Guild Wars 2

I see alot on this forum, people rage over mesmer and want it nerfed into the ground! My suggestion for you people is, to just play one, and see for yourself that it isnt that great after all…

Bunker mesmer was a broken spec, but it was also the only thing we had that made us viable in group combat situations (PvP)… The dmg of the mesmer is BAD, it isnt even near what other classes do… For 1vs1 mesmer can be great, but for PvP in group its not…

The class rely alot on its class mechanics, clone and shatter etc… The shatter skills are not really good either… They do crap dmg… Only mind wrack do some dmg, even if its low aswell… Cry of frustration is a joke, completly useless skill… And the name of it kinda summon up what I feel about the class right now…

And in group PvP ur clones get killed faster then you react to shatter them… Once that gone, well… I think you get it… Go ahead stand there with that laserbeam skill on greatsword just screaming, “here I am” while doing kitten poor dmg…

The staff only work as a defensive weapon, and its fine, but the dmg of it is hillarious… The scepter (wich get buffed now i heard) is bad aswell…

Then we have the greatsword, and one hand sword… The great sword is our only way to make dmg at range, and it isnt really good either…

The one handed sword I dont like, sword skill 2 have kittened me off since beta… And sword skill 3 works bad aswell… Those skillz wont hit many times when you use them, people move you know…

Our traits doesnt synergize that well, and you are forced to give up things that should had been implemented as class mechanics from the start, to improve ur dps (Deceptive evasion, illusionary reversion, chronophatasma, time catches up)…

3 of these I mention is found in the chrono trait, wich means you kinda get forced into that since they are to important to loose… Deceptive evasion is found in dueling trait, and I find it hard to go without it…

And then we have the “useless” signets, mantras and some other skillz…

The diversity of builds for the mesmer isnt great or even good, its BAD… And iam sure that other classes got problems with that aswell, but here I mean its bad even if all meta builds got nerfed!

Outside of the chronobunk you kinda only have shattermesm and some torment condition build, and for 1vs1 they will do ok (and only ok, not rofl), but for group PvP not viable at all…

The mesmer class is far from what it once was… The core mesmer is just meh…

I kinda see red after weeks of reading what people on forum write about the mesmer… It sounds like they are gods, fotm running around oneshotting everything… But this is not the case… Outside of that chronobunk (wich only brought survivability and team support), the mesmer is in a bad state…

And then… I read update here about what come in PvP balance patch now in january… The fuq, really….

Buff to necromancers (this is worst thing I ever seen, WHY???), no nerf to scrapper, no nerf to druid/ranger (healing, op daze and op pet dmg), etc etc….

And a small nerf to ele… Ele needs serious tweekings, nerfs and buffs… And also getting their health pool up (and people talk aboout nerfing cele amulet)…

And alot of people clapping their hands for more mesmer nerfs…

I couldnt care less about the nerfing to alacrity, but nerfing it while not fixing the core mesm, will ruin the class entirely… It wont be viable in group PvP anymore…

If you going to cry over the mesmer on the forum and calling for nerfs, atleast for the love of god, go play one… And you will see, outside of that chronobunk, its crap…

Yes, I played the other classes myself (you kinda need to be able to beat whats out there). But I main the mesmer, and came to this game only to be able to play this class!

And I tell you, its not that great… Whole class needs to be looked at, and fixed… The state of the mesmer class just make me sad…

As a Mesmer main, who’s always played roaming dps +1, I swapped to Berserker to continue the same roll.

Less utility yeah, but more straight forward, more effective.

Of course when I can align everything up on my Chrono I can land a solid lockdown and burst an entire enemy team at midfight. But the meta is such that most past Mesmer setups have been pushed out. So yeah, bunker chrono, it’s a thing, it’s effective, w/e.

I don’t think there’s that much qq over Chrono though. Just look around. After the res changes, nobody will be frustrated by a Chrono again.

Of course the Mesmer is upset about a possible buff to Necromancer.

Mesmer is hard to play. I can’t land Mesmer burst to save my life, possibly because I try to play it like Warrior or Necromancer though.

Mesmer needs a bit of a trim. One Mesmer is fine but much like Elementalist two Mesmers are just way to much. Their usefulness shouldn’t increase exponentially by doubling the number of Mesmers. Of course it doesn’t look like Arena.net will try to address this and is acting like one Mesmer is broken… when in fact it is the double Mesmer that is broken.

The reason people are trying to crucify Mesmer is because people can’t accept that others are better at their class then they are at theirs. This game community can’t handle having to adjust what they do based on the enemy they are facing, frankly I am surprised the community has made it this long with so many classes.

Soon, mesmers will feel the thief’s pain and thief will overtake mes with our l33tmlgAAs.

1.Play an ele, druid, or anything really.

2.Hold a point against a mesmer and watch them endlessly reset their skills, without that reset you know you’d win. Watch as their teammates outnumber and kill you.

3.Get turned into a moa without warning and for ludicrously long periods of time, be a sitting duck with no counterplay or access to your skills whatsoever.

4.You’re about to get in a stomp, you prepared your stability and…he’s stealthed then rezzed up!

5.Too much confusion and mitigation.

You complained about your illusions dying fast but lots of summoned NPC’s live far too long. Necro minions live through my celestial (which has power, precision , and ferocity in addition to lots of defensive stats) druid’s barrage. with lots of health to spare. Those NPCs can obstruct downed players’ projectiles and simply obstruct in general but their health is high enough where apart from the worm you should ignore them. Gyros are also too tanky people say UA is overpowered but a stealth gyro can live through it just fine and that’s a problem.

6. You don’t do a lot of damage but you have more than enough support and utility to make up for it.

The worst thing about Chrono is the excessive visual spam. I thought base Mes could clutter the screen (I could still easily spot the real one,), but Chrono takes it to another level.

Because they got killed by mesmer. Next day they lose to something else
and is back on the forum to get that nerfed too.
Notice how the most played classes are the least complained about.

Because they got killed by mesmer. Next day they lose to something else
and is back on the forum to get that nerfed too.
Notice how the most played classes are the least complained about.

No, it’s because they either:

1.Simply won’t die unless you 2v1 or more them.

2.stealth quickness rez someone. Can’t cleave if the rez outpaces the cleave damage or target something stealthed.

3.Ability resets. I don’t get to reset all my cooldowns so why should they?

4.AoE fields that grant their side alacrity and the opposing side slow. There’s no counterplay to this and is especially nasty combined with ability reset.

Yes buff to reaper is bad, but worst thing ever is a bit of a stretch…

lol. people are actually trying to defend mesmer? :o

wow reading your post is annoying as hell, as well as factually wrong.

Extreme.8350:

Because they got killed by mesmer. Next day they lose to something else
and is back on the forum to get that nerfed too.
Notice how the most played classes are the least complained about.

nailed it!!! Now we’ll go to the next extreme builds

If its not war/guard/ele trio meta than its worst meta ever

Agemnon.4608:

Because they got killed by mesmer. Next day they lose to something else
and is back on the forum to get that nerfed too.
Notice how the most played classes are the least complained about.

No, it’s because they either:

1.Simply won’t die unless you 2v1 or more them.

2.stealth quickness rez someone. Can’t cleave if the rez outpaces the cleave damage or target something stealthed.

3.Ability resets. I don’t get to reset all my cooldowns so why should they?

4.AoE fields that grant their side alacrity and the opposing side slow. There’s no counterplay to this and is especially nasty combined with ability reset.

Yes buff to reaper is bad, but worst thing ever is a bit of a stretch…

I dont have time to argue with all those things again, me and other mesmers have already done so in other threads…

You seem to be missing the whole picture here. So I will try to be more straightforward with this…

1. I dont care about the chronobunker really!

2. I care about what be left once you nerfed it!

3. Outside of that spec, mesmer has nothing else viable to play in group pvp!

4. You say mesmer deserve low dmg, since they according to you have lots of “support and utility”, wich is not true! Also with that argument alot of classes need their dps nerfed to mesmer level aswell, since they bring even more of what you claim here…

5. Its obvious to me you dont play the mesmer class. If you did you would understand what be left for them in pvp after chrono nerf! And why mesmer is forced into the chrono… There is nothing else. The class is almost dead, when it comes to viable specs for pvp. And mainly 1vs1 a good mesmer can handle, but in those group fight (and most pvp in this game revolve around team play), they be a waste of space outside of that chronobunker spec!

You get it, or want me to explain again!?

Kill chronobunker = core mesmer needs some serious buffs (traits, dps, skills, class mechanics and utility)

Kill chronobunker and not buff mesmer = Kill mesmer in pvp

style.6173:

lol. people are actually trying to defend mesmer? :o

Defend what? The chronobunker build!? If thats what you mean, I would say no!
However, what I try point out is… If you nerf chronobunker, you need to buff core mesmer and fix some other stuff with this class. Its not in a good spot outside of that spec.

Stand The Wall.6987:

wow reading your post is annoying as hell, as well as factually wrong.

Get some glasses and stop trolling the forums!

Or… you can be a bit more constructive in your post… Telling someone that he’s wrong, and then not argue or explain why, is kinda lame dont you think!?

Forum warriors be like…

Here’s my perspective on the topic. If Chronobunker were to be nerfed with the upcoming changes, Mesmers/Chrono would simply revert to Shatter power build. Mesmers have been primarily using shatter builds for a very long time, so it’s hardly a foreign concept to players. Infact Shatter Chrono was very strong right after HoT released, until everyone started playing passive defense wars.

On the other hand, I don’t want Anet to completely remove a build’s viability. It’s a good thing that Mesmers/Chrono have build alternatives than the burst shatter builds. One that’s capable of contesting points in PvP without fear of losing caps (eg. unlike Condi PU). In my opinion, a good balance is when a class is viable of running 3 types of build within a game mode, Power, Condi and Support. However if a class is able to have all 3 within 1 build, that’s too strong, like Heralds and Tempests.

As for the OP’s discussion on Mesmers skills being useless, I would like to disagree on many of his points. Too many to list so I’ll just keep it short. Firstly Cry of Frustration is mainly for condi builds. It’s also can be used as a boon stripping skill when traited. Mantras were also a thing but short lived. Additionally it is a common across all professions that they’ll have some skills unsuitable for PvP. Guardian’s Spirit weapons, Elementalist’s Conjures, Thief’s traps are just some examples of skill types that’s not used in PvP.

The main reason why mesmer is imbalanced right now is because of this:

Nearly unstoppable and very short cd quickness + stability stomps/resses. This is essentially equivalent to having your opponents waste all their best skills and then healing your team mate for 8000 hp.

The only other class that can do this is rev but they are not as durable and are very susceptible to getting cleaved before they finish.

And the 2nd reason is double 3 second PULSING aoe stun.

Honestly continuum split should never have existed. I don’t know what anet was thinking.

Portal is also a bit imbalanced too, it forces someone to sit at an empty point.

poor mesmer cant win 1v2, cant give enough support on team… you really should try warrior then, not only it gives zero support, he cant even win a 1v1 XD XD

Fear the nerf Mesmer! Time to get some skill and dont rely on class mechanics.

Gewd.8125:

Nearly unstoppable and very short cd quickness + stability stomps/resses.

And yet Anet nerfs the only source of quickness guardians have because it was too frequent ;_;

try eating 4 gravity wells or 4 timewarps as a necromancer/thief…yeah I really didnt like that one and cant believe it happened to me

or try finishing something you expended every cooldown on with a mesmer nearby….nothing much can be done to stop it…but that will change soon with quickness and slow not affecting rezzing

killing the dame thing solo isnt possible without making self susceptible to being farmed by druid pets and revenants.

really I thought I hated bunker guardians before but bunker mesmer just puts that past hate to shame.

now excuse me while I join your ranks and help making the opposition cry in frustration

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Agemnon.4608:

Because they got killed by mesmer. Next day they lose to something else
and is back on the forum to get that nerfed too.
Notice how the most played classes are the least complained about.

No, it’s because they either:

1.Simply won’t die unless you 2v1 or more them.

2.stealth quickness rez someone. Can’t cleave if the rez outpaces the cleave damage or target something stealthed.

3.Ability resets. I don’t get to reset all my cooldowns so why should they?

4.AoE fields that grant their side alacrity and the opposing side slow. There’s no counterplay to this and is especially nasty combined with ability reset.

Yes buff to reaper is bad, but worst thing ever is a bit of a stretch…

I dont have time to argue with all those things again, me and other mesmers have already done so in other threads…

You seem to be missing the whole picture here. So I will try to be more straightforward with this…

1. I dont care about the chronobunker really!

2. I care about what be left once you nerfed it!

3. Outside of that spec, mesmer has nothing else viable to play in group pvp!

4. You say mesmer deserve low dmg, since they according to you have lots of “support and utility”, wich is not true! Also with that argument alot of classes need their dps nerfed to mesmer level aswell, since they bring even more of what you claim here…

5. Its obvious to me you dont play the mesmer class. If you did you would understand what be left for them in pvp after chrono nerf! And why mesmer is forced into the chrono… There is nothing else. The class is almost dead, when it comes to viable specs for pvp. And mainly 1vs1 a good mesmer can handle, but in those group fight (and most pvp in this game revolve around team play), they be a waste of space outside of that chronobunker spec!

You get it, or want me to explain again!?

Kill chronobunker = core mesmer needs some serious buffs (traits, dps, skills, class mechanics and utility)

Kill chronobunker and not buff mesmer = Kill mesmer in pvp

All valid concern. But you all have tunnel visions problems.

Team PZ did created that comp. They win sure but will loose versus Celestial COMP.

Whatever you think, Chrono DPS have some great time right now. It’s just harder to pull and need a real mesmer, not someone that start playing it for bunker mesmer or condi mesmer this summer.

Zeromis can handle 1v2 on far for so long (with a dps build), that we win all our matches with him.

Yeah, I know… not all thief are like Caed. But yeah, playing a berzerker ammy build need way more skills than anything else.

Bunker mesmer is easier to kill than Tempest or Druid. Yeah… people that know how to do it, can attest the same. Tunneled visions players all blame bunker mesmer, but that build is not the root of the problem.

It’s REVENANT OPness that forces everything power dps based off meta. So, those guyz did switch to something being able to cope with REV. Mainly… druid, tempest and mesmer (and somwhat some scrapper).

Bunker Chrono can’t heal properly. It’s so bad… to heal we need the regen we get. That’s it…

The changes to shield and WoP were enough to bring us balanced. Quickness stomp or rez is the reason why bunker mesmer is still there. After that… Tempest, Druids, Scrapper bunker build will be better because of group HEALS.

So… yeah… mesmer will basically became thief like after balanced patch and scepter would not be enough to compensate. (necro, engi and rev conditions burst are greater, condi mesmer need more burns or another damage conditions to pull out properly)
(just to mention, that your valid concerns are still valid, even if i think dps mesmer are something in spvp with proper pilot/expert mesmer)

Solutions for the quickness nerf for bunker mesmer:

Healing power should scale more on our heals.
The trait that shatter heal should AOE heal and scale better with healing power.

So a cleric bunker mesmer could be viable.

Dal

No nothing wrong with Mesmers dawg. The fact that there seems to be two them is half the matches I’m in has nothing to do with them being strong. As a matter of fact there is nothing wrong with any class. L2play broskies. /sarcasm.

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Buff to necromancers (this is worst thing I ever seen, WHY???), no nerf to scrapper, no nerf to druid/ranger (healing, op daze and op pet dmg), etc etc….

necros buffs?
Leeching bolts buff requires a dark field, none of the top necro builds have dark fields since the only things with dark fields are wells and greatsword #4. They ain’t buffing meta necro, they’re buffing the nobody ever uses these necro builds. The only other mentioned buffs where to core spec shroud, which again nobody uses.

The entire OP just sounds like somebody spewing all of their bias onto a thread with no regard to factuality.

BurrTheKing.8571:

The worst thing about Chrono is the excessive visual spam. I thought base Mes could clutter the screen (I could still easily spot the real one,), but Chrono takes it to another level.

Fully agree with the excessive visual noise. I tend to get startled and dodge out of my teammates wells, esp. when there are 4 chrono’s in mid. >.>

WhiteRabbit.6931:

style.6173:

lol. people are actually trying to defend mesmer? :o

Defend what? The chronobunker build!? If thats what you mean, I would say no!
However, what I try point out is… If you nerf chronobunker, you need to buff core mesmer and fix some other stuff with this class. Its not in a good spot outside of that spec.

This guy is right. The problem is not with mesmer as a base class, it’s with the chrono elite spec. Chrono needs a balancing, but so do most if not all of the elite specs. Most base classes are pretty balanced when you compare it to the mess after October 23rd.

Gewd.8125:

The main reason why mesmer is imbalanced right now is because of this:

Nearly unstoppable and very short cd quickness + stability stomps/resses. This is essentially equivalent to having your opponents waste all their best skills and then healing your team mate for 8000 hp.

The only other class that can do this is rev but they are not as durable and are very susceptible to getting cleaved before they finish.

And the 2nd reason is double 3 second PULSING aoe stun.

Honestly continuum split should never have existed. I don’t know what anet was thinking.

Portal is also a bit imbalanced too, it forces someone to sit at an empty point.

have you tried to play bunker guard with mercy rune or suport rev with those rune ? you will have 30% res speed…. it wont solve a thing as ppl will probably will used those

also i have never encounter much problem with wells as i used my stun break or time my dodges when needed or stability to make the mesmer used his CS and elite skills

also portal just watch the map or ask you team to give you location of enemies to decide if to leave to point

BurrTheKing.8571:

The worst thing about Chrono is the excessive visual spam. I thought base Mes could clutter the screen (I could still easily spot the real one,), but Chrono takes it to another level.

I had match vs 3 mesmers and 2 necros with minions…. my eyes were bleeding from looking at the screen.

I’m happy for chronobunker to be normalised, however care must be taken with the effect on the core spec lines because core mesmer along with other builds are not all that compared with builds fulfilling similar roles (ie dps) from some other classes.

messiah.1908:

Gewd.8125:

The main reason why mesmer is imbalanced right now is because of this:

Nearly unstoppable and very short cd quickness + stability stomps/resses. This is essentially equivalent to having your opponents waste all their best skills and then healing your team mate for 8000 hp.

The only other class that can do this is rev but they are not as durable and are very susceptible to getting cleaved before they finish.

And the 2nd reason is double 3 second PULSING aoe stun.

Honestly continuum split should never have existed. I don’t know what anet was thinking.

Portal is also a bit imbalanced too, it forces someone to sit at an empty point.

have you tried to play bunker guard with mercy rune or suport rev with those rune ? you will have 30% res speed…. it wont solve a thing as ppl will probably will used those

also i have never encounter much problem with wells as i used my stun break or time my dodges when needed or stability to make the mesmer used his CS and elite skills

also portal just watch the map or ask you team to give you location of enemies to decide if to leave to point

Runes of mercy only add 20% res speed while quickness adds 50%. It is not even close. And you also don’t get quickness stomps. And you lose the ability to use better runes. And you don’t get stability every 10 seconds.

You can stun break out of double gravity well, but then you can’t sit on the point so it is a guarenteed decap. And most mesmers will wait until you are at 50% hp to drop them.

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Stand The Wall.6987:

wow reading your post is annoying as hell, as well as factually wrong.

Get some glasses and stop trolling the forums!

Or… you can be a bit more constructive in your post… Telling someone that he’s wrong, and then not argue or explain why, is kinda lame dont you think!?

Forum warriors be like…

That’s because of how boring and outrageous your post is — it wreaks of ignorance. But sure, I’ll give you the info you need:

You say mesmer damage is bad: you’re wrong, their overall dps might be lower than that of other classes but their burst is higher.

You say the shatter skills are bad: on demand insta invuln and daze, massive damage off mind wrack. The only underwhelming skill is Cry of Frustration and thats only because you’re not condi dmg in most cases

you say clones die before you react to shatter them. No, youre just not micromanaging your clones well enough. Instead of blaming the tools, why dont you even consider that you might need to improve yourself?

How on earth can you call the GS bad? The only skill thats remotely below average is the AA and even that isn’t THAT bad when you autoattack cancel (so learn to play)

The one handed sword is brilliant. iLeap works fine, you just need to learn how long the aftercast is and you wont have any problem immobilising enemies

Our traits doesnt synergize that well, and you are forced to give up things that should had been implemented as class mechanics from the start, to improve ur dps (Deceptive evasion, illusionary reversion, chronophatasma, time catches up)…
1) Mesmers dont run chronophantasms or illusionary reversion
2)Now that shattering yourself isnt a trait anymore you dont need to rely on deceptive evasion (insp offers options for clone generation as well)

Gewd.8125:

messiah.1908:

Gewd.8125:

The main reason why mesmer is imbalanced right now is because of this:

Nearly unstoppable and very short cd quickness + stability stomps/resses. This is essentially equivalent to having your opponents waste all their best skills and then healing your team mate for 8000 hp.

The only other class that can do this is rev but they are not as durable and are very susceptible to getting cleaved before they finish.

And the 2nd reason is double 3 second PULSING aoe stun.

Honestly continuum split should never have existed. I don’t know what anet was thinking.

Portal is also a bit imbalanced too, it forces someone to sit at an empty point.

have you tried to play bunker guard with mercy rune or suport rev with those rune ? you will have 30% res speed…. it wont solve a thing as ppl will probably will used those

also i have never encounter much problem with wells as i used my stun break or time my dodges when needed or stability to make the mesmer used his CS and elite skills

also portal just watch the map or ask you team to give you location of enemies to decide if to leave to point

Runes of mercy only add 20% res speed while quickness adds 50%. It is not even close. And you also don’t get quickness stomps. And you lose the ability to use better runes. And you don’t get stability every 10 seconds.

You can stun break out of double gravity well, but then you can’t sit on the point so it is a guarenteed decap. And most mesmers will wait until you are at 50% hp to drop them.

Gravity Well is so well projected (slow, obvious cast animation with sound effect) that for you to get caught up in one would mean that either you failed, or the mesmer used it from stealth.

I really don’t understand these things.

The double Gravity Well is so OP.

But DH and the invisible, instant cast traps are OK?

The ONLY reason that ChronoBunker was selected was for the quickness rez/stomps. As soon as that goes away. You won’t see any more Chronobunker in high level play. Has nothing to do with CS and double Gravity Wells.

Matty.1953:

Gewd.8125:

messiah.1908:

Gewd.8125:

The main reason why mesmer is imbalanced right now is because of this:

Nearly unstoppable and very short cd quickness + stability stomps/resses. This is essentially equivalent to having your opponents waste all their best skills and then healing your team mate for 8000 hp.

The only other class that can do this is rev but they are not as durable and are very susceptible to getting cleaved before they finish.

And the 2nd reason is double 3 second PULSING aoe stun.

Honestly continuum split should never have existed. I don’t know what anet was thinking.

Portal is also a bit imbalanced too, it forces someone to sit at an empty point.

have you tried to play bunker guard with mercy rune or suport rev with those rune ? you will have 30% res speed…. it wont solve a thing as ppl will probably will used those

also i have never encounter much problem with wells as i used my stun break or time my dodges when needed or stability to make the mesmer used his CS and elite skills

also portal just watch the map or ask you team to give you location of enemies to decide if to leave to point

Runes of mercy only add 20% res speed while quickness adds 50%. It is not even close. And you also don’t get quickness stomps. And you lose the ability to use better runes. And you don’t get stability every 10 seconds.

You can stun break out of double gravity well, but then you can’t sit on the point so it is a guarenteed decap. And most mesmers will wait until you are at 50% hp to drop them.

Gravity Well is so well projected (slow, obvious cast animation with sound effect) that for you to get caught up in one would mean that either you failed, or the mesmer used it from stealth.

Do you even play bunker mesmer? When you shatter continuum split you get quickness which means 0.5 cast times. Dodging out of it means you get decapped. The CC pulses every second so you cannot just dodge out once and go back on it.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Soon, mesmers will feel the thief’s pain and thief will overtake mes with our l33tmlgAAs.

Did you forget pre-HOT metas? Thieves pretty much made many classes non-viable to compete for a spot in the meta. One meta that thief is out and you are happy to play the victim card looking for revenge? You are so clueless.

Rome.7124:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Soon, mesmers will feel the thief’s pain and thief will overtake mes with our l33tmlgAAs.

Did you forget pre-HOT metas? Thieves pretty much made many classes non-viable to compete for a spot in the meta. One meta that thief is out and you are happy to play the victim card looking for revenge? You are so clueless.

More than that, Mesmer was subject to OP’thiefness since forever XD

what i see when i fight a chrono

Block block block CC CC CC CC CC block block block CC CC CC CC CC block block block block………………………

Ross Biddle.2367:

Rome.7124:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Soon, mesmers will feel the thief’s pain and thief will overtake mes with our l33tmlgAAs.

Did you forget pre-HOT metas? Thieves pretty much made many classes non-viable to compete for a spot in the meta. One meta that thief is out and you are happy to play the victim card looking for revenge? You are so clueless.

More than that, Mesmer was subject to OP’thiefness since forever XD

Lol yeah very true.

Before someone comes in and says something, it’s more that everything a thief did countered mesmer. They could keep up with a mesmer easily on all axis especially with Mesmer back then having poor swiftness. Stealth shuts down phantasm and in some cases clone production, clones shattering just stand there picking their noses if you enter stealth. Weapon attacks needing a target to be used, having to spend 30 points back then just to be able to use shatters without a clone up, phantasms having high cast times, list goes on.

Zoltreez.6435:

what i see when i fight a chrono

Block block block CC CC CC CC CC block block block CC CC CC CC CC block block block block………………………

This^

Current bunker meta is pure cancer. I don’t know how the balancing process goes at anet and what their mentality is but this is just cancer.

Balance = “pure dps can counter pure tank” equally to “pure tank can take on a pure dps”. That is no where near the case in this game. It’s actually pure tank will almost always win vs pure dps if he doesn’t make mistakes in skill rotations.

apharma.3741:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Rome.7124:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Soon, mesmers will feel the thief’s pain and thief will overtake mes with our l33tmlgAAs.

Did you forget pre-HOT metas? Thieves pretty much made many classes non-viable to compete for a spot in the meta. One meta that thief is out and you are happy to play the victim card looking for revenge? You are so clueless.

More than that, Mesmer was subject to OP’thiefness since forever XD

Lol yeah very true.

Before someone comes in and says something, it’s more that everything a thief did countered mesmer. They could keep up with a mesmer easily on all axis especially with Mesmer back then having poor swiftness. Stealth shuts down phantasm and in some cases clone production, clones shattering just stand there picking their noses if you enter stealth. Weapon attacks needing a target to be used, having to spend 30 points back then just to be able to use shatters without a clone up, phantasms having high cast times, list goes on.

Oh yea, it’s not like Condi Necro ever countered any engineer spec pre-HoT, right?
Or back in Cele Meta when every Cele spec could destroy a thief, right?
When Shatter Mesmer was the best 1v1 spec, right?

Terrorsquad.4802:

apharma.3741:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Rome.7124:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Soon, mesmers will feel the thief’s pain and thief will overtake mes with our l33tmlgAAs.

Did you forget pre-HOT metas? Thieves pretty much made many classes non-viable to compete for a spot in the meta. One meta that thief is out and you are happy to play the victim card looking for revenge? You are so clueless.

More than that, Mesmer was subject to OP’thiefness since forever XD

Lol yeah very true.

Before someone comes in and says something, it’s more that everything a thief did countered mesmer. They could keep up with a mesmer easily on all axis especially with Mesmer back then having poor swiftness. Stealth shuts down phantasm and in some cases clone production, clones shattering just stand there picking their noses if you enter stealth. Weapon attacks needing a target to be used, having to spend 30 points back then just to be able to use shatters without a clone up, phantasms having high cast times, list goes on.

Oh yea, it’s not like Condi Necro ever countered any engineer spec pre-HoT, right?
Or back in Cele Meta when every Cele spec could destroy a thief, right?
When Shatter Mesmer was the best 1v1 spec, right?

Cele meta countered nearly everything including the non existent Mesmer at high tier (Helseth is the exception to the rule) so quit acting like a special snowflake.

Shatter mesmer was only the best 1v1 directly after spec patch, it was terrible before then shown by the fact most high tier mesmers switched to thief 2 years ago and only got to switch back at spec patch. After the nerfs shatter mesmer wasn’t good at 1v1 anything that wasn’t glass itself.

Besides, you’re missing the point of what I said. The point was that before spec patch Mesmer was at a huge disadvantage against thief which was very common for the reasons I gave. Saying OP thiefness was a slight joke or at least I thought it was, hence why I thought I’d clarify it before someone like yourself started getting in a tizzy over thieves being called OP.

apharma.3741:

Terrorsquad.4802:

apharma.3741:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Rome.7124:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Soon, mesmers will feel the thief’s pain and thief will overtake mes with our l33tmlgAAs.

Did you forget pre-HOT metas? Thieves pretty much made many classes non-viable to compete for a spot in the meta. One meta that thief is out and you are happy to play the victim card looking for revenge? You are so clueless.

More than that, Mesmer was subject to OP’thiefness since forever XD

Lol yeah very true.

Before someone comes in and says something, it’s more that everything a thief did countered mesmer. They could keep up with a mesmer easily on all axis especially with Mesmer back then having poor swiftness. Stealth shuts down phantasm and in some cases clone production, clones shattering just stand there picking their noses if you enter stealth. Weapon attacks needing a target to be used, having to spend 30 points back then just to be able to use shatters without a clone up, phantasms having high cast times, list goes on.

Oh yea, it’s not like Condi Necro ever countered any engineer spec pre-HoT, right?
Or back in Cele Meta when every Cele spec could destroy a thief, right?
When Shatter Mesmer was the best 1v1 spec, right?

Cele meta countered nearly everything including the non existent Mesmer at high tier (Helseth is the exception to the rule) so quit acting like a special snowflake.
.

No.

@terrorsquad he’s a mesmer what did u expect. He teleported away fro your point.

Rebound.3409:

@terrorsquad he’s a mesmer what did u expect. He teleported away fro your point.

Ha ha, I main ele just not in PvP.

Generally adults explain their points if it gets missed instead of putting up memes like they just figured out how to insert pictures. I take it we are all adults here so how’s about going forward and explaining it?

U have teleport as an ele also

Rebound.3409:

@terrorsquad he’s a mesmer what did u expect. He teleported away fro your point.

Bunker Mesmer and Teleporting?
It’s like asking a turtle to move; they tend to stick to their place and hide in their shell untill fight is over.

apharma.3741:

Rebound.3409:

@terrorsquad he’s a mesmer what did u expect. He teleported away fro your point.

Ha ha, I main ele just not in PvP.

Generally adults explain their points if it gets missed instead of putting up memes like they just figured out how to insert pictures. I take it we are all adults here so how’s about going forward and explaining it?

I have a tendency of lowering myself in an attempt to speak on equal therms with people.

Sry about that. I know it’s a bad habit.

Jourdelune.7456:

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Agemnon.4608:

Because they got killed by mesmer. Next day they lose to something else
and is back on the forum to get that nerfed too.
Notice how the most played classes are the least complained about.

No, it’s because they either:

1.Simply won’t die unless you 2v1 or more them.

2.stealth quickness rez someone. Can’t cleave if the rez outpaces the cleave damage or target something stealthed.

3.Ability resets. I don’t get to reset all my cooldowns so why should they?

4.AoE fields that grant their side alacrity and the opposing side slow. There’s no counterplay to this and is especially nasty combined with ability reset.

Yes buff to reaper is bad, but worst thing ever is a bit of a stretch…

I dont have time to argue with all those things again, me and other mesmers have already done so in other threads…

You seem to be missing the whole picture here. So I will try to be more straightforward with this…

1. I dont care about the chronobunker really!

2. I care about what be left once you nerfed it!

3. Outside of that spec, mesmer has nothing else viable to play in group pvp!

4. You say mesmer deserve low dmg, since they according to you have lots of “support and utility”, wich is not true! Also with that argument alot of classes need their dps nerfed to mesmer level aswell, since they bring even more of what you claim here…

5. Its obvious to me you dont play the mesmer class. If you did you would understand what be left for them in pvp after chrono nerf! And why mesmer is forced into the chrono… There is nothing else. The class is almost dead, when it comes to viable specs for pvp. And mainly 1vs1 a good mesmer can handle, but in those group fight (and most pvp in this game revolve around team play), they be a waste of space outside of that chronobunker spec!

You get it, or want me to explain again!?

Kill chronobunker = core mesmer needs some serious buffs (traits, dps, skills, class mechanics and utility)

Kill chronobunker and not buff mesmer = Kill mesmer in pvp

All valid concern. But you all have tunnel visions problems.

Team PZ did created that comp. They win sure but will loose versus Celestial COMP.

Whatever you think, Chrono DPS have some great time right now. It’s just harder to pull and need a real mesmer, not someone that start playing it for bunker mesmer or condi mesmer this summer.

Zeromis can handle 1v2 on far for so long (with a dps build), that we win all our matches with him.

Yeah, I know… not all thief are like Caed. But yeah, playing a berzerker ammy build need way more skills than anything else.

Bunker mesmer is easier to kill than Tempest or Druid. Yeah… people that know how to do it, can attest the same. Tunneled visions players all blame bunker mesmer, but that build is not the root of the problem.

It’s REVENANT OPness that forces everything power dps based off meta. So, those guyz did switch to something being able to cope with REV. Mainly… druid, tempest and mesmer (and somwhat some scrapper).

Bunker Chrono can’t heal properly. It’s so bad… to heal we need the regen we get. That’s it…

The changes to shield and WoP were enough to bring us balanced. Quickness stomp or rez is the reason why bunker mesmer is still there. After that… Tempest, Druids, Scrapper bunker build will be better because of group HEALS.

So… yeah… mesmer will basically became thief like after balanced patch and scepter would not be enough to compensate. (necro, engi and rev conditions burst are greater, condi mesmer need more burns or another damage conditions to pull out properly)
(just to mention, that your valid concerns are still valid, even if i think dps mesmer are something in spvp with proper pilot/expert mesmer)

Solutions for the quickness nerf for bunker mesmer:

Healing power should scale more on our heals.
The trait that shatter heal should AOE heal and scale better with healing power.

So a cleric bunker mesmer could be viable.

Dal

Yessss, I agree!

And also agree on your buff suggestions!

Crinn.7864:

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Buff to necromancers (this is worst thing I ever seen, WHY???), no nerf to scrapper, no nerf to druid/ranger (healing, op daze and op pet dmg), etc etc….

necros buffs?
Leeching bolts buff requires a dark field, none of the top necro builds have dark fields since the only things with dark fields are wells and greatsword #4. They ain’t buffing meta necro, they’re buffing the nobody ever uses these necro builds. The only other mentioned buffs where to core spec shroud, which again nobody uses.

The entire OP just sounds like somebody spewing all of their bias onto a thread with no regard to factuality.

My main consern about this is… That there should had been focus on nerfing reaper in some way, instead I see buff to nerco, and i really dont care what they buff, its still a buff while not nerfing that reaper thingy…

Consider this… What if devs instead of nerfing rev, gave them a buff in some way, would you be fine with it!? I think not!

I hope I didnt made to much people upset with my thread! But I stand my ground on this!

As I see it there are two ways to proceed for balancing:

• Nerfing every elite specs until they are on par with core specs
• Buffing every core spekittenil it is on par with elite specs

The former requires a lot less work so that should be what they do. Buffing Reaper is a bad idea from this point of view. That just promotes the power gap.