Guild Wars 2

casantis.3106:

Well, i don´t like DBL, i don´t want to play in them if they rotate with ABL. Was just an idea, but is better if DBL don´t come back.

Or Anet could create an environment where everyone has maps that interest them. Right now we have 2 maps at a time. Why? And since some maps like EB always has queues, what might help that?

But if they let you choose the map, the DBL will be deserted… the minority likes them.

Let Desert map be a PVE map so next PVE event they do they can use that map, it have nothing to do in WvWvW.

A note to the WvW devs. You guys are doing great. You might get a bad rap, but people don’t go to reddit/forums to give praise very often, so you end up with mostly complaints from people who haven’t designed a thing in their life, much less a massive game mode. I’ll admit I stopped playing for about 2 months before the April update because the game was in a stale place, but since then, we have massive fights in t3 through t1 every night, and WvW constantly has queues.

There is always room for improvements, but good work so far

casantis.3106:

But if they let you choose the map, the DBL will be deserted… the minority likes them.

Honestly I doubt many people ever gave the map a chance. It was being bagged on when they did the beta for desert and the maps were empty because apparently only a small portion of the invites went out. And necro and a few other classes had crazy bugs show up during the beta and seeing how popular the well build was at the time the first time you used shroud making all utilities go away for the rest of the match was serious.

Ever since then desert has had a bad rep and that was before the masses got to it. They heard it was bad and they believed it. Not that the oasis bugs helped either.

Simply put unless you were playing desert in its final form those 10 days before rediculously tiny alpine returned people shouldn’t bash desert. Desert may not be ideal but I like it far more than the stumble upon tactics of alpine

Teraphas.6210:

casantis.3106:

But if they let you choose the map, the DBL will be deserted… the minority likes them.

Honestly I doubt many people ever gave the map a chance. It was being bagged on when they did the beta for desert and the maps were empty because apparently only a small portion of the invites went out. And necro and a few other classes had crazy bugs show up during the beta and seeing how popular the well build was at the time the first time you used shroud making all utilities go away for the rest of the match was serious.

Ever since then desert has had a bad rep and that was before the masses got to it. They heard it was bad and they believed it. Not that the oasis bugs helped either.

Simply put unless you were playing desert in its final form those 10 days before rediculously tiny alpine returned people shouldn’t bash desert. Desert may not be ideal but I like it far more than the stumble upon tactics of alpine

2+

Teraphas.6210:

casantis.3106:

But if they let you choose the map, the DBL will be deserted… the minority likes them.

Honestly I doubt many people ever gave the map a chance. It was being bagged on when they did the beta for desert and the maps were empty because apparently only a small portion of the invites went out. And necro and a few other classes had crazy bugs show up during the beta and seeing how popular the well build was at the time the first time you used shroud making all utilities go away for the rest of the match was serious.

Ever since then desert has had a bad rep and that was before the masses got to it. They heard it was bad and they believed it. Not that the oasis bugs helped either.

Simply put unless you were playing desert in its final form those 10 days before rediculously tiny alpine returned people shouldn’t bash desert. Desert may not be ideal but I like it far more than the stumble upon tactics of alpine

You’re basically describing me as a player. I got into HoT around half a year after it was released, and the few times I hopped onto the DBLs they were completely dead. The only time I got to play them was right after the April update, when WvW was revitalized and people didn’t want to wait for EBG queue.

My impression was that they were too vertical and too spacious. Common complaints, and not inherently bad, but it seemed like arbitrary and exaggerated design rather than anything focused on creating dynamic combat.

Or maybe there were people who saw the previews and were immediately leery of the seemingly overdone platforms and winding pathways only to actually play on the maps and had their fears confirmed.

I keep hearing so many of the pro DBL arguments desperately trying to dress up the PvD pig in a party dress to veil that fact that some people just want to be able to safely PvE for points on a PvP map. If you’re getting run over by zergs on ABL then pay attention, string them out and pick off the overextending heroes. People have been successfully doing that for years so that’s on you. I’d rather get flattened by a blob and run back on ABL than get PvE punted off a cliff and parkour my way back on DBL.

Or maybe some people like me have play on the new map and hate them ?
I have learn the map, play on the map, but I don’t like to play here… I play on DBL to play with my server, nothing more… But I have stop for month… And I will probably stop again when DBL will come back.

There is so much thing who are bad on that map… Just seach on this forum, no need to add more post about that.

This thread should now be locked (half joking). It just goes round and round and round the same old stuff again and again! I think ANet have got “the message”, whatever it might be. The DBLs will either return or they won’t, in the same state or different, frequently or infrequently. We can start a new pair of hater threads when we know their plan.

This thread shows that there are people that feel strongly about maps in general. Nothing wrong with that in a general sense since it shows that people like to WvW.

Yeah, I’m not being too serious! Just my way of saying I’m not going to keep posting the same stuff in response to others posting the same stuff any more. Many will be pleased I’m sure!

I just want to say that I miss DBL. ABL looks like Warhammer Diskwars game (photo in attachments) which sucks. Its flat, boring, and there is no adventure, nor the strategy based combat. I think that some of wvw players would be happy if they could just fight against zerg on small, empty square.
By the way anet devs: you are great and I love you guys

I want DBL back. I have played enough on the old ABL and shes flat, small and boring. DBL was a part from the HoT Addon that i liked to play, and i really wants it back. For me, the change to ABL is a downgrade. I think its not fair now.

Vote for Desert Borderlands.

Substance E.4852:

TallBarr.2184:

Desert border was the superior map for fighting.

I honestly can’t tell if you’re a troll or just have no idea what you are talking about.

@Tall, dont say desert is better, they cant do easy pvd there, they need to walk more there and most did not even bother to see the easy acapture spots., i think that is what wvwrs do in alpine right?

ive seen blobs quitting empty towers on desert cause was taking a bit longer…. so much fight
iand on the alpine blobs dropping cause there was one defender, i was in a normal ac doing 300 damage to playe and 100 to superior ram there was 3 rams, they dropped the tower.

Being desert or alpine the result is the same, it is not a map issue…..

DESERT BLs SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fistarius.2496:

DESERT BLs SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes we know, harder do karma train, we all know it, and empty towers are harder to get. we all know that also.

Funny that is the only answer alpine easy train lovers can say from desert bl.

Altough the best option is to make both maps avaliable at same time.
Also both alpine and desert need some changes.

Based on the other thread Tyler indicated they might be open to a mix of borderlands, so that there are options for both sides. I think this would also give them a better picture of how many players play on each map which can be used to quantify things better. Keep an eye out for a new WvW poll.

Again, don’t want anyone to be locked out of maps when they rotate so to me a mix keeps more people in play over the long run.

Ardhiel.8531:

I just want to say that I miss DBL. ABL looks like Warhammer Diskwars game (photo in attachments) which sucks. Its flat, boring, and there is no adventure, nor the strategy based combat. I think that some of wvw players would be happy if they could just fight against zerg on small, empty square.
By the way anet devs: you are great and I love you guys

Why do you think almost every popular multiplayer combat game is based what is often short and precise matches over a small area?

Alpine could use some paint work to bring it up to par with modern GW2 (all the vanilla maps look bland compared to the later generation), but its actually not that flat. Hell, it even offer more height levels than desert when you look at some details. Where on desert was it common on fight on 3 height levels at a choke? Oasis? HA! Dont make me laugh. The difference is that alpine use it in moderation which most of us love. Desert took it over the top and still managed to do it far worse.

Just an idea,
What if they fixed up DBL and made it a little more bearable. Gliding in the open area spaces, no gliding near towers or keeps. Just polished it up and made it enjoyable.

Create another map

Make Red Server = DBL for their Border Lands
Make Blue Server = New Map for their Border Lands
Make Green Server = Alpine for their Borderlands

EB stays EB

Best of all case scenario. Your literally have a pick and chose situation. If you like Alpine and you’re red one week, go play on Alpine and help your server in points.

Wolfey.3407:

Just an idea,
What if they fixed up DBL and made it a little more bearable. Gliding in the open area spaces, no gliding near towers or keeps. Just polished it up and made it enjoyable.

Create another map

Make Red Server = DBL for their Border Lands
Make Blue Server = New Map for their Border Lands
Make Green Server = Alpine for their Borderlands

EB stays EB

Best of all case scenario. Your literally have a pick and chose situation. If you like Alpine and you’re red one week, go play on Alpine and help your server in points.

Problem with your idea is that there are a lot of players like myself and my guild who literally only play on Alpine. We didn’t really care for EBG pre-HOT but only played there because it was significantly better than DBL when DBL was around. Whatever map is Alpine would be queued all the time, which would irritate me if my guild and I are stuck waiting in queue to play the only map I care for.

Onyziphel.9037:

I want DBL back. I have played enough on the old ABL and shes flat, small and boring. DBL was a part from the HoT Addon that i liked to play, and i really wants it back. For me, the change to ABL is a downgrade. I think its not fair now.

Vote for Desert Borderlands.

Silverwaste is a better version of desert borderlands. In fact, the wvw equivalent is called EOTM. DBL is as dead as a cemetery with a few lingering spirits.

Wolfey.3407:

Just an idea,
What if they fixed up DBL and made it a little more bearable. Gliding in the open area spaces, no gliding near towers or keeps. Just polished it up and made it enjoyable.

Create another map

Make Red Server = DBL for their Border Lands
Make Blue Server = New Map for their Border Lands
Make Green Server = Alpine for their Borderlands

EB stays EB

Best of all case scenario. Your literally have a pick and chose situation. If you like Alpine and you’re red one week, go play on Alpine and help your server in points.

With gliding DBL is bearable. It’s just used for guild missions since nobody will bother you.

Josh XT.6053:

Wolfey.3407:

Just an idea,
What if they fixed up DBL and made it a little more bearable. Gliding in the open area spaces, no gliding near towers or keeps. Just polished it up and made it enjoyable.

Create another map

Make Red Server = DBL for their Border Lands
Make Blue Server = New Map for their Border Lands
Make Green Server = Alpine for their Borderlands

EB stays EB

Best of all case scenario. Your literally have a pick and chose situation. If you like Alpine and you’re red one week, go play on Alpine and help your server in points.

Problem with your idea is that there are a lot of players like myself and my guild who literally only play on Alpine. We didn’t really care for EBG pre-HOT but only played there because it was significantly better than DBL when DBL was around. Whatever map is Alpine would be queued all the time, which would irritate me if my guild and I are stuck waiting in queue to play the only map I care for.

It’s a valid point; however, couldn’t you flip the argument around?
Guild X is only playing in EB because Alpine is too small or too boring looking for them? on FA/BP atm, there is a queue for EB so Guild X has to wait atm.

Wolfey.3407:

Josh XT.6053:

Wolfey.3407:

Just an idea,
What if they fixed up DBL and made it a little more bearable. Gliding in the open area spaces, no gliding near towers or keeps. Just polished it up and made it enjoyable.

Create another map

Make Red Server = DBL for their Border Lands
Make Blue Server = New Map for their Border Lands
Make Green Server = Alpine for their Borderlands

EB stays EB

Best of all case scenario. Your literally have a pick and chose situation. If you like Alpine and you’re red one week, go play on Alpine and help your server in points.

Problem with your idea is that there are a lot of players like myself and my guild who literally only play on Alpine. We didn’t really care for EBG pre-HOT but only played there because it was significantly better than DBL when DBL was around. Whatever map is Alpine would be queued all the time, which would irritate me if my guild and I are stuck waiting in queue to play the only map I care for.

It’s a valid point; however, couldn’t you flip the argument around?
Guild X is only playing in EB because Alpine is too small or too boring looking for them? on FA/BP atm, there is a queue for EB so Guild X has to wait atm.

You could flip the argument around, but it would be silly to do so. The population numbers of DBL vs ABL don’t lie. EBG was queued worse when DBL was around. On blackgate, a significantly higher population server – all alpine maps had higher queue than EBG every day since Alpine returned.

It’s been discussed over and over again, there isn’t a 3rd map option for homebl right now, and it would take them at least another year to make one. 1 Desert BL and 2 Alpine is the best solution for “right now”. Everyone gets access to the map they want, if you don’t like one play on the other.

P.S Never seen any borderlands have a higher queue than ebg, must be a BG only thing.

casantis.3106:

But if they let you choose the map, the DBL will be deserted… the minority likes them.

Exactly, curious what anet will do. That DBL will deter even more wvw players. I’m guessing they’ll see a significant % drop in player time in wvw if they go back. Not a smart move.

Xenesis.6389:

It’s been discussed over and over again, there isn’t a 3rd map option for homebl right now, and it would take them at least another year to make one.

I’ve heard that, but I don’t believe it. There is a lot of testing required but most of DBL used existing art assets from HoT, with a few exceptions particularly in structure walls.
Similarly it would be possible to do the majority of layout work for an Ascalon / woodland themed map pretty quickly, giving a third BL with a very distinct theme, but for which art assets already exist.

Could even use existing camp, tower and keep assets from Alpine and leave bespoke versions for a later release. WvW players aren’t going to be offended.

They mentioned it when they were making eotm that it took them over a year to make it. I don’t know if they have a bigger wvw staff or more resources around these days but that’s the benchmark they gave. Maybe that was a case of them wanting to provide 3 distinct areas which took them longer to build it.

Maps reuse assets, that’s a given. I wouldn’t even mind if they took the pve maps and converted them to wvw maps, I think that would cool especially if it’s something that provide more maps for wvw on a shorter development time. But Anet prefers building new stuff from the ground up. Hell I wouldn’t even mind if they took ebg and alpine and made them into different themes, maybe even give a spring/summer/fall/winter update.

They have a lot on their plate these days, not even sure if they are even planning on another map, last one didn’t go over so well and is still being fixed.

P.S I would love to have more maps for options, I’m just staying away from those solutions because it will be some time before it happens. So stuff like extra bl or ebg with another theme, those are long term wishful thinking right now and stuff we can bring up when they actually have the extra maps.

The best solution for right now is what Tyler mentioned, 1 desert, 2 alpine, 1 ebg. Everyone gets the map they want every day, if the need for 2 desert 1 alpine comes it can easily be dealt with later.

EotM was built with A LOT of new art, so I can believe that would take a while. DBL had considerably less, and I’m suggesting they don’t need to have much at all.

Teraphas.6210:

casantis.3106:

But if they let you choose the map, the DBL will be deserted… the minority likes them.

Honestly I doubt many people ever gave the map a chance. It was being bagged on when they did the beta for desert and the maps were empty because apparently only a small portion of the invites went out. And necro and a few other classes had crazy bugs show up during the beta and seeing how popular the well build was at the time the first time you used shroud making all utilities go away for the rest of the match was serious.

Ever since then desert has had a bad rep and that was before the masses got to it. They heard it was bad and they believed it. Not that the oasis bugs helped either.

Simply put unless you were playing desert in its final form those 10 days before rediculously tiny alpine returned people shouldn’t bash desert. Desert may not be ideal but I like it far more than the stumble upon tactics of alpine

Not because they’ve heard it was bad and believed it. IT IS JUST A BAD MAP

How are the queues looking for everybody nowadays? Seems most of the hype of both Alpine maps and wvw rewards have cooled down a bit, as I type this for FA/BP there’s no queue on a single wvw map.

Desert borderlands didn’t strictly break the “waiting to have fun” rule, but if you were in the wrong position you could find yourself running long distances to try and get to the fun. Aside from the navigation issues though I quite liked it, and Alpine seems pretty bland afterwards. Stick with the plan to rotate them I say.

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

How are the queues looking for everybody nowadays? Seems most of the hype of both Alpine maps and wvw rewards have cooled down a bit, as I type this for FA/BP there’s no queue on a single wvw map.

I’m on BG. There are still queues.

gennyt.3428:

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

How are the queues looking for everybody nowadays? Seems most of the hype of both Alpine maps and wvw rewards have cooled down a bit, as I type this for FA/BP there’s no queue on a single wvw map.

I’m on BG. There are still queues.

NSP rare queue on eb never other bl’s, duno how is on reset….

Dawdler.8521:

Ardhiel.8531:

I just want to say that I miss DBL. ABL looks like Warhammer Diskwars game (photo in attachments) which sucks. Its flat, boring, and there is no adventure, nor the strategy based combat. I think that some of wvw players would be happy if they could just fight against zerg on small, empty square.
By the way anet devs: you are great and I love you guys

Why do you think almost every popular multiplayer combat game is based what is often short and precise matches over a small area?

Let me think – do we have any mode of game in GW2 with short precise matches over a small area? Yes and it is called PVP, not WvWvW

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

How are the queues looking for everybody nowadays? Seems most of the hype of both Alpine maps and wvw rewards have cooled down a bit, as I type this for FA/BP there’s no queue on a single wvw map.

T3, SBI: EBG queues. Rare queues on 1 ABL when EBG zerg jumps back and fourth.

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

How are the queues looking for everybody nowadays? Seems most of the hype of both Alpine maps and wvw rewards have cooled down a bit, as I type this for FA/BP there’s no queue on a single wvw map.

I usually play in the evenings. There’re queues of 10-20 ppl in only 2 on 3 BL. Yet, even if it’s that much, it’s not a long wait to get in : something around 15 minutes… Oh wait ! Could it be ppl wait for tick before leaving ?

Anyway, at like 10PM, no queue on any map, and only 2 blobs running here and there…

So I agree with the fact the hype is down.

omg what noob wants those maps back no one played them (no one, in terms of comparing it to now)

How about the take the DBL and leave the topology and simply change it to a snowscape or a green jungle. Anything but a freak’n desert.

I consider the DBL failing like “BvS” failed. The general public doesn’t like dour, it doesn’t like goth, and sure as heck doesn’t like the desert.

TheGrimm.5624:

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

How are the queues looking for everybody nowadays? Seems most of the hype of both Alpine maps and wvw rewards have cooled down a bit, as I type this for FA/BP there’s no queue on a single wvw map.

T3, SBI: EBG queues. Rare queues on 1 ABL when EBG zerg jumps back and fourth.

About the same for SoS/GoM, it seems things have calmed down to just one queue on a map, mostly EBG but sometimes one of the BLs if the zerg hops over.

Yeah I have to say good riddance to the DBL, Those maps were always empty, well, 90% of the time. Now WvW is revitalized and all maps have huge populations again. I think they could bring them back but with major modifications. Remove the oasis and shrink the maps down some, then get rid of some of that verticality, its just not condusive to fighting in this game, the skills are to limited by terrain and it did nothing but propagate the pirate ship meta.

TheGrimm.5624:

casantis.3106:

Well, i don´t like DBL, i don´t want to play in them if they rotate with ABL. Was just an idea, but is better if DBL don´t come back.

Or Anet could create an environment where everyone has maps that interest them. Right now we have 2 maps at a time. Why? And since some maps like EB always has queues, what might help that?

That only works if there is no score. Otherwise you create a situation of people getting to play what they consider a broken game mode all the time. AT least with rotation they get to play a whole game part of the time rather than part of a game the entire time. I will take the whole game if forced, but the truth is bringing back something so unliked at all is going to run people off again. It already brought back thousands of players to bring back Alpine, all you do by bringing back DBLs at all is make them not want to play again.

If the people playing the DBL don’t care about the score, they should just put it in EoTM anyhow then.

Players who play for the score need to be able to hop to any map to hit any target at any time or be able to hop to any map to defend any target at any time. IF the targets being hit are on the DBL , guess what? Same problem as before they brought back Alpine.. Players wont go because they think the maps suck resulting in a " broken " game mode.

Dark.7235:

Yeah I have to say good riddance to the DBL, Those maps were always empty, well, 90% of the time. Now WvW is revitalized and all maps have huge populations again. I think they could bring them back but with major modifications. Remove the oasis and shrink the maps down some, then get rid of some of that verticality, its just not condusive to fighting in this game, the skills are to limited by terrain and it did nothing but propagate the pirate ship meta.

The keeps need to be redesigned as well. They are terrible. However, I still think that is shortchanging players as they deserve to have maps designed from the ground up that are focused on keeping players in nonstop PvP action that well utilizes their skills. Right now some classes still are unplayable on them due to not even being able to use their skills due to the topography and they are trying to fix something bad to make it " playable" vs designing it with playablity from the start. Players deserve to have maps that they want to play rather than maps that are just " playable… but" To bring players to the game mode the maps should be great, not just " oh well, I can make do."

DeWolfe.2174:

How about the take the DBL and leave the topology and simply change it to a snowscape or a green jungle. Anything but a freak’n desert.

I consider the DBL failing like “BvS” failed. The general public doesn’t like dour, it doesn’t like goth, and sure as heck doesn’t like the desert.

The topolgy is the number one complaint though. Players do not want the vertical additions. They need to design a wvw map from the ground up really focused on bringing players together and keeping them in combat instead. No more than a few seconds between objectives and make the objectives worth fighting for encouraging nonstop PvP action. Right now the topology even prevents some classes from even being playable on them because they cannot even use all their skills due to the terrain.

The terrain should be meant to make game play better, not preventing people from playing some classes on it all. There is so much that has to be resolved, the idea of " let’s make this work" is really still a bad choice since it is not designed that way from the start instead of trying to fix the millions of things wrong with it.

lil devils x.6071:

That only works if there is no score. Otherwise you create a situation of people getting to play what they consider a broken game mode all the time. AT least with rotation they get to play a whole game part of the time rather than part of a game the entire time. I will take the whole game if forced, but the truth is bringing back something so unliked at all is going to run people off again.

Based on all the other threads I think you are solo on this one, or at least based on people that post. I think a rotation will/is moving people away already. And based on your statements alone, when the rotation moves back to DBL we lose people. I already know people that are only queuing EBG while ABL is up, they were tired of those maps already. People new to the game were asking in server TS what was up with the map change and why the restrictions. So why not a mix so that there is variety for both sides. Don’t give me this limited game play, if that was a case they will be out of game during each quarter already. And not seeing a queue increase since the ABL was added in T3 or T2 but in fact a decrease for whatever reason. So if we had drawn in thousands, where are they? All in T1?

TheGrimm.5624:

lil devils x.6071:

That only works if there is no score. Otherwise you create a situation of people getting to play what they consider a broken game mode all the time. AT least with rotation they get to play a whole game part of the time rather than part of a game the entire time. I will take the whole game if forced, but the truth is bringing back something so unliked at all is going to run people off again.

Based on all the other threads I think you are solo on this one, or at least based on people that post. I think a rotation will/is moving people away already. And based on your statements alone, when the rotation moves back to DBL we lose people. I already know people that are only queuing EBG while ABL is up, they were tired of those maps already. People new to the game were asking in server TS what was up with the map change and why the restrictions. So why not a mix so that there is variety for both sides. Don’t give me this limited game play, if that was a case they will be out of game during each quarter already. And not seeing a queue increase since the ABL was added in T3 or T2 but in fact a decrease for whatever reason. So if we had drawn in thousands, where are they? All in T1?

^scrolls back* This thread is full o people who do not want DBL back… Wonders how I am alone in thinking they do not want DBL back* lol

EBG was always queued even when we had Alpine the first time, that was nothing new. The difference is we ALSO have queues on the ABLs. HOWEVER, here is something I think you are missing. I want new maps, like most do. Most just do not want THOSE MAPS. Those maps in particular were designed poorly and players cannot even use their skills on much of the map due to the bad topography rendering some classes pretty unplayable in areas. I think you are not understanding that players have wanted new maps, they LOVE new stuff when it is good. Those just were not good.

People who think that players didn’t like the new maps because they didn’t want new stuff are terribly mistaken. Players just didn’t want BAD stuff. Instead of trying to fix a broken map to make it " playable" they need to design a map from the ground up with playable as the focus. If they focus on keeping players engaged in nonstop PvP combat (All players not just those who can actually use all their skills on the terrain) with easy to access direct routes terrain with only a few seconds between objectives and a reason to fight over the objectives it should be a good WvW map.

The problem that should be understood is that bringing back alpine was only supposed to be making the game playable at all WHILE THEY WAIT for Anet to actually make good maps they should have made in the first place. Players being bored with the maps is in no relation to actually wanting to play on the DBL’s, they have been wanting good maps for a while and were pretty kittened off to receive the Pve gimmicky DBL’s instead of a good map. YES, we have seen a Queue increase in T2 and T3 for ABLs. I have many fiends who have come back to the game just because they brought them back hoping this means Anet is finally listening. They happen to be playing in T2 and T3 with me and yes, on the Alpines. You need to check your numbers, as there are far more playing the ABL than the DBL.

Just look through this thread, still looks like most do not want them back EVEN in the Bring DBL back thread. LOL

You think you are arguing for new vs the same, that is not even the argument. The argument is bad maps vs great maps, and players not willing to settle for bad maps. Many players want them to not use DBL at all and make better maps instead. People were excited to hear that we were getting great new maps and they are still waiting for that to happen. Anet has to make them first, because DBLs were the opposite of “great”.

IN ADDITION: YES limited game play. If the scouts refuse to scout them and the players refuse to go there to defend them, they should not be in play at all IF you want those players to play the game that is. You seem to be okay with telling them to go play another game instead because they don’t want to play what they see as a broken game mode if the DBls are present.

They already addressed the issue of unhappiness with HoT:

GW2:
Effect of HoT launch continued.
The performance of HoT was not as expected. We have taken that as a lesson. A second expansion is in work and will be released as soon as possible.
The contribution of item sales to the total sales is much stronger than the box sales. The revenue will weaken over time. The second expansion should address this fact. They rephrased that they plan to launch that expansion soon instead of as soon as possible.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4j3ntv/ncsofts_earnings_report_1q16_strong_performance/

lil devils x.6071:

TheGrimm.5624:

lil devils x.6071:

That only works if there is no score. Otherwise you create a situation of people getting to play what they consider a broken game mode all the time. AT least with rotation they get to play a whole game part of the time rather than part of a game the entire time. I will take the whole game if forced, but the truth is bringing back something so unliked at all is going to run people off again.

Based on all the other threads I think you are solo on this one, or at least based on people that post. I think a rotation will/is moving people away already. And based on your statements alone, when the rotation moves back to DBL we lose people. I already know people that are only queuing EBG while ABL is up, they were tired of those maps already. People new to the game were asking in server TS what was up with the map change and why the restrictions. So why not a mix so that there is variety for both sides. Don’t give me this limited game play, if that was a case they will be out of game during each quarter already. And not seeing a queue increase since the ABL was added in T3 or T2 but in fact a decrease for whatever reason. So if we had drawn in thousands, where are they? All in T1?

^scrolls back* This thread is full o people who do not want DBL back… Wonders how I am alone in thinking they do not want DBL back* lol

EBG was always queued even when we had Alpine the first time, that was nothing new. The difference is we ALSO have queues on the ABLs. HOWEVER, here is something I think you are missing. I want new maps, like most do. Most just do not want THOSE MAPS. Those maps in particular were designed poorly and players cannot even use their skills on much of the map due to the bad topography rendering some classes pretty unplayable in areas. I think you are not understanding that players have wanted new maps, they LOVE new stuff when it is good. Those just were not good.

People who think that players didn’t like the new maps because they didn’t want new stuff are terribly mistaken. Players just didn’t want BAD stuff. Instead of trying to fix a broken map to make it " playable" they need to design a map from the ground up with playable as the focus. If they focus on keeping players engaged in nonstop PvP combat (All players not just those who can actually use all their skills on the terrain) with easy to access direct routes terrain with only a few seconds between objectives and a reason to fight over the objectives it should be a good WvW map.

The problem that should be understood is that bringing back alpine was only supposed to be making the game playable at all WHILE THEY WAIT for Anet to actually make good maps they should have made in the first place. Players being bored with the maps is in no relation to actually wanting to play on the DBL’s, they have been wanting good maps for a while and were pretty kittened off to receive the Pve gimmicky DBL’s instead of a good map. YES, we have seen a Queue increase in T2 and T3 for ABLs. I have many fiends who have come back to the game just because they brought them back hoping this means Anet is finally listening. They happen to be playing in T2 and T3 and yes, on the Alpines. You need to check your numbers.

Just look through this thread, still looks like most do not want them back EVEN in the Bring DBL back thread. LOL

You think you are arguing for new vs the same, that is not even the argument. The argument is bad maps vs great maps, and players not willing to settle for bad maps. Many players want them to not use DBL at all and make better maps instead. People were excited to hear that we were getting great new maps and they are still waiting for that to happen. Anet has to make them first, because DBLs were the opposite of “great”.

IN ADDITION: YES limited game play. If the scouts refuse to scout them and the players refuse to go there to defend them, they should not be in play at all IF you want those players to play the game that is. You seem to be okay with telling them to go play another game instead because they don’t want to play what they see as a broken game mode if the DBls are present.

Maybe beaquse the people who use this forum and make their voice heard are kids who go to preschool and cant adapt to changes? You say DBL is broken, yet we have alpine with invurnerable trebs in spawn. Kids say the positioning of the dbl north towers got irrelevant strategic position, yet we have alpine where you can place trebs to pressure the northern keeps inside your spawn. Talk about broken map.

Bay- 80% water, underwater combat gg, disengage and swim away like a mermaid or salmon when you about to lose a fight, so gud ayelmao.

Ruins- the most useless structure in wvw that none gives a coke about, it just stands there, being the useless structure it is, when do fights pan out over the ruins? never. People cry about pve in wvw yet u dun kitten about this ruin event in alpine, they removed the event in dbl. None uses the northern or southern towers to pressure garri or keeps, they just there for karma.

alpine border is dead most of the time when there are no commanders or blob vs blob, just like dbl. Dbl was solo friendly, you could cap shrines and towers. Alpine is so bad in that manner, the structures that peep care about are so friendly to defend, hills, bay everything else is karma.

desert borderland superior to depressing borderland – 80% of the wvw community

remaining 20% are kids who cant adapt to changes and only whine

TallBarr.2184:

lil devils x.6071:

TheGrimm.5624:

lil devils x.6071:

That only works if there is no score. Otherwise you create a situation of people getting to play what they consider a broken game mode all the time. AT least with rotation they get to play a whole game part of the time rather than part of a game the entire time. I will take the whole game if forced, but the truth is bringing back something so unliked at all is going to run people off again.

Based on all the other threads I think you are solo on this one, or at least based on people that post. I think a rotation will/is moving people away already. And based on your statements alone, when the rotation moves back to DBL we lose people. I already know people that are only queuing EBG while ABL is up, they were tired of those maps already. People new to the game were asking in server TS what was up with the map change and why the restrictions. So why not a mix so that there is variety for both sides. Don’t give me this limited game play, if that was a case they will be out of game during each quarter already. And not seeing a queue increase since the ABL was added in T3 or T2 but in fact a decrease for whatever reason. So if we had drawn in thousands, where are they? All in T1?

^scrolls back* This thread is full o people who do not want DBL back… Wonders how I am alone in thinking they do not want DBL back* lol

EBG was always queued even when we had Alpine the first time, that was nothing new. The difference is we ALSO have queues on the ABLs. HOWEVER, here is something I think you are missing. I want new maps, like most do. Most just do not want THOSE MAPS. Those maps in particular were designed poorly and players cannot even use their skills on much of the map due to the bad topography rendering some classes pretty unplayable in areas. I think you are not understanding that players have wanted new maps, they LOVE new stuff when it is good. Those just were not good.

People who think that players didn’t like the new maps because they didn’t want new stuff are terribly mistaken. Players just didn’t want BAD stuff. Instead of trying to fix a broken map to make it " playable" they need to design a map from the ground up with playable as the focus. If they focus on keeping players engaged in nonstop PvP combat (All players not just those who can actually use all their skills on the terrain) with easy to access direct routes terrain with only a few seconds between objectives and a reason to fight over the objectives it should be a good WvW map.

The problem that should be understood is that bringing back alpine was only supposed to be making the game playable at all WHILE THEY WAIT for Anet to actually make good maps they should have made in the first place. Players being bored with the maps is in no relation to actually wanting to play on the DBL’s, they have been wanting good maps for a while and were pretty kittened off to receive the Pve gimmicky DBL’s instead of a good map. YES, we have seen a Queue increase in T2 and T3 for ABLs. I have many fiends who have come back to the game just because they brought them back hoping this means Anet is finally listening. They happen to be playing in T2 and T3 and yes, on the Alpines. You need to check your numbers.

Just look through this thread, still looks like most do not want them back EVEN in the Bring DBL back thread. LOL

You think you are arguing for new vs the same, that is not even the argument. The argument is bad maps vs great maps, and players not willing to settle for bad maps. Many players want them to not use DBL at all and make better maps instead. People were excited to hear that we were getting great new maps and they are still waiting for that to happen. Anet has to make them first, because DBLs were the opposite of “great”.

IN ADDITION: YES limited game play. If the scouts refuse to scout them and the players refuse to go there to defend them, they should not be in play at all IF you want those players to play the game that is. You seem to be okay with telling them to go play another game instead because they don’t want to play what they see as a broken game mode if the DBls are present.

Maybe beaquse the people who use this forum and make their voice heard are kids who go to preschool and cant adapt to changes? You say DBL is broken, yet we have alpine with invurnerable trebs in spawn. Kids say the positioning of the dbl north towers got irrelevant strategic position, yet we have alpine where you can place trebs to pressure the northern keeps inside your spawn. Talk about broken map.

Bay- 80% water, underwater combat gg, disengage and swim away like a mermaid or salmon when you about to lose a fight, so gud ayelmao.

Ruins- the most useless structure in wvw that none gives a coke about, it just stands there, being the useless structure it is, when do fights pan out over the ruins? never. People cry about pve in wvw yet u dun kitten about this ruin event in alpine, they removed the event in dbl. None uses the northern or southern towers to pressure garri or keeps, they just there for karma.

alpine border is dead most of the time when there are no commanders or blob vs blob, just like dbl. Dbl was solo friendly, you could cap shrines and towers. Alpine is so bad in that manner, the structures that peep care about are so friendly to defend, hills, bay everything else is karma.

desert borderland superior to depressing borderland – 80% of the wvw community

remaining 20% are kids who cant adapt to changes and only whine

Spawn trebs do not make certain classes unable to use their skills on much of the terrain. The topography has to be changed dramatically to make it playable for certain classes at all, their skills will not even go off.. The actual topography of the map is what makes DBL unplayable, It would honestly be better to start over instead of try to fix all of the things wrong with the actual landscape itself. ( btw fixing spawn trebs should be easier than completely redoing the entire topography of a map and Let’s be real here, there really is not excuse for them not fixing spawn trebs by now.)

I personally do quite well in underwater fights, and know I am in the minority of those who like to fight under water. However, they need to greatly improve them due to how slow you move under water, and really respec classes to make it more balanced for underwater fighting. Really, that was something that has been lackluster since it was designed.

Please show me the 80% of wvw community that wants the DBL, I would argue that more than 95% do not want the DBL, and less than 5% whining to have DBL’s. BTW, WHO exactlyis arguing to just keep Alpine? I am arguing that they need to make good maps and Bin the DBL rather than try to make something bad " playable", they need to design a great WvW map from the ground up. Expecting people to " settle" for a bad map isn’t going to expand your player base. The problem is the focus of the design from the start to finish needs to be about playablity. It was not. Keeping players engaged in nonstop strategic, challenging fun PvP action the entire time they are on the map was not even a consideration and that should be the focus of the map from the beginning. They do not change that by just trying to make it so players can even use their skills on it..

You are asking players to settle for what they see as bad maps. I am asking Anet to actually make good maps designed to keep players in nonstop PvP action instead that make players WANT to play the game

lil devils x.6071:

^scrolls back* This thread is full o people who do not want DBL back… Wonders how I am alone in thinking they do not want DBL back* lol

The part I was quoting was you are one of the few with the idea of all or nothing. A lot of people in this thread alone are ok with mixed maps that way if a map they do not like is up they have other options open to them versus out for a quarter of a year at a time.

That be it for ABL/DBL or any other new map we may or may not get. You yourself said thousands will leave game if DBL comes back in, so why not cycle maps in a controlled pattern versus all or nothing. Let’s say they give us a swamp for some reason, would you want three swamp maps up versus one for a test. And leave EoTM out of this, to get a good test you need to have it in standard WvW to get a good test. So why not have it out there with other maps that are also up. Then people can provide feedback and if they really dislike they can still have other options.

If its polled may find out that is a wrong assumption about all or nothing, but working off of postings currently I would say having multiple maps up is a better option.