Guild Wars 2

Anet has gone on record saying that classes must be distinctive from one another. Not sure what have they not covered yet, but another caster is probably not on their plans. Not talking about the source of the magic (arcane vs elemental) but rather the mechanics if a large number of skills are similar “in spirit” to current Ele skills it would be redundant.

Right now the 3 light classes have a “signature” that defines them, all 3 classes can do AoE damage and “throw magic balls” but Necros have their minions, Mesmer have their clones and Ele have attunements. What would set the “wizard” apart from an Ele?

The answer can not be diff weapons…. it has to be a whole class mechanic.

CihandaR.2395:

castlemanic.3198:

CihandaR.2395:

castlemanic.3198:

Actually you can manage support builds pretty easily.

Lets take thieves for example.

they have a trait that grants allies regeneration when they stealth allies. Utility skills would be blinding powder, shadow refuge and smokewall. Have the thief with a bow set down the smokewall and shoot an explosive arrow, area stealth, the other two abilities are obvious in their manner of stealthing allies.

Voila, thief specialised in stealth and can frequently stealth allies for regeneration.

Mesmers can go with restorative mantras, making an aoe heal at the end of the 4 second cast. Take mantra of pain with its one second cooldown. Take null field and illusionary revival and time warp and you have a support build.

rangers take their healing spring and spirits for support.

warriors have banners and shouts for support, with a trait that heals allies when they hear a shout.

engineers have elixer kits and med kits or healing turrets.

elementalists have their staff abilities for aoe healing, plus traits that apply healing to nearby allies

necromancers have well of blood that’s similar to healing spring. They can also heal nearby allies with life transfer in death shroud and provide an aoe heal when they leave death shroud.

guardians are the only class that can have every slot filled with support skills:
mace +shield and staff, healing breeze, merciful judgement, sanctuary, hollowed ground, their shouts and tome of courage.

every class can have a whole bunch of support abilities and can fullfil the support slot. Also mesmers can have a very effective CC build too (veeeerrrrryyyyy useful in pvp).

But the idea is to not rely on another trinity, but that everyone can accomplish every aspect of every trinity through self support, ccs and damage. so there still are a ton of customisation options, but none that would fit or allow the old trinity model.

as for wizards, wizards arent required for every single fantasy world out there. they may be a staple, but they certainly aren’t mandatory. And no, they’re not in the slightest like warriors or assassins, because warriors and assassins existed in real life. but wizards aren’t real, and as such, they aren’t required.

Some weapons are based on specific goal like supporting, killing and i hate that. also most of the classes liek thieve have support spells i agree but. it is just a tiny detail which doesnt change much.

weapon skills are based on a theme so that a guardian carrying a sword is different to a guardian carrying a mace, it’s to add variety to the class skills. and how does it not change much? it changes the entire concept of the original trinity model if everyone can do everything without needing to swap out roles.

besides, what does this have to do with the wizard?

Ok thats true what you say but really the support skills of some classes like thief are less effective and who said that this was about wizard. its another subject.

Fair enough.

And i do agree, some classes are less effective, though i wouldn’t put the thief on that list. Traited for it, the thief has the potential to not only help allies avoid the most damage, but also to grant a good escape mechanic incase a fight is going bad and a way of healing without risk of being attacked by the enemy. it may not be one of the better classes at support, but by far it’s not one of the worst classes at it.

As for the wizard, while the wizard theme in general may be missing, it’s not like it’s not entirely there.

Certainly the closest class to what you suggested would be the elementalist, it’s the ‘truest’ wizard class out of the four. But to be honest, the theme of the wizard isn’t needed, and it also encroaches upon existant classes too.

Manipulation of the world goes to the elementalist and manipulation of the mind, reality and magic goes to the mesmer (the latter is much more present in GW but there are elements in GW2 as well). it doesnt really leave the wizard much room to operate, especially considering that GW2 doesnt have traditional MMO combat.

So while it may leave some to feel left out, unfortunately there isn’t much room to move in. However, since the Chronomancer was originally meant to be introduced in GW utopia, there may be hope, if only a slight chance. With time as another medium yet to be explored (apart from time warp, but i feel thats more of the mesmers aspect to manipulate reality than a mesmers capability of actually manipulating time), maybe the wizard could take space and refined arcane magic, as opposed to the mesmers raw chaotic magic.

Have to agree…that 4 arcane nuke cant really comprehend to that 4-500 spell in D&D corebook (only the normal d&d and only the core…lets not even mention the rest 500)

Besides the fact is, saying “arcane” wont cover the 1/10 of the spells that exist or could exist.
For example : Elementalist does have summon skills, and can even summon weapons. *Why cant there be a class that can summon a chair? For example?

Also pointing out that there should not only be combat spells and skills. The current “world” skills are terribly underdesigned.*
When i heard : “you can pick up a stone and dephending on what class you are, you can use it, like elementalist can imbue it with fire and shoot it” I was amazed, someone finally realized, as a character you are able to use anything in the world, if not for combat, then for something atleast. (the more the option the better). Atleast that is what you would await from an RPG.

A wizard class could cover this insane big rift with its “utility” skills. By that i mean not the bar on the right, but his main skills. The theme araund the class and skills.

Dancing lights – Blinds and/or confuses the target for xy time.
Grease : Cripples or Knocks down entering foes. – Also a combo field, if shot with a skill that causes burning it ignites also dealing damage and aplly burning.
Detect xy : Shows them on map for some time.
Magic Weapon : Imbues your weapon with damage(power) and a cool glow for xy time
Reduce size : Makes the enemy smaller reducing his power for xy time.
Acid arrow : xy damage over xy time, could apply also poison.
Web : Create a web of iron spider in a line (like guardians line of warding) bu would immobilize instead of unpassable, and cripple
Levitate : You could float in mid air for xy time, avoiding mines, traps, and could float above water, without a need of swimming. (damage does not cancel it)
-This could be used out of combat to, for a very limited hight, to float up to smaller cliffs (or even some vistas)
Dispell magic : Removes are effect spells in the targeted area
Counterspell : Cancels or interrupts the next enemy spell(or spells, but thne randomly not all) withing xy time.
Summon xy creatures (preferably rats or small moas) : Summons a swarm of xy creatures for xy time to attack the enemy. (small dmg but causing bleed,easy to kill 1-2 hits)
Acidic fog : Creates a damaging cloud that erodes armor (causing vulnerability)
Turn to stone : Short stun, or immobilize if only the legs turn to stone.
Plane Walk : Phases out to other plane where you are invulnerable but unable to act besides movement for a short time.
Sight beyond sight : A passive aura spell that steals a nearby enemy’s skill every xy second replacing this skill.

And so on and on and on…..and these are only the things i just popped out of my mind, and i did try to be realistic, but the spells could be lifted to insane hights in manipulation if let. Like manipulating the terrains, crating walls and so on….but those would need really indepth design and testing so i didnt mention them.

But as you see a WIZARD is not an elementalist,mesmer or necromancer. They all should know these simple skills, but since the game focuses the “specialized” classes on there specialization. A Wizard can be a stand alone class focusing on the base spells that are left out !!! And this is the point of the class.

“But to be honest, the theme of the wizard isn’t needed, and it also encroaches upon existant classes too.” From Castle …

You say YOU dont need it. I say i can barely exist without it -_- So who is wrong again?
You , becosue playing it is an OPTION ! You are not forced to do so, but by having the option (that you wouldtake away just for ….what again? Pure hating? Or what exacly lad?), many would get happy……

Another from Castle “unfortunately there isn’t much room to move in.”

Are ANY of those skills i listed above, used by ANY of the classes? Or you think any of the current classes will ever use them?
You mean that you cant think of any other kind of skills that are not in the game? No offense ment but you seriously lack imagination. You kind of sound like a fanboy actually,no offense again.

If the curent classes would SOOO cover all the spells and spell kinds, i dont think anyone would ever bother making a class suggestion.
This topic here is the very proof of the need on that class. Or the theme of those skills.

BEsides, its not abaut the mechanic of the class…Sure sure Ele is the “caster” class of the game because it can “shoot fireballs” …but seriously?
A simple shoot a blot of xy dmg can be designed like a billion ways. Its not abaut the mechanic, its abaut the theme.

On second thout, it is also abaut the mechanic, since classes …but thats discusses above, lets not repeat it again.

“Imagine an old man with white beard mastered Arcane magic, using a staff or his hands to cast spells.”

Amadeus the Wizard (Trine, Trine 2)

/topic

Nekroseth.5186:

1)Grease : Cripples or Knocks down entering foes. – Also a combo field, if shot with a skill that causes burning it ignites also dealing damage and aplly burning.
2)Detect xy : Shows them on map for some time.
3)Magic Weapon : Imbues your weapon with damage(power) and a cool glow for xy time
4)Reduce size : Makes the enemy smaller reducing his power for xy time.
5)Acid arrow : xy damage over xy time, could apply also poison.
6)Levitate : You could float in mid air for xy time, avoiding mines, traps, and could float above water, without a need of swimming. (damage does not cancel it)
-This could be used out of combat to, for a very limited hight, to float up to smaller cliffs (or even some vistas)
7)Dispell magic : Removes are effect spells in the targeted area
8)Counterspell : Cancels or interrupts the next enemy spell(or spells, but thne randomly not all) withing xy time.
9)Summon xy creatures (preferably rats or small moas) : Summons a swarm of xy creatures for xy time to attack the enemy. (small dmg but causing bleed,easy to kill 1-2 hits)
10)Sight beyond sight : A passive aura spell that steals a nearby enemy’s skill every xy second replacing this skill.

so i removed the skills i thought reasonable (good job btw), and im gonna comment on the rest as numbered above:

1) not really an issue skillwise, but from a more technical aspect it might be a little difficult to implement. good idea nonetheless.
2) if there arent out of combat skills usable, then i doubt this would be allowed.
3) Leave this skill for the mesmer, since illusionary weaponry was originally a mesmer skill.
4) i’d personally go with the mad king variant where he made you small and unable to use weapon skills.
5)skills that apply damage over time must do so with conditions, as the game no longer runs on hexes, curses etc. That said, switch the damage over time portion with just poison and it’s a good skill.
6) Vista’s are intentially supposed to be difficult. if wizards get special treatment to easily bypass obstacles, no one would play any other class.
7)way too powerful against magic classes and way too underpowered against non-magical classes.
8) same as above. this is also starting to encroach traditional MMO combat, which it should not.
9) not small moas, otherwise a great skill.
10) Mesmers originally had arcane thievery and arcane larceny which did exactly this. this didnt get transferred over with the mesmer, so why should the wizard get it?

“But to be honest, the theme of the wizard isn’t needed, and it also encroaches upon existant classes too.” From Castle …

You say YOU dont need it. I say i can barely exist without it -_- So who is wrong again?
You , becosue playing it is an OPTION ! You are not forced to do so, but by having the option (that you wouldtake away just for ….what again? Pure hating? Or what exacly lad?), many would get happy……

Chill out man, i’m being respectful and i suggest you do the same if you want anyone to take you seriously. I fell in love with the WoW druid and i didnt think that i could enjoy an MMO without one at all. I’m surviving and you don’t see me posting entire threads about how a druid MUST be implemented otherwise this is a horrible game.

so relax, people are ALLOWED to have different opinions than you. I never once said that there must not be a wizard in this game, i said that my PERSONAL opinion was that it wouldn’t fit well. No need to get your arms in a knot if someone has a differing opinion than you.

And again, with your second comment, you immediately decided to attack me, even though i had posted before you posted your skill ideas, LET me respond before you get a fever about how i hate everything you suggest, which is putting words in my mouth btw because i don’t actually hate what you’re suggesting, im trying to be realistic, friendly and i’m trying to help out with your suggestion. And you don’t know my imaginative skills or what i’m capable of creating, so don’t judge me by something i had said before you suggested anything.

So i’ve already covered the skills above. The main issue with it is that all those skills would be effects that work fine in other MMOs, but not in this one. The skill bar mechanics are different, the effects you put are not the same as effects caused by other classes because none of them are so specific in regards to what they effect. Mesmers, the masters of manipulating magic, have a skill that can’t differentiate between magical balls of fire and a bullet fired. Like the mesmer, the wizard skills would have to affect both or neither. These are just for the sake of balance.

continued.

And i WAS talking about the theme of the class. Elementalists alter the world through their elemental skills, mesmers manipulate reality, the mind and magic. Wizards can take refined magic as I already posted above, which you seemed to ignore because i disagreed with you on a subjective thing.

And it’s also about the mechanics of the class as well, and i’d be happy to discuss with you a theme that would fit for GW2 for the wizard, i’m willing to help you but not if you go around insulting me every three seconds.

Nekroseth.5186:

Have to agree…that 4 arcane nuke cant really comprehend to that 4-500 spell in D&D corebook (only the normal d&d and only the core…lets not even mention the rest 500)

Besides the fact is, saying “arcane” wont cover the 1/10 of the spells that exist or could exist.
For example : Elementalist does have summon skills, and can even summon weapons. *Why cant there be a class that can summon a chair? For example?

Also pointing out that there should not only be combat spells and skills. The current “world” skills are terribly underdesigned.*
When i heard : “you can pick up a stone and dephending on what class you are, you can use it, like elementalist can imbue it with fire and shoot it” I was amazed, someone finally realized, as a character you are able to use anything in the world, if not for combat, then for something atleast. (the more the option the better). Atleast that is what you would await from an RPG.

A wizard class could cover this insane big rift with its “utility” skills. By that i mean not the bar on the right, but his main skills. The theme araund the class and skills.

Dancing lights – Blinds and/or confuses the target for xy time.
Grease : Cripples or Knocks down entering foes. – Also a combo field, if shot with a skill that causes burning it ignites also dealing damage and aplly burning.
Detect xy : Shows them on map for some time.
Magic Weapon : Imbues your weapon with damage(power) and a cool glow for xy time
Reduce size : Makes the enemy smaller reducing his power for xy time.
Acid arrow : xy damage over xy time, could apply also poison.
Web : Create a web of iron spider in a line (like guardians line of warding) bu would immobilize instead of unpassable, and cripple
Levitate : You could float in mid air for xy time, avoiding mines, traps, and could float above water, without a need of swimming. (damage does not cancel it)
-This could be used out of combat to, for a very limited hight, to float up to smaller cliffs (or even some vistas)
Dispell magic : Removes are effect spells in the targeted area
Counterspell : Cancels or interrupts the next enemy spell(or spells, but thne randomly not all) withing xy time.
Summon xy creatures (preferably rats or small moas) : Summons a swarm of xy creatures for xy time to attack the enemy. (small dmg but causing bleed,easy to kill 1-2 hits)
Acidic fog : Creates a damaging cloud that erodes armor (causing vulnerability)
Turn to stone : Short stun, or immobilize if only the legs turn to stone.
Plane Walk : Phases out to other plane where you are invulnerable but unable to act besides movement for a short time.
Sight beyond sight : A passive aura spell that steals a nearby enemy’s skill every xy second replacing this skill.

And so on and on and on…..and these are only the things i just popped out of my mind, and i did try to be realistic, but the spells could be lifted to insane hights in manipulation if let. Like manipulating the terrains, crating walls and so on….but those would need really indepth design and testing so i didnt mention them.

But as you see a WIZARD is not an elementalist,mesmer or necromancer. They all should know these simple skills, but since the game focuses the “specialized” classes on there specialization. A Wizard can be a stand alone class focusing on the base spells that are left out !!! And this is the point of the class.

“But to be honest, the theme of the wizard isn’t needed, and it also encroaches upon existant classes too.” From Castle …

You say YOU dont need it. I say i can barely exist without it -_- So who is wrong again?
You , becosue playing it is an OPTION ! You are not forced to do so, but by having the option (that you wouldtake away just for ….what again? Pure hating? Or what exacly lad?), many would get happy……

My friend you are amazing!

op all you need to do is make a norn ele with white hair…. youll get the look you want and you can even make a fairly heavy set one. eles are damage caster. adding a wizard while it might be nice to have more options… it always is. gw is set on making unique gaming experiences not clone classes. though in a perfect world id like to see them and 20 other classes as well.

Still does not tackle balance issues…

@ poe lyfe.5879 but Norns are muscular… Have you ever seen a muscular Wizard wielding 10kg 2 handed sword and 50kg heavy armor? xD

Hmm. Yeah what ever.

On skill and balance issues….

I dont see a reson to “bother” with balance, since it does not exist. Noone should dare to say the game is balanced, when a warr can 2 sec destroy you in pvp. Besides, since we do not see game mechanic’s from server and programer side, we cant even pitch in anyway.
So i suggest, ignore the “blanace” topic in the 90% of your thouts.

Let me respond to your numerical replyes :
1, Its alredy implemented its called : Frozen ground, but it freezes, not knocks down. And is not considered combo field. (whitch is not hard to implement)
3, Its not the same, besides that was gw1 and this is gw2. If you so desire call it imbue. What ever.
4, Mad King variant? I was kind of off araund the holiday. But if its the same then there is no point agruing.
5,Aye poison it is then, with weakness.
6, If someone rolls a a class just to explore vistas faster….let them have it…i would rather pick a class that fits me. Besides, only because you can explore vistas faster ALL would play it? Yeah sure its like 2 shooting a mob? Yes its “unfair” adventage, but its fitting, and not implementing something because its unfair, is like not making the game at all. Besides, other classes also get skills that make them unfair? No they just do something better. Thats all.
7, Powerfull against magic classes? Whell he is the superior caster afterall, but besides that…where? You mean that simbol of xy that is out for like 3 sec? Its weak to begin with….At best you remove the Chaos storm or Ele’s storm…that you dont use in pvp at all. besides there are things that can make it weaker, like big cooldown, and keep in mind you got to waste up a slot for it…and might become useless afterall if there are no field skills araund.
8, There are alredy MANY skills like this, exspecially since they even deal damage…Mesmer can even spec for intteruption. Even Warr has some traits on it. Seriously not even near op.
9, oky ill keep it in mind. Any suggestion on the pets? Animals are not a must have.
10, iI will rework it, but why not? As stated above Wizard is the superior caster, it shoudl be able to learn a few tricks from others, but not use them as powerfull as them<- you pointed this out thy.

On the rest. . . Sorry lad, i ment no offense, i actualyl also suggested Druid.
I did not ignore it, i am just sleepy because i worked owertime.
And i was writing before you posted, so the time differance made it look wierd.

Yes mesmers are masters of “manipulating” but not magic, instead illusions, and fantoms. They confuse things, and that only applyes to living things (should) or things with senses, but Wizard is the master of Magic. (owerall)

I dont have time right now but i will make a big list of skills and try reworking the current ones to taste. Also think of class mechanic ideas.

Nekroseth.5186:

I dont see a reson to “bother” with balance, since it does not exist. Noone should dare to say the game is balanced, when a warr can 2 sec destroy you in pvp. Besides, since we do not see game mechanic’s from server and programer side, we cant even pitch in anyway.
So i suggest, ignore the “blanace” topic in the 90% of your thouts.

Balance still needs to be considered. True, balance hasn’t been completely fixed yet, but there have to be obvious fixes to make sure that things are atleast relatively balanced.

Let me respond to your numerical replyes :
1, Its alredy implemented its called : Frozen ground,
3, Its not the same, besides that was gw1 and this is gw2.
4, Mad King variant?
6, If someone rolls a a class just to explore vistas faster….let them have it…
7, Powerfull against magic classes? Whell he is the superior caster afterall, but besides that…where?
8, There are alredy MANY skills like this
9, oky ill keep it in mind. Any suggestion on the pets? Animals are not a must have.
10, iI will rework it, but why not?
Yes mesmers are masters of “manipulating” but not magic, instead illusions, and fantoms. They confuse things, and that only applyes to living things (should) or things with senses, but Wizard is the master of Magic. (owerall)

1) I meant more the mechanic of the field getting set on fire. The rest is fine as i said above.
4) It’s not the same. What you suggested is reduce the power of the enemy. I’m suggesting instead make them unable to use weapon skills.
6)they may do something better in combat, but jumping puzzles and vistas are a big part of the game too. None of the classes have advantages when it comes to out of combat things considering there aren’t any out of combat focused skills, where as this skill is specifically out of combat.
7)while true, chaos storm is actually extremely useful in pvp for its daze and its aegis it applies. I’ll give this skill second thoughts.
8)I said it’s OP against casters and useless against non-casters. Turn it into a daze and it’s all good, though i do retract my comment about it being OP against casters, you’re right.
9) Make it more small animals, rats, mice, crows, that kind of thing. Hatchlings of drakes, spiders etc. aren’t a good idea in my opinion, especially with drake hatchlings cause they’re friggin ginormous.
10)I pointed out that the mesmer had them, and mesmers are the master manipulators of magic. here is why: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_mesmer_skills.
if you go through that list you’ll find many many skills that affect casters only, including stealing buffs from enemies and being ale to use them, stealing enemy spells, stealing enemy energy, disabling skills from an entire ‘school’ of magic, ripping off buffs from an enemy and turning it into health for the mesmer, a whole bunch of skills that interrupt if an enemy uses a skill and interrupts nearby enemies etc. the mesmer has a ton of skills relating to not only destroying the enemy’s ability to use magic, but the mesmer has the ability of using their magic against them too. So that is why the mesmer is the master manipulator of magic, especially because they use the rawest form of magic, so they’d best be able to manipulate many aspects of it. While wizards might be superior casters, they arent superior manipulators of magic.

I dont have time right now but i will make a big list of skills and try reworking the current ones to taste. Also think of class mechanic ideas.

I’ll certainly take the time to think of something, and i can’t wait to see what you come up with.

castlemanic.3198:

Nekroseth.5186:

I dont see a reson to “bother” with balance, since it does not exist. Noone should dare to say the game is balanced, when a warr can 2 sec destroy you in pvp. Besides, since we do not see game mechanic’s from server and programer side, we cant even pitch in anyway.
So i suggest, ignore the “blanace” topic in the 90% of your thouts.

Balance still needs to be considered. True, balance hasn’t been completely fixed yet, but there have to be obvious fixes to make sure that things are atleast relatively balanced.

Let me respond to your numerical replyes :
1, Its alredy implemented its called : Frozen ground,
3, Its not the same, besides that was gw1 and this is gw2.
4, Mad King variant?
6, If someone rolls a a class just to explore vistas faster….let them have it…
7, Powerfull against magic classes? Whell he is the superior caster afterall, but besides that…where?
8, There are alredy MANY skills like this
9, oky ill keep it in mind. Any suggestion on the pets? Animals are not a must have.
10, iI will rework it, but why not?
Yes mesmers are masters of “manipulating” but not magic, instead illusions, and fantoms. They confuse things, and that only applyes to living things (should) or things with senses, but Wizard is the master of Magic. (owerall)

1) I meant more the mechanic of the field getting set on fire. The rest is fine as i said above.
4) It’s not the same. What you suggested is reduce the power of the enemy. I’m suggesting instead make them unable to use weapon skills.
6)they may do something better in combat, but jumping puzzles and vistas are a big part of the game too. None of the classes have advantages when it comes to out of combat things considering there aren’t any out of combat focused skills, where as this skill is specifically out of combat.
7)while true, chaos storm is actually extremely useful in pvp for its daze and its aegis it applies. I’ll give this skill second thoughts.
8)I said it’s OP against casters and useless against non-casters. Turn it into a daze and it’s all good, though i do retract my comment about it being OP against casters, you’re right.
9) Make it more small animals, rats, mice, crows, that kind of thing. Hatchlings of drakes, spiders etc. aren’t a good idea in my opinion, especially with drake hatchlings cause they’re friggin ginormous.
10)I pointed out that the mesmer had them, and mesmers are the master manipulators of magic. here is why: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_mesmer_skills.
if you go through that list you’ll find many many skills that affect casters only, including stealing buffs from enemies and being ale to use them, stealing enemy spells, stealing enemy energy, disabling skills from an entire ‘school’ of magic, ripping off buffs from an enemy and turning it into health for the mesmer, a whole bunch of skills that interrupt if an enemy uses a skill and interrupts nearby enemies etc. the mesmer has a ton of skills relating to not only destroying the enemy’s ability to use magic, but the mesmer has the ability of using their magic against them too. So that is why the mesmer is the master manipulator of magic, especially because they use the rawest form of magic, so they’d best be able to manipulate many aspects of it. While wizards might be superior casters, they arent superior manipulators of magic.

I dont have time right now but i will make a big list of skills and try reworking the current ones to taste. Also think of class mechanic ideas.

I’ll certainly take the time to think of something, and i can’t wait to see what you come up with.

Dude wt*are you talking about. This is a topic about a profession not balance isues. Go to a topic where they discuss balance.

Sounds like an elementalist, if they where to bring out something, I’d prefer it be unique.

personally i think sorcerer would be more akin to what you are saying then wizard, because as someone mentioned before anyone who uses magic is a wizard by technicalities, when i see wizard i see an old guy with a beard flinging extreme mass destruction spells left and right when i say sorcerer i see more along the lines of what you are thinking.

After reading through this thread, I see a whole lot of good ideas. But I can tell you right now, I seriously doubt that Anet will EVER put a wizard in the game. Something like it? Maybe. But never a straight-up wizard, and they would never call it that.

Why? Because Anet is trying to break away from tradition. We don’t have paladins, we have guardians. Really similar, sure, but they changed the name for a reason. Anet wants to be different. So instead of paladins and illusionists, we have guardians and mesmers. Instead of wizards, we have elementalists.

Again, some of these ideas are very nice. Having a profession with no weapons, while seeming to break the system, could kind of work (using rings, or even tattoos, as ‘weapons’ would make for a very original profession). But a wizard isn’t gonna fly. Call him an Arcanist, change around some of his stuff, then maybe you got something. But not a wizard.

My two cents.

Dreamwalker.3617:

After reading through this thread, I see a whole lot of good ideas. But I can tell you right now, I seriously doubt that Anet will EVER put a wizard in the game. Something like it? Maybe. But never a straight-up wizard, and they would never call it that.

Why? Because Anet is trying to break away from tradition. We don’t have paladins, we have guardians. Really similar, sure, but they changed the name for a reason. Anet wants to be different. So instead of paladins and illusionists, we have guardians and mesmers. Instead of wizards, we have elementalists.

Again, some of these ideas are very nice. Having a profession with no weapons, while seeming to break the system, could kind of work (using rings, or even tattoos, as ‘weapons’ would make for a very original profession). But a wizard isn’t gonna fly. Call him an Arcanist, change around some of his stuff, then maybe you got something. But not a wizard.

My two cents.

Good idea but if Anet sees the potential of this type class they’ll sure make it. The name doesn’t matter that much.

CihandaR.2395:

Dude wt*are you talking about. This is a topic about a profession not balance isues. Go to a topic where they discuss balance.

and every new class needs to be balanced, making that a very relevant discussion.

Failname.5907:

ele + necro = wizard…

srsly? how can you actually post this? someone plz delete this guys post. I dont know how most of you cant see the difference between a wizard and a ele, an ele is the master of the elements and a wizard is master of ARCANE MAGIC, elementalist is closer to shaman than wizard.

That class already exists; it just doesn’t exist the way you, personally would like it to be.

I understand, though. Personally I was hoping for a petless Ranger but we got the WoW Hunter implementation. Shrug.

Elementalist is the wizard class in this game. That’s the implementation they went with. And it’s a good one; it just has some problems that need to be addressed.

Sef.6918:

Failname.5907:

ele + necro = wizard…

srsly? how can you actually post this? someone plz delete this guys post. I dont know how most of you cant see the difference between a wizard and a ele, an ele is the master of the elements and a wizard is master of ARCANE MAGIC, elementalist is closer to shaman than wizard.

you are thinking of the WoW shaman. The shaman in vanguard only communicates with animal spirits and shaman in other games commune with the dead and gain powers through them.

And yes, funnily enough, there are plenty of wizards in plenty of games who primarily use the elements.

cant agree more with Adine.

i think i thought of a good mechanic.
it would be a form of arcane energy build up.
the more you use skills, the more it builds up.
however, only skill 1 builds up without using up energy.
each other weapon skill would have an amount of built up arcane energy to add an extra effect.
say skill 1 is simply an arcane bolt. skill 2 is a poison bolt and skill 5 is an aoe arcane explosion.
say also you can have a maximum of 50 arcane energy points, split into 5 sections.
skill 1 doesnt take up any arcane energy points, but grants say 3 arcane energy per cast.
skill 2 grants say 5 arcane energy per cast but has an 8 second cooldown. it uses 10 arcane energy for an added effect. Without that arcane energy, poison bolt poisons the enemy for 3 seconds. However, if there is 10 arcane energy, poison bolt increases the poison time to say 5 seconds and grants two stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds.
skill 5 grants 15 arcane energy, but has a cooldown of 30 seconds. It needs say 35 arcane energy for the extra effect. Without it, it’s a general aoe damage and it builds 15 arcane energy. With the 30 arcane energy available, it does some more damage and adds a cripple effect.
All weapon skills grant arcane energy, whether they use up arcane energy or not. However, for a skill to use arcane energy, there has to be that required amount of energy before the skill is cast.
example, take skill 5 from above. it needs 35 energy but there is only 25 energy build up. The wizard can’t get the benefit because it needs the initial amount of energy beforehand to be 35 to use, even though after the skill is used it would have had 20 arcane energy left. Therefore since it doesnt use the arcane energy, it doesnt add the extra effect, but it still adds the 15 energy, totaling to 40 arcane energy ready for the next skill to be used.
perhaps skill 5 skills would have two tiers, say tier 1 is 25 and tier 2 is 35. Tier 1 adds the cripple effect only whereas tier 2 also adds the additional damage to the cripple of tier one.
the reason all skills are able to generate arcane energy is to add an amount of flexibility to the wizards gameplay. While there would be no initial benefit from starting combat without the arcane energy. Using skill 5 as above would quickly open up for a poison +vulnerability conditions on the enemy. And plus skills dont need the arcane energy to cast their skills so that they wouldn’t be at a disadvantage by not having all their skills available at the beginning of combat.
Actually now that i think of it, it would work perfectly for the chronomancer too, but let’s stick to the wizard for now.

I totally fully agree with Sef.6918.

I just cant be kitten to understand how is Elementalist even like Wizard?

“Elementalist is the wizard class in this game.” → they are actually called Scholar classes. But that aside, names dont matter, so thats another reason i dont understand how can you think Ele is like Wizard(or sorcerer to the fact). Since they not only differ in name, but if you know what a wizard is you know they differ in skill or theme to.

I WOULD LOVE TO hint ALL who think Wizard is like Elementalist to this topic on wiki :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizard_ → clearly not even like Elementalist. Its tipically not specialized to ANYTHING BUT MAGIC.

I understand Gw2 wants to be special, and times do change, so does the traditional concept of a Wizard, but braking tradition (trough might have improve in a minor way) costed dearly for the game. Cosidering trinity destruction helps the “LFG” problem, but destroys the dimensions of roles, and a BIG part of fun, in playing a role. (isnt it supposed to be role playing game? Besides the mechanic of roles…) Where you can pick what you excel in? And not only a theme that is Squeezed to like 30 skills and is called a class.

Even if you force a character to a class, that is cornered to a certaint theme, it should have a zone to manuver so you can form it to your likeing…..
For example if YOU SAY Wizard is like Elementalist…then gimme all that 500 spell i would want as a Wizard….Or atleast the Ele should have since it equals Wizard? Seriously not.

Hmm i clearly see many players here want and imagine Wizard as an Acane mage, as some point out it might be called Arcanist, so lets rename it, for the sole reson to avoid future confrontation.

-Besides, Arcane is not a bad idea, of you consider how interesting it can be, if it is not imagined so boring and simple as Elemetalist arce spells.

-Also might be a decent idea, since i did not found any topic’s on arcane spells on Gw wiki, so it can be exploited to anything basically.

-Trough also lets add, the current skills that are arcane point to the theme of : Really powerfull (all instant) damaging skills. Propably best set for destruction.

-In gw1 arcane skills are mostly mesmer skills. At manipulate magic as caste stated above.

-In gw1 it is also an passive energy source that casters use to gain power.. (tap on it)
(as well as there are some basses based on it)
-Mursaat are somehow connected to it.

-The asura leadership is called the Arcane council, propably points to : Arcane is a powerfull thing, so only something like a leader of the smartest race can wield.

THe mechanic whaa castle mentions sounds quite fitting, for something t is so insanely powerfull and destructive, but i most also mention the rthe whole point of the class is to have a classical wizard, the one wth a pointy hat, beard, old man, with powerfull, bot mostly non destructive spells.

I agree with both sides. A classical wizard is out of date, trough it has many fans, it needs to be redesigned. Why not have both in 1 then?

My best idea is still a thing that is alredy existing in the game, it just needs to be detailed. It has both things you ppl want!!! THe classical old bearded wizard and a powerfull destructive Arcanist !
A Durman Priory Archeologist

Lets talk abaut that.

Lets say we implement something like that. How would we do it?

THe criteria are :

It must feel like a tipical wizard, that means :
-A wise man, with lots of knowledge and lore.
-His power comes from practice, learning, arcane scrolls, books and text’s (might even be is source of power?)
-Wears, robes, wields staff,
-Can sue some spells without weapons. (might work as kits for Engineer)
" Anyone is free to add more"

It must be a fresh new idea, that represents the spirit of Gw, :
-Should be renamed to Arcanist,Sorcerer,Mage,Cronomancer,Thaumaturgist or something fresh.
-Must use some sort of magic that is no represented yet, something like Arcane, Time, Ancient spells (from lore, or even fitting for cronomancer).
-Needs a fresh mechanic, that fits and synergize with the class and the theme to.

I personally think this is the list we need to follow, trough all are free to add.
My opinion is , that something like this is totally represented in the game as Durman Priory stuff. And Dp is propably best represented with an Archeologist.

It basically has all, but it is not an Elementalist. (trough it is represented mostly as an Ele, since the game does not have other classes yet, but thats only a circumstancial problem, not because its intended)

I can also think of a Mechanic, where the Archeologist can take out an item from a skillbar, that is some lost artifact and get a new skill set (like it is a weapon). And those skill sets would be centered araund the theme of the item, and powerfull spells. There might be 3 for each role : Support, CC (or utility), And long range direct damage.
Could work simply like Elementalist attunements : You click on the item icon above the skillbar, and it switches out your skills. (using your current weapon stats)

BUT instead of getting a skillset for each weapon you did hold before, you only get 1 skillset for each atifact you have (if 3 then 3 skill sets plus original ones). Its resonable since you equip a new item, you get the eqipped items skills, your original (wield able) weapons have nothing to do with them…

But the Mechanic Caste describes could work also, its quite fitting for the Traits system currently running.
Trough its like a split personality, i imagine a normal Wizard, then as the Arcane power fills him becomes an engine of destruction : Floating in mid air, with glowing eyes that discharge arcane lightning, in his hands ethereal spells sparkling and raining down destruction.
It would be quite a sight to have an elite like that ( it would fill his arcane power bar to max, and skills would not use up arcane energy for some xy time) It would also give this effect to the character

Oh and on Bare handed casting. A few utility skills that work like Kits for Enginner would do the PERFECT charm. But isntead of a weapon, the Archeologist or Arcanist hands would glow with tattos of the chosen “kits”(spell theme) color.

Again sorry i must go so soon. Ill check up soon again. Till then cya all. Opinions?

castlemanic.3198:

Sef.6918:

Failname.5907:

ele + necro = wizard…

srsly? how can you actually post this? someone plz delete this guys post. I dont know how most of you cant see the difference between a wizard and a ele, an ele is the master of the elements and a wizard is master of ARCANE MAGIC, elementalist is closer to shaman than wizard.

you are thinking of the WoW shaman. The shaman in vanguard only communicates with animal spirits and shaman in other games commune with the dead and gain powers through them.

And yes, funnily enough, there are plenty of wizards in plenty of games who primarily use the elements.

Now i think of it, ye ure right about the shaman being spiritually guided dudes, but have you seen the flame legion shamans? they have nothing to do with spirits and more to do with smoke, fire, earth and lava. so the shaman in GW2 is very different.

I do admit wizards are a hard class to discuss but when i picture a wizard in GW2 they have a wand or staff in main hand with a tome in the off hand casting glowing arcane symbols on the ground and turning people into sheep and chickens, so nothing to do with elements.

if Wizard was to be added to the game then it would need alot of trait options so you can choose what magic you want to master because wizard doesnt just mean Arcane magic (i was wrong) e.g Ancient magics, Demonology, Arcane, Electric from finger tips magic these all kinda are wizards, anything that uses knowledge from ancient scrolls is wizardry. Elementalist = Avatar.

@ sef: you’ve forgotten the norn bear shaman, raven shaman, snow leopard shaman and wolf shaman. and technically speaking the flame shaman are guided by the spirit of the flame legion imperator.

@ nekroseth I believe we should leave the chronomancer to Arena Net to develop, and leave all time related skills to them as well. They have already had chronomancer as a class in preparation for GW utopia and i’d personally love to see what Arena Net can come up with. And i do disagree about how removing the trinity ‘destroyed’ the game, i think i enhanced it amazingly. but lets leave that aside.

As for the wizard class, if you give the wizard the option to use all schools of magic, or a ton of types of magic or whatever, then you have to be really careful about the territory that your skills will fall into.

necromancer, elementalist and mesmer take up a lot of the magic field already. I’d suggest we go with the name ‘Arcanist’ to keep the focus down one direction instead of having several directions. While the elementalist has four paths to go down specifically, they are all related to one thing: the elements. There has to be that type of unity with the arcanist skills, otherwise it’s just a bunch of mish mash that’s impossible to wade through.

the type of utility skills for tome like weapons could be “orbs”, which the arcanist is able to tap into the latent power from within the orb to grant weapon skills. or you can go with maybe the glowing tattoos and call them ‘sigils’.

the mechanic has to be unique and different to what is already there for it to be implemented, thus a mechanic similar to the elementalists won’t jive well.

as for the class being inspired by the durmand priory. you need to think carefully about that, because the class is also supposed to be able to go into any of the three orders. While it is difficult imagining stealthy guardians, they can accomplish that. For the wizard to be directly affected by the durmand priory is unwise in my opinion.

There is a guardian elite that interacts with their mechanic, so having a similar elite where there is a generation of arcane magic without using the built up arcane magic is a good idea.

I also suggest that the elite turns into a skill itself after being imbued with the power of arcane, where it’s like a blast that uses all of the built up arcane energy with a 30 second recharge or something and the elite itself would be 210 cooldown.

we need to discuss this when you’re on at the same time as me to elongate the conversation.

castlemanic.3198:

i think i thought of a good mechanic.
it would be a form of arcane energy build up.
the more you use skills, the more it builds up.
however, only skill 1 builds up without using up energy.
each other weapon skill would have an amount of built up arcane energy to add an extra effect.
say skill 1 is simply an arcane bolt. skill 2 is a poison bolt and skill 5 is an aoe arcane explosion.
say also you can have a maximum of 50 arcane energy points, split into 5 sections.
skill 1 doesnt take up any arcane energy points, but grants say 3 arcane energy per cast.
skill 2 grants say 5 arcane energy per cast but has an 8 second cooldown. it uses 10 arcane energy for an added effect. Without that arcane energy, poison bolt poisons the enemy for 3 seconds. However, if there is 10 arcane energy, poison bolt increases the poison time to say 5 seconds and grants two stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds.
skill 5 grants 15 arcane energy, but has a cooldown of 30 seconds. It needs say 35 arcane energy for the extra effect. Without it, it’s a general aoe damage and it builds 15 arcane energy. With the 30 arcane energy available, it does some more damage and adds a cripple effect.
All weapon skills grant arcane energy, whether they use up arcane energy or not. However, for a skill to use arcane energy, there has to be that required amount of energy before the skill is cast.
example, take skill 5 from above. it needs 35 energy but there is only 25 energy build up. The wizard can’t get the benefit because it needs the initial amount of energy beforehand to be 35 to use, even though after the skill is used it would have had 20 arcane energy left. Therefore since it doesnt use the arcane energy, it doesnt add the extra effect, but it still adds the 15 energy, totaling to 40 arcane energy ready for the next skill to be used.
perhaps skill 5 skills would have two tiers, say tier 1 is 25 and tier 2 is 35. Tier 1 adds the cripple effect only whereas tier 2 also adds the additional damage to the cripple of tier one.
the reason all skills are able to generate arcane energy is to add an amount of flexibility to the wizards gameplay. While there would be no initial benefit from starting combat without the arcane energy. Using skill 5 as above would quickly open up for a poison +vulnerability conditions on the enemy. And plus skills dont need the arcane energy to cast their skills so that they wouldn’t be at a disadvantage by not having all their skills available at the beginning of combat.
Actually now that i think of it, it would work perfectly for the chronomancer too, but let’s stick to the wizard for now.

I haven’t read all of it but it seems like you have really nice ideas. I’m happy that all of us are making a great treath together.

Nekroseth.5186:

Lets say we implement something like that. How would we do it?

THe criteria are :

It must feel like a tipical wizard, that means :
-A wise man, with lots of knowledge and lore.
-His power comes from practice, learning, arcane scrolls, books and text’s (might even be is source of power?)
-Wears, robes, wields staff,
-Can sue some spells without weapons. (might work as kits for Engineer)
" Anyone is free to add more"

It must be a fresh new idea, that represents the spirit of Gw, :
-Should be renamed to Arcanist,Sorcerer,Mage,Cronomancer,Thaumaturgist or something fresh.
-Must use some sort of magic that is no represented yet, something like Arcane, Time, Ancient spells (from lore, or even fitting for cronomancer).
-Needs a fresh mechanic, that fits and synergize with the class and the theme to.

I personally think this is the list we need to follow, trough all are free to add.
My opinion is , that something like this is totally represented in the game as Durman Priory stuff. And Dp is propably best represented with an Archeologist.

It basically has all, but it is not an Elementalist. (trough it is represented mostly as an Ele, since the game does not have other classes yet, but thats only a circumstancial problem, not because its intended)

I can also think of a Mechanic, where the Archeologist can take out an item from a skillbar, that is some lost artifact and get a new skill set (like it is a weapon). And those skill sets would be centered araund the theme of the item, and powerfull spells. There might be 3 for each role : Support, CC (or utility), And long range direct damage.
Could work simply like Elementalist attunements : You click on the item icon above the skillbar, and it switches out your skills. (using your current weapon stats)

BUT instead of getting a skillset for each weapon you did hold before, you only get 1 skillset for each atifact you have (if 3 then 3 skill sets plus original ones). Its resonable since you equip a new item, you get the eqipped items skills, your original (wield able) weapons have nothing to do with them…

But the Mechanic Caste describes could work also, its quite fitting for the Traits system currently running.
Trough its like a split personality, i imagine a normal Wizard, then as the Arcane power fills him becomes an engine of destruction : Floating in mid air, with glowing eyes that discharge arcane lightning, in his hands ethereal spells sparkling and raining down destruction.
It would be quite a sight to have an elite like that ( it would fill his arcane power bar to max, and skills would not use up arcane energy for some xy time) It would also give this effect to the character

Oh and on Bare handed casting. A few utility skills that work like Kits for Enginner would do the PERFECT charm. But isntead of a weapon, the Archeologist or Arcanist hands would glow with tattos of the chosen “kits”(spell theme) color.

Again sorry i must go so soon. Ill check up soon again. Till then cya all. Opinions?

Amazing ideas I think (I haven’t read all of it because I’m really busy atm). I even have great ideas for the story of how Wizards could enter the existing world. If we guys gather more information I’ll try to put all of it in one treath. I will of course mention the names of the commenters.

I absolutely liked the idea of Wizard class. I think that it isn’t the same as Elementor. You can do so much with arcane magic, which is different from element spells of ele. I doubt that this will ever happen but I’d like to play as an old, wise wizard. Let us hope fore better classes in future.

So to main topic….Is there a way to sit togather Castle and Cihanda? And all the rest who take this seriously?
Any chat option here or take in game friendlist?
My name is Blasio The Lion.

If nothing else we make a bit more clear topic as : Wizard→Arcanist Suggestion continuation or something.

Besides that i guess the first question is then
(I agree on the name Arcanist )

What is the thing that unifyes the skills of the Arcanist, or more like, what is the main theme of his skill? What is the unique that makes him any more special then a “common” Wizard? (lets leave the question what is considered a common wizard or wizard at all in Gw, maybe even the devs cant awser this right now)

Ok back to topic.
I had the time in my youth to study occult, magic, philosopy, teology, ezoteric’s, and history quite a bit. And i must say : there are insane ammounts of catigorizations of magic, and since Gw lore is not that cristal clear on this topic (what kind of magic’s are out there) we have to assume a lot of things.

Besides, the categories castle mentions (manipulation, element ect…) and the reson of the bloodstones, there are still many questions we cant anwser, maybe even devs cant, thats another reson we must assume many things.
-There are many bloodstones broken they dont chain magic anymore.
-There are many skills,skill themes, spell categories, that entwine in more then 1 class
For example : there ware many arcane spells for mesmer in gw1, but there are also elementalist spells in gw2.
For that i think its safe to assume arcane is an all araund used tipe of magic(any caster can tap on it). It cant specify the class.

Another categorization might be the “how” they cast spells :
For example D&d makes Sorcerer and Wizard differeant by saying : Sorcerers use magic from there own inherited powers trough blood, and weave the spells trough intuition, and Wizards, study for long times, and practice, also use texts and books.

Or anothe example is :
Invokation – Invokes (summons) spirits, demons or any power that anwsers and calls there power. Trough it can be a lightning commanded by a nature spirit or a fireball invoked from a demon or from the underworld simply (not specifically by something).
Ceremonial – Similllar to invocation, but it mimic’s the spells effect to iconically call it from the universe. (longer more circumstancial, needs preparation)
Talismanic – Where the caster uses a fetish, iconization is also present ( as in most magic). Like a scepter or mineral. Like a woodoo doll, or a scepter, or a sacrefice of a black goat-sheep(can be considered a crossroad between Ceremonial and Talismanic)

There are also categorizations of Schools in magic Via D&D :
Arcane- Manipulates the cosmic energy called (mana,chi,chakra,focus—-ect)
-Abjuration : Focused on protective spells and dispells
-Alteration and Transmutation : Manipulates the materials and materials properties (turn to stone, Bull"s strenght, waterwalk)
-Enchantment : Something that mnipulates the mind’s of others mostly.
-Evocation, Invocation : Summoning materials,light and darkness, manipulating force ( summon a chair is considered this)
-Illusion : no comment
-Necromancy : No comment
-Universal : That cant be placed into anything.

Whell i must admit the names themself show awesome categorization, the problem is the description. Some skills and the things the naes mean totally dont fit.
There always been a BIG arguement abaut why is something Invocation when it should be Transmutation ….its not really easy to categorize someting fictional….Only its worlds crator can truly.

Divine -Spells granted by god-trough belief

In my opinion the best solution would be a system that describes WHAT does it manipulate, or HOW.
THe Arcanist could actualyl cover some off the other classes topics, like summon a lance of fire, if it does it in some unique way that explains why can he use Elemental magic. OR why cant the Elementalist use that skill….maybe the other part of the skill requires a feet the elementalyst cant cower? That is an intersting thout…..

As for the tome-orb-sigils i must agree. Its a good idea (they are basically like kits)
There could be 3-4 tipes of them, like Engineer has more then 1 tipe of kit.

I must add as side note…when i played guardian and used the tome of wrath for first time …i realized ITS THE BEST feeling in the game. (atleast for me) It was the feeling i missed from all casters in the game.

Also agree on Priory topic, it must be implemented carefully that it wont connect with them, but gives the feeling like you are one of them.
Might be a secret organization yet unknown (trough cliche i must admit) that teaches Arcanists.

If they make this please name it Sorcerer NOT wizard.

I’ll admit you could make a case for an Arcanist that would be cannon but the priory would have to find scrolls somewhere in Orr for it to work . Temporal Distortion would also have to be either a trait line or a field of magic .

On the topic of the bloodstones, magic is separated into four categories:

Destruction, of which the elementalist uses.
Denial, of which the mesmer and possibly the thief use.
Preservation, of which the guardian and possibly the ranger use.
Aggression, of which necromancers use.

each category is tied with one blood stone. There is a fifth bloodstone that doesnt emit any magic, but it’s literally the key to fit the four other pieces together.

Now these are the only categories of magic by which the world of tyria abides by. Evocation, enchantment etc. should be out of your mind, because the magic has to fit the theme of the bloodstone only. It can’t borrow from other bloodstones, no single class is connected to more than one bloodstone. Given that, the traditional D&D magic spheres are thrown out the window as the D&D magic spheres are essentially sprinkled over any class that uses magic. This also ruins the idea that the arcanist can ‘borrow’ skills the way you’re describing them. In GW1, the mesmer actually had to temporarily steal the knowledge to cast a skill, before losing that knowledge again. for the arcanist to actually be able to use the skills of other classes permanently breaks lore 6 times over.

The theme isn’t what elements or school of magic is used. The mesmer uses raw chaotic magic while the thief uses shadow skills with a hint of denial magic. Very different from each other but they serve a similar purpose, to deny the enemy of something. Same thing with preservation. Guardians use light magic to smite their foes, while rangers commune with nature and nature spirits. The few magical skills the ranger has fall into the preservation category, healing spring, stone spirit, lightning spirit and nature spirit

Now while the arcanist would be able to fit perfectly in the destruction category, if we take a look at the elementalist there is still a lot of room to move around in, but the focus has to be destruction.

as for the ties between arcane energy and the two classes that supposedly use it: Yes, the elementalist does use arcane magic, but the mesmer never did.

The word “arcane” in the dictionary means ‘understood by few; mysterious or secret’. it’s from this definition that they most likely use the term for skills such as ‘arcane thievery’. However, it is known that mesmer magic comes purely from the domain of Lyssa, which is chaotic magic. While it may seem strange that something chaotic could become something so ordered, such as with illusions, it can be assumed that mesmers are able to manipulate chaotic magic to their bidding, such as with chaos storm not harming allies and giving them only boons. Given that, their degree of control over denial magic could be called ‘arcane’.

For the arcanist class to be taught by a secret organisation won’t work. Every race would have to be able to play the arcanist class, which means that there has to be some common knowledge of it’s existence after the class is revealed. If out of nowhere crowds of people started raining arcane destruction on bandits, it would raise every eyebrow from divinity’s reach to arah. Even the mesmer class, seemingly the rarest class in terms of NPC numbers, is widely known. The queen of kryta is the best known mesmer, a figure that most races knows of. So it’s no secret that mesmers, the masters of manipulation, are widely known. Despite all the evidence that points to how mesmers should be part of a secret society because nobody could trust them, they are still accepted in all parts of tyria. Hell, if you piss off a mesmer, they can turn you into a moa if they wished. And good luck ambushing one too, countess anise summoned at least 15 phantasmal swordsmen in a human story arc. and yet, the human that’s sitting with a crown on her head, and her most trusted advisor are both mesmers.

I would have mentioned necromancers, but necromancy isn’t categorised as evil by tyria in the slightest. Especially by humans, seeing as grenth allows both resurrections and undead to exist and human necromancers openly worship him, necromancy isn’t as big a deal as it would be in other fantasy worlds.

So the arcanist can’t exactly be hidden for centuries and then suddenly pop out of nowhere en mass. I have to agree with adine, if scrolls are found in orr, it would be the perfect opportunity for the arcanist to be open to all the classes, considering that Zhaitan had kept it hidden inside Orr this entire time.

Also yes, we need to find a time where we are all online together. Right now its 4 in the afternoon. Post what time it is when you reply so that we can work something out.

I see great ideas. There is a lot of information here it is impossible to put it in one treath. Let us keep it like this, probably because of the high amount of vieuws Anet will hear our voice.

Nekroseth.5186:

So to main topic….Is there a way to sit togather Castle and Cihanda? And all the rest who take this seriously?
Any chat option here or take in game friendlist?
My name is Blasio The Lion.

If nothing else we make a bit more clear topic as : Wizard->Arcanist Suggestion continuation or something.

I can’t go ingame because my father took my gaming pc until the end of exams xD. But I liked your idea and yes maybe we can discuss togheter and make a better treath. There is also the problem of the amount of space we get for 1 Treath. It is maybe good that we comment our good ideas in this treath, we would have more vieuws and if that happens we have more chance that they’ll read our suggestion.

What if I put links in this treath that directs to another treaths about
Wizard→Arcanist. I mean you and some other people wrote some amazing things here, I can copy paste them in a treath put your name too. If you guys also open your own treath PM me the link so I can copy paste it in my treath to make sure that all of our ideas are easy to find for everyone.

I have a lot of time in weekend. Just PM if you have better ideas about what we should do and how to communicate. and yes I take this serious

Ok i am back from work, but i had quite some time to write down my thouts and design a bit, but first of all i must reply to Castle.

Trough i agree with you in most cases the, but on the topic of
“because the magic has to fit the theme of the bloodstone only. It can’t borrow from other bloodstones, no single class is connected to more than one bloodstone”

I still cant make a compromiss, since the system you describe is non existant, trough you describe it, (i didnt even found it pls link so i can read it) the game does not work like that. If it would, Guardian should not have tome of wrath, when he can use perservation magic. Or elementalist trough only uses elemental magic, he also uses heals and destrruction to. Some classes have more then 3 "bloodstone types in them.

Or is it me who cant understand abaut the “theme” or mechanic of spells you are talking abaut?

On the secret society i agree, its not a really good idea, it was just an example, but i cant agree on the rest of the topic. That would mean there wont be or should be no new classes since noone knows abaut them? Ofc noone knows, because the devs didnt had time to implement them. You cant hint to all upcoming changes, even if the game looks stupid because of it later on, its how mmo industry works.

Ciha, thats not really a good idea, ppl dont bother to look threads that other threads link to. (lazyness)

On the rest all ok. Ill write down what i thout up right now, its free to edit, trough most skills actually fit the “destruction” theme.
I will leave a lot of space between texts so it is easy to look at. If something cant be understood ask.

Nekroseth.5186:

Ok i am back from work, but i had quite some time to write down my thouts and design a bit, but first of all i must reply to Castle.

Trough i agree with you in most cases the, but on the topic of
“because the magic has to fit the theme of the bloodstone only. It can’t borrow from other bloodstones, no single class is connected to more than one bloodstone”

I still cant make a compromiss, since the system you describe is non existant, trough you describe it, (i didnt even found it pls link so i can read it) the game does not work like that. If it would, Guardian should not have tome of wrath, when he can use perservation magic. Or elementalist trough only uses elemental magic, he also uses heals and destrruction to. Some classes have more then 3 "bloodstone types in them.

Or is it me who cant understand abaut the “theme” or mechanic of spells you are talking abaut?

On the secret society i agree, its not a really good idea, it was just an example, but i cant agree on the rest of the topic. That would mean there wont be or should be no new classes since noone knows abaut them? Ofc noone knows, because the devs didnt had time to implement them. You cant hint to all upcoming changes, even if the game looks stupid because of it later on, its how mmo industry works.

Ciha, thats not really a good idea, ppl dont bother to look threads that other threads link to. (lazyness)

On the rest all ok. Ill write down what i thout up right now, its free to edit, trough most skills actually fit the “destruction” theme.
I will leave a lot of space between texts so it is easy to look at. If something cant be understood ask.

Very well. Just write open your own treath but just write it here and also give me the link. The more accecibility the better. I’ll also spend my time for a clear and informative tekst. @Castlemaniac I think that you also heve some nice ideas.

K so i guessed the main concept of the class would be fitting to :

Pursuit of Arcane and Magicile Power!

Arcanist’s are pursuing power by nature, and over the times 3 paths cleared to obtain “ultimate” power.

1, Science

The thematic research of the world, and how things work, to implement that as power.
Text and scripts like, books and scrolls are a source of that knowledge, for that they are a simbol of the class in some some way. So is lore and knowledge itself.

→ Books
→ Texts, scrolls
→Alchemy
→ other —-???

2, Elightment trough experiance

Trough experiance comes enlightment of the world, and that can be wield as power.
Its a grand motivation, why Arcanist’s travel and see the world and adventure.

→Travel (trough not as moch as a ranger,)
→Understanding
. of the world
. of others
. of yourself
→ ????

3, Trough destruction

An awesome conception actually and its own paradox makes this mostly boring theme interesting and exciting.
How was it ? Power is its own reward! And that does apply to Arcanist’s exspecially.
If you are strong you can gain power. If you are weak you should fall, or try becoming stronger. Trough that you gain power.

→ Destroy to Perserve
If you destroy your foes, you perserve, not only yourself but others. (you must be strong) A paradoxal skillset that, trough its still offensive it can protect somehow.
Also points to the fact, that with destruction comes something new. The same as grenths teaching. The circle of existance to perserve balance.
→Destruction of the weak
Arcanist’s exploit the weakness of others. Trough they only care for foes, that take up the sword. And not for pesants or merchants, they are not considered weak, since they dont take up the cup for power. Like a centaur,nightmare court(exspecially) , sons of svanir and so on would.
→???

Whell those are the main paths that lead to power, and Arcanist’s walk these paths, and those paths are that lend them skills.
Lets talk abaut skills now a bit.

AS mentioned above, the Arcanist uses some tools, exspecially on the path of science.
I imagined 3 right now, that work like kits for enginers→ use them and get a skillset

-Sphere of annihilation. An orb like thing covered with arcane runes, that is used for long range direct damage. (trough it is a bit circumstancial to use).
→ Could mention a skill like : Ray of destruction a long range nuke that needs a few sec charge up before it can fire a really long range, high dmg, ray of light.

-Scroll or Book of invocation.
Somehing like Guardins have (tome of wrath). But instead of damage skills only, it contains “prayers” or calls, to powers bejond.
Since basically any spirit and power can be invoked, like Djinns, Spirits, AnimalSpirits, NatureSpirits, Demons or even gods i am not sure what theme should it take, propably a “support” or “defensive” like skillset would be proper.

-Tatto (’s)
The Arcanist has 2( how many exacly?) tattos on his body, that contain powerfull magic, that can be brought forth to use.
On activation the Arcanist puts his weapon away, and uses his glowing hands to weave spells, trough his tattos ( that have the currently used weapons stats, the same way as a kit does)
Dephending on what tatto he is using, change the patterns and colors that glow on him. Differeant tattos grant differeant theme of skillsets.

As for concrete normal weapon spells i made some examples, trough they are not detailed, just examples that fit this image of the class.

Staff :
→Swarm of rats
THe Arcanist summons forth 6-8 rats ( like the normal npc rats they are not 1 big modell, but each has its own hp and movement and model) Dephending on the current arcane power the numbers might vary.
They keep attacking the target, till they are destroyed, or the time of the skill is up. Inflict bleeding, or poison dephending also on arcane power.

→Telekinesis
The Arcanist holds the staff linear and lifts it up high. The target also lifts to mid air, becomes Unable to move? Or maybe even attack? (root or stun?) BUT its a channel skill (for max 3 sec?), if the caster moves the spell brakes. (it also deals damage each sec the spell is lasting)

→Inscribe
The arcanist makes a scribing motion with the staff and inscribes a Arcane mark on the target, that detonates after xy time (before that it can pull xy nearby foes, maybe with arcane power dephending how many).

→Arcane barrage (perfect for a 1 spell)
The Arcanist shoots a bolt of arcane from the end of the staff, then swings the staff and shoots 3, then slams the staff to ground and shoots 5 (these follow the target, might apply condition or aoe dephending on arcane power….would look cool if shoots 5 small arcane missiles to all nearby foes…quite fitting for a “barrage”)

So these are my thouts currently.

my comment was only in regards to a secret society. New classes should be added, but the lore has to fit. And usually new expansions are enough of a reason to add classes, because it’s somewhere that hadn’t be available before and thus it’s knowledge hidden. This would also work with the knowledge found in Orr, as that information wasn’t even known before, thus it would be a great idea.

Also, with regards to how the bloodstones work, If you take a look at the monk in the first game, there was an entire aspect of their magic that was offensive, but the majority of their spells were for preservation purposes.

As with mesmer, the theme of their skills were chaotic magic, illusions and domination of the mind, but even in GW1, they had a couple of self healing spells. Same thing with elementalists, they had a few spells that healed. I’m not sure about the necromancer, but it seems more than likely that they too had self healing spells as well.

So while there is a predominant theme of magic per class, that magic can be bent slightly towards other purposes. With the necromancer, their healing spells involve aspects of corruption, like consume condition uses the corruption they were affected by and absorbs it, turning it into health for the necromancer. As opposed to the guardian who would purify conditions. Mesmers can manipulate the magical effects on themselves, dispelling it. Elementalists use their fire spells to literally burn away any conditions on them.

so while all four of them can dispel conditions, they do so in very different manners, even if all that happens is the condition is removed.

are you understanding a little better?

Yes quite a bit, it makes mee feel like Naruto’s chakra attunement to elements.
You are mostly attuned to 1 and can use only that one to full potentian, or at all.
But if you are skilled and practiced you might be able to use other ones to, or even combine them, trough not really as like someone who is attuned to that mainly.

Its like 95% and the rest is 5%.

I guess the skills and the details i made to the class are all quite fitting for destruction.
Any opinion on that?

You slightly missed it again. What you said in the first paragraph is partly true. You’re able to fully master the magic that you’re using, but again that magic doesn’t actually use the effects of other bloodstones. It doesnt even tap into the other bloodstones at all. The magic can be used to emulate the effects of other bloodstones. But each bloodstone magic is entirely separated, they are not tied in any way whatsoever except through the keystone, and the keystone doesnt emit magic. The only way for the effects of magic to be tied together would be for the bloodstones to be reunited. But skills don’t actually use the magic of other bloodstones.

Guys I want to fit all those informations that you’ve wrote and I have in my mind but it is not possible. Only 5000 words are allowed. I hope that people will read most of the comments.

Nekroseth.5186:

Yes quite a bit, it makes mee feel like Naruto’s chakra attunement to elements.
You are mostly attuned to 1 and can use only that one to full potentian, or at all.
But if you are skilled and practiced you might be able to use other ones to, or even combine them, trough not really as like someone who is attuned to that mainly.

Its like 95% and the rest is 5%.

I guess the skills and the details i made to the class are all quite fitting for destruction.
Any opinion on that?

When you open a new post just click to add attachements to add images. If you are editing your post click to more options under edit button.

ahhhaaaa i see. Whell anyway. If you so wish Cihandar, the post could be sorted out, but i suggest you collect the constructive and positive posts, that add something atleast to the class, or help in the concept or detail it, and only post those in order.

This way it would stil lhave quite a lot of detail, and comments and thouts, but would cut out the “spam”
Trough might require the deletion of THIS topic. (whitch i find not a really good idea.)
But anyway.

A few concept arts on how i picture the Arcanist
If you take te “fire” effect and imagine some arcane power instead of it couldwork.
There are some pictures of arcane barrage to.