Guild Wars 2

Lord Kuru.3685:

They say EotM was created for our queues. But more likely it exists only because of the China launch (that’s when it was release). They were afraid of the inevitable MASSIVE WvW queues at launch.

It was announced at a time when there were actually queues on all 4 maps during reset nights as well as much of the weekend prime times, at least in the upper 3 WvW tiers. It also clearly tested and showcased some new WvW map mechanics in the process, but it did have a role in being utilized for WvW queue overflow.

By the time EoTM was implemented though there no longer remained a frequent need for it as there was previously. WvW tournies burned out folks between seasons and there became no need for EotM almost immediately after its induction into the game. Believe it or not, there were 4 map queues developing here and there during non-reset prime times even prior to the first tourny season being announced. Don’t know what you had till it’s gone.

A temporary deactivation of EotM for the time being would be interesting to experience, though T1 does sometimes get 4 map queues during resets and some weekend peaks… /shrug

Nah ppl like playing EoTM. It has a niche. If nothing else is going on you can always go to EoTM and stomp some up levels. Or level your alts and get roflstomped.

With so many mistakes in WvW it makes no sense to delete stuff that ppl actually like.

akeldama.6709:

A temporary deactivation of EotM for the time being would be interesting to experience, though T1 does sometimes get 4 map queues during resets and some weekend peaks… /shrug

You will not notice any difference in your WvW. A 40 ppl EotM zerg will add 2-6 people to your match, if all of them would go to WvW (which I seriously doubt).

So in mean you get 1 person per wvw-map for each EotM instance that exist.
They will feel very lonely and leave soon.

In guess a lot of people are in EotM because the felt lost and lonely and even unwanted (to follow guild groups, when no public is in sight) in WvW.

Turnign it off + do some rework in BL. Only turn off EoTM would just get more complains…
Rework needed:
Waypoints that don´t get contested easily (Shooting a wall or guard should not be enough) For Keeps only inner wall contest it.
So people can reach points faster and its a stratecic advantage to hold towers/keeps.
Make doliaks and camps (suplies) much more important! Base WvW on resources.
Give XP and loot boons for holding keeps + towers.

Then turn off EoTM and only use it if theres a real total overflow in players and only on that cluster.

Wolfric.9380:

Then turn off EoTM and only use it if theres a real total overflow in players and only on that cluster.

You mean I have to transfer to T1_to be able to play EotM? Very bad side-effect of your proposal.

Face it: Server-based WvW has outlived its usefulness, Mega-Server based EotM is the only thing that still works a bit (it could be better balanced, if server would go or be ignored in team assignment)

Made a mistake here. EotM´s concept is fine.

I would consider removing borderland concept.
Take the desert map, build a castle in the center and add towers and a third access point.
So make a variant of eternal battleground.
Now we have two diffrent battlegrounds.

Turning off EoTM won’t push more players into mainstream wvw. All you will get is a bigger q for EB and the BL will still be ghost towns, as people will just go elsewhere to level up toons rather than waste hours in a BL that gives so little rewards.

Wolfric.9380:

Made a mistake here. EotM´s concept is fine.

I would consider removing borderland concept.
Take the desert map, build a castle in the center and add towers and a third access point.
So make a variant of eternal battleground.
Now we have two diffrent battlegrounds.

+1

For the rest, removing EotM will not bring much players “back” to the WvW maps. They will just go somewhere else to farm, quit, or just do something else.

joneirikb.7506:

Wolfric.9380:

Made a mistake here. EotM´s concept is fine.

I would consider removing borderland concept.
Take the desert map, build a castle in the center and add towers and a third access point.
So make a variant of eternal battleground.
Now we have two diffrent battlegrounds.

+1

For the rest, removing EotM will not bring much players “back” to the WvW maps. They will just go somewhere else to farm, quit, or just do something else.

That’s the thing though. Does basically the Queensdale champ train need its own map that gives WXP as well?

styx.7294:

joneirikb.7506:

Wolfric.9380:

Made a mistake here. EotM´s concept is fine.

I would consider removing borderland concept.
Take the desert map, build a castle in the center and add towers and a third access point.
So make a variant of eternal battleground.
Now we have two diffrent battlegrounds.

+1

For the rest, removing EotM will not bring much players "back" to the WvW maps. They will just go somewhere else to farm, quit, or just do something else.

That’s the thing though. Does basically the Queensdale champ train need its own map that gives WXP as well?

Well, I don’t mind if they have their own map, it is certainly better than having them in WvW or Queensdale yelling bloody murder in map chat, hated that, still avoid Queensdale to this day for that reason.

No-one else wanted EotM after the first month of release, so why not let them have it if they enjoy it ? Seriously, as long as people don’t disturb others and enjoy themselves, let them. The problem with the QD-Champ train wasn’t what they where doing in itself, but that it bothered the rest of the map.

Edit: Man I almost forgot, this also means I can GANK Queensdale champ trainers! I’m sold!!!

EOTM was a horrid idea from the jump, that backwardly addressed the basic incentive to do WvW.

See, in theory, WvW is supposed to be about server wins, teamwork, etc. This used to actually be the case back around launch when holding WvW objectves actually gave your server a buff, and thus serveres mattered outside of WvW.

Anet transitioned away fro this system because the entire thing led to server swapping. Why? WvW was all reward and no risk or cost for the benefits it handed out.

You didn’t have to step foot in to WvW to benefit from its buffs, people got antsy about being “penalized” by rolling on a bad wvw server, and people stacked to better servers, creating a snowballing solution.

The problem with WvW was always giving players the ablity to choose which team they are on, and allowing them to change that team whenever they feel like for a few gems.

WvW quickly became about personal rewards as the entire “goal” of WvW, the points system, awarded people nothing of value or significance for winning, and thus maps quickly emptied once a victory seemed decided.

EOTM was a response to people being unable to que, and thus being unable to get these personal rewards.

WvW is a broken game type from the ground up. EOTM is symptomatic of its design flaws.

Any team game, especially one on the scale of WvW that primarily rewards on an individual performance basis rather than on the merit of winning as a team will be played with a focus on personal rewards rather than team success.

HoT’s meta level and participation mechanics are actually a better system for WvW than how WvW works in the first place. They encourage map wide wins and mass cooperation rather than individual effort and efficiently farming events and objectives to the detriment of the team.

On top of that, upgrades, and now the new tactics system fail to recognize a critical flaw in the ownership scheme of the objectives. You are guaranteed to lose objectives, and thus guaranteed to lose any financial investment in them.

There is no “win” scenario when looking at guild claiming systems. You waste money on a temporary claim that will eventually be taken from you due to everyone going to bed or the map resetting. Owning these objectives doesn’t supploy you with a corresponding economic benefit to offset the cost.

When you put together the fact that the whole move prizes individual rewards more than team wins, and that the concept of ownership is nothing more than an expensive and endless money pit, is it any wonder that nobody cares around the objectives, and would rather flip them so they can reclaim them later?

WvW is broken because there are no rewards for ownership, no way to reliably maintain ownership, and no incentive to play the gametype as intended beyond a meaningless number on a leaderboard.

Why would you waste materials on WvW tactics when you know for a fact you’re not going to make back what you spent by successfully using them to defend an objective or overtake the map? In fact, “winning” a map in WvW is actually less rewarding than losing it on purpose, as it drives the defenders away ensuring less people to kill for bags and less people to re-flip objectives so you can get rewards for re-claiming them.

EOTM is the purest example of what WvW’s reward systems actually encourage players to do.

EOTM isn’t broken. WvW is a broken design from the ground up.

I don’t see how a player that likes WvW won’t help his/her server in the
proper maps and would choose to play EotM for any reason other than
the loot and the xp.
The new borderland as a map is the best open word PvP map in GW2 so far.
Far better than the Alpine Border and EB.
Maybe it came too late,after most of the WvW crowd moved to other games
and the remaining WvW players can’t sustain it.
And the drastic gameplay changes where not really needed.
Automated upgrades wtf…WvW was already striped and dumbed down enough
without this.
All the PvE bs surely has not place in WvW,and is killing the game mode.
But really,with this lack of population even the Alpine border would be empty.
EotM players surely won’t move from the goose that lays the golden eggs with
1% of the effort they would have to put in the main maps.
If they removed loot and xp gains from EotM how many players do you think
would still play it?
Because I can tell you,if they removed loot from the main maps the players that
are fond of open world PvP combat in large maps would still play them.
They’d complain about it in the forums,but they’d still play.
Maybe WvW will ultimately fall victim of it’s nature.
It was never focused and expansive enough to keep the pure RvR crowd
engaged,and it is too much for PvE oriented players.
The EotM format seems to fit this game better,I must admit.
But telling me that EotM is a better PvP map than the Desert Borderland…..

Deleting EOTM won’t bring me back into WvW. I’ll just spend more time in sPvP and PvE.

Come down to a tier 666 server like FC with no players and see how much fun the new BLs are. Empty maps.

EOTM, on the other hand, has more action than ever and some days I get many good fights.

Whether you like the new BLs or hate them (I hate them), WvW needs players to be viable.

And did I mention the new BLs are lousy? Seriously, give me EBG or EOTM or I’m not even interested.

Jamais vu.5284:

Problem
Originally EotM was added as a waiting map, for when you were in a queue for regular WvW. Hard to believe at this point but true.
Well it is clear now that WvW is not as active as it was 2013, and EotM just sucks additional potential players away from the other maps, lured by the constantly-populated megaserver matchups. So it not only has outlived its usefulness as a waiting area, but is actively detrimental. There is no reason anymore to include a waiting map if the regular WvW maps aren’t filled to the brim, or indeed played on much, at all.

Solution
Make EotM a regular WvW map. I do not think it is as well designed as Alpine or EB with its insta-death opportunities galore, but it would keep the map in the game while solving the issue of it vacuuming away players. EotM could then be further improved for core WvW gameplay.
In regards to a waiting map, if there are n people currently in queues across all regional servers, copies of one of the four maps are created and queueing players are asked if they want to visit such a copy. It would only persist for a single few-hour match. If there are no or very few queues globally, there would be no such option.
Also I realise many people have become fond of the KT gameplay of EotM, but considering it only exists as a perversion of the original purpose and actively harms the parent game mode, I think the change I suggest is reasonable.

No, sorry, wvw participation sucks now because of the new maps.

Change eotm and those peeps are not going to wvw.

Rewards aren’t great in eotm buddy, you can ktrain/gtrain/bluegreensalvagetrain in much better places.

Eotm for many is fast paced, fun and has many participants, so the devs are not going to kill it.

I’m sure the devs have their “pve tailored” specializations planned just for wvw so all the legendary and “cool stuff for pve” hunters will fill up the maps for a couple months until they craft their +5 sparkly rainbow sword of mordrem slaying and “made for pve only” invisibile cloaks of condition removal.

Also, don’t worry, the devs will change the maps to megaserver red, green and blue to make wvw seem “alive” and healthy again because they will not change these bad maps back.

Dayra.7405:

Sirendor.1394:

Dawdler.8521:

You got it all backwards.

Its WvW that has outlived its usefulness.

So what could we get instead?

Maybe it’s time to necro my old proposal
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Proposal-for-a-new-competive-WvW

Who knows! Doubt Anet will pay it any attention though. :p

EDIT: someone already made a new thread along your lines
(https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Idea-Replace-Servers-with-Alliances/first#post5748295)

No, EotM is still useful for those times when you just want to screw around in a WvW-like area without your server’s PPT being on the line. Besides, a nice ktrain can be relaxing…at least when you don’t have guild groups coming in and ganging up on one of the colors because they don’t have many people on.