Guild Wars 2

I’d say rangers could be higher than Elementalist. :/

I’ll give my short summary of the patch for the professions I have taken the time to analyze.

Engineer: We got some usless buffs and useless trait changes. Overall engineers are weaker due to R nerf.

Necromancer: Has the potential for great damage now (rivals HGH) but like HGH it has no survivability. In general 5% or so better due to helpful but tiny buffs.

Elementalist: New traits have lead to a bit of increased build diversity with a new burst build for scepter IMO becoming good enough to rival meta. (0,30,0,10,30). Lightning flash change makes them a tiny bit less resilient but aftercast changes and added damage help a bit too.

Rangers: Pet damage got decreased which will hurt all rangers a bit. There is 1 new interesting trait which allows rangers to have swiftness but it relies on shouts which are all terrible so I don’t think it’s viable.

Warriors: A few strong minor traits got turned into special stronger grandmaster traits which will hurt the damage of almost all warriors. In return they made longbow decent and added an ok mid level tier which actually clears some conditions. Still relatively subpar.

I’ll just list Tier strength Now

S
Guardian Bunker (Must have on a team)

A
D/D Ele or S/D Ele
Shatter Mesmer

B
BM Ranger

C
Engi
Necro

D
Warriors

? Or No Clue
Thiefs. I have no idea how theifs changed if at all. Hopefully S/D is nerfed sufficiently.

After Patch: Only tpvp based

S: -

A:
Engineer +
Necro =
Messmer =
Guardian =
Elementalist =
Thief -

B:
Ranger=

C:
Warrior +

Post patch:

Tier S
Necromancers

Tier A
Warriors = Mesmers (would be even better if it weren’t for necros)
Guardians
Eles
Thieves

Tier B
Engis = Rangers

Why do you have engineers so low, Ostrich? Stun break on Elixir R being removed hurt them that much?

Tier S:-

None

Tier A:-

Necromancer+
Elementalist=
Mesmer=
Guardian=

Tier B:-

Warrior-

I do not have that much knowledge about engi or thief so cant comment on them but I would guess they are around A- or B+

Warrior is definitely better now but needs more if it has to reach an A status

violentlycar.5267:

Why do you have engineers so low, Ostrich? Stun break on Elixir R being removed hurt them that much?

Yes, the ramifications of this change are much larger than it would be on any other class. THe engi has already suffered nerfs to their “usable” stun breaks before. Elixir R was the last hope. It didn’t require you to spec for the cooldown because it was already pretty low, it refilled endurance and it gave us a rez utility that, when specced properly, could be used adequately for a burst of condition clear and a self rez.

This allowed us to drop a LOT of defensive mechanisms in favor of damage or other forms of defense (my favorite was backpack regenerator, pretty strong).

Now that elixir R has been destroyed we can either revert back to S (a crappy stun break in and of itself as well as having an extreme cooldown that begs for fast-acting elixirs just to make usable half the time) or go to slick shoes (the best part of slick shoes is now the stun break… have fun with that)

Simply put, the R nerf had massive ramifications for engi and I knew of no viable build on engineer that didn’t use elixir R. Not because it’s an overpowered self-rez, but because it was the best stun break that we had on a utility starved class.

Oh, and everything else got buffed in terms of them vs engi. Did I mention necros are kittenedly overpowered beyond belief? Not since shattered might gave 3 stacks of might have I seen something that stupid.

I’ll be on my warrior actually doing stuff for my team

Tier S
= Necromancer

Tier A
+ Elementalist
= Guardian
- Engineer

Tier B
= Mesmer
= Thief
- Ranger

Tier C
+ Warrior

Conditions are way too strong right now, what makes other professions aside from Necromancer a lot weaker. Every serious team will have the new fotm profession in their lineup and cut their Ranger, Thief or maybe Engineer for it.

Necro is set, like Elementalist, maybe Guardian but another Ele would do the job aswell.
Engineers stay strong if played well, watch Teldos stream and you know why.
Mesmers only bring Portal and Illusion of Life, Thiefs Shadowtrap. Rangers are not that good anymore or better say: why bring a Ranger when you have a Necromancer.
Warriors got slightly better, uncertain here.

Tier S
=Necromancer
-Elementalist

Tier A
=Guardian
-Engineer

Tier B
=Mesmer
=Thief

Tier C
=Ranger
=Warrior

I arrange my list according to the classes I think are easiest to play vs difficult to kill.

1. Thief
2. Mesmer
3. Elementalist
4. Engineer
5. Ranger
6. Necromancer
7. Guardian
8. Warrior

I would put Necro at 5. and Ranger at 6, but I feel that despite necromancer being more difficult to kill, I think ranger is a lot easier to play and has more build options.

You guys are crazy with this Necro = s thing. They got buffed, but kitten , I’m still generally not like “ohnowtfrun!” when I see one. It’s not THAT bad…

Tier S
- Elementalist
Tier A
+ Guardian
= Mesmer
= Necro
Tier B
+ Ranger
+ Engineer
= Thief
Tier What are you even doing here
- Warrior

Tier S
+ Necro
= Mesmer

Tier A
= Guardian
= Elementalist

Tier B
= Engineer
= Thief
= Ranger

Design Concept Fail
= Warrior

Guys I really recommend waiting a couple more days for things to settle out.

Seriously people…necro Tier S, can’t you dodge those wells and time your condition cleanse? I can get killed sometimes by condition spike if the necro is assisted, but the current builds they use are very squishy anyway.

Currently playing s/d ele : 0/30/0/20/20 and bow/axe/shield warrior: 0/30/30/0/10 and can kill necros in both instances ( really the new warrior traits are great, of course the ele ones also)

Arheundel.6451:

Seriously people…necro Tier S, can’t you dodge those wells and time your condition cleanse? I can get killed sometimes by condition spike if the necro is assisted, but the current builds they use are very squishy anyway.

Currently playing s/d ele : 0/30/0/20/20 and bow/axe/shield warrior: 0/30/30/0/10 and can kill necros in both instances ( really the new warrior traits are great, of course the ele ones also)

I can guarantee you that a good condi necro will destroy you on your ele/warrior. Add me for a 1v1 I’m not very good at necro but I’ll give it a shot.

Post 25/06/2013 patch, tPvP:

Tier S
none

Tier A
+ Mesmer
+ Elementalist
= Guardian
= Engineer
= Necromancer

Tier B
+ Thief
= Ranger

Tier C
+ Warrior

Why do people still put ele,mesm and guard so high??

lmao… apparently people still aren’t used to fighting necros

yeah, my eyeballs hurt from all the QQ now. eyeroll I don’t think its that necros are OP now, you just have a bunch of noobs spamming fear so people are crying.

Tier S
none

Tier A
= Necro
= Mesmer
= Guardian
= Thief
- Warrior
- Engi
- Ele
- Ranger

The necro QQ is amazing to watch. Ostrich, try not being so biased about Engies, you sound like someone stole your first born.

I would like to propose something to the people who don’t think necro is in an OP spot right now.

Lets say a team comes in. Guardian, Ele, Necro, Necro, Engineer. You’re a competent team and you know you need to focus targets.

Who do you focus?

The Engi? Ok he’s gonna bomb your kitten poison you and laugh as the necro’s focus him and take him out.

A Necro? Ok. Then the back point Ele comes in, heals him as the other 2 condition the crap out of you to the point that you can’t move.

You can’t focus the Ele or the guard. They’re both bunkers.

So now I ask you. How is CC’ing something going to work when they can give it back to you while the team loads you up with condis, epidemics you, and your whole team has to blow a condi clear just to stay alive and try to get out of the grenades/wells being thrown down at you.

It’s not a matter of a team having one necro. We’re back to the old days of double ranger double Ele being unkillable while having tones of damage. Now teams are bringing 2 necros and if they work together properly. “I’m being trained” “fearing him” “stAnd still I’m healing you” “he’s down grenades on his body” “epidemic the body” “they just wiped” “nice job guys”

You know how many times that conversation was had last night

Just saying. Are there comps to combat it? Oh absolutely. But don’t say “oh noobs didn’t cc the necro and time their condi clear”. As an Ele, only way I have enough condi clear is if I do no damage.

I have seen 2 comps total that deal with the 2 necro team. And I’ll tell you right now, they don’t run guardians.

S – None (due to recent nerfs)

A – mesmer, ele, guardian, necro, engie

B – Rangers, Thief, Warrior

C – Actually empty for a change.

I play as a warrior. Lets get everyone to A!

S = Necromancer
A = Warrior, Elementalist, Thief, Mesmer, Guardian
B = Engineer
C = Ranger

Why is ranger so low now? Cause we cant afk BM anymore? Traps and spirits are still very viable builds.

It’s highly amusing seeing Tier-S Necromancer. It seems like there are people who are still in shock and need to understand what’s happening to them.

Tier S
None

Tier A
++ Guardian
+ Mesmer
+ Elementalist
= Engineer
= Necromancer

Tier B
+ Thief
+ Ranger

Tier
- Warrior

Tier S
- Mesmer (always has been)

Tier A
- Elementalist

Tier B
- Guardian
- Ranger
- Engineer
- Necro

Tier C
- Thief

Tier D
- Warrior

Tier OP
Mesmer

Tier A
Elementalist
Guardian

Tier B
Thief
Warrior
Necromancer
Ranger

Tier C
Engineer

Tier S
I think this is actually empty for once

Tier A
- Mesmer
- Guardian
- Ranger
- Thief (borderline between A and B)
- Elementalist

Tier B
- Engineer

Tier C
- Warrior… almost in tier B

I main a warrior, also play ranger and guard here and there, this is based on what I’m most confident engaging 1vs1 and overall utility they bring to a team.

Rangers are going down..Dont know how much,lets wait and see if the nerf on pets was to much or not.

Dardamaniac.1295:

Rangers are going down..Dont know how much,lets wait and see if the nerf on pets was to much or not.

Yes, because pets are all the ranger was….

I already said it, spirits and traps are still very viable. I was a BM home point bunker for my team pre patch. Post patch I am running spirits and can 1v1 a far point assaulter coming to my point equally if not better with this build without sacrificing my sustain or survivability that I had before.

Just because other classes got stronger does not imply the ranger got weaker, and just because you cant afk use your pet doesnt mean the ranger is done.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Dardamaniac.1295:

Rangers are going down..Dont know how much,lets wait and see if the nerf on pets was to much or not.

Yes, because pets are all the ranger was….

I already said it, spirits and traps are still very viable. I was a BM home point bunker for my team pre patch. Post patch I am running spirits and can 1v1 a far point assaulter coming to my point equally if not better with this build without sacrificing my sustain or survivability that I had before.

Just because other classes got stronger does not imply the ranger got weaker, and just because you cant afk use your pet doesnt mean the ranger is done.

Spirit builds lol

I’d say Necros and Mesmers on top of the food chain and everyone else more or less at the same level.

Spirits are not viable, Maybe if you could have unbound spirits as a master trait, even then they need some sort of aoe protection.

I can’t speak for offensive builds but Ranger can bunker as good or better then before now, Killing people however is much harder.

I had a 30 minute duel with an engi, where I got down to like 20% maybe twice, which I was extremely happy with because thats much better then before the patch where Engis would face roll me.

The issue being for Damage builds, before the patch they were not Viable, Traps was and then was no longer, nothing changed enough to make damage builds for rangers better. A few things damage wise were buff a little, but when you subtract the overall damage removed from pets BM or not, there is not a large difference.

I find it amusing that I made this thread 4 months ago and it’s still going strong.

I guess I’ll update the OP list this Sunday, 5pm eastern.

I saw some people running around with dps guard, seemed way strong.

Let’s not debate the pro’s and cons of each class. Keep it on Topic with a list you “believe” is accurate. Debate the class nerfs/buffs on the class forums please.

A: messmer, guardian, ele

B: engi, necro,

C: thief, ranger, warrior

My personal list based on required skill=reward relation

Tier S- ( 0=10)
None

Tier A- ( 2=10 )
Mesmer
Guardian

Tier B- ( 5=10)
Elementalist
Thief
Necro
Engineer
Ranger

Tier C-( 8=10)
Warrior

Tier D- ( 10=10 )
None

End result , mesmer and guardian are easier to play compared to warriors, while still having max reward, by contrast warriors require the highest level of skill to obtain same level of reward

Once warrior receive adequate buffs ( 1 more condition removal tool , more or less ) the game will be truly balanced in my eyes

The mix of burning and terror pushes necromancers overboard, but I’m not sure about tier S just yet. The class still falls over to focus fire like no one else.

Arheundel.6451:

My personal list based on required skill=reward relation

Tier S- ( 0=10)
None

Tier A- ( 2=10 )
Mesmer
Guardian

Tier B- ( 5=10)
Elementalist
Thief
Necro
Engineer
Ranger

Tier C-( 8=10)
Warrior

Tier D- ( 10=10 )
None

End result , mesmer and guardian are easier to play compared to warriors, while still having max reward, by contrast warriors require the highest level of skill to obtain same level of reward

Once warrior receive adequate buffs ( 1 more condition removal tool , more or less ) the game will be truly balanced in my eyes

+1

Tier S-
none

Tier A-
Mesmer
Guardian
Elementalist
Thief
Engineer
Ranger
Necromancer

Tier B-
Svanir
Chieftain Utahein
Red/Blue Lord

Tier C-
trebuchet

Tier D-
Warrior

no joke i think i have a harder time killing the treb than a warrior, haha and this is coming from someone who only plays warrior.

S
Ranger

A
Elementalist
Guardian (goes S when it comes to pure bunkering)
Mesmer
Thief

B
Necromancer
Engineer
Warrior

Ppl that say warr suck should just try some other build or l2p and less cry, cuz there are many good warrior teams in tPvP where warriors just dominate. Meaning in specific situation they could be put on S tier.

Tho in A tier are classes that can do good in every team composition vs any oponent, but tier B classes are only good in certain composition and with good comunication. The S tier ….. thats just my preferance, that op regen, dmg and survival huehue :p.

How about one for WvW? It would go something like this:

A) perma-stealth Thief

B) no class/spec this close to A
C) no class/spec this close to A

D) other thieves

E) Mesmer, elementalist
F) Guardian, engineer
G) everyone else

Ostricheggs.3742:

violentlycar.5267:

Why do you have engineers so low, Ostrich? Stun break on Elixir R being removed hurt them that much?

Yes, the ramifications of this change are much larger than it would be on any other class. THe engi has already suffered nerfs to their “usable” stun breaks before. Elixir R was the last hope. It didn’t require you to spec for the cooldown because it was already pretty low, it refilled endurance and it gave us a rez utility that, when specced properly, could be used adequately for a burst of condition clear and a self rez.

This allowed us to drop a LOT of defensive mechanisms in favor of damage or other forms of defense (my favorite was backpack regenerator, pretty strong).

Now that elixir R has been destroyed we can either revert back to S (a crappy stun break in and of itself as well as having an extreme cooldown that begs for fast-acting elixirs just to make usable half the time) or go to slick shoes (the best part of slick shoes is now the stun break… have fun with that)

Simply put, the R nerf had massive ramifications for engi and I knew of no viable build on engineer that didn’t use elixir R. Not because it’s an overpowered self-rez, but because it was the best stun break that we had on a utility starved class.

Oh, and everything else got buffed in terms of them vs engi. Did I mention necros are kittenedly overpowered beyond belief? Not since shattered might gave 3 stacks of might have I seen something that stupid.

I’ll be on my warrior actually doing stuff for my team

I still rate engy at top of the tier. They still have really good condi removal, and the most knockbacks of any profession which makes them great bunkers because a good bunker doesn’t take all the damage and get rid of it, good bunkers avoid damage via knockbacks and with automated response you avoid all condi which makes you avoid everything (including fears) but being knockbacked. Also with the amount of knockbacks a engy has they can easily take points and eventually capture them in 1v1 scenario. Which makes them a good offensive far point bunker as well as close point bunker…

Was going to say they got decent knockdown removal, but I just logged in and saw they nerfed they elixirs knockdown removal which is pretty much bullkitten if you ask me. But they still the best in my mind, I don’t play ostrich eggs dps engy so maybe the dps engies suck now, but the bunker ones are still good because they the throw mine is still on same timer and that can be a life saver.

I still don’t get how battering ram is on longer cooldown than throw mine, throw mine hits multiple targets, is also a ranged knockback with less cooldown… while battering ram is on a longer cooldown, hits 1 target, the blowout isn’t that great (not like its like the bomb blowout, which I think it should be), and you gotta literally stand right next to them to use it which can be avoided easily, if they added a charge to it where you rush to the person and blowout them, it would be worth it but even though I land it most times getting close to them and using it but they don’t blowout in the direction I want them to as in throw mine I can position it to where I want them to be knocked back which is out of the node. Although the F1 component is better because mine field kittening sucks because the damage is baby damage and you cant move for like 2 seconds just to lay them down I don’t even bother with this skill its garbage, but the F1 component on battering ram is too narrow and also avoided easily and has a slight delay also the range isn’t far enough, whenever I notice someone about to run hes just a little bit too far and avoids it.

The only class that I think is stupid to be playing bunker is ranger, the key of being bunker is holding a point, rangers suck at holding points all they do is try to burst you so you don’t come but after there burst they cant do anything to you. It would be nice to see rangers being the class that takes bunkers off there points by actually able to kill people by sniping them, but anet is dumb and rangers cant shoot bunkers off there points because they don’t deal enough damage and ranged damage isn’t enough to get a bunker. Hence worthless class, I hate rangers hate them on my team. They aint worst at anything, but sure aint good at anything either.

Edit: Knockbacks in this game are extremely underrated, engineers are the kings of them that’s why they are the best. Conquer mode isn’t for dps only or bunker only, its for those that can neut points and hold points and that’s what bunker engy does best. 0 0 30 30 10 ftw. Oh and with elixir S you invincible which means your not holding your point your giving it away is what your doing and just staying alive… You need to go elixir C the condi to boon transfers helps tremendously more than 3 seconds of invulnerable.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to come out of my lurk mode for a bit and let you guys know that we are watching this thread on the balance team.

Keep it constructive, but keep going, we love reading the debate!

Great, I love you ArenaNet

Arheundel.6451:

My personal list based on required skill=reward relation

Tier S- ( 0=10)
None

Tier A- ( 2=10 )
Mesmer
Guardian

Tier B- ( 5=10)
Elementalist
Thief
Necro
Engineer
Ranger

Tier C-( 8=10)
Warrior

Tier D- ( 10=10 )
None

End result , mesmer and guardian are easier to play compared to warriors, while still having max reward, by contrast warriors require the highest level of skill to obtain same level of reward

Once warrior receive adequate buffs ( 1 more condition removal tool , more or less ) the game will be truly balanced in my eyes

Similar feelings.