Guild Wars 2

ghaleon.2861:

tanztante.6532:

well, to be honest, i always pictured the thief to be doing exactly that and i still think the thief should be the hard counter to every zerker spec in the game. every other profession can endure a thief long enough and even win. plus, i don’t really want to discuss this, because i am a really really terrible thief and i cannot even know if this is true in general.

Then enjoy the bunker celestial cheese comp /thread

You’re wrong on so many levels it isn’t even funny anymore, I don’t know where to start… First, the main argument that thief counters every zerker spec. Lets go through the classes, btw. I’m always referring to a d/p thief, not s/d.

1. Zerker Warrior is just bad due to being a one-trick-pony (evis / 100b)
2. Zerker Ranger is quite a thread to thieves cuz u have to blow 2 gapclosers to get on him, while one is a stunbreak and the other your daze/boonsteal. If the ranger isn’t caught in a rlly bad spot, he usually has the upper hand. A good Ranger will completely troll you by starting rapid fire when you put down black powder, the channel will kill you while stealthing
3. Zekrer Engis are, like warriors, one-trick-ponies
4. Tbh I haven’t seen a power nec since lich nerf, therefore cant really say something about it…
5. Zerker scepter eles got a solid 50% chance I’d say. Due to tripple block and invuln (if running focus), they can mitigate a lot of your damage while they deal crazy amounts of damage. Phoenix, the hardest hitting skill, can be cast w/o target into sr or black powder.
6. Zerker guardians wreck thieves, period.
7. Thieves usually got the upper hand against mesmers, eventough when the mesmer dodges the steal he has a solid chance. Since steal is instant, doding it is a lot about expierence and predicting.

Something to add to all the steal-haters. We invest 4 traits (8 Points) into this 1 skill. Yea it is powerful, but dont forget if you fail it more than once (sometimes once is already enough), you isntantly lost your 1v1.

As you may see “countering every zerker spec” is just plain wrong. The only zerker spec truly countered is mesmer. And now it gets interesting. In the quote above you say, that we obviously want the celstial chees comp to continue. Therefore I assume that you’re refering to teamq (where you can actually decide which comp you run). And this is the point where I call l2p. Not directly towards you, but to your team. If you’re running a mesmer and your team isn’t peeling for you, you’re doing it wrong. However if my assumption is wrong and you’re referring to soloq, then you just got to get used to it. Every1 gets countered by a certain spec.

One point I agree with you is, that consume plasma is too much. Remove the aegis and it’s pretty balanced.

To the last one, celestial existing due to thief. What a joke. The problem is that thief/mesmer is faster between nodes that most other roamers so you pick these two, plus most celestial bunker builds are more viable than their zerker counterparts. d/d ele is just incredibly strong with the amount of protection and cleanse you get, espically when you add the mightstacking, same goes for staff ele. As I mentioned above, warrior zerker is imo useless. The celestial builds are just the best you can get out of the class, that’s why it is so popular. Compared to zerker amulet you loose quite a lot of power and some crit chance. But then you just go mighstacking like crazy and pick your thief with pack runes, tadaa 2 sustainers with zerker dmg…

josh.7390:

ghaleon.2861:

tanztante.6532:

well, to be honest, i always pictured the thief to be doing exactly that and i still think the thief should be the hard counter to every zerker spec in the game. every other profession can endure a thief long enough and even win. plus, i don’t really want to discuss this, because i am a really really terrible thief and i cannot even know if this is true in general.

Then enjoy the bunker celestial cheese comp /thread

You’re wrong on so many levels it isn’t even funny anymore, I don’t know where to start… First, the main argument that thief counters every zerker spec. Lets go through the classes, btw. I’m always referring to a d/p thief, not s/d.

1. Zerker Warrior is just bad due to being a one-trick-pony (evis / 100b)
2. Zerker Ranger is quite a thread to thieves cuz u have to blow 2 gapclosers to get on him, while one is a stunbreak and the other your daze/boonsteal. If the ranger isn’t caught in a rlly bad spot, he usually has the upper hand. A good Ranger will completely troll you by starting rapid fire when you put down black powder, the channel will kill you while stealthing
3. Zekrer Engis are, like warriors, one-trick-ponies
4. Tbh I haven’t seen a power nec since lich nerf, therefore cant really say something about it…
5. Zerker scepter eles got a solid 50% chance I’d say. Due to tripple block and invuln (if running focus), they can mitigate a lot of your damage while they deal crazy amounts of damage. Phoenix, the hardest hitting skill, can be cast w/o target into sr or black powder.
6. Zerker guardians wreck thieves, period.
7. Thieves usually got the upper hand against mesmers, eventough when the mesmer dodges the steal he has a solid chance. Since steal is instant, doding it is a lot about expierence and predicting.

Something to add to all the steal-haters. We invest 4 traits (8 Points) into this 1 skill. Yea it is powerful, but dont forget if you fail it more than once (sometimes once is already enough), you isntantly lost your 1v1.

As you may see “countering every zerker spec” is just plain wrong. The only zerker spec truly countered is mesmer. And now it gets interesting. In the quote above you say, that we obviously want the celstial chees comp to continue. Therefore I assume that you’re refering to teamq (where you can actually decide which comp you run). And this is the point where I call l2p. Not directly towards you, but to your team. If you’re running a mesmer and your team isn’t peeling for you, you’re doing it wrong. However if my assumption is wrong and you’re referring to soloq, then you just got to get used to it. Every1 gets countered by a certain spec.

One point I agree with you is, that consume plasma is too much. Remove the aegis and it’s pretty balanced.

To the last one, celestial existing due to thief. What a joke. The problem is that thief/mesmer is faster between nodes that most other roamers so you pick these two, plus most celestial bunker builds are more viable than their zerker counterparts. d/d ele is just incredibly strong with the amount of protection and cleanse you get, espically when you add the mightstacking, same goes for staff ele. As I mentioned above, warrior zerker is imo useless. The celestial builds are just the best you can get out of the class, that’s why it is so popular. Compared to zerker amulet you loose quite a lot of power and some crit chance. But then you just go mighstacking like crazy and pick your thief with pack runes, tadaa 2 sustainers with zerker dmg…

Josh you wasted all this time to write bs……. When did I said celestial exist cause of the thief class? I said classes like ele are forced into a tanky dps role because their zerker spec has no sutain and it’s true that thief hard counters them. And I’m not wrong, I know what I’m talking about, but I’m not gonna waste my time like you writing for an hour pretending you know what you’re saying. Thief hard counters every zerker spec in the game. Their steal abilities are too strong and were created to win every single 1v1. If you want to continue this bs pm in game. Anyways I’m done with this thread, I’m not going to keep wasting my time, explaining every noob here over and over again the same thing when they have no clue wtf their saying. PZ

ghaleon.2861:

Cam Ron.4170:

ghaleon.2861:

Cam Ron.4170:

Cynz.9437:

ghaleon.2861:

Kolly.9872:

ghaleon.2861:

But back on topic, The only zerker spec that shuts down a thief is “Medi Guard”.

Then NERF “Meditation Guardian” cos thief has no chance against that build. As you said every zerker spec should have a chance to equally fight vs other zerker specs right?

but ppl don’t use dps guard in tpvp , a serious team doesn’t…

but but but srs teams run only celestial bunker now not thieves

bingo… and we all know how thieves (anybody really) fair against celestial bunkers

Only NA nabs run bunker comps, EU is all about that roamer burst comp.

only nabs cry about thieves, probably the weakest class in all of spvp right now.

lol weakest class nice joke, I kill ppl on thief while eating a sandwich. And we both know who the nab between us is “YOU” before calling other ppl nabs, look at yourself in the mirror first. Lol turret engi player

I only play thief and necromancer. I was thief named Cam Ron on in temple of silent storm trying to teach you how to 1v1 that thief you kept losing to before coming here to post this thread. At first you were crying in map chat “omg can i plz get a 1v1” after the enemy team took advantage of your careless positioning. Then, when the thief 1v1’d you about 3 times in a row, you just talked map chat about how broken thief is., sealing the loss for us. Just annoying when my teammate’s ego gets hurt and they fail to take the rest of the game seriously

Ill get on my zerker necro, get on your Zerk thief and show me how thief shuts down ALL zerker specs besides guardian. Power necro kittens on thief to broski. After I smash you with 80%+ hp remaining, you need to go back and edit every post to say “except guardian AND power necro”

you seriously fell off since your hambow got nerfed lol.

Also, who told you thief shuts down Fresh Air ele? Fresh air ele atm is stronger than any thief spec. Haven’t played much ele and im terrible at it, but it’ll probably rock your thief as well

ghaleon.2861:

josh.7390:

ghaleon.2861:

tanztante.6532:

well, to be honest, i always pictured the thief to be doing exactly that and i still think the thief should be the hard counter to every zerker spec in the game. every other profession can endure a thief long enough and even win. plus, i don’t really want to discuss this, because i am a really really terrible thief and i cannot even know if this is true in general.

Then enjoy the bunker celestial cheese comp /thread

You’re wrong on so many levels it isn’t even funny anymore, I don’t know where to start… First, the main argument that thief counters every zerker spec. Lets go through the classes, btw. I’m always referring to a d/p thief, not s/d.

1. Zerker Warrior is just bad due to being a one-trick-pony (evis / 100b)
2. Zerker Ranger is quite a thread to thieves cuz u have to blow 2 gapclosers to get on him, while one is a stunbreak and the other your daze/boonsteal. If the ranger isn’t caught in a rlly bad spot, he usually has the upper hand. A good Ranger will completely troll you by starting rapid fire when you put down black powder, the channel will kill you while stealthing
3. Zekrer Engis are, like warriors, one-trick-ponies
4. Tbh I haven’t seen a power nec since lich nerf, therefore cant really say something about it…
5. Zerker scepter eles got a solid 50% chance I’d say. Due to tripple block and invuln (if running focus), they can mitigate a lot of your damage while they deal crazy amounts of damage. Phoenix, the hardest hitting skill, can be cast w/o target into sr or black powder.
6. Zerker guardians wreck thieves, period.
7. Thieves usually got the upper hand against mesmers, eventough when the mesmer dodges the steal he has a solid chance. Since steal is instant, doding it is a lot about expierence and predicting.

Something to add to all the steal-haters. We invest 4 traits (8 Points) into this 1 skill. Yea it is powerful, but dont forget if you fail it more than once (sometimes once is already enough), you isntantly lost your 1v1.

As you may see “countering every zerker spec” is just plain wrong. The only zerker spec truly countered is mesmer. And now it gets interesting. In the quote above you say, that we obviously want the celstial chees comp to continue. Therefore I assume that you’re refering to teamq (where you can actually decide which comp you run). And this is the point where I call l2p. Not directly towards you, but to your team. If you’re running a mesmer and your team isn’t peeling for you, you’re doing it wrong. However if my assumption is wrong and you’re referring to soloq, then you just got to get used to it. Every1 gets countered by a certain spec.

One point I agree with you is, that consume plasma is too much. Remove the aegis and it’s pretty balanced.

To the last one, celestial existing due to thief. What a joke. The problem is that thief/mesmer is faster between nodes that most other roamers so you pick these two, plus most celestial bunker builds are more viable than their zerker counterparts. d/d ele is just incredibly strong with the amount of protection and cleanse you get, espically when you add the mightstacking, same goes for staff ele. As I mentioned above, warrior zerker is imo useless. The celestial builds are just the best you can get out of the class, that’s why it is so popular. Compared to zerker amulet you loose quite a lot of power and some crit chance. But then you just go mighstacking like crazy and pick your thief with pack runes, tadaa 2 sustainers with zerker dmg…

Josh you wasted all this time to write bs……. When did I said celestial exist cause of the thief class? I said classes like ele are forced into a tanky dps role because their zerker spec has no sutain and it’s true that thief hard counters them. And I’m not wrong, I know what I’m talking about, but I’m not gonna waste my time like you writing for an hour pretending you know what you’re saying. Thief hard counters every zerker spec in the game. Their steal abilities are too strong and were created to win every single 1v1. If you want to continue this bs pm in game. Anyways I’m done with this thread, I’m not going to keep wasting my time, explaining every noob here over and over again the same thing when they have no clue wtf their saying. PZ

ok mr PRO thank you for your time, we will take your issue into consideration.

at some point, kitten in here went south.... is it so hard to actually discuss those issues and stay reasonable for a second?

Cam Ron.4170:

ghaleon.2861:

Cam Ron.4170:

ghaleon.2861:

Cam Ron.4170:

Cynz.9437:

ghaleon.2861:

Kolly.9872:

ghaleon.2861:

But back on topic, The only zerker spec that shuts down a thief is “Medi Guard”.

Then NERF “Meditation Guardian” cos thief has no chance against that build. As you said every zerker spec should have a chance to equally fight vs other zerker specs right?

but ppl don’t use dps guard in tpvp , a serious team doesn’t…

but but but srs teams run only celestial bunker now not thieves

bingo… and we all know how thieves (anybody really) fair against celestial bunkers

Only NA nabs run bunker comps, EU is all about that roamer burst comp.

only nabs cry about thieves, probably the weakest class in all of spvp right now.

lol weakest class nice joke, I kill ppl on thief while eating a sandwich. And we both know who the nab between us is “YOU” before calling other ppl nabs, look at yourself in the mirror first. Lol turret engi player

I only play thief and necromancer. I was thief named Cam Ron on in temple of silent storm trying to teach you how to 1v1 that thief you kept losing to before coming here to post this thread. At first you were crying in map chat “omg can i plz get a 1v1” after the enemy team took advantage of your careless positioning. Then, when the thief 1v1’d you about 3 times in a row, you just talked map chat about how broken thief is., sealing the loss for us. Just annoying when my teammate’s ego gets hurt and they fail to take the rest of the game seriously

Ill get on my zerker necro, get on your Zerk thief and show me how thief shuts down ALL zerker specs besides guardian. Power necro kittens on thief to broski. After I smash you with 80%+ hp remaining, you need to go back and edit every post to say “except guardian AND power necro”

you seriously fell off since your hambow got nerfed lol.

Also, who told you thief shuts down Fresh Air ele? Fresh air ele atm is stronger than any thief spec. Haven’t played much ele and im terrible at it, but it’ll probably rock your thief as well

I’m pretty sure everytime I faced you I smashed you into little pieces and everytime I went down is because I’m fighting somebody and all the sudden somebody else joins the fight. And yes you were playing kittenter turret engi on skyhammer and I schooled you so hard you cried. It’s funny how you make up so much bullkitten when you’re kittening awful. Bring a parachute when you face me on skyhammer. Delusional noob and we can settle this in game any time. Marvin’s server, just tell me when.

This is entertaining, go on.
/grabs popcorn

ghaleon.2861:

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Most teams are starting to run a comp along the lines of 2 Elementalists, 1 Engineer, 1 Warrior, and 1 random. The random class is generally a Warrior, Engineer, Necromancer, or Thief. In terms or OPness ATM, I’d say Elementalist and Engineers are both bigger problems than Thieves.

I know that, but that’s not the point. Ele is forced to play d/d, because s/d or s/f has no sustain and a thief will eat the ele alive if he plays anything else than d/d or staff bunker.

Hmm i’m not sure you know what you’re talking about here. Elem have no sustain?? That’s a joke right? Shield after shield and boom water attunement, it’s like having to kill an elem, twice, thrice. They reset the fight at will. I seriously do not see your point considering the number of nerfs thief got the past two years. Thieves are in a very weak position right now. You have to really use all of your wits to stay alive as a thief in this meta. You do know that having a zerk build means you will also die pretty fast too so what’s the problem here?

Honestly this sounds like working as intended. The best counter against zerker team spam is a thief. That’s the way it should be. Say you get what you want and even more nerf thief. Whats going to counter your zerker spam now? Bunkers? lol. Or did you just want a build without any counter?

The thief countering the zerker build has his own set of counters that can easily screw him up. Just ask a teammate using one of these builds for help.

There is really nothing to see here folks – This guys has so many games played I see him all the time in Solo q – Something like 6k+ games (when are you gunagetgud?)

The only thing consistent is his rage after every game – hilarious

shimmerless.4560:

And Ghaleon you need to work out your stress issues, yell into a pillow or something

This does help.

http://www.wikihow.com/Get-Rid-of-Anger

Narkodx.1472:

There is really nothing to see here folks – This guys has so many games played I see him all the time in Solo q – Something like 6k+ games (when are you gunagetgud?)

The only thing consistent is his rage after every game – hilarious

I am good, but thanks for the hate <3

Calypso.2578:

shimmerless.4560:

And Ghaleon you need to work out your stress issues, yell into a pillow or something

This does help.

http://www.wikihow.com/Get-Rid-of-Anger

Anger is medicine anger is life !

Our steal skills are there so we should win every 1v1? We don’t even 1v1 unless we have too…

I don’t see a problem here. If there was no hard counter available, then too many people would be running around with zerker, right?

Isn’t it the case with engineers and elementalists though ? They lack explicit counters available, and that’s why so many people are running them..

This thread is a joke right? In PvP, all thieves CAN run is zerk, and it’s in the worst place it’s been in a long time. If you are getting rolled by a thief in this meta, it’s because the thief is playing better than you, not because the thief hard counters you.

CobOfCorn.6352:

This thread is a joke right? In PvP, all thieves CAN run is zerk, and it’s in the worst place it’s been in a long time. If you are getting rolled by a thief in this meta, it’s because the thief is playing better than you, not because the thief hard counters you.

LOL

ghaleon.2861:

Then enjoy the boring bunker celestial cheese comp /thread

Cheese comp… lol. Cheese implies using a minimal effort pattern repeatedly to defeat opponents regularly identified as vulnerable to that pattern, and depending on that pattern. Celestial bunker… is like the opposite of cheese. Zerker rotation-oriented builds… now there’s where to look for cheese.

I think something that needs to be more clear here is that this game isnt about 1v1 and during matches there will often be group fights. As a thief you have a harder time “making a difference” for your team when several players colide solely because the class relies on clever stealth use/dodges, and knowing when to act and withdraw. It’s a hit and run concept, but it doesnt help with stealth in group fights or being “in the fray” with dodges as the thief is the easiest and most logical target to shut down. That is the tradeoff for the thief. It’s a different dynamic in a group fight should you switch from thief to for example necro which can take more due to different mechanic and possibilities.

Each class should bring something to the fight, and thief is a good roamer, and while it can be strong in 1v1, it may not be “just as easily” done vs class X (such as a necro, engi, guard) depending on the meta.

After rereading this, because of boredom, I think I finally realized the issue Ghaleon has – though completely worded wrong and likely a bit clouded with bias here and there…

Thieves are capable of running Zerk, engage, disengage and making unfavoured fights quickly… This is in essence fine, this is how they are designed… They are not super powerful in 1v1’s, because they excel in mobility and making unfair numbers – while being suspicable to AoE and other glass bursts when caught unaware…

However, because of this mobility design, they can do something no zerker class can do – and that is forcing you to guard your points…
A zerker Elementalist is capable of killing thieves, a zerk Necro is, Mesmer etc. But none of these have the option to stay on the target and disengage when needed as much as Thieves do – they are designed this way… However, in a game where you need to protect nodes, a Thief gets a huge advantage if most members of the enemy teams are caught up in fights, and he can quickly roam, score a decap and come back… It requires either a lot of attention, constantly spotting Thieves and get your quickest class back to the node as soon as you see the Thief going for it…

This is still not an issue, up untill you think about the fact that the only real way to counter the design of a thief is rolling a Thief… Only a Thief can stay on a Thief reliably, as no other Zerker class is able to engage and disengage as quickly…

The role a thief has is completely unique to the class, just as much as Guardians were said to be unparalelled in support…
Other classes have a class or build that will fit a role within the team much the same as the class; point holders are Warriors, Necromancers, Elementalists, Engineers – AoE control are Staff Eles, Necromancers etc etc.
But Guardians, though fading away now, and Thieves stay unique – giving no other class the option to ever fit within the role a thief has…

However, the design of a Thief can be fought – and this is done with self-sustaining and bunker builds on any node, giving the Thief no way of getting to a point quickly to decap and move back “Forcing” classes to run these specs…

So the bottom line of what he is trying to say, I guess, is that no Zerker class is able to fit the role of a Thief… Whether this is a good or bad thing is up for discussion – I’d personally say you can build around the philosophy of not having a Thief, and play accordingly to it…

@GoogleBrandon.5073: and then we have portal bombs, if not even double portal bombs where mesmer can bring entire team to defend point…

Cynz.9437:

@GoogleBrandon.5073: and then we have portal bombs, if not even double portal bombs where mesmer can bring entire team to defend point…

Ah clever, I figured that someone might’ve pulled the Mesmer portal arguement

Unlike any other class, the Mesmer has indeed the capability of zoning the whole team to a point if needed, quickly applying pressure to a point – this is different from a thief who cannot zone the whole team, but rather himself…

A Mesmer, unlike a Thief, does not have the capability to quickly port back and forth at will, granted neither can a Thief, since it requires mobility rather than a portal…
The role of a Thief is herefore different from a Mesmer which is applying pressure to a point – by Portal, Null-Field, Chaos Storm and AoE interrupts, whereas a thief is made to singlehandidly make uneven fights by picking out single targets – there is no heavy point control involved here…

Both play a role, and although with Portal it seems similar, it is not… And again, I am by no means someone who dislikes the role of a Thief since you can build your team around it… Does this mean you need to build tankier to survive since Thieves can make uneven fight? Maybe…

This thread is not even about that though.. he is simply QQing because he plays zerker mesmer and gets rekt by zerker thieves

This is not about Thieves having a role in conquest that no one can replace them for being mobility and decap – things you pointed out that I agree with

While that would have made a much better thread this guy is simply QQing for 1v1 reasons – none of which are warranted

/thread

Narkodx.1472:

This thread is not even about that though.. he is simply QQing because he plays zerker mesmer and gets rekt by zerker thieves

This is not about Thieves having a role in conquest that no one can replace them for being mobility and decap – things you pointed out that I agree with

While that would have made a much better thread this guy is simply QQing for 1v1 reasons – none of which are warranted

/thread

I guess…

I just wanted to deduce it to a more interesting topic with less name-calling, but I figure this is pointless anyway…

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Cynz.9437:

@GoogleBrandon.5073: and then we have portal bombs, if not even double portal bombs where mesmer can bring entire team to defend point…

Ah clever, I figured that someone might’ve pulled the Mesmer portal arguement

Unlike any other class, the Mesmer has indeed the capability of zoning the whole team to a point if needed, quickly applying pressure to a point – this is different from a thief who cannot zone the whole team, but rather himself…

A Mesmer, unlike a Thief, does not have the capability to quickly port back and forth at will, granted neither can a Thief, since it requires mobility rather than a portal…
The role of a Thief is herefore different from a Mesmer which is applying pressure to a point – by Portal, Null-Field, Chaos Storm and AoE interrupts, whereas a thief is made to singlehandidly make uneven fights by picking out single targets – there is no heavy point control involved here…

Both play a role, and although with Portal it seems similar, it is not… And again, I am by no means someone who dislikes the role of a Thief since you can build your team around it… Does this mean you need to build tankier to survive since Thieves can make uneven fight? Maybe…

if thief was real issue everyone would run medi guards

Narkodx.1472:

This thread is not even about that though.. he is simply QQing because he plays zerker mesmer and gets rekt by zerker thieves

This is not about Thieves having a role in conquest that no one can replace them for being mobility and decap – things you pointed out that I agree with

While that would have made a much better thread this guy is simply QQing for 1v1 reasons – none of which are warranted

/thread

I’m not qqing, at all….. the thread was about theif countering zerkers, but you all decided to take it to a different direction. And I don’t get rekt by anyone, even though thief does hard counter my class hard. I’ve learned how to deal with them a long time ago. Idk why you all think this is a qq post, it’s not. If you all want to deny to yourselves that thief does in fact hard counters other zerkers specs go ahead. But don’t come here talking bullkitten like know me and know how I play, cause you don’t. This is why I like to stay away from the forums, only trolls……… that don’t know wth they’re talking about and can’t have a discussion about what’s being discussed like man. /thread

Oniyui.8279:

ghaleon.2861:

Then enjoy the boring bunker celestial cheese comp /thread

Cheese comp… lol. Cheese implies using a minimal effort pattern repeatedly to defeat opponents regularly identified as vulnerable to that pattern, and depending on that pattern. Celestial bunker… is like the opposite of cheese. Zerker rotation-oriented builds… now there’s where to look for cheese.

Lol , nice joke thx for the laugh.

Narkodx.1472:

There is really nothing to see here folks – This guys has so many games played I see him all the time in Solo q – Something like 6k+ games (when are you gunagetgud?)

The only thing consistent is his rage after every game – hilarious

I’m not good, I am great

ghaleon.2861:

Narkodx.1472:

This thread is not even about that though.. he is simply QQing because he plays zerker mesmer and gets rekt by zerker thieves

This is not about Thieves having a role in conquest that no one can replace them for being mobility and decap – things you pointed out that I agree with

While that would have made a much better thread this guy is simply QQing for 1v1 reasons – none of which are warranted

/thread

I’m not qqing, at all….. the thread was about theif countering zerkers, but you all decided to take it to a different direction. And I don’t get rekt by anyone, even though thief does hard counter my class hard. I’ve learned how to deal with them a long time ago. Idk why you all think this is a qq post, it’s not. If you all want to deny to yourselves that thief does in fact hard counters other zerkers specs go ahead. But don’t come here talking bullkitten like know me and know how I play, cause you don’t. This is why I like to stay away from the forums, only trolls……… that don’t know wth they’re talking about can’t have a discussion about what’s being discussed like man.

We’re saying that this is a QQ thread because that is exactly what it is, whether you intended it to be or not.

Someone has said it best; Thieves are able to fill a unique role that negatively effects zerker builds the most, but the only thing that Thieves hard counter now are newer people who don’t understand how thieves work.

Nobody is denying that Thieves are strong, but we know how to beat them. To say that they ‘hard counter’ all zerker sets is just incorrect and to continue to complain about it does more of a disservice to you than it does to us.

Noah.9654:

ghaleon.2861:

Narkodx.1472:

This thread is not even about that though.. he is simply QQing because he plays zerker mesmer and gets rekt by zerker thieves

This is not about Thieves having a role in conquest that no one can replace them for being mobility and decap – things you pointed out that I agree with

While that would have made a much better thread this guy is simply QQing for 1v1 reasons – none of which are warranted

/thread

I’m not qqing, at all….. the thread was about theif countering zerkers, but you all decided to take it to a different direction. And I don’t get rekt by anyone, even though thief does hard counter my class hard. I’ve learned how to deal with them a long time ago. Idk why you all think this is a qq post, it’s not. If you all want to deny to yourselves that thief does in fact hard counters other zerkers specs go ahead. But don’t come here talking bullkitten like know me and know how I play, cause you don’t. This is why I like to stay away from the forums, only trolls……… that don’t know wth they’re talking about can’t have a discussion about what’s being discussed like man.

We’re saying that this is a QQ thread because that is exactly what it is, whether you intended it to be or not.

Someone has said it best; Thieves are able to fill a unique role that negatively effects zerker builds the most, but the only thing that Thieves hard counter now are newer people who don’t understand how thieves work.

Nobody is denying that Thieves are strong, but we know how to beat them. To say that they ‘hard counter’ all zerker sets is just incorrect and to continue to complain about it does more of a disservice to you than it does to us.

I know how to beat them too thx… lol But they do hard counter the other zerkers specs. Please get off that denial train… And people can’t say w/e they want… IDGAF

ghaleon.2861:

Noah.9654:

ghaleon.2861:

Narkodx.1472:

This thread is not even about that though.. he is simply QQing because he plays zerker mesmer and gets rekt by zerker thieves

This is not about Thieves having a role in conquest that no one can replace them for being mobility and decap – things you pointed out that I agree with

While that would have made a much better thread this guy is simply QQing for 1v1 reasons – none of which are warranted

/thread

I’m not qqing, at all….. the thread was about theif countering zerkers, but you all decided to take it to a different direction. And I don’t get rekt by anyone, even though thief does hard counter my class hard. I’ve learned how to deal with them a long time ago. Idk why you all think this is a qq post, it’s not. If you all want to deny to yourselves that thief does in fact hard counters other zerkers specs go ahead. But don’t come here talking bullkitten like know me and know how I play, cause you don’t. This is why I like to stay away from the forums, only trolls……… that don’t know wth they’re talking about can’t have a discussion about what’s being discussed like man.

We’re saying that this is a QQ thread because that is exactly what it is, whether you intended it to be or not.

Someone has said it best; Thieves are able to fill a unique role that negatively effects zerker builds the most, but the only thing that Thieves hard counter now are newer people who don’t understand how thieves work.

Nobody is denying that Thieves are strong, but we know how to beat them. To say that they ‘hard counter’ all zerker sets is just incorrect and to continue to complain about it does more of a disservice to you than it does to us.

I know how to beat them too thx… lol But they do hard counter the other zerkers specs. Please get off that denial train… And people can’t say w/e they want… IDGAF

I run a zerker spec, and since the Sept 9th I’ve beaten Thieves consistently. I’ve learned how to beat them—ergo I am not hard countered. If you’re able to beat them, you’re not being hard countered.

At this point, you’re kinda just trolling for attention /:

@Google Brandon

Mesmer and Thief are very similar. Thief provides point pressure through mobility, Mesmer provides point pressure via portal and ranged dps.

Mesmer can do something very strong that thieves can’t do. They can outnumber fights by doing minus 1s to the opposing team. Portal can be used for portal bombs and mobility, but one of its important uses is creating minus 1 scenarios where you leave a portal on an enemy point and force them into a position where they have to either stay and let their team be outnumbered or leave and be decaped.

This is something that the thief doesn’t have. Though they have something similar that isn’t meta, but this doesn’t force minus 1s. It allows for decades, because traps can’t be seen, whereas portals can.

Noah.9654:

ghaleon.2861:

Noah.9654:

ghaleon.2861:

Narkodx.1472:

This thread is not even about that though.. he is simply QQing because he plays zerker mesmer and gets rekt by zerker thieves

This is not about Thieves having a role in conquest that no one can replace them for being mobility and decap – things you pointed out that I agree with

While that would have made a much better thread this guy is simply QQing for 1v1 reasons – none of which are warranted

/thread

I’m not qqing, at all….. the thread was about theif countering zerkers, but you all decided to take it to a different direction. And I don’t get rekt by anyone, even though thief does hard counter my class hard. I’ve learned how to deal with them a long time ago. Idk why you all think this is a qq post, it’s not. If you all want to deny to yourselves that thief does in fact hard counters other zerkers specs go ahead. But don’t come here talking bullkitten like know me and know how I play, cause you don’t. This is why I like to stay away from the forums, only trolls……… that don’t know wth they’re talking about can’t have a discussion about what’s being discussed like man.

We’re saying that this is a QQ thread because that is exactly what it is, whether you intended it to be or not.

Someone has said it best; Thieves are able to fill a unique role that negatively effects zerker builds the most, but the only thing that Thieves hard counter now are newer people who don’t understand how thieves work.

Nobody is denying that Thieves are strong, but we know how to beat them. To say that they ‘hard counter’ all zerker sets is just incorrect and to continue to complain about it does more of a disservice to you than it does to us.

I know how to beat them too thx… lol But they do hard counter the other zerkers specs. Please get off that denial train… And people can’t say w/e they want… IDGAF

I run a zerker spec, and since the Sept 9th I’ve beaten Thieves consistently. I’ve learned how to beat them—ergo I am not hard countered. If you’re able to beat them, you’re not being hard countered.

At this point, you’re kinda just trolling for attention /:

If you’re able to beat them, on a zerker spec other than medi guard… You’re out playing them… And I don’t need attention from a forums full of clueless trolls that are in denial. So, at this point, you’re just being annoying…. /thread

ghaleon.2861:

If you’re able to beat them, on a zerker spec other than medi guard… You’re out playing them… And I don’t need attention from a forums full of clueless trolls that are in denial. So, at this point, you’re just being annoying…. /thread

This is exactly my point. To beat a thief, you have to outplay them. You can’t just faceroll your keyboard and expect to win. If you come across a good thief, you need to step up your game or you will be swept, but you can beat them. I’ve done it.

I don’t think you realize how steep the learning curve is for thieves. You can spot a bad thief a mile away. If the thief is skilled, you have to outplay it and the one with the most skill wins. Simple as that. No need to QQ about lacking the skill.

Noah.9654:

ghaleon.2861:

If you’re able to beat them, on a zerker spec other than medi guard… You’re out playing them… And I don’t need attention from a forums full of clueless trolls that are in denial. So, at this point, you’re just being annoying…. /thread

This is exactly my point. To beat a thief, you have to outplay them. You can’t just faceroll your keyboard and expect to win. If you come across a good thief, you need to step up your game or you will be swept, but you can beat them. I’ve done it.

I don’t think you realize how steep the learning curve is for thieves. You can spot a bad thief a mile away. If the thief is skilled, you have to outplay it and the one with the most skill wins. Simple as that. No need to QQ about lacking the skill.

That’s not your point, because that’s not what you said……. But if you want my point, you can have it… anyways I’m done with this thread. So please Dear Mod close it.

ghaleon.2861:

Cam Ron.4170:

ghaleon.2861:

Cam Ron.4170:

Cynz.9437:

ghaleon.2861:

Kolly.9872:

ghaleon.2861:

But back on topic, The only zerker spec that shuts down a thief is “Medi Guard”.

Then NERF “Meditation Guardian” cos thief has no chance against that build. As you said every zerker spec should have a chance to equally fight vs other zerker specs right?

but ppl don’t use dps guard in tpvp , a serious team doesn’t…

but but but srs teams run only celestial bunker now not thieves

bingo… and we all know how thieves (anybody really) fair against celestial bunkers

Only NA nabs run bunker comps, EU is all about that roamer burst comp.

only nabs cry about thieves, probably the weakest class in all of spvp right now.

lol weakest class nice joke, I kill ppl on thief while eating a sandwich. And we both know who the nab between us is “YOU” before calling other ppl nabs, look at yourself in the mirror first. Lol turret engi player

Weakest =!= Weak

LOL @ghaleon

Dude got lost in his own QQ forgot what the initial point of the thread was

This isn’t a QQ thread I am just stating that Thief hard counters all zerker specs and that is a FACT – no proof no evidence its just a fact since I am top player

ZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzz

Narkodx.1472:

LOL @ghaleon

Dude got lost in his own QQ forgot what the initial point of the thread was

This isn’t a QQ thread I am just stating that Thief hard counters all zerker specs and that is a FACT – no proof no evidence its just a fact since I am top player

ZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzz

typical hater nothing else to say so this how he creates drama. Get good and kitten pzzzzzzzz

ghaleon.2861:

Oniyui.8279:

ghaleon.2861:

Then enjoy the boring bunker celestial cheese comp /thread

Cheese comp… lol. Cheese implies using a minimal effort pattern repeatedly to defeat opponents regularly identified as vulnerable to that pattern, and depending on that pattern. Celestial bunker… is like the opposite of cheese. Zerker rotation-oriented builds… now there’s where to look for cheese.

Lol , nice joke thx for the laugh.

If you don’t know the meaning of cheese don’t use it. Not every meta/OP build is cheese. A build would literally have to run minimal defensive stats and rely on a burst rotation, be it zerker or a condi build, to be even considered for the title. They also often consist of heavy CC and lock players out while they’re being burst down making them great for cheesing noobs and a narrow range of builds with impunity.

The term originated in classic arcade fighting games where players would cheese their friends by repeating the same move or combo repeatedly to win, knowing their friends were inexperienced button mashers that would have to get extremely lucky to stop them.

tl;dr thieves are fine, however lack variety. Don’t nerf, will be useless class. Look for ways to give thieves more playstyles.

After reading this thread, I am going to assume ghaleon is pretty bad, or possibly using information based on very few fights. Scepter focus zerk ele vs zerk thief (any) is actually a really fun fight, requiring fast reactions, and equal skill from each player! I know this because I main thief and also ele, and I am also a moderator of a gambling duel server. I watch many of the best players duel, and one night, I watched one of the best fresh air eles, and d/p thiefs duel over 30 times, sharing wins back and forth all night. I KNOW for a fact that fresh air and thief is a pretty equal fight, and much more entertaining than watching a cele v cele fight. Also, the ranger vs thief is pretty balanced in a situational matter. Generally, the thief has to be smart about his stealth, escaping when invulns are up, avoiding CC (the longbow push back, pet fear, forcing ranger out of longbow). The thief can easily burst a ranger down if he’s stuck in melee and has no more active defense. However, in a team fight, I believe the ranger has a BIG upperhand, because not only does the thief have to decide to attack the ranger, or another target, but if the thief chooses not to attack the ranger, the ranger can roll him in seconds. If he chooses the ranger, his teammates can peel just enough for him for the ranger, to again, roll him in seconds. Zerker mesmer seems to still have a few issues with thief, but I’ve seen mesmers win fights versus thieves as regular shatter. I’m beginning to think shatter may not be the best way to fight a thief anyways. I noticed signet builds handling thieves very well (condi or zerk; condi being off topic, sorry). I feel like thief is in a “decent enough” position right now. On a scale(100% being fully op, 0% being fully underpowered) I believe thief is about a 40 – 45%, due to team fights. In 1v1 situations, I think they are about a 50% – 55%. I’d like to see a thief build that relys more on staying in the fray of combat, dealing good damage over time (not overly bursty), without having to rely on “stay away from combat until target is at 50% hp then burst” as it feels skill-less, and silly because you don’t necessarily have to avoid most of the skills in the team fight, instead, your burst for a few seconds and quickly stealth/range/los back out of combat. I’d enjoy thief more if sword/x was more effective (not like acro/trickery opness) at staying in the fray of combat. Thief is still to squishy to sustain in combat, and if built to sustain, you become subpar (other classes will mitigate better and still deal more damage). I’d like to see different ammulets become more effective for thief. Such as soldiers, barbarians, knights, valky, maybe even rampager, without being too tanky, and still lacking damage. This would be almost impossible because d/p variants could always escape and never die if you give them a hint of tankiness. I feel like the thief playstyle is currently pigeon-held into one style. Elementalist, engis, rangers, warriors, necros, even guardians, have WAY more variety than the thief has available. Haha, notice the only class I didn’t mention was mesmers? Mesmers and thiefs have terrible variety, so requesting to nerf the only thing thieves have going for them, is going to turn the class into a character slot thats always going to sit all the way to the right of the log in screen(no ones going to log on into their thief).

mesmer should not have any counters

ghaleon.2861:

How long are you going to keep the thief class hard countering every other zerker spec in the game. Thief hard counters shatter mesmer, zerker ranger, zerker s/d ele etc. Do think this is fair?? Not only that, they always get the opening cause of their ability to stealth on demand. When they’re losing they can reset the fight and come back and burst you down when all your cd are on recharge. Their steal abilities are seriously op, consume plasma 5 seconds of god mode. How much longer does the balance team needs to realize this? This is why we have so many bunkers in the game.

Here’s a better question.

How do you expect to not die to something you can’t see sneaking up on you when you’re made of glass?

If you are a light armor class and you take no toughness/defense, you are accepting that the reward of the power you get from doing so outweighs the risk that youll blow up if a thief sees you first. do you want to not blow up with no toughness?

And they’re nerfed right now, besides.

Meh. The way this game is designed, I actually think mobility and the ability to force battles or leave them at will is pretty important. Territory control means having that having the movement to do battle where you are needed is pretty great, as is the ability to create outnumbered situations and quickly return to whatever point you left. If your class neglects these characteristics, it should obviously be quite strong, perhaps you wouldn’t influence the rest of the map as much, but you’d need to have a great impact wherever it is you happen to be.

Even if in theory class X vs Thief is a 6 out of 10 1v1 matchup, which is pretty fair and a little bit in X’s favor, Thief’s mobility and ability to control the when and how battles are performed would still give the Thief massive value over class X. It would be as if Mutalisks in Starcraft 2 were not only more mobile and dealt good damage but traded evenly with other, slower units. In order for the other units to retain value (and for Terran and Protoss not to get rekt) they are much stronger and efficient in actual battle.

So for class X to ever really stand a chance to be picked over Thief it’d basically need to have an 8 out of 10 matchup against Thief and be really strong in general. Sure, it’d always be slower and it can’t kill the Thief if the Thief doesn’t overextend, but you trade that for sheer combat power. Once your stuck in, things get wrecked.

TL;DR No reason to play my zerker whatever instead of Thief if I’m just a less agile version of one. From what I understand, there are now a few zerker classes that actually can trade pretty well against Thief if not dominate the fight, though I honestly have no idea. Read a post by someone, I think was Caed, that said zerker Guard plowed Thief, which would be a pretty good example.