Guild Wars 2

One thing I have constantly noticed with GW2 (this did not apply to gw1 for some reason) is the relation made between ideas for the game and World of Warcraft.

For example, the other day I was in Lion’s Arch, and I made a suggestion (I don’t even remember what it was), and the first 5 replies went along the lines of “go back to playing with Pandas.”

Seams like certain suggestions are being refuted because they are WoW-like. Not even that they are bad idea, but certain members do not want features solely for the purpose that it was in World of Warcraft.

Let take the example that made me make this thread;

Currently, there is another thread in the suggestions about progressive gear. I don’t really have an opinion on the topic, but if you scroll through the comments you can clearly see people are saying they specifically don’t like it because it was featured in WoW.

And the weirdest part is, that most of the features people are saying would be bad because they are in WoW are in 50+ MMOs from different companies from all around the world.

So, what I’m basically asking is please, if you dislike something, dislike it because it is bad and give the reason, not because it’s trendy to not like WoW.

Thanks for listening.

Too much to ask for the community imo. Not that GW2 has a bad community but I find that the more vocal ones are pretty passive-aggressive and angry. If they’re not shooting it down because its wow-like they’ll find another way to shoot it down.

This is the kind of stuff you talk with your guild about, not map chat or the forums.

The thing is, the community for GW2 takes great pride in the “mission” of ANet. That “mission” in turn is to be different. ANet has literally said that they do not want to be perceived as a WoW-clone.

A lot of people will bring in the “WoW Clause” simply because it’s the easiest way out. You said something about gear progression? Well, ANet has said that they do not want gear progression to be in their game, as that separates casuals from hardcores.

And let’s be honest: when you talk about MMORPGs, you’re pretty much always going to be talking about either WoW or Guid Wars. With that in mind, you kinda have to take a side. And since we’re on the Guild Wars forum, it’s obvious that the minority that wishes for the game to have popular features found in WoW to be in GW is going to get attacked.

BabelFish.7234:

This is the kind of stuff you talk with your guild about, not map chat or the forums.

Well, I never did mention this issue in map chat, I mentioned a suggestion. And I don’t have a guild.

??? Where is the suggestion for the game?

Lol sorry couldn’t resist being a wise guy. But honestly speaking, you’ll alwas hear people make WoW cracks because it’s the top mmorpg out there, although for the life of me i can’t understand how it kept the top spot for so long. I think the players of GW2 simply want GW2 to be as far away from the cookie cutter mmorpg setup as possible. However, as the OP said, there ARE some idea that could do will in this game that has been done in those other mmorpgs.

Arathor.5819:

BabelFish.7234:

This is the kind of stuff you talk with your guild about, not map chat or the forums.

Well, I never did mention this issue in map chat, I mentioned a suggestion. And I don’t have a guild.

You should find a guild. They’re great for helping you out, discussion, etc and they’re relatively friendly.

I agree about the “passive aggressive” nature of much of the vocal community here.

And yes, a lot of people can’t maturely discuss anything WoW related in an objective and unbiased manner. They are just too enticed by how ANet wanted to be different and can’t see/admit that WoW does actually have some redeeming qualities.

For example only yesterday I made a point about how encounter design in GW2 could learn a lot from WoW’s in terms of mechanics and pacing. Needless to say it didn’t go down too well.

I think comparison with WoW, and not only, can be useful. The GW2 community should maybe compare this game also with SWTOR, Rift and whatever else there is out there. I remember one thing that jumped at me when Mists of Pandaria introduced area looting. I was like look, they stole that from swtor, how could they?! Of course, they didn’t do something illegal, they just kept an eye open and got what was best for them from other MMOs. It’s an open market and the competition could only benefit us gamers. If we like something that’s also is in WoW or SWTOR maybe we should ask for it, but I completely agree with Arathor, let’s not trash something just because it was in another game. If it works for GW2, let’s use it! If it doesn’t work, let’s state our opinions as fans and let ANet see what the majority wants.

And if I can be a bit melodramatic, people need to hate something. SWTOR fans hated WoW, WoW fans hate Guild Wars, GW fans hate everybody else and so on. I’m exaggerating, of course, but if instead of that hate we would use the better part of our brains and come up with constructive criticism that would be great. And the fact is, it wouldn’t be great for ANet or for NCSoft, it would be great for us as fans of this game, as people who want the best experience and are willing to spend hundreds of hours in the game and have fun for years and years to come and tie friendships and whatever works for us.

Cheers!

Dee Jay.2460:

For example only yesterday I made a point about how encounter design in GW2 could learn a lot from WoW’s in terms of mechanics and pacing. Needless to say it didn’t go down too well.

Yeah, I could imagine. The only time I would honestly call the Guild Wars community downright terrible is when you mention anything about World of Warcraft.

In all due seriousness, WoW had some great features that a lot of people generally enjoyed. There are probably, hundreds of thousands of people who played World of Warcraft who play Guild Wars 2 now.

But, that being said, I honestly don’t think anyone on Earth seriously considers, or ever will consider Guild Wars 2 to be a WoW rip off. Even if EVERYTHING people said was similar to WoW was added ( Mounts, progressive gear, endgame ) – not saying that I support all of these ideas, just for sake of argument – even then Guild Wars 2 would be completely distinguishable from WoW.

It also kind of makes you wonder why people don’t like World of Warcraft. Actually, it’s not even that they don’t like it / don’t play it; it’s like they are offended it exists.

Varmyr.4253:

I think comparison with WoW, and not only, can be useful. The GW2 community should maybe compare this game also with SWTOR, Rift and whatever else there is out there. I remember one thing that jumped at me when Mists of Pandaria introduced area looting. I was like look, they stole that from swtor, how could they?! Of course, they didn’t do something illegal, they just kept an eye open and got what was best for them from other MMOs. It’s an open market and the competition could only benefit us gamers. If we like something that’s also is in WoW or SWTOR maybe we should ask for it, but I completely agree with Arathor, let’s not trash something just because it was in another game. If it works for GW2, let’s use it! If it doesn’t work, let’s state our opinions as fans and let ANet see what the majority wants.

And if I can be a bit melodramatic, people need to hate something. SWTOR fans hated WoW, WoW fans hate Guild Wars, GW fans hate everybody else and so on. I’m exaggerating, of course, but if instead of that hate we would use the better part of our brains and come up with constructive criticism that would be great. And the fact is, it wouldn’t be great for ANet or for NCSoft, it would be great for us as fans of this game, as people who want the best experience and are willing to spend hundreds of hours in the game and have fun for years and years to come and tie friendships and whatever works for us.

Cheers!

Also, this completely.

Stating that something is part of arena nets philosophy doesn’t mean that they’re anti-wow or anything. (i am being a bit nitpicky)

But as a whole, i agree. Simply because something exists in another form does not mean it can’t exist in cohesion with guild wars 2’s direction. Like mounts for example. Mounts can work perfectly fine if they’re implemented in the correct way.

However, there are things that would go entirely against GW2’s direction whether they are found in any existing mmo out there or not, such as gear progression.

At the end of the day a good idea is a good idea. Personally I dont give a flip if its been seen in another MMO. If it works and if it improves GW2 in some way…

Lets have it ! ! !

That goes for every MMO.

And i dont like that idea , because i dont like it.

GW2 is not a place for progressive gear , that is a very annoying kind of gameplay.

Im quite happy with looks only progression.

I specifically don’t like progression of gear because it serves no purpose other than keep getting you into the same situation, while making older content more and more trivial.

Specially if some of the better gear becomes available for purchase/crafting.

The results are – as seen in WoW – seeing groups requiring you to have 80.8 exotic gear to do 80.5 content.
(.5 and .8 are tier 5 and 8, hypotetically speaking)

All gear below the best starts selling for vendor value, so essentially you end up in the same situation you’re at now – using the same skills, same builds – but with more useless gear in the game database & market.

Progression through unlockable skills and profession mechanics, however, works great.
GW1 had it, and I don’t understand why GW2 doesn’t – but it should.

Aggressive replies are bad, whether they mention WoW or not.
Mentioning and comparing to WoW is a good thing.
It’s a successful game.
GW2 will benefit much from learning from WoW’s mistakes, but also from its qualities.

i think the reason people act like that is because they like GW2 specifically because it did so much different from WoW, and many suggestions have no place in the game, but seem to be suggested only because it would bring the game closer to the WoW formula that people are familiar with (like begging for endgame grind and giant raids that have to be repeated ad infinitum).

simply put, they’re telling you that if you want a game similar to WoW, then WoW is still a game, you don’t have to change non-WoW games into it.

Too much to ask for, I think. WoW is the only other MMO a lot of GW/GW2 players mention because they don’t know anything about other ones. I’ve seen fewer than 10 mentions/references to EQ2, Ragnarok Online, SWG, Champions Online, CoH/CoV, etc. throughout the 2 months of these forums, and I don’t think that number will suddenly rise, ever. Maybe 20 mentions by 2013. The reason its only WoW is because that’s all they know of. Yeah, its the cheap way out, but they’re likely not MMO’ers so its a lot easier to just mention the biggest one out there rather than learn about other games.

They all have good features. They all have bad ones too. GW2 also has good and bad features. But the GW community is incredibly self-righteous, and it always has been.