Guild Wars 2

I really hope all the ppl saying they will quit GW2, will really quit

I’m a little late to this party because work blocks this site so I haven’t had the free time to complain (hee hee).

Arrow Carts: I love the idea of having arrow cart WvW boost from WxP. But the implementation is all wrong.

1. The range is way too long. When an AC can out distance a catapult, that’s junk. Not only does it defy logic, it makes catas useless in a game where rams are now useless as well (see 2)

2. The damage increase. WACK! Rams, golems and players melt from AC damage now. I could kinda deal with this if it weren’t for the fact that catas are within range of ACs too so there’s no way to ‘siege’ a tower.

3. Combine this with the end of rotating alts through JP to get siege, and unflappable camps due to RI Supervisors and you have a game where Arrow Carts are better than PLAYERS because siege and supply are more scarce and Carts out range and out damage ALL PLAYERS and cannot be countered if positioned right.

Please please please half the bonus range, and scale the damage way back.

I’m not here to argue about this. Jut add my two cents, so no one needs to respond because I will not be bothering to get into a discussion because this is how I feel about it and it isn’t going to change.

Next AC update coming

Golems could resit much better AC, altough if theres an OIl it will melt the golems, and to destroy the oil players need to avoid AC, atm wvw lacks on rules, this AC could work fine on a real
large map, not this fast deahmatch map.

Daenenaxt.2498:

Next AC update coming

System Control;Operator23_Auroraglade: “Ghost Online”
System Message;22343: “Nuclear missle launch detected”

priceless xD

It’s fun to see some people talking about realism. Arrowcarts should kill you because real arrows does? Well, a single tick from a superior arrowcart hurts about as much as taking a treb shot in the face.
Something is seriously wrong when 10 players dish out LESS damage than 1 arrowcart.

Hi everyone,

This thread has been forwarded to Anet so that they are aware of what does the community think about the Arrow Carts changes.

Thanks for your feedback.

1613 posts had to be written to have some feedback.

Well it’s something!

Aeolus.3615:

i cant wait for tonight reset, lets see what kind of new moviments will be there

here are some examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6EknwERf3o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeTBqolcrO8

Amazing movie… Here, have my +1 <3

When it comes to AC’s its not a single thing that makes them awful, its everything together.
They don’t require LoS, wich means they can be placed in the most awekward places.
They don’t require LoS, which means they can hit everywhere.
You can’t hide from them, even if you have a roof above your head.
They do not count as projectiles, so they can’t be blocked.
They can’t be retaliated, reflected or negated in any way.
They ignore height difference, meaning that in order for a cata to destroy them the cata needs to be placed on higher ground than the AC.

This is game breaking and I can’t believe that this shortsighted changed was actually implemented. Worse, I can’t believe it was allowed to stay as long as it has.

Spend 50+ gold gearing a character to actually be able to play the game?

Why?

Spend 5 silver( I have no idea how much AC’s cost…) buy an AC, get your under leveled character out, sit on said AC and spam 1-2-3-4-5 (again , I have never used one, so I have no idea what buttons do what..but I assume theres 5 skills?)

Well done ANET.

but hey, I guess people are finally buying more treb blueprints so its a win for you guys right? more gold…

Thanks.

Please give us an arena to 20v20 in if this ridiculously absurd update is not going to be patched out.

Loken.9724:

Spend 50+ gold gearing a character to actually be able to play the game?

Why?

Spend 5 silver( I have no idea how much AC’s cost…) buy an AC, get your under leveled character out, sit on said AC and spam 1-2-3-4-5 (again , I have never used one, so I have no idea what buttons do what..but I assume theres 5 skills?)

Well done ANET.

but hey, I guess people are finally buying more treb blueprints so its a win for you guys right? more gold…

Thanks.

Please give us an arena to 20v20 in if this ridiculously absurd update is not going to be patched out.

Condition damage affects arrow cart bleeds. Time to buy full carrion!

Nerf damage, increase bleed stacks/duration, disable gear/trait effects on siege, and reduce range to be less than or equal to catapults even with WvW traits.

If not, have variable damage per unit type. (instead of a flat +80% increase)

+40% dmg to infantry
+30% to cata/treb/ac
+20% to rams
+10% to golems (because arrows against steel makes sense, right?)

Use gold to buy siege? Never done that, just use badges….so next patch they will probably do away with those too. Oh and its pretty simple to get alot of siege from the jp if you do it as a guild and on a few chars, so expect to see blueprint rewards go pretty fast too.

Then they could up the prices of siege, lets say 1g for a cart, 3 for a treb, 10 for a golem, and yes people would have to start paying real cash to play wvw and use siege. Thats if there was anyone left playing at all…..

I am thinking that our new tactic is to just drop ACs open field and power them up anytime we meet an opposing force. Why bother with class abilities when I can just use 3 buttons?

covenn.7165:

I am thinking that our new tactic is to just drop ACs open field and power them up anytime we meet an opposing force. Why bother with class abilities when I can just use 3 buttons?

I’ve started to see this happen already sadly.

AndrewSX.3794:

covenn.7165:

I am thinking that our new tactic is to just drop ACs open field and power them up anytime we meet an opposing force. Why bother with class abilities when I can just use 3 buttons?

I’ve started to see this happen already sadly.

It’s a great tactic and used to happen even before the patch.

I feel that the range of arrowcart now is fine, but the damage it does is crazy at the moment . Keep the range but lower the damage it does when traited .
Hell 5 sliver for a killing machine . ….

Svarty.8019:

AndrewSX.3794:

covenn.7165:

I am thinking that our new tactic is to just drop ACs open field and power them up anytime we meet an opposing force. Why bother with class abilities when I can just use 3 buttons?

I’ve started to see this happen already sadly.

It’s a great tactic and used to happen even before the patch.

When best tactic in a open field fight becomes building ACs, something is really wrong with game or players.

covenn.7165:

I am thinking that our new tactic is to just drop ACs open field and power them up anytime we meet an opposing force. Why bother with class abilities when I can just use 3 buttons?

Any time I have come across another organized guild group in the open. minimum 3 AC’s insta-drop on both sides. Open field combat is now another version of siege warfare. Great.

Just wait until 100 man zergs realize just how many AC’s they can drop on demand in the open..

AndrewSX.3794:

Svarty.8019:

AndrewSX.3794:

covenn.7165:

I am thinking that our new tactic is to just drop ACs open field and power them up anytime we meet an opposing force. Why bother with class abilities when I can just use 3 buttons?

I’ve started to see this happen already sadly.

It’s a great tactic and used to happen even before the patch.

When best tactic in a open field fight becomes building ACs, something is really wrong with game or players.

Adapt or die.

Svarty.8019:

AndrewSX.3794:

Svarty.8019:

AndrewSX.3794:

covenn.7165:

I am thinking that our new tactic is to just drop ACs open field and power them up anytime we meet an opposing force. Why bother with class abilities when I can just use 3 buttons?

I’ve started to see this happen already sadly.

It’s a great tactic and used to happen even before the patch.

When best tactic in a open field fight becomes building ACs, something is really wrong with game or players.

Adapt or die.

Which is what WvW is doing.

I dont mind buff for AC since ppl spend points for it but 80% is too much imo
after all the description says moderate dmg not devastating dmg

It’s very time to do something about AC?
All of us are complaining, what ArenaNet is waiting ?
Let’s nerf it !

Adapt or die. Couldnt agree more, each update has forced the organise guilds/better non alligned players to adapt. The consumable nerf, skill changes, removing culling, after each update adaptations were made, new builds thought up, new armor bought/made. Yep alot of effort went into adapting just to make sure that we could keep fighting.

This latest update isnt a case of changing builds or taking the time to do that nasty pve stuff to get new armor. This update has totally changed the way wvw is played. As stated before, you now need no skill, no build, no armor (yep i tried naked arrowcartin..kinky), even a level 1 character can just pop down an ac in an open field fight, or sit on one in a tower. Why bother to even learn how to play your profession correctly.

This is not what wvw was. It is what wvw has become, siege wars. Press 3 buttons (or if you are lazy 1 will do) and no other effort required. Easy mode with a vengeance.

Nightingale.8364:

Adapt or die. Couldnt agree more, [..]
Easy mode with a vengeance.

Easy mode too hard for you?

Svarty.8019:

AndrewSX.3794:

covenn.7165:

I am thinking that our new tactic is to just drop ACs open field and power them up anytime we meet an opposing force. Why bother with class abilities when I can just use 3 buttons?

I’ve started to see this happen already sadly.

It’s a great tactic and used to happen even before the patch.

Yes of course at times, but not at the scale I am referring to…..

I hope that Arena will change quickly this major issue …

Toumai.4812:

I hope that Arena will change quickly this major issue …

They will observer for sure in the reset today

FractalChaos.6539:

blink

…

Really?

A) That’s me dancing in the video as arrow carts barely hurt me. I frapsed that fight.
B) I already mentioned the rams were dropped far too early. It was a bad move. Four people died and the other 20 or so stayed back and lived. 4 people died out of a possible 25. Not exactly a slaughter, is it?
C) The commanders did not “turn tail and run”; they needed supply to build catas and decided to go get some. It’s clearly visible in my chat window; “Ok, gonna resupply and try this again” That’s not a rout; that’s smart.

However, given that you didn’t read my earlier post about the video, given that you didn’t even know it was made by me, and given that you think the attack broke in a panic and ran when it’s quite obvious we didn’t…yeah, you’re kinda clueless.

A) No, I knew full well the video was made by you, that’s why I called you a kitten.
B) It should come as no surprise to anyone at all that if you stay outside the arrow cart range, they won’t do much damage to you. The arrow carts were obviously focusing the gate, and the people who approached the gate popped almost instantly. Just because 20 people stood outside the AC focus doesn’t mean they could have made it past the choke alive.
C) Call it smart if it helps you sleep at night, but 3 commanders showing up to a tower, dropping siege, seeing that siege destroyed, then breaking ranks and leaving the tower with an enormous tail is, by definition, a rout. If the video continued to show you returning with more supply and successfully taking the tower, that would be a different issue…but strangely you didn’t include that part.

Also, I didn’t say you broke in a panic, I said you fled, which you can deny if you’d like, but it’s clearly visible in the video.

The only thing your video showed was that your commanders started a siege woefully unprepared and undersupplied, and your players would rather dance around with 8 supply than build the siege their commander placed. To be honest, the arrow carts had very little to do with it.

Vena.8436:

Hickeroar.9734:

No, instead you have to sit back and treb for hours to make sure you take out all their siege before you can go in.

Try a few shots. Two treb shots will kill an AC, they splash too!

Exaggerating doesn’t really help you…

The FA zerg, to take Bay the other day, had 6 or 7 trebs set up from all angles to make sure they could kill all siege in Bay first. The external siege took well over an hour. The taking once they wiped our siege took about 2 minutes. I’m not saying their tactic wasn’t intelligent and successful. It was just….not fun. From either side.

600 supply in trebs alone (or more), not to mention the scores of arrowcarts that were dropped in the process…

The BT guys who were in that fight said it was incredibly boring from the outside. I know on the inside we just pretty much sat there waiting for them to come in. They outnumbered us substantially (and were more organized) so a push was impossible from our end. It was just a waiting-game snorefest.

Trebs + arrow carts + hours and hours. Welcome to the new meta.

I wasn’t exaggerating. This is experiential knowledge.

Loken.9724:

covenn.7165:

I am thinking that our new tactic is to just drop ACs open field and power them up anytime we meet an opposing force. Why bother with class abilities when I can just use 3 buttons?

Any time I have come across another organized guild group in the open. minimum 3 AC’s insta-drop on both sides. Open field combat is now another version of siege warfare. Great.

Just wait until 100 man zergs realize just how many AC’s they can drop on demand in the open..

This.

It seems like the first two days after the patch people were panicking about the effects on siege warfare. It seems that groups have now realized how unbalancing it can be to just drop the things in the middle of the field as well, and give your team an enormous advantage.

People saying you should just “run away” obviously don’t understand the concept of “3500 range.” You can easily be killed by the ACs, especially in the middle of hairy open field combat, in the amount of time it takes to traverse 3500 range.

Ysuera Kypheni.5632:

Caliban.3176:

yanoch.7051:

graverr.6473:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I love the change of arrowcarts, now make catapults able to be usable outside of AC-range again

Buff trebs and catas 80 % now and give them 33% more range like ACs.Yup that willmake things even.

I agree with you but now map will be getting too small. Scale up the map of about 33%. :P

Don’t forget to increase range on all weapons by 33% and make all structures 33% higher as well.

Also buff all armor and damage reduction by 80% as well as all player damage to compensate for that and healing and vitality as well of course.

Now the game is balanced again and no need to nerf Arrowcarts.
Just buff everything else in the game as well.

Arrow carts are under-powered. Imagine a real-life situation: when you’re hit by three arrows, two in the chest, one in the knee, you’ll have little chance to survive.

Now, you got a whole arrow-shower, and you’re still alive. So I recommend to empower those ant-toys. And, if were are already here, I also hate when someone heals up magically in just a second’s time.

Bringing up real life is ridiculous it has no place in the game. Yes people heal up magically, there is magic in this game.

Arrowcarts were never underpowered.

Anyone else downloading SWTOR now?

Oh. Just so it on topic.

/onefingervictorysalutetoanet

Thank you for the massive dump on WvW. Cant wait for Camelot Unchained.

Caliban.3176:

Ysuera Kypheni.5632:

Caliban.3176:

yanoch.7051:

graverr.6473:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I love the change of arrowcarts, now make catapults able to be usable outside of AC-range again

Buff trebs and catas 80 % now and give them 33% more range like ACs.Yup that willmake things even.

I agree with you but now map will be getting too small. Scale up the map of about 33%. :P

Don’t forget to increase range on all weapons by 33% and make all structures 33% higher as well.

Also buff all armor and damage reduction by 80% as well as all player damage to compensate for that and healing and vitality as well of course.

Now the game is balanced again and no need to nerf Arrowcarts.
Just buff everything else in the game as well.

Arrow carts are under-powered. Imagine a real-life situation: when you’re hit by three arrows, two in the chest, one in the knee, you’ll have little chance to survive.

Now, you got a whole arrow-shower, and you’re still alive. So I recommend to empower those ant-toys. And, if were are already here, I also hate when someone heals up magically in just a second’s time.

Bringing up real life is ridiculous it has no place in the game. Yes people heal up magically, there is magic in this game.

Arrowcarts were never underpowered.

Not to mention…do you think poking a flame ram, catapult, or trebuchet with arrows is going to hurt it? Yet the arrow carts melt all siege in moments.

Ysuera also fails to remember that to heal a person all the way up in combat requires a lot of coordination. Water fields have to be dropped in a coordinated way, and then enough people have to blast finish them to make them effective. They’re not just “magically healing up.” They’re being healed by players who are skilled enough to know how and when to use those particular skills.

Not to mention, on the topic of realism, that if you took a treb shot to the face….you’d be smeared like jelly.

The point isn’t realism. It’s fun.

This isn’t fun.

Quenta.2978:

Anyone else downloading SWTOR now?

Oh. Just so it on topic.

/onefingervictorysalutetoanet

Thank you for the massive dump on WvW. Cant wait for Camelot Unchained.

Planetside 2 :P

Im trying neverwinter

loseros.5912:

1613 posts had to be written to have some feedback.

Well it’s something!

Well, most of the “1613 posts” are just whinning without arguments… If there are 100 posts that really point somenthing it’s too much.

For myself… I don’t see a problem. I’ve never used rams on towers/keeps that are defended by ACs (even tho I know I could naked-dance under it) because that was simply plain stupid and now there is a major reason to not do so.

So basically, ArenaNet needed the test results from this new arrow cart change to prepare for future changes. Fine with me.

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d like to shed some light on our thinking with this AC change as well as tell you all what we are doing right now to balance it.

Firstly, when siege weapons were originally created, they had the intent of being really good at some things and not so good at others. The arrow cart is intended to be the anti-personal siege weapon. It is intended that arrow carts are all about controlling an area through damage. If you remain in the area that is being hit by the arrow cart, you will die. You can however, move out of the space and/or find a new way to attack the intended target. That being said, they are not intended to be so good against other siege weapons and we are in the process of addressing that right now. We are also addressing their range when upgraded to be more in line with the range of ballistas.

Secondly, this change is going to require new tactics and those tactics include things like using ballista and catapults to destroy arrow carts. With that in mind, we’ve been looking more closely at the numbers of all the siege weapons and there are definitely some changes that need to be made to bring them in line with their intent. We are going to take a holistic pass at siege weapons in the coming months and drop a rebalance of all of them to get them to more closely align with what they should be doing.

Finally, the feedback you all provide is a very useful part of this whole process. WvW is a living, breathing game type and any changes we make have numerous consequences that don’t become fully visible until everyone starts interacting with them and devising new strategies. Our goal is to provide a complex combat space that rewards skill, tactics, and ingenuity and while we haven’t fully achieved that goal yet, I like to think we are getting there.

I would appreciate you taking the “Siege is not there to defend a keep/tower for you” tenet to heart when you attempt to make these balances. WvW is meant to be about players fighting players with the addition of siege and so on to supplement the defence by players against players.

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d like to shed some light on our thinking with this AC change as well as tell you all what we are doing right now to balance it.

Firstly, when siege weapons were originally created, they had the intent of being really good at some things and not so good at others. The arrow cart is intended to be the anti-personal siege weapon. It is intended that arrow carts are all about controlling an area through damage. If you remain in the area that is being hit by the arrow cart, you will die. You can however, move out of the space and/or find a new way to attack the intended target. That being said, they are not intended to be so good against other siege weapons and we are in the process of addressing that right now. We are also addressing their range when upgraded to be more in line with the range of ballistas.

Secondly, this change is going to require new tactics and those tactics include things like using ballista and catapults to destroy arrow carts. With that in mind, we’ve been looking more closely at the numbers of all the siege weapons and there are definitely some changes that need to be made to bring them in line with their intent. We are going to take a holistic pass at siege weapons in the coming months and drop a rebalance of all of them to get them to more closely align with what they should be doing.

Finally, the feedback you all provide is a very useful part of this whole process. WvW is a living, breathing game type and any changes we make have numerous consequences that don’t become fully visible until everyone starts interacting with them and devising new strategies. Our goal is to provide a complex combat space that rewards skill, tactics, and ingenuity and while we haven’t fully achieved that goal yet, I like to think we are getting there.

And thus, destroy open field large scale pvp combat

ex) GvG
open field
keep fights

10v10
20v20
25v25
30v30
40v40
even fighting higher numbers
20v50
30v80

I’m sad to see this happen.

Since this is what the devs believe, the skirmish pvp guilds will probably be exiting this game soon.

Have fun with your pvsiege guys

DevonCarver.5370:

We are going to take a holistic pass at siege weapons in the coming months and drop a rebalance of all of them to get them to more closely align with what they should be doing.

Months? This is a serious issue at the moment we speak and all you can come up with is that you will change it in the coming months. I am afraid Mr Carver that most people will be sick and tired of the WvW game you created before you ever get to change it.

Nothing I can state here that hasn’t already been stated. Just want to help the cause by posting. So, ANet, please nerf the arrow carts, and do so quickly, preferably before reset tonight. Thanks.

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d like to shed some light on our thinking with this AC change as well as tell you all what we are doing right now to balance it.

Firstly, when siege weapons were originally created, they had the intent of being really good at some things and not so good at others. The arrow cart is intended to be the anti-personal siege weapon. It is intended that arrow carts are all about controlling an area through damage. If you remain in the area that is being hit by the arrow cart, you will die. You can however, move out of the space and/or find a new way to attack the intended target. That being said, they are not intended to be so good against other siege weapons and we are in the process of addressing that right now. We are also addressing their range when upgraded to be more in line with the range of ballistas.

Secondly, this change is going to require new tactics and those tactics include things like using ballista and catapults to destroy arrow carts. With that in mind, we’ve been looking more closely at the numbers of all the siege weapons and there are definitely some changes that need to be made to bring them in line with their intent. We are going to take a holistic pass at siege weapons in the coming months and drop a rebalance of all of them to get them to more closely align with what they should be doing.

Finally, the feedback you all provide is a very useful part of this whole process. WvW is a living, breathing game type and any changes we make have numerous consequences that don’t become fully visible until everyone starts interacting with them and devising new strategies. Our goal is to provide a complex combat space that rewards skill, tactics, and ingenuity and while we haven’t fully achieved that goal yet, I like to think we are getting there.

so you’re going to revert the arrow cart changes until you rebalance all the siege right?

Nice one. You buff arrowcarts to a point were they are op without implementing the counter to it? Are you serious???
It won’t matter if you do chance the rest in the coming months, because no one will be left to play:(

Moderator.1462:

Hi everyone,

This thread has been forwarded to Anet so that they are aware of what does the community think about the Arrow Carts changes.

Thanks for your feedback.

Wait… there were arrow cart changes?

I kid. Personally I’m not too put off with the changes. People shouldn’t be able to stand in an AC AoE field and shrug it off like it’s a warm drizzle. Ask me about the 30 second warning or the 30 minute despawn and I’ll be less kind, but the arrow carts I think reflect more resistance to a change in how we siege than anything else. We need to clear siege now rather than ignore it. Supply is more valuable. It’s a shock to the system.

@devon: thank for finally showing up. Fine with changes, but do those FAST, don’t wait longer than few days/1 week.
To me the base dmg buff should be toned down, if not reverted altogheter. Perk is fine, BUT you should make it balanced across the other sieges perks. AC one offers a MUCH bigger improvements to weapon perfomances compared to other 2.
Also, buff/extend siege bunker perk if you want to keep dmg this scale.
But then you’d have some form of elitism – Whoever isn’t at least rank X of bunker perk won’t survive. Something just a little (read: a lot) adverse to the Anet policy so far.

Just my ideas.

Anyway, please please keep this in mind:

WvW is meant to be about players fighting players with the addition of siege and so on to supplement the defence by players against players.

One thousand more times, THIS. PvP with sieges on top of that, not SvS with players as marginal feature.

Lance.5892:

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d like to shed some light on our thinking with this AC change as well as tell you all what we are doing right now to balance it.

Firstly, when siege weapons were originally created, they had the intent of being really good at some things and not so good at others. The arrow cart is intended to be the anti-personal siege weapon. It is intended that arrow carts are all about controlling an area through damage. If you remain in the area that is being hit by the arrow cart, you will die. You can however, move out of the space and/or find a new way to attack the intended target. That being said, they are not intended to be so good against other siege weapons and we are in the process of addressing that right now. We are also addressing their range when upgraded to be more in line with the range of ballistas.

Secondly, this change is going to require new tactics and those tactics include things like using ballista and catapults to destroy arrow carts. With that in mind, we’ve been looking more closely at the numbers of all the siege weapons and there are definitely some changes that need to be made to bring them in line with their intent. We are going to take a holistic pass at siege weapons in the coming months and drop a rebalance of all of them to get them to more closely align with what they should be doing.

Finally, the feedback you all provide is a very useful part of this whole process. WvW is a living, breathing game type and any changes we make have numerous consequences that don’t become fully visible until everyone starts interacting with them and devising new strategies. Our goal is to provide a complex combat space that rewards skill, tactics, and ingenuity and while we haven’t fully achieved that goal yet, I like to think we are getting there.

And thus, destroy open field large scale combat

ex) GvG
open field
keep fights

10v10
20v20
25v25
30v30
40v40
even fighting higher numbers
20v50
30v80

I’m sad to see this happen.

Since this is what the devs believe, the skirmish pvp guilds will probably be exiting this game soon.

If this is the case. Please give us a platform in which to GvG in this game.