Guild Wars 2

Beyond the terrible season 1, I think a great deal of the population couldn’t handle the rewards anet gave out to everyone.

The maps have been repeating itself for 1 year with no additional strategies or items, or even unique rewards. PVE always comes first and WvW comes later. My experience with things has been mostly awful, simply because it’s either a population imbalance or zerg pvd.

Can we have better ideas and rewards to get more people to play wvw? And stop rewarding us with absolutely dismal loot, I think tons of us have made it clear into the 400+ posts topic.

I would say PvE content has stolen a burnt out audience. When Edges of the Mists hits, the population will return and likely even before then. Everyone is grabbing the free loot right now.

From what I have seen everyone is severely burnt out. I was playing 100+ hours a week and yeah, well there gets a point. Its definitely a direct result of leagues. I assume most will bounce back and get into it soon. But Im guessing there were some who were on the verge of burnout prior to leagues who burnt out for good and aren’t coming back now.

What did you expect? With new and “awesome” matchup mechanics some servers are bound to play with same opponentsover and over again. This is not even funny.

OFC terrible rewards after Season 1 are also guilty but not as much as many think. For me it was just some free APs. If I count all I dropped during whole Season 1 it was more than enough for reward.

I love playing the same two servers every week, it sure beats the lopsided match-ups we had in leagues, where someone was always up 200k.

Typhus.3502:

I love playing the same two servers every week, it sure beats the lopsided match-ups we had in leagues, where someone was always up 200k.

Huh? What is so interesting in fighting same guilds (tactics, behaviours, zergs) all the time? I mean, anyone who is WvW regular already knows their most common enemies tactics by heart butif you fight same servers week after week after week it becomes soooo boring.

On my server some people decided to give up on wvw (or the game) just because of this.

After season 1 and with the Wintersday stuff out people are taking breaks. This was to be expected.

Typhus.3502:

I love playing the same two servers every week, it sure beats the lopsided match-ups we had in leagues, where someone was always up 200k.

But aren’t you still playing the same two servers week after week as you were in season?

Let us not forget RL things like finals and the holidays will have an affect on the pop over the next couple of weeks too.

People took “natural” breaks from WvW all along, with the end of Season 1 a sense of “finality” sort of prevailed, couple that with the news that Season 2 would be after a break, and the release of PVE/Xmas stuffs and it becomes a bit more clear.

You also have to remember there were a lot of servers and people on those servers that went bat crazy and grinded like there was no tomorrow for winning coverage PPT Wars 2, so now they are likely pretty burned out.

Bartas.4908:

Typhus.3502:

I love playing the same two servers every week, it sure beats the lopsided match-ups we had in leagues, where someone was always up 200k.

Huh? What is so interesting in fighting same guilds (tactics, behaviours, zergs) all the time? I mean, anyone who is WvW regular already knows their most common enemies tactics by heart butif you fight same servers week after week after week it becomes soooo boring.

On my server some people decided to give up on wvw (or the game) just because of this.

he is from blackgate. his server will either win by 200k points, or they will fight both other tier 1 servers and still win still without any challenge but by less of a margin; therefore, itll be a more entertaining matchup for him.

its not really appropriate to take the experience of blackgate into consideration when discussing general wvw experiences, as they are more of an anomaly than the rule.

wvw lost population because the season is over. it will be like it has always been: dropping everytime some pve crap launches, spiking temporarily for Edge of the Mists and maybe Season 2, before disappearing completely when ESO launches in april (which is pretty soon in the grand scheme of things). Not that ESO will be great or anything, but for the WvW population, it only has to rise above the low GW2 bar of near-zero wvw development.

Give it time, they will return. The holidays are here, finals for students, some league burnout and new content all contribute.

Cassocaster.4576:

I would say PvE content has stolen a burnt out audience. When Edges of the Mists hits, the population will return and likely even before then. Everyone is grabbing the free loot right now.

Maybe. There is a lot of promise to edge of the mists, but also a lot of needed changes. Right now it is like a WvW version of skyhammer and if you play PvP, you know the feedback related to that. I believe they are going to put in more railings and so forth to combat that.

The map itself has a lot more PvE elements than the current maps from home section buffs to wondering NPCs. To me the map seems more like something to do while waiting for a queue than a map that is targeted for “prime time”. Of course with the lack of WvW population right now, I doubt queues are an issue.

Lack of new content is the problem…

Even with the new map, they need new siege, new traps, new rewards, better balance, and an update to the old maps.

Eh, it’s holiday time.

This time of year in most games shows a decrease in numbers. (A trend I’ve noticed DJing for online games. Numbers always go down in December) You’ve got the normal holiday stuff topped off with quite a few schools / colleges are in semester finals this week.

Combine it with two new living world sets of achievements for people to horde, ascended armor to craft and new “challenges” in fractals and of course you’re going to see WvW numbers dwindle a little.

Then add in that we’re just coming off Season 1 where a lot of people busted their balls to keep their server rank up, and probably burned out a little doing it. Now that we’re back to ‘regular old WvW’, it’s a good time to go outside and throw real snowballs at people. (As an adult, this never gets old… if only it would actually snow…)

That said, I’m still seeing full zergs in our borderlands most nights (not necessarily ours), and still spending time in queues on TC, just not as long as it was two weeks ago.

Edit: Give it a few weeks, and it’ll be back in full swing again, I’m betting.

That’s a bit of a sky is falling outlook I think, and agree with those here that say it’s a combination of a post-Season 1 hangover, the Winter event, and holidays/finals. Try to think back to a few weeks before Season 1 started, add in the holiday season and there you have it. Those that enjoy WvW for what it is will always be around, with peaks and valleys in participation depending on what it going on. Those that were playing just for Season 1 or the achievements/hope for epic loots we likely won’t see until Season 2 if at all.

Reasons why WvW participation might be declining:

1- Total frustration with imbalanced matches and no action from ANet to fix it after more than a year. Bonus points for a stillborn population CDI with over 1,100 player comments that ANet couldn’t be bothered to summarize or even acknowledge.

2- Expanding emphasis by ANet on zerg mechanics for playstyle, PPT, and individual rewards. The hive mentality gets boring for anyone after a while.

3- As the result of #2 above and the ill-advised league system, mass player migrations causing lag and long queues on top tier servers and barren wastelands on low tier servers … neither of which makes for viable game play.

4- Total lack of new maps or meaningful new content. The Edge of the Mists might have some promise, but we don’t have even an approximate timetable for it and in any case it’s pretty sad that what was intended as merely an overflow distraction sounds more interesting than anything else that has been added to the game since launch.

5- Continued indifference by the devs to the overall plight of WvW. Why should anyone stick around when thus far the most likely action from any of the “collaboration” discussions is that we might see multiple colors for commander tags.

I can’t actually tell whether or not overall WvW participation has declined or not since I don’t hop servers, but I can categorically say that the breadth of the play style has steadily eroded over the past year. Just about everything that ANet has changed in WvW since launch has narrowed the focus of matches. Hardly anybody cares about defending, and most players don’t even care about PPT anymore. I remember some truly exciting mass warfare from last winter, with commanders plotting strategies to catch opposing servers off guard and intense battles over just about every piece of real estate. But little of that happens anymore and over the last several months players had to resort to creating their own game modes to keep things interesting … while ANet merely resorted to gimmick rewards to draw otherwise disinterested PvE’ers into WvW so they could claim high participation.

WvW might still be floating, but it’s taking on water and there other boats are on the horizon that look far more promising … if for no other reason than the fact that the developers of those other boats have studied the leaks in this one and are working hard to avoid them. Whatever participation WvW retains can almost solely be credited to the fact that there currently is no other viable option. ANet has had this entire past year to learn from their mistakes, work closely enough with players to fix them and develop solid user loyalty, and head off the challenge from the new games. But they didn’t … and they still aren’t. Every single item I listed above, with the possible (and indeterminate) exception of EOTM, is still sitting in an inactive file somewhere.

Cactus.2710:

Hardly anybody cares about defending, and most players don’t even care about PPT anymore.

Aww man you had me until that line…Most of the people that do not care about PPT anymore is because there is a point in the player-evolution of WvW that you realize that PPT is a failed metric….

Just like the winning team in PVP, the winning team in WvW is not necessarily the best (skill, strategy, player wise). PPT = Who held the most points during the week for the longest, 90%+ of the time that goes to the server with the biggest population in WvW that particular week.

At least in PvP the matches are somewhat balanced, just think of what people would say about the “scoreboard” in PvP if you had 15v5 or 3v10s…..All you need is enough people to stand in those circles bro, with that in mind that is why many people could care less about PPT.

Double the size of each world and merge the lowest ranked server with the highest ranked server each week(in wvw only). The second highest ranked server with the second lowest ranked server etc etc. This should be less boring for those who win or who lose all the time.

Vabbi is dying. Oh well. xD

Our population is about the same as it was a month prior to league start. Heavy weekend and NA prime attendance with some OCX. I think world overall is just stale right now, especially with the new matching system. You are virtually guaranteed fighting the same 2-4 servers over extended periods until the bottom tiers grow or top tiers fall. Naturally people will move on to other games or just stop playing when you have little to no new content for people who enjoy WvW or PvP game modes. As someone who used to enjoy world prior to league, I’ve found that post league I really have little desire to be there most nights. The only reason I go out for extended periods is to play with my guild and the friends I’ve made in world.

Season 1 hangover, pve farming, holidays, school finals, anything else I forgot?

bob.8632:

Cactus.2710:

Hardly anybody cares about defending, and most players don’t even care about PPT anymore.

Aww man you had me until that line…Most of the people that do not care about PPT anymore is because there is a point in the player-evolution of WvW that you realize that PPT is a failed metric….

Just like the winning team in PVP, the winning team in WvW is not necessarily the best (skill, strategy, player wise). PPT = Who held the most points during the week for the longest, 90%+ of the time that goes to the server with the biggest population in WvW that particular week.

At least in PvP the matches are somewhat balanced, just think of what people would say about the “scoreboard” in PvP if you had 15v5 or 3v10s…..All you need is enough people to stand in those circles bro, with that in mind that is why many people could care less about PPT.

I never said that PPT wasn’t a failed metric. PPT clearly IS a failed metric … precisely, as you say, because population and coverage trumps EVERYTHING else. However, WvW was designed around PPT under the erroneous assumption that matches WOULD be more or less balanced (how ANet assumed that would remain the case is beyond me) and the fact that nobody gives a rat’s kitten about PPT anymore is pretty stark evidence of the game’s failure. That’s what I was trying to point out.

Cactus.2710:

bob.8632:

Cactus.2710:

Hardly anybody cares about defending, and most players don’t even care about PPT anymore.

Aww man you had me until that line…Most of the people that do not care about PPT anymore is because there is a point in the player-evolution of WvW that you realize that PPT is a failed metric….

Just like the winning team in PVP, the winning team in WvW is not necessarily the best (skill, strategy, player wise). PPT = Who held the most points during the week for the longest, 90%+ of the time that goes to the server with the biggest population in WvW that particular week.

At least in PvP the matches are somewhat balanced, just think of what people would say about the “scoreboard” in PvP if you had 15v5 or 3v10s…..All you need is enough people to stand in those circles bro, with that in mind that is why many people could care less about PPT.

I never said that PPT wasn’t a failed metric. PPT clearly IS a failed metric … precisely, as you say, because population and coverage trumps EVERYTHING else. However, WvW was designed around PPT under the erroneous assumption that matches WOULD be more or less balanced (how ANet assumed that would remain the case is beyond me) and the fact that nobody gives a rat’s kitten about PPT anymore is pretty stark evidence of the game’s failure. That’s what I was trying to point out.

Agreed, in that context your quote makes much more sense. I have yet to understand why this sense of “we understood WvW would not be balanced” seems to insinuate that they are OK with these lopsided blowout matches…Or moreover, why they thought this would be “fun” for the playerbase.

One too many straws I guess…

ANet has done next to nothing to get the server issues resolved so the dying servers keep on dying and the bloated servers just keep on piling on the frustrations.

Add to that we’ve just seen the end of our first WvW season, something a lot of players burned themselves out on to bring home the gold for their own server only to be kicked in the [censored] by ANet when it came time to reward them. Not to mention that the general consensus for the whole process has been abysmal. This forum, reddit, 4chan, guru; did anyone like the season?

We then have horrible class balance with HUGE gaps of time between attempts to fix it and those attempts are half hearted at best?

Sometimes I wonder if ANet is tanking their game on purpose. But in all reality I think people are just burned out and let down by the WvW season. As some others have said, it’s also the holiday season so people may bounce back.

But come new year if ANet doesn’t have real server transfers, real attempts at leveling the playing field for class balance, and introduce something for us to do other than zerg all day you may as well start looking for the next thing.

bob.8632:

Agreed, in that context your quote makes much more sense. I have yet to understand why this sense of “we understood WvW would not be balanced” seems to insinuate that they are OK with these lopsided blowout matches…Or moreover, why they thought this would be “fun” for the playerbase.

I don’t think they’ve said they are OK with the lopsided blowout matches. I think helping avoid these is entirely what the recent post about reducing variance in the matching was to help avoid.

The biggest problem with the blowout matches seems to be a social one. With guilds being able to easily server transfer, it gives more incentives to hop servers then it does to grow a server community. There’s far less work that way.

I’m not certain at this point if there is really a fix for it, other then to disincentive stacking somehow?

Cactus.2710:

bob.8632:

Cactus.2710:

Hardly anybody cares about defending, and most players don’t even care about PPT anymore.

Aww man you had me until that line…Most of the people that do not care about PPT anymore is because there is a point in the player-evolution of WvW that you realize that PPT is a failed metric….

Just like the winning team in PVP, the winning team in WvW is not necessarily the best (skill, strategy, player wise). PPT = Who held the most points during the week for the longest, 90%+ of the time that goes to the server with the biggest population in WvW that particular week.

At least in PvP the matches are somewhat balanced, just think of what people would say about the “scoreboard” in PvP if you had 15v5 or 3v10s…..All you need is enough people to stand in those circles bro, with that in mind that is why many people could care less about PPT.

I never said that PPT wasn’t a failed metric. PPT clearly IS a failed metric … precisely, as you say, because population and coverage trumps EVERYTHING else. However, WvW was designed around PPT under the erroneous assumption that matches WOULD be more or less balanced (how ANet assumed that would remain the case is beyond me) and the fact that nobody gives a rat’s kitten about PPT anymore is pretty stark evidence of the game’s failure. That’s what I was trying to point out.

Idk if anet thought it would stay balanced as much as they didn’t think people would take it very seriously. From the start they said it was designed to be casual

Valik Shin.9027:

Cactus.2710:

bob.8632:

Cactus.2710:

Hardly anybody cares about defending, and most players don’t even care about PPT anymore.

Aww man you had me until that line…Most of the people that do not care about PPT anymore is because there is a point in the player-evolution of WvW that you realize that PPT is a failed metric….

Just like the winning team in PVP, the winning team in WvW is not necessarily the best (skill, strategy, player wise). PPT = Who held the most points during the week for the longest, 90%+ of the time that goes to the server with the biggest population in WvW that particular week.

At least in PvP the matches are somewhat balanced, just think of what people would say about the “scoreboard” in PvP if you had 15v5 or 3v10s…..All you need is enough people to stand in those circles bro, with that in mind that is why many people could care less about PPT.

I never said that PPT wasn’t a failed metric. PPT clearly IS a failed metric … precisely, as you say, because population and coverage trumps EVERYTHING else. However, WvW was designed around PPT under the erroneous assumption that matches WOULD be more or less balanced (how ANet assumed that would remain the case is beyond me) and the fact that nobody gives a rat’s kitten about PPT anymore is pretty stark evidence of the game’s failure. That’s what I was trying to point out.

Idk if anet thought it would stay balanced as much as they didn’t think people would take it very seriously. From the start they said it was designed to be casual

Well, it’s a pretty sad state of affairs for the players to take the game more seriously than the developers do, and for the players to care more whether it survives or not. To be honest, I think the original vision for GW2 did include a solid emphasis on WvW … I just don’t think the same people are in control any more and I think ANet’s current attitude toward WvW can be more accurately described as damage control rather than sincere reform.

nirvana.8245:

From what I have seen everyone is severely burnt out. I was playing 100+ hours a week and yeah, well there gets a point. Its definitely a direct result of leagues. I assume most will bounce back and get into it soon. But Im guessing there were some who were on the verge of burnout prior to leagues who burnt out for good and aren’t coming back now.

The second one is me

Typhus.3502:

I love playing the same two servers every week, it sure beats the lopsided match-ups we had in leagues, where someone was always up 200k.

Yes, JQ enjoys beating on BG

If Anet really want the WvW mode to survive they need to fix the two cores thing:
1)Population Difference & Server
2)Blobbing More ppl win mechanism

The first problem can be done by “Merging” all the small servers so that they can be more competitive to T1 and T2 thus we are having more opponents to fight. I’m sure there are many good wvw guilds out there in those servers but they’re just too spread out and their server population cant handle the big guy. Merge them, solve everything. Give competition to T1-2 more.

Blobbing win is lame mechanism. More ppl always win also lame. I knew that coordinated small groups can win bigger numbers that’s for sure. But to the point where 20man have no possible way to beat 60man that’s just killing all the meta. You need to have meta that force ppl to split around so that positioning will be more important than just stack stack stack and collide like melee train. I think most of the guilds are bored with the current stacking meta already. Anet need to penalised the stacking more, give more important to AoE/Range so that new meta can be emerge.

I think Season One burned alot of people, personally I put in hours 24/7 towards helping my community Desolation, which saw alot of ups and downs throughout the year, it finally took it’s toll on me.

The Holidays are also coming up so it’s a good time for everyone to take a break, wvw will always be there for us once we’re done celebrating and relaxing, with family and friends.

While they’ve brought additions like the end of Culling, World Ranks, Bloodlust Buff and the new GvG arena, the meta-game haven’t changed much if at all.
From a PVP standpoint there’s a lack of balance and diversity towards wvw.
Even though you may have the choice of Roaming or Zerging, it’s just that you’ll likely be facing the same Builds/Professions while roaming, aswell as the same blobs and the Guild Groups that follow the typical meta.
The difference you’ll find is in coordination, communication and Skill-Level, but everyday wvw is overall is lacking in “variety” in it’s gameplay.

Even if you play for the PPT or not with these population imbalances, I’d be honestly surprised if it didn’t get a little stale.
After being given a lease of life (Short or Long) from the Leagues, we’ve only ended up with divisions between the wvw playerbase thanks to the queues and lag it brought.

Then there’s the flaming, trolling and bad Sportsmanship due to the “Fiery” competitiveness that the Leagues brought between certain Server communities over the “Competition”, it’s left a bit of a bitter taste for me.

Speaking strictly from SoR vantage point, I’ve seen a rather large shift in our player base from WvW to sPvP. Every hotjoin I go into has at least 2-3 SoR players and I see quite a bit of BG/JQ players in there as well.

I think people are starting to realize that if you’re in it for the fights, sPvP is much better than WvW.

Looks about the same as before seasons…

Cactus.2710:

Reasons why WvW participation might be declining:

Your perseverance (or lack of anything better to engage with) amazes me. Its been over a year, let it go already. Though your exaggerations never cease to amaze and amuse.

Raven.9603:

wvw lost population because the season is over. it will be like it has always been: dropping everytime some pve crap launches, spiking temporarily for Edge of the Mists and maybe Season 2, before disappearing completely when ESO launches in april (which is pretty soon in the grand scheme of things). Not that ESO will be great or anything, but for the WvW population, it only has to rise above the low GW2 bar of near-zero wvw development.

It’s bar does not rise above.

Vena.8436:

Looks about the same as before seasons…

Cactus.2710:

Reasons why WvW participation might be declining:

Your perseverance (or lack of anything better to engage with) amazes me. Its been over a year, let it go already. Though your exaggerations never cease to amaze and amuse.

Not as much as your persistently sycophantic support of ANet amazes me.

If you read my comment with anything approaching moderate comprehension you’ll notice that I didn’t say that WvW participation was declining … and in fact I stated that I couldn’t tell if it was or if it wasn’t because I play on such a low pop server. I simply listed some major issues in the game that in my opinion were the most likely negative factors if indeed participation was declining as the OP suggested. Please describe where I exaggerated anything in the five items I listed, or for that matter in any other part of what I wrote. Now THAT should be amusing.

Poxheart.2845:

Raven.9603:

wvw lost population because the season is over. it will be like it has always been: dropping everytime some pve crap launches, spiking temporarily for Edge of the Mists and maybe Season 2, before disappearing completely when ESO launches in april (which is pretty soon in the grand scheme of things). Not that ESO will be great or anything, but for the WvW population, it only has to rise above the low GW2 bar of near-zero wvw development.

It’s bar does not rise above.

How so? If I understand the situation correctly, the TESO equivalent of WvW (the Alliance wars) hasn’t even been included in the beta yet. So on what exactly do you base your comment?

I’m going to put the odds at 100:1 that you don’t reply with anything specific.

Cactus,

they did have a beta that included the AvA system, at least the begining of it. Someone I work it was in it. Much closer to DAoC system then to the GW2 version

Well after season 1 ended, many players were burnt out with WvW and needed a break. A lot put a lot of extra hours in and at odd times!

As soon as season 1 ended I have took a break, just do 1 day a week to get my 3 bonus chests.

When the wxp is account bound, new map comes out or season 2 starts then I will be in WvW 4-8 hours a day.

yeah. wvw need more personal reward to motivate players. the whole thing is pointless now

From a Desolation (EU) perspective during my usual playtime it would seem our WvW population is down to 1/3 of what it was a month ago. Granted it’s getting closer to holidays and people who work are doing all the end year crap, however this doesn’t bode well.

It’s gettnig boring. Always the same… that maybe could be a reason why people stop playing. I am not stopping completely. But after the boring league season 1 where I played a lot I need a break now. And with christmas and the Steam christmas sale soon I need to play tons of other games so I’m only logging in to do the daily for laurel – and because I hate walking around a lot without having fun just do to the PvE daily I just do the PvP daily(even better now with better PvP rewards). So no WvW for maybe next 1-2 months for me. I hope ArenaNet can fix a few of the important issues in this time.

Now is good time play www because there is less PPT heros.

MarzAttakz.9608:

From a Desolation (EU) perspective during my usual playtime it would seem our WvW population is down to 1/3 of what it was a month ago. Granted it’s getting closer to holidays and people who work are doing all the end year crap, however this doesn’t bode well.

From an UW perspective.. that’s great news cos now we might only be facing 10v1 next time we meet you

On a serious note, if you guys are seeing that kind of drop off for very real life intrusive reasons, I hate to think what that bodes for UW…. I guess for me it was a the right time to pull away from GW2, just some casual logging for daily and LS stuff occasionally now for me and my guild

Cactus.2710:

Poxheart.2845:

Raven.9603:

wvw lost population because the season is over. it will be like it has always been: dropping everytime some pve crap launches, spiking temporarily for Edge of the Mists and maybe Season 2, before disappearing completely when ESO launches in april (which is pretty soon in the grand scheme of things). Not that ESO will be great or anything, but for the WvW population, it only has to rise above the low GW2 bar of near-zero wvw development.

It’s bar does not rise above.

How so? If I understand the situation correctly, the TESO equivalent of WvW (the Alliance wars) hasn’t even been included in the beta yet. So on what exactly do you base your comment?

I’m going to put the odds at 100:1 that you don’t reply with anything specific.

I’ve played the ESO equivalent of WvW at max level and there is a myriad of reasons for my comment, but going into specifics would get my post deleted (I’ve seen it happen to others). I will say that there was as much, if not more, zerging as in GW2.

wvw population declined? you must be joking………. (at least in my server)
the population of wvw in my server is nearly doubled overnight after the announcement of this week matchup. those kittens and fair weather methhead are breeding like rabbits in all maps.

at last after almost 3 month of hard matchup we finally got a very light one, but i honestly dont enjoy it because people are karma training everywhere and in the end you cant even get a decent fight if you dont join the zerg ( which is revolting)

Poxheart.2845:

Cactus.2710:

Poxheart.2845:

Raven.9603:

wvw lost population because the season is over. it will be like it has always been: dropping everytime some pve crap launches, spiking temporarily for Edge of the Mists and maybe Season 2, before disappearing completely when ESO launches in april (which is pretty soon in the grand scheme of things). Not that ESO will be great or anything, but for the WvW population, it only has to rise above the low GW2 bar of near-zero wvw development.

It’s bar does not rise above.

How so? If I understand the situation correctly, the TESO equivalent of WvW (the Alliance wars) hasn’t even been included in the beta yet. So on what exactly do you base your comment?

I’m going to put the odds at 100:1 that you don’t reply with anything specific.

I’ve played the ESO equivalent of WvW at max level and there is a myriad of reasons for my comment, but going into specifics would get my post deleted (I’ve seen it happen to others). I will say that there was as much, if not more, zerging as in GW2.

There has been heavy zerging in every beta/alpha I have ever played because most folks have no idea how the game works, how their class works, etc. It does not necessarily reflect real end game play.

That said I have no faith that a PvE game with tacked on PvP is going to be all that amazing, but let’s face it GW2 is a PvE game with tacked on PvP as well and sometimes just learning a new game system makes it worth playing even if the end game is no different than GW2s.

World vs World is going to slowly become as casual as Anet intended it to be. Just a matter of time now. I hope I’m wrong. I would gladly eat my words to be wrong.

Poxheart.2845:

Cactus.2710:

Poxheart.2845:

Raven.9603:

wvw lost population because the season is over. it will be like it has always been: dropping everytime some pve crap launches, spiking temporarily for Edge of the Mists and maybe Season 2, before disappearing completely when ESO launches in april (which is pretty soon in the grand scheme of things). Not that ESO will be great or anything, but for the WvW population, it only has to rise above the low GW2 bar of near-zero wvw development.

It’s bar does not rise above.

How so? If I understand the situation correctly, the TESO equivalent of WvW (the Alliance wars) hasn’t even been included in the beta yet. So on what exactly do you base your comment?

I’m going to put the odds at 100:1 that you don’t reply with anything specific.

I’ve played the ESO equivalent of WvW at max level and there is a myriad of reasons for my comment, but going into specifics would get my post deleted (I’ve seen it happen to others). I will say that there was as much, if not more, zerging as in GW2.

Well, at least you responded and I thank you for that. I’d certainly like to hear the specifics of what you think is deficient, though. If you ever decide to post a summary somewhere else you should at least be able to post a link to it here without getting redacted.

Cactus.2710:

Not as much as your persistently sycophantic support of ANet amazes me.

It shouldn’t really amaze you, considering I and my guild are having fun. We’re not blind to the faults of the game but some people here are seriously verging on masochism for how they state their current relationship with the game.

Cactus.2710:

If you read my comment with anything approaching moderate comprehension you’ll notice that I didn’t say that WvW participation was declining … and in fact I stated that I couldn’t tell if it was or if it wasn’t because I play on such a low pop server. I simply listed some major issues in the game that in my opinion were the most likely negative factors if indeed participation was declining as the OP suggested. Please describe where I exaggerated anything in the five items I listed, or for that matter in any other part of what I wrote. Now THAT should be amusing.

I didn’t say you said a word about decline, I was talking about repetition and continuing exaggeration therein. You’ve repeated those points so many times that its boring to even read them at this point. Here let me address your points:

1.) We know, everyone knows. They have tried things (and failed) to keep it competitive. They’ve also said they aren’t going to set up rules that prevent people from playing or harm their ability to play because X > Y. But if you, like every normal person, stopped caring about PPT ages ago and just went out to fight, those imbalances are close to irrelevant.

2.) Expanding emphasis on zerg mechanics? Where? The zerg emphasis for rank (which isn’t even true (you’ll rank faster roaming and tagging everything than actually karma training)) and loot (which also isn’t even true (karmabusting is far, far more lucrative)) has been around for months, they haven’t made it more emphasized. It hasn’t even changed.

3.) Leagues was an odd thing. It got people into WvW for the first time and some of them stayed, but it gave us horrible queue times and the end result was sort of pointless. I’d give you this one as it was a dalliance in total pointlessness considering that the fundamental system is flawed.

4.) You keep repeating this one as if good maps can be made in an afternoon. WAR did that (churning out empty plots of land quickly), and those maps were not only kitten, but helped to just completely kill that terrible pile of crap. Edge is, at the very least, a very carefully designed map that has built on a lot of the flaws of the old maps and improved. Give it a try! There’s some great mechanics in there… though I still miss the yaks.

5.) Now this is just petty. They even gave you a reasons.

There.