Guild Wars 2

Would you guys like to see more counter stealth play. I personally liked the idea and think anet should add more options on different classes. Here are a few possible suggestions for classes im familiar with. Mostly changing utilites not used often.

Engi suggestions
1) Thumper or rifle turret replaced with Detector turret. Detector turret- X amount radius around the turret de stealths every x seconds. Overcharge ability- Everybody in the explosion radius is de stealthed and gets revealed condition for x seconds. Toolbelt skill- Single target reveal condition for x seconds just like sic em.
2)Utility goggles reworked- Single target reveal condtion for x seconds. Toolbelt skill fury for x seconds immunity to blindess for x seconds stun breaker.
3)Throw mine changed to throw detector mine- Works exactly like it does now except it adds a reveal condtion for x seconds. Can keep the knockback or lose it. Toolbelt skill stays the same or maybe 1 second reveal condtion per mine.

Ranger Suggestions
1) Vipers nest changed to Detector trap-Works just like vipers nest except each pulse gives reveal condition for x seconds instead of poison.
2)Search and rescue changed to search and reveal. Targeted x radius aoe reveal with or without a reveal condition applied.

Warrior Suggestions
1) On my mark reworked- Single target reveal condtion for x seconds.
2) Replace x banner with detector banner- De stealths anybody in the banner radius every x seconds no stat bonus from banner.

So like my ideas hate em have some of your own or just want to qq if you main a thief feel free to comment.

In before the Thief QQ’s about how they are the weakest class in the game and the rest of the player base just has no idea how hard they have it.

I would love a trait to be able to let turrets detect stealthed enemies to give turrets a good reason to be placed down.

Also not cause of thieves, pu mesmers spend more time in stealth now more than any class >.>

… but teh stealth trap! TEH STEALTH TRAP!

that wont stop them from shadowstepping to their spawn while jumping in your face taunting your petty attempts to catch up. you might just deny them from entering shadow’s refuge with more stealth counter-play before hand but the outcome is likely to remain the same if a thief does not wish to continue the fight and disengage with superior mobility.

tbh I use stealth traps for PU mesmers more so than thieves…kinda heartbreaking lol

yeah thats what the game needs…more hard counters.
you guys didnt read the diamond skin thread hm?

Domey.9804:

yeah thats what the game needs…more hard counters.
you guys didnt read the diamond skin thread hm?

I can make my own opinion tyvm :P

Eng doesn’t need anything more to counter stealth. It already has knockbacks/pulls/blocks/stuns and spamable aoe.

An aoe reveal on a banner? That’s way too OP. Revealed on a war doesn’t make much sense to me from a game design pov either.

Domey.9804:

yeah thats what the game needs…more hard counters.
you guys didnt read the diamond skin thread hm?

Agreed. It yields far better play/counter play when you put in more soft counters if they are needed. Say I go into a SR trying to knock out some one with Magnetic Inversion. He has ways of avoiding that such as doding, but even then if they didn’t position themselves properly they’ll roll out. Play/counterplay is a good thing since it makes skill matter more than what you bring on your bar beforehand. Just slapping down aoe reveal banner and going lawl nothing you can do doesn’t provide any more skilled gameplay.

Domey.9804:

yeah thats what the game needs…more hard counters.
you guys didnt read the diamond skin thread hm?

Hard counters are good. It forces people to adapt and be prepared for anything. Also if you can’t take something down to 90% health, you’re just plain bad.

This is the only game in existence where stealth has no counter. Hmmmm………

As a thief I would appreciate hard counters to stealth. I simply find it laughably easy to win in wvw with perma stealth on demand. If i start to lose, I simply poof in the middle of the fight, watch my enemies flail around, heal up then return to kill my enemies. I’d like a little more of a challenge. Bring it on <3

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Engi suggestions
Ranger Suggestions
Warrior Suggestions

Engineer has crapton of (point blank) AoE nukes, pushes, pulls, blinds, blocks to either put heavy pressure on thieves.
Ranger has great access to evades, blocks, soft CC and instant AI (pet), and some nasty channeled skills, which lock on target even when stealthed.
Warrior has absurd amounts of hard and soft CC, absurdly high damage even on tanky builds, and some of the most cheesy builds to lock-down and kill anything.

Yeah, give any of them even more tools against thieves who still rely on stealth for their burst…

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Would you guys like to see more counter stealth play.

No (that coming from an ele). Stealth is not really the issue imho, but some mechanisms make it stupid / boring to fight against:

• low risk skills / combos like Blinding Powder + leap / blast finishers on relatively low cost / cooldown (though I like the cross-class-combos, which my mates and I utilize in small scale fights sometimes as well)
• too strong additional bonuses from stealth (also relates to bullet #1) in some builds (especially D/P thieves with perma stealth builds and PU mesmers with AI-reliant builds)
• full shadow refuge stealth duration seems too long (especially with “Meld with Shadows”)

Stealth, if utilized correctly, is pretty strong, but in itself okay imho. There are corner conditions in which I find it being too strong, but that has less to do with the stealth effect itself but more with abusability of some traits and skills.

Stealth traps.
Have been in circulation for a while.
Use them.

currently there is only 2 way to detect stealth:
- stealth trap: expensive, clunky, resource wasting and with no guaranteed result in other word utterly useless
- arrow cart skill 4: well i never actually manage to stealth out a thief (or that i know of) since you cant bring arrow cart around and in siege condition most thief dies to bleed anyway

in gw2 its to easy to abuse stealth mechanic, especially with thief (mesmer can abuse stealth but i find it as a mild annoyance compared to the thief)
they say they would nerf the perma stealth mechanic (dont dont consider moving 100% stealth to 90% stealth a nerf)
people never mention any problem with stealth because most people play warrior or guard and cant hardy notice when they are hit by backstab and their attack cleave so if the thief still linger around it can be easily hit by the auto attack.

what i suggest:
- adding a revealed state each time after you use a stealth skill (2-4 second) that way you cant spam stealth and get way with it
- especially for thief make the heal (hide in shadow) only remove one condition. this is way to annoying since they can easily stealth+heal+regen+remove condition+recover initiative while hiding and the opponent only can madly aoe
- a simple way to counter stealth in combat just add a trail of glowing foot mark when stealthed in combat this way we can know where are they going

There should be a trap that increases skill level.

stealth traps, lol. it’s cute when people place those thinking that we thieves cannot see them being placed. I have nver hit one of those. it’s so obvious where they are being placed.

Stealth should work like it does in basically every other genre but for some reason MMO devs just crap all over themselves and can’t understand basic game design.

It’s not complicated:
Stealthed characters are invisible while stationary
Moving gives them either increasing levels of transparency based on speed and distance or the tried and true Predator cloaking effect.

If you’re aware of their presence, you can look for the cloaked character and spot them. It then becomes a game of the stealthed character trying to keep his presence secret for as long as possible to maximize the effectiveness of invisibility.

This simple, effective system has worked in basically every other genre, but MMO devs just can’t seem to figure it out.

It worked in AvP
It worked in Tribes

I can’t think of a single game that this simple system was used and it didn’t work perfectly.

Stillmoon.6894:

what i suggest:
- adding a revealed state each time after you use a stealth skill (2-4 second) that way you cant spam stealth and get way with it
- especially for thief make the heal (hide in shadow) only remove one condition. this is way to annoying since they can easily stealth+heal+regen+remove condition+recover initiative while hiding and the opponent only can madly aoe
- a simple way to counter stealth in combat just add a trail of glowing foot mark when stealthed in combat this way we can know where are they going

You might as well suggest to delete the thief profession from the game. Without some major buffs in other areas such changes will completely destroy the profession and it will be in a far worse state than even the ranger, and that means something. Thieves are already so strong in the WvW meta, which is why you see so many zerging thieves /sarcasm.

Stillmoon.6894:

people never mention any problem with stealth because most people play warrior or guard and cant hardy notice when they are hit by backstab and their attack cleave so if the thief still linger around it can be easily hit by the auto attack.

Backstab builds are more of an l2p / build-related issue than anything else. D/D is fine – you need to take risks and your opponent can influence how often you are able to stealth in a given timespan. Backstab damage is therefore bound to a costly spell (C’n’D) or an expensive utility skill (BP or Shadow Refuge).
D/P builds lack some reliable counter for the majority of classes. You can still build them for perma-stealth without taking great risks or drawbacks, which imho is pretty bad design.

Stillmoon.6894:

- adding a revealed state each time after you use a stealth skill (2-4 second) that way you cant spam stealth and get way with it

The problem isn’t stealth in itself but the ability to either introduce it permanently (impossible for D/D thieves if the opponent has some experience with C’n’D and backstab mechanics) or getting insane benefits from it (~200-300 HPpS seems fine to me, almost guaranteed aegis and protection and regeneration is not)

Stillmoon.6894:

- especially for thief make the heal (hide in shadow) only remove one condition. this is way to annoying since they can easily stealth+heal+regen+remove condition+recover initiative while hiding and the opponent only can madly aoe

Thieves rely either on stealth for condition removal, or they play with mh-sword, which is mostly played in builds which don’t utilize stealth as their primary source of damage. I would even go as far as saying that most sword-builds are more dangerous and harder to counter than backstab builds.
Shadow Refuge needs some tuning, as I stated above, but it doesn’t make stealth overpowered in itself.

Stillmoon.6894:

- a simple way to counter stealth in combat just add a trail of glowing foot mark when stealthed in combat this way we can know where are they going

And what would be the purpose of the stealth effect, then? Showing off that the graphics engine is capable of rendering transparent stuff?

Okaishi.8320:

You might as well suggest to delete the thief profession from the game. Without some major buffs in other areas such changes will completely destroy the profession and it will be in a far worse state than even the ranger, and that means something. Thieves are already so strong in the WvW meta, which is why you see so many zerging thieves /sarcasm.

yes, im suggesting to delete unskilled kitten thief as a profession
you complained about thief being so weak in wvw yet 20% population of wvw is thief determined it is a lie

thief defending their broken mechanic and act as if they are the weakest among all. what a joke

You might want to work on grammar and your reading comprehension leaves things to be desired as well. I’m not saying thief is the weakest amongst all professions, had you tried to read a bit more carefully you would have understood I said that changes such as the ones you proposed would indeed make thief the most useless and weakest class. Their use in zergs/blobs (the current wvw meta) is already very limited and their only strong asset at the moment is roaming. And even then good players can easily kill thieves, as lots of players already have mentioned. I generally have an easy time killing thieves on any of my other classes, maybe because I play one a lot myself and understand very well how the class works. But yeah, I guess complaining is the easier way to ‘deal’ with your issues.

Better idea: remove stealth entirely then make thief into something that isn’t a waste of a character slot.

I agree. The constant steath is the most broken mechanic in wvw. Both mesmers and thieves abuse it and definitely needs a fix.

Coldtart.4785:

Better idea: remove stealth entirely then make thief into something that isn’t a waste of a character slot.

That used to be really special about gw1. They weren’t following the mmo trap of stealth classes and the fights there were always great. Its too bad they added it to its sequel…

" And even then good players can easily kill thieves, as lots of players already have mentioned."
yeah,sure i can kill thief all right but then i only spend twice as long compared to other classes because it keep stealthing all the time. bet no one mention that in their post.

" I generally have an easy time killing thieves on any of my other classes"
yeah sure, you only play thief and guardian it is relatively easy to kill thief on those 2 classes /rolleyes

“I’m not saying thief is the weakest amongst all professions”
im not saying thief is the weakest amongst all classes, i just say you thieves “ACT” like you are the weakest and it sickens me. thieves are all very touchy when it it comes into stealth debates. from all classes only thief can efficiently abuse a single mechanic that is stealth (fear and torment is shared between some classes) and by abuse i mean really abuse it. the downtime from stealth in the middle of combat is really disruptive (at least when a warrior run away he is visible so you can see him run away and decide to chase or just ignore it)

must be so hard in wvw to have class with superior dps, superior mobility, very diruptive and abusable combat mechanics, and the ability to break combat ability to run anytime without any down side
/SARCASM

Sanduskel.1850:

stealth traps, lol. it’s cute when people place those thinking that we thieves cannot see them being placed. I have nver hit one of those. it’s so obvious where they are being placed.

They’re doing it wrong. It’s easy to make a thief trip a stealth trap provided they didn’t see it being placed.

Stillmoon.6894:

currently there is only 2 way to detect stealth:
- stealth trap: expensive, clunky, resource wasting and with no guaranteed result in other word utterly useless
- arrow cart skill 4: well i never actually manage to stealth out a thief (or that i know of) since you cant bring arrow cart around and in siege condition most thief dies to bleed anyway

in gw2 its to easy to abuse stealth mechanic, especially with thief (mesmer can abuse stealth but i find it as a mild annoyance compared to the thief)
they say they would nerf the perma stealth mechanic (dont dont consider moving 100% stealth to 90% stealth a nerf)
people never mention any problem with stealth because most people play warrior or guard and cant hardy notice when they are hit by backstab and their attack cleave so if the thief still linger around it can be easily hit by the auto attack.

what i suggest:
- adding a revealed state each time after you use a stealth skill (2-4 second) that way you cant spam stealth and get way with it
- especially for thief make the heal (hide in shadow) only remove one condition. this is way to annoying since they can easily stealth+heal+regen+remove condition+recover initiative while hiding and the opponent only can madly aoe
- a simple way to counter stealth in combat just add a trail of glowing foot mark when stealthed in combat this way we can know where are they going

If you bothered to pay any attention at all you would realize that there is a revealed state already in effect. Adding a glowing footmark would defeat the purpose of stealth. Please start using your brain before someone else does it for you.

Stealth is one of the most broken things in this game, and that’s saying a lot considering how incredibly kittened up this game is. Revealed needs to be 10-15 seconds. Stealth should be a short duration, limited use tactical decision. Right now, there is absolutely no reason not to stealth every time revealed is down. Obviously thieves would need to be buffed in other ways to make up for the loss of survivability.

Sadly, there is a large portion of the gaming population that gets off on abusing stealth mechanics, and so anet would never risk losing their business.

I do agree that there needs to be more counter play to stealth, but I hope anet gives thieves a roll in this game independent of this cheesy gimmick first. Even stealth on mesmers is too much since you are forced to either use ranged channeled/aoe attacks to maintain pressure (if you can predict where he is properly) or sit amongst a bunch of terrible ai applying conditions on you while the mesmer repositions.

Monoman.2068:

I do agree that there needs to be more counter play to stealth, but I hope anet gives thieves a roll in this game independent of this cheesy gimmick first. Even stealth on mesmers is too much since you are forced to either use ranged channeled/aoe attacks to maintain pressure (if you can predict where he is properly) or sit amongst a bunch of terrible ai applying conditions on you while the mesmer repositions.

I play multiple thieves, and I admit that it’s horrifically op’d. Its a badly broken mechanic. Most thieves won’t admit it because they enjoy the ability to perma stealth on demand anytime a fight isn’t going their way. I recognize that this is inherently imbalanced. I strongly encourage those of you who agree with me to send persistant and respectful feedback on this badly broken mechanic. Most mmos don’t allow stealthing while in combat exactly because it imbalances games. Anet tried to be different. usually being different is good. not with regard to stealth though.

regard.

Sanduskel, proud owner of 5 thief alts.

I’ll just drop this off here:

A thief wouldn’t have to stealth so much if they had literally any other abilities to survive a fight.

Instead of another thread about just crying calling for nerfs, I propose that for every ability you suggest they REMOVE from the thief, that you suggest the specific CREATION of another viable skill to make up for it.

I’m a thief and I’d love to fight face to face… …if the game gave me any of the tools needed to win a fight that way.

Remove some stealth skills and replace them with regen or stability/protection skills imo.

Thief here. I’m okay with hard stealth counters if there are equally useful counters to other pretty much class exclusive abilities. Say you have a counter to a thief in your utility and a guardian shows up. You could have taken that utility but now you are using this one. Then again maybe swapping between these “counter skills” would be too easy or something.

Also…Maybe I’m just confused here so please help me understand. I thought that “perma stealth” was removed from the game with there were changes made to infusion of shadow on December 10th.This of course removing the gimmicky heart seeker 4 times through black powder to literally be permanently invisible with D/P on demand. That and you could switch to shortbow for cluster bomb in black powder for a very long stealth (unending with 2 thieves.) Other than these I know no other way of people “perma-stealthing,” but please if you guys know something I don’t please tell. I just see people talking on the forums about how thieves still “perma-stealth” and I’m confused. I play a s/d and sometimes s/p thief so I don’t use much stealth at all. Would appreciate feedback and have a good day.

Warhawk.7095:

I’ll just drop this off here:

A thief wouldn’t have to stealth so much if they had literally any other abilities to survive a fight.

Instead of another thread about just crying calling for nerfs, I propose that for every ability you suggest they REMOVE from the thief, that you suggest the specific CREATION of another viable skill to make up for it.

I’m a thief and I’d love to fight face to face… …if the game gave me any of the tools needed to win a fight that way.

this is a common misperception. Thieves who die quickly spec to die quickly. thieves can spec to survive quite well without stealth. they have great evades and can spec to have decent armor.

As a thief player let me assure you that perma stealth was improved as of the dec 10th patch, lol. we got more initiative regen.

Btw guys, if you still haven’t caught up, Sanduskel is a known troll, about everything thief-related(which is the only thing he posts about) – just ignore him and don’t reply to him.

Anyway, since you want MORE hard counters, let’s suggest Defy Pain to work in a way as Automated Response, a.k.a. you can’t be damaged with direct damage when under 25% hp, you can only be applied/take damage from conditions. After all, why should you be able to bring a warrior down with direct damage, you should be versatile with your build and… bring someone with you. Works great, huh? /sarcasm
Now on topic – I stopped playing my thief after dec 10-th, but having over 1k hours on him, I have no problems vs thieves, since I am being able to identify their build by just their initiation and act accordingly. I play a condi bunker warr for roaming. It’s funny but I get partied and complained about a “no skill build” and “op” more than when I played on thief… even from thieves.

Sanduskel.1850:

Monoman.2068:

I do agree that there needs to be more counter play to stealth, but I hope anet gives thieves a roll in this game independent of this cheesy gimmick first. Even stealth on mesmers is too much since you are forced to either use ranged channeled/aoe attacks to maintain pressure (if you can predict where he is properly) or sit amongst a bunch of terrible ai applying conditions on you while the mesmer repositions.

I play multiple thieves, and I admit that it’s horrifically op’d. Its a badly broken mechanic. Most thieves won’t admit it because they enjoy the ability to perma stealth on demand anytime a fight isn’t going their way. I recognize that this is inherently imbalanced. I strongly encourage those of you who agree with me to send persistant and respectful feedback on this badly broken mechanic. Most mmos don’t allow stealthing while in combat exactly because it imbalances games. Anet tried to be different. usually being different is good. not with regard to stealth though.

regard.

Sanduskel, proud owner of 5 thief alts.

I think the hate on stealth is more of an emotional one then based on sound logic. Yes every now and then you get killed by a thief, that you couldn’t see and you go down in 3-4 hits. People hate that mechanic, but it actually doesn’t happen like that all that often. Thieves go down really fast if they don’t manage their cd’s, but no one ever complained about a thief getting 3 shotted, because of course the stealthy kitten deserved it!

I have lvl 80’s of every class, all with multiple sets of gear and I play them all. Thieves are a lot of fun, but I probably die more on my thief then any other class. By no means does stealth give me an advantage in every situation, and I think it’s fairly well balanced.

Imho, either they strongly reduce availability of stealth – so that it is still a powerful effect, but the uptime is greatly reduced – or they introduce some sort of drawback like reduced movement speed while in stealth like many other games do (and move Fleet Shadow to a master or grandmaster slot, but giving it the equivalent of normal movement speed).

Manuhell.2759:

Imho, either they strongly reduce availability of stealth – so that it is still a powerful effect, but the uptime is greatly reduced – or they introduce some sort of drawback like reduced movement speed while in stealth like many other games do (and move Fleet Shadow to a master or grandmaster slot, but giving it the equivalent of normal movement speed).

That way no one could ever successfully backstab again? Hooray “balance”?

Aberrant.6749:

That way no one could ever successfully backstab again? Hooray “balance”?

So that’s a problem now? Cause when any other class can’t hit them cause of them being constantly hidden, thieves cry about the others lacking skills.
At least they are still hidden, that’s the advantage. If they can’t catch an opponent that can’t even see them…heh, then they must learn to play.
And if the enemies escape to avoid being backstabbed…thieves have still won the fight, right? I mean, that’s the excuse used everytime about thieves escaping.

Fine nerf stealth but then give us S/D and S/P back and make P/P finally have some use.

Stillmoon.6894:

yeah,sure i can kill thief all right but then i only spend twice as long compared to other classes because it keep stealthing all the time. bet no one mention that in their post.

Depends on how good the thief is. A bad thief drops as fast as a bad player of any other class to be honest, and a good one can be hard to take down. But that goes for a good player on any other class as well.

Stillmoon.6894:

yeah sure, you only play thief and guardian it is relatively easy to kill thief on those 2 classes /rolleyes

Those are the 2 classes I play the most, doesn’t mean I don’t play anything else. I just didn’t bother adding the classes I play less to my signature.

Stillmoon.6894:

im not saying thief is the weakest amongst all classes, i just say you thieves “ACT” like you are the weakest and it sickens me. thieves are all very touchy when it it comes into stealth debates. from all classes only thief can efficiently abuse a single mechanic that is stealth (fear and torment is shared between some classes) and by abuse i mean really abuse it. the downtime from stealth in the middle of combat is really disruptive (at least when a warrior run away he is visible so you can see him run away and decide to chase or just ignore it)

I only said they’d be the weakest if the changes you suggested are implemented. Not sure why you think I’m acting like they are the weakest at the moment, they are definitely strong at roaming right now. It’s the one thing they are good though, so you can imagine how ‘useful’ they will be if they introduce too many nerfs that will prevent them from doing that effectivally as well.

Stillmoon.6894:

must be so hard in wvw to have class with superior dps, superior mobility, very diruptive and abusable combat mechanics, and the ability to break combat ability to run anytime without any down side
/SARCASM

Thieves have good dps, but not more than most classes. Any class can retaliate to their burst and deal atleast as much damage, if not more, back to the thief. Mobility is great, on par with warriors I’d say. Stealth is a very strong combat mechanic, but there’s good counterplay to it if faced with a capable opponent. Sure, thief can disengage more easily than any other class, but it also means they accomplished nothing. And those strenghts also comes with weaknesses, like lowest base HP, relatively few boons, hardly any stability and little access to CC.

And it’s ironic by the way that you’re a necro, a class that is a hundred times more useful in zergs. Zerging on my necro sometimes leaves me wondering why I should bother with my thief, as the lootbags and wxp my thief gets while roaming pales in comparison to what my necro receives. So yeah, roaming thieves are strong, but we only lose gold doing so, as my food costs are a lot higher than the gold I get from loot/camps. Yet the necromancer complains because thieves manage to run away from him using their stealth and mobility, and it annoys him to great extent he’s missing out on an additional lootbag to complement his already well-filled inventory of loot. I’m afraid I just can’t feel sorry.

Did I mention condition necros are really strong by the way? And reading your post history to see you claim necros are " the red head child in the family of classes" is hilarious. Just priceless how you claim I’m acting like thieves are the weakest class, while you’re acting like necros have it really bad in other topics.

I think they should have made the Ranger stealth reveal work against already stealthed opponents. Basically if a player is stealthed within the range lets say 900, they get the revealed debuff and the ranger skill goes on cooldown for 45 seconds or so. If it fails the ranger skill gets a 15s cooldown. IMO the skill isn’t unbalanced and gives Rangers a VERY important job which is sweeping.

Engi almost is a hard counter to a thief. As long as it is using bomb kit most thiefs are not getting too close.
And warrior a thief counter? Really a warrior?

I think Stealth needs to be given a short ICD. Maybe 5 seconds. Fighting a thief that is just stealthing in and out is not fun. Especially when they can still burst you down in seconds, even if they didn’t trait for damage.

I think 5 seconds is short enough that thieves and mesmers don’t lose their stealth utility, but long enough that it allows a window for the opponent to apply some pressure.

aspirine.6852:

Engi almost is a hard counter to a thief. As long as it is using bomb kit most thiefs are not getting too close.
And warrior a thief counter? Really a warrior?

Agreed. Warrior attacks are highly telegraphed. Any decent thief will evade or blind the big hits while chipping away at their health pool.

Engies and mesmers are my least favorite classes to fight. Both go down really fast when played poorly but a decent one is very difficult fight often resulting in the thief running away or over pursuing.

Perma stealth Thieves are awful and right now I would like to see them go, but I think that’s not the foundation of the whole problem. IMO, it is the targeting of GW2, which makes it cumbersome to fight Mesmers and Thieves.

PS: Stealth Traps should be cheaper to obtain and the fact that they exist is an indication for me that devs too think there is something phony with stealth in WvW.

Gorani.7205:

Perma stealth Thieves are awful and right now I would like to see them go, but I think that’s not the foundation of the whole problem. IMO, it is the targeting of GW2, which makes it cumbersome to fight Mesmers and Thieves.

PS: Stealth Traps should be cheaper to obtain and the fact that they exist is an indication for me that devs too think there is something phony with stealth in WvW.

Thieves are not hard to fight since it is typically just one of them. tab target and you are good to go. Mesmers are much more difficult to fight against.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Would you guys like to see more counter stealth play. I personally liked the idea and think anet should add more options on different classes. Here are a few possible suggestions for classes im familiar with. Mostly changing utilites not used often.

Engi suggestions
1) Thumper or rifle turret replaced with Detector turret. Detector turret- X amount radius around the turret de stealths every x seconds. Overcharge ability- Everybody in the explosion radius is de stealthed and gets revealed condition for x seconds. Toolbelt skill- Single target reveal condition for x seconds just like sic em.
2)Utility goggles reworked- Single target reveal condtion for x seconds. Toolbelt skill fury for x seconds immunity to blindess for x seconds stun breaker.
3)Throw mine changed to throw detector mine- Works exactly like it does now except it adds a reveal condtion for x seconds. Can keep the knockback or lose it. Toolbelt skill stays the same or maybe 1 second reveal condtion per mine.

Ranger Suggestions
1) Vipers nest changed to Detector trap-Works just like vipers nest except each pulse gives reveal condition for x seconds instead of poison.
2)Search and rescue changed to search and reveal. Targeted x radius aoe reveal with or without a reveal condition applied.

Warrior Suggestions
1) On my mark reworked- Single target reveal condtion for x seconds.
2) Replace x banner with detector banner- De stealths anybody in the banner radius every x seconds no stat bonus from banner.

So like my ideas hate em have some of your own or just want to qq if you main a thief feel free to comment.

No to anything that adds even more value to warriors. That class does not need it.

Gorani.7205:

Perma stealth Thieves are awful and right now I would like to see them go, but I think that’s not the foundation of the whole problem. IMO, it is the targeting of GW2, which makes it cumbersome to fight Mesmers and Thieves.

PS: Stealth Traps should be cheaper to obtain and the fact that they exist is an indication for me that devs too think there is something phony with stealth in WvW.

I think they were made to catch thieves and mesmers trolling in keeps.

Why not just remove the Leap combo from Heartseeker? How much would that affect the class in a bad way Vs how it would make the class more balanced not to be able to go stealth so easily and for us a low cost.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Why not just remove the Leap combo from Heartseeker? How much would that affect the class in a bad way Vs how it would make the class more balanced not to be able to go stealth so easily and for us a low cost.

Balance is not ruining class becouse your are bad.