Guild Wars 2

I am extremely hardcore. I spend 90% of my GW2 time in WvW. I give no kittens about tiers, but I like having good people to talk to and kill things with.

Hum personally I been to almost every tier, T1 may have some better tactics and command but these tactics find themselves working more often due to the opposite side suffering server lag + bad computer lag than you would see if you employed the same tactics in a lower tier. Lower tier don’t mean more skill either, I seen plenty of horrible players in every tier I went, on the other hand I seen some seriously good players on all of them as well.

Yet the current WvW mentality = Bigger zerg = more skill.

Commander = Super skilled player who knows everything.

Pwning in the huge zerg = I pwn.

Getting pwn in said zerg = My people suck, I should go to the enemy side.

When in reality there is a tier for everyone, if you want to feel awesome by being part of a lag fest zerg then go for it, if you want an epic fight between equally competitive player go for it. Most commander are people who pve a lot and thus farmed the gold for the tab of flipped the market enough to get said tab. Some are really good, some are worse than the n00bs that follow them in hopes of easy karma, exp and gold. In the end, you will never find a point of balance as a group of 10 people with tactically placed siege weapons can wipe a group of 60 player who are still building their siege or got no siege at all.

Besetment.9187:

Littlefeather.8623:

My old Gorilla 5 man team is no more before we left DH, but I had 2 warriors, 1 Engi, 1 Elem, and me Tanky Guard. 5 RE running around, aside from our RE zerg. I miss those guys, so no, I wouldnt even know who to pick If I did have to make a 5 man team again.

I could solo any of your melee though, that I could guarantee without any doubt. Unless they kite me like little girls lol. But as a commander, and for PPT no I dont think in 5 man team terms atm.

Ehhh, talk is cheap. You don’t think about 5 man teams anymore because you are currently matched up with servers that will send 20+ people to take a supply camp if they want it.

Fighting heavily outnumbered in any tier that I’ve played in ranged from challenging to impossible as a result of downed state/rally mechanics and skill redundancy. This is predicated on the assumption that the people you are fighting are in any way competent.

Every tier I’ve played in had extremely competent players. I still remember the names from the servers I’ve played on and against like Grundlebad and the KT guys on SBI, Noice, Tzenjin and the FTF guys on Ehmry Bay, The Grindhouse guys and girls on Ehmry Bay, Oozo and the AD guys on Devonas, Spectrix from Yaks Bend (whose great failing is that he can’t be plugged into the game 24 hours a day, 7 days a week).

Theres so many I can’t name them all. But if you don’t pay attention, its easy to miss the people that make a difference, or the people who still put up a fight even though the numbers disparity means they can never win.

Honestly, its your loss if you think you can’t learn something from people like that, even if they aren’t currently playing in tiers 1 to 3.

There are plenty of 5 man havoc teams on Kaineng. 5v5, 10v10, 20v20 happens all the time here. Same goes for Mag, Yak, DB, TC and FA. Some people loves this, but it aren’t for everyone. Some people prefer to be a part of a much bigger zerg. The skills and organization it takes are totally different.

Winning a 60vs60 fight is not any easier than winning a 5vs5 fight. It is just different. And that’s a whole section of game play that’s missing in lower tiers. They can rarely get 60 guys together and get 60 enemies together to experience these mega sized battles.

As someone on T1 NA spending 90% of my game time in WvW, I can’t believe this question is even being asked. Our WvW is just a massive pile of zergs. I can only imagine how much more individual player skill must be involved in the fights in the lower tiers. I am so jealous of how they must have regular 5v5s to 10v10s. I’d have transferred already if there were free transfers, but whenever I check every NA server is the same population as mine.

Egos:

moar ~pro than u

Newsflash: for those of you who transferred on high months ago, our servers are worlds different. People replaced you. Dub vee dub went on. And our sanity thanks us sans certain people. Now we munch on the servers that went through their genocides more recently than ours did. Ouroboros cycle.

And we may or may not eat popcorn as we watch Kaineng inch down. :]

higher tier server WvW is just zerging. lower wvw rank server is better because less zergs running around

placeboing.3896:

As someone on T1 NA spending 90% of my game time in WvW, I can’t believe this question is even being asked. Our WvW is just a massive pile of zergs. I can only imagine how much more individual player skill must be involved in the fights in the lower tiers. I am so jealous of how they must have regular 5v5s to 10v10s. I’d have transferred already if there were free transfers, but whenever I check every NA server is the same population as mine.

I am sure JQ have many havoc teams. Why not join one?

melodey.4652:

Egos:

moar ~pro than u

Newsflash: for those of you who transferred on high months ago, our servers are worlds different. People replaced you. Dub vee dub went on. And our sanity thanks us sans certain people. Now we munch on the servers that went through their genocides more recently than ours did. Ouroboros cycle.

And we may or may not eat popcorn as we watch Kaineng inch down. :]

The ironic part is, those guys that you hate on Kaineng are now in tier 1 on a different server. So your so-called revenge will never be realized.

CHIPS.6018:

You only get these kind of fights, organization, teamwork and tactics at higher tiers.

Apparently, you don’t fight Arborstone in EU T8. They come until the queue is full then you wipe them with less than half their guys. The good thing is that they come back again and again giving you tons of loot. The bad is that they don’t reward you much WXP…

chips your definitions of fun is not the same as everybody’s

so lower tiers cant coordinate and have no strategics invaled in what they do?
given that lower tiers normaly dont have the coverage(and that whats holding back most servers) that many of high tier servers have.
if its epic fights you want then a small groupe wiping a much larger force is much more epic and intense then 2 big forces standing face to face with huge skill lag.
its much of the same tactic thats used both places in general

CHIPS.6018:

Jimmy JimBob.2801:

I would say I play 90% in wvw. I’ve been on Gunnars since the start and I will probably always be on Gunnars. I’ve seen us go from T2 to T8, back to T5 and now back in T8.

In this time I saw the biggest fights in T6 against AM & FR where we had two 70 man zergs fighting over our property – no fun at all. It was laggy and definitely the opposite of epic and I hope I never encounter those kind of fights again.
Now in the lower tiers we can have 40 vs 40 or 20 vs 40 or 10 vs 20 or any kind of numbers and its fantastic. We have great guilds who have taken on and beaten the high tier guilds that came to RoS. The only guild that really gave us consistent problems were VoTF in all honesty.
Imho the only difference between the higher tier hardcore guilds and the lower tier hardcore guilds is the fact that higher tiers have fighting on all 3 maps for a much larger proportion of the time and the higher tier guilds contain alot more active members. Where our guilds field 15-25 on a night they will field 25-40.
That’s my experience.

That fight wasn’t fun for you because it was your 40 men vs 70 enemies and 70 enemies. Of course it aren’t fun! It wasn’t even a fair fight.

This doesn’t mean you don’t like large scale battle though. I am sure if your server could provide 70 manpower that night, it probably would be one of the more memorable fights ever.

You misunderstand. We could have provided a 70 man group to counter it if we got everyone together. But we don’t like it.

Why would I want to subject myself to lag both on screen and with skills and spending 5 minutes hiding in a corner until I get out of combat to heal myself because my healing skill won’t activate. Even with us only being a few I still couldn’t do anything.
It has absolutely othing to do with competitiveness. We’ve beaten much bigger numbers before and I’m sure we will do again. I also have no dislike of running into a fight I have no hope of winning – infact it’s something I do regularly.

Fror.2163:

CHIPS.6018:

You only get these kind of fights, organization, teamwork and tactics at higher tiers.

Apparently, you don’t fight Arborstone in EU T8. They come until the queue is full then you wipe them with less than half their guys. The good thing is that they come back again and again giving you tons of loot. The bad is that they don’t reward you much WXP…

chips you could not be more wrong
(but yes theres also servers that go all peeps avaliable to 1 place if they cant conquer with equal numbers, but thats also a tactic :/ ).

I’m in tier 3 and I’ve hopped down to FC and DR at different points to get a change of pace. The meta and average player skill in the lower tiers seemed ridiculously far behind the upper tiers. I lost count of how many terrible glass d/d thieves I killed. Glass guardians. Glass everything. It was bad enough that I’d get mad if I lost a 1v3 because I honestly expected to win every one.

I had to go back to Tier 3 after a week each time because a lot more of the players there actually have a clue of what they are doing.

CHIPS.6018:

melodey.4652:

Egos:

moar ~pro than u

Newsflash: for those of you who transferred on high months ago, our servers are worlds different. People replaced you. Dub vee dub went on. And our sanity thanks us sans certain people. Now we munch on the servers that went through their genocides more recently than ours did. Ouroboros cycle.

And we may or may not eat popcorn as we watch Kaineng inch down. :]

The ironic part is, those guys that you hate on Kaineng are now in tier 1 on a different server. So your so-called revenge will never be realized.

Nope. They’re busy making transparent little recruitment threads.

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Jokes on you

Anyone who has commander in their signature or has the blue Dorito doesn’t have speaking privileges on under 10 matter

Jscull.2514:

Anyone who has commander in their signature or has the blue Dorito doesn’t have speaking privileges on under 10 matter

I find you… amusing very amusing please continue \popcorn

I can think of a number of reasons to stay in a low tier. Bad computer. Not wanting to deal with super zergs of more than 50 people.

If the lag is your only legitamite (Speeeeling) reasoning, than thats no the best reasoning.

I just prefer
the less facelessness of lower teirs on nsp we all know each other in wvw

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Interesting. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Actually, there’s an entire thread about server choice from PAXA. Tier 8 is where they are moving the small group guilds who just want to kill each other and not watch score.

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

Jscull.2514:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

Well keep pwning “organized” T8 groups like the ones in your PAXA video, if thats your claim to fame.

Jscull.2514:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

In that case your aim is a fight club. WvW aren’t really your thing. As such, you are not actually a target audience of this thread.

Littlefeather.8623:

Jscull.2514:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

Well keep pwning “organized” T8 groups like the ones in your PAXA video, if thats your claim to fame.

That was from t7. Garbage Zerg tier. No one runs less than 10 there because they get smoked if they do.

Oh, we know those guys will beat us, so let’s just group up the 15 people on this map and chase them around and talk kitten via forums when we kill 2-3 of them. Lol you guys are a riot!

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

In that case your aim is a fight club. WvW aren’t really your thing. As such, you are not actually a target audience of this thread.

Bad choice chips paxa thinks fight clubs are carebear activities as well as duels lol lol lol paxa refuses to face anyone in an organized 5v5 people have tried so many times but they refuse and kitten

Jscull.2514:

Littlefeather.8623:

Jscull.2514:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

Well keep pwning “organized” T8 groups like the ones in your PAXA video, if thats your claim to fame.

That was from t7. Garbage Zerg tier. No one runs less than 10 there because they get smoked if they do.

Oh, we know those guys will beat us, so let’s just group up the 15 people on this map and chase them around and talk kitten via forums when we kill 2-3 of them. Lol you guys are a riot!

man up and fight super outnumbered all the time like aon in t2

Yea PAXA didnt even want to try to Fight Club against RE when we hosted it for the match, they showed up and when RE wanted to fight them they just ran off and took supply camps or something lol.

Lol, y’all are great. There was like 80 people at that “RE fight club”. We brought like 6-7 guys and wiped 20+ people 3/4x in a row. The next day there was 2 full forum pages of QQ to those guys that tried to ruin fight club. Didn’t know it took 2 full pages to express how little effectiveness we had.

You mean you killed people who were afk and didn’t fight back gj man

Had a ball doing it to carebears who will sit around in RL for 2-3 hours watching bunker builds go at it. Had a BALL!

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

In that case your aim is a fight club. WvW aren’t really your thing. As such, you are not actually a target audience of this thread.

Some people enjoy seeing what they personally contribute to a fight. In a 5v5 I know exactly what I did well that allowed us to win, or what I did poorly that made us lose.

When you are running with 30 people though, how do you really tell? If you replaced one of those 30 with an uplevel, would you instantly do poorly? Would the same be true in a 5v5?

Yes, different types of fights appeal to different people. Also, your assessment that WvW is not really the thing for small scale roamers isn’t quite correct. You can enjoy the thrill of a larger map that is more oriented towards PvP rather than a smaller map that is oriented towards sitting in a circle. If you enter sPvP you are forced to actually sit in circles, whereas in WvW you are free to do whatever you want.

Hope this clears some things up.

Idc how anyone wvws as long as they don’t greif jus keep your kitten to yourself and let others play the way they enjoy because there isn’t just one meta

frostshade.3617
You mean you killed people who were afk and didn’t fight back gj man

commander frostseir(sylvari,guardian) commander frostetics(norn,ele)
Os guild
about 20 minutes ago

EditQuoteDeleteInfractReportPermalink Hard core WvWers tier 4 & below.in World vs World
Posted by: Jscull.2514

Jscull.2514
Had a ball doing it to carebears who will sit around in RL for 2-3 hours watching bunker builds go at it. Had a BALL!

PAXA -GM
(Server Mercenaries for HIRE)
Aroneouss- Guardian
about 18 minutes ago

Yea, there was a make shift ring of rams for the event for who wanted to fight…its setup like that for a reason. So people like you wont accidently hit the viewers, but I guess you missed the memo, or have no clue on how spectator sports control the show.

Littlefeather.8623:

frostshade.3617
You mean you killed people who were afk and didn’t fight back gj man

commander frostseir(sylvari,guardian) commander frostetics(norn,ele)
Os guild
about 20 minutes ago

EditQuoteDeleteInfractReportPermalink Hard core WvWers tier 4 & below.in World vs World
Posted by: Jscull.2514

Jscull.2514
Had a ball doing it to carebears who will sit around in RL for 2-3 hours watching bunker builds go at it. Had a BALL!

PAXA -GM
(Server Mercenaries for HIRE)
Aroneouss- Guardian
about 18 minutes ago

Yea, there was a make shift ring of rams for the event for who wanted to fight…its setup like that for a reason. So people like you wont accidently hit the viewers, but I guess you missed the memo, or have no clue on how spectator sports control the show.

You have to be absolutely blind or oblivious…..Dude we did it on purpose because sitting around watching BUNKER / GLASS builds fight for days is just plain dumb. Once again, over your carebear vision.

Edit: We dont play this game to make internet friends or to “love one another”….We play this game to kill people with red names. Sorry we are not all running for governor in my guild…..

So, there are basically four playstyles at the moment (the numbers are just rough guidelines).

1) Solo/Duo
2) Small Group (4-8)
3) Squad (10-15)
4) Zerg

Those who engage in activity 1 require good personal skill. However, they also typically run a build that is unbalanced for 1v1s to give them an advantage. That might be high mobility, high stealth, or a heavy bunker build.

Those who engage in activity 2 also require good personal skill. You will still find people who run the OP 1v1 builds but you will also find people who run more balanced builds for group synergy.

Those who engage in activity 3 are zerg-busters. They are the ones who beat zergs two to three times their size regularly. There is not as much need for personal skill. They are mostly running balanced builds for group synergy. Communication, coordinating blast fields, movement, and positioning are more important than clutch counter moves.

If you take people with equal skillsets: 3 beats 2 and 2 beats 1, obviously.

1 will call 2 zergers.
2 will call 3 zergers.
3 will call 4 zergers.

People who play style 3 also often play style 1 and style 2. People who play style 1 and style 2 can’t play style 3 due to lack of numbers. Since I play styles 1 through 3, I can sympathize with 5mans who complain about organized 10mans. But, when I’m running with 10-15 we are not looking to kill 5mans, we are looking to kill 20-40. And they aren’t just PUGs. We are looking to kill guild groups of that size (which is something no 5man is going to do).

With respect to people who play style 4? Very very few of them EVER play styles 1-3, so I don’t really care about them.

To be considered an individually skilled player you have to play styles 1 and 2. To be a well-rounded player you need to play styles 1-3. I’m saying well-rounded since you can’t really do split force pincer/flanking movements or get the most out of blast combos unless you are running with more than 10.

To say there is no “hardcore” WvW below tier 4 is to say Kaineng isn’t a hardcore WvW server up until the point of transfer madness, and I will bet the original Kain’s would disagree. It isn’t about holding alliegence to a server, but to the community on that server, something transfer happy people seem to lack. Players that stay with a server through the highs and lows, those players are “hardcore”.
On a super fun side note, how was that rise to T1…. oh sorry, too soon?

Oozo.7856:

So, there are basically four playstyles at the moment (the numbers are just rough guidelines).
…

This is by far the most accurate assessment of the WvW population I have seen. Excellent post.

Xirin.8593:

Oozo.7856:

So, there are basically four playstyles at the moment (the numbers are just rough guidelines).
…

This is by far the most accurate assessment of the WvW population I have seen. Excellent post.

Well, it’s still biased by my own playstyle. I’m sure the organized guilds that run 20-30 wouldn’t want to be lumped in with category 4. However, I’ve watched a lot of their movies and I see quite a lot of mouse-clicking and not utilizing all of their abilities. If they went into a 5v5 against good players doing that they would get destroyed.

That’s not to say that there aren’t individually skilled players that run in guild groups that size, but I’m getting the sense that it’s rare.

Ill be a troll here. Join Dragonbrand if your community is not making you happy. Don’t really care if you PvE or WvW. The community has server raffles, gives out a lot of prizes and free legendaries out to players on the server every month. There are dance parties, guild keg brawls, private arenas for theory crafting or GvG. Organized server forums and Teamspeak. Yes, we are dominating Tier 2 and yes the few transfer guilds are simply complimenting the dominance Dragonbrand showed in T3 without any of us being there.

Don’t take my word for it, drop by our public Teamspeak or guest on our server for a few days.

Oozo.7856:

However, I’ve watched a lot of their movies and I see quite a lot of mouse-clicking and not utilizing all of their abilities.

*eye twitch

I have seen what you speak of, sir. It is the stuff of nightmares.

Gab Superstar.4059:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

In that case your aim is a fight club. WvW aren’t really your thing. As such, you are not actually a target audience of this thread.

Some people enjoy seeing what they personally contribute to a fight. In a 5v5 I know exactly what I did well that allowed us to win, or what I did poorly that made us lose.

When you are running with 30 people though, how do you really tell? If you replaced one of those 30 with an uplevel, would you instantly do poorly? Would the same be true in a 5v5?

Yes, different types of fights appeal to different people. Also, your assessment that WvW is not really the thing for small scale roamers isn’t quite correct. You can enjoy the thrill of a larger map that is more oriented towards PvP rather than a smaller map that is oriented towards sitting in a circle. If you enter sPvP you are forced to actually sit in circles, whereas in WvW you are free to do whatever you want.

Hope this clears some things up.

Its just different.

In 5v5, you say things like “My water made a huge difference.” or “My Hundred Blades made a huge difference.”

In 60v60, you say things like “That stacked healing really saved our whole zerg there.” and “That guy who called out that ambush on Teamspeak really saved everyone.”

As for the 2nd point, I think WvW is about server points, holding keeps and towers, zerg fights, etc. Jscull said that he doesn’t care about server points, doesn’t care about holding keeps and towers, and doesn’t care about zerg fights. So I don’t think he is actually a WvWers. I will say he is doing a fight club inside the map of WvW. It might be fun for him and many others. But it aren’t WvW anymore.

Playing with large numbers is just different and requires a different set of skills. The biggest difference is communicative because its difficult at the best of times to get 30 individuals to behave as a single entity and you need to be conscious of what your people are doing all the time. Theres an awful lot of them.

Failure in large teams is rarely a result of an individual doing something wrong (unless they die and give away a free rally). The problems tend to be more systemic in nature and are more difficult to identify and to correct.

Individual ability is not as important because team synergy and skill redundancy can compensate for it by eliminating all individual weakness. There is a greater likelihood that you can get things like cleanse conditions, stability, projectile reflection etc on voice command so that no individual player will die as a result of same being on a long cooldown. The downside is that if individuals do not train themselves to do these things for the greater benefit of the team, its easy to lose control and you have a systemic problem to deal with.

I think you need a certain level of charisma and cachet to do this properly and it becomes an entirely different set of skills to develop. People who play in large groups need to have less idiosyncratic behaviour and expression because its confusing to people who don’t know what you mean.

There is no room for vague language/instruction and concision is vastly more important in large teams. Voice comm air time becomes a commodity that must be rationed so you communicate the most pertinent information using the least number words, otherwise your channel goes to pieces. You are sharing comms with over 30 players. It requires a more disciplined approach to speaking and deferring to others who may have important information to relay.

Large structured teams that are maintained over long periods of time will also disintegrate in a different way. All structured teams collapse over time as key players log out to do other things. In larger teams it is possible for an effective fighting force to still function when all of its originating members have left, but as alts and new players replace the roles of those logging out, it becomes necessary to train as you play, pretty much constantly, with a mind to instilling certain sets of desirable behaviours.

Large teams are also expected to do more than fight but also to control territory (which gives your team more favourable ground to fight on). Controlling territory requires a whole meta strategic way of thinking that is really insane if you are not used to it. For instance, you will have to train yourself to look at the map more than whats going on your screen, to read map movement of your opponents and corroborating it with scouting information so your team never gets blindsided. Players as well as commanders need to learn this because they are necessary for corroborating information. All large scale fights end in landslides and thats just the way the mechanics of it stack up. You get blindsided once, your whole team wipes in seconds so its not very forgiving if you make mistakes.

If you haven’t tried it before Oozo, you should try running a 50 man. At times it can melt your brain at the number of things you need to keep track of. It involves alot of autorunning and flicking between map, screen, your own team (to spot bad behaviour from becoming bad habit) at the same time that people are screaming incomprehensible words about a zerg incoming from…somewhere. You need a alot of voice channel discipline and a chat relay or the system breaks down very easily.

Rather than your team collapsing entirely when a few key players log off, you can actually still function but sometimes must transition into a different role or play a different game, often with different people. Its not always easy.

It is easy to ball up 30 dudes on a commander icon, say follow the leader and run with the blue chip to your death. But the number of players is really irrelevant in such situations. Its easy to do anything without a requirement that you do it well. If you screw up in a small man, few people are around to see it and criticize it. You arent expected to control territory and gaining or losing territory does not matter. You make one big mistake in a large team and you get crucified for it by your own allies.

Split play in tier 4 and 5 was more viable than when my server got into tier 3. It is an aspect of the large scale game I really miss.

CHIPS.6018:

Gab Superstar.4059:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

In that case your aim is a fight club. WvW aren’t really your thing. As such, you are not actually a target audience of this thread.

Some people enjoy seeing what they personally contribute to a fight. In a 5v5 I know exactly what I did well that allowed us to win, or what I did poorly that made us lose.

When you are running with 30 people though, how do you really tell? If you replaced one of those 30 with an uplevel, would you instantly do poorly? Would the same be true in a 5v5?

Yes, different types of fights appeal to different people. Also, your assessment that WvW is not really the thing for small scale roamers isn’t quite correct. You can enjoy the thrill of a larger map that is more oriented towards PvP rather than a smaller map that is oriented towards sitting in a circle. If you enter sPvP you are forced to actually sit in circles, whereas in WvW you are free to do whatever you want.

Hope this clears some things up.

Its just different.

In 5v5, you say things like “My water made a huge difference.” or “My Hundred Blades made a huge difference.”

In 60v60, you say things like “That stacked healing really saved our whole zerg there.” and “That guy who called out that ambush on Teamspeak really saved everyone.”

As for the 2nd point, I think WvW is about server points, holding keeps and towers, zerg fights, etc. Jscull said that he doesn’t care about server points, doesn’t care about holding keeps and towers, and doesn’t care about zerg fights. So I don’t think he is actually a WvWers. I will say he is doing a fight club inside the map of WvW. It might be fun for him and many others. But it aren’t WvW anymore.

It’s not different, all the things you mentioned happens everywhere. The difference is you can’t tell what really affected the outcome of the battle since so many people are doing so much to affect it.

He is still playing World vs World, just not according to your premises.

CHIPS.6018:

Gab Superstar.4059:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

In that case your aim is a fight club. WvW aren’t really your thing. As such, you are not actually a target audience of this thread.

Some people enjoy seeing what they personally contribute to a fight. In a 5v5 I know exactly what I did well that allowed us to win, or what I did poorly that made us lose.

When you are running with 30 people though, how do you really tell? If you replaced one of those 30 with an uplevel, would you instantly do poorly? Would the same be true in a 5v5?

Yes, different types of fights appeal to different people. Also, your assessment that WvW is not really the thing for small scale roamers isn’t quite correct. You can enjoy the thrill of a larger map that is more oriented towards PvP rather than a smaller map that is oriented towards sitting in a circle. If you enter sPvP you are forced to actually sit in circles, whereas in WvW you are free to do whatever you want.

Hope this clears some things up.

Its just different.

In 5v5, you say things like “My water made a huge difference.” or “My Hundred Blades made a huge difference.”

In 60v60, you say things like “That stacked healing really saved our whole zerg there.” and “That guy who called out that ambush on Teamspeak really saved everyone.”

As for the 2nd point, I think WvW is about server points, holding keeps and towers, zerg fights, etc. Jscull said that he doesn’t care about server points, doesn’t care about holding keeps and towers, and doesn’t care about zerg fights. So I don’t think he is actually a WvWers. I will say he is doing a fight club inside the map of WvW. It might be fun for him and many others. But it aren’t WvW anymore.

What does server points get you? Nothing. So really what’s the point to get points. How does a server move up, population is the answer just look at the big guild looking to move thread. Ppl are worried it will screw other servers why because of the ppl they bring will move that server. Points mean nothing in this game population is what wins and makes t1 server t1. Again points get u nothing in the end. Enlighten me tho if u think they do.

CHIPS.6018:

Gab Superstar.4059:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

In that case your aim is a fight club. WvW aren’t really your thing. As such, you are not actually a target audience of this thread.

Some people enjoy seeing what they personally contribute to a fight. In a 5v5 I know exactly what I did well that allowed us to win, or what I did poorly that made us lose.

When you are running with 30 people though, how do you really tell? If you replaced one of those 30 with an uplevel, would you instantly do poorly? Would the same be true in a 5v5?

Yes, different types of fights appeal to different people. Also, your assessment that WvW is not really the thing for small scale roamers isn’t quite correct. You can enjoy the thrill of a larger map that is more oriented towards PvP rather than a smaller map that is oriented towards sitting in a circle. If you enter sPvP you are forced to actually sit in circles, whereas in WvW you are free to do whatever you want.

Hope this clears some things up.

Its just different.

In 5v5, you say things like “My water made a huge difference.” or “My Hundred Blades made a huge difference.”

In 60v60, you say things like “That stacked healing really saved our whole zerg there.” and “That guy who called out that ambush on Teamspeak really saved everyone.”

As for the 2nd point, I think WvW is about server points, holding keeps and towers, zerg fights, etc. Jscull said that he doesn’t care about server points, doesn’t care about holding keeps and towers, and doesn’t care about zerg fights. So I don’t think he is actually a WvWers. I will say he is doing a fight club inside the map of WvW. It might be fun for him and many others. But it aren’t WvW anymore.

Bottom line is 60v60 = 120 players. Out of those 120, maybe 10 or under would actually give us competition or at least more than a minute fight. The other 110 or I’ll give you 105 players in that 120 would be smoked over, over, and over again if they fought us with 10 or less. What’s ridiculous is you go around saying that “these 60v60 are so EPIC” and think you are general Patton via gw2… When in reality none of you will ever use
Your characters like we do getting 105% out of them…. You’ll continue down the same “casual not really ever getting better at fighting in clutch moments” and talkin smack on the forums about how epic and good your Zerg lag nonslillful fighting is. And when you Zerg down a 5 man talking about how great you all are meanwhile outnumbering them by 50. Sorry, never will that be impressive.

Someone following this thread whispered me in game today asking a question regarding my post. I was in a fight club, didn’t reply, and then forgot. Please send me a message here in the forum, I will respond.

My sincere apologies.

CHIPS.6018:

Gab Superstar.4059:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

In that case your aim is a fight club. WvW aren’t really your thing. As such, you are not actually a target audience of this thread.

Some people enjoy seeing what they personally contribute to a fight. In a 5v5 I know exactly what I did well that allowed us to win, or what I did poorly that made us lose.

When you are running with 30 people though, how do you really tell? If you replaced one of those 30 with an uplevel, would you instantly do poorly? Would the same be true in a 5v5?

Yes, different types of fights appeal to different people. Also, your assessment that WvW is not really the thing for small scale roamers isn’t quite correct. You can enjoy the thrill of a larger map that is more oriented towards PvP rather than a smaller map that is oriented towards sitting in a circle. If you enter sPvP you are forced to actually sit in circles, whereas in WvW you are free to do whatever you want.

Hope this clears some things up.

Its just different.

In 5v5, you say things like “My water made a huge difference.” or “My Hundred Blades made a huge difference.”

In 60v60, you say things like “That stacked healing really saved our whole zerg there.” and “That guy who called out that ambush on Teamspeak really saved everyone.”

As for the 2nd point, I think WvW is about server points, holding keeps and towers, zerg fights, etc. Jscull said that he doesn’t care about server points, doesn’t care about holding keeps and towers, and doesn’t care about zerg fights. So I don’t think he is actually a WvWers. I will say he is doing a fight club inside the map of WvW. It might be fun for him and many others. But it aren’t WvW anymore.

Yeah, I mean… you never have to call out flanks or ambushes in the lower tiers. Ever.

It’s amazing how those blast finishers that effect a max of 5 people can save 60 people. It would be more accurate to say something like, “man stacking all 60 of us on top of each other to spread out and mitigate that AoE damage really saved us!”