Guild Wars 2

I understand that MF is all about exploring, trying new combinations but this situation with the endless tonics actually discourages players to do just that.

The pioneer players are brave enough to use their hard earned and most of the cases extremely valuable materials to try and discover new recipes, but how encouraged would they be if what is given back to them goes more along the lines of junk?

When the ascended gear came out, people wasted alot of materials and didn’t get the items they would have preferred, that was okay because the materials wasted was completely regather-able and the item could still be used with advanced stats.

What is happening here with the endless tonics is that people are using materials that can’t be gathered again in perhaps a very long time, which at the same time costed a hefty sum, all to yield something very subpar in comparison.

Is this how where the MF is heading? I sure hope not because I can’t imagine the brave people who wasted stacks of orichalcum, globs, mystic coins and other expensive materials to discover all those new amazing weapon skin recipes wanting to risk sometimes getting maybe a random rare or exotic back, all the while there ‘being a possibility’ that the same recipe could’ve given someone else a new unique skin.

Took me approx 3500-3800 to get the current 4 tonics. 1 more to go, tomorrow!
The rate is significantly lower than 1/3. My numbers mean every 17 or 18 tries I got one tonic!

I am not really disappointed though – many people are luckier, but I am just happy to have them.

I think I’ve used up a good 7 gold trying to get these tonics, don’t mean to be negative but this is a great way to sour Wintersday for some people.

there is nothing wrong with the drop rate of the tonics what is annoying is combinig all 4 and ending up with the endless gollem which in my oppinion looks worst

Hello, i just spend alot of gold and my one in a life time frames, crafting endless toy ventari tonic, endless princess doll tonic, endless toy soldier tonic,endless plush griffon tonic.. and i was told by combine these in mystic forge you would get the exotic endless toy maker tonic…. but it gave me the endless toy golem tonic insteed, there by i waste my one in life time tonics, is there anything i can do about this or revers the process ?

hope someone from arena net see this problem

boev.2896:

Hello, i just spend alot of gold and my one in a life time frames, crafting endless toy ventari tonic, endless princess doll tonic, endless toy soldier tonic,endless plush griffon tonic.. and i was told by combine these in mystic forge you would get the exotic endless toy maker tonic…. but it gave me the endless toy golem tonic insteed, there by i waste my one in life time tonics, is there anything i can do about this or revers the process ?

hope someone from arena net see this problem

I got the same ‘problem’ too but I think there is nothing we can do about it, we have to suck it up :/

I wish ArenaNet could remove my Endless Golem Tonic and replace it with the 4 others I lost, but I don’t think ArenaNet is that kind of company who does that since nothing really disappeared for us, we just gambled with the Mystic Forge.

Ouch, that has to hurt. But I doubt this is a problem Anet needs to know about. For all we know, it is working as intended.

JackBeShippin.4159:

I see that they go together in the mystic forge the endless tonics, and read on forums that it might seem very possible you get an endless toymakers tonic from it.

So I get a little hasty throw em into the forge and boom, I get a robot endless tonic, account bound one even (unless im mistaken, its at least account bound now).

So now I have the one tonic I dont care for or want.

That is completely your fault.

Nowhere did any dev state that if you try combining them then you will get the endless toymakers tonic. You took a risk based on speculation and it came up as being wrong. That is your fault, not Anets.

It wasn’t Anet that slapped you in the face, it was yourself.

AcidicVision.5498:

JackBeShippin.4159:

…and read on forums that it might seem very possible you get an endless toymakers tonic from it. So I get a little hasty throw em into the forge and boom, I get a robot endless tonic…
-snip-
…and now this whole debacle with the tonics? It’s just the last straw for me.

My favorite part in there is where you admit to reading it from strangers on the internet, understand getting the toy-maker tonic is only a possibility, and own up to your own impatience…

And then blame ArenaNet that things didn’t go your way.

I dont necessairly wish to shift blame or something.
But honestly, without us doing it and regretting it, you wouldnt know not to do it now… So im not sure why you are hating on me/the people who went ahead and try it.

Also I believe this is an MMO, This implies a social aspect, and social behaviour should be encouraged. (social behaviour as in testing recipes and sharing them with each other). We can even see that a developper posted well done when someone posted the recipes for some wintersday items in a different thread. So arenanet seems to be aware of this and shows that they encourage social behavior/testing and sharing recipes online/ and so on. Im simply trying to point out that for a certain part of people this really made wintersday very sour and furthermore discourages social behaviour like testing recipes and sharing them. How many of the people that did this, will in the future still put things in the forge and share it with you? Or will they all become lurkers on forums and wait for others to test things? What happened here encouraged anti-social behaviour in a huge manner, and because of those reasons im very sceptical to believe that arenanet intended it this way. Given that its an mmo and that usually social behaviour is encouraged by the developpers.

Furthermore, alot of people are unhappy right now, I was absolutely loving the event, it was the best one yet, and really made me feel superhappy, everything was great, I wasnt too happy with the mini’s being luck bound now instead of just buy them but aside from that I felt like I was having a great time. Now (and I can only speak for myself here) Im literally disgusted and have a sour taste in my mouth when I think of wintersday and guild wars 2 in general. I dont think arenanet wants their customers to feel like this either….

Obviously it is working as intended. Why would they have two ways of getting the endless tonic, especially one that’s achieved so easily. It seems common sense that these would only drop from the actual gift boxes.

Jrunyon.3012:

JackBeShippin.4159:

I see that they go together in the mystic forge the endless tonics, and read on forums that it might seem very possible you get an endless toymakers tonic from it.

So I get a little hasty throw em into the forge and boom, I get a robot endless tonic, account bound one even (unless im mistaken, its at least account bound now).

So now I have the one tonic I dont care for or want.

That is completely your fault.

Nowhere did any dev state that if you try combining them then you will get the endless toymakers tonic. You took a risk based on speculation and it came up as being wrong. That is your fault, not Anets.

It wasn’t Anet that slapped you in the face, it was yourself.

And I bet you wouldn’t be saying that if you were the pioneer trying it and seeing what happens. With something like this, Anet really should have said something about it. Their somewhat lack of communication about the forge recipes/RNGs each event keeps coming back to bite them. I doubt there would be as much backlash if people knew there was only a chance to get the Toymaker tonic.

IMHO, whoever thought RNG on these specific things needs to stop having power to make decisions. It only takes one small thing to ruin a whole experience. These tonics don’t even effect any competitive aspect of the game. Let people have them easily without praying to the RNG gods.

Except it has been gotten from this albeit at a very low chance

skullmount.1758:

Jrunyon.3012:

JackBeShippin.4159:

I see that they go together in the mystic forge the endless tonics, and read on forums that it might seem very possible you get an endless toymakers tonic from it.

So I get a little hasty throw em into the forge and boom, I get a robot endless tonic, account bound one even (unless im mistaken, its at least account bound now).

So now I have the one tonic I dont care for or want.

That is completely your fault.

Nowhere did any dev state that if you try combining them then you will get the endless toymakers tonic. You took a risk based on speculation and it came up as being wrong. That is your fault, not Anets.

It wasn’t Anet that slapped you in the face, it was yourself.

And I bet you wouldn’t be saying that if you were the pioneer trying it and seeing what happens. With something like this, Anet really should have said something about it. Their somewhat lack of communication about the forge recipes/RNGs each event keeps coming back to bite them. I doubt there would be as much backlash if people knew there was only a chance to get the Toymaker tonic.

As I said in another thread, it seems kind of obvious to me that the toymaker tonic would only drop in the gift boxes as a random chance. Why would they make an item like that that a lot of people want into a guaranteed recipe? Especially one thats so easy to complete.

Throwing all 4 tonics in ruined Wintersday for me. All i was hoping for was something unique or cool to come out of it.

So, you had something you wanted, but decided to risk it in a mystery recipe when you had no idea about what the outcome could be? And you have the gall to say it’s an insult from ArenaNet? Come on; get a bit of class and maybe think things through the next time you decide to gamble away something that you already enjoy.

Guess what? Putting four Dusks into the forge would just spit out another random exotic greatsword. This is no different. Again, try researching how the forge recipes tend to work before risking something on an unknown.

Jrunyon, I appreciate and respect your point of view, I have some more thoughts to add on it, and Im going to crosspost again, unfortunately I wont be getting into a too big discussion here because im already active in other topics and I dont want to spam the forums or side track em so much and just copy paste my posts all over every tonic related tonic. That is obvioulsy not my intention. However I did feel like it was mandatory to reply to you.

JackBeShippin.4159:

I dont necessairly wish to shift blame or something.
But honestly, without us doing it and regretting it, you wouldnt know not to do it now… So im not sure why you are hating on me/the people who went ahead and try it.

Also I believe this is an MMO, This implies a social aspect, and social behaviour should be encouraged. (social behaviour as in testing recipes and sharing them with each other). We can even see that a developper posted well done when someone posted the recipes for some wintersday items in a different thread. So arenanet seems to be aware of this and shows that they encourage social behavior/testing and sharing recipes online/ and so on. Im simply trying to point out that for a certain part of people this really made wintersday very sour and furthermore discourages social behaviour like testing recipes and sharing them. How many of the people that did this, will in the future still put things in the forge and share it with you? Or will they all become lurkers on forums and wait for others to test things? What happened here encouraged anti-social behaviour in a huge manner, and because of those reasons im very sceptical to believe that arenanet intended it this way. Given that its an mmo and that usually social behaviour is encouraged by the developpers.

Furthermore, alot of people are unhappy right now, I was absolutely loving the event, it was the best one yet, and really made me feel superhappy, everything was great, I wasnt too happy with the mini’s being luck bound now instead of just buy them but aside from that I felt like I was having a great time. Now (and I can only speak for myself here) Im literally disgusted and have a sour taste in my mouth when I think of wintersday and guild wars 2 in general. I dont think arenanet wants their customers to feel like this either….

I think we need to remind them of last month where they needed to defend their corporate integrity in front of the public.

Im really unhappy too, waisted tons of gold and my 4 frames, and for a tonic i wont even wanna use, i really hope arena net gives some of the tonics back ( or all 4 ) to those who done this,

really felt disapointed was expecting the toymaker tonic for this,

(my tonics, ventari , toy soldier, princess , plush griffon )

PLEASE HELP US ARENA NET !

Stormleaf.1769:

So, you had something you wanted, but decided to risk it in a mystery recipe when you had no idea about what the outcome could be? And you have the gall to say it’s an insult from ArenaNet? Come on; get a bit of class and maybe think things through the next time you decide to gamble away something that you already enjoy.

Guess what? Putting four Dusks into the forge would just spit out another random exotic greatsword. This is no different. Again, try researching how the forge recipes tend to work before risking something on an unknown.

Quote me where I said it was an insult from ArenaNet.

I know I was gambling, and I know there’s nothing I can do about it but ask if ArenaNet could add the frames so I can gamble the Endless Tonics back.

i almost throw everything there. good thing i decide to check forum 1st. thank you for the warning.

Farzo.8410:

Stormleaf.1769:

So, you had something you wanted, but decided to risk it in a mystery recipe when you had no idea about what the outcome could be? And you have the gall to say it’s an insult from ArenaNet? Come on; get a bit of class and maybe think things through the next time you decide to gamble away something that you already enjoy.

Guess what? Putting four Dusks into the forge would just spit out another random exotic greatsword. This is no different. Again, try researching how the forge recipes tend to work before risking something on an unknown.

Quote me where I said it was an insult from ArenaNet.

I know I was gambling, and I know there’s nothing I can do about it but ask if ArenaNet could add the frames so I can gamble the Endless Tonics back.

Sorry, I was referring to the person who called it a “slap in the face” (and everyone else who considers it a failing on ArenaNet’s part other than their own). Meant to quote.

Same thing happened to me, put in 4 tonics and got the endless golem tonic. As with all MF recipes, you have the option to get out and farm the materials and try again. That is the problem with the endless toy tonics recipe, you only ever get the frames once (as far as I know) and cannot acquire them again to get back the tonics you lost or to try for the endless toy tonic again.

Unless of course the minis can be used to make the tonic?…

Kaderin.7584:

Is this how where the MF is heading? I sure hope not because I can’t imagine the brave people who wasted stacks of orichalcum, globs, mystic coins and other expensive materials to discover all those new amazing weapon skin recipes wanting to risk sometimes getting maybe a random rare or exotic back, all the while there ‘being a possibility’ that the same recipe could’ve given someone else a new unique skin.

Are you new to the game? This is the way the MF has always worked.

The issue is that the material is NOT re-gatherable (as far as we know), unlike everything else used in the MF.

Threw in 4 tonics and got the endless golem. Sad times.

krazzyr.4078:

The issue is that the material is NOT re-gatherable (as far as we know), unlike everything else used in the MF.

Which means people should have been especially careful when throwing it all away on a completely unknown recipe. A shame they weren’t.

Jrunyon.3012:

Kaderin.7584:

Is this how where the MF is heading? I sure hope not because I can’t imagine the brave people who wasted stacks of orichalcum, globs, mystic coins and other expensive materials to discover all those new amazing weapon skin recipes wanting to risk sometimes getting maybe a random rare or exotic back, all the while there ‘being a possibility’ that the same recipe could’ve given someone else a new unique skin.

Are you new to the game? This is the way the MF has always worked.

And what recipes are you referring to? Because to make tier materials there is no ‘you might or might not get them’ and when you waste 500 +orichalcum, ectos, mystic coins for a unique exotic weapon skin there is no ‘you might get some orichalcum back and no weapon’

So the question is, are you new to this game?

Kaderin.7584:

Jrunyon.3012:

Kaderin.7584:

Is this how where the MF is heading? I sure hope not because I can’t imagine the brave people who wasted stacks of orichalcum, globs, mystic coins and other expensive materials to discover all those new amazing weapon skin recipes wanting to risk sometimes getting maybe a random rare or exotic back, all the while there ‘being a possibility’ that the same recipe could’ve given someone else a new unique skin.

Are you new to the game? This is the way the MF has always worked.

And what recipes are you referring to? Because to make tier materials there is no ‘you might or might not get them’ and when you waste 500 +orichalcum, ectos, mystic coins for a unique exotic weapon skin there is no ‘you might get some orichalcum back and no weapon’

So the question is, are you knew to this game?

Four Dusks into the forge. What do you get? Another random exotic greatsword. Same concept here. Research the forge before throwing something you care about away on an unknown.

Stormleaf.1769:

krazzyr.4078:

The issue is that the material is NOT re-gatherable (as far as we know), unlike everything else used in the MF.

Which means people should have been especially careful when throwing it all away on a completely unknown recipe. A shame they weren’t.

And how do you propose someone be “especially careful” when the recipe involves a material that cannot be gathered again? Either way someone has to go “first” to figure out what what you might get and others have to go after to confirm whether the initial recipe is 100% or not.

Stormleaf.1769:

Kaderin.7584:

Jrunyon.3012:

Kaderin.7584:

Is this how where the MF is heading? I sure hope not because I can’t imagine the brave people who wasted stacks of orichalcum, globs, mystic coins and other expensive materials to discover all those new amazing weapon skin recipes wanting to risk sometimes getting maybe a random rare or exotic back, all the while there ‘being a possibility’ that the same recipe could’ve given someone else a new unique skin.

Are you new to the game? This is the way the MF has always worked.

And what recipes are you referring to? Because to make tier materials there is no ‘you might or might not get them’ and when you waste 500 +orichalcum, ectos, mystic coins for a unique exotic weapon skin there is no ‘you might get some orichalcum back and no weapon’

So the question is, are you knew to this game?

Four Dusks into the forge. What do you get? Another random exotic greatsword. Same concept here. Research the forge before throwing something you care about away on an unknown.

Maybe you misunderstand, you CAN get 4 more dusks. You CANNOT get another toy frame to remake the tonics (at this point in time). That is issue I believe people (and myself) have with the recipe.

Kaderin.7584:

Jrunyon.3012:

Kaderin.7584:

Is this how where the MF is heading? I sure hope not because I can’t imagine the brave people who wasted stacks of orichalcum, globs, mystic coins and other expensive materials to discover all those new amazing weapon skin recipes wanting to risk sometimes getting maybe a random rare or exotic back, all the while there ‘being a possibility’ that the same recipe could’ve given someone else a new unique skin.

Are you new to the game? This is the way the MF has always worked.

And what recipes are you referring to? Because to make tier materials there is no ‘you might or might not get them’ and when you waste 500 +orichalcum, ectos, mystic coins for a unique exotic weapon skin there is no ‘you might get some orichalcum back and no weapon’

So the question is, are you new to this game?

How about precursors? How many people wasted hundreds of gold on those? Plenty.

And this is completely different because a this isnt a recipe that is 100%. You took the chance and I do hope that all affected will have an opportunity to get their frames back but honestly, people blaming Anet for their own actions are very immature.

Stormleaf.1769:

Kaderin.7584:

Jrunyon.3012:

Kaderin.7584:

Is this how where the MF is heading? I sure hope not because I can’t imagine the brave people who wasted stacks of orichalcum, globs, mystic coins and other expensive materials to discover all those new amazing weapon skin recipes wanting to risk sometimes getting maybe a random rare or exotic back, all the while there ‘being a possibility’ that the same recipe could’ve given someone else a new unique skin.

Are you new to the game? This is the way the MF has always worked.

And what recipes are you referring to? Because to make tier materials there is no ‘you might or might not get them’ and when you waste 500 +orichalcum, ectos, mystic coins for a unique exotic weapon skin there is no ‘you might get some orichalcum back and no weapon’

So the question is, are you knew to this game?

Four Dusks into the forge. What do you get? Another random exotic greatsword. Same concept here. Research the forge before throwing something you care about away on an unknown.

While the dusks are precursors they are still considered random exotics, evidenced by their equal chance to drop out of the MF on any combine, so that is no example at all.

Special event items specially shouldn’t be subject to such abject randomness, it does not encourage anyone to try this, so whenever someone say ‘do more research before doing it’ doesn’t really work because anet wants people to try to discover but the odds to make it worthwhile in the tonics case isn’t worth it

krazzyr.4078:

Stormleaf.1769:

krazzyr.4078:

The issue is that the material is NOT re-gatherable (as far as we know), unlike everything else used in the MF.

Which means people should have been especially careful when throwing it all away on a completely unknown recipe. A shame they weren’t.

And how do you propose someone be “especially careful” when the recipe involves a material that cannot be gather again? Either way someone has to go “first” to figure out what what you might get and others have to go after to confirm whether the initial recipe is 100% or not.

Try actually thinking before you do it.

“Hey, I know this recipe is an unknown and I might not get something I want. I also know I used my one and only frame on each of these tonics. Am I really willing to give up these tonics, considering I might not like the end result?”

All you need to do is think about the cost vs. the benefit. If the reward isn’t good enough, then don’t take the risk. Just throwing it all away when you were more than capable of making an informed, thoughtful decision and then demanding that ArenaNet coddle you and give you more frames because you don’t like the end result is beyond pitiful.

You KNEW you only had one frame. WHY would you risk it if you also knew you liked the tonics too much to live without them? This is entirely your own fault, people. Get some class.

Jrunyon.3012:

Kaderin.7584:

Jrunyon.3012:

Kaderin.7584:

Is this how where the MF is heading? I sure hope not because I can’t imagine the brave people who wasted stacks of orichalcum, globs, mystic coins and other expensive materials to discover all those new amazing weapon skin recipes wanting to risk sometimes getting maybe a random rare or exotic back, all the while there ‘being a possibility’ that the same recipe could’ve given someone else a new unique skin.

Are you new to the game? This is the way the MF has always worked.

And what recipes are you referring to? Because to make tier materials there is no ‘you might or might not get them’ and when you waste 500 +orichalcum, ectos, mystic coins for a unique exotic weapon skin there is no ‘you might get some orichalcum back and no weapon’

So the question is, are you new to this game?

How about precursors? How many people wasted hundreds of gold on those? Plenty.

And this is completely different because a this isnt a recipe that is 100%. You took the chance and I do hope that all affected will have an opportunity to get their frames back but honestly, people blaming Anet for their own actions are very immature.

Precursors are not a good example because the whole debate about legendaries and whats worth to make it with or not does not come in here, if you throw in random exotics and get one exotic back, thats lame but you can always do it again if you choose to.

The problem in this is that the chance to make the endless toymaker you don’t hyave any retry unlike the individual endless tonics, and I think that to use 4 items that can’t be remade on a chance is a bad precedence for more recipes like this to come, is this worth the try? I very much doubt so and I would prefer to not see more recipes like this in the future, if people just accept this it will never change.

I believe it was mentioned that you can run the dungeons again and get another frame.. that may be wrong though I have not tried it. Personally I would rather have the tonic that the mini so i was more than happy to throw it in there- and got the endless tonic. It is a personal choice.

The Mystic Forge offers a win or lose outcome.

I wasn’t willing to risk losing the tonics myself, so I didn’t try. If I did, however, then it’d only be my fault. Some people need to learn to admit to, and accept, the consequences of their own actions.

These complaints are mind-boggling. It all reads as selfish behavior and it’s disappointing.

Just for starters, the content is free. Apparently that’s not good enough. What makes this uproar even more shocking is how no one is considering their choices and willing to accept the consequences as a result. You’re not being forced to indulge in the content. You guys need to take a step back out of that perfect little bubble of yours and realize what you’re actually doing.

Bleh!

Anyways, back on topic. I’ll be adding the golem tonic tomorrow to complete my four and take the gamble. Wish me luck!

niwaar.5631:

I too want to know this…

My friend had tossed hers because she decided to be a good patron of the game and purchase a couple of the pets from the store. Now she is being punished because she thought there was no other use for these items?

I hope everyone who threw away their items has a chance to find a happy ending still. That said, if an item has been added to the game less than a week ago, and you got one and only one of them, for the love of Grenth, why would you throw it away? As a general rule, if I get only 1 of something, and it seems like it’s potentially impossible to get it again, I’m going to keep it for a few months…

Imagine if people acted like your friend when they got their Gifts of Exploration. Horror.

Does anybody know what you get if you put 4 endless toymaker tonics (princess doll, ventari, soldier, and griffon)?

What do we take away from this… never toss event items (before end of the event), actually I still have my candy powered meter thingy from halloween even, wonder if it still gives you toilet paper and ToT bags :P

Another random endless tonic. Don’t do it if you care about the ones you already have.

There are several threads about this already, full of complaints. Theres a tiny chance of getting a toymakers tonic, otherwise you get the endless tonic for tomorrow. Do so at your own risk.

NO!!!!!!!

Never do this. Several people have tried and gotten back things like Endless Golem Tonic (tomorrow’s tonic).

Just don’t do it. (someone did say they got an Endless Toymaker Tonic which would be worth it but it’s RNG)

Stormleaf.1769:

Another random endless tonic. Don’t do it if you care about the ones you already have.

My guess is that the recipe using the endless tonics is something else, like 3x endless tonic + x + y (would go in line with the fact that you have enough to make two minis). Just saying even if the specific recipe using endless tonics wasn’t the one everyone suspected that shouldn’t rule other things out, right?

Well not going to be brave enough to experiment, but just saying that it is possible.

By now hopefully everyone knows that you only have a very small chance to get the endless toymakers tonic.

However the behavior of this recipe seems odd to me. I would have expected the recipe to return one of the five possible toy tonics (princess, griffon, golem, etc) with a small chance at the endless toymaker tonic. But it seems that almost everyone (myself included) has received the endless golem tonic and not one of the four other toys.

I wonder what the recipe will return tomorrow? And whether this is intended?

Updated the OP to provide a bit of a warning.

I got 2 on the first try, the 3rd one I got after 10 tries (Spend 7g on getting the 3rd one, stuffing and magic glue skyrocketed ofcourse).

20 tries….still no endless plush griffon tonic (but 60 non-endless <.<)

So there’s a double RNG aspect to the creation of these? (from endless x to endless toymaker’s? not sure if this is intended… it could possibly be a bug??)

That’s pretty nuts man.

If you’re going to try for an endless toymaker’s tonic… try to hold off until all toys have been revealed and see if it gets patched to be 100% sure fire thing. It could possible be a bug… we’ll have to wait for a dev response on the matter to see because I doubt they’d introduce a double RNG mechanic to get the endless toymaker’s tonic.

A dev post on the issue would really be nice!