Guild Wars 2

Yea, before our fixes and anyone had worked out that EA was bugged to oblivion and back. Then came the OP Staff bunkers. EA got nerfed, then came the OP D/D AND S/D eles and everyone cried about D/D but didn’t give 2 dams about S/Ds even though they were way better then D/D

Duncanmix.5238:

I think you are should rename your tiers a bit.

Tier S: best class or too much op
Tier A: slightly op
Tier B: good balance
Tier C: underpowered

This is essentially what I did, but use less game friendly word choices such as ‘op’.

I think Tier A is where all classes should strive to be.

Tier B Classes like the Guardian or the Thief are already in a good place, but need a bump to be distinctive and more useful such as a Mesmer in Tier A.

Where as Elementalists which is the clear winner is in Tier S. They should arguably be bumped down to Tier A.

Warriors/Necros who are Tier C need considerable more work to make them viable.

Tier list go home you are drunk!

Thank you for your post, Antihero. You seem the only sensible person in this mass.

Antihero.5429:

Making a tier list based on classes is plain stupid without considering builds. The strength of a class changes immensely depending on what type of build it is running. For example, ele is only top tier due to 0-10-0-30-30 w/ toughness amulet, mistform + variations of it.

A proper tier list would be something like this (my opinion):

Tier 1 +/- variations:

0-10-0-30-30 d/d, s/d Ele
0-30-30-5-5 trap Ranger
Any guardian that isn’t running something like glass cannon condition dmg
20-20-0-0-30 Shatter mesmer or phantasm mesmer w/ portal, illu of life, time warp

Tier 2 +/- variations:

Every other mesmer (i.e bunker)
0-10-0-30-30 staff ele
25-30-0-0-15 Burst Thief
30-30-10-0-0 Staff+S/d well or condition Necro w/ res signet
30-10-0-30-0 HGH Engi / Bomb Kit Engi

Tier 3 +/- variations:

Bunker Ranger or SB ranger w/ 2 signets + stunbreak
20-30-0-0-20 100b Warrior
30-30-10-0-0 Staff+s/d well or condition necro w/o res signet
0-30-20-0-20 terror necro
100nades Engi / bunker engi
Attrition thief

Tier 4:
Everything else

I think i’ve gotten most of what I usually see

+1

lol its funny how two weeks i go i think that rangers were the weakest class now traps ranger OMG class is OP.

for everyone i thinks its an L2p issue.

i agree warriors are weak, engi needs a lil kiss of love too, ele needs less heals,

and stealth should be reworked, alot of problems would be solved.

tier 1

double D/D – S/D ele 0-10-0-30-30 build ( only when stacking more than one of them)

Double trap ranger 0-30-30-5-5 build ( same as above)

mesmer portal + time warp ( the mesmer itself is tier 2)

between tier 1-2

bunker guard

tier 2

Shatter mesmer
burst thief
HGH engie
Hybrid tanky BM ranger
Hybrid wells necro
DPS ele

tier 3

Condi necro
engie 100 nade
bunker mesmer
100 blades war ( maybe longbow wars are mid tier 2-3)

tier 4

everything else.

what about 0/20/0/20/30 ele, what tier is that? ;D

Duncanmix.5238:

I think you are should rename your tiers a bit.

Tier S: best class or too much op
Tier A: slightly op
Tier B: good balance
Tier C: underpowered

With that said from Warrior pov:

Tier S: Elementalist (no surprise here i guess)
Tier A: Guardian, Thief, Mesmer. I’m little bit surprised that people putting thieves so low. As a warrior, you can be in middle of battle and suddenly you die to thief. In like second, you can go scratch, yawn, check your phone for sec or whatever and thats enough time for thief to down you.
Tier B: Necro, Ranger, Enge. I guess lots of people noticed potential in ranger, but I rarely meet some top tier rangers and they are ok with me.
Tier C: Warrior. Nothing makes me happy then to see bunch of warrior in enemy team. You know they gonna bulls rush you, and you know once you dodge it you won.

Seems pretty accurate to whats being played right now on NA, I’d say maybe Mesmer switch with Thief though; very few teams run mesmer in higher level play anymore (despite the huge benifits a great mesmer can bring to a team), and thief is still /dance 1 shotting everyone in da face (caed, im lookin at you buddy) -but now with d/p wep combo. ;p

Solori.6025:

Remember back in august through november it was something like.

Mesmer/Guardian
Theif
Engi/warr
Necro
Ele/ranger.

My how the meta has changed LOL

This.

And all this ranking is so ridiculously pointless. How is it possible that few months ago rangers and eles were at the bottom and now in the top while they didn’t really change the professions.

There is no profession or build which is perfect in every situation, against every profession or every build.

There were a lot of topics about thiefs beeing so much OP. Now people learned how to counter them and the class is fine, out of sudden. The same will probably go for eles/rangers. Once people learn how to counter them, adapt their builds, they will be no more OP. Instead, another class will pop up as OP.

From the PoV of playing many classes.
1. Ele
2. Ranger
3. Guardian
4. Mesmer
5. Thief
6. Engineer
7. Necromancer
8. Warrior

From the PoV of a Guardain
1. Ranger
2. Guardian
3. Necromancer
4. Mesmer
5. Ele
6. Engineer
7. Warrior
8. Thief

It’s stupid to see this compared to GW1 where all classes were viable.

a typical fighting game tier list:

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/

each character is ranked individually against each other character.

in GW2 terms, the entire team build should be evaluated against other set team builds.

eg. Ele / Ele / Guard / Guard / Mesmer vs Ranger / Ranger / Ele / Ele / Guard vs Mesmer / War / Necro / Ele / Guard vs Thief / Ele / Ranger / Necro / Mesmer, etc.

if ranking professions individually, i would base it purely on 1v1 balance ( which would look very close to the list you have in the OP ).

My beloved warrior….. sitting at the bottom of everyone’s list. Anet has yet to say anything about the situation as far as I know

Engie in A group imo. He still has strong builds.

Jackums.3496:

It’s amusing how people can get so offended by a tier list.

People on the Internet get offended by the notion of anyone having different opinion from theirs.

Killyox.3950:

Jackums.3496:

It’s amusing how people can get so offended by a tier list.

People on the Internet get offended by the notion of anyone having different opinion from theirs.

People on the internet also make lists about listmakers that are good at listmaking

What happens with the list if DD ele gets a major nerf and people actually starts to understand the necro? Will take forever for DD to get “lower tier” cause of the acne crew raging over their Red Bulls!

Rookni.2469:

Killyox.3950:

Jackums.3496:

It’s amusing how people can get so offended by a tier list.

People on the Internet get offended by the notion of anyone having different opinion from theirs.

People on the internet also make lists about listmakers that are good at listmaking

What happens with the list if DD ele gets a major nerf and people actually starts to understand the necro? Will take forever for DD to get “lower tier” cause of the acne crew raging over their Red Bulls!

You already have one such example. Ranger with traps. It’s been the same since release really and only now people tried it widely and noticed he is powerful.

Also those lists are not too good because some ppl rate based on 1 working OP spec and other overall capability.

1. = Ele
2. = Mes/Ranger
3. = Necro/Guardian
4. = War
5. = Theif/Engineer

I see #2 and #3 as being very very close almost to the point where they are in the same class.

Eles aren’t super broken, its just an accumulation of all the minor things that combine into 1 big massive kitten off OP build.

Started running one recently and was shocked at how easy it was to roll my face across the keyboard and survive.
It IS broken and needs to be fixed.

I don’t generally split into classes that are easy to kill and hard to kill… but more how does one class (build) contribute to the team. If they have too many features it looks sometimes overpowered.

1. Thiefs generally (have huge mobility, high burst, okay survivibility [meaning with stealth and mobility have a chance to leave a fight – compared to other classes])
1. Def-Ele (have huge mobility, huge survivibility, decent dmg [tbh I kill e.g. a mesmer after 30 sec. or so if I land my “burst”])

2. Trap-Ranger (high Condi-dmg, okay CC with pet, good survivibility)
2. Mesmer (high burst, mobility okay with focus)
2. Bunker-Guard (huge survivibility, great cc)
2. dps Ele (high dps, high mobility)

3. bombkit / HGH Engineer (okay condi, okay survivibility, good mobility)
3. necro (good condi, good dps, poor mobility)

4. warrior (good dps, good mobility, good survivibility (theoretical) – but just to easy to read)

I think the major issue is that the classes in Tier 1 have too much options – I still think Thief is very strong in tPvP, because the just turn around smaller group fights so crazy (they engage a fight, instantkill somebody and leave)

They should have a “downside”
- either remove stealth from thief to lower surv. or remove port with shortbow or lower dps… one of the three.
- either remove mobility from def-ele, or mass-heal surv., or “panic-button” mistform.

Both of these classes can easily leave a fight without dying – they aren’t punished for bad decisions.

Overall I have to say in tPvP all classes are viable and good. And having a good Player for one class is really really strong (even is the class seems underpowered currently). What I think is sad – when you look at certain classes and all the builds – for each build you will find a build in another class that can do better.

As a Condi-Burst Engi:

1) Ele
2) Ranger
3) Thief
4) Engineer
5) Guardian
6) Mesmer
7) Necro
8) Warrior

This includes my general weakness to Empathic Bond and particular Thief builds though. Without that Rangers and Thieves would drop significantly. Same could be said for Ele’s without such strong sustain.

In general though, except for maybe Warriors this game is a a lot more balanced then most think.

Antihero.5429:

Making a tier list based on classes is plain stupid without considering builds. The strength of a class changes immensely depending on what type of build it is running. For example, ele is only top tier due to 0-10-0-30-30 w/ toughness amulet, mistform + variations of it.

A proper tier list would be something like this (my opinion):

Tier 1 +/- variations:

0-10-0-30-30 d/d, s/d Ele
0-30-30-5-5 trap Ranger
Any guardian that isn’t running something like glass cannon condition dmg
20-20-0-0-30 Shatter mesmer or phantasm mesmer w/ portal, illu of life, time warp

Tier 2 +/- variations:

Every other mesmer (i.e bunker)
0-10-0-30-30 staff ele
25-30-0-0-15 Burst Thief
30-30-10-0-0 Staff+S/d well or condition Necro w/ res signet
30-10-0-30-0 HGH Engi / Bomb Kit Engi

Tier 3 +/- variations:

Bunker Ranger or SB ranger w/ 2 signets + stunbreak
20-30-0-0-20 100b Warrior
30-30-10-0-0 Staff+s/d well or condition necro w/o res signet
0-30-20-0-20 terror necro
100nades Engi / bunker engi
Attrition thief

Tier 4:
Everything else

I think i’ve gotten most of what I usually see

Gallrvaghn.4921:

+1

+2

^
I’ve said this before, Tier lists doesn’t necessarily mean Necros are bad. It just means people have less success in tournaments with them compared to another class due to something that another class has that’s game breaking

Defektive himself isn’t a casual. Don’t even talk before you actually fight the guy in his prime.

Don’t know why people see warrior so low, thing melts face given the chance.

Warriors are good, just not as good at what they do as other classes.

Lets be honest, the most popular builds for warriors are based around bulls frenzy 100b.
Dodge that and it takes a well skilled warrior to come back and still win the fight.

Walse.1749:

Defektive.7283:

Walse.1749:

LOL, tier lists are completely pointless.
And i guess you guys are just casual pvpers.
Have you never seen what a good necro can do in paid tPvP?? All classes are viable, but it is remarkable that casuals like you think necro is so low on the so called ‘food-chain’.

Yup. I’m a casual alright. Never in my life stepped into tPvP ever no sirree bob.

Your parents should have taught you that if you don’t havoe something constructive to say, then don’t say anything at all.

I did say something contructive, but i guess you can’t handle a different opinion. Necro’s are very good in sPvP imo (if they are played well), and someone who makes tier lists doesn’t understand the core of gw2 pvp game, all classes are balanced and very viable if handled by good players. So either you are a casual (casuals do come in the mists, ‘sir’) or you learn very slow.

So uh.. in your opinion if a community feels like rating their general experiences against different classes… they must all be casuals. Right.

1. Ele.
2. Guardian (though in a limited capacity. And nobody really complains about them because they dont die to them).
3. Ranger/mesmer. Kinda a tie in my book. Rangers seeing alot of love right now for good reason. mesmers have timewarp.
4. Thief. Good mobility and disengage and burst.
5. Necro. would be lower but signet res is great.
6. Engy.
7. Warrior.

I’d like to add i think the differences between 1 and 7 are not even that great. Eles only need a small tone down, engies and warriors only need a small facelift.

Only received 5 new ‘votes’.

Will re-organize the next time we hit 10.

Speaking as a “non-cookie-cutter”, somewhat casual but still serious bleed thief (using the tier definition provided by Defektive):

S) Ele’s: they can drop my bleeds pretty much at will, and heal up as they do so.
S) Mesmers: not sure which build, but I run into some mesmers who can open on me at range and do a tonne of damage. The typical shatter/blurred frenzy mesmers are usually run by derpers and are pretty easy to take down, but the ones who have someone with a brain running them are a big PITA.
A) Rangers: smart rangers can be a pain, no matter the build.
A) Necros: most necros I’ve run into aren’t awesome at constantly removing my bleeds, but some are, and they’re a real challenge.
A) Engineers: bunker engineers take forever to bring down, and the occasional condition engineer has surprised me.
B) Guardians: bunker builds… they don’t beat me, but they don’t die either. We just fight forever because we always have cooldowns available to counter one-another. Damage guardians are usually pretty predictable and go down.
B) Warriors: typically very predictable and easy to counter. I’ve run into a couple of serious warriors who weren’t running cookie-cutter builds that surprised me, though.
C) Thieves: most thieves, burst or bleed, are usually pretty easy game because 90% of them are running cookie-cutter burst or bleed builds, and use a predictable play-style.

1. Ele
2. Ranger/Mesmer
3. Necro/Guardian/Engi/Thief
4. Warrior

Within any given tier, the leftmost classes are roughly better than or as good as the ones to the right. I may be biased by spending my whole life at midpoint.

Killyox.3950:

Rookni.2469:

Killyox.3950:

Jackums.3496:

It’s amusing how people can get so offended by a tier list.

People on the Internet get offended by the notion of anyone having different opinion from theirs.

People on the internet also make lists about listmakers that are good at listmaking

What happens with the list if DD ele gets a major nerf and people actually starts to understand the necro? Will take forever for DD to get “lower tier” cause of the acne crew raging over their Red Bulls!

You already have one such example. Ranger with traps. It’s been the same since release really and only now people tried it widely and noticed he is powerful.

Also those lists are not too good because some ppl rate based on 1 working OP spec and other overall capability.

This is so not true. Rangers got some serious buffs since the game was released. Same with eles.

Lick wound actually works, projectile speed increased, pet AI improved to make pets actually a threat, traps are now unblockable (and actually work on clocktower, lol), entangle now deals damage based on the rangers condi damage etc etc

Eles had the same deal. Lots of buffs that added up.

The meta has been directly influenced by changes to the game time and again. Some people like to think that there are these “hidden” builds out there, but I can tell ya there is only so much you can do with half the trees and utilities on all classes being complete kitten.

Walse.1749:

I did say something contructive, but i guess you can’t handle a different opinion. Necro’s are very good in sPvP imo (if they are played well), and someone who makes tier lists doesn’t understand the core of gw2 pvp game, all classes are balanced and very viable if handled by good players. So either you are a casual (casuals do come in the mists, ‘sir’) or you learn very slow.

A tier list isn’t really supposed to indicate the actual true strength of any class or build relative to others but rather just be a sort of ranking taking into account the frequency of them within teams in organised play and their general performance overall.

So the consensus generally accepts the following

Top: Elementalist
Bottom: Warrior

God: Ele/Guard/Ranger
Top: Warrior/Thief/Engi/Mesmer
Couldusealittlelove: Necro

Ostricheggs.3742:

Killyox.3950:

Rookni.2469:

Killyox.3950:

Jackums.3496:

It’s amusing how people can get so offended by a tier list.

People on the Internet get offended by the notion of anyone having different opinion from theirs.

People on the internet also make lists about listmakers that are good at listmaking

What happens with the list if DD ele gets a major nerf and people actually starts to understand the necro? Will take forever for DD to get “lower tier” cause of the acne crew raging over their Red Bulls!

You already have one such example. Ranger with traps. It’s been the same since release really and only now people tried it widely and noticed he is powerful.

Also those lists are not too good because some ppl rate based on 1 working OP spec and other overall capability.

This is so not true. Rangers got some serious buffs since the game was released. Same with eles.

Lick wound actually works, projectile speed increased, pet AI improved to make pets actually a threat, traps are now unblockable (and actually work on clocktower, lol), entangle now deals damage based on the rangers condi damage etc etc

Eles had the same deal. Lots of buffs that added up.

The meta has been directly influenced by changes to the game time and again. Some people like to think that there are these “hidden” builds out there, but I can tell ya there is only so much you can do with half the trees and utilities on all classes being complete kitten.

Actually it is true.

Nothing really significant changed with the ranger besides trap’s working like mark’s ( like they should have been from the start)

and bug fixes to broken mechanics. ( the pet AI has been one of the longest on going changing mechanics I think since this game announced it’s beta. Both the Ranger and Necro have has some AI changes to their pet, to make them functional like they SHOULD have been).

While the Ele has recieved the one buff to its healing on cone of cold and nerfs every where else.

Just like how this meta is going to change when they add some minor tweaks to the other classes next week, when they make something work that has been bugged and people all of a sudden see that build in frequency, because it works.

But lets not turn this into another nerf thread. more list qq go!!

This is a team game so a tier list should be based on which classes are most necessary to compete.
Any list without guardian in the top tier is just false, it seems people just take for granted how overpowered they are. There hasn’t been a single top team in NA or EU since release that runs without a guardian. They are %100 necessary to compete.

1. Guardian, Ele
2. Ranger
3. Mesmer
4. Thief, Necro, Engi
5. War

Honestly, cant understand the hype about rangers atm, never have problem killing them in paids. Engineer is so underestimated, cause ppl cant play them but when you meet at good one they are crazy. And seriously Anet, do some kittening nerf to eles already!

This list is from personal experience in paid and free tournaments.

1. Ele
2. Mesmer
3. Engineer
4. Guardian
5. Thief
6. Necro
7. Warrior
8. Ranger

kirito.4138:

So the consensus generally accepts the following

Top: Elementalist
Bottom: Warrior

I think Necro is evenly matched with Warrior at the bottom.

This is from my experience playing mostly in free’s and in duels as a Guardian, Ranger, Engi and occasionally a Warrior.

S+: Mesmer
S-: Ele
A+: Guardian
A:- Necro
B:+ Ranger
B-: Thief
C+: Engi
C-: Warrior

Why are necros ranked so low? In any group battle or even duo, if you have a necro sitting in the back dropping conditions like crazy, it’s almost a guaranteed wipe for the enemy team if they aren’t prepared. They aren’t the best at solo, but sPvP is about teamwork right?

Opc.4718:

Why are necros ranked so low? In any group battle or even duo, if you have a necro sitting in the back dropping conditions like crazy, it’s almost a guaranteed wipe for the enemy team if they aren’t prepared. They aren’t the best at solo, but sPvP is about teamwork right?

Thats why you have someone take them out, train their kitten, stop them from dropping all those conditions and rez signets. If your team can’t protect your necro then they become pretty useless.

Remember that one time when ArenaNet said Warriors would be the basis which all other professions were balanced?

Funny.

Everything should be balanced around the thief.
If a thief can’t kill it, it’s broken
/notsrs.
/semisrs

Opc.4718:

Why are necros ranked so low? In any group battle or even duo, if you have a necro sitting in the back dropping conditions like crazy, it’s almost a guaranteed wipe for the enemy team if they aren’t prepared. They aren’t the best at solo, but sPvP is about teamwork right?

They aren’t really. 8 classes and they getting ranked 4th to 6th, so middle of the pack.

Warriors, and to a lesser extent engies are holding up the bottom.

my experience as playing as a mesmer in paid/free tpvp and spvp in general…

nothing is that OP, depends largely on the player and his build/skill and the teamwork of the team.

never once did i think: “man that class should be nerfed” or “my class is so bad against X”

these tier lists are completely unnecessary, will do more damage than good… my 2 cents

cheers

Dadi.1870:

my experience as playing as a mesmer in paid/free tpvp and spvp in general…

nothing is that OP, depends largely on the player and his build/skill and the teamwork of the team.

never once did i think: “man that class should be nerfed” or “my class is so bad against X”

these tier lists are completely unnecessary, will do more damage than good… my 2 cents

cheers

’

Its ok as long as people keep in mind the top class, and the bottom class, not so different in power.

Eles are the only thing even close to standing out.

never had that much of a problem with eles really…they are just annoying and guardians also

Everyone keeps talking about builds and about teamwork and how they should be the defining factor of a ‘tier list’ or the views of the community.

I’m going to try my best to explain it from my point of view as to why those reasons are not legitimate in the current state of the game.

1) “The Tier List should be based on Build Potential”

Fact is, there’s only a handful of builds that are currently viable in the tPvP setting. Trying to say that build A should be better than build B is not comprehensible in the current atmosphere simply because build A and B both usually accomplish the same exact goal through a slightly different medium.

Because of this, we shouldn’t try to differentiate the class into different tiers based on builds – because the availability of new and intriguing builds isn’t there.

2) “The Tier List should be based on what it brings to a team!”

I would love to say yes to this, but I can’t.
The biggest culprit in this scenario are combo fields. Touted as being the magic in the madness, what drives people to work together and comboing skills / attacks. Communicating and setting up combos.

In reality however, combo fields are negligible. Often overlooked – their potential is out shined by the ability for an individual to do MORE simply by themselves.

Sure some classes have team based skills – Time Warp for example. But what Mesmer wouldn’t use Time Warp ANYWAY? No down-side frenzy?

The end result

We can only really judge a class based on two criteria:

A) It’s usefulness in comparison to another class.

B) It’s versatility in comparison to another class.

All the classes in the current Tier List provided have been chosen in some respect because of the criteria above.

An Elementalist is extremely useful as both as roaming, DPS or a bunker satisfying both criteria.

A Guardian is arguably the best bunker in the game, satisfying Criteria A.

Yet both of these classes excel at those areas better than a Warrior – hence why it was pushed so down south into Tier C.

Arguably, the only ‘ideal’ solution is embedded in ArenaNets already built in function – Combo Fields.

If there were more possible combos and combo ’effect’s such as landing a combo in a field removes all boons from an enemy. We would see teams working together in combat, builds being built around working in tandem with other classes.
A Tier List would matter less in a class to class basis and it would revolve around how multiple classes can compliment each other.

Anyway, that’s how I see it, and until people can relatively wake up to the state of the game, it’ll be difficult to have a unified voice to direct at Arena Net.

Arena net is aware that eles are too strong. Has commented on this.
And informed us they are getting a (small ) nerf.

Which is fair, they only need a small adjustment.

Dadi.1870:

my experience as playing as a mesmer in paid/free tpvp and spvp in general…

nothing is that OP, depends largely on the player and his build/skill and the teamwork of the team.

never once did i think: “man that class should be nerfed” or “my class is so bad against X”

these tier lists are completely unnecessary, will do more damage than good… my 2 cents

cheers

Well for sure, since you are a mesmer, no other class will feel OP compared to you! :P

Kardiamond.6952:

Dadi.1870:

my experience as playing as a mesmer in paid/free tpvp and spvp in general…

nothing is that OP, depends largely on the player and his build/skill and the teamwork of the team.

never once did i think: “man that class should be nerfed” or “my class is so bad against X”

these tier lists are completely unnecessary, will do more damage than good… my 2 cents

cheers

Well for sure, since you are a mesmer, no other class will feel OP compared to you! :P

Isn’t it funny how a warrior will 1v1 a mesmer and say the mesmer is overpowered, but the mesmer will claim that warriors are balanced?

Perspective is great.