Guild Wars 2

Problem
Originally EotM was added as a waiting map, for when you were in a queue for regular WvW. Hard to believe at this point but true.
Well it is clear now that WvW is not as active as it was 2013, and EotM just sucks additional potential players away from the other maps, lured by the constantly-populated megaserver matchups. So it not only has outlived its usefulness as a waiting area, but is actively detrimental. There is no reason anymore to include a waiting map if the regular WvW maps aren’t filled to the brim, or indeed played on much, at all.

Solution
Make EotM a regular WvW map. I do not think it is as well designed as Alpine or EB with its insta-death opportunities galore, but it would keep the map in the game while solving the issue of it vacuuming away players. EotM could then be further improved for core WvW gameplay.
In regards to a waiting map, if there are n people currently in queues across all regional servers, copies of one of the four maps are created and queueing players are asked if they want to visit such a copy. It would only persist for a single few-hour match. If there are no or very few queues globally, there would be no such option.
Also I realise many people have become fond of the KT gameplay of EotM, but considering it only exists as a perversion of the original purpose and actively harms the parent game mode, I think the change I suggest is reasonable.

I can see a sea of tears from ktrain people… lots of “gold” and “platinum” ranked heores.

Eotm became a farm fest and it is a complete separated game mode. I confess that I went there a good number of times to level alts and recently to farm heroe points. But other than the map current state is useless for roamers and defenders.

Talking about the map design I like it, and think it could be fun if it was included in the regular wvw with ppt, it would be nice to have maps with different styles that demands different strategies as desert and eotm does.

I have been talking about having the 4 maps in regular wvw instead of 3 clone borderlands, servers does not need home borderlands, they all could be like EBG or Eotm, just the spawn and a keep with wp close to it. No citadels are needed let us conquer it like we do with SM.

They say EotM was created for our queues. But more likely it exists only because of the China launch (that’s when it was release). They were afraid of the inevitable MASSIVE WvW queues at launch.

Shouldn’t WvW be made more attractive, so that players go there on their own, instead of removing any alternatives?

You are asking something similar to the dungeons nerf, SW nerf etc., just to lure people into more desirable content. Do you think this is a good idea in general?

saturn.4810:

Shouldn’t WvW be made more attractive, so that players go there on their own, instead of removing any alternatives?

You are asking something similar to the dungeons nerf, SW nerf etc., just to lure people into more desirable content. Do you think this is a good idea in general?

This is what we have come to. Edge of the Mist is its own mode. They should put it in the ads, “We also have a champ farm map!”. Maybe should gets its own forum section.

should be 4 diff maps:
1 EB
2. EOTM
3. Old Borderland
4. New Borderland

I think it should become much harder to push EotM into overflow and make it into an more open pvp map with 3 sides. At the end of the match you win an pve reward depneing on your place but you must do something to get that reward the more you do the better the level of the reward base off of your teams placement. That and have rewards hold for the players who play say 30 mins in a match but need to call it a day so when you log back in you have your reward waiting for you base off of what you did in that 30 mins and your side placement.

So i am saying make it into an event that is pvp mostly with a gold sliver and bronze level of rewards that has 3 tables 1st 2ed and 3ed to get from. At the same time comply cutting it off from wvw so no more “free supple” for the wining side (all though supple is a lot easier to get now in wvw due to the upgrade changes) making it more its own thing. It would be nice to see a wvw mastery track that works mostly with EotM so gilders, aoe pick up, some fast paths, “safely ropes” (if you fall off the side you have a small window on a long cd to pull your self back up), and i guess better loot.

I think EotM can become a realy good alternative to wvw for ppl on worlds who are low rank or for ppl who given up on weekly match up and want to go for more of the 1hr match up.

It may become a good ideal to have 4 or so version of EotM and comply remove overflowing the map. Unless this cause the popularly to become bigger then you would need more then 4 version. Though i feel all rewards you get from caping things and killing mobs or other pve events rewards should drop (keep killing players rewards high) but have the pve event rewards come at the end of the match reward.

You got it all backwards.

Its WvW that has outlived its usefulness.

Everything in GW2 has been moving toward having no servers, just instancing. Its cheaper to manage because you can power down everything you dont need, unlike constantly running instances that need to be there all the time. Its a matter of having a world system that is hands off no maintenance. One that run itself as effective as possible. We’ve already seen the clear indication that Anet no longer want to have anything to do with such trivial things like WvW resets.

We may not like it – I sure dont – but I have no doubt that’s the way its heading.

Dawdler.8521:

You got it all backwards.

Its WvW that has outlived its usefulness.

Bingo.

EotM is where it’s at. The old WvW is tired and old, which is why it’s dying. It’s also why the hardcore “real WvWers” are starting to play EotM. lol

Personally, at this point, I’d just have 3 instances of the same map, one for each server, and rotate them monthly until a good WvW map can be made. From what I remember, map creation is an 8 week development cycle, so… if they did a month of 3 desert maps, a month of 3 EBs, and a month of 3 alpine map, that would give them an extra 4 weeks to do a bit of actual research, talk with actual WvW players, get actual feedback, and do any post creation tinkering. They could even add in a month of 3 EotM’s, to give time for beta testing to make sure they actually got it right.

Or, they could just kinda say “Suck it” and not do anything.

There werw good fights in EotM yesterday. We did meet guild groups that didn’t use guardians like normal lamer guilds.

Firebaall.5127:

EotM is where it’s at. The old WvW is tired and old, which is why it’s dying. It’s also why the hardcore “real WvWers” are starting to play EotM. lol

Is this why EotM is alot more fun these day?? Tons of people and some awesome fights.

Closing EoTM won’t bring players back to the Desert(ed) BL maps, they’ll just move on to something or somewhere else.

You can’t force players to play in the new BL if they don’t want to.

Without EoTM some people who have looked on EB, then BL, seen no one and find the only map with people is EoTM, will just not bother staying logged in.

If it out grew being useful, wouldn’t everyone simply not use it?

It’s marginally funny that this thread pops up the minute it stops being a loot trawl

Eotm is still a horrible map for actual WvW. Imbalanced keep design with tight corridors and bridges that allow for, were there enough people who cared to defend, enough unassailable superior arrow carts to make the entire map an unfun siegefest bore.

I don’t think EotM is a Ktrain anymore. Alot more defending going on there which actually makes it fun for me. Hey go see for yourselves! Outlived its usefulness you say? Maybe a new game in town

It can be fun when there’s no siege. There are several guilds who lead their zergs around assjamming one another, which is amusing, reminiscent of 2013 wvw where everyone is terrible and you can hammer train down twice your numbers with a ptv geared blob. It would still be a terrible map if it were used in, say, a tournament, where people actually cared to win.

Perhaps it is usefulness that has outlived EotM???

albotelho.2931:

I can see a sea of tears from ktrain people… lots of “gold” and “platinum” ranked heores.

Eotm became a farm fest and it is a complete separated game mode. I confess that I went there a good number of times to level alts and recently to farm heroe points. But other than the map current state is useless for roamers and defenders.

Talking about the map design I like it, and think it could be fun if it was included in the regular wvw with ppt, it would be nice to have maps with different styles that demands different strategies as desert and eotm does.

I have been talking about having the 4 maps in regular wvw instead of 3 clone borderlands, servers does not need home borderlands, they all could be like EBG or Eotm, just the spawn and a keep with wp close to it. No citadels are needed let us conquer it like we do with SM.

At this point with the population what it is you could almost make EotM map the only map for WvW, even in T1. Take it out of the cross-server situation it exists in right now and make it THE map. OR conversely you could substitute it for EBG. There simply aren’t enough players available for real WvW to have an “Overflow” map.

Firebaall.5127:

Dawdler.8521:

You got it all backwards.

Its WvW that has outlived its usefulness.

Bingo.

EotM is where it’s at. The old WvW is tired and old, which is why it’s dying. It’s also why the hardcore “real WvWers” are starting to play EotM. lol

Cannot tell if sarcastic or not.
When the “real WvWers” go to EotM it’s to level an alt or to farm HP. If EotM actually became THE map that “real WvW” happened on, the KTrains would end almost immediately.

You already see this sometimes as there will be the occasional instance where one side dominates, and the other two sides are essentially bottled up, and hunted until they leave the map. This is almost always due to an organized guild deciding to raid in EotM for the night.

Maybe this is the way it will go. Wouldn’t be too terrible, it is a far more target rich environment right now than the regular BLs.

Daggos Skelito.2910:

Firebaall.5127:

EotM is where it’s at. The old WvW is tired and old, which is why it’s dying. It’s also why the hardcore “real WvWers” are starting to play EotM. lol

Is this why EotM is alot more fun these day?? Tons of people and some awesome fights.

Yeah… I was in there today unlocking my Herald spec and was shocked to see the amount of intense fights going on all day. No more zergs trying their best to avoid each other so as to not disrupt the karma train.

Had a lot intense fights last week. Yesterday my pug zerg managed to destroy a huge guild group.

Im not sure whats going on with EotM but its a bloody battlefield now and alot more fun. We fought 10min to get green keep and had to fight to keep it lol! What a battle

all i see here is people are upset that THEIR game mode is dying out, and they want to destroy another map/game mode to force people to play with them in the way that THEY like, rather than what other people like. Which I think is very, very sad.

You should be advocating changes to your preferred game mode if you do not like it, and let the other folks play where they like.

I remember when EOTM came out and it was suppose to be as i understood it a place you go when queue for wvw was taking long. But it makes no sense, because you can not be in queue for wvw while in EOTM.
I have been saying that EOTM gives wvw’ers fair weather players an escape when wvw is boring no commander/losing they can just run off to EOTM and ktrain themsevles to completion instead of working hard for their server.

This week EOTM had plenty of people to play with, but every time I tried to play in a borderland or EB, it was dead.

I agree with the OP. I, too, have already leveled all my alts in EotM… so it’s no longer useful

Taxidriver.2043:

should be 4 diff maps:
1 EB
2. EOTM
3. Old Borderland
4. New Borderland

emendez.3705:

I remember when EOTM came out and it was suppose to be as i understood it a place you go when queue for wvw was taking long. But it makes no sense, because you can not be in queue for wvw while in EOTM.
I have been saying that EOTM gives wvw’ers fair weather players an escape when wvw is boring no commander/losing they can just run off to EOTM and ktrain themsevles to completion instead of working hard for their server.

This MIGHT have been the case in the beginning when EOTMs was first introduced, I agree. But now with the borderlands being mostly dead, or (if you’re in the upper tiers) EB being queued to hell and back due to everyone and their mother detesting the new maps, even the WvW hardcores are now jumping into eotms just to get some action.

If anything EotM is more WvW than the new maps,

The new WvW maps are horrible, they are massive and don’t work for this game, with the number of people you can have on a map, if you could get 500 ppl per sever per map then maybe, but the small numbers compared to the map size doesn’t work, I jumped into WvW today and all boarderlands where empty, EB wasn’t much better,

So I jumped into EotM and there was 3 map zergs on the map, all fighting each other, no K-Train just fighting, I seen WvW guilds in there battling it out, people in chat saying they would rather EotM battles than WvW because the maps suck,

Anet hammered the final nail into the WvW coffin with the HoT release and the maps they brought with it, so you either Queue for EB, move into EotM or go home and find another game.

To me, eotm is a place to go when there isnt enough on for regular wvw or the match up is craptastic (70 percent of the time for us lately). Changing it to a regular wvw map would mean there is no purpose at all for it.

Daggos Skelito.2910:

Im not sure whats going on with EotM but its a bloody battlefield now and alot more fun. We fought 10min to get green keep and had to fight to keep it lol! What a battle

o-O Must play EotM then cause WvW is dead as kitten.

Still… I remember those glorious old days when we fought 3 hours for 1 tower in Eternal Battlegrounds and then fought 2 hours more defending it.

I’m afraid even EotM with megaservers can’t get to that level of amazing battles, but hey 10 minutes for a keep is a good start.

Dawdler.8521:

You got it all backwards.

Its WvW that has outlived its usefulness.

So what could we get instead? AvAvA? I personally have always been against splitting up servers because population on servers is never balanced. But in EotM most of the time green is dominating so that really means that it isn’t balanced either. (I wonder if an algoritm for balance is even possible, legitimate question)

There is very much a competitive scene in EoTM, there is constant movement and action and you get 2-3 big Zerg v Zerg fights per hour.

Many of the people are there to k train and the place is still full of up levels. Also the no server setup means coordination is bad.

But EoTM is a legit game mode. If anything it’s like the PvPvE of other successful games.

EoTM needs to be un nerfed too.

nekretaal.6485:

Many of the people are there to k train and the place is still full of up levels. Also the no server setup means coordination is bad.

Yeah, those are the downsides to EOTM for people who consider WvW serious business. Also, no PPT means that a substantial segment of the WvW scene will never accept is as a PVP alternative. But for those who just like fights, it’s the best thing going on right now.

Lack of coordination is good thing.

Currently using it to gain hero points on my characters – it is going to take a while.

Avigrus.2871:

Currently using it to gain hero points on my characters – it is going to take a while.

Without exp boosters, it certainly will.

This was experimental content which has long since led us to certain conclusions.

I only went to EOTM once in a while. Now with this terrible desert map, I go there more frequently because EB is queued.

Yeah. I’d like if we got rid of the concept of the Edge as an overflow map:

• I would add bonuses for all worlds sharing team color the better each one does.
  • Then add a way for players over a certain rank and WvW experience to be a ‘mercenary’ that helps in those other worlds when your own worlds are full or their worlds too empty. Doing that would give volunteering Marcenaries a bonus effect better than Outnumbered.
• If even with the mercenary system there’s no room on any world, then an ‘overflow’ map would be made with the current Borderlands map. The bases would be given based on the scoring, the lowest scoring team would get the main base.
• The edge would be reworked into a third Borderlands, with gliders usable within certain ‘wind corridors’ and mounted machineguns to take down gliding players and other cool additions.

Then we’d have:

• At least 3 Borderlands in a rotation: Alpine, Desert, and Fractal.
• Veteran players helping worlds in disadvantage, sharing their expertise.
• Players more focused in the current map of the rotation instead populating the edge and ignoring their world’s maps.

If you removed the rewards from EOTM, there’d be only 5 guys there, and 3 of them would be the the EOTM designer’s wife, grandmother and ex-wife/dog.

People go there to level alts, k-train or farm badges for their legendary.

People go to WvW even with the bad rewards. WvW is an end in itself. EOTM is a means to an end.

Samis.1750:

If you removed the rewards from EOTM, there’d be only 5 guys there, and 3 of them would be the the EOTM designer’s wife, grandmother and ex-wife/dog.

People go there to level alts, k-train or farm badges for their legendary.

People go to WvW even with the bad rewards. WvW is an end in itself. EOTM is a means to an end.

If you removed the rewards from WvW there would be no one in the maps ***oh wait nevermind.

The point is people hated EotM because its not what they wanted, but the hard truth now is, that EotM is now WvW and the boarderlands are the slow K-Trains, and the more and more PvE pugs that realise this, the more the boarderlands will be K-Trained and the WvW guilds will move into EotM for the battles.

Ok I Did It.2854:

Samis.1750:

If you removed the rewards from EOTM, there’d be only 5 guys there, and 3 of them would be the the EOTM designer’s wife, grandmother and ex-wife/dog.

People go there to level alts, k-train or farm badges for their legendary.

People go to WvW even with the bad rewards. WvW is an end in itself. EOTM is a means to an end.

If you removed the rewards from WvW there would be no one in the maps ***oh wait nevermind.

The point is people hated EotM because its not what they wanted, but the hard truth now is, that EotM is now WvW and the boarderlands are the slow K-Trains, and the more and more PvE pugs that realise this, the more the boarderlands will be K-Trained and the WvW guilds will move into EotM for the battles.

What irony that is…

Delete EOTM and all three borderslands will become populated in each match up, they might even become involved in the match up while grinding levels and karma.

EotM is still important to a good number of players. It is still the fastest way to level elites for players that hate general PvE. It also a place to go where a player can find others to run around with regardless of how poorly their server is doing or how empty it is at that moment.

This might work. But of course removing something will always get complains…

Yup.

Please delete this map.

Sirendor.1394:

Dawdler.8521:

You got it all backwards.

Its WvW that has outlived its usefulness.

So what could we get instead?

Maybe it’s time to necro my old proposal
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Proposal-for-a-new-competive-WvW