Guild Wars 2

saiyr.3071:

Oozo.7856:

Well, you can man siege while eating pizza rolls in your underwear and you zergsurf while eating pizza rolls in your underwear but you can’t win a 5v5 against good players eating pizza rolls in your underwear unless they are also eating pizza rolls in their underwear.

Which has been known to happen.

Oozo, I think if you can’t 5v5 good players while eating pizza rolls you just need more practice. I mean gosh, that’s like Hardcore 101.

Jscull.2514:

Jscull.2514:

saiyr.3071:

Oozo.7856:

There weren’t very many good players in that matchup. Things were better in T5 and they are certainly better in T7. Sometimes you get matched up against dud servers with respect to finding good roamers. To take your experiences from one week and extrapolate that to conclude that all players from lower tiers are bad isn’t very smart.

We ran across plenty of bad players on Maguuma but we never extrapolated that to conclude that all players from Maguuma were bad. In fact, the rank and file PUG group on Maguuma was much much better than what Kaineng had but they made it to a higher tier than Maguuma. How do you explain that?

Oh yes, that’s right… general player skill has little to do with what tier you are playing in. It’s about numbers and coverage.

BTW, just earlier today I saw a ranger movie where on his first day of hitting L80 he was 1v3ing three people from War Machine in T1.

Tsarazi has been in more tiers than that, FWIW, but I dunno how they were back then. I don’t think the point is that higher tier = higher skill as much as lower tier doesn’t imply higher skill, which I feel like the other guy is trying to say (60 mans mashing 1/2 posts, etc). Assuming he can just beat every guild in T3 knowing little more than their names is embarrassing

Embarrassing to who? You have an “we’re above you in tier so we clearly would womp you mentality”

I invited you to our vent to listen in/chime in with 10 other guilds talking about this. I’m not biaaaatching out, I’m stepping up and inviting you.

Please point out where I assumed I could beat any t3 small man? Look at the word choice I used amigo. Said we give them a run for their money…..Keep dodging the fact that we have a bunch of true (have less than 10 guys in their guild total) small mans coming to our vent tonight to discuss an actual platform for small man roaming/fighting in t8.

You probably play mesmer right? Dodge roll, dodge roll, dodge roll. Keeeeeeeep on dodging

Haha, okay, I dislike you less now for that zinger. But no, I don’t play Mesmer. I am not dodging your invitation, I just don’t care about it. I have no intentions of leaving my server.

Thats because, 80% of what you want you are more than likely getting out of gw2 at the moment. And that is NOT mainly fighting small groups. Otherwise EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER would have been told, read, or just moved to t3 already. So what you are currently doing is most likely coming across small mans now and then, but mostly fighting smaller bib blobs of people…………………………………………………thats what we are TIRED of doing my friend. If you were tired of it and the 80% of what you want was 20%, youd move.

There are those who have a strong self-identity and then there are those who can only identify with a collective. Sheep tend to care a lot of about scoreboards and server rankings, while wolves really don’t care about that stuff and just want to kill the sheep.

T3 currently has both mega blobs, and small groups. No server in T3 has the coverage to megablob every map, so it’s usually one at a time.

Jscull.2514:

saiyr.3071:

Oozo.7856:

Well, you can man siege while eating pizza rolls in your underwear and you zergsurf while eating pizza rolls in your underwear but you can’t win a 5v5 against good players eating pizza rolls in your underwear unless they are also eating pizza rolls in their underwear.

Which has been known to happen.

Oozo, I think if you can’t 5v5 good players while eating pizza rolls you just need more practice. I mean gosh, that’s like Hardcore 101.

Jscull.2514:

Jscull.2514:

saiyr.3071:

Oozo.7856:

There weren’t very many good players in that matchup. Things were better in T5 and they are certainly better in T7. Sometimes you get matched up against dud servers with respect to finding good roamers. To take your experiences from one week and extrapolate that to conclude that all players from lower tiers are bad isn’t very smart.

We ran across plenty of bad players on Maguuma but we never extrapolated that to conclude that all players from Maguuma were bad. In fact, the rank and file PUG group on Maguuma was much much better than what Kaineng had but they made it to a higher tier than Maguuma. How do you explain that?

Oh yes, that’s right… general player skill has little to do with what tier you are playing in. It’s about numbers and coverage.

BTW, just earlier today I saw a ranger movie where on his first day of hitting L80 he was 1v3ing three people from War Machine in T1.

Tsarazi has been in more tiers than that, FWIW, but I dunno how they were back then. I don’t think the point is that higher tier = higher skill as much as lower tier doesn’t imply higher skill, which I feel like the other guy is trying to say (60 mans mashing 1/2 posts, etc). Assuming he can just beat every guild in T3 knowing little more than their names is embarrassing

Embarrassing to who? You have an “we’re above you in tier so we clearly would womp you mentality”

I invited you to our vent to listen in/chime in with 10 other guilds talking about this. I’m not biaaaatching out, I’m stepping up and inviting you.

Please point out where I assumed I could beat any t3 small man? Look at the word choice I used amigo. Said we give them a run for their money…..Keep dodging the fact that we have a bunch of true (have less than 10 guys in their guild total) small mans coming to our vent tonight to discuss an actual platform for small man roaming/fighting in t8.

You probably play mesmer right? Dodge roll, dodge roll, dodge roll. Keeeeeeeep on dodging

Haha, okay, I dislike you less now for that zinger. But no, I don’t play Mesmer. I am not dodging your invitation, I just don’t care about it. I have no intentions of leaving my server.

Thats because, 80% of what you want you are more than likely getting out of gw2 at the moment. And that is NOT mainly fighting small groups. Otherwise EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER would have been told, read, or just moved to t3 already. So what you are currently doing is most likely coming across small mans now and then, but mostly fighting smaller bib blobs of people…………………………………………………thats what we are TIRED of doing my friend. If you were tired of it and the 80% of what you want was 20%, youd move.

i don’t really know what you just said but okay

ParaldaWind.4523:

The ranking and point system is mostly a measure of population.

population is the most important thing to take away from all these arguments.

as i’ve said in other threads, the law of averages plays a role in the experienced:inexperienced ratio. out of 100 players you might have 10 to 15 highly skilled players. out of 10 players you might have 1 or 2 skilled players. people that do not understand this are destined to feel that their server is the best.

however, if there ever was an auto-balance feature that put equal amounts of people between the 4 maps for any given server matchup, the scores would be a lot more even than they are. i’m not saying that the scores would be exactly even, but the gaps seen would be much smaller than they currently are.

saiyr.3071:

Oozo.7856:

Well, you can man siege while eating pizza rolls in your underwear and you zergsurf while eating pizza rolls in your underwear but you can’t win a 5v5 against good players eating pizza rolls in your underwear unless they are also eating pizza rolls in their underwear.

Which has been known to happen.

Oozo, I think if you can’t 5v5 good players while eating pizza rolls you just need more practice. I mean gosh, that’s like Hardcore 101.

I’m going to have to confess that I’m not on that level. I’ve heard there was actually once a 5 man group that could beat any other 5 man group while eating pizza rolls with one hand, scratching their balls with the other, while driving their characters by slapping their keyboards with their kittens… but I’m pretty sure that is just a legend.

Oozo.7856:

saiyr.3071:

Oozo.7856:

Well, you can man siege while eating pizza rolls in your underwear and you zergsurf while eating pizza rolls in your underwear but you can’t win a 5v5 against good players eating pizza rolls in your underwear unless they are also eating pizza rolls in their underwear.

Which has been known to happen.

Oozo, I think if you can’t 5v5 good players while eating pizza rolls you just need more practice. I mean gosh, that’s like Hardcore 101.

I’m going to have to confess that I’m not on that level. I’ve heard there was actually once a 5 man group that could beat any other 5 man group while eating pizza rolls with one hand, scratching their balls with the other, while driving their characters by slapping their keyboards with their kitten… but I’m pretty sure that is just a legend.

Most of that is true, actually, except they played with their feet. They were Gollum.

Ungood.3054:

You have the top tiers, they would be called the varsity (lets say T 1 – 3) It is not because they better skilled, or better players, but because they put more effort into it or simply just transferred over. They play after school, every day, and work on becoming the best they can be at what they do or they just transfer over.

There we go, I fixed it for you.

Brando.1374:

Calvin.5380:

Jscull.2514:

Lol plz try telling me that higher tier = higher skill….. Please would LOVE to hear your reasoning…

Higher tier = higher skill. There, I said it. You may also check out the dictionary meaning of server “rank”

in this game the Server “rank” just shows how well the coverage is for that server not the skill of the players in that server.

BooHoo!

saiyr.3071:

Jscull.2514:

saiyr.3071:

Oozo.7856:

Well, you can man siege while eating pizza rolls in your underwear and you zergsurf while eating pizza rolls in your underwear but you can’t win a 5v5 against good players eating pizza rolls in your underwear unless they are also eating pizza rolls in their underwear.

Which has been known to happen.

Oozo, I think if you can’t 5v5 good players while eating pizza rolls you just need more practice. I mean gosh, that’s like Hardcore 101.

Jscull.2514:

Jscull.2514:

saiyr.3071:

Oozo.7856:

There weren’t very many good players in that matchup. Things were better in T5 and they are certainly better in T7. Sometimes you get matched up against dud servers with respect to finding good roamers. To take your experiences from one week and extrapolate that to conclude that all players from lower tiers are bad isn’t very smart.

We ran across plenty of bad players on Maguuma but we never extrapolated that to conclude that all players from Maguuma were bad. In fact, the rank and file PUG group on Maguuma was much much better than what Kaineng had but they made it to a higher tier than Maguuma. How do you explain that?

Oh yes, that’s right… general player skill has little to do with what tier you are playing in. It’s about numbers and coverage.

BTW, just earlier today I saw a ranger movie where on his first day of hitting L80 he was 1v3ing three people from War Machine in T1.

Tsarazi has been in more tiers than that, FWIW, but I dunno how they were back then. I don’t think the point is that higher tier = higher skill as much as lower tier doesn’t imply higher skill, which I feel like the other guy is trying to say (60 mans mashing 1/2 posts, etc). Assuming he can just beat every guild in T3 knowing little more than their names is embarrassing

Embarrassing to who? You have an “we’re above you in tier so we clearly would womp you mentality”

I invited you to our vent to listen in/chime in with 10 other guilds talking about this. I’m not biaaaatching out, I’m stepping up and inviting you.

Please point out where I assumed I could beat any t3 small man? Look at the word choice I used amigo. Said we give them a run for their money…..Keep dodging the fact that we have a bunch of true (have less than 10 guys in their guild total) small mans coming to our vent tonight to discuss an actual platform for small man roaming/fighting in t8.

You probably play mesmer right? Dodge roll, dodge roll, dodge roll. Keeeeeeeep on dodging

Haha, okay, I dislike you less now for that zinger. But no, I don’t play Mesmer. I am not dodging your invitation, I just don’t care about it. I have no intentions of leaving my server.

Thats because, 80% of what you want you are more than likely getting out of gw2 at the moment. And that is NOT mainly fighting small groups. Otherwise EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER would have been told, read, or just moved to t3 already. So what you are currently doing is most likely coming across small mans now and then, but mostly fighting smaller bib blobs of people…………………………………………………thats what we are TIRED of doing my friend. If you were tired of it and the 80% of what you want was 20%, youd move.

i don’t really know what you just said but okay

I said if you werent enjoying up to 80% of your time spent in game, you would be acting accordingly (considering moving tiers to where 5 mans are going). But because you are enjoying at least 80% of your time spent in game then I get responses like “Im not interested in moving”.

And because you are in t3 tells me theres probably 40-50% more total overall population than what we experience. The majority of the population in this game zerg as their style of pvp….so that means you deal with more zergs than we do. You must be content with that otherwise youd be open to moving.

I have fun doing lots of things, be it running larger guild groups to counter zerg on reset night or playing with much smaller guild groups outside of ~raid times~. So yes, I am content with what I have. I get a little bit of everything. But I like fighting big blobs of people, especially when outnumbered, which I guess is one big point where we differ.

saiyr.3071:

I have fun doing lots of things, be it running larger guild groups to counter zerg on reset night or playing with much smaller guild groups outside of ~raid times~. So yes, I am content with what I have. I get a little bit of everything. But I like fighting big blobs of people, especially when outnumbered, which I guess is one big point where we differ.

This is the point where u crack a beer and say, “boy it took a kitten load to get here”

I see nothing wrong with a load of kittens.

CHIPS.6018:

1) One common misconception I read here is that players in higher tiers are less skilled than players from lower tiers. Now this might be true on a personal basis. However in terms of teamwork, organization and tactics, it is much better in higher tiers.

Here is a video to demonstrate. Our 20 men zerg wiped a much bigger 60 men enemy zerg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4nLM8Va_qg#t=9m20s

You only get these kind of fights, organization, teamwork and tactics at higher tiers.

Sry i had to read all ur posts and watch ur whole vid a few times ^^ to see exacty what the hell ur talking about? You say “you only get these type of fights, organisation, teamwork and tactics at higher tiers” are u for real? not sure how many times i watched your video but i had to be quite certain before commenting I even started to think there was some hidden message in there or something, from watching your video and listening to your commentating i could not see nor hear anything different from what we see, hear, use, do or play like everyday in tier 5 EU. The only thing I would say is different (which wasn’t shown on video or commented on as far as i could tell) was there maybe another 1 or 2 blobs that size doing same thing somewhere else on the map, which makes no difference to me i cant be in 2 places at once.

You must think everyone below tier 4 is walking around a dead map scratching the heads without a clue what to do “Duh what do we do now?” “I dunno but i remember reading somewhere that u cap them tower looking things”

Only difference is coverage and numbers on map, end of story!

Just a word of caution: Some of the guilds posting on this thread are not accepting members and some say they aren’t sure or want you to play certain classes.

So before you transfer, make sure you have a spot if your guild isn’t transferring.

Ruprect.7260:

Jscull.2514:

Littlefeather.8623:

3-5 man teams: Some people are a little bit selfless and choose not to help their server I guess.

Lower tier fighting: can your guild leader have 20-30 people on him and out of a 45 min non stop battle (using siege, terrain, flanking, stealth, quick reaction) wipe a non stop 60 man force (T3 Yaks bend)? Which by the way was so much fun, and so many loot bags !

Can your commanders, while outnumbered, wipe away or even push back enemy zergs in T2?

Have any idea how much teamwork and organization this takes? Well not as much as lower tiers need I’ll say that much.

A “commander” leading 40-80 people who are ALL PRESSING 1 -2 SKILLS…….our 5 man uses 30-50 skills EACH in one fight….and win against 2/3/4x our number…..what is your argument for how building siege? coordinating 30 people to press 1 when hit by another zerg? spamming portal bombs and sitting on arrow carts make you hardcore at all…..like i said in previous post, “You carebears don’t even realize what hardcore pvp looks like”

Blah blah blah. If you can produce a video of your 5 man group wiping an ORGANIZED guild group of 20+ I will be impressed.

More than likely you just farm unorganized pugs lol. That is carebear PvP.

I seen them do it, seen other roaming groups do it also…. anything you can do these types of players can do better. A skilled pvper can excel and any part of the game if they chose too.

Lets bring some real world studies into this debate….Small companies have more capable individuals with a greater skill set then larger companies that do the same thing. I wont waste time explaining why that is.

I have seen T1 guilds step into Tpvp (I know its not the same as WvW) and get smashed by solo pug groups like myself. After they lost 4 or 5 (in a row?) I never seen them again. Im sure there are some great individual and small team players in T1-T3 but I will 100% tell you they did not become good by doing WvW, they had to of played a ton of Tpvp as a team.

The Lower tiers small elite groups lead to each individual player having greater skill, there is no buffer of a wall or arrow carts.

Also the commanders on lower tiers are just as good as higher, if you are on a high tier thinking you are doing some crazy tactics that no one in a lower tier has the brainpower to come up with….. you really are clueless.

CHIPS.6018:

placeboing.3896:

As someone on T1 NA spending 90% of my game time in WvW, I can’t believe this question is even being asked. Our WvW is just a massive pile of zergs. I can only imagine how much more individual player skill must be involved in the fights in the lower tiers. I am so jealous of how they must have regular 5v5s to 10v10s. I’d have transferred already if there were free transfers, but whenever I check every NA server is the same population as mine.

I am sure JQ have many havoc teams. Why not join one?

I normally solo-roam WvW. I have done it for 500+ hours. It is my favorite part of GW2. I do not care about my server’s standing in WvW (I have zero server loyalty). All I want is to find good fights in the open world. To me, there is nothing more satisfying in GW2 than winning outnumbered fights in WvW while solo-roaming.

I do run with friends that enjoy small group roaming too. Only 2 to 4 of us, because above that gets too crowded for our liking. But what are we supposed to do when literally FIFTY enemies in a zerg come rushing toward us? Those of us built heavily into escapes can get away, but there’s no way our engineer or guardian are escaping. 50 people trying to snare them are going to kill them. Some days, there is 50-man-zerg after 50-man-zerg, seemingly covering the entire kitten map.

Friendly commanders are even more annoying than enemy zergs. There’s nothing more frustrating than fighting a 1v3, being in the middle of winning this fight that has been going on for 3 minutes, and then a friendly commander rolls up with 50 people and just runs over the enemies in 5 seconds.

This is why I am jealous of the lower tiers. I imagine there is a lot more room for groups of 4 or less, or solo-roamers like me. I imagine there are still 20-man zergs, but I doubt they are seemingly everywhere as T1 seems to have at times.

Xom.9264:

Ruprect.7260:

Jscull.2514:

Littlefeather.8623:

3-5 man teams: Some people are a little bit selfless and choose not to help their server I guess.

Lower tier fighting: can your guild leader have 20-30 people on him and out of a 45 min non stop battle (using siege, terrain, flanking, stealth, quick reaction) wipe a non stop 60 man force (T3 Yaks bend)? Which by the way was so much fun, and so many loot bags !

Can your commanders, while outnumbered, wipe away or even push back enemy zergs in T2?

Have any idea how much teamwork and organization this takes? Well not as much as lower tiers need I’ll say that much.

A “commander” leading 40-80 people who are ALL PRESSING 1 -2 SKILLS…….our 5 man uses 30-50 skills EACH in one fight….and win against 2/3/4x our number…..what is your argument for how building siege? coordinating 30 people to press 1 when hit by another zerg? spamming portal bombs and sitting on arrow carts make you hardcore at all…..like i said in previous post, “You carebears don’t even realize what hardcore pvp looks like”

Blah blah blah. If you can produce a video of your 5 man group wiping an ORGANIZED guild group of 20+ I will be impressed.

More than likely you just farm unorganized pugs lol. That is carebear PvP.

I seen them do it, seen other roaming groups do it also…. anything you can do these types of players can do better. A skilled pvper can excel and any part of the game if they chose too.

Lets bring some real world studies into this debate….Small companies have more capable individuals with a greater skill set then larger companies that do the same thing. I wont waste time explaining why that is.

I have seen T1 guilds step into Tpvp (I know its not the same as WvW) and get smashed by solo pug groups like myself. After they lost 4 or 5 (in a row?) I never seen them again. Im sure there are some great individual and small team players in T1-T3 but I will 100% tell you they did not become good by doing WvW, they had to of played a ton of Tpvp as a team.

The Lower tiers small elite groups lead to each individual player having greater skill, there is no buffer of a wall or arrow carts.

Also the commanders on lower tiers are just as good as higher, if you are on a high tier thinking you are doing some crazy tactics that no one in a lower tier has the brainpower to come up with….. you really are clueless.

So a lower tier commander is just as good at commanding a 60 man zerg as a higher tier commander? How would you know this? In lower tiers they get much less exposure to 60 men zergs, so by default they get less experience with large scale battles.

In a 5v5 fight, it is very possible that a lower tier team would win. But when it comes to 60vs60, the higher tier team would win for sure. They have more experience with it by default.

Of course all these skills can be learned eventually if he stays in high tier. But that means that commander has already become a high tier commander. He is no longer a low tier commander.

A low tier guy trash talking a high tier guy in 60vs60 is just as ignorant as a high tier guy trash talking a low tier guy in 5v5.

In fact I would challenge you commanders from lower tiers to come up and lead zergs up here for a week or two. For example go to SOR (3rd place of tier 1) and lead them to victory against BG. Lead us high tier players to victory against a superior enemy, and we will be impressed. Show us your superior commanding skills.

Sample pictures of high tier:

1) We won this battle against YB.
2) We defended our keep against Mag. They had to retreat.

Can you do better?

I doubt once you get into the 30+ zerg range adding another 30 is going to change the tactics.

Anyway I hope those screen shots are not yours, because if they are you lost alot of points in my eyes. Those utility choices are…. not optimal some are ok but not for the kind of fighting you are doing. I can see spectral wall in a zerg fight on a push… but blood is power and spectral walk in a zerg fight… solo sure but not zerg.

I’m sure you are a great commander but this goes to the point of small scale fighters that look for other small scale fighters are just plain going to be better at the class they play and how it interacts with teammates and foes.

Seeing all the red bunched up there and your lack of perhaps the two best utilities in the game for those kinds of fights is a let down. I hate to sound elitist because I’m not at all…. but man why would you not have epidemic and corrupt boon when you are clearly a condition necro?

/shrug

Xom.9264:

I doubt once you get into the 30+ zerg range adding another 30 is going to change the tactics.

Anyway I hope those screen shots are not yours, because if they are you lost alot of points in my eyes. Those utility choices are…. not optimal some are ok but not for the kind of fighting you are doing. I can see spectral wall in a zerg fight on a push… but blood is power and spectral walk in a zerg fight… solo sure but not zerg.

I’m sure you are a great commander but this goes to the point of small scale fighters that look for other small scale fighters are just plain going to be better at the class they play and how it interacts with teammates and foes.

Seeing all the red bunched up there and your lack of perhaps the two best utilities in the game for those kinds of fights is a let down. I hate to sound elitist because I’m not at all…. but man why would you not have epidemic and corrupt boon when you are clearly a condition necro?

/shrug

It would help to explain why he is always making posts in the Necro forums about how bad necros are for WvW, wouldn’t it? BTW, I prefer well of corruption because it turns retaliation into confusion which can then be spread for larger stacks because of how the well pulses. In a large scale fight people seem to always have retaliation up due to guardians and blasts in light fields. It’s not uncommon to get a spread of 3-5 stacks of self-generated confusion using the well.

Xom.9264:

I doubt once you get into the 30+ zerg range adding another 30 is going to change the tactics.

Anyway I hope those screen shots are not yours, because if they are you lost alot of points in my eyes. Those utility choices are…. not optimal some are ok but not for the kind of fighting you are doing. I can see spectral wall in a zerg fight on a push… but blood is power and spectral walk in a zerg fight… solo sure but not zerg.

I’m sure you are a great commander but this goes to the point of small scale fighters that look for other small scale fighters are just plain going to be better at the class they play and how it interacts with teammates and foes.

Seeing all the red bunched up there and your lack of perhaps the two best utilities in the game for those kinds of fights is a let down. I hate to sound elitist because I’m not at all…. but man why would you not have epidemic and corrupt boon when you are clearly a condition necro?

/shrug

It would help to explain why he is always making posts in the Necro forums about how bad necros are for WvW, wouldn’t it? BTW, I prefer well of corruption because it turns retaliation into confusion which can then be spread for larger stacks because of how the well pulses. In a large scale fight people seem to always have retaliation up due to guardians and blasts in light fields. It’s not uncommon to get a spread of 3-5 stacks of self-generated confusion using the well.

As far as the number of red names in the screenshot. We deal with that kind of thing in the lower tiers. Except we do it with 10-15 people.

you want good fights? To win gloriously even when out-manned? To have large group tactics? To not be a little pansy? Check out Fort Aspenwood, through sheer willpower and unity in the face of over whelming odds fought our way from t6 and carved a bloody swath to t2, from which we fight tooth and nail for everything we got. No greater glory can be had, for we are the happy few.
Love you FA, always out-manned but never out-gunned

Oozo.7856:

Ungood.3054:

You have the top tiers, they would be called the varsity (lets say T 1 – 3) It is not because they better skilled, or better players, but because they put more effort into it or simply just transferred over. They play after school, every day, and work on becoming the best they can be at what they do or they just transfer over.

There we go, I fixed it for you.

Are the transfers worse then the existing residents? Not sure what you are trying to say with this.

placeboing.3896:

I do run with friends that enjoy small group roaming too. Only 2 to 4 of us, because above that gets too crowded for our liking. But what are we supposed to do when literally FIFTY enemies in a zerg come rushing toward us? Those of us built heavily into escapes can get away, but there’s no way our engineer or guardian are escaping. 50 people trying to snare them are going to kill them. Some days, there is 50-man-zerg after 50-man-zerg, seemingly covering the entire kitten map.

Friendly commanders are even more annoying than enemy zergs. There’s nothing more frustrating than fighting a 1v3, being in the middle of winning this fight that has been going on for 3 minutes, and then a friendly commander rolls up with 50 people and just runs over the enemies in 5 seconds.

This is why I am jealous of the lower tiers. I imagine there is a lot more room for groups of 4 or less, or solo-roamers like me. I imagine there are still 20-man zergs, but I doubt they are seemingly everywhere as T1 seems to have at times.

Nail meet head.

Ungood.3054:

Oozo.7856:

Ungood.3054:

You have the top tiers, they would be called the varsity (lets say T 1 – 3) It is not because they better skilled, or better players, but because they put more effort into it or simply just transferred over. They play after school, every day, and work on becoming the best they can be at what they do or they just transfer over.

There we go, I fixed it for you.

Are the transfers worse then the existing residents? Not sure what you are trying to say with this.

You originally stated that T1-T3 players “put more effort into it” to get to T1-T3.

This ignores the fact that you used to be able to transfer for free, and can today just pay X amount of gold, to join a T1-T3 server. That doesn’t require any effort, skill, dedication, etc.

you kinda miss the point of WvW. Hardcore players don’t zerg t4 and below is far better place for roamers than t1..t3. I know because I was in every tier. T1-t3 are just zerg balls boring wvw.

It may sound redundant but there are ALOT of small man (5 man guilds) and soloers heading down to our tier. There are Zerg blobs but they are of 20-30 pretty newish players (some are decent). Point is the Zerg is manageable from a small scale perspective. There are not 40+ mans. So finding small scale fights is more abundant and often. If you are tired of Zerg balls and people talkin crap that kill you with 10-20+…. T8 would probably suit you well.

We were about a week from quitting because of the 98% gw2 community of zerging mindless goofs. We switched to t8, probably extended months for us.

you should play tpvp if you want 5vs5 lmao (no capping).

you should play starcraft if you want zerg.

Xirin.8593:

Ungood.3054:

Oozo.7856:

Ungood.3054:

You have the top tiers, they would be called the varsity (lets say T 1 – 3) It is not because they better skilled, or better players, but because they put more effort into it or simply just transferred over. They play after school, every day, and work on becoming the best they can be at what they do or they just transfer over.

There we go, I fixed it for you.

Are the transfers worse then the existing residents? Not sure what you are trying to say with this.

You originally stated that T1-T3 players “put more effort into it” to get to T1-T3.

This ignores the fact that you used to be able to transfer for free, and can today just pay X amount of gold, to join a T1-T3 server. That doesn’t require any effort, skill, dedication, etc.

Well they also put more effort to stay where they are as well. Even if you transfer up, you still need to step up and get your game on to be in T 1 – 3. You can’t walk into the top tiers and play like you are still in T8, per say.

Ungood.3054:

Xirin.8593:

Ungood.3054:

Oozo.7856:

Ungood.3054:

You have the top tiers, they would be called the varsity (lets say T 1 – 3) It is not because they better skilled, or better players, but because they put more effort into it or simply just transferred over. They play after school, every day, and work on becoming the best they can be at what they do or they just transfer over.

There we go, I fixed it for you.

Are the transfers worse then the existing residents? Not sure what you are trying to say with this.

You originally stated that T1-T3 players “put more effort into it” to get to T1-T3.

This ignores the fact that you used to be able to transfer for free, and can today just pay X amount of gold, to join a T1-T3 server. That doesn’t require any effort, skill, dedication, etc.

Well they also put more effort to stay where they are as well. Even if you transfer up, you still need to step up and get your game on to be in T 1 – 3. You can’t walk into the top tiers and play like you are still in T8, per say.

You can put in effort, but you don’t have to. You can literally just pay X gold, transfer to T1-T3, and now you are a member of the “elite” tiers. That’s the premise of Oozo’s post and my clarification.

Xom.9264:

I doubt once you get into the 30+ zerg range adding another 30 is going to change the tactics.

Anyway I hope those screen shots are not yours, because if they are you lost alot of points in my eyes. Those utility choices are…. not optimal some are ok but not for the kind of fighting you are doing. I can see spectral wall in a zerg fight on a push… but blood is power and spectral walk in a zerg fight… solo sure but not zerg.

I’m sure you are a great commander but this goes to the point of small scale fighters that look for other small scale fighters are just plain going to be better at the class they play and how it interacts with teammates and foes.

Seeing all the red bunched up there and your lack of perhaps the two best utilities in the game for those kinds of fights is a let down. I hate to sound elitist because I’m not at all…. but man why would you not have epidemic and corrupt boon when you are clearly a condition necro?

/shrug

And you lose a lot of points in my eyes for suggesting Epidemic in a 60vs60 zerg fight. The game lag and computer lag, combined with its new line of sight requirement make Epidemic useless in WvW, specially for tower defense.

You clearly have very little experience with 60vs60, and no experience with tower defense. You don’t even browse the necro forums much. If you do, you would not ever mention Epidemic for WvW.

You probably do a lot of 5v5 to 20v20 open field battles, and your opinions are based from that. It just goes to show how different the two game play type is.

Oozo.7856:

Xom.9264:

I doubt once you get into the 30+ zerg range adding another 30 is going to change the tactics.

Anyway I hope those screen shots are not yours, because if they are you lost alot of points in my eyes. Those utility choices are…. not optimal some are ok but not for the kind of fighting you are doing. I can see spectral wall in a zerg fight on a push… but blood is power and spectral walk in a zerg fight… solo sure but not zerg.

I’m sure you are a great commander but this goes to the point of small scale fighters that look for other small scale fighters are just plain going to be better at the class they play and how it interacts with teammates and foes.

Seeing all the red bunched up there and your lack of perhaps the two best utilities in the game for those kinds of fights is a let down. I hate to sound elitist because I’m not at all…. but man why would you not have epidemic and corrupt boon when you are clearly a condition necro?

/shrug

It would help to explain why he is always making posts in the Necro forums about how bad necros are for WvW, wouldn’t it? BTW, I prefer well of corruption because it turns retaliation into confusion which can then be spread for larger stacks because of how the well pulses. In a large scale fight people seem to always have retaliation up due to guardians and blasts in light fields. It’s not uncommon to get a spread of 3-5 stacks of self-generated confusion using the well.

I do use Well of Corruption. But I go around to test many different builds, different armor and different runes to see what works.

Xirin.8593:

Ungood.3054:

Xirin.8593:

Ungood.3054:

Oozo.7856:

Ungood.3054:

You have the top tiers, they would be called the varsity (lets say T 1 – 3) It is not because they better skilled, or better players, but because they put more effort into it or simply just transferred over. They play after school, every day, and work on becoming the best they can be at what they do or they just transfer over.

There we go, I fixed it for you.

Are the transfers worse then the existing residents? Not sure what you are trying to say with this.

You originally stated that T1-T3 players “put more effort into it” to get to T1-T3.

This ignores the fact that you used to be able to transfer for free, and can today just pay X amount of gold, to join a T1-T3 server. That doesn’t require any effort, skill, dedication, etc.

Well they also put more effort to stay where they are as well. Even if you transfer up, you still need to step up and get your game on to be in T 1 – 3. You can’t walk into the top tiers and play like you are still in T8, per say.

You can put in effort, but you don’t have to. You can literally just pay X gold, transfer to T1-T3, and now you are a member of the “elite” tiers. That’s the premise of Oozo’s post and my clarification.

I see what you are saying.

CHIPS.6018:

And you lose a lot of points in my eyes for suggesting Epidemic in a 60vs60 zerg fight. The game lag and computer lag, combined with its new line of sight requirement make Epidemic useless in WvW, specially for tower defense.

You clearly have very little experience with 60vs60, and no experience with tower defense. You don’t even browse the necro forums much. If you do, you would not ever mention Epidemic for WvW.

You probably do a lot of 5v5 to 20v20 open field battles, and your opinions are based from that. It just goes to show how different the two game play type is.

As a T8 player, it sounds terrible that you can’t use skills due to skill and game lag. The few times that I’ve experienced skill lag has been a frustrating experience. Do you experience skill lag every night?

This is not really a commentary on you or your build. The game SHOULD let you use all your skills regardless whether it is 100v100v100 or 1v1

It does sound like there are different play styles between players and tiers. Just go out there and have fun.

@ chips and epidemic its huge in wvw and very useful. And yes I go to the necro forums, hell even have my own thread and also been asked to do the podcast but just haven’t had the time to do it. But to say epidemic is not good for wvw is just plain silly.

subcrazy.1098:

@ chips and epidemic its huge in wvw and very useful. And yes I go to the necro forums, hell even have my own thread and also been asked to do the podcast but just haven’t had the time to do it. But to say epidemic is not good for wvw is just plain silly.

Epidemic only hits 5 players. in a 60v60 thats not a huge impact.
in a 10 v 10 epidemic has a huge impact because that’s half of the enemies forces which will have to clean the conditions and blow utilities or heals.

subcrazy.1098:

@ chips and epidemic its huge in wvw and very useful. And yes I go to the necro forums, hell even have my own thread and also been asked to do the podcast but just haven’t had the time to do it. But to say epidemic is not good for wvw is just plain silly.

Epidemic is weaker then wells though unless 5v5-10ish and epidemic is better now its unblockable

I don’t want to derail this thread to much but epidemic is on 12 sec CD if specced for it. So I can get that off 2-4 times well u do 1 well. Now I do get that wells at times are better for zerging I guess. I just don’t see how some calls I’m immobilizing and u spread that to 4 other ppl u just locked down 5 ppl. Just a small example. Also all conditions u spread take the necros stats.

subcrazy.1098:

I don’t want to derail this thread to much but epidemic is on 12 sec CD if specced for it. So I can get that off 2-4 times well u do 1 well. Now I do get that wells at times are better for zerging I guess. I just don’t see how some calls I’m immobilizing and u spread that to 4 other ppl u just locked down 5 ppl. Just a small example. Also all conditions u spread take the necros stats.

Wells vs epi can be debated all day all situational and based on play style so both are good

I can agree with that :p

Did Os and PAXA just agree on somethin? Lemme grab the champagne.

Well I had a look at the video which shows a zerg own other zergs. Of course they are organized, but it also comes down to people doing what they are told. Yes that is sort of being organized. Yeah being a commander of a 60 man zerg is maybe different. What I would’ve expected after the buildup was a 60 man zerg splitting into 3 20 man zergs, and while the other zerg goes in for the kill on 1 part, the other 2 shreds them from behind. That would have been amazing. Still not enough for me to consider moving to the higher tiers though. I’m a cheap b*stard and my pc can’t handle 30vs30vs30 SM lord room battles either. You say running in organized groups (prolly not a zerg if half of what you are saying is true btw) is testing yourself… well I don’t look into that kind of competition in my freetime playing a game. 5v5, 10v10, 20v20 is enough for me, and I also have the chance to have an impact, other than being Healing spring dude #5. You think 60vs60 is as epic as it gets, I beg to defer. A guild zerg appeard under Ruins of Surmia, that had roughly 50-60 players in it. I didn’t do the counting but based on reports it consisted of 50% guardians, 25% necros, 25% eles. Sounds like something people would do in t1-3 to me, sounds organized. But fun? Hell no. I like the chaos that a lower tier can offer. I’ll stay thank you.

Also the line in the video “We should be dropping the static field, not them, we should be dropping the static field not them.” just made me smile, no offense

nagymbear.5280:

Well I had a look at the video which shows a zerg own other zergs. Of course they are organized, but it also comes down to people doing what they are told. Yes that is sort of being organized. Yeah being a commander of a 60 man zerg is maybe different. What I would’ve expected after the buildup was a 60 man zerg splitting into 3 20 man zergs, and while the other zerg goes in for the kill on 1 part, the other 2 shreds them from behind. That would have been amazing. Still not enough for me to consider moving to the higher tiers though. I’m a cheap b*stard and my pc can’t handle 30vs30vs30 SM lord room battles either. You say running in organized groups (prolly not a zerg if half of what you are saying is true btw) is testing yourself… well I don’t look into that kind of competition in my freetime playing a game. 5v5, 10v10, 20v20 is enough for me, and I also have the chance to have an impact, other than being Healing spring dude #5. You think 60vs60 is as epic as it gets, I beg to defer. A guild zerg appeard under Ruins of Surmia, that had roughly 50-60 players in it. I didn’t do the counting but based on reports it consisted of 50% guardians, 25% necros, 25% eles. Sounds like something people would do in t1-3 to me, sounds organized. But fun? Hell no. I like the chaos that a lower tier can offer. I’ll stay thank you.

Also the line in the video “We should be dropping the static field, not them, we should be dropping the static field not them.” just made me smile, no offense

We do use two commanders in one zerg to split sometimes. Just not in that case. It really depends on the quality of the zerg and how many people are on teamspeak. Many new players have problems following just one commander, so having two will only add to the confusion. Its something we are working toward everyday.

I do know a guild in FA that uses 3 commanders in one zerg, which allows them to attack front, left and right at the same time. So it does happen in higher tiers. Everyone just need to know exactly which commander they are following and don’t get confused.

subcrazy.1098:

I don’t want to derail this thread to much but epidemic is on 12 sec CD if specced for it. So I can get that off 2-4 times well u do 1 well. Now I do get that wells at times are better for zerging I guess. I just don’t see how some calls I’m immobilizing and u spread that to 4 other ppl u just locked down 5 ppl. Just a small example. Also all conditions u spread take the necros stats.

I will repeat:

Line of sight requirement =>Epidemic is useless is tower defense and tower attacks. It misses too often to be of use.

Skill lag, game lag, popularity of condition removal in WvW=>Picking out that single target with a ton of conditions on him and casting Epidemic on time is difficult. Did I say impossible? Nope. But its just not worth the trouble. You are better off using wells because they work much more consistently.

CHIPS.6018:

subcrazy.1098:

I don’t want to derail this thread to much but epidemic is on 12 sec CD if specced for it. So I can get that off 2-4 times well u do 1 well. Now I do get that wells at times are better for zerging I guess. I just don’t see how some calls I’m immobilizing and u spread that to 4 other ppl u just locked down 5 ppl. Just a small example. Also all conditions u spread take the necros stats.

I will repeat:

Line of sight requirement =>Epidemic is useless is tower defense and tower attacks. It misses too often to be of use.

Skill lag, game lag, popularity of condition removal in WvW=>Picking out that single target with a ton of conditions on him and casting Epidemic on time is difficult. Did I say impossible? Nope. But its just not worth the trouble. You are better off using wells because they work much more consistently.

No, it is better for you. We don’t sit on walls, we actually open field fight everyone. Subcrazy is top 1-3 necros’ I’ve seen in the last 6-7 months. Corrupt boon / epidemic absolutely melts our targets….. It makes bunkers = silly string. You worry about 60 targets….he worries about the groups main assist target….(that’s one target if you don’t know the terminology), the aoe of epidemic is a bonus.

I’m not doubting you Zerg and have experience doing that, but don’t try telling one of the BEST necros in the game what abilities melt targets especially since we run 55 less than you. Think we may have a little more idea of what fighting under ridiculous circumstances seeing as we don’t rely on a barrier of teal to win.

CHIPS.6018:

subcrazy.1098:

I don’t want to derail this thread to much but epidemic is on 12 sec CD if specced for it. So I can get that off 2-4 times well u do 1 well. Now I do get that wells at times are better for zerging I guess. I just don’t see how some calls I’m immobilizing and u spread that to 4 other ppl u just locked down 5 ppl. Just a small example. Also all conditions u spread take the necros stats.

I will repeat:

Line of sight requirement =>Epidemic is useless is tower defense and tower attacks. It misses too often to be of use.

Skill lag, game lag, popularity of condition removal in WvW=>Picking out that single target with a ton of conditions on him and casting Epidemic on time is difficult. Did I say impossible? Nope. But its just not worth the trouble. You are better off using wells because they work much more consistently.

Well when we do attack a tower which is not much. You put condis on the archer then spread them to the ppl by them, archer dosnt move works all the time. I’m sorry but epidemic isn’t hard to get off. Corrput boon on the other hand fails a lot. Lol. I’m not going on about this no more, as stated above they both have there uses my point was its not pointless in wvw.

Nirvana.5796:

(…) Lower tier servers straight up don’t have the organization thats so common in higher tiers.(…)

Can I invite you to see EU T1?

This thread really seems as pointless as banging on the table and forcing the guy opposite you to like the brand of beer you are drinking.

Here are a few things to consider

1)
Different tiers field different numbers and that is why fights may vary from 1v1 to 5v5 and even to 80v80

2)
Due to the different number of players fielded, each tier develops it’s own meta. Commanders and players develop different skill sets

3)
Skill does not simply equate to just being able to kill players. It involves more than that. Being able to command a 30 or 40 group as 1 entity is on a totally different level. Does that make a commander not fantastic at 1v1 a lousy player? No. His talent is just as if not more valuable i.e able to get a group to move as 1 entity.

4)
Strategies for different sized groups vary greatly and harping on I can kill 1vX number of people is meaningless. It is truly a work of art when you see an organized group kill on the field especially when they take on greater numbers.

5)
Once the group sizes become bigger, you will start to see that there is alot of thought put into team synergy, making builds work with each other, combo fields, field movement, timing of attacks, group composition, weapon and skill interactions etc. This is something that a 1v1, 2v2 or 5v5 won’t see. There is nothing wrong with that, just means that meta and playstyles differ. Experiencing such fights simply means paying ANET gems to move to a different tier.

6)
Different players like different play styles, some of you guys enjoy 1v1, 2v2, 5v5, 10v10. There are also others that like to play 30v30, 30v50 or even 80v80. That does not however mean they are any less skilled than someone playing 1v1, 2v2. It is a totally different play orientation.

7)
A 1v1, 2v2 player harping on “I can kill X who plays often in a 30v30 group = he sucks” is extremely lame and naive. Builds designed for group combat and builds designed for 1v1, 2v2 etc comabt are vastly different in focus. Tradeoffs and compromises are made resulting in weaknesses when forced into a combat scenario it is not designed for and vice versa.

Lastly, I believe we all should be able to acknowledge that different players like different playstyles and hence reside in different tiers. Constant harping on who is better or trying to one up the other is doing nobody any favours.

T1-T3 : Rage
T4 – Tx : Awesome competition