The only thing this patch does is that it decimated PvDooring. People aren’t used to it, especially large guilds who PvDoored for most of WvW. Almost every break in resulted from PvDoor.
Of course we’d hear complaints. I’m not surprised since it’s day 1. People tend to be conservative when it comes to games.
However, people adjust. Eventually PvDoor will become a thing of the past and alternate, possibly more effective strategies to take objectives will become more prominent.
To be honest, I’m glad PvDoor is coming to an end. It’s tiring and mindless.
PvDooring is a term that suggest that your only opponent is the door because you attack while other players aren’t there. This patch will not touch PvDooring. It will attack what is commonly known as Facerubbing though.
You almost insulted several great skirmish guilds as PvD players and they most definitely are not.
This will end facerubbing and it will also end any group smaller than 30 to take anything that is even remotely defended. It will slow down the action of the entire WvW scene will decrease the amount of fights in the game. Basically everything people didn’t want.
People wanted to end zerging (this will NOT do that).
A 20 man guild group could outheal 4 AC and 6 AC’s if they were well coordinated. I do not see what is wrong with that. That sounds perfect to me, add to that however that there was a cripple and also a bleed on the AC. If anything the arrow cart has always been a bit too powerful.
I wouldn’t say it punishes smaller groups either. Remember that arrow carts are most effective when players are all clumped up which can result from uncoordinated play. Smaller groups compensate this easily since they tend to be more coordinated.
I don’t think you fully grasp the severity of these changes – Especially after reading this. Let me lay it out.
Damage has been increased. Range has been increased, Radius has been increased. So whether people are clumped up or not is really not an issue. If people want to attack a gate then they need to get together in order to put supply on a piece of siege, now most of the good cata spots are within arrowcart range, arrowcarts that so 2k damage per hit per second. Is anything starting to dawn on you yet? Whether its a group of 50 people 30 or 10 the arrowcart will sufficiently nullify them, especially smaller numbers.
My personal feeling is that siege is there to supplement defence, not defend in its entirety otherwise what is the point of WvW if 3 people on AC’s can defend against groups of 30+?
1 min 30 is the average time that takes for someone experiencied to react to a call for help and for attackers to take it. In most cases that call is done simply with white swords. Add 30 more secs to that formula and you have increased the reaction time of defenders by 30 seconds…
Strange to see people opposed to this. Its one of the few changes I actually completely agree with. I like what it does to the current mentality and finally defending will be of some use. Perhaps this would be less prevalent in lower tiers, but AC was really doing nothing in Tier 1 99% of the time. Doors were being busted down on 30-60 seconds and the 3 players manning AC were completely ignored. Now its not just a rush the door affair and people need to think and play a little more tactically.
PS. With the current siege cap problem, Id advise against placing 9 AC on one wall :p
Strange to see people opposed to this. Its one of the few changes I actually completely agree with. I like what it does to the current mentality and finally defending will be of some use. Perhaps this would be less prevalent in lower tiers, but AC was really doing nothing in Tier 1 99% of the time. Doors were being busted down on 30-60 seconds and the 3 players manning AC were completely ignored. Now its not just a rush the door affair and people need to think and play a little more tactically.
PS. With the current siege cap problem, Id advise against placing 9 AC on one wall :p
Why the hell should 3 AC’s be able to hold off a zerg!?! Why are people thinking this is how GW2 should be?! You should have people there to fight them! With some siege for support, siege should NOT defend the keep for you, do it with your kitten characters!
If you think 3 people should make the entire enemy zerg build trebs to capture anything and therefore make the allies rush into the trebs and call this game treb wars… then yes, it’ s a good patch.
1 treb and 4 arrow carts makes anything impossible to capture unless you use a treb to destroy another treb… and the 4 arrow carts inside of course
Strange to see people opposed to this. Its one of the few changes I actually completely agree with. I like what it does to the current mentality and finally defending will be of some use. Perhaps this would be less prevalent in lower tiers, but AC was really doing nothing in Tier 1 99% of the time. Doors were being busted down on 30-60 seconds and the 3 players manning AC were completely ignored. Now its not just a rush the door affair and people need to think and play a little more tactically.
PS. With the current siege cap problem, Id advise against placing 9 AC on one wall :p
Why the hell should 3 AC’s be able to hold off a zerg!?! Why are people thinking this is how GW2 should be?! You should have people there to fight them! With some siege for support, siege should NOT defend the keep for you, do it with your kitten characters!
Its not there to stop the zerg. Its there to delay them and to add more tact to attacking a building rather than running up to it at point blank range and bursting it down with no thought whatsoever.
If you think 3 people should make the entire enemy zerg build trebs to capture anything and therefore make the allies rush into the trebs and call this game treb wars… then yes, it’ s a good patch.
1 treb and 4 arrow carts makes anything impossible to capture unless you use a treb to destroy another treb… and the 4 arrow carts inside of course
If you think 3 people should make the entire enemy zerg build trebs to capture anything and therefore make the allies rush into the trebs and call this game treb wars… then yes, it’ s a good patch.
1 treb and 4 arrow carts makes anything impossible to capture unless you use a treb to destroy another treb… and the 4 arrow carts inside of course
There are more siege options than Trebs as well.
Tell me one… catas? No problem i got a treb unstoppable…
Balistas to siege? Lol
Rams? I got arrow carts dude!
Strange to see people opposed to this. Its one of the few changes I actually completely agree with. I like what it does to the current mentality and finally defending will be of some use. Perhaps this would be less prevalent in lower tiers, but AC was really doing nothing in Tier 1 99% of the time. Doors were being busted down on 30-60 seconds and the 3 players manning AC were completely ignored. Now its not just a rush the door affair and people need to think and play a little more tactically.
PS. With the current siege cap problem, Id advise against placing 9 AC on one wall :p
Why the hell should 3 AC’s be able to hold off a zerg!?! Why are people thinking this is how GW2 should be?! You should have people there to fight them! With some siege for support, siege should NOT defend the keep for you, do it with your kitten characters!
Its not there to stop the zerg. Its there to delay them and to add more tact to attacking a building rather than running up to it at point blank range and bursting it down with no thought whatsoever.
If you allow enemies to point blank face-bash the door down on your towers/keeps then you are doing something seriously wrong, why not… I dont know… Maybe go out and fight them? I know its an alien prospect but it works sometimes!
Strange to see people opposed to this. Its one of the few changes I actually completely agree with. I like what it does to the current mentality and finally defending will be of some use. Perhaps this would be less prevalent in lower tiers, but AC was really doing nothing in Tier 1 99% of the time. Doors were being busted down on 30-60 seconds and the 3 players manning AC were completely ignored. Now its not just a rush the door affair and people need to think and play a little more tactically.
So you are saying 3 defenders should be able to fend off 40+ attackers indefinitely ? Ok…
Properly built and manned defenses did just fine before this patch already.
Hold off means not beeing able to take it? Or delay. Since now it doesn’t delay. It negates captures…
I’m still seeing a lot of flipping in WvW. Not just camps either.
That’s not due to arrow carts, that’s because of the 30 secs delay in contesting notice. It takes time for and empty structure to send a scout and scout the area, then call for help and finally the help must come in time…
Anet please delete rams and golems.The are useless now .*literally *
I agree, golems need a buff tbh. Although I think they need to fix elementalists so they can’t melt any AC they want to almost instantly because if they can do that it makes AC useless again and golems would be OP.
Strange to see people opposed to this. Its one of the few changes I actually completely agree with. I like what it does to the current mentality and finally defending will be of some use. Perhaps this would be less prevalent in lower tiers, but AC was really doing nothing in Tier 1 99% of the time. Doors were being busted down on 30-60 seconds and the 3 players manning AC were completely ignored. Now its not just a rush the door affair and people need to think and play a little more tactically.
So you are saying 3 defenders should be able to fend off 40+ attackers indefinitely ? Ok…
Properly built and manned defenses did just fine before this patch already.
You didn’t read what I said at all if your thinking I said anything about indefinitely. Nothing in my post indicated anything of the sort.
Strange to see people opposed to this. Its one of the few changes I actually completely agree with. I like what it does to the current mentality and finally defending will be of some use. Perhaps this would be less prevalent in lower tiers, but AC was really doing nothing in Tier 1 99% of the time. Doors were being busted down on 30-60 seconds and the 3 players manning AC were completely ignored. Now its not just a rush the door affair and people need to think and play a little more tactically.
PS. With the current siege cap problem, Id advise against placing 9 AC on one wall :p
Why the hell should 3 AC’s be able to hold off a zerg!?! Why are people thinking this is how GW2 should be?! You should have people there to fight them! With some siege for support, siege should NOT defend the keep for you, do it with your kitten characters!
Totally agree. That is why I have always said there should be no walls on towers or keeps. Defend with your kitten characters !
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
Hold off means not beeing able to take it? Or delay. Since now it doesn’t delay. It negates captures…
I’m still seeing a lot of flipping in WvW. Not just camps either.
That’s not due to arrow carts, that’s because of the 30 secs delay in contesting notice. It takes time for and empty structure to send a scout and scout the area, then call for help and finally the help must come in time…
So you’re saying there’s never enough time for a defending group to come in, build arrow carts, and stop the attack?
Also, it’s better if people stop stacking at the door.
By the time people realices it is contested and arrives… no. Attackers stop them from going in. Or you think that zergs will move around every contested point… they first send sscouts, the the scout arrives, then the zerg/help arrives. That takes a lot of time.
This can’t be intentional, twice the range and hitting for 4K+?? Just defended a tower with 2 guys against 20+. Please roll this back. ACs were a bad idea already, now it’s just a joke.
Imagin what 5 arrow carts could do… 5k-7k dmg per second per 50 people Noone could stand in a gate area anymore… lol.
On top of that the range increase negates the good cata spots also. Such a well thought out addition to WvW.
Like I said before, are the “good” catapult spots relative to the gate or the walls? Arrow cart max range is 2500. Catapult has 4000 range.
If the “good” catapult spots are relative to the gate, then your point is moot.
ACs now hit Cata’s on the south ruins in borderlands, hit cata spots inside garrison, hit cata’s on the west side of the north east tower on borderlands, hit cata’s on the siege spot of the north west tower also, these were spots created specifically for cata’s which are now effectively useless due to the range increase.
Too many people have already scuppered into this thread and started dribbling on their keyboard at the thought of destroying a zerg solo with an AC, what they fail to realize is the detriment this has to the entire game, especially due to the placement planning that was previously in place that has now been totally wiped aside due to the range increase, let alone the fact the damage increase is insanity in a box.
Rams are mostly worthless now. They should make rams invincible to arrow carts.
That’s excessive, but the damage against rams/golems should definitely go down a bit. The blueprint description even says their intent is to be used as area damage against infantry(granted, it also uses the word “moderate”). Door siege melting IS pretty silly.
Then again, why do towers even HAVE doors to begin with? I mean if my house had a magical portal that only allowed people I liked inside, I don’t think I’d even bother with having a door.
Imagin what 5 arrow carts could do… 5k-7k dmg per second per 50 people Noone could stand in a gate area anymore… lol.
On top of that the range increase negates the good cata spots also. Such a well thought out addition to WvW.
Like I said before, are the “good” catapult spots relative to the gate or the walls? Arrow cart max range is 2500. Catapult has 4000 range.
If the “good” catapult spots are relative to the gate, then your point is moot.
ACs now hit Cata’s on the south ruins in borderlands, hit cata spots inside garrison, hit cata’s on the west side of the north east tower on borderlands, hit cata’s on the siege spot of the north west tower also, these were spots created specifically for cata’s which are now effectively useless due to the range increase.
Yep, totslly fail this patch. Which will be next increase range of catas to fix this?
In my opinion, the damage increase for arrow cart is kinda too much.
80% dmg increase on AC should be good for outmanned servers or players with [Outmanned] buff.
Euphemia Hime (Elementalist), Pinky Pearl (Mesmer), Avicenia (Ranger), Vanille Morgana (Necromancer)
Chibi Asura San (Engineer), Hikaru Masai (Guardian), Selene Minerva (Revenant)
Guild: The Bunnies [Bun] ~ Server: Jade Quarry
ùjust have to ask Anet this for the lolz.How is the new ac in the jump puzzle ?Make it superior + range You realize 1 person could never be taken down unless 100 man zerg or more.
Imagin what 5 arrow carts could do… 5k-7k dmg per second per 50 people Noone could stand in a gate area anymore… lol.
On top of that the range increase negates the good cata spots also. Such a well thought out addition to WvW.
Like I said before, are the “good” catapult spots relative to the gate or the walls? Arrow cart max range is 2500. Catapult has 4000 range.
If the “good” catapult spots are relative to the gate, then your point is moot.
ACs now hit Cata’s on the south ruins in borderlands, hit cata spots inside garrison, hit cata’s on the west side of the north east tower on borderlands, hit cata’s on the siege spot of the north west tower also, these were spots created specifically for cata’s which are now effectively useless due to the range increase.
According to whom?
You didn’t answer my question though. As far as catapults are concerned for breaking through objectives, are they good spots relative to the gate or wall?
If you hadn’t already looked up then go look at some previous posts regarding new maps. Each map was created with specific spots in place for Cata’s/balista/treb and so on, higher plains and so on to allow counter trebs/balista/cata’s also.
Also in regard to that question, Cata’s are more effective on walls than they are on gates so what do you expect they would be hitting? All the spots I listed are against walls although splash damage can hit a gate if you want it to on 2 of said objectives.
This is my point, you wade into a conversation without having all the information required to make an educated input, I don’t expect you to go study this stuff but at least have a decent understanding of how this game was created, what went into creating the maps and how siege was initially introduced (all of which can be found via google if you were to look).
By the way, walls typically also take longer to take down than gates. Players tend to go for the path of least resistance.
This is where I start to get irked by some people. Cata’s do almost double the damage to a wall than they do to a gate. If you line a cata up against a wall and a gate and hit both then the wall will go down first – The only time this changes is when a keep/tower is fortified (and a gate is reinforced) and even then the difference is minimal.
Please in future do your research before you come out with absolute insanity in a thread and just make yourself look very dim.
By the way, walls typically also take longer to take down than gates. Players tend to go for the path of least resistance.
This is where I start to get irked by some people. Cata’s do almost double the damage to a wall than they do to a gate. If you line a cata up against a wall and a gate and hit both then the wall will go down first – The only time this changes is when a keep/tower is fortified (and a gate is reinforced) and even then the difference is minimal.
Please in future do your research before you come out with absolute insanity in a thread and just make yourself look very dim.
You wouldn’t have to explain this if he’d spent a week in wvw. Everyone should know them cata spots by now, they get used on a daily basis.
Funny thing is you can now counter every cata / ram spot in ne tower with an ac or treb (at the balllista spot). Only way to take it is to treb it.
Probably the same with just about every single tower and keep in the game actually
Haven’t seen this update in practice, but, in theory, I like that defense now has an advantage. It makes sense that you have to set up your own counter-seige to take out enemy firepower first. Slapping yaks and controlling camps also becomes more important. Maybe the maps will need to be modified to allow a reasonable ballista spot to take out AC’s, or allow for mobile mortars that do great damage against seige, but this is moving in a great direction! Superior numbers might not just rule the day 100% of the time now. Strategy is a good thing.
Haven’t seen this update in practice, but, in theory, I like that defense now has an advantage. It makes sense that you have to set up your own counter-seige to take out enemy firepower first. Slapping yaks and controlling camps also becomes more important. Maybe the maps will need to be modified to allow a reasonable ballista spot to take out AC’s, or allow for mobile mortars that do great damage against seige, but this is moving in a great direction! Superior numbers might not just rule the day 100% of the time now. Strategy is a good thing.
I don’t post in the forums because it usually is not worth it with all the trolls but…
I really felt compelled to come here and ask anet just what the kitten they were thinking when they super buffed arrow carts. Are the people making these changes actually playing WvW? And if they are, after this change, should they still be in charge of WvW when they clearly lack the cognitive ability to spot a broken change when they make one?
Sometimes I wonder if they even play their own game... They really need a bigger population to play on a public test realm and allow really consumers of their game put in feedback.
AoE Wars, Arrow Cart Wars... I’m losing my interest Wars.
Guardian / Warrior / Thief / Necromancer
Black Gate – Immortals of the Mist [IoM]
Haven’t seen this update in practice, but, in theory, I like that defense now has an advantage. It makes sense that you have to set up your own counter-seige to take out enemy firepower first. Slapping yaks and controlling camps also becomes more important. Maybe the maps will need to be modified to allow a reasonable ballista spot to take out AC’s, or allow for mobile mortars that do great damage against seige, but this is moving in a great direction! Superior numbers might not just rule the day 100% of the time now. Strategy is a good thing.
Again someone sorely misinformed. Defence has always had an advantage! Its whether you were capable enough to use that advantage or not. Siege is not meant to defend a tower on its own, people are meant to defend objectives… sadly the person at Arena-net who decided on these Arrowcart changes didn’t get that memo.
Sometimes I wonder if they even play their own game… They really need a bigger population to play on a public test realm and allow really consumers of their game put in feedback.
AoE Wars, Arrow Cart Wars… I’m losing my interest Wars.
Agree, need a special server where real players can test this stuff before being released. Their current alpha testers are worthless.
Due to your post referring to an already deleted post, your post was deleted as well.
Say goodbye to your rams and golems. Guild wars 2 WvW were 1 man and his superior arrow cart is all powerful. This and the timer activation of an attack on a keep are the two worst changes I have ever seen in this games history of WvW.
Okay sure, let’s just say I was ignorant about the stuff about catapult positioning. That said, it wasn’t exactly my point to begin with, it was a side argument. My original point coming to this post was that this is meant to end zerg facerubbing.
Regarding the catapults, I am saying that with the introduction with the new arrow carts, catapults can be used on the walls of objectives (all objectives, not just exclusive to large objectives such as keeps) instead of the gate, far out of reach from the arrow carts. Yes, they’re not in your “good positions”, but given the new arrow carts, they’re viable positions to be built in.
I don’t think the catapult can be countered in every single position by arrow carts alone given the large range difference. Yes, they’ll be more vulnerable to other factors, but the position wouldn’t be destroyed by arrow carts.
I believe the new range on a fully upgraded arrowcart is 3500 (confirmed) which is only 500 less than a cata. The spots I have listed are totally not viable anymore in the game. These spots were put in originally as a cata spot. We then have the issue with Treb’s only being counter-able by counter-trebs which makes defence far more overpowered and turtling that much more worth while.
Swirling no longer protects cata’s, skilled and effective cycling of people using swirling is no longer encouraged, you cannot tank a fully sieged gate so skilled and effective skill usage of groups is not encouraged. The only thing encouraged in this patch is to zerg even more because Arrowcarts are that much more overpowered now meaning you actually need MORE people to take an objective as opposed to less…
If an Arrowcart can stop a group of 60 people on a tower/keep then why the hell does someone think a group of 30 will attempt it? or a group of 20? The only eventuality is for LARGER groups to attack.
I am really disappointed with the ac change, anet please tell me what warranted the 80% buff to damage. Acs were already powerful and you could stack several but now it is a joke. Siege Wars 2 indeed.
Tubameteor/Tubadeath/Tubamage
Sanctum of Rall, Midnight Wardens [WARD]
