Making someone immune to conditions does not only shut down that damage incoming, but since cc is labeled condition in this game, it also prevents getting cc´ed. That alone is crazy.
CC is not labeled as a condition. Fear is. Starting off the fight with a fear is something you can now not do when engaging an DS ele.
I had run DS myself. It’s not too hard to get 1,6k HP off me. Eles still have the smallest initial healthpool and investing 30 points in earth will decrease your healing done by quite a good amount.
DS is only successfull vs condition classes that cannot adapt to do thos 1,6k dmg before throwing around their condis like crazy just like they are used to be.
I see you main ranger and command as a glass cannon. WvW says sorry
I use my guard most of the time in group fights in the meantime.. And the full zerker on the ranger has been replaced by a combination of zerker/knight. People learn in time..
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This is absurd. I have never had any problems with Diamond Skin when on my condi necro.
Life-blast was buffed to stupid high levels. 1-2 shots with that inside of 600 will bring any ele below 90%, even as a full condi necro.
Also keep in mind that once this easy to break threshold is broken, the ele is f’d. They either gave up their heal on water attunement or evasive arcana just to get Diamond Skin, which means they have much less sustain than normal eles.
SBI | Oceans | Ranger – Thief – Ele – Eng – Nec – Guard – Rev
Celestial Avatar is like an old man: Takes forever to get up and is spent in 4 seconds
People seem to rally behind anything anti-condition, but Automated Response and Diamond Skin are going too far with it.
Being completely immune to conditions is shutting down condition builds while roaming.
They’re both really awful traits to take in groups because you’re going to take a lot of all types of damage, but while roaming, they’re the most over powered traits in the game to condi builds.
I wouldn’t mind them being like berserker stance as a passive on an internal CD, but permanent immunity to a primary type of damage is the most horribly designed thing I’ve ever experienced (not a hyperbole).
Anet has broken condition builds in PvE with bleed cap and objects not taking condition damage, now they’ve done it in PvP. Please stop.
well you must be terribly bad to not counter these traits ele’s trait is passive as long ele can stay at the 90% hp and engineer trait is activated when hp reaches 25% at wich case the engi is 1-3 blows away from death average engi hp is 18-19k
so 25% hp would be 4 to 4.5k hp not to mention these traits do not remove current conditions so they ll die if you are good and stacked several conditions
you might wanna research or at the very least google stuff you wanna complain about
engineer trait is activated when hp reaches 25% at wich case the engi is 1-3 blows away from death average engi hp is 18-19k
so 25% hp would be 4 to 4.5k hp not to mention these traits do not remove current conditions so they ll die if you are good and stacked several conditions
you might wanna research or at the very least google stuff you wanna complain about
How many blows it would take to do 25% hp direct damage depends on many different things (power/crit/crit chance of the attacker and the vit/armor/eng kits/eng traits etc.). Saying 1-3 blows is just taking random numbers out of the air (ridiculous oversimplification). 1-3 seems more like the best case scenario if the eng lacks toughness plus is out of cooldowns (eng can sustain like a beast).
They’ll die from the other conditions at 25% ‘cause an eng that goes 30 into alch somehow doesn’t have hp despite the +300 vit, and can’t wipe the conds @ 25% despite alch having great cond removal traits? Wat?
I’m on my eng more than any other class and I don’t feel that the immunity at 25% is the right way to go about adding in more survival against conds on my eng. I play ele as well and feel the same way about diamond skin. I don’t think these are totally broken, but they are in need of tweaking to provide better skilled gameplay.
I use my guard most of the time in group fights in the meantime.. And the full zerker on the ranger has been replaced by a combination of zerker/knight. People learn in time..
I was just ribbing you :P Glad you changed it a bit though, you can gain quite a bit of survival without giving up a ton of damage if you do it right
^it doesn’t need a change just so fotm necros can keep mindlessly spamming conditions. it needs a buff. it should work at 75% health and be a master trait, not a gm trait. Or even better, make it an inherent class mechanic that kicks in as long as the ele is at 75% health or more and change the gm trait to “diamond skin now applies to all nearby allies withing 600 range”. Then maybe we’ll finally get out of this boring mindless condi spam meta if we just hard counter it all.
I think too many players have been relying on cheesy 1 button conditroll builds… aside the fact that Diamond Skin fails a lot against AoE conditions, it’s very easy to hit Ele for 1.5k/2k and then apply conditions.
Imho, traits like diamond skin and automated response are fine as long as they’re clearly displayed, even as an icon in the hud.
Sure, their effects are peculiar; but they’re grandmaster traits, thus build-defining ones – and i find that they’re doing that work quite well.
No, Nooo I’ve been mindlessly rolling people with my bunki condi build for the last year, especially ele’s, now one trait that ele’s rarely run makes my entire build unplayable and is ruining my pvp experience. Q.Q
I honestly don’t want to hear it. Diamond skin is a grandmaster trait down a line that is fully toughness condition spec for a class that does no damage when speced for such. So sorry your full condi roflstomp build is hitting a very small rock with its pinky toe if caught in a 1v1 with an elementalist actually speced for the trait, cause if this same ele is caught in a 2v1 it’s the same story as always. We already have a TERRIBAD vitality pool ,and chipping through a 90% health threshold isn’t hard to do to my class if we are speced for even a small amount of damage output. I just don’t want to hear it, our traits are already messed up and more attuned with taking care of other players than us. If we want to damage we are paper thin and if we want to survive we have no damage. How bout this. You give me back a normal friggin cd on ride the lightning and I may consider this argument valid. Unlikely.
And FYI the only “passive” healing an ele has is soothing mist, which you must be traited for and attuned to water to trigger. Signet of restoration works only if an ele is attacking it’s not passive.
Entryn ele
I main an ele but playeth all the things
[FLOT]
Just , I’m sorry but lol are people seriously that out of tune with how other classes play that they think diamond skin is some sort of game changer? It should be buffed so that I can read about more viable tears.
Entryn ele
I main an ele but playeth all the things
[FLOT]
The ele who is getting 2 shot by thieves probably isnt geared properly, when running with my guild I run full spec healer ele; even then thieves take a while to kill me even after a backstab.
You most likely panic and dont heal yourself. I’ve even drawn a stalemate again most average theives, they cannot deal the damage quick enough for my healing and interrupts. Neither can I kill them as I’m a healer and my dps is really low!
This is in a 1v1 situation not when I have guild mates who are also helping.
So yeah there are some OP skills but if you can play right you might be able to hang on longer and escape.
Macros, you can use them as long as they arent macros.
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WvW, we only care if it affects the servers we play on.
I use diamond skin and it does help especially in the way that huge sor zergs run all necros and litter the ground with a hundred red circles. Since the damage cover stops at 90% I do have to worry about melee hits taking me below the threshold. It allows me to enter gates, towers, camps etc and be able to add value to team play rather than being melted in 2 secs by players who have no creativity in their builds.
condition classes need to learn what the hell is correct and what is myth. For the last time you cant actively block conditions already applied to you, invulns dont make condies deal zero damage and most fear skills are unblockable, dropping the block and causing CC. (yes condies have stronger CC while you are too busy complaining about stuns) Cleansing is equal to a block il give you that but cleansing is badly made and doesnt clear the most dangerous condies first making it a shot in the dark. remove 2 seconds of cripple of 19 stacks of bleed… game chooses the cripple. Condies are not mitigated by protection and all condition mitigation has to be specifically placed into the build where as power mitigation comes from just being a condi tank.
Keep a little bit of dignity and stop complaining about the weakest class in the game. We have ran from you for long enough its time poor little eles get a little bit of payback for all your abusive low skill BS. try running rabid again and give up your HP pool for some bloody precision and maybe you can break the 90% barrier.
Zero respect for condi necros, bad perplex engis (because a good one would never complain), or PU mesmers.
I absolutely hate condition immunities (since it punishes people who uses conditions for utility rather than unloading) but I hate condition spam even more, so I’m fine with things like diamond skin since it will wake anet up once it reaches more ridiculous levels. Both condition spam and condition removal need a rework since condition warrior is probably the only acceptable condition class imho (extreme amounts of counterplay can be done even with 0 condition removal). I once read someone suggest that conditions should crit and I completely agree since that would force condition classes into being glassier or tanky while hitting for nothing like the situation power classes are forced into. As things are, conditions classes have little reason not to be ridiculous tanky while still bursting people down.
My thief is unplayable vs condition classes because I hate sitting in stealth for ridiculous amounts of time and the utility condition removal is horrible. My meditation guardian equipped with smite condition and contemplation of purity simply doesn’t have enough condition removal to burst them down before the next wave. I’m currently stuck playing my siphoning spectral necromancer since I can choose my utilities freely while letting my opponents handle their own conditions.
Conditions are simply whack so bring on the immunities anet.
Best part about all the necro complainers, is that condition necros still basically hard counter ds eles. Just swap in lich form for the elite, break the threshold, and face roll same as always. Now eles just have a chance against the truly stubborn and stupid.
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You know what, I am in favor of traits like this, and I kind of wish there were more like it; now that’s a grandmaster trait.
The sole reason I am in favor of this, is because the DPS to everything else ratio is way off. You have far more DPS options in the game, and in such greater volume then defense and support, or control for that matter.
This may not seem like a problem in sPvP, but it’s a massive problem in WvW. DPS in groups continue to build with each additional person, but defense and support flat line very early, and you just get smashed.
So having more really powerful options to keep yourself alive are welcome, I think I might even give it a go, even thou I wasn’t planning to initially.
The only criticism I can give it is that it should have some sort of visual indicator when it is active. It’s one thing to have a powerful defensive ability shut down your conditions, it’s quite another to not be able to know this in advance.
Goooo Diamond Skin!, awful trait for my bursty type ele. However, I’m glad there are more eles defeating the broken constant steath mechanic that condition based mesmers tend to run and of course the players that still use the poor designed perplexity runes.
Heidia- The elementalist is the #1 most OP profession in this game since beta!
Goooo Diamond Skin!, awful trait for my bursty type ele. However, I’m glad there are more eles defeating the broken constant steath mechanic that condition based mesmers tend to run and of course the players that still use the poor designed perplexity runes.
I’m not sure what they’re doing wrong, but I don’t have a whole lot of trouble taking 10% of an elementalist’s HP without conditions on my mesmer.
Goooo Diamond Skin!, awful trait for my bursty type ele. However, I’m glad there are more eles defeating the broken constant steath mechanic that condition based mesmers tend to run and of course the players that still use the poor designed perplexity runes.
I’m not sure what they’re doing wrong, but I don’t have a whole lot of trouble taking 10% of an elementalist’s HP without conditions on my mesmer.
You shouldn’t. If you do, you’re doing something wrong. Most of this is just those pure condi necros being stupid and unable or unwilling to use a couple of new skills or a new build.
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there is no rock-scissor-paper type of balance in gw2. There never was, i dont get why people still come up with this stuff.
It is not intentional from ANet but it does happen. There are builds that counter other builds especially when a build is focused around a single trick.
If the main “trick” of a build is to blow up an enemy by hitting a signet and going bunker, it should be no surprise that there is a build that completely ruins it. If a build is combat slow, nobody is shocked when a fast moving class kites it into the ground.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
Tweak your build to do a little physical damage. You only have to do 2k damage or less on average and problem solved. This is why you don’t do “pure” builds… it gets countered.
Diamond Skin is pathetic and yet I am still running it on my Elementalist.
So why do I run it?
Because going full condi-bunker and being able to stack 19 seconds of each condition (except burning) with Signet of Spite is just as ridiculous.
This way of balancing is the worst approach possible, but apparently this is the way Anet has chosen to balance the game, and since people are still running condi-bunkers I’ll run Diamond Skin.
Also: Please keep in mind that there is no such thing as balance in WvW. The stats are off the charts and there are food buffs that grant +40% condition duration, which is 10% more than 30 trait-points.
If you want to discuss actual balance then refer to sPvP.
I have nothing against you, but there is one that I just can’t stand right now: misinformations.
“being able to stack 19 seconds of each condition (except burning) with Signet of Spite is just as ridiculous.”
It’s almost as if Anet is trying to stop the proliferation of condi-builds in WvW. Maybe now we will see less condi-necros. Maybe.
Personally, I’m fine with Diamond Skin. If you can’t chip away the 3-4k HP it takes to drop an ele to 90% then you are completely ignoring an entire part of the games damage system. You can still run condi damage heavy while still having a few attacks that can do damage.
Its not even 3-4k, its like 2.5k at most. Also, is this thread about PvP or WvW?
Over a year and the forum search is still broken = /
they are not hard counters, atleast not diamond skin.
If you want to beat diamond skin, and have a hard time doing so. Switch your amulet for an exotic PVT amulet. That alone should give you enough boost to Power so that you can deal sufficient damage to get that ele under 90% HP pretty quick.
AR, not had much of an issue with it. Just be easy on the condition spam and grind the engi down. Let AR kick in and dump all your heavy condies on him.
In the end, it is all about insight, timing and execution. If you got those three covered, nothing can be considered a hard counter.
Requiring someone to completely change his gear or build is literally the definition of a hard counter.
The only realistic option is to change to carrion, but multiple videos from necromancers and engineers prove that’s not enough to break through Diamond Skin.
But if a change to the game requires a player to adjust and change up their playstyle, isnt that a good thing?
Over a year and the forum search is still broken = /
First of all, I’m amazed you whine about diamond skin as it’s hp related and ele got like the lowest hp in game so you would only need to deal 1.5k damage to make the trait useless.
Second of all, you’re a condition spec. Why are you even whining? It’s specs like those that makes ppl annoyed, not specs that are totally useless. Maybe go a bit more hybrid if you really come across that many ele’s with kittened builds. Last time I saw one he couldn’t even bring me down below 90%…
It’s almost as if Anet is trying to stop the proliferation of condi-builds in WvW. Maybe now we will see less condi-necros. Maybe.
Personally, I’m fine with Diamond Skin. If you can’t chip away the 3-4k HP it takes to drop an ele to 90% then you are completely ignoring an entire part of the games damage system. You can still run condi damage heavy while still having a few attacks that can do damage.
Its not even 3-4k, its like 2.5k at most. Also, is this thread about PvP or WvW?
Yeah I know. I put 3-4k damage as that seems like a good round number that can be done. Maybe I just play glassier specs but it isn’t that hard to hit 3k in a couple skills. But yeah, usually 2k is way more than needed to get an ele below 90%.
And this is probably about WvW as its in this subforum. And because any self-respecting necro in sPVP can do 1.5k damage to an ele.
yes any necro can deal 1.5k dmg to an ele, but every 9 or so seconds they can go back into water and heal back up and by that time we might as well give up since it will be a loosing battle.
yes any necro can deal 1.5k dmg to an ele, but every 9 or so seconds they can go back into water and heal back up and by that time we might as well give up since it will be a loosing battle.
Hi, welcome to how elementalists have felt when fighting necros for months and months now. Maybe if those of you crusading against DS had put some effort into getting condis nerfed down to more reasonable levels, anet wouldn’t have resorted to a hard counter.
yes any necro can deal 1.5k dmg to an ele, but every 9 or so seconds they can go back into water and heal back up and by that time we might as well give up since it will be a loosing battle.
Hi, welcome to how elementalists have felt when fighting necros for months and months now. Maybe if those of you crusading against DS had put some effort into getting condis nerfed down to more reasonable levels, anet wouldn’t have resorted to a hard counter.
I just dont understand how an ele can complain about conditions.
over the last month I have fought some pretty good ele’s and had duels last several min and a few even beat me so im not sure what this complain is about since other players have been able to give a tanky condi necro a run for my money why cant you?
I wanna know why people always feel the need to over exaggerate to make a point?(Rhetorical question)
I agree with your main point of overstatement but Signet of Spite doesn’t live in a vacuum. Necros frequently run food and traits that extend the duration of their conditions. SoS and Corrupt Boon can and frequently do explode players before they know what hit them. Coupled with Epidemic small teams often melt under its power. I am not saying it is OP and it is kinda a one trick pony, but SoS is more than just its description on the wiki.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
I know this is somewhat worn out but rock meet paper.
I prefer the “skilled player on one class has a chance against a skilled player on another class, no matter what the builds are” system. There should be inherent advantages in different build matchups but not passive hard counters.
Get rid of thieves then. Stealth Zerker backstabber Thieves are a hard counter to Elementalist Full Glass Zerker builds.
I know this is somewhat worn out but rock meet paper.
I prefer the “skilled player on one class has a chance against a skilled player on another class, no matter what the builds are” system. There should be inherent advantages in different build matchups but not passive hard counters.
Get rid of thieves then. Stealth Zerker backstabber Thieves are a hard counter to Elementalist Full Glass Zerker builds.
glass vs glass is a battle of who get their bust off first. not a counter
yes any necro can deal 1.5k dmg to an ele, but every 9 or so seconds they can go back into water and heal back up and by that time we might as well give up since it will be a loosing battle.
Hi, welcome to how elementalists have felt when fighting necros for months and months now. Maybe if those of you crusading against DS had put some effort into getting condis nerfed down to more reasonable levels, anet wouldn’t have resorted to a hard counter.
I just dont understand how an ele can complain about conditions.
over the last month I have fought some pretty good ele’s and had duels last several min and a few even beat me so im not sure what this complain is about since other players have been able to give a tanky condi necro a run for my money why cant you?
Oh, well then. Some elementalists have beaten you in a duel. Obviously elementalists are perfectly balanced and not at all at a disadvantage vs. necros. Thanks for clearing that up.
yes any necro can deal 1.5k dmg to an ele, but every 9 or so seconds they can go back into water and heal back up and by that time we might as well give up since it will be a loosing battle.
Hi, welcome to how elementalists have felt when fighting necros for months and months now. Maybe if those of you crusading against DS had put some effort into getting condis nerfed down to more reasonable levels, anet wouldn’t have resorted to a hard counter.
I just dont understand how an ele can complain about conditions.
over the last month I have fought some pretty good ele’s and had duels last several min and a few even beat me so im not sure what this complain is about since other players have been able to give a tanky condi necro a run for my money why cant you?
Oh, well then. Some elementalists have beaten you in a duel. Obviously elementalists are perfectly balanced and not at all at a disadvantage vs. necros. Thanks for clearing that up.
yes any necro can deal 1.5k dmg to an ele, but every 9 or so seconds they can go back into water and heal back up and by that time we might as well give up since it will be a loosing battle.
If you can’t kill an Ele in 9 seconds with your condi spam, you are a horrible Necro player.
I know this is somewhat worn out but rock meet paper.
I prefer the “skilled player on one class has a chance against a skilled player on another class, no matter what the builds are” system. There should be inherent advantages in different build matchups but not passive hard counters.
Get rid of thieves then. Stealth Zerker backstabber Thieves are a hard counter to Elementalist Full Glass Zerker builds.
glass vs glass is a battle of who get their bust off first. not a counter
Glass Thieves are STEALTHED. You can’t get your burst off first on them. It’s a hard counter, because Ele is too soft to survive that initial backstab.
yes any necro can deal 1.5k dmg to an ele, but every 9 or so seconds they can go back into water and heal back up and by that time we might as well give up since it will be a loosing battle.
If you can’t kill an Ele in 9 seconds with your condi spam, you are a horrible Necro player.
with my condi dmg if I am able to keep 10 stacks of bleeds and psn on any class for 9 seconds ill do about 15k dmg. but what class does not have active condi removal and what player will allow 10 stacks of bleeds to remain on them?
Now that you watched some duels, imaging that ele with diamond skin…. with all the regen they have I would not have been able to get below their 90% and I would have lost.
just an fyi I do not run dumbfire since I do just fine without it.
- The eles are running scepter focus. It is purely a dueling build and it is extremely unlikely you will ever run into anyone running it outside of obsidian sanctum.
2 – You are running a suboptimal build because you don’t want to cheese it up. Most necros don’t care.
3 – You still won.
Not sure what you were hoping to prove, but you didn’t do a very good job of it.
I wanna know why people always feel the need to over exaggerate to make a point?(Rhetorical question)
I agree with your main point of overstatement but Signet of Spite doesn’t live in a vacuum. Necros frequently run food and traits that extend the duration of their conditions. SoS and Corrupt Boon can and frequently do explode players before they know what hit them. Coupled with Epidemic small teams often melt under its power. I am not saying it is OP and it is kinda a one trick pony, but SoS is more than just its description on the wiki.
I don’t know what you’re talking about. Epidemic, Corrupt Boon and food were no where mentioned in his post. Necromancer is my main. I already know how deadly SoS/epidemic or corrupt boon/Sos combo is. But… My post was only here to point out a misinformation about SOS. I don’t want to join this conversation: it’s already full of straw man and ad hominem as it is. And literaly. So no thank you.
