Guild Wars 2

kenshinakh.3672:

That wouldn’t work because then a thief will probably have 0s of stealth time XD and won’t be able to hit off a backstab or other stealth abilities.

Its called stunning and rooting every other class has to do it for good moves? WoW had it SAP etc but you could use you skills to get away instead of the current mechanic

vespers.1759:

Jrunyon.3012:

Shrilly.7184:

btw this thrwead is in suggestions to anet

Where in your post did you make a suggestion to Anet? Please quote it in a reply.

Thought so.

dis guy is afraid his precious 2 spam thief is gonna get nerfed so he can’t take on 20 people at once anymore.

Implying a thief could ever take on anyone, ever.

L2P issue. Move along.

Also, the suggestion that stealth breaks on damage – what are you guys smoking?

It’s not like we already take damage from anything that breathes in our general direction, now we also need to be visible while dying.

At least save us from the pain of being visible.

We’ll die either way, so I’d prefer it if we could at least lie around and bleed to death without our attackers dancing on our visible corpses.

Rika.7249:

vespers.1759:

Jrunyon.3012:

Shrilly.7184:

btw this thrwead is in suggestions to anet

Where in your post did you make a suggestion to Anet? Please quote it in a reply.

Thought so.

dis guy is afraid his precious 2 spam thief is gonna get nerfed so he can’t take on 20 people at once anymore.

Implying a thief could ever take on anyone, ever.

L2P issue. Move along.

Also, the suggestion that stealth breaks on damage – what are you guys smoking?

It’s not like we already take damage from anything that breathes in our general direction, now we also need to be visible while dying.

At least save us from the pain of being visible.

We’ll die either way, so I’d prefer it if we could at least lie around and bleed to death without our attackers dancing on our visible corpses.

You are going against true logic and fact when you put nothign as evedince against the video we have..if you cant do that thats L2P issues for you he took on 50 enough 20 should be a easy task and it will teach you to learn stun and instead of mashing 2 buttons like every other class!

Shrilly.7184:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shadow’s Refuge gives you 10s of invisibility, but like all invisibility skills, you’re immediately revealed if you attack. Also, it has a 60s cooldown (used to be 30s too). They can’t keep going invisible for 10+ seconds. Never ever going to happen, and if it happens, then maybe you’re getting a very bad case of culling, or it’s time to go talk to the eye doctors!

Anyways… there’s a thread dedicated to this in the thief forum. It’s been out for several months.

Are you scared it won’t get real publicity and thieves won’t bash it all day? I get less arguments on here. Please explain how the thief in the video is able to keep stelthing not to mention caster can’t attack wildly when the go stealth so the squishues really melt like my mesmer

No, why would I be scared o.O? I’ve been participating in this type of thread for over 3 months already. It’s the same old debate over and over, and the people advocating for something ridiculous usually don’t know how to fight the thief class. In the first place, why are people asking for excessive nerfs to classes that they don’t know how to play against? Why aren’t they asking people for tips on how to fight instead? Tell me. Why is there no thread on the thief forum asking people who to counter thieves, but there’s a ton of threads asking for nerfs and a ton of counter arguments on nerfs? It just shows that people skip the “Learn how to fight a class” to “Nerf the class because I don’t want to learn how to beat a class”.

Can you answer me that? By the way, I play elementalist, and warrior, and thief. I know how to kill most types of thieves using those three classes I play. And usually, a good counter against a thief is another thief, but in so many videos of people showing thief being OP, they fail to show moments where they get countered by another thief. That’s because some players, be a thief or some other class, don’t know how to fight against a thief.

Shrilly.7184:

kenshinakh.3672:

That wouldn’t work because then a thief will probably have 0s of stealth time XD and won’t be able to hit off a backstab or other stealth abilities.

Its called stunning and rooting every other class has to do it for good moves? WoW had it SAP etc but you could use you skills to get away instead of the current mechanic

You have basilisk venom which is on a 45s cooldown. It’s also easy for a smart player to get out of it via condition remove or stun breaker. Thieves aren’t like WoW rogues either. They use active stealth combat and don’t do “stun-locks”. The thief’s combat requires actively stealthing to “trick” the opponent. But understand that it doesn’t reduce damage at all, so all it is is an illusion. They still take full damage from everything. Stealthing using CnD also costs a lot of initiative. If you dodge that CnD, or that backstab, then that’s the first step to beating a thief.

Rezzet.3614:

1.Attack Rate vs High Damage – normally classes need high attack rate to compensate for the lack of damage that is not the case with the thiefs in this game and actually offers a huge advantage crit builds usually hit for 1.8-2.5k damage wich doesnt seem a big deal but now lets take thief’s attack speed to the formula 1.8×4=7200 damage per second or lets make it non crit 800×4=3200 damage per second as thiefs have an attack rate of 1/4

2.Initiative System- it is a bit gamebreaking having a class able to spam huge damage skills without a cooldown nor penalty.

3.the obvoius Stealth: it is a mechanic that has never worked on any other MMO before and in this game it is implemented in a much worse way.

4.the extras you mix with all these Shadowstep and teleportation assures thief kills as his target will never out run him even with swiftness and viceversa a skilled thief wont be caught because he ll simply stealth and/or teleport away from harm and reset the fight.

as for those who say thiefs can be countered yes some but why is it ok for a class to go full glass cannon and not be punished for mistakes also even if the defending player is a pure toughness healing build thiefs can apply conditions in a blink over and over thus rendering toughness useless for the player while dealing huge direct damage.

both Direct and Condition damage are superior than that of most classes.

1. What the hell are you about?
2. There is a downside. Weapon switch.
3. Stealth is fine.
4. Thieves are intended to be slippery. Anet has said so.

Glass cannon thieves do pay a penalty; they die almost instantly by random AOE in large fights.

You’re complaining about condition builds being able to apply conditions because they ignore armor? Really? This is thief-specific how, exactly?

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shadow’s Refuge gives you 10s of invisibility, but like all invisibility skills, you’re immediately revealed if you attack. Also, it has a 60s cooldown (used to be 30s too). They can’t keep going invisible for 10+ seconds. Never ever going to happen, and if it happens, then maybe you’re getting a very bad case of culling, or it’s time to go talk to the eye doctors!

Anyways… there’s a thread dedicated to this in the thief forum. It’s been out for several months.

Are you scared it won’t get real publicity and thieves won’t bash it all day? I get less arguments on here. Please explain how the thief in the video is able to keep stelthing not to mention caster can’t attack wildly when the go stealth so the squishues really melt like my mesmer

No, why would I be scared o.O? I’ve been participating in this type of thread for over 3 months already. It’s the same old debate over and over, and the people advocating for something ridiculous usually don’t know how to fight the thief class. In the first place, why are people asking for excessive nerfs to classes that they don’t know how to play against? Why aren’t they asking people for tips on how to fight instead? Tell me. Why is there no thread on the thief forum asking people who to counter thieves, but there’s a ton of threads asking for nerfs and a ton of counter arguments on nerfs? It just shows that people skip the “Learn how to fight a class” to “Nerf the class because I don’t want to learn how to beat a class”.

Can you answer me that? By the way, I play elementalist, and warrior, and thief. I know how to kill most types of thieves using those three classes I play. And usually, a good counter against a thief is another thief, but in so many videos of people showing thief being OP, they fail to show moments where they get countered by another thief. That’s because some players, be a thief or some other class, don’t know how to fight against a thief.

Shrilly.7184:

kenshinakh.3672:

That wouldn’t work because then a thief will probably have 0s of stealth time XD and won’t be able to hit off a backstab or other stealth abilities.

Its called stunning and rooting every other class has to do it for good moves? WoW had it SAP etc but you could use you skills to get away instead of the current mechanic

You have basilisk venom which is on a 45s cooldown. It’s also easy for a smart player to get out of it via condition remove or stun breaker. Thieves aren’t like WoW rogues either. They use active stealth combat and don’t do “stun-locks”. The thief’s combat requires actively stealthing to “trick” the opponent. But understand that it doesn’t reduce damage at all, so all it is is an illusion. They still take full damage from everything. Stealthing using CnD also costs a lot of initiative. If you dodge that CnD, or that backstab, then that’s the first step to beating a thief.

There are a lot of how to’s but sure this works on the rogue that doesnt know what the hell he is doing and duh your stun is supposed to be broken out of its part of the routine i really have to break it down for you dont i? Heres how every other class works in pvp warriors have to use bollas to get 100 blades and mesmers have to use another like curtain to pull them to you on the ground which you can stability out of then you use blurred frenzy its all part of the gameplay. and to me initiative after 80 really does renew rather more quickly than my CD’s and a counter against the thief is the thief? so you suggest everyone plays thieves?….

Shrilly.7184:

There are a lot of how to’s but sure this works on the rogue that doesnt know what the hell he is doing and duh your stun is supposed to be broken out of its part of the routine i really have to break it down for you dont i? Heres how every other class works in pvp warriors have to use bollas to get 100 blades and mesmers have to use another like curtain to pull them to you on the ground which you can stability out of then you use blurred frenzy its all part of the gameplay. and to me initiative after 80 really does renew rather more quickly than my CD’s and a counter against the thief is the thief? so you suggest everyone plays thieves?….

If you don’t know how to fight a class, what’s the best way to learn? Play the class or have a friend keep fighting you until you learn all his tricks and moves. That’s the best way.

In case you haven’t noticed, thieves have no stability except for their Dagger Spin, and when they spin, they’re visible and it’s one of those moments to burst them down.

Also, I said a counter against a thief is anyone who knows how to fight a thief. However, usually a thief countering a thief is the easiest because you’d think a thief would know how to beat their own class… apparently from some videos, they do not. That’s the sad part.

Initiative may recharge faster than cooldowns, but initiative is shared with all the thieve’s weapons. So that means a thief can’t burn all his initiative while using D/D and then swap to P/P and spam all his moves again. That’s their flaw, and your advantage. You can use two weapons without having shared resources. So use it. That’s key to playing a class on GW2. You gotta use your weapon swaps, not stick to one weapon and wait for the cooldowns.

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

There are a lot of how to’s but sure this works on the rogue that doesnt know what the hell he is doing and duh your stun is supposed to be broken out of its part of the routine i really have to break it down for you dont i? Heres how every other class works in pvp warriors have to use bollas to get 100 blades and mesmers have to use another like curtain to pull them to you on the ground which you can stability out of then you use blurred frenzy its all part of the gameplay. and to me initiative after 80 really does renew rather more quickly than my CD’s and a counter against the thief is the thief? so you suggest everyone plays thieves?….

If you don’t know how to fight a class, what’s the best way to learn? Play the class or have a friend keep fighting you until you learn all his tricks and moves. That’s the best way.

In case you haven’t noticed, thieves have no stability except for their Dagger Spin, and when they spin, they’re visible and it’s one of those moments to burst them down.

Also, I said a counter against a thief is anyone who knows how to fight a thief. However, usually a thief countering a thief is the easiest because you’d think a thief would know how to beat their own class… apparently from some videos, they do not. That’s the sad part.

Initiative may recharge faster than cooldowns, but initiative is shared with all the thieve’s weapons. So that means a thief can’t burn all his initiative while using D/D and then swap to P/P and spam all his moves again. That’s their flaw, and your advantage. You can use two weapons without having shared resources. So use it. That’s key to playing a class on GW2. You gotta use your weapon swaps, not stick to one weapon and wait for the cooldowns.

hardly a plus when the class you play against has a mechanic to make them ghosts im done witht he thread my mission is complete because i got it onto suggestions. and you failed yours i have yet to hear of a class that can do what that thief did in the video point case and closed

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

There are a lot of how to’s but sure this works on the rogue that doesnt know what the hell he is doing and duh your stun is supposed to be broken out of its part of the routine i really have to break it down for you dont i? Heres how every other class works in pvp warriors have to use bollas to get 100 blades and mesmers have to use another like curtain to pull them to you on the ground which you can stability out of then you use blurred frenzy its all part of the gameplay. and to me initiative after 80 really does renew rather more quickly than my CD’s and a counter against the thief is the thief? so you suggest everyone plays thieves?….

If you don’t know how to fight a class, what’s the best way to learn?

how about you play one of the screwed 3 (ranger, necro, engi) and then come back and tell us thieves are not 1000% better than them.

instead of telling us to L2P or try a thief, how about you come down and see how the other side lives. i don’t need to play a thief to know they are totally broken, but clearly you need to play something that isn’t a thief,ele,mes to know how poor the other classes are.

Shrilly.7184:

hardly a plus when the class you play against has a mechanic to make them ghosts im done witht he thread my mission is complete because i got it onto suggestions. and you failed yours i have yet to hear of a class that can do what that thief did in the video point case and closed

Good job. Case closed, time to let this suggestion get buried. My goal was just to point out that your “suggestion” isn’t a suggestion. You avoided my debate points anyways, which simply shows you’re just asking for a response without actually thinking about it. Since you insist on closing your own case… I don’t mind lol.

vespers.1759:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

There are a lot of how to’s but sure this works on the rogue that doesnt know what the hell he is doing and duh your stun is supposed to be broken out of its part of the routine i really have to break it down for you dont i? Heres how every other class works in pvp warriors have to use bollas to get 100 blades and mesmers have to use another like curtain to pull them to you on the ground which you can stability out of then you use blurred frenzy its all part of the gameplay. and to me initiative after 80 really does renew rather more quickly than my CD’s and a counter against the thief is the thief? so you suggest everyone plays thieves?….

If you don’t know how to fight a class, what’s the best way to learn?

how about you play one of the screwed 3 (ranger, necro, engi) and then come back and tell us thieves are not 1000% better than them.

instead of telling us to L2P or try a thief, how about you come down and see how the other side lives. i don’t need to play a thief to know they are totally broken, but clearly you need to play something that isn’t a thief,ele,mes to know how poor the other classes are.

And I am working on my ranger. So you’ll know soon enough. I have friends who play necro and depending on the thief build they face, it isn’t an issue for them. Oh, and I have friends who play warrior and guardian too and they usually don’t have issues with thieves.

Just saying. I speak from experience and from others’ experiences. If there wasn’t any feasible way of beating a class, then you’d be hearing from me. Thief isn’t one of them for the classes I’ve played so far, and I am willing to bet I will beat thieves on other classes too because I know how thieves fight.

kenshinakh.3672:

vespers.1759:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

There are a lot of how to’s but sure this works on the rogue that doesnt know what the hell he is doing and duh your stun is supposed to be broken out of its part of the routine i really have to break it down for you dont i? Heres how every other class works in pvp warriors have to use bollas to get 100 blades and mesmers have to use another like curtain to pull them to you on the ground which you can stability out of then you use blurred frenzy its all part of the gameplay. and to me initiative after 80 really does renew rather more quickly than my CD’s and a counter against the thief is the thief? so you suggest everyone plays thieves?….

If you don’t know how to fight a class, what’s the best way to learn?

how about you play one of the screwed 3 (ranger, necro, engi) and then come back and tell us thieves are not 1000% better than them.

instead of telling us to L2P or try a thief, how about you come down and see how the other side lives. i don’t need to play a thief to know they are totally broken, but clearly you need to play something that isn’t a thief,ele,mes to know how poor the other classes are.

And I am working on my ranger. So you’ll know soon enough. I have friends who play necro and depending on the thief build they face, it isn’t an issue for them. Oh, and I have friends who play warrior and guardian too and they usually don’t have issues with thieves.

Just saying. I speak from experience and from others’ experiences. If there wasn’t any feasible way of beating a class, then you’d be hearing from me. Thief isn’t one of them for the classes I’ve played so far, and I am willing to bet I will beat thieves on other classes too because I know how thieves fight.

send me a video when you do!

vespers.1759:

kenshinakh.3672:

vespers.1759:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

There are a lot of how to’s but sure this works on the rogue that doesnt know what the hell he is doing and duh your stun is supposed to be broken out of its part of the routine i really have to break it down for you dont i? Heres how every other class works in pvp warriors have to use bollas to get 100 blades and mesmers have to use another like curtain to pull them to you on the ground which you can stability out of then you use blurred frenzy its all part of the gameplay. and to me initiative after 80 really does renew rather more quickly than my CD’s and a counter against the thief is the thief? so you suggest everyone plays thieves?….

If you don’t know how to fight a class, what’s the best way to learn?

how about you play one of the screwed 3 (ranger, necro, engi) and then come back and tell us thieves are not 1000% better than them.

instead of telling us to L2P or try a thief, how about you come down and see how the other side lives. i don’t need to play a thief to know they are totally broken, but clearly you need to play something that isn’t a thief,ele,mes to know how poor the other classes are.

And I am working on my ranger. So you’ll know soon enough. I have friends who play necro and depending on the thief build they face, it isn’t an issue for them. Oh, and I have friends who play warrior and guardian too and they usually don’t have issues with thieves.

Just saying. I speak from experience and from others’ experiences. If there wasn’t any feasible way of beating a class, then you’d be hearing from me. Thief isn’t one of them for the classes I’ve played so far, and I am willing to bet I will beat thieves on other classes too because I know how thieves fight.

send me a video when you do!

Sounds like a plan.

vespers.1759:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

There are a lot of how to’s but sure this works on the rogue that doesnt know what the hell he is doing and duh your stun is supposed to be broken out of its part of the routine i really have to break it down for you dont i? Heres how every other class works in pvp warriors have to use bollas to get 100 blades and mesmers have to use another like curtain to pull them to you on the ground which you can stability out of then you use blurred frenzy its all part of the gameplay. and to me initiative after 80 really does renew rather more quickly than my CD’s and a counter against the thief is the thief? so you suggest everyone plays thieves?….

If you don’t know how to fight a class, what’s the best way to learn?

how about you play one of the screwed 3 (ranger, necro, engi) and then come back and tell us thieves are not 1000% better than them.

instead of telling us to L2P or try a thief, how about you come down and see how the other side lives. i don’t need to play a thief to know they are totally broken, but clearly you need to play something that isn’t a thief,ele,mes to know how poor the other classes are.

they wont get it

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

hardly a plus when the class you play against has a mechanic to make them ghosts im done witht he thread my mission is complete because i got it onto suggestions. and you failed yours i have yet to hear of a class that can do what that thief did in the video point case and closed

Good job. Case closed, time to let this suggestion get buried. My goal was just to point out that your “suggestion” isn’t a suggestion. You avoided my debate points anyways, which simply shows you’re just asking for a response without actually thinking about it. Since you insist on closing your own case… I don’t mind lol.

i proved my points time and time again your a hypocrite you still wont tell me a class that can pull off what the thief did

Shrilly.7184:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

hardly a plus when the class you play against has a mechanic to make them ghosts im done witht he thread my mission is complete because i got it onto suggestions. and you failed yours i have yet to hear of a class that can do what that thief did in the video point case and closed

Good job. Case closed, time to let this suggestion get buried. My goal was just to point out that your “suggestion” isn’t a suggestion. You avoided my debate points anyways, which simply shows you’re just asking for a response without actually thinking about it. Since you insist on closing your own case… I don’t mind lol.

i proved my points time and time again your a hypocrite you still wont tell me a class that can pull off what the thief did

Well, if another class can do the same exact thing as a thief, then isn’t that just another thief? The strength in other classes do not lie in stealth. It’s simple as that. No other classes can do what a thief can do because they’re not thieves. Same goes for thieves. They can’t do what mesmers do, neither can they do what warriors do, and etc. Classes are unique for a reason… I thought that wasn’t a serious question.

By the way, in that video, the thieves on the opposing side are TERRIBLE. That’s proof that even thieves don’t know their classes well enough to counter. If you want, I can take some time out of my week and compile a video of how my thief destroys other thieves and that type of gameplay showed in that video is only possible against players who are “mindless”, or there was a serious case of culling. By the way, I find it really sad that that zerg didn’t even attempt to target the thief… But as soon as they were coordinated and hit him, he goes down pretty quickly. Initially, they just went “mehhh, whatever”. Not all zergs are that lenient on an attacking thief… lol.

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

hardly a plus when the class you play against has a mechanic to make them ghosts im done witht he thread my mission is complete because i got it onto suggestions. and you failed yours i have yet to hear of a class that can do what that thief did in the video point case and closed

Good job. Case closed, time to let this suggestion get buried. My goal was just to point out that your “suggestion” isn’t a suggestion. You avoided my debate points anyways, which simply shows you’re just asking for a response without actually thinking about it. Since you insist on closing your own case… I don’t mind lol.

i proved my points time and time again your a hypocrite you still wont tell me a class that can pull off what the thief did

Well, if another class can do the same exact thing as a thief, then isn’t that just another thief? The strength in other classes do not lie in stealth. It’s simple as that. No other classes can do what a thief can do because they’re not thieves. Same goes for thieves. They can’t do what mesmers do, neither can they do what warriors do, and etc. Classes are unique for a reason… I thought that wasn’t a serious question.

By the way, in that video, the thieves on the opposing side are TERRIBLE. That’s proof that even thieves don’t know their classes well enough to counter. If you want, I can take some time out of my week and compile a video of how my thief destroys other thieves and that type of gameplay showed in that video is only possible against players who are “mindless”, or there was a serious case of culling. By the way, I find it really sad that that zerg didn’t even attempt to target the thief… But as soon as they were coordinated and hit him, he goes down pretty quickly. Initially, they just went “mehhh, whatever”. Not all zergs are that lenient on an attacking thief… lol.

And what exactly can they do can they take on a whole zerg? the thieves cant find each other simple as that.btw they did try targeting you cant target someone who goes invis every second i know i try to and the times he does go down is when he screwed up his stealth rotation after about 2 minutes of carnage. But I Did find the answer to our problems it even goes along the lines of what your saying tso i totally agree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

Shrilly.7184:

And what exactly can they do can they take on a whole zerg? the thieves cant find each other simple as that.btw they did try targeting you cant target someone who goes invis every second i know i try to and the times he does go down is when he screwed up his stealth rotation after about 2 minutes of carnage. But I Did find the answer to our problems it even goes along the lines of what your saying tso i totally agree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

Okay. I really don’t get why you’re praising a thief who took on a zerg that has reaction speeds of a <insert something really slow>. They probably tried to click target the thief instead of tab or auto target nearest.

Also, that zerg was pretty slow at healing their friends. Even the guys being attacked just didn’t really notice the thief until a good long moment after… If you’re saying that zerg’s reaction speed is your level of skill level and reaction speed, then I can’t say much…

By the way, my warrior and D/D elementalist can definitely go through a zerg like that provided that I’m using the terrain to LOS and drag them out of the zerg to finish them (since those classes have no stealth). If I go bunker on my warrior, I could take a ton more hits too. That thief just happened to avoid damage because that zerg is so dang slow at reacting lol.

You totally ignored posted video but thats alright i got another one for your enjoyment. (btw look at the likes verse the dislikes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beHJkv5gaIU
When a thief goes invisible you cannot target or see him crazy sounding i know because you see your thief the whole time on your screen they have nough time to come in do a huge hit stealth sdo another huge hit stealth until the other player is dead.a whole zergs not stupid the probubly they all have slow computers and reaction time cant be more slim than a shark attack. sounds fishy to me haha. and of course you can pick off individuals and im talkign about run into 50 people and start killing everyone and no i have a warrior with lots of toughness if i ran into that id be dead before i reached the other end.

Shrilly.7184:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

hardly a plus when the class you play against has a mechanic to make them ghosts im done witht he thread my mission is complete because i got it onto suggestions. and you failed yours i have yet to hear of a class that can do what that thief did in the video point case and closed

Good job. Case closed, time to let this suggestion get buried. My goal was just to point out that your “suggestion” isn’t a suggestion. You avoided my debate points anyways, which simply shows you’re just asking for a response without actually thinking about it. Since you insist on closing your own case… I don’t mind lol.

i proved my points time and time again your a hypocrite you still wont tell me a class that can pull off what the thief did

Well, if another class can do the same exact thing as a thief, then isn’t that just another thief? The strength in other classes do not lie in stealth. It’s simple as that. No other classes can do what a thief can do because they’re not thieves. Same goes for thieves. They can’t do what mesmers do, neither can they do what warriors do, and etc. Classes are unique for a reason… I thought that wasn’t a serious question.

By the way, in that video, the thieves on the opposing side are TERRIBLE. That’s proof that even thieves don’t know their classes well enough to counter. If you want, I can take some time out of my week and compile a video of how my thief destroys other thieves and that type of gameplay showed in that video is only possible against players who are “mindless”, or there was a serious case of culling. By the way, I find it really sad that that zerg didn’t even attempt to target the thief… But as soon as they were coordinated and hit him, he goes down pretty quickly. Initially, they just went “mehhh, whatever”. Not all zergs are that lenient on an attacking thief… lol.

And what exactly can they do can they take on a whole zerg? the thieves cant find each other simple as that.btw they did try targeting you cant target someone who goes invis every second i know i try to and the times he does go down is when he screwed up his stealth rotation after about 2 minutes of carnage. But I Did find the answer to our problems it even goes along the lines of what your saying tso i totally agree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

‘take on a whole zerg’ roflmao
as soon as those zerglings started actively hunting him he died; he picked out seperate targets and ‘hid in the crowd’ using the vegetable zerg members as C+D sheep (im almost positive some of the zerg players must have been asleep in that video; even if the thief is culled its very hard to miss those number popping up over your character)

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Shrilly.7184:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

hardly a plus when the class you play against has a mechanic to make them ghosts im done witht he thread my mission is complete because i got it onto suggestions. and you failed yours i have yet to hear of a class that can do what that thief did in the video point case and closed

Good job. Case closed, time to let this suggestion get buried. My goal was just to point out that your “suggestion” isn’t a suggestion. You avoided my debate points anyways, which simply shows you’re just asking for a response without actually thinking about it. Since you insist on closing your own case… I don’t mind lol.

i proved my points time and time again your a hypocrite you still wont tell me a class that can pull off what the thief did

Well, if another class can do the same exact thing as a thief, then isn’t that just another thief? The strength in other classes do not lie in stealth. It’s simple as that. No other classes can do what a thief can do because they’re not thieves. Same goes for thieves. They can’t do what mesmers do, neither can they do what warriors do, and etc. Classes are unique for a reason… I thought that wasn’t a serious question.

By the way, in that video, the thieves on the opposing side are TERRIBLE. That’s proof that even thieves don’t know their classes well enough to counter. If you want, I can take some time out of my week and compile a video of how my thief destroys other thieves and that type of gameplay showed in that video is only possible against players who are “mindless”, or there was a serious case of culling. By the way, I find it really sad that that zerg didn’t even attempt to target the thief… But as soon as they were coordinated and hit him, he goes down pretty quickly. Initially, they just went “mehhh, whatever”. Not all zergs are that lenient on an attacking thief… lol.

And what exactly can they do can they take on a whole zerg? the thieves cant find each other simple as that.btw they did try targeting you cant target someone who goes invis every second i know i try to and the times he does go down is when he screwed up his stealth rotation after about 2 minutes of carnage. But I Did find the answer to our problems it even goes along the lines of what your saying tso i totally agree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

‘take on a whole zerg’ roflmao
as soon as those zerglings started actively hunting him he died; he picked out seperate targets and ‘hid in the crowd’ using the vegetable zerg members as C+D sheep (im almost positive some of the zerg players must have been asleep in that video; even if the thief is culled its very hard to miss those number popping up over your character)

alright so they all suck that whole zerg sucked congrats you win your case no concrete evidence but thats how kids want to win debates these days oh i found more proof ^^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVFg2iWFKmw
this is exactly what it looks like on my warrior usually its a D/D heartseeker tho even the video uploader said so “When the thief stealths, he is able to get off 4 full shots off before even starting to become visible and isn’t fully rendered until shot 5 or 6. His dagger set was on CD from weapon swap but what usually happens is a series of heartseekers from stealth after c/d+bs which makes the.”

Shrilly.7184:

You totally ignored posted video but thats alright i got another one for your enjoyment. (btw look at the likes verse the dislikes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beHJkv5gaIU
When a thief goes invisible you cannot target or see him crazy sounding i know because you see your thief the whole time on your screen they have nough time to come in do a huge hit stealth sdo another huge hit stealth until the other player is dead.a whole zergs not stupid the probubly they all have slow computers and reaction time cant be more slim than a shark attack. sounds fishy to me haha. and of course you can pick off individuals and im talkign about run into 50 people and start killing everyone and no i have a warrior with lots of toughness if i ran into that id be dead before i reached the other end.

Yeah… you showed me a video of a guy going on a thief and killing some rather bad SPvP players >.<… I stopped when I saw the thief taking down a guy running away with spam HS. That guy running away didn’t even do a good job running away (no dodges, and no slows, etc.).

If you want to keep showing me videos of thieves p0wning bad players, then go right ahead. You are just proving my point that people don’t know how to fight a thief. By the way, my warrior is a shout healing bunker warrior. My armor gives no toughness, just vitality. I can actually run away from a zerg while they smack me with ranged weapons, but it only works if I got swiftness on or else they’ll just catch up. Definitely not a zerg of 50 people (unless they’re distracted), but the video of the thief vs zerg wasn’t even 30 people.

The problem with these “mindless” zergs is that they’re mindless. They can only target things that they can click on. The case you showed is just another case of mindless zerg being mindless.

By the way, the video you showed me was a heavy case of culling in SPvP. They fixed most of the culling issue in SPVP and that doesn’t happen often (if at all) anymore. I never had a bad case of culling like that though.

PS: What happened to case closed o.O? I was pretty sure you closed your case already… maybe you’re replying because you still want to prove me wrong? I don’t care either way because I can just keep counter replying… But I might stop because this will turn into an endless loop. I really hope a mod merges this into the thief discussion to keep the point reverent. It doesn’t seem like a suggestion thread to start with.

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

You totally ignored posted video but thats alright i got another one for your enjoyment. (btw look at the likes verse the dislikes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beHJkv5gaIU
When a thief goes invisible you cannot target or see him crazy sounding i know because you see your thief the whole time on your screen they have nough time to come in do a huge hit stealth sdo another huge hit stealth until the other player is dead.a whole zergs not stupid the probubly they all have slow computers and reaction time cant be more slim than a shark attack. sounds fishy to me haha. and of course you can pick off individuals and im talkign about run into 50 people and start killing everyone and no i have a warrior with lots of toughness if i ran into that id be dead before i reached the other end.

Yeah… you showed me a video of a guy going on a thief and killing some rather bad SPvP players >.<… I stopped when I saw the thief taking down a guy running away with spam HS. That guy running away didn’t even do a good job running away (no dodges, and no slows, etc.).

If you want to keep showing me videos of thieves p0wning bad players, then go right ahead. You are just proving my point that people don’t know how to fight a thief. By the way, my warrior is a shout healing bunker warrior. My armor gives no toughness, just vitality. I can actually run away from a zerg while they smack me with ranged weapons, but it only works if I got swiftness on or else they’ll just catch up. Definitely not a zerg of 50 people (unless they’re distracted), but the video of the thief vs zerg wasn’t even 30 people.

The problem with these “mindless” zergs is that they’re mindless. They can only target things that they can click on. The case you showed is just another case of mindless zerg being mindless.

again so correct all those people were terrible i stand corrected why did they even bother to buy the game all those 50+ people? by the way the devs even admit this right here and there is no fix in WvW since btw “I just want to clarify this post: we have a fix for culling issues in Structured PvP but that fix does not yet extend to other game types.” sorry guys

Shrilly.7184:

again so correct all those people were terrible i stand corrected why did they even bother to buy the game all those 50+ people? by the way the devs even admit this right here and there is no fix in WvW since btw “I just want to clarify this post: we have a fix for culling issues in Structured PvP but that fix does not yet extend to other game types.” sorry guys

Then the only issue is culling, not the stealth itself? And all this time I thought you were complaining about stealth and were advocating for some extreme action such as removing it…

By the way, that zerg is less than 30. Not 50+. Less than 30. They could have countered him by just reviving the downed players, but they chose not to. That’s another mechanic that is an advantage for the zerg, and there’s plenty of people on the forums that ask for downstate to be removed.

Just for your information, a smart group can counter a culling thief (usually the worst abuse of culling comes from P/D bleed thieves though), is to cast channel spells, and/or count to 2-3. That’s my secret sauce for smacking those cull abusers. Use it well.

the second group faced was 50+ and of course they cant revive in time some were able to hit him away when he stealthed but to downled players if you go down to a thief your not getting back up stealth flag. no dont remove stealth thats what the class is im talkign abotu stealthing so much and never coming out of it unable to target till its too late.

People don’t like to hear it, but it’s a L2P issue. Good players don’t have so much problems with thiefs. Don’t run around alone, always have a finger on your stunbreak and cc the thief.

Shrilly.7184:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Shrilly.7184:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

hardly a plus when the class you play against has a mechanic to make them ghosts im done witht he thread my mission is complete because i got it onto suggestions. and you failed yours i have yet to hear of a class that can do what that thief did in the video point case and closed

Good job. Case closed, time to let this suggestion get buried. My goal was just to point out that your “suggestion” isn’t a suggestion. You avoided my debate points anyways, which simply shows you’re just asking for a response without actually thinking about it. Since you insist on closing your own case… I don’t mind lol.

i proved my points time and time again your a hypocrite you still wont tell me a class that can pull off what the thief did

Well, if another class can do the same exact thing as a thief, then isn’t that just another thief? The strength in other classes do not lie in stealth. It’s simple as that. No other classes can do what a thief can do because they’re not thieves. Same goes for thieves. They can’t do what mesmers do, neither can they do what warriors do, and etc. Classes are unique for a reason… I thought that wasn’t a serious question.

By the way, in that video, the thieves on the opposing side are TERRIBLE. That’s proof that even thieves don’t know their classes well enough to counter. If you want, I can take some time out of my week and compile a video of how my thief destroys other thieves and that type of gameplay showed in that video is only possible against players who are “mindless”, or there was a serious case of culling. By the way, I find it really sad that that zerg didn’t even attempt to target the thief… But as soon as they were coordinated and hit him, he goes down pretty quickly. Initially, they just went “mehhh, whatever”. Not all zergs are that lenient on an attacking thief… lol.

And what exactly can they do can they take on a whole zerg? the thieves cant find each other simple as that.btw they did try targeting you cant target someone who goes invis every second i know i try to and the times he does go down is when he screwed up his stealth rotation after about 2 minutes of carnage. But I Did find the answer to our problems it even goes along the lines of what your saying tso i totally agree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

‘take on a whole zerg’ roflmao
as soon as those zerglings started actively hunting him he died; he picked out seperate targets and ‘hid in the crowd’ using the vegetable zerg members as C+D sheep (im almost positive some of the zerg players must have been asleep in that video; even if the thief is culled its very hard to miss those number popping up over your character)

alright so they all suck that whole zerg sucked congrats you win your case no concrete evidence but thats how kids want to win debates these days oh i found more proof ^^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVFg2iWFKmw
this is exactly what it looks like on my warrior usually its a D/D heartseeker tho even the video uploader said so “When the thief stealths, he is able to get off 4 full shots off before even starting to become visible and isn’t fully rendered until shot 5 or 6. His dagger set was on CD from weapon swap but what usually happens is a series of heartseekers from stealth after c/d+bs which makes the.”

the ‘stealth rendering bug’ issue seems stupid; the first shot missed, the second was blocked (somehow… no idea how) the third was evaded
please; if you’re complaining about a class have the decency to learn how it works; stealth doesnt break unless it does damage

how about dodging that heartseeker spam and making them waste initiative (you… do know how that works right?)

-also; the evidence was in the video that someone posted

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Shrilly.7184:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Shrilly.7184:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

kenshinakh.3672:

Shrilly.7184:

hardly a plus when the class you play against has a mechanic to make them ghosts im done witht he thread my mission is complete because i got it onto suggestions. and you failed yours i have yet to hear of a class that can do what that thief did in the video point case and closed

Good job. Case closed, time to let this suggestion get buried. My goal was just to point out that your “suggestion” isn’t a suggestion. You avoided my debate points anyways, which simply shows you’re just asking for a response without actually thinking about it. Since you insist on closing your own case… I don’t mind lol.

i proved my points time and time again your a hypocrite you still wont tell me a class that can pull off what the thief did

Well, if another class can do the same exact thing as a thief, then isn’t that just another thief? The strength in other classes do not lie in stealth. It’s simple as that. No other classes can do what a thief can do because they’re not thieves. Same goes for thieves. They can’t do what mesmers do, neither can they do what warriors do, and etc. Classes are unique for a reason… I thought that wasn’t a serious question.

By the way, in that video, the thieves on the opposing side are TERRIBLE. That’s proof that even thieves don’t know their classes well enough to counter. If you want, I can take some time out of my week and compile a video of how my thief destroys other thieves and that type of gameplay showed in that video is only possible against players who are “mindless”, or there was a serious case of culling. By the way, I find it really sad that that zerg didn’t even attempt to target the thief… But as soon as they were coordinated and hit him, he goes down pretty quickly. Initially, they just went “mehhh, whatever”. Not all zergs are that lenient on an attacking thief… lol.

And what exactly can they do can they take on a whole zerg? the thieves cant find each other simple as that.btw they did try targeting you cant target someone who goes invis every second i know i try to and the times he does go down is when he screwed up his stealth rotation after about 2 minutes of carnage. But I Did find the answer to our problems it even goes along the lines of what your saying tso i totally agree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

‘take on a whole zerg’ roflmao
as soon as those zerglings started actively hunting him he died; he picked out seperate targets and ‘hid in the crowd’ using the vegetable zerg members as C+D sheep (im almost positive some of the zerg players must have been asleep in that video; even if the thief is culled its very hard to miss those number popping up over your character)

alright so they all suck that whole zerg sucked congrats you win your case no concrete evidence but thats how kids want to win debates these days oh i found more proof ^^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVFg2iWFKmw
this is exactly what it looks like on my warrior usually its a D/D heartseeker tho even the video uploader said so “When the thief stealths, he is able to get off 4 full shots off before even starting to become visible and isn’t fully rendered until shot 5 or 6. His dagger set was on CD from weapon swap but what usually happens is a series of heartseekers from stealth after c/d+bs which makes the.”

the ‘stealth rendering bug’ issue seems stupid; the first shot missed, the second was blocked (somehow… no idea how) the third was evaded
please; if you’re complaining about a class have the decency to learn how it works; stealth doesnt break unless it does damage

how about dodging that heartseeker spam and making them waste initiative (you… do know how that works right?)

-also; the evidence was in the video that someone posted

Are you trying to bring up old debates that i have shot down? im not rewriting my statements go look for the post about intiiative and making them waste it then reply im not wasting my time with old arguments

Shrilly.7184:

Daecollo.9578:

Sirendor.1394:

I ocassionally roll thief in WvW myself, using S/D & SB instead of the common used D/D combination. I gotta say, those using HS D/D aren’t worth the name “Thief”, because they ruin the entire profession’s name. I don’t use the stealth spam neither, so don’t say that EVERY thief is a kitten, although a lot of them are.

I suggest they counter the HS spamming by higher cost of initiative and fix the culling.
I have trouble with those HS/BS thieves myself in WvW, unless you make them waste all their initiative then hunt them down while they are useless.
HS + stealth spam thieves are not the way thieves should ever work.

Heartseeker Spam is one of the easiest things to avoid in PvP, I suggest you learn ways around it (there are several, I won’t bother explaining, because its all over the Thief Gameplay thread.)

The closest i can get is dodge and a block from shield (which i do not use) and if i did all he would have to do is go stealth and get more initiative

So use a shield? Warrior is very susceptible to being bursted down due to no retreat skill or good sorce of vigor/endurance gain so knowing that, in spvp, I always run a shield. You should be building the defences you are missing instead of expecting to brush off 12k dmg. If someone wants to build 100% offensive skills (excluding healing skill) thats fine but don’t get upset when a good thief comes by and eats you for breakfast. (Stun breaks help to, as for hs just cc…)

Unfortunately they designed the thief improperly and culling is making it worse. Any clase with stealth should have no means of increasing their speed (stealth is your defensive measure, runnign away froma fight should not be an option, stealthing and losing your pursuer should be, not flat out running). Due to culling, their initiative based stealth skills need the cost increased (8 initiative should do nicely to prevent spam of it, don’t want this touched? demand they fix culling so it is impossible to exploit).

Then there is another problem of the fact that they test their changes on a private server, not a public one. You don’t experience culling when you have a hundred employees on a private server on the level we experience when a wvw map is near full.

Sure, thieves are working fine in sPvP…there is no room to run away and no culling. In WvW there is room to run (which every thief does the moment you interupt them once) and culling causes them to have free stealth.

Honestly the best change they can do is that if anyone stealths, they cannot stealth again for 20 seconds. Make thieves use stealth more tactically rather than spamming it as most of them do now.

Yes I have a thief, P/P and SB, don’t need stealth to win my battles. People truly facepalm when they die to a thief that doesn’t touch or have a single stealth skill on their bar.

Any thief that needs stealth, or uses stealth, is using a crutch. You aren’t good at the class if you rely on a broken mechanic…any thief that doesn’t admit that stealth is broken right now is just trying to keep their ability to grief those hwo literally cannot see them due to culling. Any thief saying “well aoe spam” is also just an idiot, ANet is nerfing aoe across the board.

Runiir.6425:

Unfortunately they designed the thief improperly and culling is making it worse. Any clase with stealth should have no means of increasing their speed (stealth is your defensive measure, runnign away froma fight should not be an option, stealthing and losing your pursuer should be, not flat out running). Due to culling, their initiative based stealth skills need the cost increased (8 initiative should do nicely to prevent spam of it, don’t want this touched? demand they fix culling so it is impossible to exploit).

Then there is another problem of the fact that they test their changes on a private server, not a public one. You don’t experience culling when you have a hundred employees on a private server on the level we experience when a wvw map is near full.

Sure, thieves are working fine in sPvP…there is no room to run away and no culling. In WvW there is room to run (which every thief does the moment you interupt them once) and culling causes them to have free stealth.

Honestly the best change they can do is that if anyone stealths, they cannot stealth again for 20 seconds. Make thieves use stealth more tactically rather than spamming it as most of them do now.

Yes I have a thief, P/P and SB, don’t need stealth to win my battles. People truly facepalm when they die to a thief that doesn’t touch or have a single stealth skill on their bar.

Any thief that needs stealth, or uses stealth, is using a crutch. You aren’t good at the class if you rely on a broken mechanic…any thief that doesn’t admit that stealth is broken right now is just trying to keep their ability to grief those hwo literally cannot see them due to culling. Any thief saying “well aoe spam” is also just an idiot, ANet is nerfing aoe across the board.

Thanks for the input friend.

Balance Issues:

There is no true counter for stealth.

To balance stealth some of the following should happen…
-Damaging a stealth player should still reveal the damage numbers where the stealth player is positioned/running/standing..
-If a stealth player attacks another player, and that player blocks/evades the attack. The stealth player should be revealed instantly.
-stealth players should no longer “fade” in. once you are no longer stealthed. a black smoke should appear as you reappear.
-If you have a stealth player targeted before he enters stealth, that target should remain when he unstealths.

and yes, i play a thief, and it’s a broken broken class mechanic.

ArenaNet doesn’t want to hear this. Moderator’s delete thief threads or move them to the linksville section (rofl wut!?)

This thread was in the WvW section:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/links/Thieves-rule-W3/page/6#post1485494

The Shortbow’s second slot abilities detonate needs to trigger the Combo Finisher: Blast as well. I feel like trying to use my abilities skillfully actually hinders performance — not good.

Apart from that, Pistol/Pistol needs a look. The melee specs have the niche of large damage while evading attacks, and dazes / stealth escapes. The shortbow basically has a backwards dodge with an initiative cost and a high-cost spammable shadowstep, coupled with 3 different combo categories and loads of AoE damage. Pistol/Pistol needs a niche to feel viable. It seems like it should be large single target damage with the safety of range, but it doesn’t really provide the mobility necessary, nor the raw damage output, to keep up with what other weapon combos are offering. Perhaps allow us to dodge while unloading, and then reduce auto-attack damage by 45% but increase the fire rate of the pistols by 100% (effectively halving the damage and doubling the attack speed). An animation could be added that alternates each pistol you fire, allowing you to really feel like you’re duel-weilding pistols.

Just some of what i’d like to see.

SoPP.7034:

ArenaNet doesn’t want to hear this. Moderator’s delete thief threads or move them to the linksville section (rofl wut!?)

This thread was in the WvW section:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/links/Thieves-rule-W3/page/6#post1485494

Thank you for the link to that thread allows me to post this…so now there is no more fighting it guys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlWzXy1ZQVI

Thought i would share this tid bit also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHOpACoX4ic&feature=youtu.be

It’s really sad. Perma stealth is made able by the trait for initiative gain during stealth using d/p with skill 5 (black powder) and skill 2 (heart seeker) this allows constant backstabbing and perma stealth while heartseeker can damage the enemy while putting you in stealth. When you add regen during stealth and Condi remove every three seconds from other traits its way op. Literally they can never die and will kill you if you can. Plz fix Anet.

(I have posted this before on another complain about perma stealth in the spvp category).

Agree with you.

They need to tone down the following traits.

Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

I didn’t touch preparedness as it gives us roughly 20-25% more resources which is in line with cool down decrease that other classes have.

Initiative allows use to spam abilities. We pick and chose which attack to use within the constraint of the overall init pool. When we have too much of it or the init regen is out of control, it is unbalance. When other classes can only achieves 20-25% reduction in CD, it think it is safe to say a 50-75% recharge rate on init is too much. We shouldn’t be able to have our cake and eat it too…

Kyrion.2749:

Actually, in certain situations, I drop shadow refuges AWAY from me just to draw enemy fire.

I cloak with C&D, drop the SR into empty zone, run away & extend my stealth with HiS, and if able, teleport away with Shadow Step… When I look back, I see Mesmers, Warriors, Eles and Guardians literally blowing all their skills on the fake refuge… My only thought is: ‘Thanks God I’m not there’.

holy crap thats a good escape plan, trying this

So, yes yu right. That the reason why there is much more “stealth kittenolololoing” thief last time. Players usually read forum, l2p how they can win in “easy mode” and use this in game. Thats why there are class balancing pathes in all mmo. If someting go to be Op and to many pll use it, there is a nerf to prewent “exploiting” it. Ofc all pll who use that or other “Op” build will tell- no this is not op, its good how it work now- becose they will continue use it.
hm.. i have try all classes on 2 acounts.. yes i have thief to.. and it look a little op like now ( its really funny to see how 10 pll try get yu, and yu still can kill in few seconds those who are in back side of “main” group -its not because of my skill , not because “i am the best”, only “class mechanic” :P )
So i think there will come nerf, now or in the future.. we will se,
But for now lets have fun to play this class like it works now

Honestly, I may have to agree with you on the black powder heartseeker portion. Unlike CnD which is easily dodgeable, Black powder has no hard counter. There is nothing to dodge, and in melee range you will be blinded, meaning that they can pop out of stealth using backstab, immediately place a black powder and every shot you take will miss, long enough for revealed to go away. I’m usually anti thief nerf-or anti any class nerf for whatever. I think stealth is fine. I think thief is fine. I do not think black powder heartseeker is fine.

I’d also like to note that I’m talking about the combat aspect of it only. If a thief is using it to perma stealth to hide in a keep, standing in the black powder will give him revealed or will down his stealth time. There is no true perma stealth with this build if the enemy knows what he is doing.

Thomas Winkworth 4 days ago
you can get infinite stealth other ways anyways?
Reply ·

Richard Tiongson 3 days ago
Ty for bringing this up, this statement is very true, the one way I know is, dagger/pistol, and you could probably even use pistol oh w/ shortbow to pull off the same thing. Don’t feel like going into detail but,? thieves have always been capable of infinite stealth if speced in certain areas.
Reply · in reply to Thomas Winkworth

That is directly from the thief that posted the video of him taking the tower alone

Thieves are OP…my 2 cents

Everytime I face a thief, I think:

Is the damage to high?

Maybe. The damage alone seems fine to me, but taking all other abilities into account it seems to high. But what I realy hate is the fact, how easy a thief can achieve high damage. Just spam one ability without thinking about cooldowns. Or do moderate damage with a gap closer (hs) is a no brainer.

Is the mobility to high?

Slighly. Yes thief is squishy and needs abilites to get away, but the mobility with shortbow is not funny anymore. If the mobility would be limited on a horizontal plane it would be fine, but jumping up walls, ledges is lame.

Is the stealth ok?

Absolutely not. Yes thief is an assasin and needs stealth to set up his ambush. This is fine for me. But the fact that a thief can pop stealth almost everytime he wants is just stupid. Stealth is not a tactical tool anymore, but a spamable ability. Coupled with the fact, that thieves can heal and drop condition while in stealth is op. And to all thief players out there who think this is perfectly fine: Ask your self, what fun it is to play against a class you cannot see most of the time. I guess if other classes could do this you would whine a lot on the forums. I really can’t remember such a stupid implementation of stealth in any mmorpg game I played ( and I played alot, starting with DAOC beta). For me thief is the most stupid class design in the game.

testpig.5018:

Balance Issues:

There is no true counter for stealth.

To balance stealth some of the following should happen…
-Damaging a stealth player should still reveal the damage numbers where the stealth player is positioned/running/standing..
-If a stealth player attacks another player, and that player blocks/evades the attack. The stealth player should be revealed instantly.
-stealth players should no longer “fade” in. once you are no longer stealthed. a black smoke should appear as you reappear.
-If you have a stealth player targeted before he enters stealth, that target should remain when he unstealths.

and yes, i play a thief, and it’s a broken broken class mechanic.

I love the damage numbers idea if it lands!

Despina.6970:

Everytime I face a thief, I think:

Is the damage to high?

Maybe. The damage alone seems fine to me, but taking all other abilities into account it seems to high. But what I realy hate is the fact, how easy a thief can achieve high damage. Just spam one ability without thinking about cooldowns. Or do moderate damage with a gap closer (hs) is a no brainer.

Is the mobility to high?

Slighly. Yes thief is squishy and needs abilites to get away, but the mobility with shortbow is not funny anymore. If the mobility would be limited on a horizontal plane it would be fine, but jumping up walls, ledges is lame.

Is the stealth ok?

Absolutely not. Yes thief is an assasin and needs stealth to set up his ambush. This is fine for me. But the fact that a thief can pop stealth almost everytime he wants is just stupid. Stealth is not a tactical tool anymore, but a spamable ability. Coupled with the fact, that thieves can heal and drop condition while in stealth is op. And to all thief players out there who think this is perfectly fine: Ask your self, what fun it is to play against a class you cannot see most of the time. I guess if other classes could do this you would whine a lot on the forums. I really can’t remember such a stupid implementation of stealth in any mmorpg game I played ( and I played alot, starting with DAOC beta). For me thief is the most stupid class design in the game.

Couldnt say it better myself

and another…is there anything else the thief side can say?

Feed back …well against my better judgement….could we just make a totally different rule set for wvw/pvp entirely to avoid messing with pve? Maybe this not possible.

But, the two areas of play seem totally irreconcilable.

I play only pve, just as others play only pvp. The desire for nerfs will never stop until the profession is done ( at least as far as pve goes). I have seen it another game.

Seriously, I want everyone to have fun, it is a game.

In pve the thief probably needs some help. I don’t come here and complain about it, but seeing all this pvp hostility…it recalls the other game I mentioned, and I hate to see such animosity among players. Not to mention the concern that the thief will just be gimped to the point it is no fun to play in pve.

I may be incorrect, but I have read ( I think) that wvw uses the same ruleset as pve, I suppose because there are pve elements in with the pvp. As I mentioned, I play only pve, mostly solo or with a friend. So, my focus is really on pve things and maybe this is wrong.

Could pve actually have a totally seperate ruleset? Different than wvw/spvp etc?

I seriously doubt that the desire for nerfs will ever stop, nothing will satisfy those who want nerfs. I have seen it; I watched professions/classes destroyed..and still, the demand for nerfs kept coming. Despite the nerfs they got, which were even more than asked for, the demands kept coming. And It seems to be the way things go when there are pvp complaints.

I love the playstyle of thief even though it is weak in pve. I just live with it, and hope for some favorable adjustments one day.

But if the demands for nerfs win out, thief will be done in pve. I need every tool/skill/ability the thief has to survive. It is a challenge, it is high risk. I have learned to deal wth it and it is rewarding. However, it won’t take much at all to make it just a frustating waste of time instead instead of a challenge. My other toons are a breeze by comparison, some even boring and and rarely played actually.

I really don’t want see the thief made into something that is essentially unplayable in pve. Of my friends I play with, only 1 likes playing a thief, the others tried and hated it…dying so often. It is just not for them. They do fine on thier other toons.

My feedback would be a request , probably not possible sadly, to seperate all pvp related activity rulesets from pve. PVP players will never be happy until the thief is broken ( at least in pve, I will not comment on pvp). I have seen it before.

The two areas of play seem totally irreconcilable.

I mean no offense to anyone here, please do not feel some need to justify your desired nerfs. I cannot stand the animosity generated by all this. I am personally content to let the devs decide…so long as pve is left alone at least.

Please, if you are the type to relish the chance to tell me how awful a player I am if I see weaknesses in the thief for pve….just drop it. I am not here to criticize those who want nerfs or buffs. I am genuinely hoping for some way to at least keep the thief in pve from being torn up in the endless pvp nightmare.

Despina.6970:

Ask your self, what fun it is to play against a class you cannot see most of the time. I guess if other classes could do this you would whine a lot on the forums.

I don’t think so. Mostly none thief players are complaining about thieves. My main character is a thief and I don’t have not that much trouble to fight against them in hot join PvP or WvWvW.

Just get familiar with the thief – it helps to know your opponent and his dirty tricks.

Runiir.6425:

Unfortunately they designed the thief improperly and culling is making it worse. Any clase with stealth should have no means of increasing their speed (stealth is your defensive measure, runnign away froma fight should not be an option, stealthing and losing your pursuer should be, not flat out running). Due to culling, their initiative based stealth skills need the cost increased (8 initiative should do nicely to prevent spam of it, don’t want this touched? demand they fix culling so it is impossible to exploit).

Then there is another problem of the fact that they test their changes on a private server, not a public one. You don’t experience culling when you have a hundred employees on a private server on the level we experience when a wvw map is near full.

Sure, thieves are working fine in sPvP…there is no room to run away and no culling. In WvW there is room to run (which every thief does the moment you interupt them once) and culling causes them to have free stealth.

Honestly the best change they can do is that if anyone stealths, they cannot stealth again for 20 seconds. Make thieves use stealth more tactically rather than spamming it as most of them do now.

Yes I have a thief, P/P and SB, don’t need stealth to win my battles. People truly facepalm when they die to a thief that doesn’t touch or have a single stealth skill on their bar.

Any thief that needs stealth, or uses stealth, is using a crutch. You aren’t good at the class if you rely on a broken mechanic…any thief that doesn’t admit that stealth is broken right now is just trying to keep their ability to grief those hwo literally cannot see them due to culling. Any thief saying “well aoe spam” is also just an idiot, ANet is nerfing aoe across the board.

20 seconds is really extreme. It’d ruin Sword/Dagger and Pistol/Dagger. Both are builds that only work because of access to stealth. Sword/Dagger can’t put up a blind field like Sword/Pistol and doesn’t have access to on demand dazes without stealth, and Flanking Strike’s too slow and inaccurate to make a viable defensive skill. Pistol/Dagger also doesn’t have blind fields and isn’t worth using to without Sneak Attack.

The reason P/P and Sb work without stealth is they’re designed to work without stealth. Some sets aren’t.