Guild Wars 2

OutspokenAardvark.9781:

If TC had t1 coverage, I bet TC and BG would work together against JQ because we are pretty much infatuated with each other. I can tell you if BG were to move down and TC move up, your problem is only going to get worse because most of TC still hates SoR and I include myself in that group. I know I would take a third place week after week just to see how low I could keep SoR’s score.

Maybe it’s just me, but I recall the time TC and SoR spent together in T2, especially while Blackgate was still around, as having been pretty good. As Howl the Brazen would have said, “Best fight in weeks.” =/

Pretty sure SoR and TC have always had good relations. Don’t believe the trolls.

I will never get that arguments about “JQ has so many people and huge zergs”. But I guess the grass is always greener on the other side. SoR is the smallest server of the three in T1, but BG is not smaller than JQ. You just should get your forum warriors to the maps and stop complaining. In the week were BG ended up first, the maps were stacked with BG zergs. After that week BG started playing outmanned and still guarding a yak with 10+ people.
This permanent complaining about numbers really gets old.

We pushed JQ into their spawn in EB last night and practically begged you to take their garrison while we held the line. You rewarded us by trying to ninja SM. Go to h3ll, Blackgate. You guys will never learn.

As long as we beat BG, Im happy. There is simply nothing SOR can do to beat JQ at this moment without pulling ridiculous hours in wvw. We will bide our time, while building our numbers and tactics. When the time is right we will strike.

I get IMMENSE satisfaction beating BG anyway, so losing to JQ isn’t something I take too hard. Losing to BG on the other hand, would induce massive nerdrage.

Kiran.2705:

We pushed JQ into their spawn in EB last night and practically begged you to take their garrison while we held the line. You rewarded us by trying to ninja SM. Go to h3ll, Blackgate. You guys will never learn.

Playing EB tonight. Apparently I came in after we were near pushed off the map with only the keep left :p Eventually we pushed back and got escorts going and supplied our stuff. Meanwhile SOR is going at as hard still, whilst BG caps up SOR’s stuff. Eventually SOR had to backoff to protect their stuff because BG was trying to take it with a zerg that was substantially smaller than both SORs and JQs. And thats what will usually happen. If you leave the soft targets and focus on JQ when they can fight back, then your only doing harm to your server. Take the soft stuff and fight it out then. Soon the commanders at JQ will catch on and cap up BG whilst defending against SOR and then you guys will be losing out.

Jedbacca.6297:

I’ll admit it, I’ve had nights to where I have had to do just that. You play the map.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

This is not a call for an alliance, its simply a call for us to open our eyes and use the three sided dynamic for what it was designed for.

So I am going to focus on these two topics. I am a Jade Quarry/Strike Force Commander. I generally tag up during 4-10 pm EST. North American prime time doesn’t really start, for us anyway, until about 9 pm EST. So at any given time on our designated map we are experiencing an outmanned buff. During this period our team establishes a goal: from fun to taking Garrison/Hills/Bay.

Generally, we are fairly mindful of our surroundings and depending on what our target server is on that day. For example it is SoR borderlands our objective would be neutralize NE tower/Waypoint Hills, but besides that we’d maintain our holdings. This is where “playing the map” comes into play. The moment that the other server starts touching my stuff. I stop focusing on the original target and will wipe them off the map. This seems to be a common practice for all three servers, but during this timezone it is a less organized period for all servers, to an extent. However, the 1v2 is rare during this time period (4-9 pm est) because there are so few organized guilds on the map, and it is much easier to break morale. I play the map based on what my team desires and what we’re capable of.

Transition to Jed’s time period of 9pm-1am est and there are more organized guilds/commanders on the map. Which allows the 1v2 to become more possible and more frequent. From my perspective I fight SoR and Bg more frequently during this timezone. So from our perspective, the NA prime commanders, we are always fighting both servers. However, circumstances changes and there are a variety of variables that can cause 1v2 whether it is: morale, boredom, new commander, etc. It varies depending on your timezone and on certain variables.

That’s just some of my insight on the matter, and I enjoy the great fights from both servers. Cheers.

Being from JQ, I think SoR and BG should ignore JQ and let us beat both of you down without any resistance.

JQ loves a challenge. Bring it on.

What BG can also do is… get kicked out of T1 for one week on purpose. Go to T2 and p0wn FA & KN so hard there that they jump over SoR in rating!

(It is ofcourse a coincidence that this advice is brought to you by a TCer that will benefit from this by going to T1, hehe)

BG member here and here is my perspective while playing anywhere f/ 5pm – 3 am est. Many times I see commanders PURPOSELY leave JQ soft targets alone (such as southern SoR tower recently flipped to JQ side). They want nothing more then to attack SoR and get the double team onto SoR; no matter what map we are on.

Now why is this? The consensus amongst many on BG is that we are in the predicament we are in cuz of the nonstop double teaming on us and SoR is “inferior” yada yada yada so we are trying to give SoR a taste of the 2v1 that BG supposedly has had to endure nonstop while in T1. Or we tend to be shortsighted at times and see a soft SoR target and go for that while ignoring the JQ behemoth on the map so both SoR and BG fight for scraps nonstop while JQ comes in and cleans us both up afterwords (honestly a lot of times I can’t blame anyone on any side for this tactic).

What is the fix for this? Hell idk. SoR and BG have way too much bad blood between us and are both gun shy on soley focusing on JQ. Our commanders many times try and bait either SoR or JQ to assist us in a double team but rarely does it happen without the other then hitting our soft targets immediately causing us to fall back. So it becomes an endless cycle of lower morale on both BG and SoR of less people logging in/less hours wvwing/looking for only soft targets while the behemoth of JQ keeps on rolling us both. The end result = JQ wins no matter what and more bad blood between SoR and BG and less people logging in for wvw all around (worse for both BG and SoR). So the fights in T1 become worse as time goes on for all of those involved although JQ comes out ahead and grows with each and every week.

Just honest question here, How long did BG hold off JQ in Asian primetime till their morale break ?

If there was ever a coordinated 2v1 I would personally buy every member of my guild who doesnt already have multiple accounts a copy of gw2 along with a stash of gems and coordinate a mass sabotage and filling wvw spots campaign. So go ahead I have an excess amount of disposable income.

TC and SoR for the most part havn’t had bad blood between us. There was a couple of weeks in T2 where SoR got some transfers and beat TC easily (it was a 1v1 for the most part, SBI lost a bunch of guilds).
We had some SoR post that we understand what TC was going through (coverage wins) and we showed them some respect. This however backfired and a bunch of TC felt like we were “patronizing” them (we really were not), so some of these TC still hold a grudge on us.

fragnstein.3486:

SoR and BG need to constantly push JQ all week long if we want to have a closer score at weeks end

SoR tries to push JQ all week long. Unfortunately there is that pesky third enemy that keeps attacking our stuff.

Voicer.8239:

Im sure would not be for this absurd score we’re seeing all this weeks!

What absurd score?

350k – 120k – 100k is an absurd score.

240k – 200k – 180k really isnt.

SoR has come to expect the double team and we are dealing with it just as we did in T2.

It happens, what are you going to do besides just keep fighting on.

Asglarek.8976:

If there was ever a coordinated 2v1 I would personally buy every member of my guild who doesnt already have multiple accounts a copy of gw2 along with a stash of gems and coordinate a mass sabotage and filling wvw spots campaign. So go ahead I have an excess amount of disposable income.

So let’s say you get 300 people to do this (I’m sorry anything under that wouldn’t make a difference during the majority of the day). That’s $60/game = $18,000. Not to mention a slew of gems as you claimed. So if this happens you are willing to blow upwards of $20,000 on a frigging game to sabotage it? I’m sorry but I can think of much better things to do with 20 grand no matter how much disposable income I have. This coming from someone who left a pay to win Chinese MMO where people would spend upwards of $5-10000 a MONTH just on clothing; let alone people spending $30,000 irl cash just on 1 weapon that would became obsolete 6-9 months later. There they personally at least got something tangible for it; albeit it short lived at times. I’d love to laugh at someone who’d do this such as yourself personally as it would not in the least bit impact me; whereas that other game I was forced to compete with those heavy cash shoppers nonstop.

Deadcell.9052:

I have the highest hopes for this every week, for BG and SoR to focus JQ down so they do not have a 30k point lead by the end of sunday night, but every week both servers fail. They both preach how they are in it to win it yet all they do is focus each other and let JQ run away with it week after week.

Sorry this isn’t reality, SoR doesn’t focus BG anymore than we focus JQ.

The 30-50k lead the generally have by the end of the week pretty much all comes from a single time slot that neither SoR or BG can match them in, even if we were to somehow put aside our differences and agree to 2v1 strictly them. (SoR won’t agree to that …but yeah).

All three servers are competitive with each other when we have equal numbers on. All three servers can run up the PPT at different times.
All three servers deserve to be in T1.

We have good fights and nonstop action. There is nothing to complain or whine about. At some point, the major guild in the time slot causing the run up in points is going to get bored with fighting skeleton crews and keep guards, and will seek out something more challenging be it another server or game…. (don’t get me wrong, I am not degrading this guild at all. imo they are one of the best JQ has to offer, unfortunately they just don’t have enough people to fight against).

There are moments of 2v1 all the time, it’s the nature of three sided combat.

Interesting thought… if SoR and BG were to team up against JQ, who would get to “win” and who would get the honor of acting at the lapdog?

All experienced veterans of faction based pvp games cheered when GW2 announced it would be a three way battle, but some how it has now becomes a social stigma in GW2 to actually utilize the fact that it is a three way battle.

A lot of tiers would benefit greatly from some level of cooperation between underpopulated servers, thus making the tiers more interesting and fun for all. To me this would be a more interesting style of play than simply keep trying to recruit in the never ending game of coverage wars.

dwahvel.7356:

TC and SoR for the most part havn’t had bad blood between us. There was a couple of weeks in T2 where SoR got some transfers and beat TC easily (it was a 1v1 for the most part, SBI lost a bunch of guilds).
We had some SoR post that we understand what TC was going through (coverage wins) and we showed them some respect. This however backfired and a bunch of TC felt like we were “patronizing” them (we really were not), so some of these TC still hold a grudge on us.

Yeah that was really unfortunate because as one of the people that made such a post, I was being empathetic not patronizing.

Some people are just way too sensitive about things or are just overly defensive by nature and are incapable of taking things at face value. The truth is, that it was only one or two of these people on TC that started all the drama about ‘patronizing’ them and it snowballed into a mess. Sucks, because those posts by myself and others were coming from a good place.

OutspokenAardvark.9781:

I can tell you if BG were to move down and TC move up, your problem is only going to get worse because most of TC still hates SoR and I include myself in that group. I know I would take a third place week after week just to see how low I could keep SoR’s score.

See, this is an example of someone who jumped on the ‘being patronized’ bandwagon. Absolutely silly and sad at the same time. Did you actually ever read any of the initial posts that started the ‘drama’ and make any attempt to take them at face value, or did you just pay attention to the ultra sensitive poster or two from your server that invented drama where there should have been none?

Err… or were you one of the posters that caused that situation? It has been a while and I don’t recall who they were.

covenn.7165:

OutspokenAardvark.9781:

I can tell you if BG were to move down and TC move up, your problem is only going to get worse because most of TC still hates SoR and I include myself in that group. I know I would take a third place week after week just to see how low I could keep SoR’s score.

See, this is an example of someone who jumped on the ‘being patronized’ bandwagon. Absolutely silly and sad at the same time. Did you actually ever read any of the initial posts that started the ‘drama’ and make any attempt to take them at face value, or did you just pay attention to the ultra sensitive poster or two from your server that invented drama where there should have been none?

Err… or were you one of the posters that caused that situation? It has been a while and I don’t recall who they were.

To be fair, a number of rather vocal SoR hopped on that train and started some pretty distasteful posturing towards the final week of the SoR/TC/SBI matchups. I recall a stretch where close to 10 different +600 ppt score updates were posted within half an hour along with snide comments. I don’t exactly recall how the whole “patronizing” crap started and I’m sure there were people on the TC side that overreacted (those couple weeks were some of the lowest points for morale in general for the server), but those few SoR didn’t exactly help.

I also recall quite a few people did not take SoR’s supposed “tanking to stay in tier 2 for another week to build up community” thing too well, so that may be one of the things as well. Getting off topic though, back to T1 inter-server bashing!

ykyk.2740:

To be fair, a number of rather vocal SoR hopped on that train and started some pretty distasteful posturing towards the final week of the SoR/TC/SBI matchups.

I also recall quite a few people did not take SoR’s supposed “tanking to stay in tier 2 for another week to build up community” thing too well, so that may be one of the things as well. Getting off topic though, back to T1 inter-server bashing!

Actually I think the first thing you mentioned was a direct response to the people who created a big deal out of good intentions. once the drama starts, it generally snowballs out of control.

Regarding the last, that had nothing to do with TC. Can’t really help that whatever they thought was personal. SoR couldn’t have moved to T1 that week anyway due to glicko, so the entire basis for that drama was silly.

SoR ticking at +300 vs TC - "Quit patronizing us, bring your full force"
SoR ticking at +690 vs TC - "Quit spawn camping us"

Peetee.9406:

SoR ticking at +300 vs TC – “Quit patronizing us, bring your full force”
SoR ticking at +690 vs TC – “Quit spawn camping us”

Something like this, I guess. It’s easy to twist it to look like it’s the other server is being ridiculous, but what’s stopping SoR from going +690 without spawn camping and then posting various pictures of interesting siege formations at our spawn along with a green pie chart at 20 minute intervals? I don’t think either server is blameless in that whole fiasco, so let’s just stop arguing about it when there isn’t really much to argue in the first place.

The fact of the matter is whatever happened, it’s true that there might be SOME on TC that don’t see SoR in all that good a light. Is it justified and does it matter? That’s for nobody to say.

If BG and SoR actually did coordinate to take on JQ, the question is for how long? 1-2 weeks at most? And what did that do but basically keep the same 3 server teams pitted against one another. And since the information would be wide-spread of the double-team, it will be at best a “half-win”.

There is no benefit to coming in 2nd place is the problem with double-teaming. The win is not shared. There will always be one winner and two losers.

Kain want BG. We have the complimenting components. Just neither server has the money.

Curses sky Dang you why didn’t I RP more for gold. Hmmm.. Kain want TC and BG … then… if only…

… will NEVER happen, all servers too broke, and too much pride. Coupled with some enjoyable and best memory battles back and forth.

Q: What would it take to dethrone JQ?
A: … more money than we all have combined

Best of luck and enjoy the fight, regardless of ppt.

Thanks again to everyone keeping this discussion alive. Its helping all of us to get a clearer picture of what this looks like from all sides, and hopefully through this we can make T1 an intense competition again instead of a fight for 2nd place.

It seems some people either aren’t reading what I originally wrote or are misunderstanding what I wrote. This thread is not a call for a true double team. This is not an attempt to create an agreement to not attack each other. My purpose with this thread is to get both of our servers to actually utilize the three sided match dynamics as they were intended instead of it often being SoR vs BG with JQ looming overhead. From the responses that have come up we have seen a few things. One, that there is definitely bad blood between certain guilds on both of our servers. Hey, if all certain individuals want to do is beat one server that is your business and if you want to play that way that is your decision. Most of us however seem genuinely interested in changing the dynamic of the tier into something more competitive and more of what it could be.

Another great insight has come from SoR. Thank you to the people from SoR who have mentioned that in certain maps they make a point to focus on JQ, and how as they do so BG will often take advantage of their attention being elsewhere to take soft targets. THIS is what I am getting at with this post, THIS type of behavior. When BG is on a map and SoR is actively pushing JQ hard and its a time when JQ is fielding higher numbers than both other servers, we should be pushing JQ as well! Just because someone doesn’t have an outmanned buff doesn’t mean they aren’t outnumbered to a significant amount. Outmanned only seems to come on when the number difference is close to crippling. It is these times when JQ has superior coverage over both servers that it becomes in the best interest of both of our servers to take points from JQ. At these times the most we should be doing to each other is taking camps, anything else is foolish since it allows JQ to ever increase a commanding lead. As I said before, neither server can win solely by focusing on their own potential points. It is equally important to do everything you can to lower the potential points of the leader.

One of the best things to come from this is people from my own server being willing to admit that we have BG commanders that get too timid to do anything to JQ and stay focused on SoR instead. This especially hurts us when SoR is trying their hardest to take on Goliath. Like I said, its moments like this we have to change. It happens in reverse too, I’ve been there when we have been fighting JQ and certain SoR commanders only have an interest in causing BG to lose as many points as possible. Maybe some of them want to force BG out of T1, maybe they simply want to beat BG, it doesn’t really matter. What matters is that it is this type of behavior, this single minded focus, that causes the tier to be less than it should be. Do I expect these guilds to suddenly change? No. What I am hoping is that enough people will see the discussion here, and that the right people will see the discussion here, and changes will be made in how commanders choose targets. Honestly that is all this is going to take to turn this tier back into an intense competition where everyone doesn’t already know JQ is goin to win by over 50k in any given week.

Jade Quarry… big enough that complaining about them requires two WvW threads.

Actually, the “complaining” here is about Black Gate and Sanctum of Rall.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

Actually, the “complaining” here is about Black Gate and Sanctum of Rall…

… not teaming up to take on JQ in a coordinated 2v1 for the entire match. Right.

makes it a compliment to JQ, not a complaint

Volkon, I can only assume you’re trying to derail the thread by trolling since that has been addressed multiple times by multiple people. I am not going to engage with you further since it is off topic, have a nice day

Since it will serve no good purpose please do not follow my example and feed the trolls, and only post constructive discussion here for the people that actually care about improving the state of tier 1.

So far this has been mostly civilized and constructive discussion from people spanning all three servers involved and I am grateful for that. I would like to see more commanders getting involved as well.

Hexin.5603:

makes it a compliment to JQ, not a complaint

It’s definitely better to choose to take it as such, I agree. Still, no one seems to be willing to answer the thought as to which server in this hypothetical 2v1 would be allowed to win and which allowed to serve as the lapdog of the other. As I see it, any server with a hole in thier coverage is at risk of being solely targeted by JQ which would pretty well guarantee that their alliance would cost them any chance at all of ever winning or possibly ever finishing second. Then the other server would become insufferable with thier illusion of dominance… oh the forum PvP that would ensue…

I agree with Dramen Maidria post.
We can drop hate each other sometime and start real fight with JQ.
If u guy on SoR or BG you know we got love and hate to killing each other for loooooooong…time and if you guy need improve start fight JQ why not we talk polite stop stab in each other eyeball and do it.

Volkon since it seems like you’re being genuine I’ll answer your question. No one is addressing who would be allowed to win because no one is suggesting an alliance, like I said in the second post and as was said several times above. What is being said is that BG and SoR should take advantage of times when one server is attacking JQ at times when JQ has superior coverage to the other two servers instead of constantly tiptoeing around JQ. At least that is what I am saying. The competition in this tier will never truly be a three way competition if JQ is avoided most of the time or if JQ is engaged an equal amount. Both BG and SoR have to engage JQ more than they engage with themselves, not instead of themselves. I thought this was clear but in case it wasn’t, hopefully this clears up any continuing confusion.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

Volkon since it seems like you’re being genuine I’ll answer your question. No one is addressing who would be allowed to win because no one is suggesting an alliance, like I said in the second post and as was said several times above. What is being said is that BG and SoR should take advantage of times when one server is attacking JQ at times when JQ has superior coverage to the other two servers instead of constantly tiptoeing around JQ. At least that is what I am saying. The competition in this tier will never truly be a three way competition if JQ is avoided most of the time or if JQ is engaged an equal amount. Both BG and SoR have to engage JQ more than they engage with themselves, not instead of themselves. I thought this was clear but in case it wasn’t, hopefully this clears up any continuing confusion.

Oh hell, if that’s all then I’ve already seen that happen plenty of times. I recall many fights where we’re trying to defend Bay and we’ll have one server break in the north, the other in the south and some epic fights ensue (for example),The thing is, we’re all opportunistic. If you leave a weak flank to anyone it’ll get bit, and that’s as it should be. How long would it be, for example, before even a pug group ignored this proposed armistice and took a tower of opportunity?

JQ isn’t avoided by either one of you… that’s a silly concept right there. We’ve been victim of the alleged 2v1 just as both BG and SoR have felt they’ve been as well. It’s the nature of the three-server set up. You’ll always have a soft underbelly somewhere.

Well, seems the situation in T1 is doomed. Regardless if it’s BG or TC (if it moves up), they all have bad blood with SoR, which will make JQ happy…I guess the only solution is BG suddenly get all its burned out players back and push SoR to T2, ha!

I’d rather put in the effort to build a strong community over time, win legitimately and
become an honorable champion than resort to sketchy match manipulation tactics resulting in an asterisk win.

AlphaOne.2384:

I’d rather put in the effort to build a strong community over time, win legitimately and
become an honorable champion than resort to sketchy match manipulation tactics resulting in an asterisk win.

BG won fair and square. Any serious pvper on JQ will admit it.

pot.6805:

AlphaOne.2384:

I’d rather put in the effort to build a strong community over time, win legitimately and
become an honorable champion than resort to sketchy match manipulation tactics resulting in an asterisk win.

BG won fair and square. Any serious pvper on JQ will admit it.

Then why can’t you win again, fair* and square*? Ran out of rams? Jokes aside, if BG was able to win once, don’t make excuses for coverage or how you cannot win without another server’s cooperation.

No matter how much the OP tries to dress up his wall-of-text, he’s essentially asking for silent alliances in order to win. It’s insulting to other rising servers to suggest they cannot win any other way.

VOLKON.1290:

Jade Quarry… big enough that complaining about them requires two WvW threads.

^
|
|
This is sig worthy.

I dont know why youre crying or why this thread exists honestly, for the past week or two its basically always SOR+BG attacking JQ and ignoring each other. Mainly on EB and JQ BL, while BG owns nothing in SOR BL and SOR sometimes owns 1 keep in BG BL, when they take it from JQ.

This is simply my perspective playing in the NA afternoon/night time, but that doesn’t make me wrong about what happens at this time of day.

pot.6805:

BG won fair and square. Any wannabe pvper on BG will admit it.

ftfy

Fixeon.5076:

SoR and BG together? Yeah, that’ll happen.

SoR has not and will never set up any form of an alliance, even if you don’t want to call it that. Let alone with a server we have so much bad blood with. If that means that JQ takes first every week then so be it. Winning means nothing. We all know that coverage is king. Why should we care then if they win? It just means they have better coverage.

If we were to team up would be any better than them? They win because of coverage but we win because we 2 v 1? LoL no thanks. I would rather kill everything in sight and call it a win.

This post is also why SOR deserves to be in T1, and why I like them, and BG doesn’t. SOR want to fight, BG wants to 2v1 so they dont get kicked to T2.

No idea about night-capping, I don’t play NA prime time.

Reslinal.2359:

Well, seems the situation in T1 is doomed. Regardless if it’s BG or TC (if it moves up), they all have bad blood with SoR, which will make JQ happy…I guess the only solution is BG suddenly get all its burned out players back and push SoR to T2, ha!

There was never a bad blood between SoR and TC. I can say that any bad blood between SoR and BG would come from posts like these.

While I understand the OP’s concerns. When it’s all said and done who cares? Fact is all 3 belong in T1 and 1 server just so happens to be carried by their Asian crew, it’s all good.

Let them enjoy their virtual meaningless standings and their extra 4pct gathering buff…

Besides, what’s the hurry? it’s not like the servers are gonna shutdown next week with a grand prize at the end of the rainbow. I much prefer to have plenty red targets to play against and T1 supplies it 24/7.