Guild Wars 2

I know there has been alot of threads on this but looks like they are old or I just missed one because my eye sight is bad, judging by older threads most pvpers don’t like downed state its a zerger/pve favored thing.

The one problem I have with gw2 pvp is downed state. I feel like thats something that belongs in PvE becasue for some fights you practically need it. But in pvp it’s just unfair. It’s a handicap to the players who have superior numbers.

Although in some much more rare situaitons where it favors the underdogs, the majority of the time it favors those who outnumber.

Let me give an example, so when I’m roaming alone as a scepter focus ele and I have to put extra effort into my fights, when I fight 3 on 1 and I keep dropping them but they keep rallying and ressing eachother (because what am i gonna do if my invuln is on CD?) I can’t afford to sit there and stomp you, i have 18k hp and I can’t afford to save my invuln for that moment because im fighting 3 on 1.

So when i drop someone in that situation i expect them to stay dead because it’s only fair.

Another example, say 30 people are sieging a tower. You have 8 people inside and most of them are on arrow carts. No matter how many people you down with those AC’s you can expect them to pop back up like daisies because they have a zerg out there. There is no hope in defending it unless u keep destroying their siege because killing the zergers themselves is out of the question due to downed state.

I believe removing downed state from pvp would make pvp more enjoyable. Maybe keep it in the obsidian sanctum because that’s more of a duelers area now but in borderlands/ebg/spvp just remove this pestilence known as downed state.

3vs1

I down one and do use my invulnerability to stomp him, now it is 2vs1 and I am still good in health. Play defensively for a bit now till your health is good and your burst is back, down 2nd player. Last one tries to rezz him. No problem, damage him as much as you can. Now you have 2 downed or 2 very weakened players. Finish the job and done.

I don’t really have anything against downed state, sometimes it works against me, sometimes it works in my favor. I don’t think it helps the zerg at all. I love seeing them trying to rezz and bomb on that location just to see the downed die and the rezzers getting downed.

Nope I like downed state.

No, I disagree. Taking someone down in a zerg, stomp and get away (or not) is one of the most enjoyable thing in this game.

If you can’t stomp you don’t deserve the win. As an ele you have plenty of knock down and knock backs to prevent the enemy from ressing. Down state is also not unlimited, each time you go down the rez is slower and after the 3rd time you are defeated completely.

Really, the best fix imo, remove #2 and #3 downed skills.

This way some classes don’t have cheap downed skills that stop all interrupts, while some are just laughable.

People saying, oh I’ll just stability stomp them, try that on a ele, mesmser, theif. Also, some of the classes downed abilities are just jokes.

With the two skills removed, it still allows skillful play around reviving your downed team mates and also weather or not to go for the stomp, because you know that the downed person can’t stop you.

Remove the downstate from pvp and wvw. If you die, die. What is that “second chance” of that new game for kitten players?

I remember the firsts online games, when you die you drop a lot of things or lose something like gold or experience. I miss Ultima Online and that kind of games. The games today are pretty easy, new gamers need easy games and GW2 is all about new gamers and easy stuff, easy pve, easy pvp and achievements. Everything in this game is a “easy mode” without punishment for lose.

I was never a big fan of downstate in PvP or WvW either, but I doubt they will ever remove it.

FINISH HIM

This is why I GW2.

urieldhynne.2743:

Remove the downstate from pvp and wvw. If you die, die. What is that “second chance” of that new game for kitten players?

I remember the firsts online games, when you die you drop a lot of things or lose something like gold or experience. I miss Ultima Online and that kind of games. The games today are pretty easy, new gamers need easy games and GW2 is all about new gamers and easy stuff, easy pve, easy pvp and achievements. Everything in this game is a “easy mode” without punishment for lose.

Then go back to those games…

MiLkZz.4789:

3vs1

I down one and do use my invulnerability to stomp him, now it is 2vs1 and I am still good in health. Play defensively for a bit now till your health is good and your burst is back, down 2nd player. Last one tries to rezz him. No problem, damage him as much as you can. Now you have 2 downed or 2 very weakened players. Finish the job and done.

I don’t really have anything against downed state, sometimes it works against me, sometimes it works in my favor. I don’t think it helps the zerg at all. I love seeing them trying to rezz and bomb on that location just to see the downed die and the rezzers getting downed.

Nope I like downed state.

If i was fighting 3 uplevels then i could do this however vs competent players downed state makes it near impossible for me to win any 2v1 or 3v1 situaiton where i don’t have my invuln up.

Unrelated to the quote, i feel like downed state is really just for all the lesser pvpers in pvp who get dropped to fast to get a second chance. Stomping someone gets me killed more than actually dying fair does. why? Because even if i do stop them using an invuln i now just wasted my invuln killing somebody who should already be dead.

urieldhynne.2743:

Remove the downstate from pvp and wvw. If you die, die. What is that “second chance” of that new game for kitten players?

I remember the firsts online games, when you die you drop a lot of things or lose something like gold or experience. I miss Ultima Online and that kind of games. The games today are pretty easy, new gamers need easy games and GW2 is all about new gamers and easy stuff, easy pve, easy pvp and achievements. Everything in this game is a “easy mode” without punishment for lose.

Uuuuh the problem with this is that Anet advertised this game with this game mechanic and the game has been out so its not a surprised down state is there. And if it is so bad go back to those other games. No one is forcing you to play this one.

kelman.9451:

I was never a big fan of downstate in PvP or WvW either, but I doubt they will ever remove it.

This is how i feel unfortunately anet looks at this as a unique “we thought of it first” sort of thing (call of duty last stand anyone?) but to the other poster, i wouldn’t mind downed state abilities #2 and #3 being removed either. In a fight where im outnumbered i don’t bother trying to stomp thieves because they take to long to stomp.

Teleport away from my stomp last second, then invis for my 2nd stomp. I knocked you into downed state faster than i can stomp you in it. Just sad really this mechanic ruins alot of pvp experiences for me. Meanwhile you’re other 2 teammates are stabbing me in the back while im trying to finish off this person who i already bested in battle.

Don’t get me wrong downed state saves me all the time as an ele, i just mist form into the nearest tower/keep entrance all the time. Impossible to kill me if im near a tower or keep entrance. But im not bias in my decision. I still believe this needs to be gotten rid of in pvp. Downed state is what makes me reconsider going back to other games for pvp.

kamedin.4698:

urieldhynne.2743:

Remove the downstate from pvp and wvw. If you die, die. What is that “second chance” of that new game for kitten players?

I remember the firsts online games, when you die you drop a lot of things or lose something like gold or experience. I miss Ultima Online and that kind of games. The games today are pretty easy, new gamers need easy games and GW2 is all about new gamers and easy stuff, easy pve, easy pvp and achievements. Everything in this game is a “easy mode” without punishment for lose.

Uuuuh the problem with this is that Anet advertised this game with this game mechanic and the game has been out so its not a surprised down state is there. And if it is so bad go back to those other games. No one is forcing you to play this one.

You watch your favorite movies over and over because some new movies are bad? no, you search new ones. You play your old favorite games over and over because you havent what play online? no, you search new ones.

I have hope in this game because GW1, but with every change my hope for this game is going down. Surely i going to move to the next new online game (with a lot of people) is matter of time, because arenanet is failing in a lot of thing and they know it, they are losing players, is a fact, in only one year since the release, search for “most played games in this year” search in twitch tv for streaming and what people watch, you ll see what games are losing players and which ones not.

Arenanet is keeping this game alive with desperate things (living world, farming ascended, new achievements, more fractals levels) players are getting bored, because in easy games or less complex ones you get bored fast, is what happen in this game, is for that a lot of people say “there is not endgame content” because there is not. Only farming and easy pvp modes without a good ranking or championship to be real competitive. This is not a eSport game, and never will be. Not with the current pvp modes (spvp and wvw)

Yes, down-state is a terrible mechanic for PvP.

The OPs analysis is correct. The mechanics of downed-state are fundamentally snowballing.(I.e. advantageous to larger numbers).

Rallying just further exasperates the issue.

We have complained about this feature for a while now but ANet doesn’t seem to want to hear it. Maybe the feature is too fundamental to GW2’s game-play for it to be changed but I don’t believe so.

I just think they’re oblivious to many of the problems in this game. Maybe they don’t frequent the forums enough or play their own game, I don’t know.

But for a while now it’s been apparent how detrimental downed-state is to PvP in this game.

This has continually been brought up over the past few months. Something will have to be done about it eventually; either removing downed state completely or making it a grandmaster trait.

Eh, are you complaining that you can’t win 1v3s because the downed state exists? It’s a 1v3. Are you even supposed to be able to win that? What if I complained I don’t deal enough damage because I can’t win 1v100 fights before they killed me?

Also if you have 8 people on ACs and down people, it’s hard for them to get ressed because the AC fire is murderous on the would-be ressers. Even if they do get ressed they will be quite low on HP for a while. If an allied zerg pushes with AC backup will generally win the fight.

I have no problems with the mechanic and I view it as just the way the game works. It’s like how characters in GW2 can’t fly or how each downed state has four skills. The game’s built that way. No complaints.

Down state is a mechanic to cap the power of highly skilled, experienced players. If power scaled with skill, then 10 mans would be wiping 60 man zergs. Ditto for aoe caps. A game that lets experienced/skilled players completely dominate would end up driving most people away, and become a niche game with a much smaller population.

The down state works quite well for what it was intended to do. It’s frustrating at times, but I’d rather see a game where the large majority of people can have fun and get in a win, then a game dominated just by the hardcore players.

You don’t need to remove it completely, just fix rally mechanics (1 kill 2 rally max etc.), no ressing fully dead players while in combat, lower healing on downed players, lower the HP on rally, put a DR on multiple ressers, and balance the kitten downed states.

It’s redic how much of a difference there is between the different classes downed states 1 year into the game… and it’s 3 kittening skills (4th is universal). If I’m downed on my ele I’m like whatever… kittenol back inside a tower/keep/back to allies. If I’m downed on my eng… try to pull them to me, have it fail, get stomped.

ATM it just promotes blobbing too much and needs to be toned down.

Jeydra.4386:

Eh, are you complaining that you can’t win 1v3s because the downed state exists? It’s a 1v3. Are you even supposed to be able to win that?

Yes you should be able to win a 1v3 if you outskill your opponents that much. They already have a number advantage (3x damage, cc, etc.). Why do 3 people need yet another advantage on top of that? Shouldn’t they learn to play instead of relying on a crutch?

Tricare.2946:

Really, the best fix imo, remove #2 and #3 downed skills.

This way some classes don’t have cheap downed skills that stop all interrupts, while some are just laughable.

People saying, oh I’ll just stability stomp them, try that on a ele, mesmser, theif. Also, some of the classes downed abilities are just jokes.

With the two skills removed, it still allows skillful play around reviving your downed team mates and also weather or not to go for the stomp, because you know that the downed person can’t stop you.

I would say that stomping on a mesmer isn’t that bad actually. You can shatter for distortion for an invulnerable stomp, mass invis stomp if there’s no other players trying to stomp, the prestige from the torch can also allow an invis stomp. If you use a MH sword go in with blurred frenzy to bait them into their KB’s and then stomp. If that fails, and you get KB’d you can use blink to get back to them quickly to get the stomp off. While the Mesmer certainly isn’t the best class for stomping I’ve found quite a few ways to be competent at it.

The others I can’t speak for as I only really enjoy my Mesmer. As for downed state, I like both the opportunity it provides to survive and keep fighting as well as the challenge to really finish a player off.

Downed state is meh, bigger issue IMO is the ability to hard res in combat.

Nothing more hilarious than having your group of 3 people wipe the floor with a bad zerg of 10 players, only to see the battle become pointless when the zerglings eventually figure out that they can win the fight by simply dogpiling their stomped ally corpses and continuously hard revive them right in your face.

Really stupid mechanic that merely favors who has more numbers.

Aberrant.6749:

ATM it just promotes blobbing too much and needs to be toned down.

Jeydra.4386:

Eh, are you complaining that you can’t win 1v3s because the downed state exists? It’s a 1v3. Are you even supposed to be able to win that?

Yes you should be able to win a 1v3 if you outskill your opponents that much. They already have a number advantage (3x damage, cc, etc.). Why do 3 people need yet another advantage on top of that? Shouldn’t they learn to play instead of relying on a crutch?

My point exactly

Razamatazz.9628:

Tricare.2946:

Really, the best fix imo, remove #2 and #3 downed skills.

This way some classes don’t have cheap downed skills that stop all interrupts, while some are just laughable.

People saying, oh I’ll just stability stomp them, try that on a ele, mesmser, theif. Also, some of the classes downed abilities are just jokes.

With the two skills removed, it still allows skillful play around reviving your downed team mates and also weather or not to go for the stomp, because you know that the downed person can’t stop you.

I would say that stomping on a mesmer isn’t that bad actually. You can shatter for distortion for an invulnerable stomp, mass invis stomp if there’s no other players trying to stomp, the prestige from the torch can also allow an invis stomp. If you use a MH sword go in with blurred frenzy to bait them into their KB’s and then stomp. If that fails, and you get KB’d you can use blink to get back to them quickly to get the stomp off. While the Mesmer certainly isn’t the best class for stomping I’ve found quite a few ways to be competent at it.

The others I can’t speak for as I only really enjoy my Mesmer. As for downed state, I like both the opportunity it provides to survive and keep fighting as well as the challenge to really finish a player off.

You misunderstood him. He meant try to stomp a Mesmer, not try to stomp as a Mesmer, which is incredibly easy to do.

That’s right, you can’t. Those three classes have a 100 percent guaranteed stomp avoidance. They also happen to be two of the slipperiest classes to down in the first place.

If you are going to use a downed state, it should be fair. I would prefer it get removed personally. Or make ressing downed players interrupted on damage. At the very least if I interrupt you ressing someone, there should be a cool down of 5 seconds before you can go res them again.

snacktime.1082:

Down state is a mechanic to cap the power of highly skilled, experienced players. If power scaled with skill, then 10 mans would be wiping 60 man zergs. Ditto for aoe caps. A game that lets experienced/skilled players completely dominate would end up driving most people away, and become a niche game with a much smaller population.

The down state works quite well for what it was intended to do. It’s frustrating at times, but I’d rather see a game where the large majority of people can have fun and get in a win, then a game dominated just by the hardcore players.

What? A game that lets skilled and experienced players hold their own against multiple enemies would be such a travesty!

That’s basically what you’re saying. If I or anyone else am skilled enough to hold my own in a 1v3 then we deserve to win, those 3 deserve to be on the floor deader than roadkill. Even with friends in a 3v 8+ it’s already hard to win against odds like that but when downed state comes into the equation it just complicates things so much more.

We can down someone but when 2-5 people instantly jump on his body they res him faster than i can push F to even start the stomp.

And removing downed state won’t drive people away that’s a ridiculous thought. No body says " I play gw2 because of downed state" thats like saying “i play gw2 because i die all the time” If anything doing this will just bring back the better pvpers that anet chased away.

Aberrant.6749:

Yes you should be able to win a 1v3 if you outskill your opponents that much. They already have a number advantage (3x damage, cc, etc.). Why do 3 people need yet another advantage on top of that? Shouldn’t they learn to play instead of relying on a crutch?

Indeed, why should they? In 1v3 cases, let’s restrict the side with 3 to only using autoattacks.

Simply, you didn’t win the 1v3. You downed, but did not kill. What’s so different about that from “I got them to 50%, but not 0%”?

Jeydra.4386:

Aberrant.6749:

Yes you should be able to win a 1v3 if you outskill your opponents that much. They already have a number advantage (3x damage, cc, etc.). Why do 3 people need yet another advantage on top of that? Shouldn’t they learn to play instead of relying on a crutch?

Indeed, why should they? In 1v3 cases, let’s restrict the side with 3 to only using autoattacks.

Simply, you didn’t win the 1v3. You downed, but did not kill. What’s so different about that from “I got them to 50%, but not 0%”?

Because at 50percent hp I cannot spam f on my allies to heal them for ludicrous amounts of life.

The 3 players have every right to use any and all skills at their disposal before their hp reaches zero, at which point the downed mechanic is far too forgiving for the downed player and more so for certain downed classes

Downed state used to be an issue for me, now I don’t really care. With all of the stupid interrupts people have I can actually down them enough times to where they just die straight away. Unless you have ez-mode stomping like engi elixir, thief invis, mist form, etc, it’s not even worth it in a 1vX setting.

Rallying is too easy in general and there needs to be a smaller limit. The limit now is like 4 or 5 times before you just die anyway, but it needs to be two or even one rally allowed. There are NPCs almost everywhere in WvW and most downed skills have 900+ range so if you down someone they can constantly rally off of an NPC, and if you try to stomp they will just interrupt/friend will save/they’ll rally off an NPC. It’s total crap. I was 1v2’ing some people earlier and this guy kept rallying on wolves over by umberglade and I was eventually “outplayed” (lol). I don’t expect downed to be removed permanently from WVW because too many people would cry and ANET just doesn’t care in general, so greatly reducing the amount of rallies before death is the only solution.

The real problem is full reviving from death. This should not be possible in WvW. Straight to spawn, or just lay there dead. Idc about spying, but being able to power rez your team mates is just so kitten cheap and it shouldn’t be in WvW. There is literally no point to doing anything not zerg v zerg if people can just come back indefinitely.

Rennoko.5731:

Jeydra.4386:

Aberrant.6749:

Yes you should be able to win a 1v3 if you outskill your opponents that much. They already have a number advantage (3x damage, cc, etc.). Why do 3 people need yet another advantage on top of that? Shouldn’t they learn to play instead of relying on a crutch?

Indeed, why should they? In 1v3 cases, let’s restrict the side with 3 to only using autoattacks.

Simply, you didn’t win the 1v3. You downed, but did not kill. What’s so different about that from “I got them to 50%, but not 0%”?

Because at 50percent hp I cannot spam f on my allies to heal them for ludicrous amounts of life.

The 3 players have every right to use any and all skills at their disposal before their hp reaches zero, at which point the downed mechanic is far too forgiving for the downed player and more so for certain downed classes

Too bad?

That’s like saying Mist Form, Distortion, Death Shroud, etc, are far too forgiving and should be removed.

Downstate = No problem

Getting back up in PvP/WvW when some level 5 squishy of the opposing zerg dies = Problem

Jeydra.4386:

Too bad?

That’s like saying Mist Form, Distortion, Death Shroud, etc, are far too forgiving and should be removed.

I have a feeling you go down a lot when you have 2-3 people against 1 person.

Tricare.2946:

Jeydra.4386:

Too bad?

That’s like saying Mist Form, Distortion, Death Shroud, etc, are far too forgiving and should be removed.

I have a feeling you go down a lot when you have 2-3 people against 1 person.

Not directing this at anyone but that is unfortunately who the downed state mechanic favors.

Rennoko.5731:

Jeydra.4386:

Aberrant.6749:

Yes you should be able to win a 1v3 if you outskill your opponents that much. They already have a number advantage (3x damage, cc, etc.). Why do 3 people need yet another advantage on top of that? Shouldn’t they learn to play instead of relying on a crutch?

Indeed, why should they? In 1v3 cases, let’s restrict the side with 3 to only using autoattacks.

Simply, you didn’t win the 1v3. You downed, but did not kill. What’s so different about that from “I got them to 50%, but not 0%”?

Because at 50percent hp I cannot spam f on my allies to heal them for ludicrous amounts of life.

The 3 players have every right to use any and all skills at their disposal before their hp reaches zero, at which point the downed mechanic is far too forgiving for the downed player and more so for certain downed classes

I don’t understand why people think a 1v3 fight should be handed to them. It’s a completely unbalanced fight. Yes there are people who can handle them, even with downed-state. But in all honesty, most fights should end with the group of three facerolling over the lone person.

If you are good/skilled enough to fight 3 people and win, you should be able to stomp them. If you can’t complete the stomp and kill them, then you are not as good as you think you are. End of story.

Tibstrike.2974:

Rennoko.5731:

Jeydra.4386:

Aberrant.6749:

Yes you should be able to win a 1v3 if you outskill your opponents that much. They already have a number advantage (3x damage, cc, etc.). Why do 3 people need yet another advantage on top of that? Shouldn’t they learn to play instead of relying on a crutch?

Indeed, why should they? In 1v3 cases, let’s restrict the side with 3 to only using autoattacks.

Simply, you didn’t win the 1v3. You downed, but did not kill. What’s so different about that from “I got them to 50%, but not 0%”?

Because at 50percent hp I cannot spam f on my allies to heal them for ludicrous amounts of life.

The 3 players have every right to use any and all skills at their disposal before their hp reaches zero, at which point the downed mechanic is far too forgiving for the downed player and more so for certain downed classes

I don’t understand why people think a 1v3 fight should be handed to them. It’s a completely unbalanced fight. Yes there are people who can handle them, even with downed-state. But in all honesty, most fights should end with the group of three facerolling over the lone person.

If you are good/skilled enough to fight 3 people and win, you should be able to stomp them. If you can’t complete the stomp and kill them, then you are not as good as you think you are. End of story.

Not at all true. Stomping someone doesn’t involve skill. It invovles you being able to take a pounding for like 4-5 seconds straight. or for you to blow a damage reduction/invuln cooldown just to stomp an individual who you already bested in a fight.

The fight to get the person down took skill lol that means you are the superior player, however, the stomping part is what doesn’t take any skill at all. It’s a waste of time, it’s a snowball funfest and its a handicap to those who already have superior numbers Gw2 logic: “just incase this guy is good enough to take the 3 of us, let’s just keep ressing eachother till we win, he is going to run out of cooldowns eventually”

That’s why this doesn’t belong in pvp.

Senjun.8149:

Tibstrike.2974:

Rennoko.5731:

Jeydra.4386:

Aberrant.6749:

Yes you should be able to win a 1v3 if you outskill your opponents that much. They already have a number advantage (3x damage, cc, etc.). Why do 3 people need yet another advantage on top of that? Shouldn’t they learn to play instead of relying on a crutch?

Indeed, why should they? In 1v3 cases, let’s restrict the side with 3 to only using autoattacks.

Simply, you didn’t win the 1v3. You downed, but did not kill. What’s so different about that from “I got them to 50%, but not 0%”?

Because at 50percent hp I cannot spam f on my allies to heal them for ludicrous amounts of life.

The 3 players have every right to use any and all skills at their disposal before their hp reaches zero, at which point the downed mechanic is far too forgiving for the downed player and more so for certain downed classes

I don’t understand why people think a 1v3 fight should be handed to them. It’s a completely unbalanced fight. Yes there are people who can handle them, even with downed-state. But in all honesty, most fights should end with the group of three facerolling over the lone person.

If you are good/skilled enough to fight 3 people and win, you should be able to stomp them. If you can’t complete the stomp and kill them, then you are not as good as you think you are. End of story.

Not at all true. Stomping someone doesn’t involve skill. It invovles you being able to take a pounding for like 4-5 seconds straight. or for you to blow a damage reduction/invuln cooldown just to stomp an individual who you already bested in a fight.

The fight to get the person down took skill lol that means you are the superior player, however, the stomping part is what doesn’t take any skill at all. It’s a waste of time, it’s a snowball funfest and its a handicap to those who already have superior numbers (just incase this guy is good enough to take the 3 of us, let’s just keep ressing eachother till we win, he is going to run out of cooldowns eventually)

That’s why this doesn’t belong in pvp.

Your problem is that you don’t seem to include down state as part of the fight for some reason. Everyone has it, and hell, people can trait to due lots of damage in it as well. So when you go into a fight, you have to position yourself with this in mind. This may include dragging the fight away from the downed person and rapidly moving back for the stomp. If you watch people fighting solo in outnumbered fights, they take this state of the game and include it in their playstyle. People wait for people to start ressing and unload on the rezzers. Even if they get their friend up, you now have 2 people with less than 50% health to deal with instead of one down, and one with full health. Keep the pressure on em and they will go down. Then stomp.

I hate to say this, but its a l2p issue. Learn to fight with downed-state in mind and you will have an easier time. If not, go to fight clubs or duel locations and feel free to just down people and back off. Don’t take on 3 people and expect them not to rez eachother. This is not a fair game. Especially WvW.

Spicyhash.7605:

Downed state used to be an issue for me, now I don’t really care. With all of the stupid interrupts people have I can actually down them enough times to where they just die straight away. Unless you have ez-mode stomping like engi elixir, thief invis, mist form, etc, it’s not even worth it in a 1vX setting.

Rallying is too easy in general and there needs to be a smaller limit. The limit now is like 4 or 5 times before you just die anyway, but it needs to be two or even one rally allowed. There are NPCs almost everywhere in WvW and most downed skills have 900+ range so if you down someone they can constantly rally off of an NPC, and if you try to stomp they will just interrupt/friend will save/they’ll rally off an NPC. It’s total crap. I was 1v2’ing some people earlier and this guy kept rallying on wolves over by umberglade and I was eventually “outplayed” (lol). I don’t expect downed to be removed permanently from WVW because too many people would cry and ANET just doesn’t care in general, so greatly reducing the amount of rallies before death is the only solution.

The real problem is full reviving from death. This should not be possible in WvW. Straight to spawn, or just lay there dead. Idc about spying, but being able to power rez your team mates is just so kitten cheap and it shouldn’t be in WvW. There is literally no point to doing anything not zerg v zerg if people can just come back indefinitely.

I can see your point. If anet is so hellbent on keeping downed state in pvp then they should at the very least increase the amount of time it takes to res someone. (damage interupts the action, healing reduced by 50-80%, downed skills #2 and #3 removed) so much can be done.

If i down someone and immediately go for a stomp. within half a second someone starts to res them, they will res faster than i can stomp. That’s a problem that needs to be looked into at the very least.

Or at the very least give the people who just rallied a debuff called “wounded”

what wounded means is you just got your kitten handed to you and you need to recover. While in wounded state you deal 50% less damage and take 50% extra damage for 10 seconds.

Tibstrike.2974:

Senjun.8149:

Tibstrike.2974:

Rennoko.5731:

Jeydra.4386:

Aberrant.6749:

Yes you should be able to win a 1v3 if you outskill your opponents that much. They already have a number advantage (3x damage, cc, etc.). Why do 3 people need yet another advantage on top of that? Shouldn’t they learn to play instead of relying on a crutch?

Indeed, why should they? In 1v3 cases, let’s restrict the side with 3 to only using autoattacks.

Simply, you didn’t win the 1v3. You downed, but did not kill. What’s so different about that from “I got them to 50%, but not 0%”?

Because at 50percent hp I cannot spam f on my allies to heal them for ludicrous amounts of life.

The 3 players have every right to use any and all skills at their disposal before their hp reaches zero, at which point the downed mechanic is far too forgiving for the downed player and more so for certain downed classes

I don’t understand why people think a 1v3 fight should be handed to them. It’s a completely unbalanced fight. Yes there are people who can handle them, even with downed-state. But in all honesty, most fights should end with the group of three facerolling over the lone person.

If you are good/skilled enough to fight 3 people and win, you should be able to stomp them. If you can’t complete the stomp and kill them, then you are not as good as you think you are. End of story.

Not at all true. Stomping someone doesn’t involve skill. It invovles you being able to take a pounding for like 4-5 seconds straight. or for you to blow a damage reduction/invuln cooldown just to stomp an individual who you already bested in a fight.

The fight to get the person down took skill lol that means you are the superior player, however, the stomping part is what doesn’t take any skill at all. It’s a waste of time, it’s a snowball funfest and its a handicap to those who already have superior numbers (just incase this guy is good enough to take the 3 of us, let’s just keep ressing eachother till we win, he is going to run out of cooldowns eventually)

That’s why this doesn’t belong in pvp.

Your problem is that you don’t seem to include down state as part of the fight for some reason. Everyone has it, and hell, people can trait to due lots of damage in it as well. So when you go into a fight, you have to position yourself with this in mind. This may include dragging the fight away from the downed person and rapidly moving back for the stomp. If you watch people fighting solo in outnumbered fights, they take this state of the game and include it in their playstyle. People wait for people to start ressing and unload on the rezzers. Even if they get their friend up, you now have 2 people with less than 50% health to deal with instead of one down, and one with full health. Keep the pressure on em and they will go down. Then stomp.

I hate to say this, but its a l2p issue. Learn to fight with downed-state in mind and you will have an easier time. If not, go to fight clubs or duel locations and feel free to just down people and back off. Don’t take on 3 people and expect them not to rez eachother. This is not a fair game. Especially WvW.

This isn’t an l2p issue at all. Everything people have suggested in here “do this, do that! Downed state isnt so bad” I do it all the time because I have to. Questioning my common sense as a pvper in these situations is pretty unnecessary and so is giving suggestions, i know what im doing.

I do fight with downed state in mind all the time I have to, it’s like a pair of shackles i can’t remove and meanwhile (since im always fighting against the odds) it’s a pair of crutches to my enemy.

But just because downed mechanic is part of this and im fully aware of it, does not mean i can’t suggest for it to be tweaked or even removed. As a pvper who still usually manages to come out on top in these situations i find it to be a complete inconvenience. It’s not fun, or engaging to then have to stomp my enemy after i worked so hard to knock him down. Especially not when i have a backstab thief on me while he has a friend over there ressing him back up. Then the fight starts all over again and i have to drop him… AGAIN.

If i didn’t know how to pvp, i wouldn’t be complaining about the downed mechanic infact I would love it because that’s mostly who the downed state favors. The lesser pvpers. But as an active pvper i despise everything about it except for the fact i can troll zergs just outside of towers and keeps by going down, doing damage to siege and mist forming back inside when im downed.

Tibstrike.2974:

I hate to say this, but its a l2p issue. Learn to fight with downed-state in mind and you will have an easier time. If not, go to fight clubs or duel locations and feel free to just down people and back off. Don’t take on 3 people and expect them not to rez eachother. This is not a fair game. Especially WvW.

It’s not a l2p issue. Downed states are unbalanced atm.

When you go into the downed state, the game is pretty much saying “you lost, here’s a 2nd chance to try and not suck” Which favors the zerg mentality. I’m going to have to say that most people who defend the downed state, need it the most.

As for the downed state skills, those need to be fixed, or just removed and only auto-attack/heal left in. Three of the classes can stop all stomps no matter what, while the rest are susceptible to 2 people stomping at once or stability stomp.

snacktime.1082:

[1] Down state is a mechanic to cap the power of highly skilled, experienced players. [2] If power scaled with skill, then 10 mans would be wiping 60 man zergs. Ditto for aoe caps. [3] A game that lets experienced/skilled players completely dominate would end up driving most people away, and become a niche game with a much smaller population.

1. Down state isn’t needed to cap player power. Limited player capability already does this
2. Power does scale with skill. But because players have limited capability, skill isn’t the only factor for determining combat and therefore quantity yields an advantage
3. True! However segregating players based on skill directly solves this problem

Tibstrike.2974:

I hate to say this, but its a l2p issue. Learn to fight with downed-state in mind and you will have an easier time. If not, go to fight clubs or duel locations and feel free to just down people and back off. Don’t take on 3 people and expect them not to rez eachother. This is not a fair game. Especially WvW.

What did you mean by “This is not a fair game”, in the context — speaking about down state?

Or did you take it out of context? In which case I have no idea why you mentioned it.

If you’re playing competently in an out-manned group, you know that the people rezzing are going to be free kills doing no damage.

Also, necro has very little access to stability while guardian has stability godmode, that’s not fair we should make all the classes the same, amirite?

Tricare.2946:

When you go into the downed state, the game is pretty much saying “you lost, here’s a 2nd chance to try and not suck” Which favors the zerg mentality.

The game is presenting you with the option to revive your team mate, or let him die, and there’s an opportunity cost involved in both that you have to think about and strategize to come out on top. That adds a layer of complexity to all fights that are not full out 20+ zergs. When you HAVE 20+ zergs involved, stomping really makes no difference to the outcome of the match, you either have enough momentum to kill everyone or you don’t and die.

The only time stomping is truly disruptive is when you are harassing a much larger group by trying to pick off players one by one – it’s no longer possible if the group is coordinated enough to have a tight train with no stragglers. If that’s the case, it’s part of the game design for the larger group to come out on top, and you’ll just have to fight smarter if you want the kills. It’s not up to the players to say “it’s unfair I can’t get the kills I deserve because of the game mechanics” – you don’t deserve the kill in the first place if you can’t find a way to make that stomp.

Opc.4718:

If you’re playing competently in an out-manned group, you know that the people rezzing are going to be free kills doing no damage.

I’m not going to back & forwards argue about different counter abilities that could fit the scenario.
What I will argue is that down state (mechanically), demotes skill as a determining factor of combat, which is unhealthy for the competitive prosperity of the game.

Opc.4718:

Also, necro has very little access to stability while guardian has stability godmode, that’s not fair we should make all the classes the same, amirite?

Profession specific ability is not the same as game-wide mechanics.
…

Erebos.6741:

snacktime.1082:

[1] Down state is a mechanic to cap the power of highly skilled, experienced players. [2] If power scaled with skill, then 10 mans would be wiping 60 man zergs. Ditto for aoe caps. [3] A game that lets experienced/skilled players completely dominate would end up driving most people away, and become a niche game with a much smaller population.

1. Down state isn’t needed to cap player power. Limited player capability already does this
2. Power does scale with skill. But because players have limited capability, skill isn’t the only factor for determining combat and therefore quantity yields an advantage
3. True! However segregating players based on skill directly solves this problem

Power and skill do not scale on the same curve. Outnumbering your opponent gives a huge advantage by design, through mechanics like down state and in combat rezzing.

There have been other games such as Daoc where power and skill scaled much more in line with each other. A 10 man squad could take out a 100 man zerg. Not every day, but I saw it happen more then a few times. Unskilled, inexperienced players were at a huge disadvantage.

Down state plus low damage output/weak healing and high health pools is what makes superior numbers the first order optimal strategy. If you took out the down state, skill would become much more of a factor in most fights.

snacktime.1082:

If you took out the down state, skill would become much more of a factor in most fights.

Lolno, it will just promote current meta to absolute, go bunker or go to respawn.

snacktime.1082:

Power and skill do not scale on the same curve.

By power do you mean effectiveness?

If so, skill is directly proportional!
The higher skilled a player the better they perform/affect the match. This is common sense.

snacktime.1082:

If you took out the down state, skill would become much more of a factor in most fights.

At least we agree on something.

Senjun.8149:

snacktime.1082:

Down state is a mechanic to cap the power of highly skilled, experienced players. If power scaled with skill, then 10 mans would be wiping 60 man zergs. Ditto for aoe caps. A game that lets experienced/skilled players completely dominate would end up driving most people away, and become a niche game with a much smaller population.

The down state works quite well for what it was intended to do. It’s frustrating at times, but I’d rather see a game where the large majority of people can have fun and get in a win, then a game dominated just by the hardcore players.

What? A game that lets skilled and experienced players hold their own against multiple enemies would be such a travesty!

That’s basically what you’re saying. If I or anyone else am skilled enough to hold my own in a 1v3 then we deserve to win, those 3 deserve to be on the floor deader than roadkill. Even with friends in a 3v 8+ it’s already hard to win against odds like that but when downed state comes into the equation it just complicates things so much more.

We can down someone but when 2-5 people instantly jump on his body they res him faster than i can push F to even start the stomp.

And removing downed state won’t drive people away that’s a ridiculous thought. No body says " I play gw2 because of downed state" thats like saying “i play gw2 because i die all the time” If anything doing this will just bring back the better pvpers that anet chased away.

Too late for that, most likely.

They said they are looking into it months ago so i am sure a change will be on the way soon..

Now for the weather in Tyria: Sunny with a chance of whenever, whatever man.

snacktime.1082:

Erebos.6741:

snacktime.1082:

[1] Down state is a mechanic to cap the power of highly skilled, experienced players. [2] If power scaled with skill, then 10 mans would be wiping 60 man zergs. Ditto for aoe caps. [3] A game that lets experienced/skilled players completely dominate would end up driving most people away, and become a niche game with a much smaller population.

1. Down state isn’t needed to cap player power. Limited player capability already does this
2. Power does scale with skill. But because players have limited capability, skill isn’t the only factor for determining combat and therefore quantity yields an advantage
3. True! However segregating players based on skill directly solves this problem

Power and skill do not scale on the same curve. Outnumbering your opponent gives a huge advantage by design, through mechanics like down state and in combat rezzing.

There have been other games such as Daoc where power and skill scaled much more in line with each other. A 10 man squad could take out a 100 man zerg. Not every day, but I saw it happen more then a few times. Unskilled, inexperienced players were at a huge disadvantage.

Down state plus low damage output/weak healing and high health pools is what makes superior numbers the first order optimal strategy. If you took out the down state, skill would become much more of a factor in most fights.

And in pvp that’s a good thing. That is what brings pvpers from other games that are to care-bearish to games that offer more in terms of skill.

If 10 people are good enough to beat odds even as much as 3 to 1, they deserve to win instead of just going “ok lets down as many people as we can we can’t possibly win this due to downed state” they should be able to go "ok lets try and kill all of them.

Without downed state for example a group of 10 people could charge into a group of 30 and have hope for winning. But with downed state that group of 30 not only has the advantage of superior numbers but also the advantage of more hands to res allies and more numbers to protect downed allies by pressuring stompers,interuptign stompers, stealthing/shielding/ aoeing all over the downed areas. This is unfair.

Why give handicap to those who already outnumber? I wish anet would answer that. THIS IS NOT HOW PVP WORKS

Downed is a fun mechanic but could use some tweaks, downed healing should be interuptable by damage. Rally should be 1 to 1 or 2 to 1 at most. Rally should only be off guards and players.

this makes skills that instant rally people more important and should make then more widely used. This limits rally because really 10 people rallying off a fire fly is kittenty. Yet it still leaves the mechanic in the game and lets people who use it right take advantage of it.

Downed state feels like a good and fun PvE addition to the game. It has no place in WvW and should be “turned off” while in WvW areas.

Downed state is broken for multiple reasons in wvw, and many stem from stupid mechanics in the game already.
First I’ll put my ‘tiers’ list of downed state:

Tier 1:
Thief: 2 stomp preventions, teleport and stealth which can be chained.
Mesmer: 1 stomp prevention, clone that has a stealth built into it that further delays a stomp.
Elementalist: 1 stomp prevention, mist form that provides 3 seconds of delaying a stomp. Plus if they are able to get enough distance they can root to delay a stomp even longer.
Tier 2: These are just as strong as tier 1, unless the people stomping have stability, then it negates the downed state.
Guardian: 1 stomp prevention, aoe knock back with a heal to heal other people attempting a revive and the Guardian.
Ranger: 1 stomp prevention, aoe daze with a pet heal thats broken as hell underwater.
Tier 3: These are single target CCs and are negated by stability or more than 1 person stomping.
Warrior: 1 stomp prevention, single target knock down. Their 3 ability can be strong, but that requires the 2nd stomp to be stopped in some way.
Necro: 1 stomp prevention, single target fear.
Engineer: 2 stomp prevention, single target pull and big bomb thats on a long timer.

These need to be balanced out if u want to keep it in the game. As it stands right now it benefits the people that have more players. With the small map sizes and 5-man aoe cap, the larger group doesn’t need to have another mechanic working in their favor. Thats 4 reasons to run in a larger group, and its ignorant. The only reason to run in smaller groups is because you enjoy a challenge. Its easy to see why most people zerg.

I love that down state exists, it adds more elements of play. It brings in more strategy. I’ve often used downed teammates as bait so I can kill the person who downed them. Or I will use a downed enemy to bait his friend into trying to res him, then I beat up the guy ressing and I now have 2 kills!

The only real issue I have with down state is that it’s too easy to rally. In PvE I understand kill 1 mob, rally, ok. But in WvW you should have to meet some more criteria before you are allowed to rally off a certain target. I think either multiple targets should have to die to rally you. Or that you need to reach a higher damage threshold than just “tagging” someone. Possibly a combination of both.

As a WvW and sPvP player, I like that downed-state exists. I feel that the game meta would be so burst focused without it that it would be incredibly boring.