Guild Wars 2

kinda repost from:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/pips-gains-and-losses/5832832

tl; dr
make it such that we never lose pips if our team score is at least 400 points and above. this is only fair as match prediction is not working as intended, as teams of 5 players can lower their MMR by playing together.

and the repost, kinda

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/finding-the-perfect-match/
scroll down to “ladder ranking”

………………………………… Final Score …………………………………
Win % | 0-199 | 200-299 .. | 300-399 .. | .. 400-499 | 500
0-19% | … -1 … | ….. 0 ….. | … +1 ….. | …. +2 …. | +3
20-39% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | …… 0 ….. | … +1 …. | +2
40-59% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
60-79% | . -2 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
80-100% | -3 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1

please revert back to this. it is only fair, and encourages everyone to try to score at least 400 team points.

the current one is not working as intended:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm#Configuration_3

………………………………… Final Score …………………………………
Win % | 0-199 | 200-299 .. | 300-399 .. | .. 400-499 | 500
0-19% | … -1 … | ….. 0 ….. | … +1 ….. | …. +2 …. | +3
20-39% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | …… 0 ….. | … +1 …. | +2
40-59% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
60-79% | . -2 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … -1 …… | +1
80-100% | -3 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … -1 …… | +1

this is the table they are using, this is not working because the match prediction is not working as intended.

the match making system throws your 5 man pug (1 sapphire 4 emeralds) against a full 5 man party and expect your team to win.

that is down right broken.

please fix.

thanks!

discuss!

edit:

can we make some changes to the match prediction thing?

change the winning % threshold of
20-39% into
20-49%

so as long as our winning % is not at least 50% we still can be motivated to try to score at least 400 team score.

………………………………… Final Score …………………………………
Win % | 0-199 | 200-299 .. | 300-399 .. | .. 400-499 | 500
0-19% | … -1 … | ….. 0 ….. | … +1 ….. | …. +2 …. | +3
20-49% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | …… 0 ….. | … +1 …. | +2
50-59% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … -1 …… | +1
60-79% | . -2 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … -1 …… | +1
80-100% | -3 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … -1 …… | +1

I just wanna say I don’t get why people are losing pips in games where they have 0% chance to win, that’s ridiculous.

Because impossible is possible. And if you have a 10% chance to win, it does not mean you have a 10% chance to score points. Every team in theory should be able to hold 1 node. Which is why I think it starts at -1.
200 points is 1 node for 400 seconds or 6min and 40 sec.
If the enemy holds the other 2 nodes for the same time, they will only reach 400 so, its very possible in a pure loss situation.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Because impossible is possible. And if you have a 10% chance to win, it does not mean you have a 10% chance to score points. Every team in theory should be able to hold 1 node. Which is why I think it starts at -1.
200 points is 1 node for 400 seconds or 6min and 40 sec.
If the enemy holds the other 2 nodes for the same time, they will only reach 400 so, its very possible in a pure loss situation.

Everyone knows that there are completely unwinnable games and also games where it’s impossible to score any points. Especially in this meta when you can have a bunker mes on your close and the node won’t ever get capped. If you have 0% chance to win, then getting even one node is obviously gonna be a very hard thing to do.

It is not impossible to score points, its a rotation issue. You should never have 0 points. The reason you cannot score is because the other team is rotating.
If they leave the mesmer at far/close, it is a 5v4 everywhere else. As soon as the mesmer moves, send someone there. If it comes back, go somewhere else.

I will agree with unwinnable games, but I disagree about the points.
Even in pro leagues, with the best players, no one ever scores 0.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

It is not impossible to score points, its a rotation issue. You should never have 0 points. The reason you cannot score is because the other team is rotating.
If they leave the mesmer at far/close, it is a 5v4 everywhere else. As soon as the mesmer moves, send someone there. If it comes back, go somewhere else.

I will agree with unwinnable games, but I disagree about the points.
Even in pro leagues, with the best players, no one ever scores 0.

I think you should rewatch the Proleague games.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

It is not impossible to score points, its a rotation issue. You should never have 0 points. The reason you cannot score is because the other team is rotating.
If they leave the mesmer at far/close, it is a 5v4 everywhere else. As soon as the mesmer moves, send someone there. If it comes back, go somewhere else.

I will agree with unwinnable games, but I disagree about the points.
Even in pro leagues, with the best players, no one ever scores 0.

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/30048176?t=01h56m56s

With this meta, depending on the comp, they don’t have to rotate… 1 character can spill coffee on their keyboard, taking out 3 people on the other team in the process. You get 3 or 4 players doing this on one team… it’s over. Like when you get a comp of 2 bunker ele’s, and 3 dragonhunters vs 3 thieves and 2 warriors… the dh and eles can hold all 3 points pretty much indefinitely.

I should have known, that it would be in the most recent vod someone scoring zero… People always find a way.

Last match of the night… no one on my team scored more than 65 points… 3 of us 25 points or less…with 1 being 0 points. They bunkered all 3 points and 1 shot everyone as we tried to take the point.

Link.1049:

Last match of the night… no one on my team scored more than 65 points… 3 of us 25 points or less…with 1 being 0 points. They bunkered all 3 points and 1 shot everyone as we tried to take the point.

ouch that sounds painful.
what division are you in?

Link.1049:

Last match of the night… no one on my team scored more than 65 points… 3 of us 25 points or less…with 1 being 0 points. They bunkered all 3 points and 1 shot everyone as we tried to take the point.

Bunkered all three nodes while one shotting you??
Not sure how that could actually happen, unless you had no bunkers of your own.

I don’t think you have how the system works down 100%. If you do then there system is kinda botched for games that end on time because neither team is at 500 and so both can lose pips even if they win the match (although that seems to be happening anyhow so maybe). It is more likely (and should be) based on point difference rather than point thresholds. It most games where it reaches 500 points it will feel more like point thresholds. Just a thought I know no clue how their system actually works would be nice if they cleared that up for us (and made it more visual in game after the game is over).

I do believe I remember them saying they were going to make it more clear, the sooner the better.

We had 1 bunker, the 65 point dude… They just redirected their 2 free people to where ever he was… done. Balance is totally busted. The match ups are annoying too… I’ve got friends who I can steamroll 1 v 1 or even 1 v 2 who are ruby now. I’m stuck in emerald.

Link.1049:

We had 1 bunker, the 65 point dude… They just redirected their 2 free people to where ever he was… done. Balance is totally busted. The match ups are annoying too… I’ve got friends who I can steamroll 1 v 1 or even 1 v 2 who are ruby now. I’m stuck in emerald.

That’s because the worse you are the easier it is for you to progress, especially in soloq. Having your MMR affects the matchmaking is just bad since bad people will get matched with bad and eventually progress in divisions. Right now the division you are doesn’t reflect your skill at all.

yesterday (post patch) i lost a pip winning 500-150, i didnt dc i dont think anyone on my team dcd.

today i lost a game, i lost i pip. someone said they got a pip for losing. no way to confirm but seems messed up if this can happen.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Both of those tables are inaccurate. I just got my official wiki account, and I’ve slowly started to update the matchmaking page. I will try and update the ladder point tables today.

ah thanks evan!

Evan Lesh.3295:

Both of those tables are inaccurate. I just got my official wiki account, and I’ve slowly started to update the matchmaking page. I will try and update the ladder point tables today.

What happens if your odds of victory are say 50% and your team scores 0 points? None of the score thresholds are met in this case, so if I understand it correctly the table does not reflect this.

did evan updated the table?

<PointRules Mode=“Conquest”>
<PointRule Odds=“0”>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-1” ScoreRatio=“0.2”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“0” ScoreRatio=“0.4”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“1” ScoreRatio=“0.6”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“2” ScoreRatio=“0.8”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“3” ScoreRatio=“1”/>
</PointRule>
<PointRule Odds=“0.2”>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-1” ScoreRatio=“0.4”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“0” ScoreRatio=“0.6”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“1” ScoreRatio=“0.8”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“2” ScoreRatio=“1”/>
</PointRule>
<PointRule Odds=“0.4”>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-1” ScoreRatio=“0.6”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“1” ScoreRatio=“1”/>
</PointRule>
<PointRule Odds=“0.6”>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-2” ScoreRatio=“0.4”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-1” ScoreRatio=“0.6”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“1” ScoreRatio=“1”/>
</PointRule>
<PointRule Odds=“0.8”>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-3” ScoreRatio=“0.2”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-2” ScoreRatio=“0.4”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-1” ScoreRatio=“0.6”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“1” ScoreRatio=“1”/>
</PointRule>
</PointRules>
<PointRules Mode=“Stronghold”>
<PointRule Odds=“0”>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-1” ScoreRatio=“0.1”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“0” ScoreRatio=“0.2”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“1” ScoreRatio=“0.4”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“2” ScoreRatio=“0.6”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“3” ScoreRatio=“1”/>
</PointRule>
<PointRule Odds=“0.2”>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-1” ScoreRatio=“0.2”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“0” ScoreRatio=“0.4”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“1” ScoreRatio=“0.6”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“2” ScoreRatio=“1”/>
</PointRule>
<PointRule Odds=“0.4”>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-1” ScoreRatio=“0.4”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“1” ScoreRatio=“1”/>
</PointRule>
<PointRule Odds=“0.6”>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-2” ScoreRatio=“0.2”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-1” ScoreRatio=“0.4”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“1” ScoreRatio=“1”/>
</PointRule>
<PointRule Odds=“0.8”>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-3” ScoreRatio=“0.1”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-2” ScoreRatio=“0.2”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“-1” ScoreRatio=“0.4”/>
<Checkpoint LadderPoints=“1” ScoreRatio=“1”/>
</PointRule>
</PointRules>

can anyone figure out what it means? O_O

from
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm#Configuration_3

aw kitten it will not copy over properly.

what does score ratio means?

The ratio between the two teams points at the end of the match, their score. As far as I can tell at a glance, without looking into the way it predicts outcomes, I imagine that a 0 in Odds should be 50/50 scenario predicted for both teams, with neither side being favored. If one team then has a landslide win of 500 : 0 points, they’d get 3 pips. If it were a outcome of 500 : 1-100, they’d get 2 pips, and say 500 : 101+ would grant 1 pip. I will just take a guess it takes something like (Winner Score – Loser Score) / Winner Score(?) and rounds the figure to get the ratio. Basically, it’s pretty much impossible to get 3 pips, if it is very strict on the rounding and how it handles going from 1 to 0.8 in the score ratio.

1- Stop this mess
2- no -3 no 3, just -1/1, 0 if draw.
3- No MMR thing.
4- If Emerald is team-up with ruby, consider team as ruby when matchmaking.
5- Hf

a ratio … your team’ score / 500 = score ratio (or 525 or 650 … depends of the map)

0.1 = 10 % = 50 pts
0.2 = 20 % = 100 pts
0.4 = 40 % = 200 pts
0.6 = 60% = 300 pts
0.8 = 80 % = 400 pts

I don’t know if Those points are caps (380 is still 0.6) or average number (380 is closer to 0.8 than 0.6)

someone made a table in reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3x7ngm/the_pvp_pip_reward_algorithm_in_table_form_and/

When matchmaking determines you have a 0-19% chance to win
Your team loses and scores 0-199 points -1 pip
Your team loses and scores 200-299 points 0
Your team loses and scores 300-399 points +1 pip
Your team loses and scores 400-499 points +2 pip
Your team wins +3 pip

When matchmaking determines you have a 20-39% chance to win
Your team loses and scores 0-299 points -1 pip
Your team loses and scores 300-399 points 0
Your team loses and scores 400-499 points +1 pip
Your team wins +2 pip

When matchmaking determines you have a 40-59% chance to win
Your team loses -1 pip
Your team wins +1 pip

When matchmaking determines you have a 60-79% chance to win
Your team loses and scores 0-299 points -2 pip
Your team loses and scores 300-499 points -1 pip
Your team wins +1 pip

When matchmaking determines you have a 80-99% chance to win
Your team loses and scores 0-199 points -3 pip
Your team loses and scores 200-299 points -2 pip
Your team loses and scores 300-499 points -1 pip
Your team wins +1 pip

i must say, the pips gains and loss from 40% win chance onwards is royally kittened.
please fix.

To Evan,

Why am I directing this to him on this post, because he posted here about pip loss.

I find the system as implemented very frustrating. You may have wanted guilds to man 5 person teams as your main focus but even guilds will have solo ques because their may be some synergy in game play with team mates that do not make the optimum scenario, so people are left out, yet wanting to compete. The devs have left solo que out as an option and based MMR as the primary bonding criteria from everything as far as I can see posted. With this scenario you have players that will drop their MMR solo and regroup for tiers they want to progress in. Solo only players end up grouping with these players so the outcome is a ying yang effect. I played solo unranked primarily before the season started and always maintained a 51% or higher win ratio, no comms and very little chat with teams I joined. It is basically the only parts of the game I pug. The seasons starts and boom all that goes out the window. Yes I am playing players I have never seen before, but tons I have, whats different? I play with the same intensity I have always played, I am more than aware of bad and good streaks. But I see players that I have run with and against before changing how they play, as solos they play awful but grouped they are playing like I know they can play. I have been in matches where known players to me both on and off my team are just not playing to the caliber that I have come to know them to play. I then fight these same players, sometimes to my benefit as I am on their side and the fight is good, win or lose they are playing like they have in the past. What happens to me, since I solo que, the two guilds I am associated with I either don’t fit the group or the original guild doesn’t have the interest to run it. So I yo-yo, up 2 down 2 up 1 down 1, up 3 down 2, up 3 down 4. Amber was OK, I could manage the fact the every match even if I was on the winning team would not guarantee a pip. But emerald now is just a cluster kitten of yo-yo based on what I see players doing to exploit the system. 30 matches in my 3rd tier Emerald and I still can’t progress. I did not say 30 matches to get to tier 3, I said 30 matches in tier 3 and I am now at 0 pip’s. I have had matches I lost 502 to 494, been on teams, I call them tank teams since the same players are group up that same night or the next day where I have lost 600+ to 200 (killing the lord to shove it is a little overkill). In all the unranked matches I have been I have never been on a team that was so outclassed even if it was a premade where all 5 players are on the same guild.

I really don’t think there is a kitten thing you are going to do about it but I had to say what is on my mind. My account is old, I go back to the start of GW1 and I am the last person to come complaining on a forum but your SPvP season is flawed, seriously flawed in the mechanics and the two main guilds on the leader boards are just a testament to how flawed that is though this conversation was not about that.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

someone made a table in reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3x7ngm/the_pvp_pip_reward_algorithm_in_table_form_and/

When matchmaking determines you have a 0-19% chance to win
Your team loses and scores 0-199 points -1 pip
Your team loses and scores 200-299 points 0
Your team loses and scores 300-399 points +1 pip
Your team loses and scores 400-499 points +2 pip
Your team wins +3 pip

When matchmaking determines you have a 20-39% chance to win
Your team loses and scores 0-299 points -1 pip
Your team loses and scores 300-399 points 0
Your team loses and scores 400-499 points +1 pip
Your team wins +2 pip

When matchmaking determines you have a 40-59% chance to win
Your team loses -1 pip
Your team wins +1 pip

When matchmaking determines you have a 60-79% chance to win
Your team loses and scores 0-299 points -2 pip
Your team loses and scores 300-499 points -1 pip
Your team wins +1 pip

When matchmaking determines you have a 80-99% chance to win
Your team loses and scores 0-199 points -3 pip
Your team loses and scores 200-299 points -2 pip
Your team loses and scores 300-499 points -1 pip
Your team wins +1 pip

i must say, the pips gains and loss from 40% win chance onwards is royally kittened.
please fix.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Both of those tables are inaccurate. I just got my official wiki account, and I’ve slowly started to update the matchmaking page. I will try and update the ladder point tables today.

We might not agree with the structure, but thank you for posting this chart. For those who want to learn instead of complain it is a huge benefit to have.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Both of those tables are inaccurate. I just got my official wiki account, and I’ve slowly started to update the matchmaking page. I will try and update the ladder point tables today.

So according to the Algorithm update, the table should be something like this right now:

Fistandanthilus.6824:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Both of those tables are inaccurate. I just got my official wiki account, and I’ve slowly started to update the matchmaking page. I will try and update the ladder point tables today.

So according to the Algorithm update, the table should be something like this right now:

aye that should be it.

however, the new table totally disregard what they have said earlier:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/finding-the-perfect-match/

Here are some of the benefits:
Players are rewarded for playing well, even if they lose the game.
Players who play well are rewarded more often than those who have a few lucky matches.
Players are given a chance at success and a reason to keep fighting, even if a comeback may not be possible.
Players are compensated for uneven matches by increasing rewards with risk.

because you are totally kittened if match prediction dictates that your team have a winning chance of at least 40% and no matter how hard you try, you will lose 1 pip if you lose a game. that is ridiculous.

they should really revert back to their original table

………………………………… Final Score …………………………………
Win % | 0-199 | 200-299 .. | 300-399 .. | .. 400-499 | 500
0-19% | … -1 … | ….. 0 ….. | … +1 ….. | …. +2 …. | +3
20-39% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | …… 0 ….. | … +1 …. | +2
40-59% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
60-79% | . -2 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
80-100% | -3 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Fistandanthilus.6824:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Both of those tables are inaccurate. I just got my official wiki account, and I’ve slowly started to update the matchmaking page. I will try and update the ladder point tables today.

So according to the Algorithm update, the table should be something like this right now:

aye that should be it.

however, the new table totally disregard what they have said earlier:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/finding-the-perfect-match/

Here are some of the benefits:
Players are rewarded for playing well, even if they lose the game.
Players who play well are rewarded more often than those who have a few lucky matches.
Players are given a chance at success and a reason to keep fighting, even if a comeback may not be possible.
Players are compensated for uneven matches by increasing rewards with risk.

because you are totally kittened if match prediction dictates that your team have a winning chance of at least 40% and no matter how hard you try, you will lose 1 pip if you lose a game. that is ridiculous.

they should really revert back to their original table

………………………………… Final Score …………………………………
Win % | 0-199 | 200-299 .. | 300-399 .. | .. 400-499 | 500
0-19% | … -1 … | ….. 0 ….. | … +1 ….. | …. +2 …. | +3
20-39% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | …… 0 ….. | … +1 …. | +2
40-59% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
60-79% | . -2 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
80-100% | -3 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1

Well, I would prefer a table more like this one:

………………………………… Final Score …………………………………
Win % | 0-199 | 200-299 | 300-399 | 400-499 | 500
0-19% | … -1 … | ….. 0 ….. | … +1 ….. | …. +2 … | +3
20-39% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | …… 0 …..| … +1 …. | +2
40-59% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
60-79% | . -2 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
80-100% | -3 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … -1 ..… | +1

Because if you lose a game with a chance of 80% or more to win it, you should lose a point.

Fistandanthilus.6824:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Fistandanthilus.6824:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Both of those tables are inaccurate. I just got my official wiki account, and I’ve slowly started to update the matchmaking page. I will try and update the ladder point tables today.

So according to the Algorithm update, the table should be something like this right now:

aye that should be it.

however, the new table totally disregard what they have said earlier:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/finding-the-perfect-match/

Here are some of the benefits:
Players are rewarded for playing well, even if they lose the game.
Players who play well are rewarded more often than those who have a few lucky matches.
Players are given a chance at success and a reason to keep fighting, even if a comeback may not be possible.
Players are compensated for uneven matches by increasing rewards with risk.

because you are totally kittened if match prediction dictates that your team have a winning chance of at least 40% and no matter how hard you try, you will lose 1 pip if you lose a game. that is ridiculous.

they should really revert back to their original table

………………………………… Final Score …………………………………
Win % | 0-199 | 200-299 .. | 300-399 .. | .. 400-499 | 500
0-19% | … -1 … | ….. 0 ….. | … +1 ….. | …. +2 …. | +3
20-39% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | …… 0 ….. | … +1 …. | +2
40-59% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
60-79% | . -2 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
80-100% | -3 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1

Well, I would prefer a table more like this one:

………………………………… Final Score …………………………………
Win % | 0-199 | 200-299 | 300-399 | 400-499 | 500
0-19% | … -1 … | ….. 0 ….. | … +1 ….. | …. +2 … | +3
20-39% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | …… 0 …..| … +1 …. | +2
40-59% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
60-79% | . -2 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
80-100% | -3 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … -1 ..… | +1

Because if you lose a game with a chance of 80% or more to win it, you should lose a point.

well that is acceptable for me.

Win trading my friends, if the pool is big enough then 90% of people should be in the 40-60 category and then it becomes standard to let people get over 400 points.
Shouldn’t really provide safety nets, you have to win to advance.
And 99.9% of people in 20-80 category so no one loses. Stupid system.

Arutha.9874:

Win trading my friends, if the pool is big enough then 90% of people should be in the 40-60 category and then it becomes standard to let people get over 400 points.
Shouldn’t really provide safety nets, you have to win to advance.
And 99.9% of people in 20-80 category so no one loses. Stupid system.

winning, gaining pips, is advancing.

not losing pips is not advancing.

there is nothing wrong with not losing pips for scoring at least 400 team points.
the winning team gets a pip and progresses.
the losing team tried their best and scored 400+ team points but they did not lose any pips.

everyone is happy.

I used to enjoy PvP, its a broken mess of toxic people in a toxic environment with frustrations reaching new levels because you’re builds and balances seem worse than I have played since launch. Yes, their are teams that don’t lose, and play together more seriously, but im talking casual players in hot join. 17 matches lost 2 days ago, in a row, and 12 losses today, in a row. I have never experienced such pathetic imbalanced games, seriously, I’m beyond frustrated trying to have fun. and fyi, I have all races all professions, so play them all, and some of them are just ridiculous, and virtually impossible to kill. So casual players have become cannon fodder for the teams that play together, all I can say is its toxic (and that’s about as kind as I can get).

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Arutha.9874:

Win trading my friends, if the pool is big enough then 90% of people should be in the 40-60 category and then it becomes standard to let people get over 400 points.
Shouldn’t really provide safety nets, you have to win to advance.
And 99.9% of people in 20-80 category so no one loses. Stupid system.

winning, gaining pips, is advancing.

not losing pips is not advancing.

there is nothing wrong with not losing pips for scoring at least 400 team points.
the winning team gets a pip and progresses.
the losing team tried their best and scored 400+ team points but they did not lose any pips.

everyone is happy.

This is not player vs player then, there is no punishment to people who play poorly so there is no anxiety nothing on the line and everyone will be legendary eventually as everyone steadily grows the pip count of the community.
No, legendary is and should only be 1% of the community and not something you are allowed to demand for.
1 for win -1 for loss end of story, Matchmaking handles the rest to make sure the games are 50-50 chance of winnings.
The only thing I would include additional +/- for is known issues: diamonds who use ambers to fight rubies should get a -1 to their end reward thereby being +0/-2 for w/l and the Amber player +3/1 for w/l.
If a person qualifies for -3 by their scale (personal score is fine here or simply APM) then they should break the tier boundaries and drop lower.

you kitten!

scoring at least 400 team points is not playing poorly you kitten!

read what they said earlier.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/finding-the-perfect-match/
Here are some of the benefits:
Players are rewarded for playing well, even if they lose the game.
Players who play well are rewarded more often than those who have a few lucky matches.
Players are given a chance at success and a reason to keep fighting, even if a comeback may not be possible.
Players are compensated for uneven matches by increasing rewards with risk.

40% chance to win but lose 1 pip even if scored 400 team score.
that is kitten.

fix it.

your feedback is not welcomed by the way.

by the way, you kitten.
the punishment is already no pips gain.
you kitten.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

you kitten!

scoring at least 400 team points is not playing poorly you kitten!

read what they said earlier.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/finding-the-perfect-match/
Here are some of the benefits:
Players are rewarded for playing well, even if they lose the game.
Players who play well are rewarded more often than those who have a few lucky matches.
Players are given a chance at success and a reason to keep fighting, even if a comeback may not be possible.
Players are compensated for uneven matches by increasing rewards with risk.

40% chance to win but lose 1 pip even if scored 400 team score.
that is kitten.

fix it.

your feedback is not welcomed by the way.

My main argument is the system you propose is that same as saying +1/0 for w/l because people with communication will try to optimise both groups outcome.

Look I understand that you want a system where everyone can be a winner but that is not what PvP is for in real life ranging from sports to gambling to financial option trading across all spans of time. I understand the computer games have no real backing behind them so people think it is okay and good for everyone to be a winner but not true. People would get bored of PvP if the only restriction was playing lots of games to reach legend 150 per season.

Gw2 already has a polite enough system which with +1/-1 w/l grants you exactly the same progression as Hearthstone’s win streak system (I have the graphs and research to back it up) and those people here of the forums that complain either about 50% win rate instead of 65% or who complain negative reinforcement is bad are too entitled.

You mention comebacks but I argue that it won’t happen because of psychology, everyone will consider it bad manners to not let the other team score at least 400.
I do that already by letting anyone on the opp team that didn’t get points decap mine whenever we are over 300 points ahead.(and that is for tiny rewards of 400-500 rank points)

TL DR: Do not get angry, I have the opinion that this is PvP and you should bleed sweat cry curse and bash your head against a wall for each and every pip and tier and if you got to Ruby then start hoping you can innovate in a way you beat 65% of the meta.

PS. I am not sure if it was this thread or another but I want to mention that the average games to complete a tier is around 16 not 5-10 that most people think, and 30+ is only a 90% confidence interval so that is a normal outcome for people since there is 1000s of us playing, nothing to complain about.

hmmm once you put it that way, yeah, i guess you are right.

: /

can we make some changes to the match prediction thing?

change the winning % threshold of
20-39% into
20-49%

so as long as our winning % is not at least 50% we still can be motivated to try to score at least 400 team score.

………………………………… Final Score …………………………………
Win % | 0-199 | 200-299 .. | 300-399 .. | .. 400-499 | 500
0-19% | … -1 … | ….. 0 ….. | … +1 ….. | …. +2 …. | +3
20-49% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | …… 0 ….. | … +1 …. | +2
50-59% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … -1 …… | +1
60-79% | . -2 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … -1 …… | +1
80-100% | -3 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … -1 …… | +1

If you stick to that pip system, when a game ends at like 170-250 (happens a lot in stronghold), scores should be upscaled. So, pip-wise, the score would be treated as 340-500.

Ara.4569:

If you stick to that pip system, when a game ends at like 170-250 (happens a lot in stronghold), scores should be upscaled. So, pip-wise, the score would be treated as 340-500.

well that table is for conquest mode.
i have no idea how stronghold points work when it comes to pips gains and losses.

Laraley.7695:

I just wanna say I don’t get why people are losing pips in games where they have 0% chance to win, that’s ridiculous.

Exactly, I just got out of a game, 1 pip before next division, we get in and a player disconnects permanently, never comes back, we try our best but are beat out in the 4v5. We lose, lose a pip and now I wonder what the point is…

Not saying a disconnect should be guaranteed no pip loss but if they are gone early and stay gone it really shouldn’t harm 4 other people because one person decided to f off.

I lost a game 497 – 500 yesterday. Lost a pip.
Our team: 3 man grp (1 emerald, 2 sapphire) + 2 sapphire randoms
Their team: 2 man grp (ruby, sapphire) + 2 man grp (ruby, amber) + 1 sapphire random
I gave up trying to understand that system, srsly.

Who cares? Just win games and never lose.

Ashamir.9574:

I lost a game 497 – 500 yesterday. Lost a pip.
Our team: 3 man grp (1 emerald, 2 sapphire) + 2 sapphire randoms
Their team: 2 man grp (ruby, sapphire) + 2 man grp (ruby, amber) + 1 sapphire random
I gave up trying to understand that system, srsly.

YOU LOST THE GAME. HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND THAT LOSING A GAME LOWERS YOUR STANDING IN A LEAGUE. HAVE ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY PLAYED IN COMPETITIVE SPORTS?

Ya’ll acting like a bunch of freeloaders. This “grind” you guys complain about is saving your butts from the embarrassment of realizing you are inadequate for competition.

Fistandanthilus.6824:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Fistandanthilus.6824:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Both of those tables are inaccurate. I just got my official wiki account, and I’ve slowly started to update the matchmaking page. I will try and update the ladder point tables today.

So according to the Algorithm update, the table should be something like this right now:

aye that should be it.

however, the new table totally disregard what they have said earlier:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/finding-the-perfect-match/

Here are some of the benefits:
Players are rewarded for playing well, even if they lose the game.
Players who play well are rewarded more often than those who have a few lucky matches.
Players are given a chance at success and a reason to keep fighting, even if a comeback may not be possible.
Players are compensated for uneven matches by increasing rewards with risk.

because you are totally kittened if match prediction dictates that your team have a winning chance of at least 40% and no matter how hard you try, you will lose 1 pip if you lose a game. that is ridiculous.

they should really revert back to their original table

………………………………… Final Score …………………………………
Win % | 0-199 | 200-299 .. | 300-399 .. | .. 400-499 | 500
0-19% | … -1 … | ….. 0 ….. | … +1 ….. | …. +2 …. | +3
20-39% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | …… 0 ….. | … +1 …. | +2
40-59% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
60-79% | . -2 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
80-100% | -3 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1

Well, I would prefer a table more like this one:

………………………………… Final Score …………………………………
Win % | 0-199 | 200-299 | 300-399 | 400-499 | 500
0-19% | … -1 … | ….. 0 ….. | … +1 ….. | …. +2 … | +3
20-39% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | …… 0 …..| … +1 …. | +2
40-59% | . -1 … | ….. -1 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
60-79% | . -2 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … 0 …… | +1
80-100% | -3 … | ….. -2 ….. | ….. -1 ….. | … -1 ..… | +1

Because if you lose a game with a chance of 80% or more to win it, you should lose a point.

I would have no problem with that if ppl were never thanking matches. When you land in a team with one or more ppl thanking, but that on paper put you in a 80%+ probability of winning, you are so kittened.

meow one twenty.4376:

Ashamir.9574:

I lost a game 497 – 500 yesterday. Lost a pip.
Our team: 3 man grp (1 emerald, 2 sapphire) + 2 sapphire randoms
Their team: 2 man grp (ruby, sapphire) + 2 man grp (ruby, amber) + 1 sapphire random
I gave up trying to understand that system, srsly.

YOU LOST THE GAME. HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND THAT LOSING A GAME LOWERS YOUR STANDING IN A LEAGUE. HAVE ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY PLAYED IN COMPETITIVE SPORTS?

Ya’ll acting like a bunch of freeloaders. This “grind” you guys complain about is saving your butts from the embarrassment of realizing you are inadequate for competition.

I maybe should have made clear that my problem was not that I lost a match. It is just that I don’t understand the matchmaking system that pairs 2 ruby against sapphires with emeralds in there.
I have no problem with losing. That was the first game I lost after a 10 game winning streak. Just how the match-ups are made doesn’t really make sense to me.
This was not the first time I played against a few ruby with a group of sapphire/emeralds only.

Ashamir.9574:

meow one twenty.4376:

Ashamir.9574:

I lost a game 497 – 500 yesterday. Lost a pip.
Our team: 3 man grp (1 emerald, 2 sapphire) + 2 sapphire randoms
Their team: 2 man grp (ruby, sapphire) + 2 man grp (ruby, amber) + 1 sapphire random
I gave up trying to understand that system, srsly.

YOU LOST THE GAME. HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND THAT LOSING A GAME LOWERS YOUR STANDING IN A LEAGUE. HAVE ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY PLAYED IN COMPETITIVE SPORTS?

Ya’ll acting like a bunch of freeloaders. This “grind” you guys complain about is saving your butts from the embarrassment of realizing you are inadequate for competition.

I maybe should have made clear that my problem was not that I lost a match. It is just that I don’t understand the matchmaking system that pairs 2 ruby against sapphires with emeralds in there.
I have no problem with losing. That was the first game I lost after a 10 game winning streak. Just how the match-ups are made doesn’t really make sense to me.
This was not the first time I played against a few ruby with a group of sapphire/emeralds only.

The game was 497-500, aka a close game. Typically that means the teams were about equal in abilities. 10 game win streaks also increase your MMR, they could be on a 10 game loss streak lowering their MMR.

Anything else I can help with?

meow one twenty.4376:

Ashamir.9574:

meow one twenty.4376:

Ashamir.9574:

I lost a game 497 – 500 yesterday. Lost a pip.
Our team: 3 man grp (1 emerald, 2 sapphire) + 2 sapphire randoms
Their team: 2 man grp (ruby, sapphire) + 2 man grp (ruby, amber) + 1 sapphire random
I gave up trying to understand that system, srsly.

YOU LOST THE GAME. HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND THAT LOSING A GAME LOWERS YOUR STANDING IN A LEAGUE. HAVE ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY PLAYED IN COMPETITIVE SPORTS?

Ya’ll acting like a bunch of freeloaders. This “grind” you guys complain about is saving your butts from the embarrassment of realizing you are inadequate for competition.

I maybe should have made clear that my problem was not that I lost a match. It is just that I don’t understand the matchmaking system that pairs 2 ruby against sapphires with emeralds in there.
I have no problem with losing. That was the first game I lost after a 10 game winning streak. Just how the match-ups are made doesn’t really make sense to me.
This was not the first time I played against a few ruby with a group of sapphire/emeralds only.

The game was 497-500, aka a close game. Typically that means the teams were about equal in abilities. 10 game win streaks also increase your MMR, they could be on a 10 game loss streak lowering their MMR.

I know that. I think that it shouldn’t be able to work that way. That’s my point.