Guild Wars 2

mrmadhaze.8706:

Balance is not ruining class becouse your are bad.

Well, minus the ability to jump into stealth every 4 seconds on command what would this change actually do? Maybe make them rely on something other than resetting a fight the moment they get scared?

Even with that change, they still have access to stealth and still plenty of it.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Why not just remove the Leap combo from Heartseeker? How much would that affect the class in a bad way Vs how it would make the class more balanced not to be able to go stealth so easily and for us a low cost.

Hmm i kinda of like that idea. I myself main a thief hate vsing a good perma stealth dp thief build. Though honestly its not op just incredibility annoying. Other classes bring more to the table in small group play and much more in zerg play.

Look at it this way in 1v1 dp perma stealth thief really can’t/shouldn’t die if he doesnt want to( other classes can disengage extremely well PU mes, GS wars etc... Though in 2v2 or 3v3 there isn’t much of an increase in there strength as opposed to other class combinations. A Mesmers and a guard duo or war guard duo is stronger than a perma dp thief duo.

Shatter Mesmer gs/staff with tank boon heavy gs/hammer guard vs two dp perma stealth thief. Basically the use of cc, boons, and aoe damage is more than thiefs can handle. Many prof compositions are stronger than all theif teams. In wvw you can just roam(5 man) around capping camps , towers and other objective. These dp perma stealth thief will be just like insects buzzing around.

The can not contest other prof for objectives(not cappin in steath) and contribute little to wvw. The are basically just great at disengaging and that is the main reason why they are successful there in-combat abilities aren’t better than other professions.

So to summarize in wvw dp perma stealth thief is just annoying and that about it(Though I wouldn’t care if it was changed).

Thief will never be able to contribute like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je7ktc2MHqs

As a thief, I think the best solution would be to prevent stealthing while in combat. It would make this class much more challenging and fun to play.

Sanduskel.1850:

As a thief, I think the best solution would be to prevent stealthing while in combat. It would make this class much more challenging and fun to play.

I dont mind stealth, i do mind the silly access Thief get. Remove the Leap finisher from Heartseeker and i think that could fix it all. They have so much access to stealth and dark fields and everything they have it easy.

I will put in my 2 cents on how I feel about thief stealthing. If you ever come across a good player using a thief there is only 2 possible outcomes. 1) The thief is losing the fight and decides to stealth and run away. 2) The thief wins the fight or stealths when losing and resets the fight over and over again until they win. A good thief pretty much never dies ever.
I thought the ranger sic em was a good idea and it has helped kill some thieves who are trying to run away cus they lost the fight. However sic em as it works now has to be used absolutely 100% perfectly and is only available on one class. I agree if more classes were given the option to give the reveal buff then maybe thieves and mesmers might need a lil more help like more ways to get protection or regen or something to compensate. But just because you play a thief doesn’t mean you should get to never die if your a half decent player.

If you ever want the ridiculous on demand perma stealth to change, please submit persistant, respectful and frequent feedback to anet. They need to hear the voice of the players. Id personally like to have a more challenging experience on my thief.

I think highly skilled thieves are almost impossible to counter. One took 5 of us out in approximately a minute in SM today. We all knew the thief was there but had no answer – one or two hits & you were down then the thief vanished before anyone could try & counter. Should their stealth skills be nerfed? I don’t know. Are they any worse than the op hammer wielding opponents or any other perceived op classes?

johnnymiller.5968:

I think highly skilled thieves are almost impossible to counter. One took 5 of us out in approximately a minute in SM today. We all knew the thief was there but had no answer – one or two hits & you were down then the thief vanished before anyone could try & counter. Should their stealth skills be nerfed? I don’t know. Are they any worse than the op hammer wielding opponents or any other perceived op classes?

There is no such thing as player skills when playing as thief. It is that easy to play it “effectively”.

Easy to win against bad opponents, but hard to win against anything else if the build does not hard-counter anything else if players are on par skill-wise / does not abuse mechanisms which are often utilized in builds of other classes as well (i.e. cover conditions via sigils and runes and CC spam), thus having a great skill ceiling.
There are so many mechanisms which make GW2 terrible at times when it comes to PvP, but stealth on thieves is (apart from D/P cheese and abuse of shadow refuge in WvW) none of them. It provides potential for interesting fights: timing, anticipation, evasion and burst delivery with equal chances on both sides.
Getting root-stacked, chain-stunned, confusion-stacked and thrown around like a wet noodle is no fun for me. Fighting against good D/D and S/D thieves is, though, because my opponent has to know how to counter my burst and how to counterplay my actions while keeping track of timing, positioning and the opponent’s moves, and vice versa. Something which is clearly lacking in un-fun situations like the above mentioned.

I suggest to ask for fixes to broken mechanics, but not to abandon mechanics just because they are utilized in such broken stuff.

LightningBlaze.4913:

johnnymiller.5968:

I think highly skilled thieves are almost impossible to counter. One took 5 of us out in approximately a minute in SM today. We all knew the thief was there but had no answer – one or two hits & you were down then the thief vanished before anyone could try & counter. Should their stealth skills be nerfed? I don’t know. Are they any worse than the op hammer wielding opponents or any other perceived op classes?

There is no such thing as player skills when playing as thief. It is that easy to play it “effectively”.

That is a laughable sentiment..

I know a “good” thief from a “bad” thief in about the first 2 seconds of a fight, and there are alot more of the latter.

Warhawk.7095:

LightningBlaze.4913:

johnnymiller.5968:

I think highly skilled thieves are almost impossible to counter. One took 5 of us out in approximately a minute in SM today. We all knew the thief was there but had no answer – one or two hits & you were down then the thief vanished before anyone could try & counter. Should their stealth skills be nerfed? I don’t know. Are they any worse than the op hammer wielding opponents or any other perceived op classes?

There is no such thing as player skills when playing as thief. It is that easy to play it “effectively”.

That is a laughable sentiment..

I know a “good” thief from a “bad” thief in about the first 2 seconds of a fight, and there are alot more of the latter.

Well he’s correct. It’s very easy to play a thief and do well.

Caffynated.5713:

Stealth should work like it does in basically every other genre but for some reason MMO devs just crap all over themselves and can’t understand basic game design.

It’s not complicated:
Stealthed characters are invisible while stationary
Moving gives them either increasing levels of transparency based on speed and distance or the tried and true Predator cloaking effect.

If you’re aware of their presence, you can look for the cloaked character and spot them. It then becomes a game of the stealthed character trying to keep his presence secret for as long as possible to maximize the effectiveness of invisibility.

This simple, effective system has worked in basically every other genre, but MMO devs just can’t seem to figure it out.

It worked in AvP
It worked in Tribes

I can’t think of a single game that this simple system was used and it didn’t work perfectly.

THIS THIS THIS. That’s how stealth should work.

I have played many games with stealth in them. At launch, if they found out that stealth was too strong they patched it to make it balanced.

By far GW2’s version is the most asinine part of their game. How someone could think their stealth system up, implement it and not see a problem is amazing. Even worse is they actually got paid for their idea.

It’s a deal breaker for a game that has a lot of potential.

johnnymiller.5968:

I think highly skilled thieves are almost impossible to counter. One took 5 of us out in approximately a minute in SM today. We all knew the thief was there but had no answer – one or two hits & you were down then the thief vanished before anyone could try & counter. Should their stealth skills be nerfed? I don’t know. Are they any worse than the op hammer wielding opponents or any other perceived op classes?

Yes, they are a lot worse than other any perceived OP classes. At least I can see the other classes.

Forzani.2584:

I have played many games with stealth in them. At launch, if they found out that stealth was too strong they patched it to make it balanced.

By far GW2’s version is the most asinine part of their game. How someone could think their stealth system up, implement it and not see a problem is amazing. Even worse is they actually got paid for their idea.

It’s a deal breaker for a game that has a lot of potential.

Though the type of stealth(class thief) is just annoying not op. More so annoying in 1v1 though.

Stealth needs to come away from being front-and-centre of thief if they’re ever going to be able to do anything more than just be annoying in spvp and wvw. The way it’s implemented is tailor made for running from fights but has no way to actually contribute anything, since you (justifiably) can’t contest spvp capture points while in stealth and a sneaky single-target spike attack is just not threatening in the larger fights of wvw.

I’d love to see the thief get more short range teleports that disorient opponents over stealth. The problem is that stealth is pretty much all the thief class currently has. The survivability out of stealth is incredibly poor. Sure you can spec heavily into health/toughness but even then other classes can have more damage and survivability.

If we are talking about gutting stealth though, we also need to talk about gutting the mobility/resets of certain other classes. Nothing like attacking certain classes on the move only to have them outrun you while tanking/regening the damage or engaging them in a fight and just having them run and reset it at the first sign that they might lose.

I thought the same about stealth as you until I played a thief in WvW for myself. Stealth is powerful but not that OP as you might think. Every time a thief wins an outmanned fight it’s because his opponents doesnt play together. Thieves can so easily outplayed but you must not play all for your own. It’s not that hard as you might think.

In a 1vs1 situation its just a matter of timing: Dodge/ Block initial combo, then count to 4.

Thieves a great in killing the clueless. But its extremely hard to kill the good ones. Interestingly even after one year most players I fight in WvW are clueless.

Coldtart.4785:

you (justifiably) can’t contest spvp capture points while in stealth and a sneaky single-target spike attack is just not threatening in the larger fights of wvw.

Agree about capture points but that’s also the consequence of crycrycrynerfnerfnerf.
“In the name of balance we must destroy a class” this is the people’s common thought.
Anyway not everyone likes aoe spam in wvw just for lootbags and in the meanwhile a thief can do a lot

johnnymiller.5968:

We all knew the thief was there but had no answer – one or two hits & you were down then the thief vanished before anyone could try & counter.

Thats the most common mistake. Thieves are not gone when they vanish. You can counter him even if he is stealthed. Just think about what he will likely be doing next. I won’t give you more concrete advices. Go figure it out by yourself. Its not that hard.

teg.1340:

johnnymiller.5968:

We all knew the thief was there but had no answer – one or two hits & you were down then the thief vanished before anyone could try & counter.

Thats the most common mistake. Thieves are not gone when they vanish. You can counter him even if he is stealthed. Just think about what he will likely be doing next. I won’t give you more concrete advices. Go figure it out by yourself. Its not that hard.

In the end, it boils down to “do something and hope it works”.
You can’t properly counter something you can’t see, despite all the thieves saying so – because you don’t necessarily think as the player using the thief do.
Basically, you are not him, and that’s enough to make that “think about what he will likely be doing next” useless without any visual cue .
That’s also why we don’t have instant healing skills and skills with relevant effects are usually quite telegraphed – you are supposed to see them, to counter them.
Trying blind guesses isn’t about competition: it is mere luck.

Manuhell.2759:

teg.1340:

johnnymiller.5968:

We all knew the thief was there but had no answer – one or two hits & you were down then the thief vanished before anyone could try & counter.

Thats the most common mistake. Thieves are not gone when they vanish. You can counter him even if he is stealthed. Just think about what he will likely be doing next. I won’t give you more concrete advices. Go figure it out by yourself. Its not that hard.

In the end, it boils down to “do something and hope it works”.
You can’t properly counter something you can’t see, despite all the thieves saying so – because you don’t necessarily think as the player using the thief do.
Basically, you are not him, and that’s enough to make that “think about what he will likely be doing next” useless without any visual cue .
That’s also why we don’t have instant healing skills and skills with relevant effects are usually quite telegraphed – you are supposed to see them, to counter them.
Trying blind guesses isn’t about competition: it is mere luck.

I referred to those outmanned scenarios where 1 thief kills multiple enemies. In those scenarios with the proper strategy no thief would never ever kill a single player if they know what they are doing. It has nothing to do with hope or luck. It’s a guarantied “not loose”. The single reason DD thieves sometimes win outmanned fights is that enemies are clueless – trying to fight all by their own.

I wonder how it is always the thieves’ enemies fault if they aren’t able to hit something they can’t see (and even when they can see them, there are still evades, shadowsteps and blinds…).

If you make a mistake, you can either improve your gameplay or go to the forums and cry for nerfs. I play different kind of toons in WvW regularly – mostly doing solo roaming (warrior, thief, ele and engi). I’ve learned alot by playing different chars and constantly adopting new strategies and playstyles.

I could facepalm every time a thief finishes a downed player while another player is running around hitting thin air.

Stillmoon.6894:

yes, im suggesting to delete unskilled kitten thief as a profession
you complained about thief being so weak in wvw yet 20% population of wvw is thief determined it is a lie

Wait, didn’t you previously state that “because most people play warrior or guard” and yet you think that thieves are some huge balance issue?

The problem with making radical changes to stealth is simple. Anet intended the class to bounce in and out of stealth during an engagement. The class was designed to be played this way and making any large changes to stealth would require the class be re-tuned, otherwise it would be pointless to play.

Distaste.4801:

I’d love to see the thief get more short range teleports that disorient opponents over stealth.

There once was, but it is no more.

I think that the best solution for stealth would be to prevent stealthing while in combat. It would actually make playing my thief more challenging since I’d have to think about attacking.

Sanduskel.1850:

I think that the best solution for stealth would be to prevent stealthing while in combat. It would actually make playing my thief more challenging since I’d have to think about attacking.

If that happens, give us back IR and the 2 boon removal on larcenous strike. Might as well keep mesmers, engineers, rangers, and smoke finishers from stealthing as well. Have them apply blind instead. Oh yeah, and if stealth is working like other games, let me permastealth gank people so they have zero chance of seeing me.

Make it function like Planetside 2…invisible while stationary, with a faint outline/effect while moving.

Or make it like other games, non-time limit stealth, slower movement speed, can be detected in very close range. Unable to re-stealth in-combat unless using a long CD “o shi-” skill.

OR….have it so you can stealth like you can right now, remove revealed, but have it drain 1 initiative a second. Unable to gain initiative passively while in stealth (traits/skills would still work)

I run a p/p venom share build.

I’m not sure where you run into these perma stealth, insta death thieves at.

They just don’t build that way.

I had one of the stealth build annoying me the other day when I was on my engi. Really just an annoyance. Finally just ran way dropping bombs. My Engi is more of a support build.

I’ve also been destroyed by a power, precision, crit, 3 hit build thief. They don’t have a lot of stealth and are real easy to burn down.

my only question is why would engies get a stealth detector? they can stack stealth for a pretty long time..

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Would you guys like to see more counter stealth play. I personally liked the idea and think anet should add more options on different classes. Here are a few possible suggestions for classes im familiar with. Mostly changing utilites not used often.

Engi suggestions
1) Thumper or rifle turret replaced with Detector turret. Detector turret- X amount radius around the turret de stealths every x seconds. Overcharge ability- Everybody in the explosion radius is de stealthed and gets revealed condition for x seconds. Toolbelt skill- Single target reveal condition for x seconds just like sic em.
2)Utility goggles reworked- Single target reveal condtion for x seconds. Toolbelt skill fury for x seconds immunity to blindess for x seconds stun breaker.
3)Throw mine changed to throw detector mine- Works exactly like it does now except it adds a reveal condtion for x seconds. Can keep the knockback or lose it. Toolbelt skill stays the same or maybe 1 second reveal condtion per mine.

Ranger Suggestions
1) Vipers nest changed to Detector trap-Works just like vipers nest except each pulse gives reveal condition for x seconds instead of poison.
2)Search and rescue changed to search and reveal. Targeted x radius aoe reveal with or without a reveal condition applied.

Warrior Suggestions
1) On my mark reworked- Single target reveal condtion for x seconds.
2) Replace x banner with detector banner- De stealths anybody in the banner radius every x seconds no stat bonus from banner.

So like my ideas hate em have some of your own or just want to qq if you main a thief feel free to comment.

Easily available hard counters would be bad, especially if it was aoe.

No other class has a single mechanic that defines them as much as stealth does for a thief. An explicit, hard counter to stealth renders a thief pretty much worthless. Which is why very few hard counters exist. If they were common, the thief would literally not exist, there would be no point for them.

I’m also one of those players that remembers the days before it was expected that every class have a counter to every other class. I think that approach has just dumbed down the whole genre, and created a generation of gamers that expect to always be able to ‘win’. We need more classes like the thief that add danger and penalties for doing dumb things, not less.

teg.1340:

I thought the same about stealth as you until I played a thief in WvW for myself. Stealth is powerful but not that OP as you might think. Every time a thief wins an outmanned fight it’s because his opponents doesnt play together. Thieves can so easily outplayed but you must not play all for your own. It’s not that hard as you might think.

In a 1vs1 situation its just a matter of timing: Dodge/ Block initial combo, then count to 4.

Thieves a great in killing the clueless. But its extremely hard to kill the good ones. Interestingly even after one year most players I fight in WvW are clueless.

Thing is though a lot of thieves attack from behind & your down before you have had a chance to retaliate, this does not make a player clueless. You are never going to win all one on one situations no matter how good you might be or think you might be.

Svarty.8019:

… but teh stealth trap! TEH STEALTH TRAP!

lol

I’d just like to see stealth completely changed to be how it is in other MMOs. They tried something different in this game, and that’s fine. Trying new things is great, but its time to admit they were wrong and did a poor job at executing it. Stealth should last permanently until engaging in combat, stealth breaks upon taking damage, stealth can’t be activated while in combat, you move 50% slower while in stealth. That’s how it is in other decent MMOs with BALANCED stealth classes, and that’s how it should be in here. None of this constant restealthing, invisible for 90% of the fight, reset every time you make a mistake that any other non invisible class would have died for BS.

Nikkinella.8254:

I’d just like to see stealth completely changed to be how it is in other MMOs. They tried something different in this game, and that’s fine. Trying new things is great, but its time to admit they were wrong and did a poor job at executing it. Stealth should last permanently until engaging in combat, stealth breaks upon taking damage, stealth can’t be activated while in combat, you move 50% slower while in stealth. That’s how it is in other decent MMOs with BALANCED stealth classes, and that’s how it should be in here. None of this constant restealthing, invisible for 90% of the fight, reset every time you make a mistake that any other non invisible class would have died for BS.

In other MMO’s they can also stunlock you and have skills where you just can’t hit them at all for long periods of time while they wail on you. Different games are different. Doesn’t mean one is imbalanced.

90% stealth uptime =‘s wat. If a thief did do that… they they shouldn’t be able to out damage your healing unless you’re total glass and not very good at avoiding attacks.

If you just took the time to learn how to play against the new Vs. ask for the old you would be in a far better position.

I love how stealth works in this game.
I used to be on the same page with people that complain about stealth,
I even made a nerf Thief post of my own,and only after I got to
play one myself I understood that it is a hard class to master,
and how many tools there are in the game to counter it.
I also play a Mesmer a Warrior and a Guardian and in general
the Thief is a more demanding and unforgiving class.
The only way to understand this is to play a Thief yourself and
get countered hard by another class.

Aberrant.6749:

Nikkinella.8254:

I’d just like to see stealth completely changed to be how it is in other MMOs. They tried something different in this game, and that’s fine. Trying new things is great, but its time to admit they were wrong and did a poor job at executing it. Stealth should last permanently until engaging in combat, stealth breaks upon taking damage, stealth can’t be activated while in combat, you move 50% slower while in stealth. That’s how it is in other decent MMOs with BALANCED stealth classes, and that’s how it should be in here. None of this constant restealthing, invisible for 90% of the fight, reset every time you make a mistake that any other non invisible class would have died for BS.

In other MMO’s they can also stunlock you and have skills where you just can’t hit them at all for long periods of time while they wail on you. Different games are different. Doesn’t mean one is imbalanced.

90% stealth uptime =‘s wat. If a thief did do that… they they shouldn’t be able to out damage your healing unless you’re total glass and not very good at avoiding attacks.

If you just took the time to learn how to play against the new Vs. ask for the old you would be in a far better position.

I also have a stealthless evade thief myself. we can survive fine without the stealth spam. It IS ridiculous how it’s designed in this game. It needs more hard counters or needs to be completely reworked. As it is now, it’s only fun for the troll using it. It’s not the least bit fun for anyone fighting against it. Stealth IMO, has no place in a pvp game to begin with. It’s a cheap mechanic in general to hide in invisibility ganking someone from behind and taking out most of their health before they even know you’re there. Not the least bit fair or fun to go up against. I would be very happy if they jsut removed stealth altogether and just gave something else to mesmer and thief instead.

Having many more revealing moves would destroy thief. Many thieves rely on stealth for almost everything: condition removal, healing, and setting up attacks. They can’t fall back on massive hp and armor like wars, so it’s really not fair to give such massive hard counters away that will make a thief lose a well planned battle through no fault of their own.

Saying “it’s ok, because real thieves only evade” doesn’t really cut it, because you have to build specifically for that kind of thief. Neutering stealth neuters a vast array (I would say the majority) of viable thief builds.

Anet was very creative when they created the thief and they did a great job. Thief is a fun class and stealth is fine in this game.

You still take full damage in stealth, you can still be cc in stealth, you can be aoe in stealth, thief skills can be interrupted to prevent stealth, you can still hit enemies in stealth, and channel skills whether single or multiple hit will track a hit a thief in stealth.

In wvw Guards, Wars, Necro, Eles, Mesmers are the main classes which have the largest impact in the this game.

Though if something was done to change dp bs perma stealth thief while not touching other builds, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.

The problem is, even though it would take a few simple changes to fix most of the issues, Anet won’t do any of them as that would be admitting they were wrong and they will NEVER admit when they were wrong.

They should:

1) Add a “cripple” effect while people are in stealth
2) Remove the Leap on Heartseeker

In my opinion, make them changes and see what happens, rather than change a lot at the same time, make a few changes each time until its right.

Nikkinella.8254:

I also have a stealthless evade thief myself. we can survive fine without the stealth spam. It IS ridiculous how it’s designed in this game. It needs more hard counters or needs to be completely reworked. As it is now, it’s only fun for the troll using it. It’s not the least bit fun for anyone fighting against it. Stealth IMO, has no place in a pvp game to begin with. It’s a cheap mechanic in general to hide in invisibility ganking someone from behind and taking out most of their health before they even know you’re there. Not the least bit fair or fun to go up against. I would be very happy if they jsut removed stealth altogether and just gave something else to mesmer and thief instead.

My point was in other games you get a passive dodge like ability while being able to use all of your other skills and stun locking abilities, sorry if that wasn’t clear.

You should be able to mitigate or recover from a burst (don’t panic). If you can’t you might want to re-evaluate your gear/build/playstyle.

I have lots of fun fighting against thieves. I would much rather fight multiple backstab thieves than multiple cc spamming classes. Different people find different fights fun.

Not fair? Thief is not the best 1v1 class. Thief is not the best large group class. Some classes have access to tons of counters against thieves (ex eng/necro). Thief is good against lower skilled players/zerglings away from their zerg (if you’re built for groups, what are you doing roaming?)/players already in fights (but tbh if you jump some one already in a fight it doesn’t matter much what class you are)/ganking yaks/scouting/tapping keeps/etc. though.

I would like to know how the “90% stealth uptime” thief did diddly squat btw…

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The problem is, even though it would take a few simple changes to fix most of the issues, Anet won’t do any of them as that would be admitting they were wrong and they will NEVER admit when they were wrong.

They should:

1) Add a “cripple” effect while people are in stealth
2) Remove the Leap on Heartseeker

In my opinion, make them changes and see what happens, rather than change a lot at the same time, make a few changes each time until its right.

You obviously don’t play a thief because your cripple effect suggestion alone would destroy
almost all viable thief builds on a already sub par class.

A big part of thief survivability and offensivness is mobility. Lack boons and defensive skill means a thief needs stealth and mobility to avoid all the cluster kitten of cc and aoe condi spam if he is even going have a chance at being effective in combat.

Offensively thief need dat mobility to position himself to land a back stab unlike other prof who can spam there skills from any direction. It not easy to land bs on a moving target who actively trying to avoid it.

Also thief is not best in 1v1, small man action, or zerg play. The are great roamering, scouting and bursting down weakened or squishy enimies. Its almost as if there were purposely designed that way, oh wait!

A bad well built war, guard, necro, ele can still be quite effective for his group but a bad thief is just a dead weight rally bot.

The game is not balanced around solo unorganized inexperienced game play. Its balance under the assumption players know what they are doing so get you act together.

vincecontix.1264:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The problem is, even though it would take a few simple changes to fix most of the issues, Anet won’t do any of them as that would be admitting they were wrong and they will NEVER admit when they were wrong.

They should:

1) Add a “cripple” effect while people are in stealth
2) Remove the Leap on Heartseeker

In my opinion, make them changes and see what happens, rather than change a lot at the same time, make a few changes each time until its right.

You obviously don’t play a thief because your cripple effect suggestion alone would destroy
almost all viable thief builds on a already sub par class.

A big part of thief survivability and offensivness is mobility. Lack boons and defensive skill means a thief needs stealth and mobility to avoid all the cluster kitten of cc and aoe condi spam if he is even going have a chance at being effective in combat.

Offensively thief need dat mobility to position himself to land a back stab unlike other prof who can spam there skills from any direction. It not easy to land bs on a moving target who actively trying to avoid it.

Also thief is not best in 1v1, small man action, or zerg play. The are great roamering, scouting and bursting down weakened or squishy enimies. Its almost as if there were purposely designed that way, oh wait!

A bad well built war, guard, necro, ele can still be quite effective for his group but a bad thief is just a dead weight rally bot.

The game is not balanced around solo unorganized inexperienced game play. Its balance under the assumption players know what they are doing so get you act together.

Every other MMO with stealth has it doing just fine with such a change…So i dont see it being that much of a problem here, would stop them jumping into stealth every chance they get, would stop them from being easily able to run when they start to lose.

Sure, they would need slight buffs elsewhere to compensate, mostly just Toughness/armor adjustments i think to make it so they can take a little bit more damage but they would still have stealth to fall back on but it would be a HIGH cost situation rather than “lol, easy stealth” and using for the sake of simply being able to use it.

Yeah, shame that mobility helps them to much defensively as well, They can simply use this broken mechanic to burst some one down, force them to use cool downs, jump into stealth reset the fight easily and do it all over again. every other class has to deal with it, why should a class be allowed not to?

Lol, as if it really takes any skill to stealth up to someone who doesnt even know you are there and BS them, then use that same mechanic to run when/if they are at threat of dying. This sort of mechanic is nothing but high reward, with VERY little risk…

“balanced” you think this game is balanced? Hahahaha
This game is many things, balanced is not one of them.

just learn to move when a thief stealths, and don’t stand on the spot like a turret. This already give u a high counter vs a thief, since will have a rly high chance to miss a backstab = no damage.

Easlay.3297:

just learn to move when a thief stealths, and don’t stand on the spot like a turret. This already give u a high counter vs a thief, since will have a rly high chance to miss a backstab = no damage.

assuming that you see the thief coming…

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Yeah, shame that mobility helps them to much defensively as well, They can simply use this broken mechanic to burst some one down, force them to use cool downs, jump into stealth reset the fight easily and do it all over again. every other class has to deal with it, why should a class be allowed not to?

Lol, as if it really takes any skill to stealth up to someone who doesnt even know you are there and BS them, then use that same mechanic to run when/if they are at threat of dying. This sort of mechanic is nothing but high reward, with VERY little risk.

As a thief, my suggestion to you is to make a thief yourself. There’s only no risk involved if you don’t engage at all. If you don’t commit to the fight and only stealth to run away every time, you might as well not play at all. Sure, you might annoy a player every now and then, and during the timeframe you’re achieving absolutely nothing, other players are actually doing useful stuff. Most thieves actually choose to not play the way you’re describing.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

assuming that you see the thief coming…

Hardly ever are thieves stealthed before they engage the enemy. You can see a thief coming the same way you see a warrior coming, just by keeping an eye on your surroundings.

Another trolling stealth thread. fine.
Go and use the same arguments in the balance thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Class-balance-in-WvW-is-just-fine

There you will realize that many other classes are better than thieves in WvW.
If you have problems fighting thieves choose one of these options:

1. The enemy thief is an skilled player and would be with any other class.
2. You do not know how the thief class works, traits and other stuff.
3. You do not know how your class can fight a thief.
4. You are not as good player as you would like.

I have fought against tough guys in all the classes, even rangers. I have also found thief players better than me, even those based heavily based in stealth deserved the victory.
L2p issue here.
And I can talk freely because I was one of the top assasins in AOC, a game in which combat with the “assAsin” class was not dependent on stealth.
In this moment stealth is not op taking in account the rest of the skills and traits. It gives really interesting new ways of playing (ninja and roaming movements) and adds clues beyond zerging.
Tha game would be less funny without stealth.

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

There just needs to be a way for people to force stealth targets out of stealth. Whether its doing damage, some AoE ability, some passive aura around the player, I dont really know.

It isnt right that the only handicap to stealthing is the reveal debuff, which the thief/mesmer themselves is in control of (and that joke of a skill they gave to rangers, because we are all going to use a utility slot that is only useful vs 1/20 opponents) . Thats just wrong.

Something i find very odd:

Some thieves WANT stealth nerfed to need more skill involved, some DON’T want it nerfed…for what reason i wonder…