Guild Wars 2

Player Character.9467:

Jemmi.6058:

Bright.9160:

Melfice.5091:

Warriors need a nerf and berserker gear also needs a big nerf

People don’t take me on their parties because my build and gear sucks. Please nerf their build and gear so mine doesn’t look so trash.

I have a full zerk warrior, and use full zerk for most of my 80’s.

I support the notion that zerk gear needs nerfing, and more importantly warriors need nerfing.

The damage output I can do on my warrior compared to my other 4 80’s is mind boggling. If I see something like 7-9k damage on a hit from one of my classes, I am like awesome! If I see that on my warrior, I think what’s wrong?

Record hit on warrior = 42k on end of hundred blades, this doesn’t include the several hits before the final of the chain

Record hit on other class = ~11k

You have multiple 80’s and you don’t even know how the attack works?… that number is the SUM OF 8 HITS. Flip over to your combat tab kitten >.>

That’s priceless. I didn’t even finish reading his rambling post, now I wish I would have.

It’s funny how many warriors actually think each number from HB is it’s own attack, so many of them don’t understand that each attack is just adding to the previous number.

Regardless of the ignorance of a few players, there is a very good reason why the PvE trinity of GW2 consists of Warriors, Guardians, and Mesmers, and none of the other classes come remotely close (Except thieves, but only in the case where damage is for a single target, not multiple; lightning hammer eles can also do passably, but are much squishier than a Warrior and the Warrior affords better utility). It is a combination of the following problems:

• Condition damage is pitifully weak in PvE
• Bleed only stacks to 25, and then damage is lost
• Multiple classes applying poison/burning do not stack in dps with each other, while all power-based damage stacks linearly
• Melee damage is always superior to ranged damage
• The Warrior and Guardian have incredible natural bulk, and can afford to melee more safely than other classes in full berserker gear
• Projectile reflects trivialize content more than quickness ever did
• 100B does stupid high damage in all forms of PvE combat

Nerfing 100B by ~10% (and I say this as a Warrior) is only one step in actually fixing the problem that is GW2’s PvE combat.

100B is barely higher than other attacks available to a warrior and other classes have attacks with significantly higher dps…

You know what I used to hate about the warrior in GW1? The fact that by the end of the game, he was pretty dang weak compared to every other class in the game. Granted, I’m not making any claims to be the best player out there, but of the people I used to play with back in the day (ele & necro normally) I would usually be the first one to die.

You know what I love about the gw2 warrior? He isn’t a useless pile of rubbish. The problem with nerfing is that eventually, the warrior would be, and then they’d need to nerf the class that became overpowered/overused in it’s place, and then the next one, then the next one, until all the classes become equally extremely useless.

My opinion? The problem isn’t the warrior, it’s the players. I have a warrior, I have a blast with him, and the guy basically forms the main healing pillar of the group I play with with his shouts. As far as damage goes, I don’t do all that much in comparison – I don’t use the greatsword, I prefer my axe/shield and bow, sometimes a mace/sword for extra blocks. I also don’t wear zerker gear. According to a lot of people in this thread though, I deserve to have the enjoyment of playing a warrior stripped from me because THEY don’t get invited into dungeon parties to farm (something that’s a subset of likeminded people with a single purpose to burn through it as fast as possible to maximize profit – NOT play the game for fun [unless that’s what you think is fun]).

I agree with others – don’t nerf the warrior, buff the other classes as they need it, or work on the game itself, tweak how things work, whatever. Nerfing the game into oblivion is never the answer, just play it and have fun man. Heck, I’ve gotten my ranger alt to 30, and his pet’s do a far better job of tanking then my warrior did at that level. Let’s all not blame the game for choices the players make eh?

Who cares of Wars.

The issue is that PvE design is weak, and DPS breaks it so easily it isn’t even funny.

Fix that, and the “War > Guard/Mes > other classes” issue will disappear (well, trowing in buffs to the “other classes” wouldn’t be a bad idea).

Player Character.9467:

100B is barely higher than other attacks available to a warrior and other classes have attacks with significantly higher dps…

• 100B can crit out for a full 35k with appropriate consumables, vulnerability, and might up
• Full adrenaline Eviscerate can crit for 17k or so with the same setup
• Whirlwind Attack hits for the same as Eviscerate if all hits connect with the same target and with the same setup as above

The difference is astounding and irrevocable. 100B’s entire sequence has the single largest 3-enemy cleaving damage of any one skill in-game. Even with a 10% nerf to PvE only, it would still be stronger than Eviscerate and a perfectly setup Whirlwind Attack.

Rising Dusk.2408:

• 100B can crit out for a full 35k with appropriate consumables, vulnerability, and might up
• Full adrenaline Eviscerate can crit for 17k or so with the same setup
• Whirlwind Attack hits for the same as Eviscerate if all hits connect with the same target and with the same setup as above

The difference is astounding and irrevocable. 100B’s entire sequence has the single largest 3-enemy cleaving damage of any one skill in-game. Even with a 10% nerf to PvE only, it would still be stronger than Eviscerate and a perfectly setup Whirlwind Attack.

I’ve seen 100b hitting for 50k+, but yeah, most of them hit for ~30-35k. Let’s take a look at that number…

35k over 8 hits, that’s 4.375k damage per hit. That’s the same damage I do on my axe autoattack. So, I don’t see why 100b is broken. People just go “OOOOOOHHHH, big numbers!” without even thinking about it.

Anyone who claims that 100b is the problem with warriors doesn’t have a clue…

Rising Dusk.2408:

Player Character.9467:

100B is barely higher than other attacks available to a warrior and other classes have attacks with significantly higher dps…

• 100B can crit out for a full 35k with appropriate consumables, vulnerability, and might up
• Full adrenaline Eviscerate can crit for 17k or so with the same setup
• Whirlwind Attack hits for the same as Eviscerate if all hits connect with the same target and with the same setup as above

The difference is astounding and irrevocable. 100B’s entire sequence has the single largest 3-enemy cleaving damage of any one skill in-game. Even with a 10% nerf to PvE only, it would still be stronger than Eviscerate and a perfectly setup Whirlwind Attack.

100b takes 3.5x as long to do as whirlwind, even if i use your numbers (which aren’t something special) 17kx3.5=59.5k vs 35k. TIME is the important part. I could do way higher dps with attacks that’ll only make 2k’s appear on your screen.

And then there’s the fact that 100b roots you in place…

I don’t think its warrior that needs a nerf as much as other classes needing a buff. However fury needs to have the same thing dine to it that stealth had. Why its trivializing content! Their is absolutely no reason people need fury up 100% of the time.

Player Character.9467:

Jemmi.6058:

Bright.9160:

Melfice.5091:

Warriors need a nerf and berserker gear also needs a big nerf

People don’t take me on their parties because my build and gear sucks. Please nerf their build and gear so mine doesn’t look so trash.

I have a full zerk warrior, and use full zerk for most of my 80’s.

I support the notion that zerk gear needs nerfing, and more importantly warriors need nerfing.

The damage output I can do on my warrior compared to my other 4 80’s is mind boggling. If I see something like 7-9k damage on a hit from one of my classes, I am like awesome! If I see that on my warrior, I think what’s wrong?

Record hit on warrior = 42k on end of hundred blades, this doesn’t include the several hits before the final of the chain

Record hit on other class = ~11k

You have multiple 80’s and you don’t even know how the attack works?… that number is the SUM OF 8 HITS. Flip over to your combat tab kitten >.>

Really? Thank you for the tip.

I assume that is the case for all of my other classes then, in which case the relative value of the hundred blades is still way higher than the highest attacks on the other 4 classes. I will play around with them to see for certain anyway.

EDIT: As we are on the suggestion forum, I’d like to add the suggestion that this sum total damage be more clear. When a value pops above a head of an enemy when I hit it, I expect that value = the damage of the hit. It’s OK that it is the sum, but if so many warriors are like me, then there should be clearer messaging.

I say, don’t nerf, just buff other classes up.

Bright.9160:

Melfice.5091:

Warriors need a nerf and berserker gear also needs a big nerf

People don’t take me on their parties because my build and gear sucks. Please nerf their build and gear so mine doesn’t look so trash.

A lot of the people saying Warrior need a nerf are people who have a warrior.

I have a fully geared Zerker warrior. Whenever I want to play one of my other classes in a damage role, I know I am hindering my group by doing so.

Bright.9160:

35k over 8 hits, that’s 4.375k damage per hit. That’s the same damage I do on my axe autoattack. So, I don’t see why 100b is broken. People just go “OOOOOOHHHH, big numbers!” without even thinking about it.

Anyone who claims that 100b is the problem with warriors doesn’t have a clue…

I’ll humor you for now. Let us assume no quickness, a 20% cooldown reduction (6.4s cooldown), and consistent Might/Vuln. Assuming 35k as the hit sequence over the channeled time of 3.5 seconds is 10k dps, with an uptime of ~55% works out to a total of 5.5k dps if you just used this skill and nothing else. That’s significantly more than Eviscerate or WWA, both of which have longer cooldowns, one of which (WWA) requires better setup, the other of which isn’t AOE (evis). It’s also better than your axe autoattack. I encourage you to math it out and see for yourself.

100 Blades isn’t “the” problem with Warriors, it is “a” problem with Warriors in PvE and is a contributor to the problem at large. The Warrior could do for a minor nerf in PvE, and the other classes and the entire condition damage mechanic could do for a total revamp to actually be useful. Please see my other post for more discussion.

Actually, your math is wrong…

The channel takes 3.5 seconds to complete. If we assume a 6.4s cooldown as you suggested, you will do 35k damage every 9.9 seconds (round up to 10s), because a skill cooldown doesn’t start until after it’s finished.

That’s 3.5k damage per second by just using 100b, which is less than autoattacking on Axe.

The proper way to put it is that the math was correct, but the assumptions were wrong!

That said, you are indeed correct in that regard that the cooldown doesn’t begin until the skill has expired. Factoring that in, the uptime becomes 35%, which equates to your number. That said, remember that this is assuming 100B in a vacuum with no other skills. For the burst duration, 100B is dealing 10k dps, which is incredible, and factoring in the rotation to WWA and Evisc + Axe Autoattack, 100B is the most damaging segment of the whole sequence. With a 10% damage nerf to 100B as I suggested, this would still be true by a landslide, but it would if nothing else at least marginally reduce the effectiveness of the Warrior.

That all aside… My point, ultimately, is that the aforementioned rotation needs to be toned down ever-so-slightly, and the other classes that are neglected and worthless in PvE toned up significantly. There needs to be a middle-ground compromise that the classes can arrive at to all become useful. The first things that need to happen to address that is the problem of condition damage in PvE; there is never a time when condition damage is better than power damage.

I think the OP is missing the point that PVE is not competitive in any way therefor should not reflect changes to a class.

If PVE in GW2 was guild competitive like WoW or Rift then yes, I can see your point that maybe some classes need balanced.

HB is a planted attack, blame Anet for not incorporating dodge AI in the NPC’s, not Warriors.

If you nerf Warriors because of mundane, pointless PVE then you have no choice but to nerf them in WvW as well because I highly doubt Anet will take the time to create a NPC/PVP dmg modifier.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Regardless of the ignorance of a few players, there is a very good reason why the PvE trinity of GW2 consists of Warriors, Guardians, and Mesmers, and none of the other classes come remotely close (Except thieves, but only in the case where damage is for a single target, not multiple; lightning hammer eles can also do passably, but are much squishier than a Warrior and the Warrior affords better utility). It is a combination of the following problems:

• Condition damage is pitifully weak in PvE
• Bleed only stacks to 25, and then damage is lost
• Multiple classes applying poison/burning do not stack in dps with each other, while all power-based damage stacks linearly
• Melee damage is always superior to ranged damage
• The Warrior and Guardian have incredible natural bulk, and can afford to melee more safely than other classes in full berserker gear
• Projectile reflects trivialize content more than quickness ever did
• 100B does stupid high damage in all forms of PvE combat

Nerfing 100B by ~10% (and I say this as a Warrior) is only one step in actually fixing the problem that is GW2’s PvE combat.

THIS is why the falt lies with PvE design and not the warriors themselves. If it was too dangerous to stay in melle as often as you can now that entire list would be nullified.
*Conditions would make a comback because it would be too dangerous to rely on just pysical attacks.
*Ranged would have use over melle for when it is too dangerous to be in melle range.
*If it was too dangerous to be in Melle 100% of the time 100B would have to be used more carefully.

Look for the post “Fix the Guild Wars 2 (Un)Holy Trinity” for more details on this.

Jemmi.6058:

EDIT: As we are on the suggestion forum, I’d like to add the suggestion that this sum total damage be more clear. When a value pops above a head of an enemy when I hit it, I expect that value = the damage of the hit. It’s OK that it is the sum, but if so many warriors are like me, then there should be clearer messaging.

Click your combat tab, it will tell you exactly what each individual hit does.

Player Character.9467:

Jemmi.6058:

EDIT: As we are on the suggestion forum, I’d like to add the suggestion that this sum total damage be more clear. When a value pops above a head of an enemy when I hit it, I expect that value = the damage of the hit. It’s OK that it is the sum, but if so many warriors are like me, then there should be clearer messaging.

Click your combat tab, it will tell you exactly what each individual hit does.

mhmm I get that. It’s not visually obvious though. Thank you for the tip anyway

Warriors are (right now) the most efficient way to clear a dungeon in the shortest amount of time.
GW2 Dungeons are designed to make controll and support unnecessary.
This is a very sad development, cause the whole game class mechanics are designed around support and controll.
If a dungeon doesn’t penalize you for running 5/5 Berserker Glasscanon builds, then the dungeon is designed badly.
Fact is: 1 Glasscannon should be fine, maybe 2 as long as your Team can protect and support their glasscannons.

What can we learn from that? Dungeon design is the fail, not Warrior DPS.
With better dungeons, warriors will stop running glasscannon 24/7 and the issue will balance itself.

(i am NOT a warrior, for those people who might think that because I am defending it’s dps so much.
If you take the warriors dps, all you have left is a useless Character in Heavy armor.)

With 18 might the 100b attack does 11k on last hit with my warrior.
With 18 might the second attack of my necro does 6k.

What’s there to nerf?

the attacks are the summ of the previos attacks…

Aeri.5738:

the attacks are the summ of the previos attacks…

Oh alright. The attack system is the same for both though. They’re both 9 hits each or something like that.

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Aeri.5738:

the attacks are the summ of the previos attacks…

Oh alright. The attack system is the same for both though. They’re both 9 hits each or something like that.

More ten, because the last hit has the double dmg of the other singel hits

8hits*1 efficient +1hit*2efficient =10 hits.

IF 100b do 35k damage in this 10Sec (6,5s RT + 3,5 AT) it would do 3,5k dmg/s on every enemy. The thief e.g cant reach this damage (only on one and than max 8k(with crits)), without to offer up survival and become an one hit victim.

The (GS-)Warrior can play with a full berserker gear and had more than enought skills to negate every damage, until 14sec with two traits and one skill, also has he a HeavyArmor and +20k HP.

As well his strong, indestructible Banner (+GrpReg), CCs , useful shouts, and Elitesignet that can give him a perma haste effect.

SHORT: The warrior is the ultimate class, who combined all good and useful Grp- and Soloskills in 1 class.

The warrior hasn’t many support skills into direction of defense and hasn’t many healing skills either. This is the difference between warrior and other classes. Which balances the warrior in most cases (with the exception of his 3rd downed skill which is a little overpowered but only in few situations).

I have an idea. Instead of nerfing each class, make every class overpowered :P Nah kidding.

The one thing I don’t like is that in most cases you’re forced to use a certain build to do the required damage and have the demanded survivability.
What if you don’t want to play the build because that’s not your play style? This would mean that it ruins the fun in both ways. It’s a lose lose situation.
Anet should make sure that there are more than 1 and especially different ways to reach the required strength to defeat your opponents.

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

The warrior hasn’t many support skills into direction of defense and hasn’t many healing skills either. This is the difference between warrior and other classes. Which balances the warrior in most cases (with the exception of his 3rd downed skill which is a little overpowered but only in few situations).

Warriors have 3 heal skills, same as all other professions. As well as the highest base health and armour, they have plenty of traits (come on, there’s an entire line called “Defense”) to increase their survivability and more than enough utility skills:
Banner of Defense
Banner of Tactics
“Shake it Off!”
Endure Pain
Balanced Stance
Signet of Stamina
Dolyak Signet
All of those are useful for keeping you alive, and apart from guardians, no other profession can boast as many defensive options. Warriors also have very respectable ranged damage, so they’re not forced to stay in melee range the whole time.
What do other professions have that make people think warriors are at all squishy?

I totally forgot about few of them as I only play with signets (which aren’t supporter skills)

What I meant was that many classes have secondary healing skills. Like necro can use life sucking, guardian has certain abilities that let him gain extra health, ele has a whole section of skills that have healing effects. Thief can heal when invincible etc etc.

Melfice.5091:

Warriors need a nerf and berserker gear also needs a big nerf

Any specific reason you might share with us? Maybe it will be more helpful even understandable rather then just saying “Nerf X class or Y armor” For your information though every class is able to use Berserker armor which i understand you are addressing every class or every player who prefer to play a Berserker build, yes?

Another “the grass is greener on the other side” thread from people who obviously never played a warrior higher than the starter areas…
When does the nerf to thieves in WvW come then?

Anyway, I thought that “nerf that class” threads were forbidden on this forum…

AlietteFaye.7316:

Player Character.9467:

tigirius.9014:

Player Character.9467:

DPS thieves and elementalists can easily take a spot or 2 without lowering the party dps at all. Go look at DPS ele builds and DPS thief w/Sbow + warrior Lbow F1. Also three warriors brings 9 might, you might want to check your math on 3×3 again.

Warriors having the highest survivability… that’s a joke right? Ignoring the fact that necros have the highest health pool in the game, have you seen what you can do with rangers, guardians, and d/d eles? Warriors do have low survivability compared to the other classes, you’re getting caught up on hp and armor values which mean nothing in a sustained fight.

It’s no joke in PVE. It’s not just the health pool in PVE armor class actually matters. The better the armor the better the defense.

I do believe you are mixing PVP and PVE because in PVE they run thru everything like a truck. That’s not normal or typical of how the other classes play.

Protection – 33% damage reduction, not available in a warrior’s skill set.
Chill – Skill cooldowns increased 66%, not available in a warrior’s skill set.
Blind – Next attack misses, only 1 skill in a warrior’s set, on the longbow.
POOF armor difference more than gone.

And that’s not even considering comparisons with how other classes can handle conditions (which ignore armor) or their relative healing capabilities at the same healing power or their comparable invuln/blocks.

Protection, I’ll give you.

The other two don’t matter in PvE.

Are we playing the same game?

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

I only play with signets

Well that goes a long way towards explaining why you don’t think they’re overpowered.

Thief can heal when invincible etc etc.

…do you mean “invisible”?

Blind and Chill are really useful.

I always use blind with my ele underwater to unable the enemies to dmg me while they can’t see s**t. Plus the condition kills them. However on bosses… I don’t know.

Chill is really helpful too. It slows down and increases skill cooldown.

While blindness and chill help only a little bit at bosses they are useful. Though other conditions may be more useful in the case of fighting a boss.

Yeah that’s not how damage works. That number is cumulative, not additive.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Regardless of the ignorance of a few players, there is a very good reason why the PvE trinity of GW2 consists of Warriors, Guardians, and Mesmers, and none of the other classes come remotely close (Except thieves, but only in the case where damage is for a single target, not multiple; lightning hammer eles can also do passably, but are much squishier than a Warrior and the Warrior affords better utility). It is a combination of the following problems:

• Condition damage is pitifully weak in PvE
• Bleed only stacks to 25, and then damage is lost
• Multiple classes applying poison/burning do not stack in dps with each other, while all power-based damage stacks linearly
• Melee damage is always superior to ranged damage
• The Warrior and Guardian have incredible natural bulk, and can afford to melee more safely than other classes in full berserker gear
• Projectile reflects trivialize content more than quickness ever did
• 100B does stupid high damage in all forms of PvE combat

Nerfing 100B by ~10% (and I say this as a Warrior) is only one step in actually fixing the problem that is GW2’s PvE combat.

People keep saying the bulk on warriors/guards is just due to vitality, it’s not it’s their armor as well. It’s why I’d like to see engineers back in their heavy armor because we could benefit from it just as much as war/guards especially in our bomb heavy builds (even the support bomb role could benefit to this).

Hit the nail on the head with the problems of ranged vs melee and the condition stacking tho!

I roll warrior main and even I agree that 100 blades is pretty ridiculous, we arnt the only class with a multi hit skill that roots us but when you compare the damage its no wonder that people will tell you to go war or go away.