Guild Wars 2

Noticing “do not follow us” message from “OP” guild/Piken server I have decided to watch the idea of “do not follow us” message.

Besides of spamming “do not follow us” in team/map channels, I have also noticed that the guild has decided to not
1) help any Piken player who was attacked near their group, all other players were left alone to die by other server players.
2) help any Piken player who was in downed state when they ran over him/her (third time it was me who got caught by 5 enemy players and happily went down), the group just continued their movement.

Therefore the question is: is such behaviour considered ok in GW2? Can you spam “do not join us include random insults”? Is it ok to ignore fellow players who are on your own side obviously not being random bots farming mobs?

To OP guild: you do not wish me to publish screens of PMs you have sent me when I’ve asked the reasons of you behaviour.

P.S. And no, I did not follow your group.

Guilds dont want rally bait to follow them.

Is it ok for a guild to want to do wvw as a guild with out hanger ons? Yes.

do they have to be jerks about it by using foul language and not helping downed players? no

You sir are a rallybot. You not only don’t help the guild you describe but you also harm it because you WILL rally everything when you die in the first push. People from the guild can’t make you not following them, but then again don’t expect to be ressed.

Much respect, take care!

Samhayn.2385:

Is it ok for a guild to want to do wvw as a guild with out hanger ons? Yes.

do they have to be jerks about it by using foul language and not helping downed players? no

+1, no need to be a jerk at all in games

Personally I think the guild is entitled to behave how they want. If they don’t want people to follow them and have said “don’t follow us,” its perfectly reasonable to not expect them to help out players who are downed around them. If that is how they desire to play don’t hassle them about it, just follow someone else.

Los Re.4607:

You sir are a rallybot. You not only don’t help the guild you describe but you also harm it because you WILL rally everything when you die in the first push. People from the guild can’t make you not following them, but then again don’t expect to be ressed.

Much respect, take care!

How can you know that he is rally bot? Maybe he is much more skilled than some guild players.

This is why they need to get rid of “rally” in WvW. It goes against Anet’s own design philosophy. It causes players to not want others around.

This kind of thing would be better on the private forums. Here:

Www.pikensquare.info

What the other poster suggested rings true. If you don’t like what’s going on, there are four maps. Pick one that makes you happy. Since they are actively asking people not to follow (my guess is to improve themselves as a guild for future GvGs), there are plenty of other options.

That said, if Jin ran over my body and didn’t rez me, I’d bite his ankles off. But we have that kind of relationship. :p

It is quite annoying to have a force, and a certain % of it is a complete unknown. They could be playing uplevels, bad builds, they could be bad or inexperienced players, you just don’t know. It’s a variable. These guilds that run tag-less and tell you not to follow them are trying to reduce their combat scenario variables.

As for the ressing thing, well… sometimes I too must run past someone who is downed, because there is a pressing issue I must attend to. I don’t like doing it, but if I realize I am reviving a lowbie and he is not in immediate threat of being killed, I most likely will stop reviving him and get back to my commander.

Johje Holan.4607:

This is why they need to get rid of “rally” in WvW. It goes against Anet’s own design philosophy. It causes players to not want others around.

I agree the rally in its own right is a crappy PVE element that found its way into PvP/WvW….Also like the quote above said, it only encourages bad behavior on the part of people trying to competitively WvW when there is a level 3 downed person following them.

It is not fair to the low level/inexperienced players that are being berated, and it is not fair to the guild group trying to run without being rallybotted all over the place.

They could leave downed state in the game and remove rallying, you could rez people still but at least you wouldn’t have to worry about people (that don’t intend to hurt you) on your own server by being bad…hurting you.

This is the norm for all games that have an world PvP map, its been happening for years. Once players figure out a meta that allows for them to fight and win against overwhelming odds it quickly spreads. Its the rush of going up against overwhelming odds and coming out on top, they usually work at this and have rotations and a playstyle that allows for them to achieve this. All it takes is for 1 pug to throw down the wrong field ontop of the Guilds field and things can go sideways very fast. Or as others have pointed out some GC pugs following and becoming rally bait for the opposition. I see nothing wrong with a guild wanting to do their own thing, I will say there is no need for them to be rude about it but sometimes people just don’t listen and follow anyways.

If they don’t want you to follow them I don’t see the issue, just don’t follow them.

If someone dies in a situation where it will endanger our guild, we let them die. There’s no point in useless sacrifices for a pug who doesn’t know to stay out of red fields and expects to get a rez. Of course you need to try to rez people in other situations though.

I agree with rather not having pugs with us as a guild group, for a couple of reasons:
- they don’t know who to listen to
- they don’t have access to special communication (albeit voip or the guild chat)
- they don’t know the general ‘way’ of a guild (unless they’re experienced)
- they rally enemy players
- they attack gates before siege is placed

I think it’s not really unfair to say ‘please go your own way’ as a guild group. Either they join the group as a member (that will follow the rules of that guild), or they stay away from it. Nobody forces them to join.

bob.8632:

Johje Holan.4607:

This is why they need to get rid of “rally” in WvW. It goes against Anet’s own design philosophy. It causes players to not want others around.

I agree the rally in its own right is a crappy PVE element that found its way into PvP/WvW….Also like the quote above said, it only encourages bad behavior on the part of people trying to competitively WvW when there is a level 3 downed person following them.

It is not fair to the low level/inexperienced players that are being berated, and it is not fair to the guild group trying to run without being rallybotted all over the place.

I disagree that rally system should be removed. I also dislike it when people say the downed system should not exist. I think it adds more dynamics to gameplay. I do however think a few things need to change. For one, you should not be allowed to play WvW unless you are of a certain level (At least 60, but I’d prefer 80) I also believe that the rally mechanic should work in a different way, maybe 2 targets you hit need to die before you can rally, or you need to have done a higher % of damage to a target so that it flags them as a target you can rally off of.

As a general rule of thumb in wvw. If a guild is running together and no one has a commander tag on leave them be. They most likely are running a guild event and don’t want people following them around.

like I said no need to be a jerk about it but that does go both ways. I will ask you not to follow and it has nothing to do with you personally. The thing is your not in my TS so communication is slow or out, I don’t know your spec, I don’t know your gear, I don’t know how you do under pressure, I don’t know if I should peel for you or can rely on you peeling for me. Its just to many variables to having someone you don’t know following you around and this can cost you a fight. Like people have said one guy you don’t know gets spiked and all of a sudden people you have downed are back in the fight. It could go from mopping up with aoe and spikes to a full on fight in just a matter of seconds.

Best way to Handle pugs is just run around in a circle until they leave or auto run in one direction then reverse to leave them behind.

aramanu.5612:

Sounds like a bunch of kitten who can’t handle a few unknown ‘variables’ or a few deaths and repairs.

Naw it’s likely a close guild event, Piken has always been like this: Guilds act independently and run their own guild-focused events working on whatever they want to … untagged.

OP has a commander that runs open raids after their closed raid events are done, and it sounds like this was misunderstanding between the open vs closed raid.

Brando.1374:

Best way to Handle pugs is just run around in a circle until they leave or auto run in one direction then reverse to leave them behind.

Best way is to merge with a zerg, then waypoint your force out. Or waypoint all the way home, instead of the nearest WP. Pugs always expect you to WP to the nearest.

Jayne.9251:

This kind of thing would be better on the private forums. Here:

Www.pikensquare.info

What the other poster suggested rings true. If you don’t like what’s going on, there are four maps. Pick one that makes you happy. Since they are actively asking people not to follow (my guess is to improve themselves as a guild for future GvGs), there are plenty of other options.

That said, if Jin ran over my body and didn’t rez me, I’d bite his ankles off. But we have that kind of relationship. :p

Maybe he wanted “neutral” arena for discussion. Server specific forums can be a bit hostile when somone presents dissenting view and moderation can be biased. There is also something to gain with outside view from other servers.

@OP: Shaming guild is probably bad idea. If it is actual harrasment, then report them.

I will tell you that in CERN on Tarnished Coast, we do not do this. Generally, our WvW commanders and groups allow anyone to follow us. Most of the other guilds on TC are the same way when running as a group. Some guilds will request players not follow them in certain circumstances (GvG, Guild Training, Hardcore Raiding, etc) but it’s more an exception than the rule on our server.

Re: Rally Bots – If someone is a rally bot, then teach them how NOT to be. Better players helps the server, and the community. My own personal opinion.

Re: Guilds running w/o followers: If a guild wants to run without followers, that’s fine. There’s absolutely no reason to be jerks about it though, assuming that players also respect the guild’s wishes not to be followed. That said, not stopping to res players (unless there’s a highly pressing matter that needs attended to) does send a rather rude message.

I don’t know what Piken’s community is like, but I agree it’s a subject you should post on the server’s own forums for discussion. I can tell you that on TC, such behavior by a guild would be quite frowned upon by the general populace, especially if they were using insults. Our server has a reputation for being ‘polite’, and it’s a reputation we like having.

Anyway, I don’t have anything in particular to add, other than to say that it is by no means every server or guild where this happens. Highly unusual in fact.

If someone explained nicely that there were trying to have a guild event or something, I’d probably leave them alone. If they were rude, I’d be tempted to strip off my armor and follow them anyway. All the time spouting /me attacking bay, wurm gate

I mostly don’t rez downed people unless they’re from my guild. Here’s my experience with rezzing strangers.

Option 1: I am downed while rezzing – Downed person either runs away or gets downed again immediately
Option 2: I rez them and run away with low health only to be picked off
Option 3: I rez them and get left behind.

I don’t particularly care of someone follows our group. They’ll generally get lost at some point anyway.

Junkpile.7439:

How can you know that he is rally bot? Maybe he is much more skilled than some guild players.

Couple things… first he is dead which isn’t a good indicator. Second, they have no idea how good a player he/she is so they do not want to take the risk. Lastly, the guild is probably running in their own guild chat so any player regardless of skill could be a detriment since they aren’t privy to the conversation.

The fix to this is to remove dead players rallying opponents. I like the downed state mechanic but in WvW players should only rally from player skills or player rezzing. IMO when a player is dead, they should have to port.

Avatar of Belle.9623:

I mostly don’t rez downed people unless they’re from my guild. Here’s my experience with rezzing strangers.

Option 1: I am downed while rezzing – Downed person either runs away or gets downed again immediately
Option 2: I rez them and run away with low health only to be picked off
Option 3: I rez them and get left behind.

I don’t particularly care of someone follows our group. They’ll generally get lost at some point anyway.

Slow necros are slow?

And the Elitist mentality continues to grow… awwwwwwwwwll

God forbid you play an MMO to play with the community and not a small group of only guild members… God forbid you’d want help from the WvW community instead of alienating them so you can be UBER POWERFUL and UBER ELITE while you DESTROY ALL GUILDS YOU OPPOSE!!!……………

Get out of here with this nonsense and all of you who are in favor of it.

Delvoire.8930:

And the Elitist mentality continues to grow… awwwwwwwwwll

God forbid you play an MMO to play with the community and not a small group of only guild members… God forbid you’d want help from the WvW community instead of alienating them so you can be UBER POWERFUL and UBER ELITE while you DESTROY ALL GUILDS YOU OPPOSE!!!……………

Get out of here with this nonsense and all of you who are in favor of it.

God forbid people dont want to zerg up and faceroll their keyboards whilst gazing at a meaningless scoreboard….You see that argument goes both ways sir….

This is a sandbox game and people are free to play the way that pleases them. While I agree they dont have to be kittens about it, trying to belittle their playstyle in favor of yours is only making you seem the less for it.

Straegen.2938:

Junkpile.7439:

How can you know that he is rally bot? Maybe he is much more skilled than some guild players.

Couple things… first he is dead which isn’t a good indicator. Second, they have no idea how good a player he/she is so they do not want to take the risk. Lastly, the guild is probably running in their own guild chat so any player regardless of skill could be a detriment since they aren’t privy to the conversation.

The fix to this is to remove dead players rallying opponents. I like the downed state mechanic but in WvW players should only rally from player skills or player rezzing. IMO when a player is dead, they should have to port.

full dead should only be rezzable when out of combat.

players should only rally off guard or player kills when downed in wvw.

rally should be limited to 2 people per kill and not have one person getting spiked rally ever person who is down.

then having someone follow you around wouldn’t be near as bad.

bob.8632:

Avatar of Belle.9623:

I mostly don’t rez downed people unless they’re from my guild. Here’s my experience with rezzing strangers.

Option 1: I am downed while rezzing – Downed person either runs away or gets downed again immediately
Option 2: I rez them and run away with low health only to be picked off
Option 3: I rez them and get left behind.

I don’t particularly care of someone follows our group. They’ll generally get lost at some point anyway.

Slow necros are slow?

Slower than molasses. I’ve been playing warrior lately and it’s like a breath of fresh air to have all that mobility at your finger tips.

Delvoire.8930:

And the Elitist mentality continues to grow… awwwwwwwwwll

God forbid you play an MMO to play with the community and not a small group of only guild members… God forbid you’d want help from the WvW community instead of alienating them so you can be UBER POWERFUL and UBER ELITE while you DESTROY ALL GUILDS YOU OPPOSE!!!……………

Get out of here with this nonsense and all of you who are in favor of it.

God forbid that randoms, unguildeds, and pugs try to play with the community by joining the groups on teamspeak. On blackgate we encourage all players to join us on TS. If you’re unwilling to join us, then don’t follow us.

If you want to be a casual, go be a casual. Don’t follow a hardcore, organized group if you don’t want to be hardcore or organized.

It goes both ways. Maybe you should try seeing it from both sides.

Guilds ARE the community. “Get out of here with this nonsense”

As the guild leader of One Pulse [OP] I Thought i should reply to this thread.
We are a guild who wants to run alone, we run 25-30 players and would like to keep it that way. Having 15 Pugs following us makes us a blob.
Most of the time we are outnumbered and cannot do with pugs dying allover the place, this is just going to rally the enemy and ruin it for us.
When there is a commander on the map, we ask people nicely to move to the commander, but you have to understand that when 20 pugs follow us in every raid, we are gunna get kitten ed off. Today we had members of the piken square community telling pugs to actually move to us instead of the commander on the map…. and you expect us to be happy with this?

As for not ressing people we are walking past, and helping downed players.
There is alot of players in guild wars 2 who manage to die in world vs world. We are not going to stop for every single person on a borderland to ress them up.
There is only one solution to this problem which you have, Stop Dying.

Avatar of Belle.9623:

bob.8632:

Avatar of Belle.9623:

I mostly don’t rez downed people unless they’re from my guild. Here’s my experience with rezzing strangers.

Option 1: I am downed while rezzing – Downed person either runs away or gets downed again immediately
Option 2: I rez them and run away with low health only to be picked off
Option 3: I rez them and get left behind.

I don’t particularly care of someone follows our group. They’ll generally get lost at some point anyway.

Slow necros are slow?

Slower than molasses. I’ve been playing warrior lately and it’s like a breath of fresh air to have all that mobility at your finger tips.

Guild Warrior 2.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Delvoire.8930:

And the Elitist mentality continues to grow… awwwwwwwwwll

God forbid you play an MMO to play with the community and not a small group of only guild members… God forbid you’d want help from the WvW community instead of alienating them so you can be UBER POWERFUL and UBER ELITE while you DESTROY ALL GUILDS YOU OPPOSE!!!……………

Get out of here with this nonsense and all of you who are in favor of it.

God forbid that randoms, unguildeds, and pugs try to play with the community by joining the groups on teamspeak. On blackgate we encourage all players to join us on TS. If you’re unwilling to join us, then don’t follow us.

If you want to be a casual, go be a casual. Don’t follow a hardcore, organized group if you don’t want to be hardcore or organized.

It goes both ways. Maybe you should try seeing it from both sides.

Guilds ARE the community. “Get out of here with this nonsense”

Nothing was said about TS… or playing as a community. OP clearly says that this guild just insults people and tells them not to follow. That is in no way effective at all for any community.

As others have said, if they were to politely say they are doing a guild thing or even suggest others don’t run with them, well then that’s another story.

If this happened near me, I’d troll hard… every day. Oh look, here comes the naked character again to follow the guild and become an instant rally bot.

Delvoire.8930:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Delvoire.8930:

And the Elitist mentality continues to grow… awwwwwwwwwll

God forbid you play an MMO to play with the community and not a small group of only guild members… God forbid you’d want help from the WvW community instead of alienating them so you can be UBER POWERFUL and UBER ELITE while you DESTROY ALL GUILDS YOU OPPOSE!!!……………

Get out of here with this nonsense and all of you who are in favor of it.

God forbid that randoms, unguildeds, and pugs try to play with the community by joining the groups on teamspeak. On blackgate we encourage all players to join us on TS. If you’re unwilling to join us, then don’t follow us.

If you want to be a casual, go be a casual. Don’t follow a hardcore, organized group if you don’t want to be hardcore or organized.

It goes both ways. Maybe you should try seeing it from both sides.

Guilds ARE the community. “Get out of here with this nonsense”

Nothing was said about TS… or playing as a community. OP clearly says that this guild just insults people and tells them not to follow. That is in no way effective at all for any community.

As others have said, if they were to politely say they are doing a guild thing or even suggest others don’t run with them, well then that’s another story.

If this happened near me, I’d troll hard… every day. Oh look, here comes the naked character again to follow the guild and become an instant rally bot.

All it takes is for 1 bad egg in map chat to make a whole guild look bad. There could be 10 other people being nice and asking, and then there could be 1 baddie who is crude, and that’s what people will remember. Or it could be a TROLL that isn’t even associated with that guild. Should think about that first.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Malediktus.9250:

uncooperative pugs are often the cancer of the community.

Fixed that for you!

Quite the opposite. I see uncooperative guilds way more often than uncooperative pugs, because well like 90% of the WvW guilds are uncooperative in my view.

This thread hurts my brain. -=sigh=- Going to bow out now. Attempting to bring civil discussion to the masses is an exercise in futility.

Bogey.5423:

Jayne.9251:

This kind of thing would be better on the private forums. Here:

Www.pikensquare.info

What the other poster suggested rings true. If you don’t like what’s going on, there are four maps. Pick one that makes you happy. Since they are actively asking people not to follow (my guess is to improve themselves as a guild for future GvGs), there are plenty of other options.

That said, if Jin ran over my body and didn’t rez me, I’d bite his ankles off. But we have that kind of relationship. :p

Maybe he wanted “neutral” arena for discussion. Server specific forums can be a bit hostile when somone presents dissenting view and moderation can be biased. There is also something to gain with outside view from other servers.

@OP: Shaming guild is probably bad idea. If it is actual harrasment, then report them.

Oh I can understand that

But I think naming the guild served no purpose than to otherwise try to embarass them into doing something they didn’t want to do. Can’t force people to play your way, etc .. You can, however, make choices that are right for you.

If it was an academic conversation about this situation, there was no need to name the guild, as you said. But typically Piken doesn’t air its dirty laundry. And the private forum has never been heavily moderated. You’re on it aren’t you? You know what I’m talking about then, lol.

Again, for those in this thread: This particular guild runs open raids where everyone can join in almost daily .. after they do their closed guild raids. They are one of the biggest open “everyone can join” groups on Piken. SFRJ used to do the same thing. Then they got tired of it because it was nonstop demand. And they stopped doing it. Respect each other’s playstyle. If a guild wants to run untagged and just the guild, let them, particularly when they pitch in and help and include EVERYONE every day later in the night.

And frankly the best lesson people can learn in WvW is if you die, revive. Don’t expect people to rez you, because often there’s a million good reasons why they can’t. If you’re lying there more than a minute, revive and run back and fight.

Malediktus.9250:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Malediktus.9250:

uncooperative pugs are often the cancer of the community.

Fixed that for you!

Quite the opposite. I see uncooperative guilds way more often than uncooperative pugs, because well like 90% of the WvW guilds are uncooperative in my view.

You have a very narrow view.

It’s harder to notice 20 random pugs who will not cooperate, as they don’t talk much, if at all, and you only see them mixed in here and there.

It’s much EASIER to notice a guild of 20 that is being uncooperative, as they are more likely to be vocal, and you can actually SEE them easily as a large group.

So you will remember the uncooperative guild, and not all the uncooperative randoms.

I don’t know what server you are on that you experience this, but I suggest transferring elsewhere. I don’t see this happen on my server.

Samhayn.2385:

full dead should only be rezzable when out of combat.

players should only rally off guard or player kills when downed in wvw.

rally should be limited to 2 people per kill and not have one person getting spiked rally ever person who is down.

then having someone follow you around wouldn’t be near as bad.

These changes wouldn’t effect anything substantially in WvW. PUGs would still be disinvited from many groups since they would still pose a rally problem. If we remove rallying from killing, there would be little cause to exclude someone from group play.

The second problem is when dead. Right now smaller groups have nothing to gain from attacking larger groups since the larger group simply reconstitutes itself right after the fight. If players had to port on dead, small groups could actually effect larger groups and would be more inclined to engage. Currently only two ways to beat a zerg today… with an even bigger zerg or with a much more skilled group. This leads to many players simply logging off because they cannot beat a superior numbered force even with attrition.

Ressing downed players more often than not gets yourself killed. If you’re down, just port back. Waiting to get ressed generally indicates to me that you’re rally bait and not worth keeping around.

Everyone on PS should just follow that guild and purposefully be rally bait until the xfer off. That would be my motivation anyways. If they arent good enough to lose the pugs, they shouldn’t pretend to be good.

Lianna.6980:

Therefore the question is: is such behaviour considered ok in GW2? Can you spam “do not join us include random insults”? Is it ok to ignore fellow players who are on your own side obviously not being random bots farming mobs?

Not IMHO unless there is a militia commander on the map. It is best for the server and the game mode for militia to have someone to follow.

Jerk guilds that do not support the server should not use server resources like team chat, map chat and supply.

Jerk guild leaders should keep their commander tag turned off because that is another resource used by the whole server, not just their jerk guild.

Piken has always had a harmonious relationship between guilds and friendlies. Some guilds allow people to follow them some would prefer you don’t, it’s down to each guild to decide. This discussion has been had before on our forums and you are welcome to start a new one, nothing is censored on Piken forums as there has never been a need.
As always if a guild asks you not to follow you should respect their wishes, they in turn are more willing and receptive to helping you. Antagonising them just makes a situation worse and they’re less likely to help.

Of course it’s allowed. Are you going to report everyone every time they aren’t cooperative? Learn to play around it.

Quite surprising when OP came from a guild that was fully comprised of these so called “rally bots”. You would think that they would show sympathy knowing what it’s like.

warriorjrd.8695:

Quite surprising when OP came from a guild that was fully comprised of these so called “rally bots”. You would think that they would show sympathy knowing what it’s like.

Cmon Jarrod, Thats abit mean

Mean is trashing server resources for your private guild thing. If you don’t want to help your server at least stay out of the way. Don’t build golems with supply other people built up and need. Get out of team chat, use your own chat channel. Take off that tag, let someone who gives a kitten about the server tag up.

I my experience most guild do ask politely for people to not follow them. But when people follow them after they ask day after day there is gonna be some hostility.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Malediktus.9250:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Malediktus.9250:

uncooperative pugs are often the cancer of the community.

Fixed that for you!

Quite the opposite. I see uncooperative guilds way more often than uncooperative pugs, because well like 90% of the WvW guilds are uncooperative in my view.

You have a very narrow view.

It’s harder to notice 20 random pugs who will not cooperate, as they don’t talk much, if at all, and you only see them mixed in here and there.

It’s much EASIER to notice a guild of 20 that is being uncooperative, as they are more likely to be vocal, and you can actually SEE them easily as a large group.

So you will remember the uncooperative guild, and not all the uncooperative randoms.

I don’t know what server you are on that you experience this, but I suggest transferring elsewhere. I don’t see this happen on my server.

You have a very narrow view.

It’s harder to notice if a guild of 20 will or will not cooperate, as they don’t talk much, if at all, and if they do it’s all abuse.

It’s much EASIER to notice a pug of 20 that is being uncooperative, as they are…… wait for it…… pugs.

So you will remember the uncooperative pugs, and not all the uncooperative guilds.

I don’t know what server you are on that you experience this, but I suggest transferring elsewhere. I don’t see this happen on my server.

:)

Ps, see what i did there?

fine, go do your elite guild whatever and leave pug resources for the pugs.

guarantee the pugs will not even notice you, not acknowledge your existence at all, if you get out of their chat channels, off their supply, and off tag.