Guild Wars 2

Downscaling ascended to exotic is a bad idea.

Making ascended weapons and back pieces available from WvW is a good idea.

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Ok, so you are whining about people potentially getting gear equal to you without going through the ascended crafting process that you did.

What? I don’t have an ascended weapon yet. I haven’t done the crafting, and now that I think about it I’m pretty sure the Ori farming I mentioned earlier was for my first couple sets of exotics. I don’t know why I brought that up in this context, probably because I was high.

That’s one way to deal with farming I suppose.

It certainly helps! lol…

Anyway, I’m not trying to be a jerk, I just think a wonky standard is being applied here. I’m being told that ascendeds should be downscaled in the name of ‘fair play,’ but that doesn’t really make sense to me considering the design choices that Anet made with WvW in the first place: namely, being able to level completely in WvW. Uplevels are always going to be at a significant disadvantage in WvW. The stat discrepancy between an 80 with rares and an uplevel with blues is way larger than the stat discrepancy between an 80 with full exotics and an 80 with full ascended.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

We’re not talking about being level 5 and leveling to 80. We’re talking about the role of ascended gear in WvW and how it deviates from the developers’ previous statements on the matter.

Then you completely missed the point of my comparison. I was pointing out that, as a measure of becoming effective in WvW, you’re already pretty much there simply by being 80 with exotic gear. If you don’t PvE or craft (which some people apparently think they should never be “forced” to do), the time and effort spent getting to the level cap and gearing yourself with exotics is going to be considerable. Not only that, you will be killed many times by players through no fault of your own, simply because they are stronger than you.

What you are doing here is arbitrarily applying the “fair game” standard. If you want an even playing field in WvW, you should also be arguing for the elimination of uplevels, which would—ironically—actually emphasize the role of “forced” PvE in terms of end WvW effectiveness.

No, I’m not. It was understood, from the beginning, that to be fully effective in WvW you had to be 80 in exotics and that was it. If you entered at a level lower than 80 you were at a disadvantage but you were able to actually level while doing WvW. This ascended grind kitten entirely contrary to what was originally stated which is why people are so annoyed. I would’ve stuck with another game if I wanted to grind for gear.

In the massive-multiplayer-online genre, there really are none. This game was supposed to be different. (Except for GW1 maybe? I never played it.)

A bit selfish of the vertical progression people to want another game to be catered first to them, when every MMO caters to them.

luckywaldo.6089:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

luckywaldo.6089:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

luckywaldo.6089:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vena.8436:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

That math is done purely on weapon comparison, it isn’t then matched against over-all stats.

The attack gained from exotic to ascended was ~55. Depending on your spec, thats 0.5-2%. The major stat gain is 0.5%, the minor stat gain is even less. Of your overall stats.

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

Since it doesn’t matter, why should we bother with downgrading just to satisfy a few people?

Given that scaling is implemented quite widely in the game, do you think it would really be that hard?

Doesn’t need to be implemented so why bother putting code in just to satisfy a few unhappy people?

Because a few is actually a lot.

Prove it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv

That isn’t really anything. Just a few more people.

You still haven’t proven you are enough to bother catering too.

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Ok, so you are whining about people potentially getting gear equal to you without going through the ascended crafting process that you did.

What? I don’t have an ascended weapon yet. I haven’t done the crafting, and now that I think about it I’m pretty sure the Ori farming I mentioned earlier was for my first couple sets of exotics. I don’t know why I brought that up in this context, probably because I was high.

That’s one way to deal with farming I suppose.

It certainly helps! lol…

Anyway, I’m not trying to be a jerk, I just think a wonky standard is being applied here. I’m being told that ascendeds should be downscaled in the name of ‘fair play,’ but that doesn’t really make sense to me considering the design choices that Anet made with WvW in the first place: namely, being able to level completely in WvW. Uplevels are always going to be at a significant disadvantage in WvW, but I don’t hear anyone saying we should eliminate them as a vehicle to promote an even playing field. The stat discrepancy between an 80 with rares and an uplevel with blues is way higher than the stat discrepancy between an 80 with full exotics and an 80 with full ascended.

I fully understand the double-standard that sort of exists here. But it only took me ~3 weeks after release to have an 80 in full exotics. An ascended weapon is supposed to take ~2 weeks for the average level 80 player that already has a bank tab full of mats. Plus the weeks for the time-gated laurels for the other things.

It’s just such a huge jump I can’t ignore or forget it.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

We’re not talking about being level 5 and leveling to 80. We’re talking about the role of ascended gear in WvW and how it deviates from the developers’ previous statements on the matter.

Then you completely missed the point of my comparison. I was pointing out that, as a measure of becoming effective in WvW, you’re already pretty much there simply by being 80 with exotic gear. If you don’t PvE or craft (which some people apparently think they should never be “forced” to do), the time and effort spent getting to the level cap and gearing yourself with exotics is going to be considerable. Not only that, you will be killed many times by players through no fault of your own, simply because they are stronger than you.

What you are doing here is arbitrarily applying the “fair game” standard. If you want an even playing field in WvW, you should also be arguing for the elimination of uplevels, which would—ironically—actually emphasize the role of “forced” PvE in terms of end WvW effectiveness.

No, I’m not. It was understood, from the beginning, that to be fully effective in WvW you had to be 80 in exotics and that was it. If you entered at a level lower than 80 you were at a disadvantage but you were able to actually level while doing WvW. This ascended grind kitten entirely contrary to what was originally stated which is why people are so annoyed. I would’ve stuck with another game if I wanted to grind for gear.

See, this is a good argument for making ascended weapons and backpieces accessible through WvW. It is not a good argument for nerfing them in WvW.

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

We’re not talking about being level 5 and leveling to 80. We’re talking about the role of ascended gear in WvW and how it deviates from the developers’ previous statements on the matter.

Then you completely missed the point of my comparison. I was pointing out that, as a measure of becoming effective in WvW, you’re already pretty much there simply by being 80 with exotic gear. If you don’t PvE or craft (which some people apparently think they should never be “forced” to do), the time and effort spent getting to the level cap and gearing yourself with exotics is going to be considerable. Not only that, you will be killed many times by players through no fault of your own, simply because they are stronger than you.

What you are doing here is arbitrarily applying the “fair game” standard. If you want an even playing field in WvW, you should also be arguing for the elimination of uplevels, which would—ironically—actually emphasize the role of “forced” PvE in terms of end WvW effectiveness.

No, I’m not. It was understood, from the beginning, that to be fully effective in WvW you had to be 80 in exotics and that was it. If you entered at a level lower than 80 you were at a disadvantage but you were able to actually level while doing WvW. This ascended grind kitten entirely contrary to what was originally stated which is why people are so annoyed. I would’ve stuck with another game if I wanted to grind for gear.

See, this is a good argument for making ascended weapons and backpieces accessible through WvW. It is not a good argument for nerfing them in WvW.

I agree with this.

I would have no problems with it all available from badges in WvW instead of having this request for a nerf.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

We’re not talking about being level 5 and leveling to 80. We’re talking about the role of ascended gear in WvW and how it deviates from the developers’ previous statements on the matter.

Then you completely missed the point of my comparison. I was pointing out that, as a measure of becoming effective in WvW, you’re already pretty much there simply by being 80 with exotic gear. If you don’t PvE or craft (which some people apparently think they should never be “forced” to do), the time and effort spent getting to the level cap and gearing yourself with exotics is going to be considerable. Not only that, you will be killed many times by players through no fault of your own, simply because they are stronger than you.

What you are doing here is arbitrarily applying the “fair game” standard. If you want an even playing field in WvW, you should also be arguing for the elimination of uplevels, which would—ironically—actually emphasize the role of “forced” PvE in terms of end WvW effectiveness.

No, I’m not. It was understood, from the beginning, that to be fully effective in WvW you had to be 80 in exotics and that was it. If you entered at a level lower than 80 you were at a disadvantage but you were able to actually level while doing WvW. This ascended grind kitten entirely contrary to what was originally stated which is why people are so annoyed. I would’ve stuck with another game if I wanted to grind for gear.

See, this is a good argument for making ascended weapons and backpieces accessible through WvW. It is not a good argument for nerfing them in WvW.

I agree with this.

I would have no problems with it all available from badges in WvW instead of having this request for a nerf.

Right. IMO badges are the least useful currency in the game by a fair margin. I think the whole reason they made badge-acquired ascended gear cost so many laurels was because they suspected (or knew) that people were sitting on gobs and gobs of badges already and would be able to fully gear a toon or three the same day the patch dropped.

Accordingly, I think the devs might be reluctant to add too many more juicy badge rewards (like ascended weapons or backpieces, even if they cost laurels too). One solution I might consider would be to have the vendors unlock only at certain WvW ranks, or if certain achievements are attained. And/or maybe you could craft ascended weapons by using special WvW specific components in the mystic forge.

zamalek.2154:

By extension legendaries should be nerfed in WvW as well.

No.

As an XvX player the irony is that WvW has been dropping LOADS of empyreal fragments etc. compared to PvE: to the point where I would hypothetically recommend PvE players farm WvW for them. I really don’t know where this complaint comes from because it’s not based in reality.

Now I’m REALLY confused…

But I’d point out… that the main Wiki page on Empy Shards already demonstrates why that’s false… 6 minute speedrun of COF yields 20, 10 min speedrun of an Arah path yields the same plus 3x as much Gold. Upper level Fractals actually SCALE the amount to the level meaning you can easily get 30 or more just b/c you have Agony Resist gear (= REAL TREADMILL). A Jump puzzle or minidungeon that has a “Gate” somehwere in it before the chest…. you can simply move all of your L80 alts to that gate, clear the objective, and then collect 6-9 shards PER ALT simply by switching chars fast enough to get all of them through the gate before it resets. This even works for Vexa’s lab where you have to beat a miniboss to make the chest appear….but once it does, any alt parked there gets to raid it. All of them can be done completely solo BTW

Compare those to Camp flipping… atleast a 6 minute downtime between flips and chances are good you won’t even get to tag the Claiming NPC before it dies if you’re running with a Zerg. Same thing with Towers and Keeps which are more Target’s of opportunity instead of something you can simply do anytime you feel like it regardless of party size.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

We’re not talking about being level 5 and leveling to 80. We’re talking about the role of ascended gear in WvW and how it deviates from the developers’ previous statements on the matter.

Then you completely missed the point of my comparison. I was pointing out that, as a measure of becoming effective in WvW, you’re already pretty much there simply by being 80 with exotic gear. If you don’t PvE or craft (which some people apparently think they should never be “forced” to do), the time and effort spent getting to the level cap and gearing yourself with exotics is going to be considerable. Not only that, you will be killed many times by players through no fault of your own, simply because they are stronger than you.

What you are doing here is arbitrarily applying the “fair game” standard. If you want an even playing field in WvW, you should also be arguing for the elimination of uplevels, which would—ironically—actually emphasize the role of “forced” PvE in terms of end WvW effectiveness.

No, I’m not. It was understood, from the beginning, that to be fully effective in WvW you had to be 80 in exotics and that was it. If you entered at a level lower than 80 you were at a disadvantage but you were able to actually level while doing WvW. This ascended grind kitten entirely contrary to what was originally stated which is why people are so annoyed. I would’ve stuck with another game if I wanted to grind for gear.

Oh, but at launch the selling point of the whole game (not just www) was totally different than today, as you can read in my sig.

ANet catering to WoW kiddies….no thanks I have WoW (or any other failed WoW clone that are all F2P btw) for that if i get teh cravings

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

And not doing so invalidates the time people spent leveling and gearing alts. I probably shouldn’t even mention that, since ANet hates players with more than one character. The game should have just come with a single character slot and one playable profession, then we could all have maxed WvW traits and stand in a circle hundred bladesing each other with ascended and legendary greatswords.

Put me down as a yes, but it doesn’t matter. In fact, it seems that anything the majority of the WvW community asks for is immediately off the table (except disabling culling, but really we were just the guinea pigs PvE culling removal, testing it on us was a safe move since they don’t care about our playing experience as much).

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

Ah, people who grind should be able to one shot those who don’t.

Well, that’s that then

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vena.8436:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

That math is done purely on weapon comparison, it isn’t then matched against over-all stats.

The attack gained from exotic to ascended was ~55. Depending on your spec, thats 0.5-2%. The major stat gain is 0.5%, the minor stat gain is even less. Of your overall stats.

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

The real question is since its only .5-2% why not just keep it as is? Anet has 1 less thing to work on and u guys have 1 less thing to complain about.

Anet can now work on improving wvw’s other features while people who refuse to walk that extra mile, refuse to walk into spvp, refuse to accept that wvw is open field and it was never meant to give all players the same exact playing field to actually shut up and do something themselves about it by farming 10 minutes more a day.

Don’t like it? Anet can always remove all item drops and rewards from wvw and straight up give only wxp. But then people will also complaining about being unable to fight players who spend 130 points into great fortitude on even fields because some players refuse to spend their points there and wanted something like arrow Cart mastery.

Go play maplestory or something complain there.

What’s really funny about this is that some people actually LIKE pointless grinding and they believe that anyone else who doesn’t like pointless grinding as much as they do should be punished. I have plenty of chores to do around my home, I don’t need them in my gaming. But the thing is, I’m going to be forced to grind for ascended if I want to be on an even playing field with the masochists who enjoy that sort of thing.

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

You’ve purposefully walked into the age old power creep issue of every MMO PvP format.
It looks like there’s a conflict internally about PvP at Anet in general. Your introducing a competitive scoring system with leagues and brackets, but ignoring actual game mechanics for balance.

Let’s be honest. A game has to have vertical progression or people will get bored because they have nothing else to strive for. And as human beings we need things to strive for. Can’t do anything about human nature.

Johje Holan.4607:

Let’s be honest. A game has to have vertical progression or people will get bored because they have nothing else to strive for. And as human beings we need things to strive for. Can’t do anything about human nature.

Well these players quit anyways when other companies launch much better gear grinding games. Why do 10% more damage than enemy in gw2 when you can do 50% more in other games?

I’d have to say no. Mainly because -as mentioned earlier by others in this thread- it wouldn’t be that hard to add a means of gaining all pertinent Ascended EQ in WvW.
In addition, it seems that some of the “yea” voters have forgotten how much a part
player skill can play in WvW. It is definitely doable that a white-green geared uplevel can kill a fully tricked-out, Legendary-brandishing 80. On a larger scale, a co-ordinated group of the same kinds of upleveled players can drop a group of “true” 80’s.

As such, it seems more to me, that:

1. Like any MMO-maker, ANet’s eating crow on a lot of their pre-game hype.
2. A good chunk of this, is down to human nature. The oft-mentioned Skinner Box, while not a “fun” concept, is a prime motivator for many.
3. As much as I’ll call our Devs on things I feel are done wrongly -(NA League specs come to mind, immediately. What’s so hard about breaking 24 into 3 sets of 8?)- I can honestly somewhat empathize with them. It’s gotta be a hard sell to try to please two diametrically opposed mindsets such as “grinder” and “non-grinder.”

Chasing bigger numbers on gear just means the actual game isn’t any fun.

You need something to force you to press the log in button.

Calae.1738:

Chasing bigger numbers on gear just means the actual game isn’t any fun.

You need something to force you to press the log in button.

^this^

Klawlyt.6507:

KOK.2650:

Klawlyt.6507:

In the spring I’ll get ESO, and I’ll play it as long as it doesn’t feel like a job, but I won’t be bitterly angry at Zenimax.

If you think ESO has no farming, you are in for a big surprise." Almost everything there involved farming" (from closed beta friends)

I get that, but Zenimax hasn’t been telling us that they’re going to do anything different. They haven’t been shoving “You don’t have to grind to get to the fun stuff” down my throat for a couple years.

Truth be told, I’ll also be getting it because I’ve been playing TES games since Morrowind, and because I have several RL friends who will be playing ESO no matter how much I’ve told them they should play GW2. Granted, I’ll probably burn out on ESO sooner or later, but what are the odds I’d still play GW2 on the side/after I’m done? Each new round of ascended gear makes that much less likely.

But the difference in ESO will be how they treat alts.

There, your main character is essentially your alt, because you can equip almost any skill in the game (except for some class, race, or guild specific skills).

So while GW2 grind makes alts unviable at the highest levels of WvW, in ESO, if you want your heavy armour wearer to experiment with healing, or stealth, just equip the weapon and have a go.

The system could actually balance need for MMO grind with end-game viability of alts.

I have not read the entire discussion so far… But the title of this thread alone is dumb enough. People should have a goal to strive for in a video game. When they work for something, they should be rewarded. If you are complaining about someone else having higher stats than you, then maybe you should just go play the game! If you can’t grind what you need, then figure out how to play the market and make the money to buy your way to your weapon. Did mommy and daddy never reward you for work as a child, or were you just spoiled?

Johje Holan.4607:

Let’s be honest. A game has to have vertical progression or people will get bored because they have nothing else to strive for. And as human beings we need things to strive for. Can’t do anything about human nature.

Not really, or do you mean to say that “A mmorpgpve game has to have vertical progression or people will get bored because they have nothing else to strive for.”

Because the most popular queue on LoL has no progression at all. Neither does the second, or third most popular queue. In fact unless you do ranked there is no progression in that fashion. There are things you can purchase that add a similar customization, but those are gated around learning the game. It’s possible for a person to go from level 1 to level 30 and never experience playing with another player. Further as pointed out by a few pros, some unintentionally in professional tournaments, it’s possible to do well with absolutely none of those things (we all remember silsol beating dyrus with no runes lol)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/07/11/riot-games-league-of-legends-officially-becomes-most-played-pc-game-in-the-world/

Zero.2796:

I have not read the entire discussion so far… But the title of this thread alone is dumb enough. People should have a goal to strive for in a video game. When they work for something, they should be rewarded. If you are complaining about someone else having higher stats than you, then maybe you should just go play the game! If you can’t grind what you need, then figure out how to play the market and make the money to buy your way to your weapon. Did mommy and daddy never reward you for work as a child, or were you just spoiled?

I play to have fun, not to do chores.

Vertical progression sucks for PvP; ANet clearly acknowledges this because there’s no ascended gear in sPvP. However ANet insists that WvW is partly PvE and therefore needs a “shallow power curve”. Hopefully they have more PvE content in store other than taking camps and killing dolyaks but I digress.

I think I know how to solve this problem. ANet needs to introduce some mini WvW maps with sPvP rules (GvG maybe?). Everyone who doesn’t like vertical grind will transfer over to that and everyone else can have their ascended items. Problem solved!

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Zero.2796:

I have not read the entire discussion so far… But the title of this thread alone is dumb enough. People should have a goal to strive for in a video game. When they work for something, they should be rewarded. If you are complaining about someone else having higher stats than you, then maybe you should just go play the game! If you can’t grind what you need, then figure out how to play the market and make the money to buy your way to your weapon. Did mommy and daddy never reward you for work as a child, or were you just spoiled?

I play to have fun, not to do chores.

Seems like you should be doing chores with the time you’re on this game. Maybe it’s time to gtfo and make a sandwich.

Kelvingts.2035:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Zero.2796:

I have not read the entire discussion so far… But the title of this thread alone is dumb enough. People should have a goal to strive for in a video game. When they work for something, they should be rewarded. If you are complaining about someone else having higher stats than you, then maybe you should just go play the game! If you can’t grind what you need, then figure out how to play the market and make the money to buy your way to your weapon. Did mommy and daddy never reward you for work as a child, or were you just spoiled?

I play to have fun, not to do chores.

Seems like you should be doing chores with the time you’re on this game. Maybe it’s time to gtfo and make a sandwich.

The fact that a call for fairness upsets grinders speaks volumes.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Kelvingts.2035:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Zero.2796:

I have not read the entire discussion so far… But the title of this thread alone is dumb enough. People should have a goal to strive for in a video game. When they work for something, they should be rewarded. If you are complaining about someone else having higher stats than you, then maybe you should just go play the game! If you can’t grind what you need, then figure out how to play the market and make the money to buy your way to your weapon. Did mommy and daddy never reward you for work as a child, or were you just spoiled?

I play to have fun, not to do chores.

Seems like you should be doing chores with the time you’re on this game. Maybe it’s time to gtfo and make a sandwich.

The fact that a call for fairness upsets grinders speaks volumes.

The fact that you bring your real life concerns into a gw2 forum thread to backup your point means your life needs a bit more of your attention not ours.

Kelvingts.2035:

The fact that you bring your real life concerns into a gw2 forum thread to backup your point means your life needs a bit more of your attention not ours.

I meant chores in game. Like grinding for gear.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

What’s really funny about this is that some people actually LIKE pointless grinding and they believe that anyone else who doesn’t like pointless grinding as much as they do should be punished. I have plenty of chores to do around my home, I don’t need them in my gaming. But the thing is, I’m going to be forced to grind for ascended if I want to be on an even playing field with the masochists who enjoy that sort of thing.

Everyone has chores, then we play the game and do things that some consider chores or not in the game. If you want to complain about even playing fields backing your point with something that every player is responsible to weight the importance of is not the way to go.

Zero.2796:

I have not read the entire discussion so far… But the title of this thread alone is dumb enough. People should have a goal to strive for in a video game. When they work for something, they should be rewarded. If you are complaining about someone else having higher stats than you, then maybe you should just go play the game! If you can’t grind what you need, then figure out how to play the market and make the money to buy your way to your weapon. Did mommy and daddy never reward you for work as a child, or were you just spoiled?

My parents rewarded me for doing chores by letting me eat and sleep under their roof, and reminded me so every night. I didn’t get ‘rewards’ until I was old enough to help the neighbor build a fence around his pool, and then my reward was the money he payed me in exchange for my labor.

The ‘striving’ needed for ascended gear is a pansy version of striving. Do some farming and some crafting. Real striving comes in the form of improving your reaction times, your recognition of animations, your timing on skills, and your choices in a fight.

Although if the Sacrx is correct, then 100% of the game was geared around casual play and this conversation is useless in the context of trying to make it more hardcore.

So best of luck to you guys, I hope it’s becomes the game you want.

luckywaldo.6089:

Zero.2796:

I have not read the entire discussion so far… But the title of this thread alone is dumb enough. People should have a goal to strive for in a video game. When they work for something, they should be rewarded. If you are complaining about someone else having higher stats than you, then maybe you should just go play the game! If you can’t grind what you need, then figure out how to play the market and make the money to buy your way to your weapon. Did mommy and daddy never reward you for work as a child, or were you just spoiled?

My parents rewarded me for doing chores by letting me eat and sleep under their roof, and reminded me so every night. I didn’t get ‘rewards’ until I was old enough to help the neighbor build a fence around his pool, and then my reward was the money he payed me in exchange for my labor.

The ‘striving’ needed for ascended gear is a pansy version of striving. Do some farming and some crafting. Real striving comes in the form of improving your reaction times, your recognition of animations, your timing on skills, and your choices in a fight.

Although if the Sacrx is correct, then 100% of the game was geared around casual play and this conversation is useless in the context of trying to make it more hardcore.

So best of luck to you guys, I hope it’s becomes the game you want.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1m8wfp/arenanets_opinion_of_developer_interaction_with/

Similar, but you can’t really discuss that video on these forums for obvious reasons. It was funny checking the dev posts and seeing how many threads had been locked this morning.

And I think I’m done. Thanks for the good times, ANet.

DevonCarver.5370:

Shiren.9532:

I primarily PvE but I still don’t see the actions over the last year as reasonable attempts to make ascended items fairly available to WvW players. I don’t care what you’d like to do, I only care about what you actually do.

Speaking as someone who has only gotten Ascended gear via WvW vendors, I’d say that’s nonsense. Speaking as a developer, we are continuing to make this better, which is not to say perfect. There will be more ways to acquire the ascended mats as part of the season and we will look into adding yet additional ways after that.

I guess it will come down to fairly available vs better.

Ascended Rings:
PvE method:

• 10 Fractal dailies with frequent bonus rings from the daily chest.
• Possible to do multiple dailies in level brackets, on multiple characters.
• Implement righted from the get go.

WvW method:

• 250 badges + 25 laurels which can only be acquired once a day across an entire account. A bonus 10 each month for a maximum of roughly 38-41 a month.

Ascended Amulets:
PvE method:

• 30 laurels from dailies.

WvW method:

• 20 laurels + 250 badges. In a vacuum this is actually easier (I will get back to this).

Ascended Accessories:
PvE method:

• 5 gold + 12 Guild Commendations. A maximum of 6 commendations awarded a week per account.

WvW method:

• 40 laurels + 50 ecto (about 16g on the TP right now).

Ascended Back Items:
PvE method:

• You can buy one with fractal relics, upgrade the karka one with resources or craft one with a fractal exclusive drop.

WvE method:

• None that I’m aware of.

Now I know you personally see no problem with alt-unfriendly design in the form of WvW ranks so I can understand how your perception of this next problem would be different from my own but imagine if you want ascended items on more than one character.

To outfit a WvW character fully with ascended items (barring the back item) using the WvW acquisition method you will need:

• 150 laurels (roughly 4 months assuming you do complete every monthly and daily, not sure if all monthlies were possible in WvW alone).
• 750 badges of honour.
• 32g.

To do the same in PvE you will need:

• 20 Pristine Relics (20 days).
• 22 Guild Commendations (4 weeks).
• 30 laurels (20 days + monthly or 30 days).
• 10g.
• None of these are mutually exclusive time dates, so you can do them all at the same time.

Pristine Relics, Guild Commendations and Laurels are all time gated resources but they are all used for separate things in PvE. In WvW you’ve used the one time gated resource and you’ve used it for almost every ascended item.

It’s possible to almost completely outfit a character with the WvW method but it will take far longer because the same time gated resource is used for the same item and no increased supply is given to offset this. Hopefully your build never changes and you need new gear, let alone you like to WvW on multiple characters because you can scrap your old items and start again. In my view, that’s not fair to a WvW player.

My intention is not to attack the efforts to make ascended gear available in WvW but rather the decision to make it all require large amounts of a single time gated resource while the PvE method has multiple different resources available, the core of my point centres around the idea of whether or not it is “fair”. Obviously the extent to which you are affected by this varies based on whether you PvE at all and whether you have a variety of characters or builds you like to play with.

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

close, but no. many people dont want to do that “sprinkling of PvE”, none at all, period. and you are alienating them by forcing them to do PvE to enjoy WvW.

how about this?

get most gear thru WvW easily
then some of it that can be gained in PvE easier/faster, and in WvW slower/harder… but not just from PvE

btw, the inverse should also be true. many parts easy to come by in PvE, but some parts easier/faster in WvW.
I dont see why WvW players are forced to do PvE, while the other way around doesnt happen

Sube Dai.8496:

What do people think, yes or no?

I see this a compromise for the large number of people who dont want ascended gear in the game. Make it pve only.

Anet will lose people with their current implimentation while trying to please the grinders…so why not do both. I doubt any of the pve grinders play wvw anyway.

Current Vote:

Yes: 46 (56%)

No: 36 (44%)

No.

If you want equal fights go to sPvP.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Downscaling ascended to exotic is a bad idea.

Making ascended weapons and back pieces available from WvW is a good idea.

Well said. any form of balance without the need to grind i support.

Yes. Part of the success of WVW is that it’s accessible, something that vertical progression destroys.

Vena.8436:

The attack gained from exotic to ascended was ~55. Depending on your spec, thats 0.5-2%. The major stat gain is 0.5%, the minor stat gain is even less. Of your overall stats.

Since the weapon average damage goes from 1047 to 1100, I don’t understand how you call that only 0.5-2%. It’s nearly exactly a 5% increase.

Unless you’ve fallen down into the trap of the “attack” stat displayed in the game. This stat has no basis in reality and greatly undervalues the effect of the base weapon damage.

I do not see us getting Ascended weapons purely in WvW.

That would invalidate the crafters that got to 500. As they have proven… that is the market they will NOT invalidate so…. we will not see Ascended weapons purely in WvW. No matter what… we WILL be crafting them. There will not be an alternate way to get them. Trust me on this.

I actually don’t think there’s anything that’s easier to get in WvW than it is to get in PvE. (I could be wrong, but I’d appreciate feedback) Even badges of honor come by the truckload for achievements, which are easier to get in PvE.

TooBz.3065:

I actually don’t think there’s anything that’s easier to get in WvW than it is to get in PvE. (I could be wrong, but I’d appreciate feedback)

Repair bills??

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

uld clear that up. So yes, seriously. Hey it’s early, I could be wrong. Please correct me.

You forgot to add changing weapon, located and identify weapon. Ppl can changed their weapon in WvW zone and also outside. Change when respec.

I remember a bug in DAOC that allow multiper of stats to sky high by changing weapon.
That also happen in Warhammer and neverwinter.
Programming isn’t as easy as you think.

Downscaling ascended to exotic is a bad idea.

Making ascended weapons and back pieces available from WvW is a good idea.

Agreed, 10 Ore from SM (You need to hit the lord and not dying) is a bloody joke

Camps and sentries should reward the Empyreal Fragments.
Towers should reward the 10 Dragonite Ore.
Keeps should be 20 Dragonite Ore.
SM should be 50 Dragonite Ore.

The amount of time and coordination needed for each location needs to be taken into account, and since each location’s reward can only be received once per day, it’s not going to turn into a farm fest.

And, even if it does turn into a farm fest, it’ll be the first time WvW has a reward worth farming.

Tekyn.5376:

Sube Dai.8496:

What do people think, yes or no?

I see this a compromise for the large number of people who dont want ascended gear in the game. Make it pve only.

Anet will lose people with their current implimentation while trying to please the grinders…so why not do both. I doubt any of the pve grinders play wvw anyway.

Current Vote:

Yes: 46 (56%)

No: 36 (44%)

No.

If you want equal fights go to sPvP.

SPvP hot-join system is inherently not balanced, but keep trying.

racta.4250:

No.

Ascended gear is a good way to keep the progression of your character going. I want my character to be my character, not seperate between wvw, pve, and pvp. Creating more separation via scaling down gear just makes me feel more disconnected to the world. The stat separation of ascended vs exotic is not large enough to warrant it not taking part in wvw.

guess what, you still have all your fancy ascended gear. Just not a statistical advantage over others and will have to beat them with “skill” or “builds”

crazy huh?

I cant understand why people demand they get higher stats on gear just cause they sat on a computer longer. PvP is supposed to be skill based, not time based. You know, what GW2 was supposed to be about

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

The stat difference isn’t big but it adds to the problem. The mainproblem is within the consumables, wvw stat buffs, easy weapon stacking, stacking from NPCs via wvw ranks.

If Asc gear can’t be used in wvw then WvWers don’t bother spending cash to get them and Anet loses money. They know their WvW sucks so they try and keep the WvWers longer in the game by pushing them into lackluster repetitive pve grinds.

At least 300g -optimistic estimate- to get one ascended weapon? Yes please..

Be prepared to have the same boring farm/grind pattern repeated with Asc armor.

If they were serious about game play, they would move the stats/free gear from spvp into wvw while removing silly things that favor bad players and numbers like downed states and AOE caps.