Guild Wars 2

Let’s consider what would happen if this guild wasn’t "gvg"ing these other guilds. What would have happened if, instead of fighting the guilds in open field, they decided to go after your hills, or garri? Instead, that guild “contributing nothing” to capturing a tower kept entire enemy guilds distracted from capturing anything.
I play in one of these guilds that do “nothing but waste server space” and the 20 of us kept an entire map queue (3 guilds of around 30 players) occupied with fights for a whole night. Know what happened when we ended raid? That map queue took everything on the map. So get off your high horse saying that these fighting guilds contribute nothing to your precious ppt. Because they’re fighting the fights that you can’t win.

Running away from an even contest; the mark of the true pug.

Your original post was asking people to take GvG to the OS. It has been explained several times why this is not always an option. I will explain it again.

1. There is not always space in OS.

2. OS is a magnet for trolls and griefers.

Quick Mouse.7635:

Let’s consider what would happen if this guild wasn’t "gvg"ing these other guilds. What would have happened if, instead of fighting the guilds in open field, they decided to go after your hills, or garri? Instead, that guild “contributing nothing” to capturing a tower kept entire enemy guilds distracted from capturing anything.
I play in one of these guilds that do “nothing but waste server space” and the 20 of us kept an entire map queue (3 guilds of around 30 players) occupied with fights for a whole night. Know what happened when we ended raid? That map queue took everything on the map. So get off your high horse saying that these fighting guilds contribute nothing to your precious ppt. Because they’re fighting the fights that you can’t win.

Yeah cuz a GvG jamming up the queues on their own servers BL during primetime is going to stop the 3rd server from comming in and capturing objectives.

While it wuld be nice if the devs finally gave us a structured GvG system separate from WvW, it exists fine and healthily enough in WvW’s current state.

WvW is meant to be an ultimate endgame sandbox of realm vs. realm combat.

Anything goes there, and no one should complain about how other players and groups of players spend their time there.

nearlight.3064:

While it wuld be nice if the devs finally gave us a structured GvG system separate from WvW, it exists fine and healthily enough in WvW’s current state.

WvW is meant to be an ultimate endgame sandbox of realm vs. realm combat.

Anything goes there, and no one should complain about how other players and groups of players spend their time there.

Anything goes lets not complain about siege trolls eithers, or map chat trolls, or glitching. Its all just fun who cares if a small group of people ruin the game.

WTB an Agramon Island style map (DAoC) unlike EoTM (no falling off map) to GvG on. PST….

Solution: GvG matchmaking in an instanced arena

“After all i wonder whats the name of game again?. Shame ANET seemed to forget that.”

Stop quoting that when the name of the Game has nothing to do with the fact it has little to do with it supposedly being Catered towards in-game Guilds and GvG, it would need some major changes for people to make GvG more than some community based game-style that is as legitimate as anything within the WvW Sandbox. This game ain’t esports like alot of GvGers seem to act like with their attitudes.

As flawed as the PPT/Scoring system is or how badly balanced Populations are, which ends up making a mockery of the Point system; people can play WvW as they want because it is not limited to people who just want to play WvW in a way they prefer.

I concur that anything goes in WvW, some worse than others like the Hackers and Spies/Saboteurs nevermind GvG trolls really.

nearlight.3064:

Anything goes there, and no one should complain about how other players and groups of players spend their time there.

Really? So, like I said earlier, if I make a guild whose sole purpose is to track and wreck any GvG activities you will still think that? I can already see the Guild sig [GvGW] (GvG Wrecking crew). When you play the "anything goes "card, you better be prepared for “anything”. This is a very absurd stance to be blunt about it.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

This game ain’t esports like many GvGers seem to act like ego maniacs with their attitudes.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

people can play WvW as they want because it is not limited to people who just want to play WvW in a way they prefer.

Contradicting much? It has nothing to do with the group of players and guilds thinking it’s an esport or anything of the likes. If they thought about it like that, those would end up playing DOTA or Starcraft.

It is exactly how you put it, they play it in the way they prefer to play the game. They are GVG Enthusiasts and enjoy to compete with one another as WVW offers that type of play.

Pretty narrow-minded thinking Rubio..

Then I hope most people have that attitude as you state they have, rather than bringing out statements and things like “PPT Heroes” and ‘play PPT when you enemies sleep or work’, because playing to take objectives or defending is bad in WvW, even if you have to use x amounts of siege against the odds? (even unconventional Golem defense)

Otherwise I know people hop into s/tPvP if they want PvP that isn’t Zergy round here, unless they can find some good small scale.

Inside the OS is for Duels and GvG (and JP completists) even though you get trolls, to avoid that you need an instance that doesn’t allow that.
We play for fights more often than not lately, yet we do our fair share for Desolation like many others – some do not.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

nearlight.3064:

Anything goes there, and no one should complain about how other players and groups of players spend their time there.

Really? So, like I said earlier, if I make a guild whose sole purpose is to track and wreck any GvG activities you will still think that? I can already see the Guild sig [GvGW] (GvG Wrecking crew). When you play the "anything goes "card, you better be prepared for “anything”. This is a very absurd stance to be blunt about it.

Then bring it. If you assjam my guild or any other guild during a GvG we can and WILL wipe you. You may have ruined a GvG match, but we’ll just reset it elsewhere where you can’t find us. Thats assuming you find enough unpleasant people that are actually good ZvZ players to even make such a guild, which I doubt that you will. They’re all in guilds they’re absolutely loyal to, and tend to appreciate GvG and respect it as an important community function of WvW guilds even if they don’t participate. And I’m sure such a thing would ruin the reputation of your guild and anyone in that guild.

While my guild typically focuses on fights in open field against other guilds (we’re reforming our GvG team now since we just moved), we do our fair share to help out the PPT good of the server. We even had an open server wide raid on SoS that anyone could join, in which we captured objectives while fighting off enemy guilds along the way. Most other guilds I know that are fight oriented and that have GvG teams do not just run around not contributing anything to WvW, they take objectives and help take objectives, and they fight off enemy servers so pugs can cap things without being stopped.

Anyway, as for the sandboxy nature of WvW, where anything really does go, there are images and reputations to be upheld. Many guilds only assjam others if the guild they want to assjam has previously done it to them.

In other games, like the extremely sandboxy but kinda bland archeage, there a player based justice systems that let other players punish one another for commiting crimes against allied players. It’d be cool if something like that could help persecute spys or siege trolls or whatever, as there isn’t an actual crime system in WvW and nor should there be. Guilds fighting other guilds in organized and fair matches in open fields is perfectly fine.

If anything you’re one being absurd here by stating that everyone in the map has to be actively contributing towards PPT 24/7, when people who enjoy guilds fighting other guilds don’t take away anything from said PPT and in many cases provide assistance whether direct or inderect to helping their server gain points.

I’m kind of curious to know which server the OP is on because a similar discussion came up recently on my server.

Then bring it. If you assjam my guild or any other guild during a GvG we can and WILL wipe you. You may have ruined a GvG match, but we’ll just reset it elsewhere where you can’t find us. Thats assuming you find enough unpleasant people that are actually good ZvZ players to even make such a guild, which I doubt that you will. They’re all in guilds they’re absolutely loyal to, and tend to appreciate GvG and respect it as an important community function of WvW guilds even if they don’t participate. And I’m sure such a thing would ruin the reputation of your guild and anyone in that guild.

If I “assjam” your Guild, me or you wiping the other will be irrelevant. The sole purpose of that guild (purely hypothetical) will have been accomplished by disturbing the activity itself. Even if I die and die and re-die and die again, your GvG experience will bu ruined. Heck, you guys are complaining about a few trolls in OS? Imagine how much fun it will be when some people decide they derive their fun from making your activity impossible to play like you want.

Oh, and you will try to wipe us… I myself have my fare share of dragon level and gold scouts that ended up looking a lot less “leet” when then tasted the floor in a duel. Of course I’ve tasted my fare share of dust too but the point remain that you might want to watch it with the “we are leet and therefore so much better than any of you” attitude. You can only end up looking bad in the end since the best you can hope for is living to your own hype.

But again, the goal of my previous intervention was not to threaten but to make some people rethink their very weird thinking. The “anything goes card” is not good for anybody but the trolls.

While my guild typically focuses on fights in open field against other guilds (we’re reforming our GvG team now since we just moved), we do our fair share to help out the PPT good of the server. We even had an open server wide raid on SoS that anyone could join, in which we captured objectives while fighting off enemy guilds along the way. Most other guilds I know that are fight oriented and that have GvG teams do not just run around not contributing anything to WvW, they take objectives and help take objectives, and they fight off enemy servers so pugs can cap things without being stopped.

I’m not saying ALL GvG are a problem. I’m telling you that it has and it can. I’m also telling you that if things continue as they are the problem will only get bigger.

Anyway, as for the sandboxy nature of WvW, where anything really does go, there are images and reputations to be upheld. Many guilds only assjam others if the guild they want to assjam has previously done it to them.

Then lets just not “assjam” ourselves…

In other games, like the extremely sandboxy but kinda bland archeage, there a player based justice systems that let other players punish one another for commiting crimes against allied players. It’d be cool if something like that could help persecute spys or siege trolls or whatever, as there isn’t an actual crime system in WvW and nor should there be. Guilds fighting other guilds in organized and fair matches in open fields is perfectly fine.

If anything you’re one being absurd here by stating that everyone in the map has to be actively contributing towards PPT 24/7, when people who enjoy guilds fighting other guilds don’t take away anything from said PPT and in many cases provide assistance whether direct or inderect to helping their server gain points.

Sorry but no, just no. Is straw man your only way to argue ppl? I NEVER EVER said anything remotely close to “everyone in the map has to be actively contributing towards PPT 24/7”. This is pure BS. I’m merely saying, be mindful of the impact your play style has on the game. It wasn’t particularly fun to be queue on EBG only to find out that several guilds were doing their little business without PPting at all.

WvW is akin to a hockey game and your GvG can some times be akin to hijacking some player space on the ice to do figure skating because you can’t be bother playing the puck… too “leet” for the puck.

The overwhelming negative response to your topic should tell you what the community feels about the situation.

AsmallChicken.9634:

The overwhelming negative response to your topic should tell you what the community feels about the situation.

Yeah, the overwhelming maybe 20 ppl who have bothered reading this thread including me represent how the WvW community feel about the issue… make sense.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Sorry but no, just no. Is straw man your only way to argue ppl? I NEVER EVER said anything remotely close to “everyone in the map has to be actively contributing towards PPT 24/7”. This is pure BS. I’m merely saying, be mindful of the impact your play style has on the game. It wasn’t particularly fun to be queue on EBG only to find out that several guilds were doing their little business without PPting at all.

So let me try to understand this, you may have never said that everyone has to contribute to PPT all the time, but you also feel despondent when you can’t get into a map when guilds aren’t PPTing? If we’re not supposed to PPT all the time, what else is there to do, run around in circles and have picnics with hylek in EBG?

That sounds like a direct contradiction to me.

And yeah your hypothetical GvG busting guild, even if it did get formed, wouldn’t amount to anything more than a single drop in a limitless ocean.

Oh… so that server. Interesting…

I guess that’s what happen when you stack all GvG guilds in a tier that have a lot of people already…

Jeez, this thread is still alive. I though it was pretty much finished yesterday, but I guess not. Wasn’t the OP “Done” now too, I recall him saying that maybe 3 or four times, yet he still thinks he can make a valid point by replying. Just end it. I though I summed it up quite nicely when I said “There is literally nothing you could ever do about it, so don’t waste your breath”, but I guess the message wasn’t received.

warriorjrd.8695:

Jeez, this thread is still alive. I though it was pretty much finished yesterday, but I guess not. Wasn’t the OP “Done” now too, I recall him saying that maybe 3 or four times, yet he still thinks he can make a valid point by replying. Just end it. I though I summed it up quite nicely when I said “There is literally nothing you could ever do about it, so don’t waste your breath”, but I guess the message wasn’t received.

Yeah I was a little concerned and alarmed when he jumped my harmless, happy post about the sandbox nature of WvW with very threatening and alarmingly absurd ideas. Which kind of set. me. off.

@OP

Wait, I’m confused. You don’t mind that people are playing how they want, you don’t mind they are having fun, but their way of having fun is interfering with your fun and would like them to take it elsewhere because of queing issues? I’m just trying to understand your point…

However I would say that GvG even in BLs would actually be helpful. They are specially quipped and trained to deal with zergs. So instead why not work WITH them? If they are intercepting zergs, other guilds or not, you can go and take points. Gather a point capturing group and go cap points while the GvGers deal with the other zergs/GvGers? If the enemy zerg is occupied, they aren’t capping points, or defending, making it easier for your group to capture them. It seems that in general you are upset, not about server ques, but that others aren’t playing how you expect them to. Go get a commander tag, and organize WITH the GvGers and go do what you have fun doing. And in the end everyone wins.

pdavis.8031:

@OP

Wait, I’m confused. You don’t mind that people are playing how they want, you don’t mind they are having fun, but their way of having fun is interfering with your fun and would like them to take it elsewhere because of queing issues? I’m just trying to understand your point…

However I would say that GvG even in BLs would actually be helpful. They are specially quipped and trained to deal with zergs. So instead why not work WITH them? If they are intercepting zergs, other guilds or not, you can go and take points. Gather a point capturing group and go cap points while the GvGers deal with the other zergs/GvGers? If the enemy zerg is occupied, they aren’t capping points, or defending, making it easier for your group to capture them. It seems that in general you are upset, not about server ques, but that others aren’t playing how you expect them to. Go get a commander tag, and organize WITH the GvGers and go do what you have fun doing. And in the end everyone wins.

Their not there to intercept zergs or work with anyone.. they are using a WvW map as a free PvP arena.. We all understand they don’t have alot of choice but we also understand that it messes with map queues if you host on your own BL during primetime.

displayname.8315:

pdavis.8031:

@OP

Wait, I’m confused. You don’t mind that people are playing how they want, you don’t mind they are having fun, but their way of having fun is interfering with your fun and would like them to take it elsewhere because of queing issues? I’m just trying to understand your point…

However I would say that GvG even in BLs would actually be helpful. They are specially quipped and trained to deal with zergs. So instead why not work WITH them? If they are intercepting zergs, other guilds or not, you can go and take points. Gather a point capturing group and go cap points while the GvGers deal with the other zergs/GvGers? If the enemy zerg is occupied, they aren’t capping points, or defending, making it easier for your group to capture them. It seems that in general you are upset, not about server ques, but that others aren’t playing how you expect them to. Go get a commander tag, and organize WITH the GvGers and go do what you have fun doing. And in the end everyone wins.

Their not there to intercept zergs or work with anyone.. they are using a WvW map as a free PvP arena.. We all understand they don’t have alot of choice but we also understand that it messes with map queues if you host on your own BL during primetime.

Yeah, but telling guilds not to do that is pointless.

You’re better off trying to get the Devs to make structured GvG real or to make overflows for the OS like everyone has been trying to do for a very long time, which would actually make everyone 100% happy, but the devs won’t listen. Until then, guilds are free and certainly allowed to do as they please because of the sandbox nature of WvW.

Wait, I’m confused. You don’t mind that people are playing how they want, you don’t mind they are having fun, but their way of having fun is interfering with your fun and would like them to take it elsewhere because of queing issues? I’m just trying to understand your point…

Is it something in the water?

I don’t mind them playing how the hell they want as long as they play for the kitten puck (war score). What is so kitten confusing about it that it has to be told and retold in every possible ways?

However I would say that GvG even in BLs would actually be helpful. They are specially quipped and trained to deal with zergs. So instead why not work WITH them? If they are intercepting zergs, other guilds or not, you can go and take points. Gather a point capturing group and go cap points while the GvGers deal with the other zergs/GvGers? If the enemy zerg is occupied, they aren’t capping points, or defending, making it easier for your group to capture them. It seems that in general you are upset, not about server ques, but that others aren’t playing how you expect them to. Go get a commander tag, and organize WITH the GvGers and go do what you have fun doing. And in the end everyone wins.

Oh for crying out loud will you ppl learn to read…

The point is they won’t try to intercept any zerg at all. In fact if you so much as approach the sacred zone where GvG is “hosted” you will swiftly be told to go away and mind your own business. Woe to anyone who would drop a meteor in the middle of it… As if the enemy being a hitable target with capping potential was not “my business” in that context.

nearlight.3064:

displayname.8315:

pdavis.8031:

@OP

Wait, I’m confused. You don’t mind that people are playing how they want, you don’t mind they are having fun, but their way of having fun is interfering with your fun and would like them to take it elsewhere because of queing issues? I’m just trying to understand your point…

However I would say that GvG even in BLs would actually be helpful. They are specially quipped and trained to deal with zergs. So instead why not work WITH them? If they are intercepting zergs, other guilds or not, you can go and take points. Gather a point capturing group and go cap points while the GvGers deal with the other zergs/GvGers? If the enemy zerg is occupied, they aren’t capping points, or defending, making it easier for your group to capture them. It seems that in general you are upset, not about server ques, but that others aren’t playing how you expect them to. Go get a commander tag, and organize WITH the GvGers and go do what you have fun doing. And in the end everyone wins.

Their not there to intercept zergs or work with anyone.. they are using a WvW map as a free PvP arena.. We all understand they don’t have alot of choice but we also understand that it messes with map queues if you host on your own BL during primetime.

Yeah, but telling guilds not to do that is pointless.

You’re better off trying to get the Devs to make structured GvG real or to make overflows for the OS like everyone has been trying to do for a very long time, which would actually make everyone 100% happy, but the devs won’t listen. Until then, guilds are free and certainly allowed to do as they please because of the sandbox nature of WvW.

Since when it’s pointless to discuss issues? Isn’t it how solutions eventually come from?

warriorjrd.8695:

Jeez, this thread is still alive. I though it was pretty much finished yesterday, but I guess not. Wasn’t the OP “Done” now too, I recall him saying that maybe 3 or four times, yet he still thinks he can make a valid point by replying. Just end it. I though I summed it up quite nicely when I said “There is literally nothing you could ever do about it, so don’t waste your breath”, but I guess the message wasn’t received.

I’m done trying to change people’s mind about it all. However there are limit at letting others putting words in your mouth. It help to close the issue when others also let it go. But no, they had to fill my mouth with anything but what I actually said…

nearlight.3064:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Sorry but no, just no. Is straw man your only way to argue ppl? I NEVER EVER said anything remotely close to “everyone in the map has to be actively contributing towards PPT 24/7”. This is pure BS. I’m merely saying, be mindful of the impact your play style has on the game. It wasn’t particularly fun to be queue on EBG only to find out that several guilds were doing their little business without PPting at all.

So let me try to understand this, you may have never said that everyone has to contribute to PPT all the time, but you also feel despondent when you can’t get into a map when guilds aren’t PPTing? If we’re not supposed to PPT all the time, what else is there to do, run around in circles and have picnics with hylek in EBG?

That sounds like a direct contradiction to me.

And yeah your hypothetical GvG busting guild, even if it did get formed, wouldn’t amount to anything more than a single drop in a limitless ocean.

Unless you are in a WvW server 24/7 I don’t even see how your stance make any sense. If you play 20 min on WvW server do your best for the home team. Is it that hard to understand?

If I’m feeling the need to make a thread about it, it’s because the phenomenon is starting to take some hard to ignore proportion at times. At least iddle people will be kicked after 10 min… people hijacking the hockey match to do figure skating won’t.

There’s a few different discussions going on here.

On FA the event was a map queue on FABL. Defenders were trying to respond to a 30-man zerg but there was a queue because of one or several GvGs and their audience was large. I wasn’t there, but according to the report, no one watching the GvG responded so it ended up being 10 defenders against a 30-man zerg (notice that the GvG guilds were not tying up this zerg?). Most GvG guilds are responsive to defense events like that because they love large fights. So some of the posts seen on this thread are about what happened on FABL and asking guilds to consider avoiding the home BL for GvG. That’s how it was done pre-OS during the golden days of GvG and is not an unreasonable request.

The OP though is not on FA and is talking about something that happened on his server in EBG. FA didn’t really have a problem with it since our concern is more about the home bl being queued.

What hasn’t been spoken about here yet is that there are a select few guilds, which I won’t name here, that have gone out of their way to be hostile towards those that are playing the PPT game. Everyone asks for respect for their preferred game mode and typically it works in a begrudging way but respect is also earned and goes both ways. Echoing nearlight, asking anything of these specific guilds will be pointless. The sandbox nature of WvW simply means that these trolls can and will be trolled back since talk with them is pointless. So please be aware that the majority of GvG guilds are not like that and do give some consideration for the rest of the players on their servers.

Chaba.5410:

There’s a few different discussions going on here.

On FA the event was a map queue on FABL. Defenders were trying to respond to a 30-man zerg but there was a queue because of one or several GvGs and their audience was large. I wasn’t there, but according to the report, no one watching the GvG responded so it ended up being 10 defenders against a 30-man zerg (notice that the GvG guilds were not tying up this zerg?). Most GvG guilds are responsive to defense events like that because they love large fights. So some of the posts seen on this thread are about what happened on FABL and asking guilds to consider avoiding the home BL for GvG. That’s how it was done pre-OS during the golden days of GvG and is not an unreasonable request.

The OP though is not on FA and is talking about something that happened on his server in EBG. FA didn’t really have a problem with it since our concern is more about the home bl being queued.

What hasn’t been spoken about here yet is that there are a select few guilds, which I won’t name here, that have gone out of their way to be hostile towards those that are playing the PPT game. Everyone asks for respect for their preferred game mode and typically it works in a begrudging way but respect is also earned and goes both ways. Echoing nearlight, asking anything of these specific guilds will be pointless. The sandbox nature of WvW simply means that these trolls can and will be trolled back since talk with them is pointless. So please be aware that the majority of GvG guilds are not like that and do give some consideration for the rest of the players on their servers.

Rest assured that I’m fully aware that the huge majority of people playing, GvG or otherwise, are of good will and intentions. I appreciate a response like your here since it seeks to address the point and does so with respect rather than belittle the things that are said.

I don’t seek to banish GvG. Far from it. I only wish people to be considerate toward others and the consequences their presence in time and space can have on the WvW game. There is also a growing attitude problem though…

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Wait, I’m confused. You don’t mind that people are playing how they want, you don’t mind they are having fun, but their way of having fun is interfering with your fun and would like them to take it elsewhere because of queing issues? I’m just trying to understand your point…

Is it something in the water?

I don’t mind them playing how the hell they want as long as they play for the kitten puck (war score). What is so kitten confusing about it that it has to be told and retold in every possible ways?

However I would say that GvG even in BLs would actually be helpful. They are specially quipped and trained to deal with zergs. So instead why not work WITH them? If they are intercepting zergs, other guilds or not, you can go and take points. Gather a point capturing group and go cap points while the GvGers deal with the other zergs/GvGers? If the enemy zerg is occupied, they aren’t capping points, or defending, making it easier for your group to capture them. It seems that in general you are upset, not about server ques, but that others aren’t playing how you expect them to. Go get a commander tag, and organize WITH the GvGers and go do what you have fun doing. And in the end everyone wins.

Oh for crying out loud will you ppl learn to read…

The point is they won’t try to intercept any zerg at all. In fact if you so much as approach the sacred zone where GvG is “hosted” you will swiftly be told to go away and mind your own business. Woe to anyone who would drop a meteor in the middle of it… As if the enemy being a hitable target with capping potential was not “my business” in that context.

I bolded the part wherein the confusion lies. You don’t mind how people play how they want as long as they play for the score. It’s a major contradiction. You’re saying (my intreptation) that you can do whatever, BUT it must be according to how you believe it should be done.

Also as far as guilds telling you off, it may have been your approach. Based on this thread, I can only assume it came across as hostile. Something along the lines of “If you aren’t going to cap points, then take your GvG elsewhere.” I would suggest, again, maybe working with them instead of against them. Maybe something like “Hey, I get you are doing your GvG thing, and thats fine, but would you consider also running zerg interferance when you are finished? It would really help our server out and maybe we can win this one.” Out of the larger guilds I’ve encountered, the leaders (who would likely be heading up such events anyway) aren’t general kittens, and are actually very reasonable people who might respond in kind.

pdavis.8031:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Wait, I’m confused. You don’t mind that people are playing how they want, you don’t mind they are having fun, but their way of having fun is interfering with your fun and would like them to take it elsewhere because of queing issues? I’m just trying to understand your point…

Is it something in the water?

I don’t mind them playing how the hell they want as long as they play for the kitten puck (war score). What is so kitten confusing about it that it has to be told and retold in every possible ways?

However I would say that GvG even in BLs would actually be helpful. They are specially quipped and trained to deal with zergs. So instead why not work WITH them? If they are intercepting zergs, other guilds or not, you can go and take points. Gather a point capturing group and go cap points while the GvGers deal with the other zergs/GvGers? If the enemy zerg is occupied, they aren’t capping points, or defending, making it easier for your group to capture them. It seems that in general you are upset, not about server ques, but that others aren’t playing how you expect them to. Go get a commander tag, and organize WITH the GvGers and go do what you have fun doing. And in the end everyone wins.

Oh for crying out loud will you ppl learn to read…

The point is they won’t try to intercept any zerg at all. In fact if you so much as approach the sacred zone where GvG is “hosted” you will swiftly be told to go away and mind your own business. Woe to anyone who would drop a meteor in the middle of it… As if the enemy being a hitable target with capping potential was not “my business” in that context.

I bolded the part wherein the confusion lies. You don’t mind how people play how they want as long as they play for the score. It’s a major contradiction. You’re saying (my intreptation) that you can do whatever, BUT it must be according to how you believe it should be done.

Also as far as guilds telling you off, it may have been your approach. Based on this thread, I can only assume it came across as hostile. Something along the lines of “If you aren’t going to cap points, then take your GvG elsewhere.” I would suggest, again, maybe working with them instead of against them. Maybe something like “Hey, I get you are doing your GvG thing, and thats fine, but would you consider also running zerg interferance when you are finished? It would really help our server out and maybe we can win this one.” Out of the larger guilds I’ve encountered, the leaders (who would likely be heading up such events anyway) aren’t general kittens, and are actually very reasonable people who might respond in kind.

Well, to retake my hockey game analogy, as long as you play the puck and ultimately help it get closer to the goal in a respectful way I don’t mind if you choose to escort Dolyak, repair stuff, zerg, roam or whatever new innovative, but in line with the spirit of the game, way you think of. It’s when the number of ppl who refuse to play the puck become so great that I’m starting to feel like the game is being hijacked.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

pdavis.8031:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Wait, I’m confused. You don’t mind that people are playing how they want, you don’t mind they are having fun, but their way of having fun is interfering with your fun and would like them to take it elsewhere because of queing issues? I’m just trying to understand your point…

Is it something in the water?

I don’t mind them playing how the hell they want as long as they play for the kitten puck (war score). What is so kitten confusing about it that it has to be told and retold in every possible ways?

However I would say that GvG even in BLs would actually be helpful. They are specially quipped and trained to deal with zergs. So instead why not work WITH them? If they are intercepting zergs, other guilds or not, you can go and take points. Gather a point capturing group and go cap points while the GvGers deal with the other zergs/GvGers? If the enemy zerg is occupied, they aren’t capping points, or defending, making it easier for your group to capture them. It seems that in general you are upset, not about server ques, but that others aren’t playing how you expect them to. Go get a commander tag, and organize WITH the GvGers and go do what you have fun doing. And in the end everyone wins.

Oh for crying out loud will you ppl learn to read…

The point is they won’t try to intercept any zerg at all. In fact if you so much as approach the sacred zone where GvG is “hosted” you will swiftly be told to go away and mind your own business. Woe to anyone who would drop a meteor in the middle of it… As if the enemy being a hitable target with capping potential was not “my business” in that context.

I bolded the part wherein the confusion lies. You don’t mind how people play how they want as long as they play for the score. It’s a major contradiction. You’re saying (my intreptation) that you can do whatever, BUT it must be according to how you believe it should be done.

Also as far as guilds telling you off, it may have been your approach. Based on this thread, I can only assume it came across as hostile. Something along the lines of “If you aren’t going to cap points, then take your GvG elsewhere.” I would suggest, again, maybe working with them instead of against them. Maybe something like “Hey, I get you are doing your GvG thing, and thats fine, but would you consider also running zerg interferance when you are finished? It would really help our server out and maybe we can win this one.” Out of the larger guilds I’ve encountered, the leaders (who would likely be heading up such events anyway) aren’t general kittens, and are actually very reasonable people who might respond in kind.

Well, to retake my hockey game analogy, as long as you play the puck and ultimately help it get closer to the goal in a respectful way I don’t mind if you choose to escort Dolyak, repair stuff, zerg, roam or whatever new innovative, but in line with the spirit of the game, way you think of. It’s when the number of ppl who refuse to play the puck become so great that I’m starting to feel like the game is being hijacked.

So large scale battles as a guild, vs another guild, is not in the spirit of WvW? But zerging to a point, capping it, zerging to the next point, capping it, ad infinitfum, while an enemy zerg (or 2) follow behind and retake those same points is? While I can see why you would be frustrated while a GvG is going on and messing up the map que, you have to remember that the same thing is happening on the opposing server. If there is a guild fielding say 100 people for GvG, that leaves 50 others to do whatever. Same with the opposing server, if they are fielding 100 GvGers, then they only have 50 to do whatever. Why not take advantage of it? Theres a much smaller chance of running into a large zerg, so you can quietly and quickly take multiple camps/towers/etc. while the GvG is going on. Then when it’s finished, people come back on and Hey!! you already have half the map claimed! And now you can rain hurt upon the enemy.

pdavis.8031:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

pdavis.8031:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Wait, I’m confused. You don’t mind that people are playing how they want, you don’t mind they are having fun, but their way of having fun is interfering with your fun and would like them to take it elsewhere because of queing issues? I’m just trying to understand your point…

Is it something in the water?

I don’t mind them playing how the hell they want as long as they play for the kitten puck (war score). What is so kitten confusing about it that it has to be told and retold in every possible ways?

However I would say that GvG even in BLs would actually be helpful. They are specially quipped and trained to deal with zergs. So instead why not work WITH them? If they are intercepting zergs, other guilds or not, you can go and take points. Gather a point capturing group and go cap points while the GvGers deal with the other zergs/GvGers? If the enemy zerg is occupied, they aren’t capping points, or defending, making it easier for your group to capture them. It seems that in general you are upset, not about server ques, but that others aren’t playing how you expect them to. Go get a commander tag, and organize WITH the GvGers and go do what you have fun doing. And in the end everyone wins.

Oh for crying out loud will you ppl learn to read…

The point is they won’t try to intercept any zerg at all. In fact if you so much as approach the sacred zone where GvG is “hosted” you will swiftly be told to go away and mind your own business. Woe to anyone who would drop a meteor in the middle of it… As if the enemy being a hitable target with capping potential was not “my business” in that context.

I bolded the part wherein the confusion lies. You don’t mind how people play how they want as long as they play for the score. It’s a major contradiction. You’re saying (my intreptation) that you can do whatever, BUT it must be according to how you believe it should be done.

Also as far as guilds telling you off, it may have been your approach. Based on this thread, I can only assume it came across as hostile. Something along the lines of “If you aren’t going to cap points, then take your GvG elsewhere.” I would suggest, again, maybe working with them instead of against them. Maybe something like “Hey, I get you are doing your GvG thing, and thats fine, but would you consider also running zerg interferance when you are finished? It would really help our server out and maybe we can win this one.” Out of the larger guilds I’ve encountered, the leaders (who would likely be heading up such events anyway) aren’t general kittens, and are actually very reasonable people who might respond in kind.

Well, to retake my hockey game analogy, as long as you play the puck and ultimately help it get closer to the goal in a respectful way I don’t mind if you choose to escort Dolyak, repair stuff, zerg, roam or whatever new innovative, but in line with the spirit of the game, way you think of. It’s when the number of ppl who refuse to play the puck become so great that I’m starting to feel like the game is being hijacked.

So large scale battles as a guild, vs another guild, is not in the spirit of WvW? But zerging to a point, capping it, zerging to the next point, capping it, ad infinitfum, while an enemy zerg (or 2) follow behind and retake those same points is? While I can see why you would be frustrated while a GvG is going on and messing up the map que, you have to remember that the same thing is happening on the opposing server. If there is a guild fielding say 100 people for GvG, that leaves 50 others to do whatever. Same with the opposing server, if they are fielding 100 GvGers, then they only have 50 to do whatever. Why not take advantage of it? Theres a much smaller chance of running into a large zerg, so you can quietly and quickly take multiple camps/towers/etc. while the GvG is going on. Then when it’s finished, people come back on and Hey!! you already have half the map claimed! And now you can rain hurt upon the enemy.

Are your actions aimed at helping increase your world score? You have your answer.

pdavis.8031:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

pdavis.8031:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Wait, I’m confused. You don’t mind that people are playing how they want, you don’t mind they are having fun, but their way of having fun is interfering with your fun and would like them to take it elsewhere because of queing issues? I’m just trying to understand your point…

Is it something in the water?

I don’t mind them playing how the hell they want as long as they play for the kitten puck (war score). What is so kitten confusing about it that it has to be told and retold in every possible ways?

However I would say that GvG even in BLs would actually be helpful. They are specially quipped and trained to deal with zergs. So instead why not work WITH them? If they are intercepting zergs, other guilds or not, you can go and take points. Gather a point capturing group and go cap points while the GvGers deal with the other zergs/GvGers? If the enemy zerg is occupied, they aren’t capping points, or defending, making it easier for your group to capture them. It seems that in general you are upset, not about server ques, but that others aren’t playing how you expect them to. Go get a commander tag, and organize WITH the GvGers and go do what you have fun doing. And in the end everyone wins.

Oh for crying out loud will you ppl learn to read…

The point is they won’t try to intercept any zerg at all. In fact if you so much as approach the sacred zone where GvG is “hosted” you will swiftly be told to go away and mind your own business. Woe to anyone who would drop a meteor in the middle of it… As if the enemy being a hitable target with capping potential was not “my business” in that context.

I bolded the part wherein the confusion lies. You don’t mind how people play how they want as long as they play for the score. It’s a major contradiction. You’re saying (my intreptation) that you can do whatever, BUT it must be according to how you believe it should be done.

Also as far as guilds telling you off, it may have been your approach. Based on this thread, I can only assume it came across as hostile. Something along the lines of “If you aren’t going to cap points, then take your GvG elsewhere.” I would suggest, again, maybe working with them instead of against them. Maybe something like “Hey, I get you are doing your GvG thing, and thats fine, but would you consider also running zerg interferance when you are finished? It would really help our server out and maybe we can win this one.” Out of the larger guilds I’ve encountered, the leaders (who would likely be heading up such events anyway) aren’t general kittens, and are actually very reasonable people who might respond in kind.

Well, to retake my hockey game analogy, as long as you play the puck and ultimately help it get closer to the goal in a respectful way I don’t mind if you choose to escort Dolyak, repair stuff, zerg, roam or whatever new innovative, but in line with the spirit of the game, way you think of. It’s when the number of ppl who refuse to play the puck become so great that I’m starting to feel like the game is being hijacked.

So large scale battles as a guild, vs another guild, is not in the spirit of WvW? But zerging to a point, capping it, zerging to the next point, capping it, ad infinitfum, while an enemy zerg (or 2) follow behind and retake those same points is? While I can see why you would be frustrated while a GvG is going on and messing up the map que, you have to remember that the same thing is happening on the opposing server. If there is a guild fielding say 100 people for GvG, that leaves 50 others to do whatever. Same with the opposing server, if they are fielding 100 GvGers, then they only have 50 to do whatever. Why not take advantage of it? Theres a much smaller chance of running into a large zerg, so you can quietly and quickly take multiple camps/towers/etc. while the GvG is going on. Then when it’s finished, people come back on and Hey!! you already have half the map claimed! And now you can rain hurt upon the enemy.

Don’t forget there is a 3rd server that can enter the BL and they have a perfecly free queue to fill and zerg down everything while the core WvW players are trying to get in to defend. Which is what happened in the case of FA.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Are your actions aimed at helping increase your world score? You have your answer.

[/quote]

Yes, and it would appear that GvG in a BL map, while the others are doing stuff isn’t really an issue, as the others are helping increase the world score. And the GvGers are temporary, so it’s a minor set back, but nothing that I would consider game breaking, or should be stopped.

displayname.8315:

Don’t forget there is a 3rd server that can enter the BL and they have a perfecly free queue to fill and zerg down everything while the core WvW players are trying to get in to defend. Which is what happened in the case of FA.

True, but thats the nature of the game. Just like large zergs coming on in odd hours of the night, when WvW population is low and capping everything with little to no opposition. Yes it happens. I’ve seen a whole map controlled by our side, change literally over night. But one could argue that such tactics should be stopped because it’s not fair because there was no one to defend.

In the end I don’t see it as a major issue. More of a minor annoyance, that can easily be reversed with a little coordination and effort.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Are your actions aimed at helping increase your world score? You have your answer.

Sigh. We will never be able to resolve this argument. Let me reiterate that WvW is a sandbox, and though it doesn’t seem right, you can’t tell guilds GvGing in their BL or looking for fights to stop because the server hivemind is made up of many differing beliefs and differing perceptions of what is and isn’t fun or just. While I’m totally down to help out with PPT sometimes, as my guild is, I personally don’t really care whether or not my server wins. I care more about having fun. And if fun to me is sitting around watching other guilds GvG or being in a GvG myself, then you have no right to tell me that I should stop having fun. If the queues are getting in the way of your fun in regards to working towards sieging, then thats tough luck. Queues can easily get in the way of me running with my guild or keep me from spectating GvGs or doing what I think is fun too, and thats fair.

But WvW is too open in its possibiliities, choices, and options that one person or group of person cannot decide what is universally right or wrong in a sandbox setting. An exception to that is spying and griefing, and players do what they can to minimize that, like verify server TS permissions and whatnot.

pdavis.8031:

Yes, and it would appear that GvG in a BL map, while the others are doing stuff isn’t really an issue, as the others are helping increase the world score. And the GvGers are temporary, so it’s a minor set back, but nothing that I would consider game breaking, or should be stopped.

I’m sorry but people who play GvG have no intentions of increasing the world score. They couldn’t care less about it. Many are quite vocal, and proud, about it actually.

Beside, what you say doesn’t make a lot of sense. GvG not being an issue because “others” do the job you won’t is plain nonsensical. If 2 servers bring 20 people plus friends + random spectators the third server has that BL served on a plate and any possible reinforcements are being given the middle finger.

I’m not saying it’s an issue all the time, but it has and if the trend grows, it will again. Denial is not a solution.

It isn’t useful to this discussion to draw any sort of analogy between a map being zerged with no opposition due to off-hours nightcapping to a map being zerged when there are potential defenders during prime hours. Player expectations are different in each case due to convention and moreover players have been arguing that there be a solution to night-capping.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

pdavis.8031:

Yes, and it would appear that GvG in a BL map, while the others are doing stuff isn’t really an issue, as the others are helping increase the world score. And the GvGers are temporary, so it’s a minor set back, but nothing that I would consider game breaking, or should be stopped.

I’m sorry but people who play GvG have no intentions of increasing the world score. They couldn’t care less about it. Many are quite vocal, and proud, about it actually.

Beside, what you say doesn’t make a lot of sense. GvG not being an issue because “others” do the job you won’t is plain nonsensical. If 2 servers bring 20 people plus friends + random spectators the third server has that BL served on a plate and any possible reinforcements are being given the middle finger.

I’m not saying it’s an issue all the time, but it has and if the trend grows, it will again. Denial is not a solution.

So my argument is nonsensical? How? If you have a group of people, and say 20% are not participating in an activity, and some feel that they should, there is still 80% of the group willing to participate. The job is still getting done. Does it make it more difficult for the 80%? Sure. Can it still be done? Of course. Also throw in another group who sole function is to destroy what the 80% is working on does make it harder. But that means the 80% needs to change its strategy to compensate. Thus the 20% don’t really matter because they have no desire to participate. It’s similar to having to carry a semi AFK bearbow ranger in blues and greens in Arah. They are pretty much useless. You can still do the full dungeon, but it’s going to be a bit harder. (of course this is not considering the kick ability)

pdavis.8031:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

pdavis.8031:

Yes, and it would appear that GvG in a BL map, while the others are doing stuff isn’t really an issue, as the others are helping increase the world score. And the GvGers are temporary, so it’s a minor set back, but nothing that I would consider game breaking, or should be stopped.

I’m sorry but people who play GvG have no intentions of increasing the world score. They couldn’t care less about it. Many are quite vocal, and proud, about it actually.

Beside, what you say doesn’t make a lot of sense. GvG not being an issue because “others” do the job you won’t is plain nonsensical. If 2 servers bring 20 people plus friends + random spectators the third server has that BL served on a plate and any possible reinforcements are being given the middle finger.

I’m not saying it’s an issue all the time, but it has and if the trend grows, it will again. Denial is not a solution.

So my argument is nonsensical? How? If you have a group of people, and say 20% are not participating in an activity, and some feel that they should, there is still 80% of the group willing to participate. The job is still getting done. Does it make it more difficult for the 80%? Sure. Can it still be done? Of course. Also throw in another group who sole function is to destroy what the 80% is working on does make it harder. But that means the 80% needs to change its strategy to compensate. Thus the 20% don’t really matter because they have no desire to participate. It’s similar to having to carry a semi AFK bearbow ranger in blues and greens in Arah. They are pretty much useless. You can still do the full dungeon, but it’s going to be a bit harder. (of course this is not considering the kick ability)

Yes it is nonsensical. From the go you voluntarily remove yourself from the war efforts and pretend it has no significant impact for others. It’s absurd. It has an impact and it can get much higher than 20% some times. But even if we do leave it at 20% the idea remain unchanged. Claiming, or implying, it changes nothing is pure nonsense. Math 101 disagree with you a lot.

Look, it’s one thing to say you will GvG no matter what, but it’s quite another to try and rationalize the thing the way you do to feel better about it. All I ask is you use your head, and heart, when you want to organize these events.

As a side note, wouldn’t it be FAR preferable to all transfer to very low pop servers instead of shoehorning yourselves into a T2 environments? The probability of disturbing WvW activities would be FAR less no? My 2 cents.

displayname.8315:

pdavis.8031:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

pdavis.8031:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Wait, I’m confused. You don’t mind that people are playing how they want, you don’t mind they are having fun, but their way of having fun is interfering with your fun and would like them to take it elsewhere because of queing issues? I’m just trying to understand your point…

Is it something in the water?

I don’t mind them playing how the hell they want as long as they play for the kitten puck (war score). What is so kitten confusing about it that it has to be told and retold in every possible ways?

However I would say that GvG even in BLs would actually be helpful. They are specially quipped and trained to deal with zergs. So instead why not work WITH them? If they are intercepting zergs, other guilds or not, you can go and take points. Gather a point capturing group and go cap points while the GvGers deal with the other zergs/GvGers? If the enemy zerg is occupied, they aren’t capping points, or defending, making it easier for your group to capture them. It seems that in general you are upset, not about server ques, but that others aren’t playing how you expect them to. Go get a commander tag, and organize WITH the GvGers and go do what you have fun doing. And in the end everyone wins.

Oh for crying out loud will you ppl learn to read…

The point is they won’t try to intercept any zerg at all. In fact if you so much as approach the sacred zone where GvG is “hosted” you will swiftly be told to go away and mind your own business. Woe to anyone who would drop a meteor in the middle of it… As if the enemy being a hitable target with capping potential was not “my business” in that context.

I bolded the part wherein the confusion lies. You don’t mind how people play how they want as long as they play for the score. It’s a major contradiction. You’re saying (my intreptation) that you can do whatever, BUT it must be according to how you believe it should be done.

Also as far as guilds telling you off, it may have been your approach. Based on this thread, I can only assume it came across as hostile. Something along the lines of “If you aren’t going to cap points, then take your GvG elsewhere.” I would suggest, again, maybe working with them instead of against them. Maybe something like “Hey, I get you are doing your GvG thing, and thats fine, but would you consider also running zerg interferance when you are finished? It would really help our server out and maybe we can win this one.” Out of the larger guilds I’ve encountered, the leaders (who would likely be heading up such events anyway) aren’t general kittens, and are actually very reasonable people who might respond in kind.

Well, to retake my hockey game analogy, as long as you play the puck and ultimately help it get closer to the goal in a respectful way I don’t mind if you choose to escort Dolyak, repair stuff, zerg, roam or whatever new innovative, but in line with the spirit of the game, way you think of. It’s when the number of ppl who refuse to play the puck become so great that I’m starting to feel like the game is being hijacked.

So large scale battles as a guild, vs another guild, is not in the spirit of WvW? But zerging to a point, capping it, zerging to the next point, capping it, ad infinitfum, while an enemy zerg (or 2) follow behind and retake those same points is? While I can see why you would be frustrated while a GvG is going on and messing up the map que, you have to remember that the same thing is happening on the opposing server. If there is a guild fielding say 100 people for GvG, that leaves 50 others to do whatever. Same with the opposing server, if they are fielding 100 GvGers, then they only have 50 to do whatever. Why not take advantage of it? Theres a much smaller chance of running into a large zerg, so you can quietly and quickly take multiple camps/towers/etc. while the GvG is going on. Then when it’s finished, people come back on and Hey!! you already have half the map claimed! And now you can rain hurt upon the enemy.

Don’t forget there is a 3rd server that can enter the BL and they have a perfecly free queue to fill and zerg down everything while the core WvW players are trying to get in to defend. Which is what happened in the case of FA.

You act like GvG’s happen all the time, and last for 4 hours each. The amount of time it takes to do a GvG and the amount of spots that guild takes up, is really an incredibly minuscule issue to complain about. Especially when you take into account everything a GvG guild does when they aren’t GvGing, it makes up for whatever losses you have when they are.

warriorjrd.8695:

You act like GvG’s happen all the time, and last for 4 hours each.

And you’re not in NA T2.

As a brief aside to some comments I saw earlier: It only takes a handful of dedicated trolls to ruin a gvg. I know, because a few gvgs I’ve been in have been targets. A large group that was bent on interrupting a gvg? kitten, I don’t care how much posturing anybody does or how good they think their guild is, ya’ll just better relocate because the fight isn’t going to happen at its current local. Besides, it’s not the red trolls you have to worry about; it’s the green ones. And I’ve yet to see even the best skill groups wipe people on their own server. That would be kitten ed impressive, though.

displayname.8315:

Don’t forget there is a 3rd server that can enter the BL and they have a perfecly free queue to fill and zerg down everything while the core WvW players are trying to get in to defend. Which is what happened in the case of FA.[/quote]

warriorjrd.8695:

You act like GvG’s happen all the time, and last for 4 hours each. The amount of time it takes to do a GvG and the amount of spots that guild takes up, is really an incredibly minuscule issue to complain about. Especially when you take into account everything a GvG guild does when they aren’t GvGing, it makes up for whatever losses you have when they are.

I like your arguments good PvF. I will say that for some very competitive servers losing a waypointed keep can effect you for hours or even days to come. Servers will continue to focus flip keeps they know are not fortified/seiged/waypointed and thus will not be defended.

If you are really worried about the war score lost over an hour or two during the week then your sever is already going to lose.

@Sirbeaumerdier

I never stated it doesn’t have an impact. In fact I’ve shown it DOES have an impact. Also I never said I do GvG. And if you have a portion of the group unwilling to participate, the only thing they do is take up space so you cannot consider them in any of the “war efforts”. You can effectivly remove them from any calculations/strategies because they are null. If you have 100 people, and 20 people are not invloved, you effectily have 80 people to work with, and must plan accordingly.

I’m not trying to rationalize GvGers in BLs. I am trying to point out that there are ways to work around the GvGers, and with the GvGers, without enforcing or prefering one playstyle over another. I am trying to offer solutions to a percieved problem.

geekanerd.4123:

As a brief aside to some comments I saw earlier: It only takes a handful of dedicated trolls to ruin a gvg. I know, because a few gvgs I’ve been in have been targets. A large group that was bent on interrupting a gvg? kitten, I don’t care how much posturing anybody does or how good they think their guild is, ya’ll just better relocate because the fight isn’t going to happen at its current local. Besides, it’s not the red trolls you have to worry about; it’s the green ones. And I’ve yet to see even the best skill groups wipe people on their own server. That would be kitten ed impressive, though.

That was my point too. Half the people wouldn’t even be able to lay a finger on their rebellious “allies”. Still, me saying the things I’ve said wasn’t meant as a threat, but as a way to forcefully help some to get their head out of the @$$.

Okay this thread is getting a little out of hand. At first the OP was nice and polite, but now hes gotten quite agressive about this. Plus he ignored my last post on this thread that frames this situation quite nicely.

But whatever, people don’t like their beliefs to be argued with. Anyway OP, this thread will accomplish nothing because nothing you ever say or do will be enough to sway those like myself that are in favor of GvGs.