,sPvP limits your builds and u cant test your WvW skills there)
3.We want to do duel with people around us,with our friends or strangers and not search 15 min for 1vs1 on WvW.
Meaning there should be Open World Duels everywhere except towns,not sPvP,not WvW and not special maps just made for duel.For those that dont like duels just add option where they can reject automatically so they dont be bothered.