Modest Proposals for WVW

Modest Proposals for WVW

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Posted by: Seraph.6853

Seraph.6853

Hi everyone! I’m a commander on Henge of Denravi, NA, who has been playing since release in WvW. I’m also a former game developer (Activision) and animator myself, so I’ve bit of an insight into game development. I’m really excited to see John Corpening actively thinking what WvW can become. Thinking about competitive sports (and the recent Alliances idea) I’ve a few thoughts:

  • Include PVE hourly or major updates

In Guild Wars 1 we occasionally had an update “North America has Defeated Europe” or something to that affect. I really enjoyed this as it gave the PVErs an exact connection with what was happening in Guild Wars. Occasionally those updates would include “Your World has increased X” because of some sort of win.

I imagine in Guild Wars 2, PVErs could see an update such as:
“Your World has lost half of it’s Borderlands, Consider joining the fight!”
or
“Your World has just captured and held Stonemist Castle! Hold it for an hour to increase your vitality!”

Some sort of update that encourages an actual living world. That your actions, or inaction to help defend your Borderlands, could lead to different results in PVE. Of course these would be just above minor advancements – we wouldn’t want to severly overpower someone. Gaining 5% vitality or 10% more gold from holding your own BL or SC seems significant enough to encourage you to join.

  • Outnumbered should do one thing only: Half Supplies needed to build Siege

At the moment Outnumbered is a fundamentally useless attribute (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Outnumbered) given to the smaller side.
More experience won’t help, since as a low level you will not be able to gain any from the blobs destroying you. World Experience won’t help for the same reason; and if you’re coming to WvW to mine/farm you probably would fair better off in PVE (no chance of immediate death.) Magic Find is completely useless in WVW – not because finding great items is bad, but because the point of WVW is competition, not finding loot.

I propose Outnumbered has one feature only: Siege cost 50% to build. A team of 5 players with two Guild Catapults (that’s 5 players, one party, or 50 supplies total) can wreck havoc on a well fortified Borderland. Two Superior Flamerams, 50 supplies total, would also be a frustrating thorn in the side of an Outnumbering force.

  • Quick Squad/Commander Menu on the Top Right of your screen

Squads, in PUG worlds like ours, are vastly underutilized. If a player joined World vs World and there was a quick list of Commanders on the top right, with the option to easily join their squad, then I think we would solve two major problems: What to do in WVW when you first join, and how to build up your Zerg/Squad to run plays.

Of course there would need to be limits, maybe only 5 Commanders can be present at once, maybe a scroll wheel to choose Commanders, maybe just an option to hide the dialog box much like we can hide Dailies. All things to think about.

  • Quick Commander Commands

Something that corresponds to the current Squad commands. Maybe they are actual icons above your main attacks. It can get pretty tough to type “FALL BACK” or “ATTACK” while also trying to attack and coordinate yourself. The Squad tools are awesome, and the icon minimap stuff is handy, but again if no one near you is in your squad, or if you can’t type it out fast enough… well you’re dead.

  • Dual Monitor support for your map

Seriously. Yes I run WVW with Millenium.org open in another window – but it can be late in showing you the latest information. An internal solution would be awesome.

  • Bloodlust should Begin turned ON, not OFF

At no time have I ever seen Bloodlust completely captured before the world battles begin. Often it is after the fact, after everyone owns the map, or a large percentage, that someone chimes in on TeamSpeak “hey we should capture Bloodlust.” My thought: Start Major Bloodlust ON for the defending World, not OFF. This makes it more of an uphill battle for the incoming worlds. For those worlds who are constantly getting run over, this would be a great boon to them. Admittedly for those worlds currently dominating, this would only further solidify their strength.

Perhaps as a counter to this domination, Minor Bloodlust could begin at TWO captures, not three.

  • Show off your World (now Alliance?) support in PVE

Thinking about the recent FIFA World Cup here, how many people showed off their pride for their side during the tournament? I think in PVE you should find a way to show off which World/Alliance you support. Wether it’s an actual banner, perhaps a back item, or even a color trail that could follow you. This is obviously a ton of work, but I feel would further reinforce the camaraderie and community Worlds currently have.

  • When in doubt, eat the enemy children

Because so many of you read your 8th grade reading assignments… ;D

Alright, debate and comment away

:dA:
http://theoryanimation.com
Guardian, Commander Serafael [REV], Henge of Denravi

(edited by Seraph.6853)

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Posted by: Dayra.7405

Dayra.7405

  • Outnumbered should do one thing only: Half Supplies needed to build Siege

I am not sure if half-supplies is right thing, but otherwise I agree with you guerrilla-warface should be supported by outnumberedbuf.
Alternatives for “Half Supplies needed to build Siege” that might be considered
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Outnumbered-Make-It-Useful/4428256

Ceterum censeo SFR esse delendam!

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Posted by: BooHud.2681

BooHud.2681

That is such a good thread title Mr Swift. Ok, lemme think on the rest of your post now …

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Posted by: Theftwind.8976

Theftwind.8976

That is such a good thread title Mr Swift. Ok, lemme think on the rest of your post now …

Lol I was wondering when he was going to get to the part where we eat enemy babies.

Theftwind (HoD)

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Posted by: Seraph.6853

Seraph.6853

That is such a good thread title Mr Swift. Ok, lemme think on the rest of your post now …

Lol I was wondering when he was going to get to the part where we eat enemy babies.

Fixed ;P

:dA:
http://theoryanimation.com
Guardian, Commander Serafael [REV], Henge of Denravi

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Posted by: BooHud.2681

BooHud.2681

That is such a good thread title Mr Swift. Ok, lemme think on the rest of your post now …

Lol I was wondering when he was going to get to the part where we eat enemy babies.

Fixed ;P


nah, it was Dingos I tell you. :P

Happy Thurdsay WvWers!! Rock On …

— The Real Dingoes

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Posted by: Hamster.4861

Hamster.4861

Good ideas seraph!

I agree with many of these ideas, If success in WvW gave server-wide buffs, even in PvE, we would probably see a lot more participation.

as it stands, there’s no real benefit to success in WvW, except for the “world buffs” which are hardly noticeable.

so Anet, there is incentive to do world bosses dungeons and fractals, there is incentive to do PvP (reward tracks), what do we get in WvW besides the joy of slaughtering the hordes of the enemy? basically kitten loot.

Another idea which might be good would be to scale the capture a structure reward based on how upgraded it is. 1 embroidered belt pouch for a paper tower. 2 for reinforced, 3 for fortified.

a fully upgraded and WPed Stonemist could drop 5 embroidered belt pouches, which would put it almost on par with the Karka Queen in terms of the reward. It’s also a lot harder to take a fully upgraded and WPed stonemist than it is to kill the Karka Queen.

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Posted by: Narkodx.1472

Narkodx.1472

Can not argue with any suggestion

+100000

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Posted by: VOLTCIEAGE.3029

VOLTCIEAGE.3029

+1000000 www should be the most rewarding game mode ,cause you have to spend gold,time and it requires huge community coordination

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Posted by: McWolfy.5924

McWolfy.5924

Not bad at all dude!

WSR→Piken→Deso→Piken→FSP→Deso
Just the WvW
R3200+

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Posted by: Seraph.6853

Seraph.6853

Thanks everyone. Hopefully someone at ArenaNet read this and found it useful too

I like the idea that WVW (or AVA if it comes to that) should be the ultimate battle, where a lot is lost (1 gold per guild cata!) and a lot can be gained (Hamster.4861 has some great ideas there)

:D

:dA:
http://theoryanimation.com
Guardian, Commander Serafael [REV], Henge of Denravi

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Posted by: BooHud.2681

BooHud.2681

Thanks everyone. Hopefully someone at ArenaNet read this and found it useful too

I like the idea that WVW (or AVA if it comes to that) should be the ultimate battle, where a lot is lost (1 gold per guild cata!) and a lot can be gained (Hamster.4861 has some great ideas there)

:D


+1 this in all seriousness. And at the risk of being trolly (but with the best of intentions), I also hope someone at ArenaNet has seriously considered the thoughts expressed here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Proposal-PvP-Map-Rotation-for-Borderlands

There are excellent existing physics mechanics (see below) that could be adaptively reused (IP law OP — Embrace Simplicity) to make wvw a fresh and lively experience:

-Vigil Megalazer/Skyhammer Cannon for defensive play
-Tequalt/Skyhammer Launch pads for offensive play
- Quicksand from Drytop for guerilla tactics
- Power Keg (Angvat’s Trove) + Bridge Destruction (ETOM) for offensive play

All should obviously come at an appropriate price (commanders stop being entirely whiney about wanting things for nothing, Anet needs a viable business model too. And its team does apparently create beloved products. They deserve a fair ROI for this. Economics killed Diablo, don’t get so grouchy that it kills gw2 as well).

(edited by BooHud.2681)

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Posted by: Specs.2195

Specs.2195

Some really good ideas here – as a GW1 player, I think the wvw updates / announcements are a great idea.

Outnumbered is also a good suggestion – many people agree that this has been a big problem for a long time.

I agree that there should be better ways to show your wvw pride and time/commitment that players put in (shameless plug for my ideas here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/WvW-rewards-suggestions/first#post4434086)

There is no signature here.

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Posted by: Fysem.9631

Fysem.9631

A better proposal would be new WvWvW Maps(expanding map sizes), greater rewards system for smaller groups and defiantly some system of advancement for people that enjoy WvWvW more than PvE. WvWvW pretty much offers nothing for your character advancement, but I don’t know why we even post our opinions anymore. It’s not like Anet will even do something about it. Oh Wait, there fix for all the WvWvW problems would be selling a new weapon/ armor skin in there Gem Store.

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Posted by: loneknight.8425

loneknight.8425

That’s not modest… it’s GREAT proposals, especially half supplies and bloodlust on by default

Of course, eating enemies’ firstborns for bonus stats is a big plus

The thief who did dat – Crystal Desert

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Posted by: Sube Dai.8496

Sube Dai.8496

Hi everyone! I’m a commander on Henge of Denravi, NA, who has been playing since release in WvW. I’m also a former game developer (Activision) and animator myself, so I’ve bit of an insight into game development. I’m really excited to see John Corpening actively thinking what WvW can become. Thinking about competitive sports (and the recent Alliances idea) I’ve a few thoughts:

  • Include PVE hourly or major updates

In Guild Wars 1 we occasionally had an update “North America has Defeated Europe” or something to that affect. I really enjoyed this as it gave the PVErs an exact connection with what was happening in Guild Wars. Occasionally those updates would include “Your World has increased X” because of some sort of win.

I imagine in Guild Wars 2, PVErs could see an update such as:
“Your World has lost half of it’s Borderlands, Consider joining the fight!”
or
“Your World has just captured and held Stonemist Castle! Hold it for an hour to increase your vitality!”

Some sort of update that encourages an actual living world. That your actions, or inaction to help defend your Borderlands, could lead to different results in PVE. Of course these would be just above minor advancements – we wouldn’t want to severly overpower someone. Gaining 5% vitality or 10% more gold from holding your own BL or SC seems significant enough to encourage you to join.

Alright, debate and comment away

This one is a great suggestion, and should not take too much effort.

I would not want the buffs to apply to WvW but rather PvE only. But communicating this stuff to PvE’ers is a great idea.

John Snowman [GLTY]
Space Marine Z [GLTY]

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Posted by: Fuzzion.2504

Fuzzion.2504

I love your ideas.

Fuzzionx [SF]
Guest member of [LOVE]
JQ official Prime Minister

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Posted by: Dawntree.7246

Dawntree.7246

Outnumbered should not affect in any way battle stats otherwise it will be a incentive for toxic behaviour “get away from here pvers, you’re making things easier for the enemy”

Dual monitor -> I too have a gw2score.com fullscreen on my second monitor (I find it easier to read than millenium during action), something in game could be appreciated but not at the expenses of more importat features

Commander tools -> we just had multi colours and acc bound, which is totally nice and needed upgrade, but we are still short of what is requested.
I like the idea of a menu for quickly join squad. A commander could open a squad and have a 80 character description text like “defending and upgrading EB corner” or “havoc raid in * BL”.T
he idea is also totally reversible in PvE, like on Teq “offensive west zerg – western battery”… or Wurm “cobalt wurm”… and so on

Also, announcements are a nice idea. Say that also guild names that claims a structure are broadcasted, like “Double Experience have captured and claimed Lowlands for Whiteside Ridge” (self reference FTW ), guild activity in WvW would be highly rewarded with visibility, although it could create a slightly spam issue

Emanuel Dawntree – Nord Guardian of [TasH] – 9×80
Whiteside Ridge

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Posted by: drmicro.7659

drmicro.7659

The biggest idea i see as a positive to wvw is the broadcast of the messages to the pve community, however with the megaserver I am just concerned that they may not undertake such an action, because they may find it too complicated to just sort out which players see what messages from what servers. As example I am sure HOD really wants to hear about BG capturing stonemist. But i do have something i would like to add to your list of proposed ideas. And that would be additions upgrades, aka Tier 4 upgrades, something that would give these places much more defenses that would balance things out a bit with all the added assualt abilities. I mean i seriously doubt that after 2 years of a paper inner garrison gate that anet really cares about defense, but i would like to see some stronger doors/wall, possibly some T4 upgrade that gives addition HP to the cannons/mortars and maybe even more guards that are capable of stealing supply or disabling seige. And even repair merchants or player seige refresh workers. Sadly, having ppl just dedicated to these task without any rewards i think would be better suited to NPC. Im just trying to throw in some additional ideas.

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Posted by: Seraph.6853

Seraph.6853

There’s a lot of good chatter on the reddit thread (http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2hgnqg/what_if_outnumbered_meant_siege_costs_50_to/) too. I see a few of you cross posting (thanks!)

I think we all agree Outnumbered and Announcements both present some solid ideas. The Quick Squad Commander menu (much like the current LFG tool) present ways for us to interact also helps.

I like one theme I’m hearing on both sides: WvWvW should be the ultimate game mode; the thing we all in the community are proud of. PvE announcements get us there.

Funny enough, a lot of this already exists: LFG, Squads, Commander Orders, World Bonuses, WvWvW Dialog Box are all incarnations of what we have. What is missing is more awareness and simplicity in using these tools. I don’t know what analytics ANet has, but I presume they’re underutilized on low pop servers? I can’t speak for high population.

:dA:
http://theoryanimation.com
Guardian, Commander Serafael [REV], Henge of Denravi

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Posted by: Seraph.6853

Seraph.6853

Another good one from reddit user: Tyragon

Personally I think Outnumbered and Borderland Bloodlust should be replaced with eachother.
It makes more sense that you’d want a stat bonus to make up for being too few instead of getting more goodies. And to me, it makes more sense to work towards getting Bloodlust as a bonus, cause it would increase all the goodies people get.

:dA:
http://theoryanimation.com
Guardian, Commander Serafael [REV], Henge of Denravi

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Posted by: munkiman.3068

munkiman.3068

I like most of your ideas and most of them have been brought up several times. However, I don’t think we should ever buff individual players. Buff siege and objectives during defense events when you’re heavily outmanned, sure. Outnumbered is pretty much just an indicator and i personally believe that’s all it should ever be.

[TAO] Founder/Owner and Administrator for the NSP Server Website

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Posted by: Bohun Martell.8963

Bohun Martell.8963

Great ideas.
I would also add some incentive to defend keeps.
Like Ori nodes in T3 keeps and rich one in Stonemist, or just better rewards from defence events.