Guild Wars 2

^this. EOTM was actually a lot of fun, although some of its pve should have been toned down. if eotm was relevant to wvw score, I would have continued playing it. cant wait to see the new borderlands…and I hope EB gets a revamp soon as well.

“navigate treacherous heights”

If it’s anything like a JP, or has too many ‘fear them all off the edge’ mechanics, people won’t play on it after the initial rush.

Rewarding defending sounds good in theory, but will wait to see if that actually works in practice- if they mean the reward is 1% extra magic find for your server whilst you hold that tower, there is no incentive for you to hold it in wvw- you’re stuck in the tower getting nothing?

So, after two and a half years massive and free PvE and SPvP updates and little ones for WvW (they only update their lies), when you finally have prepared something for us, we WvW players have to pay real money for this privilege.
Can not happen.
Maybe next WvW update will be after two and a half – three years on the second expansion. HYPE
The only thing that makes me happy is that the only Dev, who has never lied WvW community and always took care of us is back and posts in the forum.
Thank you.

It would have to be a free update or they would be required to split wvw between the expansion and base

Lord Kuru.3685:

Very clearly a natural extension of EotM. It’s pretty clear they’ve learned nothing. Plus zero talk of dealing with what’s really killing WvW: copulation and coverage.

Copulation? You think the player base having more of a social life now is adversely affecting the game? XD

EOTM.2 Simple enough.

I think of you are all taking this out of proportion…you have seen 1 picture of the map, which looks pretty sweet to me. You think because they are on a cliff that the map is all cliffs, but are there not cliffs by garrison? What about hills? There are plenty of cliffs in current WvW, but all of you negate that because the terrain coloring is the same as EOTM.
I understand some of you just look for ways to be bitter, but if this map didnt come out and nothing happened, I garuntee ur list of what Anet hasn’t done would include no new maps. So kitten and enjoy something for the first time in your life.

oscuro.9720:

I think of you are all taking this out of proportion…you have seen 1 picture of the map, which looks pretty sweet to me. You think because they are on a cliff that the map is all cliffs, but are there not cliffs by garrison? What about hills? There are plenty of cliffs in current WvW, but all of you negate that because the terrain coloring is the same as EOTM.
I understand some of you just look for ways to be bitter, but if this map didnt come out and nothing happened, I garuntee ur list of what Anet hasn’t done would include no new maps. So kitten and enjoy something for the first time in your life.

Their own description of of the map emphasizes vertical heights and knocking people off using environmental traps.

EOTM was looking pretty sweet too at the start, and look what happen.

its the “interesting mechanics” part im really afraid of and smells of gimmicks and pve. wvwers want big fights, thats all. also.. was there really ANY positive feedback about the vertical design? because all i remember was threads about how skyhammer needs to go out of spvp rotation because of that. EOTM isnt even considered WvW by wvw players, just a replacement for queensdale karma trains, i wonder what “lessons” they learned…

the really burning issues of wvw players like coverage and hacking are not adressed at all. of course i will still buy the addon because 60 bucks is nothing to me.. but am i looking forward to it, excited? not at all, i fear we will look back to this day and remember the good old wvw as it is now.

Lord Kuru.3685:

oscuro.9720:

I think of you are all taking this out of proportion…you have seen 1 picture of the map, which looks pretty sweet to me. You think because they are on a cliff that the map is all cliffs, but are there not cliffs by garrison? What about hills? There are plenty of cliffs in current WvW, but all of you negate that because the terrain coloring is the same as EOTM.
I understand some of you just look for ways to be bitter, but if this map didnt come out and nothing happened, I garuntee ur list of what Anet hasn’t done would include no new maps. So kitten and enjoy something for the first time in your life.

Their own description of of the map emphasizes vertical heights and knocking people off using environmental traps.

Since I do that now, and my play adheres to their description of the new map(s), then based on what your suggesting, is not to worry. I agree.

As long as match-structure and balance aren’t fix, WvW and EotM are unplayable.
Be it on an old or a new map doesn’t really matter, being out-manned or outmanning is always equally boring.

How the hell is this gonna work? Players who pay get to play in new WvW, the others can go to hell??? How will this affect balance? What about population splitting? This seems a really bad idea if it’s going to be limited to players who buy the expansion only…

I’m wondering how it will work too. There are a few possibilities and it depends on whether they add the map to the existing WvW world, or rotate it in and out with the other BL’s on different weeks.

If they add it in

Then the people who don’t buy the expansion will simply play WvW as it is now.

I will also assume that they are doing some sort of server merge or alliance system or mega server. Because that would be way too much territory to cover for any one server. (Or they only care about China where they may have enough players).

If they rotate it in and out on different weeks

Then I will assume that if you did not buy the expansion then you can only play EB that week. I don’t see how they could allow people who don’t buy the expansion to play on a map that other people paid for.

The problem with WvW is that it is many things to many people…I am not ANET apologist, but even I can admit it is basically impossible to develop properly.

All they can really do is listen to everyone and try to implement something that appeals to well…everyone…But we know that in RL when you try to do that you end up pleasing: no one.

So the question still remains: What is WvW?
Is it blobbing down doors? Yes.
Is it solo-5man roaming? Yes.
Is it siege turtleing up in a keep for hours on end? Yes
Is it running around with your guild trying to fight other guilds in the open field? Yes.
Is it an endless karma train of PPT? Yes.
etc. etc.

Me personally I would be good with having one large deathmatch style map with everyone running around trying to smash each others face in…But I am only a small part of the larger picture.

Rimmy.9217:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Very clearly a natural extension of EotM. It’s pretty clear they’ve learned nothing. Plus zero talk of dealing with what’s really killing WvW: copulation and coverage.

Copulation? You think the player base having more of a social life now is adversely affecting the game? XD

:D I lolled…

Devon.8306:

You will all get to see a lot more of the map soon. We’ve certainly tried to learn lessons from the original map as well as Edge of the Mists in order to take this new version to a new level for WvW.

Hopefully the lesson you guys learned from Edge of the Mists was “don’t make anything like Edge of the Mists ever again”

I realize the PAX event wasn’t the time to bring it up, but the population and coverage issues need to be discussed and solved before the expansion hits imo.

The playerbase as it is right now simply can’t support the number of servers the game has. Even with the expansion bringing back a lot of players, few servers saw nightly queues outside of Tier2 and Tier3 and below have been a disaster for about a year now.

Are they considering merging some of the servers?
Are they considering changing WvW to follow the ‘worldserver’ approach to map cloning?
Are they considering anything?

We’ve had several CDIs on this very topic and absolutely nothing has been followed up on or replied to.

Atherakhia.4086:

Are they considering merging some of the servers?
Are they considering changing WvW to follow the ‘worldserver’ approach to map cloning?
Are they considering anything?

The expansion map announcement does make it sound like they must be doing something further for WvW before HoT hits and since spring is usually when they do one of their semi-annual balance patches, I am going to assume we will see hints of that something by then. The question is what and which direction they are going to take it. I am not going to fret too much until I see more about about where they are heading as ANET usually has an idea of how they want things to be whether based in reality or not.

I can see several different possible ways to change WvW for the better and a couple of them could be huge so for now I just have to stay mellow and not dream too big or get my hopes too high. I imagine even if they told us stuff now and some of us hated it they would not be changing course anyways so might as well roll with it or find a new hobby. No sense in filling up forums too much with our WvW wet dreams.

My concern with the ‘maybe something but who knows’ is I’m on one of the servers that is in complete upheval right now. One week we’re in one tier where we do well at our prime time, but by the time I wake up we’re 10-20k behind and that gap increases as the week goes on.

Then the following weekly reset we’re thrown into another tier where we completely dominate the other 2 servers even if they do work together. This isn’t fun for them or us.

So we go 1 week where we try our best and still lose because of coverage and tag teaming issues. We then go 1 week (if we’re lucky it’s only 1 week) where we have no competition whatsoever.

This has caused a large number of people to leave and now we’re considering the same. It would be nice to know if ANYTHING has been learned, taken into consideration, or being done on any of this or if we should just go on presuming ANet honestly couldn’t care less about WvW whatsoever.

A little more info from an interview on Shacknews -

“All of the key, strategic locations provide strategic benefits to your world. Everything from providing abilities when you’re near your keep to preventing players from getting through chokepoints. The towers are the chokepoints of the map that prevent enemy army movement if they’re not able to break through. We’re really trying to place more strategic emphasis on that and, as part of that, we’ll be dealing with a lot of things that World v. World players are excited about seeing. That includes truly awesome battles and more strategic decision-making, the kind you would make in an RTS game, where you’re splitting your troops to attack different places, you’re bringing the army together, you’re scouting to determine where to go next, and we want to make that rewarding. The new Borderland map will feed into that, as well as the fundamental changes we’re making to the World v. World experience.”

Make of it what you will.

King Amadaeus.8619:

The problem with WvW is that it is many things to many people…I am not ANET apologist, but even I can admit it is basically impossible to develop properly.

There are a quite a few things they could do for QOL improvements that would get a lot of ppl off their backs: proper raid groups and more suggestions from the commander tag discussion; balance aoe abilities to enable them to become more zerg busting and don’t outright nerf zerg busting builds to oblivion ie. the old glamor mesmer build; revising the WvW titles to a reasonable level. Just to name 3.

Its worth noting that ESO is implementing ability changes to make zerg busting possible by small groups cause they realise how much of a problem blobbing is. And it has always had larger groups.

I’m just going to implore the devs right now…

PLEASE don’t make the map similar to EotM in terrain. I don’t want to think about “falling to my death” on every kitten turn, I want a map geared to fight.

Take a page from WoW’s Alterrac Valley map, create natural chokehold points to promote fighting…. don’t don’t DON’T make it a vertical map!

Altie.4571:

I’m just going to implore the devs right now…

PLEASE don’t make the map similar to EotM in terrain. I don’t want to think about “falling to my death” on every kitten turn, I want a map geared to fight.

Take a page from WoW’s Alterrac Valley map, create natural chokehold points to promote fighting…. don’t don’t DON’T make it a vertical map!

Way too late. They’ve already emphasized, as the main features of the map, the verticality and the environmental traps for knocking people off cliffs. There’s no way they’d make such drastic changes at this point.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

I think this will sum things up nicely.

You won the thread. GG

misterman.1530:

Andrew Clear.1750:

Confirmed, new map for WvW, Borderland rotation, core changes to WvW, including defense becoming more important.

I am hoping they somehow provide a handicap for vastly outnumbered servers. Otherwise, a new map is just something else we don’t have the numbers to cover.

From what I have noticed, below t3, all the close matches, are close because all 3 servers have different times when they are strong. Good balance for PPT, not so much for fights.

Victory.2879:

“navigate treacherous heights”

If it’s anything like a JP, or has too many ‘fear them all off the edge’ mechanics, people won’t play on it after the initial rush.

Rewarding defending sounds good in theory, but will wait to see if that actually works in practice- if they mean the reward is 1% extra magic find for your server whilst you hold that tower, there is no incentive for you to hold it in wvw- you’re stuck in the tower getting nothing?

They need to give equivalent rewards for defending as you gain from capping, and not some lame useless reward. Players need personal rewards as well, give them loots and XP!!

I agree 100% on the Landscape of the map. If it is a fall/ jump map people will rage quit the game rather than play it.That is part of why no one takes EoTM seriously and only go there for fast leveling.

You can go train in jumping puzzles so you know how to jump in expansion.

Junkpile.7439:

You can go train in jumping puzzles so you know how to jump in expansion.

I know how to jump.. the issue is when I call for people to come save hills on our BL, and they said they would rather be set on fire than go to that map you see there is a problem with the map itself.. If people quit the game over a map, and refuse to play on it there is a problem with the map.
People play wvw to fight other players, not play Mario. We can play Mario all we want in obsidian sanctum already.