Guild Wars 2

Kanebrake.6192:

Liston.9708:

displacedTitan.6897:

I am very excited for the nostalgia bubbles to burst when people realize how boring Alpine is to play on again.

So much this. Remember all th whines for new maps? Apparently others don’t remember them at all….

So much NOT this. A lot of people wanted new maps that were NOT like eotm and had less pve than alpine did. Then they gave us more pve in a map that was a lot like eotm. And that was only the beginning of the problems people had with desert bls. No one asked that the new map be filled with gimmicks, but that is what we got. So people legitimately complained because it was pretty much the opposite of what had been requested over the past 2.5-3 years.

many of those “pve” aspects were already removed (not fast enough), but the fact is WVW is back to summer 2015 when people were already leaving….. I don’t argue HOT did not help and accelerated the attrition, but it seems a lot of effort got us really no where. The reward tracks and auto loot are great, but does anyone think that has a serious lasting effect?

Personally I loved the look of the Desert Borderlands – the graphics were superb. The biggest problem with them though was that they were just too big.

The introduction of the old Alpine borderlands will highlight the opposite. With the server sharing, they’re too small.

Atm it looks like there is a massive turnover of keeps, camps etc dominated yet again, not by skill but by strength of numbers. Biggest zerg takes all. With the size of the zones its like a steamroller just rampaging through smaller guilds/groups.

Give it a few days and you’ll probably see most of the BL’s stagnated in the colour of the dominant server in the matchup.

There needs to be a fine tuning of the zones. Desert Borderlands needed some ability to move around the zones a little, albeit with a penalty for reuse – perhaps something like one way transporters with a resuse timer, whilst I think Alpine needs stronger walls/doors on the keeps and towers to slow down captures and allow counterattacks.

Xenesis.6389:

What they should have done from the beginning is made all maps like the ebg type

We don’t want 4 ebg map !
They have try this with DBL (remember, wp only available for 1 team) and it was a big fail !
We want Home BL ! Yes, something that is our home, to our team. If we want 3 side fight we go to EBG. But don’t destroy the Home BL idea, this is why lot of people fight on those map.

Aeolus.3615:

dank.3680:

I just want to point out that currently on Mag EBG is queued, the bl’s are dead save for a couple pvdooring ktrains.

This is the Alpine I remember, and why I didn’t want it back.

Players love pvd karma train, i think for many that equals a GG and skillfull play, reason most players might be want the pvd alpine bl….
Most players did not like the desert BL because they needed more effort.

GW2 is know to be a awfull pvp and wvw game, they take what they do….

GG Anet, another bad move, but skrits love it.

THIS.

Gideon.6742:

Lets cata double walls all day long map

Better than cata’ing a pointless north tower.

Also hilarious you guys are condemning alpine when it practically made it back into the game on a tuesday with no actual release date released beforehand, it’s the middle of EU prime right now where most servers NA don’t have a lot on so yeah they’re in ebg for fights. Oh yeah it’s a failure lets pack it up boys and bring back the desert.

Don’t worry Desert will be back, they’re not scrapping it, even made fixes to it as it rotated out lol.

TheGrimm.5624:

Josh XT.6053:

that was about 20 hours in desert BL

So you never took time to adapt and learn new tactics, got it. You could have just said that.

Oh that isn’t the case, I got plenty used to it. It didn’t make me like it though. Sure its pretty, but impractical. Its like dating a hot chick with aids. Pretty to look at, but what can you really do?

I spend my time in WvW roaming, it takes forever to get around the maps and we have to deal with the area that cripples you and makes huge rock formations jump out in front of you. Then to make it even worse? Blobs can be STEALTHED in that area ready to run over my small 5 man group lol.

Too many PvE aspects, maps are way too large and the whole center area is 100% useless. Desert BL was a failure, the minority of people who are complaining about losing it are not the majority of the population who requested the Alpine return. The numbers speak for themselves, since DBL came out, the WvW population dropped more than 50% of their players.

Svarty.8019:

…
The Alpine maps are too small, simple and boring.
…

Completely agreed. Sick and tired of ‘Infantile Mode’ in WvW. When they altered the desert maps, they may as well have put happy clouds that fart rainbows in it. Thanks whiner wimps.

With that said, it’s a rotation, not a replacement. I will be looking forward to when they rotate OUT these tired old alpine maps again.

ty anet for making wvw wvw again and not a pve circus anymore. alpine is simple and easy to get around and finally we can have endless hills,bay and garrison fights again and no i wont miss desert borderland.

migellito.7301:

Svarty.8019:

…
The Alpine maps are too small, simple and boring.
…

Completely agreed. Sick and tired of ‘Infantile Mode’ in WvW. When they altered the desert maps, they may as well have put happy clouds that fart rainbows in it. Thanks whiner wimps.

With that said, it’s a rotation, not a replacement. I will be looking forward to when they rotate OUT these tired old alpine maps again.

Thanks for bringing back the superior alpine BL. True wvw people appreciate your efforts on this. The pvd desert bl people are going to continue to whine and cry, but they just don’t know how to adapt.

See how easy it is to belittle the other map and those that like it.

My wife and I are so looking forward to playing alpine again. She stopped playing wvw because of the desert bl. I spent my time in EB (or the EB queue) since the desert bl was not fun to play on – at all. Again, thanks!

TheGrimm.5624:

Josh XT.6053:

that was about 20 hours in desert BL

So you never took time to adapt and learn new tactics, got it. You could have just said that.

^^^

…and people really do need to stop claiming those that do not agree with them are scrubs/pugs/not WvW players. Just let people know your opinion and accept there is not only one.

I wish they would put all the maps in together. One map Alpine. One DBL. Keep EB, and throw in EotM for the other. Why do we have to have 3 maps that are exactly the same?

4 different maps allows folks to play the maps they like. make everyone happy.

No thanks to dbl, just because it was new and shiny doesn’t mean its a better map for wvw and fighting. The layout of structures made them have no strategic value, and encouraged people to just bunker up everywhere.

I would rather have fun on a “tired old” map then find myself constantly annoyed on a shiny new one.

Thanks for bringing Alpine back.

@Gaile Speedy Yaks on them jogging yaks, funniest thing i seen in ages.

Josh XT.6053:

The numbers speak for themselves, since DBL came out, the WvW population dropped more than 50% of their players.

The DBL at that time were directly competing with ALL the new pve content, plus pvp leagues and eventually even the raids. Also Anybody wanting to upgrade their guild hall was doing the new pve stuff, so you can’t blame that map by itself because of the “numbers” just like holiday festivals come out and wvw activity lowers while people get the wintersday stuff or whatever, happens every time.

Okay but 7 months later the population is still down lol. And if you’re on Borlis Pass, you probably didn’t notice much of anything since it was pretty dead pre-HoT anyway. All of the Tier 1-4 servers felt it majorly.

Josh XT.6053:

Okay but 7 months later the population is still down lol. And if you’re on Borlis Pass, you probably didn’t notice much of anything since it was pretty dead pre-HoT anyway. All of the Tier 1-4 servers felt it majorly.

Many of us left right after HOT because nothing was done to revive WvW. None of the core problems were addressed and that kittened a lot of long-time faithful players off, myself included.

After 7k hours as a WvW-Only player I walked away from the game right after HOT, not because of the maps.

To clarify Rewards/Population rebalance/PPT issues addressed.. This is kitten that should have come with HOT as part of the upgrade.

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

Josh XT.6053:

The numbers speak for themselves, since DBL came out, the WvW population dropped more than 50% of their players.

The DBL at that time were directly competing with ALL the new pve content, plus pvp leagues and eventually even the raids. Also Anybody wanting to upgrade their guild hall was doing the new pve stuff, so you can’t blame that map by itself because of the “numbers” just like holiday festivals come out and wvw activity lowers while people get the wintersday stuff or whatever, happens every time.

Except that, well, we can blaim the map itself.

It was too wide, filled with pointless obstructions, annoying and buggy mechanics, terrain designed as a maze, huge and overcomplicated keeps, objectives that made absolutely no sense where they where located which was a departure from fundamental WvW design and they couldnt even position waypoints correct.

Desert 2.0 was a massive improvement that literally made us sigh in relief at something as simple as removed barricades, but it remain fundamentally flawed in its core keep and tower layout.

Sorry halo guild on SFR is going to EBG until there is active map-rotation, the map is exactly the same as the one we got bored with 2 years back, it has no added value atm. except for the new keep, tower and camp upgrade system.

If the change would be based on actively including more maps in WvW we would continiue to stay on the borderlands as for me now it is pointless.

Offensive potential has been reduced to offer zerg/blob warfare and perma-thief tagging a chance that is not an improvement, but a reduction of the offensive action diversity, map options and in my opinion a missed chance to make from change a ++ situation.

I wonder if 186 players start complaining wether to bring back Desert borderlands it would be a representative vote for Arena-Net to bring DBL back on the total amount of thousands of players representing WvW evry day.

I played Alpine 2,45 years after 5 minites of it i’m totally bored of the way it looks, it doesn’t offer anything new, it would work in a map-rotation but not as it is now.

So Angel Hearts Clan my guild will go EBG now.

Informing the Seafarers Rest server now

Take care :-)

This post is funny. Compared to the multiple forum topics with several pages of complaints in the DBL launch this outcry for bringing DBL back feels trolly. GG.

Josh XT.6053:

Okay but 7 months later the population is still down lol. And if you’re on Borlis Pass, you probably didn’t notice much of anything since it was pretty dead pre-HoT anyway. All of the Tier 1-4 servers felt it majorly.

Well isn’t that what the bottom line of this forum has been anyways? Compared to 7 months ago there’s less people…..compared to 1 year ago there’s less people, compared to 2 years ago…compared to release. This is nothing new to anybody on these forums but the desert maps were the first meaningful adjustment to WvW since EoTM(liked that map layout but NOT what it did to main WvW), but the general populace just didn’t like them. I feel like the desert borderlands are equivalent to chess where alpine is checkers, both games are fun but you have different levels of mastery(which is one reason why people were so bored with alpine, they knew it all for YEARS).
And yeah you know I’m on BP, and we actually had fights of all kinds, even against map queues thanks to Gaiscioch. I can say I preferred the ebb and flow of combat in those maps, but I’m just one person.

evry map poses its challenges, getting up to meet these challenges is part of WvW.

If you start setting the conditions of your own battlefield you play on or changing the map for your own purposes (wether they are selfish or not) you are wrong, instead of surmounting the difficulties you are changing the battlefield to be set to your own wishes, that doesn’t happen in real warfare. Why does it need to be like that in Gw 2, in my opinion, alot of players have forgotten that they needed time to explore Alpine aswell and to look at its benefits, opportunities and also on training players to be able to play it.

If you grow careless, or get stuck in old thinking you will never be able to face new challenges.

Sorry in my opinion most of the haters are just lazy and don’t want to follow the innovations to WvW, hence this back to the basics movement its so much easier is that not the fact?

Atm WvW isn’t about strategy or tactics just about who has the Bigger Blob or zerg.

Entered to the “new” Alpine and noticed in the minimap you can have 2 keeps, 2 towers and 2 camps.

Never felt Alpine was so small, but GG for the karma train “I need to flip a bl in 10 min” lovers…

Dawdler.8521:

Except that, well, we can blaim the map itself.

There is truth in that!
They were designed to hamper zergs while giving more of an edge to smaller more mobile groups(since zergs always get a tail), it’s just the fact that 90% of the player population were in those zergs that got lost. Like most Wvw types, those players came here to vent their frustration.

Rupture.7683:

This post is funny. Compared to the multiple forum topics with several pages of complaints in the DBL launch this outcry for bringing DBL back feels trolly. GG.

Very true but this forum is filled with rage from WvW’ers all over, we just don’t seem to be happy complacent types.

That being said though if they keep pushing in this strategically backwards map direction we’ll have a plain gray flat field with 3 veteran lords where the keeps used to be that are behind a fence that you can jump over.

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

Rupture.7683:

This post is funny. Compared to the multiple forum topics with several pages of complaints in the DBL launch this outcry for bringing DBL back feels trolly. GG.

Very true but this forum is filled with rage from WvW’ers all over, we just don’t seem to be happy complacent types.

That being said though if they keep pushing in this strategically backwards map direction we’ll have a plain gray flat field with 3 veteran lords where the keeps used to be that are behind a fence that you can jump over.

An exaggeration. However, in that example, why even have the NPCS at all?

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

That being said though if they keep pushing in this strategically backwards map direction we’ll have a plain gray flat field with 3 veteran lords where the keeps used to be that are behind a fence that you can jump over.

Hey, I think some of the sPvP team are in the WvW team now, maybe we can just replace the map with a copy of Courtyard and have everyone spawn in the middle of the circle.

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

Josh XT.6053:

Okay but 7 months later the population is still down lol. And if you’re on Borlis Pass, you probably didn’t notice much of anything since it was pretty dead pre-HoT anyway. All of the Tier 1-4 servers felt it majorly.

Well isn’t that what the bottom line of this forum has been anyways? Compared to 7 months ago there’s less people…..compared to 1 year ago there’s less people, compared to 2 years ago…compared to release. This is nothing new to anybody on these forums but the desert maps were the first meaningful adjustment to WvW since EoTM(liked that map layout but NOT what it did to main WvW), but the general populace just didn’t like them. I feel like the desert borderlands are equivalent to chess where alpine is checkers, both games are fun but you have different levels of mastery(which is one reason why people were so bored with alpine, they knew it all for YEARS).
And yeah you know I’m on BP, and we actually had fights of all kinds, even against map queues thanks to Gaiscioch. I can say I preferred the ebb and flow of combat in those maps, but I’m just one person.

My alt account is on BP to this day and I play it daily and BP was my first server. You don’t have to try to trick me into believing what I know isn’t true lol.

Yes population declines are natural, but we lost OVER 50% of the WvW population when HoT came out and never really gained any of it back in the past 7 months. Steady decline is to be expected, a 50% drop off is NOT GOOD. It happened for a reason, people haven’t been returning up until last week for a reason. The new maps ruined WvW for a lot of us veteran players who already didn’t care for playing in EBG.

I hope they bring back a Desert Borderlands map as one extra map besides eotm. Or that they make a nice pve map of it. Obviously a lot work went into it xD

Neither map was better or worse than the other. It was just different mechanics. On the Alpine you have very simple maps while on the other you have closer to real life war with different levels, what some of you call PvE I call closer to real life war. More tactics needed in the other map. More snipers.

its funny to see the ppl whose opinions were respected in the pro Alpine post have to come here and lower themselves to simple generalisation and trolling. Sad a waiste of time and effort :-) Arguments not sentiment told you that before:-) Btw are you a true-er player of WvW because of your attitude which is pro Alpine, who are you to discriminate amongst WvW players and say one groups opinion is better than the other groups opinion?

Thought you guys were more apt at discussing over an issue i’m kinda dissapointed

I am not nostalgic about Alpine, but I was one of those truly hoping for their return. Form has to follow function. DBL simply didn’t facilitate (in fact actively worked against) what I enjoy in WvW.

ie – I don’t care how pretty it is or isn’t. I care about what I can do with it.

If the others who missed Alpine were as bitter as I was over the Desert BL taking its place during HoT release, we have a REALLY good reason to be angry at anyone asking for it back.

We lost out on having our fun for 7 months because of this nearly unplayable map and there are people here crying about getting it back? No. We don’t want to even hear it because WE (the majority) were already screwed for 7 months.

Unfortunately, we are also aware that Anet plans to bring the DBL maps back at some point, which is a painful thing because we all know we have to take a break from the game again until they return the maps back to Alpine once again (because they don’t learn a lesson when 50% of their population leaves the game.)

A lot of people have returned to the game since it was announced that Alpine is coming back. Now that it is back, more will return. Once they put it back to DBL, most will leave again if not all and probably permanently this time.

I’ve played the ABL today and I’m so glad they are back. The freedom of navigation is a relief. I really don’t miss the DBL one bit.

Those who wanted Alpine BL back had to wait since HoT launched with no word from Anet about the maps until recently. After three months, they already said Desert BL is coming back, suck it up. I hope Anet is noting how reasonable of a bunch you are.

sorry after 5 minites of Alpine i had to VOMIT its exactly the same as 2 years back, except for new keep camp and tower mobs.

So i’ll stick to EBG.

As for being the majority that was done by 186 votes against 10,000 of happy careless WvW players who are you kidding here, you will have to do better don’t forget gw< 2 forum thats the place ppl go to to complain….

Simonoly.4352:

I’ll miss stealthy gank canyon which I think was probably one of the more interesting things introduced into WvW in its lifetime because it managed to get the ‘players acting as hazard’ thing just right.

This kind of gimmick is exactly what I hated about that map. Stealth is not welcome for me and it doesn’t promote fights. Just gank or avoid.

noooooooooooooooooooo pls no. As roamer i say no.

No reasonable and a way to the future would be a real map-rotation so you don’t need to play the same borderland evry time, but you all would rather have snow, blobs, zergs and perma-thiefs tagging on each borderland how is that improving the game.

You reduced the offensive options for the players that disagree with your vision.

If the players that love Desert Borderlands upgraded leave WvW or go EBG what you gonna do, when you loose half your WvW population?

How long is this group of players coming back to WvW gonna stay, how long till a game comes along that draws them away, once you loose your connection to a game like GW 2 its never the same when you come back.

So with all due respect do you really wish to rely on these players for a permanent stable future of WvW.

Whine about not being understood, say bringing back the old back, reverting the game, limiting the WvW options was the way forward?

Grow up instead of looking at your self interest look at the interest of the entire WvW population and give WvW a real chance and future before its too late.

Angel Heart.6739:

No reasonable and a way to the future would be a real map-rotation so you don’t need to play the same borderland evry time, but you all would rather have snow, blobs, zergs and perma-thiefs tagging on each borderland how is that improving the game.

You reduced the offensive options for the players that disagree with your vision.

If the players that love Desert Borderlands upgraded leave WvW or go EBG what you gonna do, when you loose half your WvW population?

How long is this group of players coming back to WvW gonna stay, how long till a game comes along that draws them away, once you loose your connection to a game like GW 2 its never the same when you come back.

So with all due respect do you really wish to rely on these players for a permanent stable future of WvW.

Whine about not being understood, say bringing back the old back, reverting the game, limiting the WvW options was the way forward?

Grow up instead of looking at your self interest look at the interest of the entire WvW population and give WvW a real chance and future before its too late.

What do you hate about ABL if I may ask?

You seem to allude that blob, zerg and stealth is a bad thing, and I would agree most of the time, but I really don’t see how the DBL was better in that regard. In fact, at least for stealth it was worst by far since you had access to gimmick stealth for all. I also never saw more or less zerg there… so I wonder where is the basis of your rant…

floude.5291:

noooooooooooooooooooo pls no. As roamer i say no.

Yeah, let those PU condi mesmers keep flooding back.
In all seriousness though, these borders are less complicated, lots of open field and no excessive elevation, which is good for a steady flow of fights, but too easy to ktrain the border when no ones around, scoring needs a fix.

Korgov.7645:

The Alpine borderland is about the same size as the Desert borderland.

The Alpine towers are closer to center and there are large areas wasted in the south and in the northern corners of the map. Also the citadel takes up lot of space in the Alpine map.

Nope, it isn’t the same size. It is the same size if you are looking at breath X length but you forgot there is height as well. Desert borderland “largeness” comes from its multiple layers of surfaces and different segments of cliffs which therefore increased the running distance between one point to another. Which is why desert borderland is called “complicated” on first impression.

It is important to note that excessive running is a waste of time and nobody like excessive running.

I’ve already gotten better fights on the alpine bls then I did on the desert ones since xpac. They need to come up with a new map yes but in the meantime I would much rather enjoy myself on old content then quit the game because I’m forced to play on EB since I don’t love the parkour or the emptiness. The desert bls made a lot of people quit along with some other not so good moves. They’re on the right track but the movement to bring back the desert bls should just stop unless you want the game to stay dead.

Only way the desert bl will work is if it replaces EB. The desert bls need a lot of people for it to be a good map. 3 of them is a bad idea but 1 might be worth playing.

Angel Heart.6739:

Grow up instead of looking at your self interest look at the interest of the entire WvW population and give WvW a real chance and future before its too late.

Take your own advise. The majority of the population prefers the alpine bl. It was designed with WvW play in mind, where as the desert bl was designed to look interesting with no thought to function.

Today I watched a server trying to zerg around the map like they did on the desert bl and they were getting completely destroyed by all the roamers and havoc groups flipping things around them and picking away at their tail. When it comes to which map is better for small groups there is no competition, alpine wins hands down. Having a map that encourages solo/small group play gives people something to do while they wait for their friends to log on and join them. This is what keeps WvW alive.

LuMai.5034:

(…)
Only way the desert bl will work is if it replaces EB. The desert bls need a lot of people for it to be a good map. 3 of them is a bad idea but 1 might be worth playing.

That would be a interesting move but changing/editing the Desert map to replace EB, that means redesign alot fo that map, i hardly see it happening.

Besides, player love EB and ABL because they easily hide on closest tower or hide spamming trebs from tower to castle, or blob it easily, making DBL and easy map would be a bad thing, altough i always felt Desert BL neede some good editing to became a very good map.

Long live the Alpine Borderlands!!!!!!!! (Thank you Anet!)

Angel Heart.6739:

Sorry halo guild on SFR is going to EBG until there is active map-rotation, the map is exactly the same as the one we got bored with 2 years back, it has no added value atm. except for the new keep, tower and camp upgrade system.

If the change would be based on actively including more maps in WvW we would continiue to stay on the borderlands as for me now it is pointless.

Offensive potential has been reduced to offer zerg/blob warfare and perma-thief tagging a chance that is not an improvement, but a reduction of the offensive action diversity, map options and in my opinion a missed chance to make from change a ++ situation.

I wonder if 186 players start complaining wether to bring back Desert borderlands it would be a representative vote for Arena-Net to bring DBL back on the total amount of thousands of players representing WvW evry day.

I played Alpine 2,45 years after 5 minites of it i’m totally bored of the way it looks, it doesn’t offer anything new, it would work in a map-rotation but not as it is now.

So Angel Hearts Clan my guild will go EBG now.

Informing the Seafarers Rest server now

Take care :-)

who?

@Angel Heart.6739:, No internal comms or temporary TS cross server??? o.O

NO NO NO NO!!!!
Keep Alpine!!

So much better than DBL!

Thank you Anet for finally bringing this back!

The “simple” idea of the Alpine BLs is what people like. The Alpine BLs cater to more skilled groups who don’t like the idea of relying on cheese tactics and choke fights. The dessert BLs brought both of these things with more chokes then I can count and things like mass stealth/aoe cripple ect. These things also give way to siege being more destructive and it really ruined the fun for a large portion of the people who played the game.

I really can’t find a downside to bringing back the Alpine BLs. The BLs were always typically the place where skilled guild groups went to escape the pugs of ebg anyways so I think Anet is completely justified in catering towards them here. I honestly can’t wait to log on to REAL fights in the BLs tonight. If someone can give a real reason as to why this change is bad other than “Alpine BLs are boring” I would love to hear it.

The idea of skill-full game play on this game is quite funny, no wonder the views are low.

Both maps have issues, just diferent, the diference of DBL and ABL is that alpine is very low effort map, easy to cross, more easy pvd, broken trebs on spawn for easy re cap ot close towers etc..

I think Alpine to be introduced to the game needed to be changed a bit, it is a very nooby vanilla map, not saying desert bl was better either, but the desert map had much more potential to be a very decent map than alpine.