Guild Wars 2

Samhayn.2385:

Binafus.8153:

I love the Thief is easy to kill posts, clearly the problem is lack of skill by every other class besides the thief.

No it’s not a lack of skill with other classes a lot of people on other classes have no problem fighting thief. No what most of the people here are saying is the problems sits between the chair and the keyboard.

I notice you’re a Guardian and a Thief.

I won’t be able to help but laugh if/when ANet finally fixes the culling issue and all the people that once yelled ‘QQ mour!’ and ‘l2p noob’ are suddenly on the other end of things…
Oh wait… they will probably just move on to the next Flavor of the Month class…

Johje Holan.4607:

Samhayn.2385:

Binafus.8153:

I love the Thief is easy to kill posts, clearly the problem is lack of skill by every other class besides the thief.

No it’s not a lack of skill with other classes a lot of people on other classes have no problem fighting thief. No what most of the people here are saying is the problems sits between the chair and the keyboard.

I notice you’re a Guardian and a Thief.

And a Necro but he isn’t 80 yet. Why a necro? So i can prove to people that it has nothing to do with my class. Played Guard, Guard called op, Moved to Thief (s/d-SB) now Thief called op. Had people in my guild say I was good at WvW becuase my classes are ez-mode, looked around found engi,ranger and necro considered the weak classes so I rolled up necro.

Just give every class in game same possibility as thiefs have, go to glass cannon build and burst other glass cannon without showing themselfs in matter of seconds and all will be fine.

Ashanae.9362:

Just give every class in game same possibility as thiefs have, go to glass cannon build and burst other glass cannon without showing themselfs in matter of seconds and all will be fine.

Any class can.

You just have to be a norn.

Thieves are undoubtedly annoying what with stealth, burst, mobility (and of course culling)…

however,
I believe the main reason they are labelled as being OP is due to how devastating a fully geared lvl 80 can be against up-scaled players.

Other classes obliterate up-scaled players too, but you can normally see them and at least have time to react and fool yourself into thinking you have a chance…

The impact of a good thief putting you into downstate (and stomped) before you can even see your opponent can leave a rather bad taste in your mouth (even when you expect to lose due to level/gear differences).

skupuz.6940:

As a thief how do I protect my treb from getting hit by another treb?

You probably meant this to be a defense of thieves but in fact, thieves are one of the other classes that can potentially block treb shots.

Smoke Screen will block treb shots too. It’s a lot trickier than swirling winds which effects a huge area but if the incoming shot hits a smoke wall it will vanish, same as swirling winds.

Thought you were being clever and actually demonstrated another way thieves are an unbalanced profession. Best WvW tank, best DPS and has a chance to block treb shots.

Woaden.9425:

Thieves are easy to counter, here goes:

Against all:
Root/stun
AOE

Thief is in stealth almost all the time. You can’t target them for root/stun.

Really it’s not that “thieves are unbalanced” it’s that “stealth is unbalanced”, particularly with the way thieves can constantly reapply it.

Give stealth an 8 second cooldown between uses and I think almost all complaints would cease.

Nerf All The Things!!!

Front page of every forum on every topic on this site is riddled with “nerf this” and “nerf that” threads… last time I checked, if someone can do something to you, that means you can do it back to them… Every time you complain about what someone on the opposing server is doing to you, someone on your server is doing it to your enemy. Sounds fair to me.

I’m starting a movement… it’s called the “Stop The Nerf” Movement

SlimGenre.6417:

Nerf All The Things!!!

Front page of every forum on every topic on this site is riddled with “nerf this” and “nerf that” threads… last time I checked, if someone can do something to you, that means you can do it back to them… Every time you complain about what someone on the opposing server is doing to you, someone on your server is doing it to your enemy. Sounds fair to me.

I’m starting a movement… it’s called the “Stop The Nerf” Movement

ranger thread is devoid of nerf cries… just saying.

DaisyRogers.6837:

SlimGenre.6417:

Nerf All The Things!!!

Front page of every forum on every topic on this site is riddled with “nerf this” and “nerf that” threads… last time I checked, if someone can do something to you, that means you can do it back to them… Every time you complain about what someone on the opposing server is doing to you, someone on your server is doing it to your enemy. Sounds fair to me.

I’m starting a movement… it’s called the “Stop The Nerf” Movement

ranger thread is devoid of nerf cries… just saying.

no way, ranger definitely needs nerfed regarding damage output… oh, and they have way too much in the way of team support. And all rangers look like they’re French Muskateers too, so we should nerf the way they look

:p

I find it funny, Baddies come and complain about thieves, While a mesmer acutally can do the job Better then a thief, and also finish people off in stealth, They have the entire kit, I´m on FS and i mean all the DE servers we been facing are more or less all GC, P-T-V gear with Divnity,Bloodlust and Valk Jewels, Manage me to wreck stupids like this. But give me a bunker ele with same stats, a Mesmer, a Guardian, Engineer, well necro. and I will be struggling to do anything 1 vs1, Different is.. They are smart enough to surive their second set of CD, build def and try that!..

It’s true Thief can use Stealth too many times, it’s too much. Anyway, I have no problems with them when playing my Guardian, with the Hammer/Greatsword combination, there is nothing they can do, I even can kill 2 thieves at the same time (2vs1), normally kill one and the other run using one of the million stealths it has. But if you ask me, Mesmer clones are more ridiculous and annoying than any stealth, plus also can use stealth, some Mesmers confuse me a lot, specially in faster PvP like sPvP, not that much at WvW.

This is an MMO that people actually play, meaning there will be nerfs and buffs every month for every class till the game ends. Balance is a cycle and it’s a hard one to complete, but the best way to find out how to counter a class is to make one and play it in WvW.

TryGoogleThis.9570:

I find it funny, Baddies come and complain about thieves, While a mesmer acutally can do the job Better then a thief, and also finish people off in stealth, They have the entire kit, I´m on FS and i mean all the DE servers we been facing are more or less all GC, P-T-V gear with Divnity,Bloodlust and Valk Jewels, Manage me to wreck stupids like this. But give me a bunker ele with same stats, a Mesmer, a Guardian, Engineer, well necro. and I will be struggling to do anything 1 vs1, Different is.. They are smart enough to surive their second set of CD, build def and try that!..

A mesmer got cd on the skills so they can’t spam stealth. I got a mesmer and it’s alot harder to play than thief, and there’s the problem. Classes that is harder to play should give more back. Thiefs d/d is easy since they can run burst and stealth out and then regen initiative and then go back in and repeat untill you are dead. I got a thief and starting to wonder if i should make it my main now since it’s easier to play d/d and shortbow thief than mesmer and get the same burst. Thief is a low risk high reward profession and it should imo be low risk low reward.

Binafus.8153:

I love the Thief is easy to kill posts, clearly the problem is lack of skill by every other class besides the thief.

Not really. It’s just a lack of skill by certain players.

Slamz.5376:

Woaden.9425:

Thieves are easy to counter, here goes:

Against all:
Root/stun
AOE

Thief is in stealth almost all the time. You can’t target them for root/stun.

Really it’s not that “thieves are unbalanced” it’s that “stealth is unbalanced”, particularly with the way thieves can constantly reapply it.

Give stealth an 8 second cooldown between uses and I think almost all complaints would cease.

Not between all stealth uses. There just needs to be an 8 second cooldown on clock & dagger. That’s where ALL the stealth complaints come from. The other stealth skills aren’t a big deal.

On the flip side, thieves DPS needs to increase to compensate.

style.6173:

Not really. It’s just a lack of skill by certain players.

That’s just wrong. When i start a fight with other classes i get killed if they are better than me ofc but it’s like 30%-40% chance that they are better than me, but with thiefs even though i almost kill them they can just stealth out and run away and i feel cheated of a kill. And there is alot harder to meet any thief even those who are bad since they only need to spam 2 and do massive dmg, and that’s the problem. I don’t belive that almost every thief is better than every other profession because of player skill. Then you got those who say: Thief is designed to be better 1v1. Well i though every class was going to be good at everything if specced right. There is a problem with initiative and stealth since when i’m fighting mesmers they can’t just go stealth all the time since they got cd’s. And they do not have the mobility that the thief has.

style.6173:

Not between all stealth uses. There just needs to be an 8 second cooldown on clock & dagger. That’s where ALL the stealth complaints come from. The other stealth skills aren’t a big deal.

On the flip side, thieves DPS needs to increase to compensate.

I can agree with the cloack & dagger but no need to compensate with dps increase. They already got high burst, but instead compensate in other areas like cc or support.

Kormona.7156:

style.6173:

Not really. It’s just a lack of skill by certain players.

That’s just wrong. When i start a fight with other classes i get killed if they are better than me ofc but it’s like 30%-40% chance that they are better than me, but with thiefs even though i almost kill them they can just stealth out and run away and i feel cheated of a kill. And there is alot harder to meet any thief even those who are bad since they only need to spam 2 and do massive dmg, and that’s the problem. I don’t belive that almost every thief is better than every other profession because of player skill. Then you got those who say: Thief is designed to be better 1v1. Well i though every class was going to be good at everything if specced right. There is a problem with initiative and stealth since when i’m fighting mesmers they can’t just go stealth all the time since they got cd’s. And they do not have the mobility that the thief has.

First, in WvW, if a thief runs away, who cares? A dead thief or a thief that runs away is the same result… not a problem for your server.

I seriously do not get why you struggle so much with dagger mainhand thieves. a 2 spammer will run out of initiative quickly. Dodge more.

Personally, when I am on my warrior, thieve is the FIRST class I target. Why? They are the squishiest class in the game.

The only issue with thieves are the permastealth spec that I mentioned above. A longer cooldown on cloak n dagger will fix that. What it won’t fix is people’s talent levels.

Also

You are focusing too much on d/d. Most of the specs DO NOT have high burst. Really only backstab builds have that. The other specs do need dps buffs.

style.6173:

Kormona.7156:

style.6173:

Not really. It’s just a lack of skill by certain players.

That’s just wrong. When i start a fight with other classes i get killed if they are better than me ofc but it’s like 30%-40% chance that they are better than me, but with thiefs even though i almost kill them they can just stealth out and run away and i feel cheated of a kill. And there is alot harder to meet any thief even those who are bad since they only need to spam 2 and do massive dmg, and that’s the problem. I don’t belive that almost every thief is better than every other profession because of player skill. Then you got those who say: Thief is designed to be better 1v1. Well i though every class was going to be good at everything if specced right. There is a problem with initiative and stealth since when i’m fighting mesmers they can’t just go stealth all the time since they got cd’s. And they do not have the mobility that the thief has.

First, in WvW, if a thief runs away, who cares? A dead thief or a thief that runs away is the same result… not a problem for your server.

I seriously do not get why you struggle so much with dagger mainhand thieves. a 2 spammer will run out of initiative quickly. Dodge more.

Personally, when I am on my warrior, thieve is the FIRST class I target. Why? They are the squishiest class in the game.

The only issue with thieves are the permastealth spec that I mentioned above. A longer cooldown on cloak n dagger will fix that. What it won’t fix is people’s talent levels.

Also

You are focusing too much on d/d. Most of the specs DO NOT have high burst. Really only backstab builds have that. The other specs do need dps buffs.

The problem is that a thief can just run out of the fight. No class should be able to do that so easily, and that’s the problem and as i said earlier “low risk”. I like roaming and soloing and i love good fights but with thiefs it’s no good fights. If they mess up or i almost take them they can just stealth out. And who said i didn’t dodge? Ofc i avoid the initial burst but it’s that they can just reset the fight which is the problem. Also i would like thiefs to be buffed in other ways like support and cc so they can have more builds. 70% of the thiefs i meet run backstab builds, wonder why that is.

Hello!

I have three lvl 80s. I play mostly WvW. I will compare them in order to show that thief is very much OP.

1. Glass cannon ranger. I shoot, they die. They shoot, i die In short, it’s fair because I am really a glass cannon. Easy to play.

2. Bunker d/d ele. Purely support class. It’s impossible to kill me but I can’t kill you as well. In other words, they shoot, I smile. I shoot, they laugh Bunker ele is fair because compared to other classes it is very hard to master.

3. Thief. Damage – insane. Survivability – insane. Glass cannon – hell no. Fair – far from it. Very easy to play. It’s like: I strike, they cry; they strike, I laugh

Some observations. I was feeling OP in WvW at lvl 60 with thief. Underleveled and undergeared I have been collecting as many badges as with my ele. Without efforts though.

Killing a thief? Only if s/he is taking risks (that way one can die with bunker ele as well). Otherwise, a thief can not be killed, i.e. if played reasonably.

I, for one, play a condition based spec and I am not using stealth/backstab. My personal understanding is that currently this style of play is not fair.

Cheers!

P.S. My utmost respect for thieves running as a glass cannon builds with their organised guild groups. It is incredibly hard to survive and contribute that way and such thieves are really skilled players.

Yassa.2193:

Hello!

I have three lvl 80s. I play mostly WvW. I will compare them in order to show that thief is very much OP.

1. Glass cannon ranger. I shoot, they die. They shoot, i die In short, it’s fair because I am really a glass cannon. Easy to play.

2. Bunker d/d ele. Purely support class. It’s impossible to kill me but I can’t kill you as well. In other words, they shoot, I smile. I shoot, they laugh Bunker ele is fair because compared to other classes it is very hard to master.

3. Thief. Damage – insane. Survivability – insane. Glass cannon – hell no. Fair – far from it. Very easy to play. It’s like: I strike, they cry; they strike, I laugh

Some observations. I was feeling OP in WvW at lvl 60 with thief. Underleveled and undergeared I have been collecting as many badges as with my ele. Without efforts though.

Killing a thief? Only if s/he is taking risks (that way one can die with bunker ele as well). Otherwise, a thief can not be killed, i.e. if played reasonably.

I, for one, play a condition based spec and I am not using stealth/backstab. My personal understanding is that currently this style of play is not fair.

Cheers!

P.S. My utmost respect for thieves running as a glass cannon builds with their organised guild groups. It is incredibly hard to survive and contribute that way and such thieves are really skilled players.

Good post, this is also what i felt like. I have played thief in www and i had the same experince that even at lvl 60 and undergeared i performed better than with my ranger at lvl 80 with full exotic. Thieves got both an easy to execute burst and high survivability through stealth and mobility. That’s also the reason why glass canon is so popular for thieves since they don’t have to sacrifice so much as other professions. But in zergs there is no problem since aoe will take them down, and that’s why i want thieves buffed in other areas and nerfed when it comes to backstab builds and stealth.

Can’t agree more. The animations need to be fixed, thieves look like they’re about to trip when running. I feel like I’m off-balance just looking at them.

STEALTH!
Has created controversy across all MMO’s that have used it.

My question is, wth was ArenaNet thinking?

SoPP.7034:

STEALTH!
Has created controversy across all MMO’s that have used it.

My question is, wth was ArenaNet thinking?

It works in other games but only because they have ways to reveal stealthed enemies. They should really implement some way to reveal stealted characters, it could be something like a potion that is sold by karma and/or some utility skills. That would fix alot but for thieves it’s somehow deeper, it’s a combination of stealth with high mobility and high burst.

I was once globalled by a thief. I hated them after that. That OP class. Then I actually learned they had counters. Now they’re just like the rest. Woe unto ye, theif.

For the next WvW game designers:

How should an assasin class be designed:

Instead of stealth make a shadow world .. a myst like dream world that is a copy of the normal world. You will see the enemies and other players(copies) in the myst world, but cant attack them. Assasins can make portals to the shadow world and can enter it(out of combat).. And their counter class(like hunters) can follow them into (cant make portals themselfs and can only stay in it for a few minutes) .. Assasins can use the shadow world to travel fast, scout and jump on easy targets. And assasins and hunters of opposite forces can fight eachother in the shadow world.

BTW assasins with this kinda design , should be assasins only.. So good in bringing down a weak/wounded (half death) target fast.. But in a normal melee duel against a soldier class or hunter he should loose.
It should be solo classes that cant group up with other players in parties.. And if they are close to other friendly assasins will loose their power (so with 2 allied assasins.. both assasins will only do 50% of their normal burst damage.. 3 allied assasins only 33% etc…) Ofcourse this penalty only excist in the real world.. not the shadow world.
This way you can also give assasins the ability to enter enemy keeps/portal camps(no more standing afk for hours) etc.. without the problem stealther groups taking stuff solo.

Large battles will consist out a normal fight in the normal world.. and next to this a fight in the shadow world over control of that area.. If the shadow world is controlled this will mean assasins can jump into the normal world battle finishing off wounded targets and jumping back.. Ofcourse with the risk of being followed by a hunter who has lots of advantages fighting assasins in a 1vs1 or even 1vsX battle against assasins.

Dutchares.6084:

For the next WvW game designers:

How should an assasin class be designed:

Instead of stealth make a shadow world .. a myst like dream world that is a copy of the normal world. You will see the enemies and other players(copies) in the myst world, but cant attack them. Assasins can make portals to the shadow world and can enter it(out of combat).. And their counter class(like hunters) can follow them into (cant make portals themselfs and can only stay in it for a few minutes) .. Assasins can use the shadow world to travel fast, scout and jump on easy targets. And assasins and hunters of opposite forces can fight eachother in the shadow world.

BTW assasins with this kinda design , should be assasins only.. So good in bringing down a weak/wounded (half death) target fast.. But in a normal melee duel against a soldier class or hunter he should loose.
It should be solo classes that cant group up with other players in parties.. And if they are close to other friendly assasisn will loose their power (so with 2 allied assasins.. both assasins will only do 50% of their normal burst damage.. 3 allied assasins only 33% etc…)

That would be siiiiick! I’d actually bother to play my thief again.

Your only guaranteed a fighting chance of dropping thiefs in bottlenecks and closed spaces with AOE in the open field they have an almost 90% survival chance.

In previous games iv seen stealth fade you out so it’s still possible for a split second to guess the direction they have gone not in GW2 it’s insta vanish and they can trait to cure conditions on stealth not to mention in some games DOTS placed and damage would knock you back out my experience so far is only seeing thief’s reappear when their downed or when stealth has run out.

In all sense stealth itself is unbalanced for them and not their damage capabilities Anet have over done it’s mechanics and use, iv played many games where stealth classes have always had a strong QQ following but never outside of a L2P like this i personally don’t experience deaths too much i can combat their attacks but unfortunately killing them is the opposite the minute their opener fails they vanish and break combat over and over with little to no way of restraining them.

Stealth makes newbies cry :/

I have no problem fighting mesmers and thiefs, but again I don´t run GC. I know there are two stats called Vi and tough.

Unless you play the class you should just crawl back in your hole til you know what you talking about.. He is invis, he is not a ghost. skillshot and aoe can kitten a thief anytime. Thief is anti-bad players.

TryGoogleThis.9570:

Stealth makes newbies cry :/

I have no problem fighting mesmers and thiefs, but again I don´t run GC. I know there are two stats called Vi and tough.

Unless you play the class you should just crawl back in your hole til you know what you talking about.. He is invis, he is not a ghost. skillshot and aoe can kitten a thief anytime. Thief is anti-bad players.

AoE and killshot against a stealther? Are you serious? Spamming aoe is completly useless against any semi-decent stealther, as is killshot (its too easy to dodge).
What you need against a stealther is strong offence and lots of interrupts.

TryGoogleThis.9570:

Stealth makes newbies cry :/

I have no problem fighting mesmers and thiefs, but again I don´t run GC. I know there are two stats called Vi and tough.

Unless you play the class you should just crawl back in your hole til you know what you talking about.. He is invis, he is not a ghost. skillshot and aoe can kitten a thief anytime. Thief is anti-bad players.

Viatality and Toughness work for surviving a thief’s opener unfortunately you cannot kill what you cannot see or at least know where it is. AOE only works in bottlenecks and closed spaces where a route of travel is predictable any thief who stands in a red circle deserves to die.

AoE and killshot against a stealther? Are you serious? Spamming aoe is completly useless against any semi-decent stealther, as is killshot (its too easy to dodge).
What you need against a stealther is strong offence and lots of interrupts.

That would require to compromise on OP’s Vitality and Toughness claim lol

WvW fights revolve around a superior in number group fighting a smaller one.
My engi encounters this every day: thief starts his number, sees I am flamethrower build with loads of toughness, runs away. In the distance one or more of his fellow server teammates roam around.
He comes back, but does not all in, he just puts me in combat so I cannot save my skin; his teammates close the gap and the fight starts; the thief jumps out of stealth and acts hero-like giving me the finish blow.

In the above story feel free to replace thief with any profession and this is basically the WvW story (with stealth adjusted to fit the new profession).

I also do not know why everybody is so serious about WvW when clearly it is just a zone where mindless mobs run amok (with very, very few exceptions). I love WvW (RvR) in MMOs, but in GW2 something went bad, very bad …. oh well, back to my game, the mob is leaving the castle, better join them so I wont get caught in the middle of an invisible storm of fire, ice, water and all that crazy stuff.

If they are a true glass cannon, which is a laughable spec in reality. you can kill them during their opener.

I agree we should have a better control on restealthing, revealed debuff needs to be a bit more prominent off certain skills. mobility wise we’re fine if we couldn’t restealth so regularly we’d be nicely balanced. (I don’t run a backstab spec, though as it offers little to WvW group play)

TryGoogleThis.9570:

Stealth makes newbies cry :/

I have no problem fighting mesmers and thiefs, but again I don´t run GC. I know there are two stats called Vi and tough.

Unless you play the class you should just crawl back in your hole til you know what you talking about.. He is invis, he is not a ghost. skillshot and aoe can kitten a thief anytime. Thief is anti-bad players.

So to kill a thief i have to have aoe, why is it that thief is the only class that require you to have aoe to kill him?

Ragnar.4257:

Hepan.2709:

Ragnar.4257:

snip

Ill pretty much call BS on the entire post.

…

1. I said in 1v1. My warrior is the toon I have my commander badge on, so granted I don’t 1v1 that often on it. Absolutely thieves have killed me plenty of times, but always in group situations. So if you’re gonna call me a liar, at least read what I said first.

2. So you agree with me that daggerstorm is only useful in certain situations, and is only ever really effective against bad players who don’t know how to deal with it? Thanks for your agreement!

3. Again, that’s exactly what I said. You say what I said was BS, and then proceed to post exactly what I said. I don’t understand you at all.

4. Again, what I said. Alot of thieves are easy to beat if you make their opening combo fail, because many don’t know how to , or don’t want to, do anything else.

5. If someone blows all their CC at once and lets you break away to heal up, then that is a bad player. Doesn’t mean there aren’t counters to thieves for good players to use.

And your last paragraph again agrees with me ^^ If you’re going to say I’m full of crap, don’t then go and post the exact same stuff.

1. You never said anything about any comm badge, only group fights on the warr yadda yadda, just 1v1. I was also talking about that. You lose to all classes at 1 point.

2. Every weapon/utility/elite is situational, except that DS works 80-90% of the time pretty fraking awsome, id say it pretty much pulls ahead on the whole situational thing.

3. You called for an unneeded nerf to 5-6 seconds, i called BS on that. Culling=/=revealed debuff
Why this is also not good is the builds that rely on stealth to heal and clean conditions.
With 5 seconds if you get stacked and cant stealth to remove conditons and heal you’d be a sitting duck for any conditon build out there

4. No. What you described is not what 90% of thives do. You desribed making the first attack from stealth, meaning that you get revealed, making the c&d fail etc. etc. That is NOT what most ppl complain about when they cry nerf.

5. What i was trying to point out is that anyone running without stunbreak is likely to die a lot more then somebody running with, and since again most ppl just seem to be hammering the keyboard mindlessly blowing every and each of their CDs then spamming #1, almost all of their CC is avoidable by 1 stunbreak.

Last para: not once did you mention anything about build, gear, playstyle. You put forward what you seem to think is some magical recipe to beat thiefs via block/invoul —->snare, wich is so not the case.
The best way to beat a thief(atleast a GC one, that relys on movement, positoning etc) is to try to lure/control the battle into a tight spot. In this case they’ll have problems dodging and keeping out of your big hits.
Prime example: BL map that camp Arah/whatever quarry that has like a wall with wooden thingys running over them and you can land on the top one if you’re on the platform coming down from the tower.
I was fighting a guard there and the battle was in my favor till he made one of the best moves i seen in a while. He had maybe 10% left and he jumped down to the wooden ledge, and since i was pretty in the moment i followed him to do finish it. He didnt heal that much by then maybe to 25% but his big hits came of CD and while i had full endurance and shadow off CD there was just nowhere to run to, since jumping down would mean dying anyway. So he won, maybe got some loot, i respawned and thought man that was good fun.

Personally, I find a skilled mesmer harder to deal with than a thief. At least tab/spamming attack keys helps you pick up the thief the moment its possible without needing to click on a moving target in a laggy environment. (Believe me, its quite the task when you frequently run on 15- fps in WvW.) With mesmers, tab or standard attack key spam will only avail you those cursed illusions. (And from what I’ve heard they have traits to cause killed illusion to apply conditions to the attacker, which makes that a completely fatal mistake if true.) And if you’re laggy and as a result have trouble picking up moving targets with left click, then good luck picking up the moving, frequently stealthing real mesmer apart from their illusions, especially when you have such a brief period before they shed your target with stealth all over again and produce another 3 illusions before you can see them again.

If I had the choice, I’d fight a thief in place of that any day of the week. A very skilled and well geared thief feels tricky and extremely dangerous to fight head on, yet it is possible to do so. In the very least with good instincts with thieves you get a sense of what you’re fighting and whether they are still close by or retreating to exit combat and heal. However, with a very skilled and well geared mesmer who utilizes those maximum stealth/illusion builds or whatever they are.. they literally feel intangible at times.

Yes some mesmer traits make it pretty impossible to fight on some classes. Its either let clones/phants alive and take damage or kill them and get damage via conditions. Who came up with that?

The best thing when fighting a mesmer is to just focus on the player if you have any kind of burst damage. Most are pretty distinguishable from their clones by signets, food buffs, world completion stars, upleveled arrow, boons, and last but not least movement and skills they cast.

Hepan.2709:

Yes some mesmer traits make it pretty impossible to fight on some classes. Its either let clones/phants alive and take damage or kill them and get damage via conditions. Who came up with that?

The best thing when fighting a mesmer is to just focus on the player if you have any kind of burst damage. Most are pretty distinguishable from their clones by signets, food buffs, world completion stars, upleveled arrow, boons, and last but not least movement and skills they cast.

aaaand there are glamour mesmers like me that put up a bubble around the thief and once they try to backstab, they pretty much backstab themselves. u dont need to worrie about the clones but the bubbles on condition dmg. the glamour build is very very deadly for zergs. I fought 2 thieves and 1 lowbie warrior at once today and they all died to cofusion dmg. there is ways to counter thieves, but if they permastealth its pretty hard as u dont know if u are hitting them or not.

My latest gripe – why such high ‘downed state’ damage output?

Was yak-guarding on my condition Necro, with a Mesmer bro this weekend, had an epic 2v2 encounter versus two thieves, managed to actually down both quickly (crazy, I know!) with some well timed Confusion, Shatters, Wells, Marks and DeathShroud action… then I was insta-downed because just one of them spamming #1 attacks on me took my remaining 5k HP or so down to nothing in seconds. Conditions had already downed my Mesmer partner at that point, so there we were, four downed players in a downed state battle, which was easily won by the thieves just eating through our remaining health bars faster than either of us could possibly keep up with. Bah.

PolarApe.9351:

My latest gripe – why such high ‘downed state’ damage output?

Was yak-guarding on my condition Necro, with a Mesmer bro this weekend, had an epic 2v2 encounter versus two thieves, managed to actually down both quickly (crazy, I know!) with some well timed Confusion, Shatters, Wells, Marks and DeathShroud action… then I was insta-downed because just one of them spamming #1 attacks on me took my remaining 5k HP or so down to nothing in seconds. Conditions had already downed my Mesmer partner at that point, so there we were, four downed players in a downed state battle, which was easily won by the thieves just eating through our remaining health bars faster than either of us could possibly keep up with. Bah.

If it makes you feel any better I was downed by a warrior while I was/dance over his downed body. Im pretty sure they need a nurf too.

SoPP.7034:

STEALTH!
Has created controversy across all MMO’s that have used it.

My question is, wth was ArenaNet thinking?

^ This.

It’s hard to balance a class that’s unhittable half the time because they can’t be targeted, especially in a game that has no counter-stealth.

Kormona.7156:

So to kill a thief i have to have aoe, why is it that thief is the only class that require you to have aoe to kill him?

I can kill thieves and I have no AoE.

I can kill thieves too if they let me. A good thief won’t let me kill them even when I ‘win’.

I wouldn’t say thief is extremely unbalanced OP. Thieves should be hit-and-run 1v1 specialists. However, they shouldn’t be able to perma-stealth with blinding powder and heartseeker – that kitten is so broken!

Imagine if a guardian found a way to get perma-retaliation by comboing off his own fields. How quickly do you think that would be fixed?

transtemporal.2158:

Imagine if a guardian found a way to get perma-retaliation by comboing off his own fields. How quickly do you think that would be fixed?

umm…ya… good thing that can’t happen…

I really hate the thieves burst, even speced and geared defensively they can kill you with an opener in about 1.5 seconds, which is ridiculous. In a perfect situation (I’m not fighting someone else, nothing is on CD ect) I can counter them, but things are rarely perfect in WvW.

I for one would really like the damage of C&D and mug reduced (or at least put the trait in a higher tier for specing).
I also think it is ridiculous that a missed, blinded, ect attack doesn’t break stealth. If you missed you should have to pay for the mistake, not be given a second chance.

1) If a thief bursts you, you either A) Didn’t see it coming or Have poor reaction time. Either way, the thief did its job.

2) If a thief is constantly stealthing, you A) Don’t have CC or You’re blind. Either way, the thief isn’t doing any real damage (and if it is, that’s a problem with your build or playstyle).

3) If the thief is spamming heartseeker, then A) you have little to no health left or The thief sucks.

Fortunately, they don’t balance thieves based on WvW as much as they do in sPvP. Once culling is fixed, I’m sure I won’t be able to CnD my way to an enemy siege line and just drop caltrops while doing no physical damage to anyone else.

purpleskies.3274:

I really hate the thieves burst, even speced and geared defensively they can kill you with an opener in about 1.5 seconds, which is ridiculous. In a perfect situation (I’m not fighting someone else, nothing is on CD ect) I can counter them, but things are rarely perfect in WvW.

I for one would really like the damage of C&D and mug reduced (or at least put trait in a higher tier for specing).
I also think it is ridiculous that a missed, blinded, ect attack doesn’t break stealth. If you missed you should have to pay for the mistake, not be given a second chance.

I don’t agree really, they can kill glass characters with burst.
My guardian since he hit level 80, i cannot remember ever losing a 1v1 fight to thief.
Warrior can be trickier, however I just WAY more hp and some more armor and I hit hard as hell too.
I feel the most annoying part about fighting thieves and even some mesmers is the constant target breaking that happens. I don’t mind some but the rate it’s done is just maddening sometimes =P

Slamz.5376:

Woaden.9425:

Thieves are easy to counter, here goes:

Against all:
Root/stun
AOE

Thief is in stealth almost all the time. You can’t target them for root/stun.

Really it’s not that “thieves are unbalanced” it’s that “stealth is unbalanced”, particularly with the way thieves can constantly reapply it.

Give stealth an 8 second cooldown between uses and I think almost all complaints would cease.

TOTALLY AGREE. 8 seconds would probably be enough. No more of this instant re-stealth crap. It makes me wonder if Anet devs watch any of these so-called “pro” videos of thieves stealthing all the time during a fight and how easy it has become for them to decimate groups of players by themselves.

too long now they have this “get out of jail free card” by stealthing all the time. Where is the danger when they can simply disappear. its like they just log off the map. By the time they reappear they are almost out of draw distance range.