Guild Wars 2

Kitiara.2706:

rchu.8945:

Melanion.4892:

Hi folks.

I’m not sure how many of you are aware, but Anet is actually developing things for wvw. The fact that we’ve heard nothing about it is one things, but I’m here to (maybe) stir up some drama about a different aspect of this.

Anet has been inviting guilds to participate in the ‘beta’ or whatever you’d call it for WvW changes. However, of the 2 guilds I know that were invited, 1 still plays the game and it is a PvE guild. The WvW guild that I know has been invited died almost half a year ago and few of its members still play.

HOW IS THIS A THING THAT IS HAPPENING? What part of game development has its developers draw a group to test it from outside the population currently playing the content? I get maybe drawing in a few PvE folks to test things, but for the most part, when it comes to a WvW update, why do you not get actual (and current) WvW players to test things? We know the kind of kitten that went down if EotM and the desert borderlands. If Anet honestly thinks that they can pull the same kitten and get a better result, I feel even more sorry for the state of this game.

ROFL.

That’s the freaking problem, Anet invited a “PVE” (yes, read it again, PVE) guild to test the upcoming changes that they want to put into WvW. Do I need to point out what is wrong with that approach? Do we need more PvE events in WvW?

Wheres the proof?

Honestly…..at this point…proof is no longer required for kitten like this lol

Repeatedly Anet has done this EXACT same thing EVERY TIME they have tested anything new for WvW. With the type of changes and the number of times they have ignored feedback and/or did the same thing with previous updates like EOTM….I am more likely to believe this than not believe it at this point. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior….judging from past behavior this would be right in line with everything they have done. So, IMO, without having any “dev” confirm it (which they won’t until the very end) I would be inclined to believe it more than not at this point.

Chaba.5410:

Caliburn.1845:

Who are “real” WvW guilds?

PPT guilds? GvG guilds? Roaming guilds?

All of them.

Add in PvX guilds too.

Problem: most of the guilds I knew that were real WvW guilds (99% WvW, 1% everything else), have long quit the game. Where can they draw WvW testers from if most of the good ones who have been around since launch have left the game?

Hmmm…
If only there was a place you could go to find active WvW guilds

As I’m fairly certain I pointed out, none of this has been confirmed by anyone even remotely related to Anet, but that’s partially because these beta tests have yet to happen. All that exists as far as I know are invitations extended to specific guilds. So sure, it’s conjecture and secondary sources at this point, but it’s better to be annoyed by conjecture and have Anet fix their kitten than to only accept the official statements made by Anet.

If you haven’t noticed, Anet has made no legitimate posts about WvW in many months. Small statements have been made, but nothing substantial and firm has been said about wvw developments at all. If we’re going to wait for sources to be double-checked or triple-checked, we’re never going to talk about anything. Ever. Not until it’s released, anyways.

Kitiara.2706:

rchu.8945:

Melanion.4892:

Hi folks.

stuff.

more stuff?

Wheres the proof?

Oh wait, none of you are old enough to remember that classic … failed joke.

Melanion.4892:

As I’m fairly certain I pointed out, none of this has been confirmed by anyone even remotely related to Anet, but that’s partially because these beta tests have yet to happen. All that exists as far as I know are invitations extended to specific guilds. So sure, it’s conjecture and secondary sources at this point, but it’s better to be annoyed by conjecture and have Anet fix their kitten than to only accept the official statements made by Anet.

If you haven’t noticed, Anet has made no legitimate posts about WvW in many months. Small statements have been made, but nothing substantial and firm has been said about wvw developments at all. If we’re going to wait for sources to be double-checked or triple-checked, we’re never going to talk about anything. Ever. Not until it’s released, anyways.

At least you admitted to only assuming a bunch of bunk that might or might not be happening. Why even get your underpants in this much of a wad over something that might not even be a real issue? Do you just like being upset and didnt get enough kitten on your cheerios today so you decided to go kitten on the forums?

Instead of looking for something to be bitter about and creating an issue where there might not be an issue, go find something to be happy about. Its beautiful outside! The sun is out! Its Friday!

Jayne.9251:

Kitiara.2706:

rchu.8945:

Melanion.4892:

Hi folks.

stuff.

more stuff?

Wheres the proof?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dnUs2AqWvs

Oh wait, none of you are old enough to remember that classic … failed joke.

I am! and HAHAHAHAHAH! Love it!

Kitiara.2706:

Jayne.9251:

Kitiara.2706:

rchu.8945:

Melanion.4892:

Hi folks.

stuff.

more stuff?

Wheres the proof?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dnUs2AqWvs

Oh wait, none of you are old enough to remember that classic … failed joke.

I am! and HAHAHAHAHAH! Love it!

Same and the Taco Bell chihuahua.

The least they should do is to bring in one bronze, silver and gold league guild. The issues there quite different. I’m pretty sure they never tried to defend the new borderlands with 3 people.

Melanion.4892:

Hi folks.

I’m not sure how many of you are aware, but Anet is actually developing things for wvw. The fact that we’ve heard nothing about it is one things, but I’m here to (maybe) stir up some drama about a different aspect of this.

Anet has been inviting guilds to participate in the ‘beta’ or whatever you’d call it for WvW changes. However, of the 2 guilds I know that were invited, 1 still plays the game and it is a PvE guild. The WvW guild that I know has been invited died almost half a year ago and few of its members still play.

HOW IS THIS A THING THAT IS HAPPENING? What part of game development has its developers draw a group to test it from outside the population currently playing the content? I get maybe drawing in a few PvE folks to test things, but for the most part, when it comes to a WvW update, why do you not get actual (and current) WvW players to test things? We know the kind of kitten that went down if EotM and the desert borderlands. If Anet honestly thinks that they can pull the same kitten and get a better result, I feel even more sorry for the state of this game.

Anet-trooper 1: Seems there is a disturbance in WvW
Anet-trooper 2: Let’s ask our PvE players what is wrong.

Anet-trooper 2: Our PvE players are happy.
Anet-trooper 1: Good, good. We can continue our plans for DLC Part 2.
Anet-trooper 2: DLC? I thought we were making another expansion.
Anet-trooper 1: Indeed, but they’ll never tell the difference.

Chaba.5410:

ArchonWing.9480:

Although they might be trying to test how intuitive the changes are in regards to inexperienced players, in order to test accessibility. Well, that’s something to think about at least.

Things like the new waypoint rules for “spawn keeps” is not intuitive at all. :/

Indeed. This is a good subject matter for casual players.

Ex: Put casuals there wondering why the hell they can’t use the waypoint —→ ragequit 20 minutes later. Well, maybe your game should explain itself better!

It’s a recurring problem with content across the game in that the game doesn’t really teach you to play it. A good example is the minimap being fairly unhelpful.

Kitiara.2706:

Melanion.4892:

As I’m fairly certain I pointed out, none of this has been confirmed by anyone even remotely related to Anet, but that’s partially because these beta tests have yet to happen. All that exists as far as I know are invitations extended to specific guilds. So sure, it’s conjecture and secondary sources at this point, but it’s better to be annoyed by conjecture and have Anet fix their kitten than to only accept the official statements made by Anet.

If you haven’t noticed, Anet has made no legitimate posts about WvW in many months. Small statements have been made, but nothing substantial and firm has been said about wvw developments at all. If we’re going to wait for sources to be double-checked or triple-checked, we’re never going to talk about anything. Ever. Not until it’s released, anyways.

At least you admitted to only assuming a bunch of bunk that might or might not be happening. Why even get your underpants in this much of a wad over something that might not even be a real issue? Do you just like being upset and didnt get enough kitten on your cheerios today so you decided to go kitten on the forums?

Instead of looking for something to be bitter about and creating an issue where there might not be an issue, go find something to be happy about. Its beautiful outside! The sun is out! Its Friday!

Assuming based off of sources who I have no reason to doubt. They’ve been right about this kind of thing in the past.

Also, it’s raining heavily here. Not going outside. Me being annoyed is entirely tied to the communication and performance of WvW devs in the past and at present.

Are you talking about [Goon] and [SFD]?

If the redesign doesn’t remove all the newly added PvE crap to the game mode, I’m not interested.

So much Conspiracy Theory here…

/popcorn

style.6173:

If the redesign doesn’t remove all the newly added PvE crap to the game mode, I’m not interested.

You’re speaking my language.

They have PvEers test it because they think WvWers are PvEers. Expect the WvW overhaul to be designed with that in mind. Considering that they don’t actually directly ask people what they want this perception of theirs is unlikely to change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LhvuomaJaY

I know of a full TC PvE guild that was invited to test the WvW alpha. It makes no sense since that guild doesn’t even go into WvW. Anet’s logic is so sound.

Going to be difficult to get a proper breakdown of guild types involved since ANet are the only ones with any idea who are allowed to say anything. I figure they’re looking for how to get PvE players interested as well, but they’re not going to do a WvW update and forget to invite any WvW guilds.

Ben K.7329:

Going to be difficult to get a proper breakdown of guild types involved since ANet are the only ones with any idea who are allowed to say anything. I figure they’re looking for how to get PvE players interested as well, but they’re not going to do a WvW update and forget to invite any WvW guilds.

Hi. I see that you’re new here.

Melanion.4892:

Ben K.7329:

Going to be difficult to get a proper breakdown of guild types involved since ANet are the only ones with any idea who are allowed to say anything. I figure they’re looking for how to get PvE players interested as well, but they’re not going to do a WvW update and forget to invite any WvW guilds.

Hi. I see that you’re new here.

It’s not “forgetting” if they do it on purpose, so technically he’s right.

Or if the number is greater than zero. Though it’s entirely possible they could invite a WvW guild by accident because one of them was playing PvE one day.

Melanion.4892:

Ben K.7329:

Going to be difficult to get a proper breakdown of guild types involved since ANet are the only ones with any idea who are allowed to say anything. I figure they’re looking for how to get PvE players interested as well, but they’re not going to do a WvW update and forget to invite any WvW guilds.

Hi. I see that you’re new here.

Thanks for the lols XD

Don’t even see how this is even a big deal. Its not like ANET listens to us players anyway. Think people complained about HOT, and as far as I know, nothing has been done to improve it. Prob still have to fight a champ for a simple hp.

Think people complained about the new maps before they were released, again, ANET shows they simply don’t care and released them any way.

I used to be a hard core WvW player, now I barley log in any more. have moved on, and moving on to BDO.

Oh look my expectations for the overhaul have dropped from zero to zero.

Anet should look at the top WvW guilds from each server, and invite those guilds. Maybe even the top 2 or 3. WvW people need to have their input, and the PvE crowd (most of which don’t like PvP so they don’t WvW) should be minimized.

-begin rant- This is the number one reason why I haven’t bought in to HoT. Why should I give my hard earned money to a company that doesn’t care about the playerbase that remained constant for so long? -end rant-

Sinbold.8723:

Anet should look at the top WvW guilds from each server, and invite those guilds. Maybe even the top 2 or 3. WvW people need to have their input, and the PvE crowd (most of which don’t like PvP so they don’t WvW) should be minimized.

I agree with you. Let the PvE player base test out the new functions for PvE. I wouldn’t test out their maps for them, so I would love the same respect in return. It’s called ‘Stay in your lane’.

why even bother with beta now that numbers are so low, why not just go with a test server ( only for those who bought game …not f2p ) ….and when the wvw community agrees it’s done, ….it’s done.

The irony that the players would be the one to say when it’s done …which will probably be never lol

not to mention a test server will probably reduce the stress on the developers since they won’t have to “hope” it goes over well, it is a test server, so you’d be free to “test” new things without fear of repercussion / buyers remorse. Whatever works and is community approved in the test server, gets moved to the main wvw map. This way it’s not one big shocking change. Make everyone sign a no whining agreement for jumping in the test server.

I’m guessing it wont be the overwhelming numbers in beta that you think it would be, since some people just want to play, not test and deal with bugs….doing real beta can be work.

and make sure you put that skritt gambling bookie, if no one bets, it’s not a good wvw map, no matter what anyone says. it’s really that simple.

To be completely fair, it would make sense for Anet to invite PvE players to try new WvW things.

Anet clearly does not have the same vision of the WvW than most part of the WvW community, the best proof is that since 3 years they never did anything that was asking this community. However, they do not want this game mode to die, so what is the solution? Attracting PvE players, the biggest community of the game.

Who cares about the small WvW community when you can try to make WvW interest PvE players.

3 full servers of wvw guilds in the top tier is hardly “small” further, because of the neglect ….10 x that amount left. PvP’rs are by far the biggest community in any respectable game…the pve community is the small one …it only seems bigger here because the ‘extreme’ pve chased the pvprs away.

In fact, PVP is TRUE end game – it’s where legendary pve’rs go to fight the ultimate opponent. – no one wants to play the same routine game vs the same monsters thousands of time for years and years, thats just the training area for pvp.

somehow this minority pve insider community convinced anet that pve is end game… No …just No. Nothing can be further from the truth.

Here’s what you will get;

loads of pve
megaservers
dumbed down content so casuals can jump in and be teamed up
masteries wiped out or made so as to be useless so as not to impede the above
requirement for H0T
Lots of stuff that appeals to pve casuals and shiny chasers
Almost nothing that appeals to the real wvw crowd (that have all left anyway).
Some bad alliance system that will be gamed to hell by major guilds
More stuff only the biggest guilds can afford to do/get
Shinies. Lots of shinies. To pull in the AP hunters and shiny hunters.

Well, my uncle’s in-game friend knows a guy who knows the OP’s friend and says he does not know what he is talking about.

I think mega server wvw is. Ominous… Oh wait we already have this with EoTM…
Now let’s just extend it out a bit?.

Ricky.4706:

3 full servers of wvw guilds in the top tier is hardly “small” further, because of the neglect ….10 x that amount left. PvP’rs are by far the biggest community in any respectable game…the pve community is the small one …it only seems bigger here because the ‘extreme’ pve chased the pvprs away.

In fact, PVP is TRUE end game – it’s where legendary pve’rs go to fight the ultimate opponent. – no one wants to play the same routine game vs the same monsters thousands of time for years and years, thats just the training area for pvp.

somehow this minority pve insider community convinced anet that pve is end game… No …just No. Nothing can be further from the truth.

Sorry, but pvpers are a minority in every game that offers both pve and pvp.

The “extreme” pve didn’t chase pvpers away, poor professions and lack of roles and turtle slow development did.

PvP is only one part of endgame in a multiple mode game.

Pveers didn’t convince anet of anything, anet did what it wanted to do.

wow what a this? anet are incompetent and are still ruining WvW?

wow it’s almost like it’s the same company!!

last time they invited by going into actual wvw and selecting people that were active and played wvw a lot….

and we allllll told them that i was going to cause problems, but they never wanted us to give feedback about the wvw content. all they wanted was for us to fin exploitable spots, glitches and stress test it. now they want actual input? and they invite a pve guild?

wvw died because of too much pve addons and a massive useless pve map and pve guild gimmicks and 1v1 spvp balance and the unbalance of pve guild addons and pve crybabies that wanted more pve content for the pve community……thats why wvw died. i loved this game and all i used to log on for was wvw. then after anet decided to balance spvp and wvw the same way the downfall of wvw started.
some classes became unkillable(aka warrior spvp buffed)
some classes became unviable(aka confusion nerfed mesmer, aka ranger being a joke)
GWEN meta started
Siege was made op (aka the arrowcart disaster)
zergs became heavy class zergs
pve content obstructed dolyaks, perma contested keeps
the introduction of ascended gear which u have to grind pve for hours for……..
now the pve guild mechanics that are breaking wvw….

honestly, they have destroyed this game mode and it will never come back guys…sad but true

Someone should bring this up on Reddit – you’re much more likely to get the attention of an Anet dev there than you are here.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Someone should bring this up on Reddit – you’re much more likely to get the attention of an Anet dev there than you are here.

It has been. Nothing much has come of it.

WvW died because it was never a very compelling game mode for most of the player base, and the few that did like it started leaving because the class balance got ruined. PvE add-ons were sometimes a nuisance, sometimes ignored – but never bad enough to drive players away.

It needs a rebuild from the ground up to make it compelling. Some actual reason to care who holds what for how long. If you only revert it to the launch state, it’ll still be dead.

Ricky.4706:

3 full servers of wvw guilds in the top tier is hardly “small” further, because of the neglect ….10 x that amount left. PvP’rs are by far the biggest community in any respectable game…the pve community is the small one …it only seems bigger here because the ‘extreme’ pve chased the pvprs away.

In fact, PVP is TRUE end game – it’s where legendary pve’rs go to fight the ultimate opponent. – no one wants to play the same routine game vs the same monsters thousands of time for years and years, thats just the training area for pvp.

somehow this minority pve insider community convinced anet that pve is end game… No …just No. Nothing can be further from the truth.

Yeah, ever since I started playing this game about 2 years ago and noticed so many pve oriented guilds that play the same boss/champs thingies day in and day out i continually just ask myself…why? Why do you care that you can beat a mob in a game? what is the point? Pvp and wvw is what pve is suppose to lead into. Here PvP and WvW is like the land of misfit toys from the old Rudolf claymation.

Lets be honest, WvW is far from dead. It is dead in the sense of the people who first played it and have now moved on, it is dead in the sense of a natural ebb and flow of an MMO, but the game mode is still strong and healthy. The Desert BL’s are starting to get some action now that people are starting to learn them and the fights are quite good. IMO the ability to build waypoints like the old maps would go a long way into improving this.

Just continually shouting “WvW ded gaem” doesn’t change the fact that many people still play and enjoy it. The fight-centric meta is gone (for now) and WvW has become, what it was always intended to be, a game of chess that anyone can join.

Sure the long time players stack EBG because its is safe and familiar and they get the fights they want but the score is not affected by that. The score has always been the providence of the Borderlands. Like it or not, you have to adapt or be left behind.

Just my own opinion.

Trajan.4953:

Lets be honest, WvW is far from dead. It is dead in the sense of the people who first played it and have now moved on, it is dead in the sense of a natural ebb and flow of an MMO, but the game mode is still strong and healthy. The Desert BL’s are starting to get some action now that people are starting to learn them and the fights are quite good. IMO the ability to build waypoints like the old maps would go a long way into improving this.

Just continually shouting “WvW ded gaem” doesn’t change the fact that many people still play and enjoy it. The fight-centric meta is gone (for now) and WvW has become, what it was always intended to be, a game of chess that anyone can join.

Sure the long time *players stack EBG because its is safe and familiar and they get the fights they want but the score is not affected by that. The score has always been the providence of the Borderlands. Like it or not, you have to adapt or be left behind.

Just my own opinion.

You have zero idea what makes a good rvr game…

Most remaining players are in EB because there are fights…

The new bl is atrocious and not conducive to a good pvp expirience. BL maps do nothing except discourage fights, and that’s the opposite purpose of pvp…

Players killing players is the spirit of pvp or don’t you know that?

Each map has a score that counts to the total, but nobody cares about points anymore. PPK is a thing btw…

Even tier 1 is at 1/10th of what it use to be… yeah, the wvw game is dead sorry, and will be a complete ghost town if anet doesn’t perform miracles.

The only people that have to “adapt or get left behind” are the devs… GW2 will have competition in the future where there will be an entire game built around pvp… 500+ person mass battles, unique classes and actual roles, rvr dungeons and underworld, all structures will be player created, better stealth mechanics too… The entire game will be a true pvpers paradise…

Don’t worry, though, when anet flubs again you can have all the wvw maps to play door bash and seige chess against your friends. Maybe players will host dueling tournaments in smc too…

Trajan.4953:

The fight-centric meta is gone (for now) and WvW has become, what it was always intended to be, a game of chess that anyone can join.

Sure the long time players stack EBG because its is safe and familiar and they get the fights they want but the score is not affected by that. The score has always been the providence of the Borderlands. Like it or not, you have to adapt or be left behind.

Just my own opinion.

But the score is largely irrelevant. So, yes anyone can join the “chess game” and move pieces around but ultimately to no purpose or effect. This has been the big problem from day one. Take a keep, lose a keep it’s doesn’t matter, or it matters even less now since you can’t WP enemy keeps. The stab changes that resulted in the pirate ship ( or is it space ship meta now?) and elite unbalance has made most of the stuff one can do in WvW a lot less fun, in my opinion. But there are other games to play and other things to do with ones time, and that is what I have move on to, we’ll see if the almighty overhaul peeks my interest, whatever year it is finally released….

@Swagger and Tspatula, you guys must not be familar with Maguuma and CCCP in particular. CCCP plays wvw for the sole purpose of hardcore ppt’ing; particularly flipping empty structures and the new BL has the market cornered on empty in general. These guys go through stacks of guild catas in a matchup.

I’ve little hope for WvW personally. So little attention for so long by the dev’s has really done loads of damage. What made wvw so great, imo, was that it was a delicate balance of BL moms/dads, blobbers, zergbusters, havok and roamers. The lack of skill split with PVE/PVP has mostly turned the fights into glass v glass plick/CC spam and hence the fights groups have mostly moved on. The auto upgrade and on the new BL’s poor strategic layout made it so the moms/dads weren’t needed and validated by doing upgrades so no need for them to stay. And with the new upgrade buffs, and again the poor layout of the new BLs, defending has become extremely extremely easy so you either havok something that is empty or you don’t take anything at all. The thick and diverse population is what made wvw fun. What’s here now is garbage, and unfortunately the harder and harder Anet chases new players and PVE’ers to come check wvw out the more quickly the WvW veteran population bleeds out and often swallowed up in the MMO churn of leaving the game entirely.

In all seriousness if you were in Anet’s shoes who would you pick to beta test a wvw map or major changes?
Roamers and fights guilds can do their thing in essentially any open area. A bunch of fights guilds scrimming each other for a weekend on the new map might be fun, but offers next to zero useful feedback on the map design and mechanics itself. The maps need to be strategically tested for assaulting and defending objectives first and foremost. On the old BLs when we wanted to get a fight going we would go and hit NW or NE tower and use the enemy BL moms/dads to call in their map blob to defend their precious bay. We’d get the fight we wanted and they’d enjoy defending their digital sandcastle from being kicked over. It was an evening of fun for all involved. But this all hinged on first and foremost someone caring about upgrading and defending something.

A- net should invite some PPT super heroes , so we can have more defensive tactics
They should also invite PvE friends so We can skip pve content…. we go inside WWW to PvE…

For real…. A-net just make WWW game mode : Realm Vs Realm not Realm vs Siege vs Pve tactics

the current wvw scoring system is a pve rule, get rid of it.

ANY pvp’r worth their weight in salt knows that to win that fight you just join the biggest server.

pvp guys don’t demand as much as the pve guys, the problem all along has been the wvw guys taking advice from the pve community.

wvw should be one huge spvp practice arena – where guilds can train their teams on the battlefield.

For the record CCCP is NOT about hardcore PPT. WE have always been about locking a server down and making Fites Guildz have to come and deal with us. The score controls the tier and we maintain it but, at the end of the day, it’s just about controlling the enemies guilds. If you don’t come and deal with us, you lose all your stuff, if/when you do, expect a bad Raid Time experience. It’s Havoc and manipulation and we love it.

Trajan.4953:

For the record CCCP is NOT about hardcore PPT. WE have always been about locking a server down and making Fites Guildz have to come and deal with us.

That’s all well and good, but im sure those fight guilds would like it if you fought back ?

Pretty sure that’s where your problems begins.

LOL zero problem there. A broken pony is an obedient one.

Naix.8156:

@Swagger and Tspatula, you guys must not be familar with Maguuma and CCCP in particular. CCCP plays wvw for the sole purpose of hardcore ppt’ing; particularly flipping empty structures and the new BL has the market cornered on empty in general. These guys go through stacks of guild catas in a matchup.

LOL, you could not be farther from the truth… Sounds like CCCP took away your cookies….