Guild Wars 2

Wall of text inc but i see the state of the game mode at an alarming point and would like to have a discussion about it with you guys

Yes, it did. The initial idea was awesome and worked out for the first linking and i dont blame Anet for it – we all voted for it in the first place.

But what we see now is that people use the linking only to bandwaggon to the higher servers (speaking for EU).

I know that a major income of Anet is the transfers and this “problem” might be 2013 but, imbalance and bandwaggoning didn’t feel that bad till the people started abusing the linking system.

I wonder how many people of the original “low tier servers” are still playing on their original servers. It really cant be that much anymore that we can justify the linking system in its original purpose.

What could be possible solutions?

1. Stop linking low tier servers with top tier servers (!) instead make links between the lowtier servers. Link 3-4 at same time, i dont see the problem. Just add for example the top linked low tier servers to the bottom ones – and done. The majority of the guys playing on these servers played there because they wanted to avoid the top tier blobs and enjoy sitting on unattacked waypoints :p

2. Consolidate 1 more tier in eu – for example? – abbadon + millers sound + Drakkar // augury rock + Jade sea // 1 more eu server to gunnars.

I would even go so far to say its time for a merges instead of linking. The majority of the low tier servers are completely dead after the linking anyway at least people could build communities again which is the only reason that wvw wasnt completely dead btw.

Getting more and more random and bandwaggoned WvW feels like at its last drops, which might not be true yet, but as said, it feels like. People are panic transfering to the most populated server/(s) and everything below tier 2 feels like stone age wvwers trying to keep their servers alive.

3. Expand the kitten transfer penalty time….. 7 days ? like whats gonna stop someone to even think about that “penalty” if it stays 7 days.. make it 1 – 3 month! We voted for linking every 2 Month – people shouldnt have time to change servers before every new linking! Whats the point (initial idea) that people transfer to the old low-tier servers then? The idea before was to fill those servers right?
People should think before they press the buttons and it shouldnt be so kitten easy to hop like a bunny from server to server.

4. Make gem differences higher. Although i think right now 1800 gems are “enough” transfering to a lower tier server should cost less, if you really want to make these more active again – I have to admit i don’t believe myself anymore that people want to join low tier servers to make the server itself “alive”. So I would put more effort into merging and locking transfers or making it harder to transfer.

All in all I dont see the point of transfering to medium servers at all. We all know that WvW wont get an influx of a suddenly 500k people joining the game mode and filling the low tier servers. The times are gone. So i would simply, propose again – Merges.

Its sad to see people abused linking so hard and the idea behind it failed – but dont make a mistake and wait too long again with actions. Give some purpose for people to play on the server that they are instead of bandwaggoning around.

I’m very well aware that these proposals are against any way of Anets idea of earning more money – but lets face it: If things with the population stay as they are right now, the game mode will just die out faster.

I would vote for merges personally.

I think asking transfer penalty to be increased is ludicrous, not everyone transfers for the sake of bandwagoning so it’s pretty unreasonable to punish people for the actions of some. If our guild transfers we don’t choose the highest population winning server, we usually go to the under dog server because the reason to move in the first place for us is new enemies and the under dog server is where u will find that more often then not. It also wouldn’t be fair to those lower population servers, if it gets to the point of completely dull and boring they shouldn’t be penalized for seeking out fun in a game they paid for, more so after paying more for the transfer.

Vote or not, merges should have happened instead of this half way measure, imo it was an unneeded feature, linking is basically merges with the possibility to be linked with another server at some point. Variety right? Wrong, variety should come in the form of a scoring system that not only works but encourages variety. Servers get stacked typically to encourage movement and tier change ups (tournaments are a whole different beast) which would happen on it’s own with a proper scoring system. In fact I would go as far as to blame Glicko and the refusal to abandon it as one of the largest reasons stacking and transfer happen.

tony.9425:

If things with the population stay as they are right now, the game mode will just die out faster.

Which is what people said before the links. 3 years ago. And 2 years ago. And 1 year ago. And… well we all get it.

But granted, the links hasnt really helped things. I dont think the idea is wrong, but IMO the implementation, speed of which the links change and transfers make it moot.

We still need a way to differentiate people from different links (and encourage them by giving them an identity with capped objectives by them). Links should shift considerably faster and transfers from low tier link servers to high tier link servers need to be discouraged.

The main problem remain the way matchups work. Anet can link servers now and should expand on that. If they can get proper identity working, we can remove tiers alltogether and rank servers per colored faction. IE we would see 3-4 matchups of 3 fixed factions (no more color changes) between population matched servers (some randomness will occur).

No more “oh we are rank 18 and never getting out of this glicko hell hole” bullkitten. No more tiers. Server glicko points would determine per faction ranks, not the matchups the server end up in.

It would solve server transfers by design. But it would also mean less money to Anet, so nvm scratch this completely.

Anet just needs to learn when to lock the bloody servers. DB/IOJ was holding their own 2 weeks ago and the score was very close the entire week. Had they decided to lock the two servers at that time T1 would have continued to be fun, but they are STILL open! So what is happening is that BD/IOJ can continue to get guilds whereas BG and TC are locked out. Now the balance is all shot to kitten and DB will need to be separated from IOJ if they don’t just want there to be only one choice, again rendering any "balance " moot.

500 gems is all you need to enter T1 through IOJ BTW.

Linking / Unlinking, it is not going to solve anything, because bandwagoning will still be possible.

The only solution is forcing (approximately) even number of players in wvw. Surplus players will have wait in the queue and even be kicked from wvw of the opposing numbers dwindle. Overstocked server will have to transfer out to low pop. servers to be able to play.

Only with even numbers will there me “fair” fights, will any form of scoring have meaning.

But we wont like it, because
- you cant play wvw atm because opp.servers dont have enough players online
- you will be kicked out of wvw because opp.server players logout.
- etc etc

Link guild progression to servers and reset it with every move. The guild moves are what throw things out of balance.

tony.9425:

1. Stop linking low tier servers with top tier servers (!) instead make links between the lowtier servers. Link 3-4 at same time, i dont see the problem. Just add for example the top linked low tier servers to the bottom ones – and done. The majority of the guys playing on these servers played there because they wanted to avoid the top tier blobs and enjoy sitting on unattacked waypoints :p

Have you taken a look at T4 NA? If you don’t see a problem in that tier, you are the one who have problems.

I wouldn’t say its a complete fail. Before the links on many tiers all maps were empty most of the time and that situation has greatly improved. You can find action now on most servers somewhere.

Now what kind of action, that is a different story as a lot of it is unpleasant and just not fun. For example, current T4.

From what I see, the whole linking thing is unfinished and can not be finished due to large groups of players bandwagoning and server hopping. Only way to finish it would be to completely lock down transfers to high population servers, and limit transfers to any server that reaches X amount within X period of time. Unfortunately due to the overstacker whining this will never happen. Hence the current situation.

Jeknar.6184:

tony.9425:

1. Stop linking low tier servers with top tier servers (!) instead make links between the lowtier servers. Link 3-4 at same time, i dont see the problem. Just add for example the top linked low tier servers to the bottom ones – and done. The majority of the guys playing on these servers played there because they wanted to avoid the top tier blobs and enjoy sitting on unattacked waypoints :p

Have you taken a look at T4 NA? If you don’t see a problem in that tier, you are the one who have problems.

I clearly am not the one with problems so read carefully before you give the mods a reason to close a thread which surely needs attention.

They linked wrong – i hope youre happy now. Which is what i wrote btw.

It isn’t that it failed, they are looking at it the wrong way. Promoting it, whatever you want to call it. This isn’t a server thing, you can’t fix transfers, who logged into where upon launch, nor where new players will call home.

The fundamental problem is that we are seeing this has a “server” ranking and ego thing rather than bringing it down to the lower levels of Guilds, Players, and maybe future, Alliances.

Case in point. Look at 10,11, and 12. They are talking about bumping CD’s Glicko rating to move them. What is so special about CD? You already paired them with Kaineng, Eredon Terrace, and Borlis Pass. How did that turn out other than kitten off Sorrow’s Furnance, Ferguson’s Crossing, and Gates of Madn. Oh wait, what about Darkhaven and Ehmry Bay? Yeah – the match making really worked didn’t it when it is a 4 v 3 v 2. The match making totally screwed over servers that used to be middle tier but ran into the preverbal player population and wall clock wall and couldn’t go further.

See the difference? You can’t fix server. It is broke. Only one can be number one, someone has to be second, third, etc. Focus on players, guilds, alliances, classes, rank structure, etc. We have had the current system in one form or another since launch and it is still kittened up has it was day one.

I am one of the rare cases that joined a smaller server (Vabbi, the smallest in fact) on purpose, when such transfer was temporarely free of cost. We were the few against the zerg. Familiar faces were common and commanders were legends.

But then, with server linking, I found myself fighting in the name of strangers that clock out for other strangers; and that is before rotation turned these allied strangers into opponents the following week and put me together with another cycle of strangers under their banner. This is how being from a low tier server is like now. Strangers from large servers often don’t resurrect you either and ever since, I only clock in for dailies and the dungeon reward track.

Bazompora.2635:

Strangers from large servers often don’t resurrect you either

Same strangers that can easily be Vabbi because the game makes no difference.

But still, this is exactly what we told Anet would happen before the links was even activated. Smaller linked servers would loose themselves among the larger servers when there isnt any defining feature that set them apart. The idea of an entire small server as “roaming mercenaries” is fine if they have that identity visible ingame. But without it… You may as well merge with the larger server.

Linking isn’t perfect. The first attempt was especially bad since they really didn’t look at server coverage.

But overall it’s been very good. You meet new people, the maps fill up and there are plenty of fights to be found.

It helped to open up the tiers a little bit too, but not enough. Glicko still sucks.

I support you. My main problem is, that there WAS balance before. Why?
-people could transfer to the tier they want to play in.
You want huge blob farmfests with lag? Go T1
You want smaller blobs or roaming but cant handle lag or blobs? move to a lower tier
You are welcome everywhere. And blobbing isnt endless due to server caps.
Now smaller servers get blobbed down since they cant transfer to a lower tier to escape it. And bigger servers just got bigger, blobbier and you get ganked everywhere since you dont only got people who enjoy blobs and organized fights, you also got roamers behind every corner. With condi builds, but thats another annoying topic.
Basically: You could choose were to go. You are on a high populated server? Well enjoy fighting 4 servers while 2 of those got a partner whilst having no huge difference to the hight populated server. GG anet.

tony.9425:

I would even go so far to say its time for a merges instead of linking. The majority of the low tier servers are completely dead after the linking anyway at least people could build communities again which is the only reason that wvw wasnt completely dead btw.

Coming from a low tier server I can agree with a lot of what you’ve said – particularly about the cost of server transfers. As servers only matter in WvW the cost should be based on the current tier your server is in – not your population.

However I strongly disagree with the statement above. I think you are confusing “community” with “population”. I went through a couple of servers before I found one where I felt comfortable with the community and I would argue that we all had three years to find that. We had built our community and I don’t think we should have to build it again with a whole bunch of strangers.

Now I can hear you say “but server linking has put you with a whole bunch of strangers…” and you are right. Perhaps we on RoF were lucky that we got linked with WsR, an equal size server with similar views about WvW and I would say our combined communities have benefitted from that. Perhaps it would have been different had I been on RoS or Vabbi.

Oh and it’s wrong to say the low tier servers are dead – have you fought AM/MS or GH/UW recently?

Some of us suggested deleting everything every X months and remake X number of servers, let players choose new server then. That suggestion is considered controversial by many though the number of people accepting that is gradually increasing as people are realizing the limit of linking and merger.

Linking has been the lesser of 2 evils compared to doing nothing. It surely spices things up. You’re expecting Anet to predict bandwagoners. People transferring to the underdog by going up? T4 had the most action first 2 weeks.

Nah if you were really trying to play the under dog, you’d play on DH atm and try to rally it up. But most guilds that transfer around are almost ded guilds that couldn’t hold their own ground.

Stagnation kills tiers more than anything. Why do you think T1 needs to keep buying guilds?

Well I think the linking has been fantastic. After giving wvw away for a long time I am enjoying it immensely.
It is great to go to wvw now and actually have people to fight with and against.
Playing from Australia in Ruins of Surmia forces most of my playing into off peak times, it is awesome to not have empty maps greeting me or stare so long at the outnumbered icon that I start to think it’s part of my skill bar.
Linking has bought me back to this game mode.

My perspective, and I’m on BG, is that linking has been pretty good. It’s revitalized WvW and brought more population into the game.

However, it has been neglected. This needs to be actively handled every week. As soon as a server gets into T1, they need to be unlinked. DB is in 2nd, and about to be in first. There’s no reason why they should have IoJ linked to them. Also, YB has not had a linked server for weeks and they’re currently in 6th. Anet is dropping the ball on this.

Spurnshadow.3678:

My perspective, and I’m on BG, is that linking has been pretty good. It’s revitalized WvW and brought more population into the game.

However, it has been neglected. This needs to be actively handled every week. As soon as a server gets into T1, they need to be unlinked. DB is in 2nd, and about to be in first. There’s no reason why they should have IoJ linked to them. Also, YB has not had a linked server for weeks and they’re currently in 6th. Anet is dropping the ball on this.

They can’t hear you with all those gems blinding them!

If they would have just looked the trends, and saw that DB was due to move up almost immediately upon being linked, they wouldn’t have linked them to begin with. I know, crazy talk. The matchup predictions are posted each week, it wouldn’t have been that hard to glance at them.

tony.9425:

Wall of text inc but i see the state of the game mode at an alarming point and would like to have a discussion about it with you guys

Yes, it did. The initial idea was awesome and worked out for the first linking and i dont blame Anet for it – we all voted for it in the first place.

…

1. Stop linking low tier servers with top tier servers (!) instead make links between the lowtier servers. Link 3-4 at same time, i dont see the problem. Just add for example the top linked low tier servers to the bottom ones – and done. The majority of the guys playing on these servers played there because they wanted to avoid the top tier blobs and enjoy sitting on unattacked waypoints :p

This. THIS. This.

I left my original server for GoM because it wasn’t that great because I didn’t like huge zergs and having to queue into WvW maps. The new linking system blows. Logging in now I find people getting frustrated with me for not having TS, and on two occasions having been accused of being a “spy” for whatever reason.

1) I don’t understand why anyone would even spy in the first place.
2) What the f***?

I play WvW to gunflame people who think that WvW is a safe place to gather mats so I can feel like I’m good at the game. I don’t play for people who take it so seriously that they start kicking other players out of open squads(you can close them yourselves, you know?) because “they could be spies.”

Well after all something has to be done…. in EU everything below T2 doesnt have anything to do out of prime other than 20+-5 ppl playing. The rest waggoned up to the linked servers.

Also the identity of all the linked guest servers are erased. Entire communities dont know what to do, since you dont know with who you will linked. It’s sad and well other than merging servers and stopping that linking nightmare all these linked servers will lose their people one way or the other. Either people transfer up or quit.

They needed to take a real decision and merge it all.
Linking is a half measure which won’t work.

Anyway besides polls what has really changed? They didn’t even change the scoring system and they know it’s meaningless since 2013.

Xillllix.3485:

They needed to take a real decision and merge it all.
Linking is a half measure which won’t work.

Anyway besides polls what has really changed? They didn’t even change the scoring system and they know it’s meaningless since 2013.

Pretty much this, i would love to see a continnent with several smaller maps that can be controlled by guilds ToT.

Communities dotn get loss that way, people can get organized, server X and Y gets more focus on A and B map, more peopel to call to some map where lacks players, etc…
They could have quest/missons with rewards for havoks and smaller guilds to disrupt enemy maps etc.
Instead of this chest spam for being afk… in a empty map.

Jeknar.6184:

Have you taken a look at T4 NA? If you don’t see a problem in that tier, you are the one who have problems.

The link worked in most tiers but they should have left room in their design to move around a server or two after the initial linking. Had ANet moved BP to the FA link in week 2, they could have balanced out T2 and T4 a bit. Thet might want to do one more the following week but after that we probably would have seen some very balanced scores in each tier.

T1 this and T4 that. No mergers I’m sick of not getting in Friday night or have to wait an hour or 2 to get in. You want to start balancing WvW then attack the real problem. Its time for Anet to stop promoting PvP and Pve with money and content overload and start making WvW just as important as the other two. The new rewards system was a good idea but broken as certain types of players (namely scouts and even roamers can suffer). Lets do more to promote the lower tiers as well and get them filled up. WvW may not be your biggest money maker but it still has a large following and needs the attention.

bgoodwin.3428:

Lets do more to promote the lower tiers as well and get them filled up.

Like what?

Jeknar I wish I had the answer to that question or I would start to fill my lower tier server. But then again that is what the forums are for. Lets start throwing out our ideas and maybe Anet will pick up on them.

That’s the problem… I really cannot think in somenthing to help lower tiers that isn’t going to promote flocking to a single world in order to receive easy rewards. And as long there are no incantive to play in the lower tiers, people won’t.

I’d suggest ANet replace the Fixed 3 Way Fight Model with a King of the Hill Model.

Implement a New Game Mode that directly addresses the 3 core design failures that have plagued WvW since GW2 launched.

In case you didn’t know the core design failures:

1) Reduce the direct impact of Server stacking to Match-Ups
2) Allow friends & family to play together from many different Worlds
3) Allow Off-peak capping, but let players to work out a solution themselves

There’s a better long term solution…than the World Linking & Score Manipulation that is being used to fix WvW at the moment…imho

Yours truly,
Diku

For a Better Long Term Solution to WvW – Google Search – wvg world vs globes

Jeknar.6184:

That’s the problem… I really cannot think in somenthing to help lower tiers that isn’t going to promote flocking to a single world in order to receive easy rewards. And as long there are no incantive to play in the lower tiers, people won’t.

The question is why should people flock to low tier? My server is currently T2. Normal days we queue EB and maybe one border if we get lucky. I doubt any other kitten is in that much better shape. What do you think happens when people move? It create a new player on low tiers while somehow still having the player on high tier?!

Its not linking thats failed. Its tiers and their inevitable psychological link to “high = good” and “low = bad”. Get rid of tiers and you have what will help lower tiers.

I’ve always maintained that the whole transfer system is far to cheap and easy.That’s what broke linking.The waiting time to enter WvW and the cost should increase every time you transfer and then reset after a period of time .

The core problem with T4 is with the SF and DH server linkings which lead to low population relative to the other servers. They are so underpopulated that they are always badly outnumbered no matter who the third server in T4 is. This leads to people transferring out of SF and DH to other servers, which causes a vicious circle, making the problem even worse over time.

The only way to escape this vicious circle is to transfer to a server with a decent population. Unless you’re willing to pay the ransom in gems to escape the SF & DH graveyard, you’re stuck in a basically worthless WvW environment. The third T4 server is simply going to blob anything they want, making it impossible to hold territory or launch any meaningful attack.

The players in the SF and DH server groups really need a fix from Anet for the T4 under-population issue. Unfortunately, there hasn’t been any plan communicated or timeline given, so we have no idea when, or even if, the problem will ever get solved. This problem has been persisting for months and we really need a fix ASAP.

This. The current t4 situation is awful for anyone stuck in it. The server that shouldn’t be there wants out, so tries not to bleed amy more glicko. The other two want to play and have fun with a similar sized population. But as long as there is a risk of being stuck there, that third server isn’t going to be able to do that.

I know things were bad with the quad server, but Anet shouldn’t have inflated their match making glicko. They should have broken up the quad server instead.

linking is great for most tiers, which is an improvement for the statistical majority of players

Formerly t1 was the only somewhat close tier in population. Now, having done t2/t3 extensively, those are MUCH closer than they used to be. The overwhelming majority of the populaton is in tier 1-3, so I don’t know how it can be considered a failure.

The stomping in t4 (if it really is that, I haven’t seen it) is not something new. Formerly, it was common in t2-t4 for one or more of those tiers to have as much or worse of a stomping, and they were similarly Glicko locked. For all practical purposes, they’ve made more tiers closer and less tiers stomps.

A server cannot compete because people transfered off because the server cannot compete.

The cycle continues…

I still can’t play with any of my friends because everyone is scattered on different tiers.

The linking system is a limited concept, it fixes population but it doesn’t address the problem of the community being separated by abstract server walls.

Xillllix.3485:

I still can’t play with any of my friends because everyone is scattered on different tiers.

The linking system is a limited concept, it fixes population but it doesn’t address the problem of the community being separated by abstract server walls.

It barelly fixes population, while they allow that variable to change anytime and bork up the links.
So something needs to be changed on wvw to avoid completelly these situations.

Pinko.2076:

linking is great for most tiers, which is an improvement for the statistical majority of players

Formerly t1 was the only somewhat close tier in population. Now, having done t2/t3 extensively, those are MUCH closer than they used to be. The overwhelming majority of the populaton is in tier 1-3, so I don’t know how it can be considered a failure.

The stomping in t4 (if it really is that, I haven’t seen it) is not something new. Formerly, it was common in t2-t4 for one or more of those tiers to have as much or worse of a stomping, and they were similarly Glicko locked. For all practical purposes, they’ve made more tiers closer and less tiers stomps.

It’s not really, it’s ok for most host servers, not so much the linked servers who may be tossed down into the depths of T4 next round. Everyone seems to forget that there is more then the host servers who are affected by linking. It’s a crap shoot where the linked servers will end up when re-links happen. Also will Anet drop the ball again ? I’m just going to assume yes because that’s one thing you can count on from Anet.

I dont understand, why getting heavily populated server a guest server as Deso / FSP etc [EU]? Why not get a weak server 2 or more linking server as the France Vizunah Square & Arborstone & Fort Ranik?

The weak servers are stuck in the lower Tier, which is also so remained without further linking partner. So they will lose more and more ppl on host server. It would be interesting if T6 / T5 server get the chance and come in higher T. So there would be more different MU’s every week.

an example:

- First linking Drakkar Lake & Miller’s Sound (DE)
- Second Abaddon’s Mouth & Miller’s Sound (DE)

The next (week) most probably will be DL + Miller´s and they will start again in T6, and the other two opponent have no chance in this MU. That will be just frustrating for more 2 month and more few ppl will leave server or quit the game.

Pls Anet, do something

I made a post here too https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Slow-death-of-the-forgotten-Guest-server/first#post6288188

sry for my bad english.

And imagine the outcry on the forums, when servers get merged together. People and guilds losing their identity in one big smash. The linking is a termporary merge that gives the partners the possibilty to keep their own identity. It is clearly a good solution.

Transfer cost increase and more time sitting out? No. Why would you propose that? If people want to transfer, then let them transfer to play somewhere else. Nobody should be forced to stay somewhere if he/she doesn’t want to and nobody should be “shut” out of wvw just because he/she transfered.

I think the linkage worked best in situations, where both servers are equally strong and both bring something to the table. I as SBI am really sad to lose HoD as a link as it worked out great and we learned to work together better over time. I am not sure how it worked out where a lot of small servers get put together.

Like already someone proposed: if Arenanet sees a linkage not working out as intended in terms of balanced matchups (for example because a server goes down or up a tier), then it should be possible for them to change server linkage.

Guess this means that Sorrow’s Furnace and Darkhaven and associated servers in T4 NA will never be able to hold out and maybe die someday. Noted.

Most people I know now go to EotM if they need the Gift of Battle, it’s more populated. I only started playing WvW recently, mostly because I wanted to add to our server’s meager numbers in the Borderlands and help out whenever I can. It’s an almost futile effort to be honest, no matter what time of the day. Linking may have its benefits, but it sure screwed us lower populated servers all the way to doomsville.

It’s sad too, because I honestly enjoyed the mass group PvP element there, and I did meet a lot of server friends who I enjoyed talking to while we got our kitten kicked and our main keep camped.

sigh There, finally I get to express my worries and lamentations. If WvW is truly dead, then I don’t mind anymore, I had my fun

Rink.6108:

And imagine the outcry on the forums, when servers get merged together. People and guilds losing their identity in one big smash.

Hahaha… we would see very little outcry, mark my words. The identity of parasite servers was lost in the first month of linking when Anet did nothing to improve their ingame WvW visibility (and still hasnt done anything). They mean nothing other than a proxy way of playing on the primary server.

@Kurowolfe SF and DH will never be tier1 servers, if they don’t get a lot of transfers (we have seen other servers get stacked in the past as well though). But if the matchups are balanced, then they should be able to have a fighting chance to win your matchup without having to face blobs as big as in tier1. And balanced matchups is all they need to make wvw fun again, or not?

@Dawdler: yea, small servers should rather be linked with other small servers, but I am not sure if that works out if you put together more than 3 servers (I am not CD). I am sure the outcry would be very significant if permanent merges were to happen and small servers just get “absorbed” completely. Many people dislike particular servers strongly after years of fighting bloody battles against them and thei identification with their own server is what keeps many players playing in wvw. Of course this problems appear in linkage as well to some degree, but it is always temporary and you keep your server identity with it.

Rink.6108:

@Kurowolfe SF and DH will never be tier1 servers, if they don’t get a lot of transfers (we have seen other servers get stacked in the past as well though). But if the matchups are balanced, then they should be able to have a fighting chance to win your matchup without having to face blobs as big as in tier1. And balanced matchups is all they need to make wvw fun again, or not?

I don’t mind not being in T1, I just wished the average number of players in each of the three sides in T4 at any one time be roughly equal. Right now, DH and SF is equal, so it’s an equal matchup between the two, but the third server(s), no matter what it is, almost always has at least 3-4 times the numbers for the other two, and usually 7x or more. Even in EotM it’s a rather similar situation. That Outnumbered buff is almost permanent for us xD

Balanced match-ups would be nice, yeah, but face it: judging from what I read so far, it’ll never happen. C’est la vie

This situation has been absolutely forseeable. Anet should have a lot of experience with the “bandwaggoning” problem throughout the years. But this is only another example of how distracted the devs are from their own game.

Well, the problem may be that in the system right now there is not enough flexibility to change the linking of servers after they have been done. If arenanet were to change this fact and react on clear disadvantages of servers, then it would not be so bad. So they could have taken servers out of the CD-bunch and given them to DH or YB (when they were higher tier) for example to even it out.
But yea, I am SBI and I know exactly what you mean with DH and SF being outnumbered and we had no fun in smashing you guys to the ground just to minimize our pointloss and not getting stuck down there with you both.

only fix is to redesign to a very simple 3 way faction with several map for factions to control.
After that start addinf non gimmick features to the game mode when possible to slowly growth.

Thelgar.7214:

Link guild progression to servers and reset it with every move. The guild moves are what throw things out of balance.

This is a brilliant idea to stop server hopping. You are absolutely correct that this is the biggest issue affecting WvW imbalance at present. It’s not the single player transfers that is causing the problem It’s the huge guild hopping servers that is doing it. How can ANet be expected to fix WvW imbalance issues while huge guilds are moving at will between servers? Not to mention the fact that the current (extremely prevalent) practice of servers “buying” guilds is wrong and needs to stop. There needs to be a HUGE penalty for guild moves between servers. Drop their guild hall by, oh, say 20 levels, and they will be thinking twice about server hopping, I’ll bet!