Guild Wars 2

Let me put this survey into perspective using a real life situation. In England, a small majority voted to leave the EU. People without the knowledge of what would happen had their votes count, and now we’re looking at a world-wide economic crisis.

While that example is quite extreme, the point I initially made was that WvW players have a different mindset than non-WvW players. Players with thousands of hours in WvW know what works and what doesn’t. Non-WvW players might just log in to get dailies done, and might not care about the outcome of battles or server victories. But McKenna did state that the metrics Anet has shows a healthy and active WvW presence with those that responded.

Anet is in the position that they need to make the game enjoyable to everyone, thus the inclusion of Rank 10 and above in their survey. I do understand that you can’t just focus on the hardcore WvWers. On the flip side, those hardcores are the ones that keep WvW fun and enjoyable. When there was an exodus of players taking a break, the mode wasn’t as fun (well, in T1 and T2 anyways).

WvW relies on players on all sides to be actively playing in order for that game mode to be fun. Zergs rolling over a handful of players isn’t fun, nor is an empty server PvDing Towers and Keeps. This is why I personally think surveys with WvW should be targeted towards more active players. Instead of Rank 1000, maybe Rank 500 or so as the threshold? or 400? Rank 10 or playing just 1 hour per week is most likely someone getting their dailies.

Except they don’t. There are massively divergent views among wvw vets about what works and what doesn’t. Moreover time in wvw doesn’t translate into expertise.

And, btw, the direct application of what you’re calling for and your Brexit analogy is restricting the vote to senior citizens….

We can talk all we want. We will find out if this poll results were healty and reflecting WwW community’s view when the Desert Borderlands are back. I only wish if the population starts to diminish again, Anet takes fast action instead of waiting for months.
I for one will not set foot to Desert Bl , if it comes back exactly the same way. If they make some real improvements before, then yes I will give it a quick try.

Imho, limiting the polls to just those with 1000+ ranking would the absolute worst thing that Anet could do. A ranking of 1000+ only means one thing…..that a player has spent a lot of time in wvw. It doesn’t mean they know wvw or don’t know wvw….it just means they have spent a lot of time there.

Also, by setting the ranking so high, you’re also excluding any newer players that might be coming from other mmorpgs that they had massive wvw/rvr experience in. Just because they haven’t done much wvw in this game, doesn’t mean they don’t know good/bad wvw from other games they might have played. You’re also excluding newer players who might have bought GW2 just for the wvw, and have yet to reach any sort of minimum ranking due to the fact that they just got on board.

Plus, you’re also excluding those that might spend most of their time in wvw sieging or scouting. Important roles, to be sure, but not good for your ranking.

It just makes the whole polling thing way too “elitist” and exclusionary, imo.

Frankly, I think anyone that paid for the game deserves to vote in ANY poll. They put their money down like anyone else, so they should have a say.

I also seriously doubt that non-wvw’ers skewed this last poll in much of any way. Certainly not to the extent where keeping the dbls beat getting rid of the dbls by almost a 2-1 margin.

maybe.5086:

We can talk all we want. We will find out if this poll results were healty and reflecting WwW community’s view when the Desert Borderlands are back. I only wish if the population starts to diminish again, Anet takes fast action instead of waiting for months.
I for one will not set foot to Desert Bl , if it comes back exactly the same way. If they make some real improvements before, then yes I will give it a quick try.

How would a mixed bls setup of 2 ABLS and 1 DBL affect the population? If the poll turns out that way, it would give all parties the bls that they want. And I am also hoping that they have already tweaked dbls some more, and will continue to do so once it comes back.

If the wvw population continues to dwindle, it is because of much more serious issues than just 1 bl that some might not like.

And, again, Anet can play with the larger data set to see if rank, activity, etc. makes any difference. You can’t do the opposite though, which is why casting a wider net when surveying is better.

Choppy.4183:

Except they don’t. There are massively divergent views among wvw vets about what works and what doesn’t. Moreover time in wvw doesn’t translate into expertise.

And, btw, the direct application of what you’re calling for and your Brexit analogy is restricting the vote to senior citizens….

Point 1) You’d get a more accurate feedback if it’s from the WvW vets. Even if the survey percentages show DBL remaining, at least there’d be less question to it.

Point 2) It’s not like restricting votes to seniors, but rather restricting votes to people who understand the outcome and consequences. Sorta like what happened in the US when Trump won the GOP primary.

It is absolutely mind boggling to me how people can seriously compare a video game poll to political elections. It is like comparing apples to Buicks.

And I still completely disagree with your rationale, Smooth. Having a certain rank doesn’t mean a thing about ‘expertise’. All it is is a time measurement.

Polls are blunt instruments when it comes to gathering feedback, but ANet are using them to get a high level view of what the whole community wants from the game mode or to approve changes such as reward tracks. Detailed feedback is being provided through other channels (e.g. forums) that are dominated by veteran WvW players.

Why exclude those who have an interest in the game mode from providing feedback on it? You’re assuming the amount of votes the restrictions would remove from the results of a poll would make a significant difference to the results.

Teon.5168:

It is absolutely mind boggling to me how people can seriously compare a video game poll to political elections. It is like comparing apples to Buicks.

And I still completely disagree with your rationale, Smooth. Having a certain rank doesn’t mean a thing about ‘expertise’. All it is is a time measurement.

Again, the point I was making was that there are some who either don’t understand or don’t care about the vote results. Everyone’s gotta live with it, even if the results end up being bad. To further clarify, I’m not insinuating that DBL is bad. I’m speaking generally on any survey or vote in which people who don’t understand what they’re voting for, vote anyways.

Part time players who visit WvW only to do dailies don’t understand the struggles War Councils put up with to sustain the game mode. Some players make WvW their primary game mode, and thus would/should have more of a say to what Devs should focus on. That’s my personal opinion, of course.

I also pointed out that I do understand Anet’s side of it all. They made this game for anyone and everyone, so having the survey open to a large amount of players would be the correct thing. At this point I’m talking out both sides of my mouth, I know, but I’m trying to acknowledge different sides of the argument.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Teon.5168:

It is absolutely mind boggling to me how people can seriously compare a video game poll to political elections. It is like comparing apples to Buicks.

And I still completely disagree with your rationale, Smooth. Having a certain rank doesn’t mean a thing about ‘expertise’. All it is is a time measurement.

Again, the point I was making was that there are some who either don’t understand or don’t care about the vote results. Everyone’s gotta live with it, even if the results end up being bad. To further clarify, I’m not insinuating that DBL is bad. I’m speaking generally on any survey or vote in which people who don’t understand what they’re voting for, vote anyways.

Part time players who visit WvW only to do dailies don’t understand the struggles War Councils put up with to sustain the game mode. Some players make WvW their primary game mode, and thus would/should have more of a say to what Devs should focus on. That’s my personal opinion, of course.

I also pointed out that I do understand Anet’s side of it all. They made this game for anyone and everyone, so having the survey open to a large amount of players would be the correct thing. At this point I’m talking out both sides of my mouth, I know, but I’m trying to acknowledge different sides of the argument.

Ok, fair enough. I misinterpreted what I thought your original point was. Agreed that there are lots of different sides to these discussions.

My opinion is that Anet should keep these surveys wide open. You buy the game, you get a say.

I would also like to make a comment on your “War Councils” remarks. If this game had been created with WvW in mind as some sort of ‘end game’ or as some sort of hardcore mode, then I might agree with your ‘war councils’ remarks. But this game was created with WvW as some sort of casual afterthought. Just the fact that the devs rarely communicated with the wvw playerbase for the first 3 years proves that. Players knowing about or not knowing about the ‘struggles of war councils’ doesn’t mean a thing in this game. Maybe if it was DaoC, or the upcoming Camelot Unchained….where wvw WAS/IS meant from the get go as being the ‘end game’ point…..maybe I might agree on that point. But wvw in GW2 has never been meant to be ultra serious or hardcore….the points don’t effect pve, in fact the points don’t even mean anything except for some vague wvw bragging rights.

Not sure why you would even bring up some sort of point like that for the type of casual, and whimsical form of wvw that exists in GW2.

War councils have nothing to do with why or why not wvw exists in this game. The general wvw playerbase(new and old alike) is why this game mode continues.

Jmo, of course.

Choppy.4183:

gloflop.3510:

Surveys are only as good as the person who creates it. They provide an outcome dependend on the question asked and the answers possible. The outcome has to be analysed and interpreted. In our specific case, we can ask many questions but it only provides us with a hint on what the opinions among the players participating is (not among all players). However, it does not tell us anything about why the players voted for what they voted for.

From a scientific perspective, the design of the surveys is simply horrible. I would not allow anyone using the data for a further analysis.

By all means, please provide your scientific critique of their survey methodology.

Showing how to conduct a survey correctly would take me at least one lecture. I recommend a good statistics book instead.

Just to show one example here:
Has anyone ever asked themselves why there is something called cronbach’s alpha? The reason is that survey participants understand the questions different. Despite the fact that the author of the survey tries to use neutral formulations, this may not be perceived neutral by the participant. Hence, normal surveys use multiple questions for the same topic.

Teon.5168:

How would a mixed bls setup of 2 ABLS and 1 DBL affect the population?

Because to have a good competitive environment, all sides need to have an equal playing field, literally. Football fields are equal on both sides of the 50 yard line are they not? I can’t think of a single sport that has unequal courts, fields, or lanes. As such, people that play WvW as a competitive game mode will leave.

It’s funny to sad how much WvW is becoming EotM. In EotM there’s two types of play, K-Training or Bag Farming. Now in WvW it’s basically coming down to people wanting to full blown either K-Training or Bag Farming too. Long live EotM 2.0

DeWolfe.2174:

Teon.5168:

How would a mixed bls setup of 2 ABLS and 1 DBL affect the population?

Because to have a good competitive environment, all sides need to have an equal playing field, literally. Football fields are equal on both sides of the 50 yard line are they not? I can’t think of a single sport that has unequal courts, fields, or lanes. As such, people that play WvW as a competitive game mode will leave.

It’s funny to sad how much WvW is becoming EotM. In EotM there’s two types of play, K-Training or Bag Farming. Now in WvW it’s basically coming down to people wanting to full blown either K-Training or Bag Farming too. Long live EotM 2.0

hasn’t been competitive for some time with 3 bls the same anyway…

DeWolfe.2174:

Teon.5168:

How would a mixed bls setup of 2 ABLS and 1 DBL affect the population?

Because to have a good competitive environment, all sides need to have an equal playing field, literally. Football fields are equal on both sides of the 50 yard line are they not? I can’t think of a single sport that has unequal courts, fields, or lanes. As such, people that play WvW as a competitive game mode will leave.

It’s funny to sad how much WvW is becoming EotM. In EotM there’s two types of play, K-Training or Bag Farming. Now in WvW it’s basically coming down to people wanting to full blown either K-Training or Bag Farming too. Long live EotM 2.0

Football fields aren’t equal say in the middle of winter when one is covered by snow and others aren’t. The mode is very unequal in other ways. If the DBL and a new future home BL conformed to norms established by the ABL, eg northern towers able to treb garri then having different BLs would be fine IMO.

gloflop.3510:

Showing how to conduct a survey correctly would take me at least one lecture. I recommend a good statistics book instead.

Just to show one example here:
Has anyone ever asked themselves why there is something called cronbach’s alpha? The reason is that survey participants understand the questions different. Despite the fact that the author of the survey tries to use neutral formulations, this may not be perceived neutral by the participant. Hence, normal surveys use multiple questions for the same topic.

Some surveys, yes. Other approaches combine surveys with more involved interviews with a smaller subset of the sampling universe to better interpret survey responses. Triangulation via non-survey data is better still.

But which approach to use depends on what you’re trying to achieve. On the question of whether to keep dbl in rotation, why should Anet care so much about why people want it when the cost of probing that brings little gain but would inevitably lead to considerably fewer responses to the central question?

Anet is basically holding referenda here, not conducting behavioral research. It’s for that reason that their methodology is perfectly acceptable, and even superior to what you seem to want them to do.

DeWolfe.2174:

Teon.5168:

How would a mixed bls setup of 2 ABLS and 1 DBL affect the population?

Because to have a good competitive environment, all sides need to have an equal playing field, literally. Football fields are equal on both sides of the 50 yard line are they not? I can’t think of a single sport that has unequal courts, fields, or lanes. As such, people that play WvW as a competitive game mode will leave.

It’s funny to sad how much WvW is becoming EotM. In EotM there’s two types of play, K-Training or Bag Farming. Now in WvW it’s basically coming down to people wanting to full blown either K-Training or Bag Farming too. Long live EotM 2.0

Sorry, but I just don’t see that. It might all irk some of the hardcores, but I don’t really see that as a problem.

And when you speak of equal playing fields…..last time I checked, no matter what happens for the bls…..all wvw players will have to deal with it……therefore, the “same playing field” for all.

Choppy.4183:

Some surveys, yes. Other approaches combine surveys with more involved interviews with a smaller subset of the sampling universe to better interpret survey responses. Triangulation via non-survey data is better still.

But which approach to use depends on what you’re trying to achieve. On the question of whether to keep dbl in rotation, why should Anet care so much about why people want it when the cost of probing that brings little gain but would inevitably lead to considerably fewer responses to the central question?

Anet is basically holding referenda here, not conducting behavioral research. It’s for that reason that their methodology is perfectly acceptable, and even superior to what you seem to want them to do.

Choppy, you have such a knack for just posting what needs to be said. And in such a well explained and literate manner.

Great post, imo.

Teon.5168:

Choppy, you have such a knack for just posting what needs to be said. And in such a well explained and literate manner.

Great post, imo.

Wow thanks, Teon! Much appreciated. I’ve been enjoying your posts too.

Choppy.4183:

gloflop.3510:

Showing how to conduct a survey correctly would take me at least one lecture. I recommend a good statistics book instead.

Just to show one example here:
Has anyone ever asked themselves why there is something called cronbach’s alpha? The reason is that survey participants understand the questions different. Despite the fact that the author of the survey tries to use neutral formulations, this may not be perceived neutral by the participant. Hence, normal surveys use multiple questions for the same topic.

Some surveys, yes. Other approaches combine surveys with more involved interviews with a smaller subset of the sampling universe to better interpret survey responses. Triangulation via non-survey data is better still.

But which approach to use depends on what you’re trying to achieve. On the question of whether to keep dbl in rotation, why should Anet care so much about why people want it when the cost of probing that brings little gain but would inevitably lead to considerably fewer responses to the central question?

Anet is basically holding referenda here, not conducting behavioral research. It’s for that reason that their methodology is perfectly acceptable, and even superior to what you seem to want them to do.

Triangulation would be wrong, I agree. However, I did not voice for a triangulation. My example was about making clearer questions. If I think about Switzerland and the referenda there, making clear questions is partly a huge problem. The interpretation varies too much…
Furthermore, I disagree with your argument that anet should not care about the reason for the choice of the players. It helps them understanding what the players actually want and this is the aim of the surveys.

gloflop.3510:

Furthermore, I disagree with your argument that anet should not care about the reason for the choice of the players. It helps them understanding what the players actually want and this is the aim of the surveys.

Sure. But is the survey necessarily the best way to do that? ANet uses a multilateral approach when it comes to obtaining feedback; they use the surveys, they use the forums, they use Reddit and other external sites. They also track in-game activity and connect that with poll respondents.

gloflop.3510:

Triangulation would be wrong, I agree. However, I did not voice for a triangulation. My example was about making clearer questions. If I think about Switzerland and the referenda there, making clear questions is partly a huge problem. The interpretation varies too much…
Furthermore, I disagree with your argument that anet should not care about the reason for the choice of the players. It helps them understanding what the players actually want and this is the aim of the surveys.

What was unclear about the last question?

And it’s not that I don’t think Anet shouldn’t care why people voted the way they did, it’s that the marginal benefit of probing that would be greatly outweighed by the cost. It also has the starting assumption that people have a clear and accurate reason for their preference.

Sarrs.4831:

Sure. But is the survey necessarily the best way to do that? ANet uses a multilateral approach when it comes to obtaining feedback; they use the surveys, they use the forums, they use Reddit and other external sites. They also track in-game activity and connect that with poll respondents.

The topic is the validity of the survey and not of all other approaches.

Choppy.4183:

What was unclear about the last question?

I cannot remember the last question. However, I remember the question about the next tasks of the WvW-team. The discussion in the forum about the question was very extensive.

And it’s not that I don’t think Anet shouldn’t care why people voted the way they did, it’s that the marginal benefit of probing that would be greatly outweighed by the cost. It also has the starting assumption that people have a clear and accurate reason for their preference.

Here we enter the economical arena and the area of thinking. I simply have a different opinion and I would leave it there.

gloflop.3510:

The topic is the validity of the survey and not of all other approaches.

If that is the topic and the only topic, then we can end the thread very quickly and easily:

There is no reason to believe that there was any aberrant behavior that would invalidate the poll. The poll was clearly worded, and the outcomes and requirements of the poll were clear. There is no reason to believe that participants in the poll did not participate in good faith.

DeWolfe.2174:

Because to have a good competitive environment, all sides need to have an equal playing field, literally. Football fields are equal on both sides of the 50 yard line are they not? I can’t think of a single sport that has unequal courts, fields, or lanes. As such, people that play WvW as a competitive game mode will leave.

It’s funny to sad how much WvW is becoming EotM. In EotM there’s two types of play, K-Training or Bag Farming. Now in WvW it’s basically coming down to people wanting to full blown either K-Training or Bag Farming too. Long live EotM 2.0

WvW has never been a balance competitive environment. Football teams that play on those football fields also have equal numbers, that only happens in wvw when the map is filled on all three sides, which only happens on reset or ebg regularly. It doesn’t matter the size of the map, or how many same copies of the map you have, the side with more active players and coverage wins, always.

EBG is not “equal”, there are equal amount of structures, but their layouts are not equal. Some would say it’s an advantage to treb smc from the red keep, others would say it isn’t since it can be trebbed from smc while the two other keeps cannot be. Mendons is an inner tower that’s difficult to defend unless you’re in the tower, meanwhile all other inner towers are in range to be defended from the keep. The counter to that of course is Ogres watch is an outer tower that can be defended from the keep, but so can wildcreek and klovan, while blue side suffers on that.

I get it, all 3 bls should be the exact same, everyone should have the same access to home defense, but again the alternative is abl 3 months, dbl 3 months, do you want that? They’ve already stepped down the road for multiple borderlands, they’ll probably make a 3rd one at some point, one bl will be an american football field, the other will be a canadian football field, and the last one will be a rugby field.

You will have different field sizes, but the 50yard line is the equal amount of structures in every map, that beyond anything else is what needs to be the same, since every bl needs to produce the same amount of points.

Sarrs.4831:

There is no reason to believe that there was any aberrant behavior that would invalidate the poll. The poll was clearly worded, and the outcomes and requirements of the poll were clear. There is no reason to believe that participants in the poll did not participate in good faith.

You can answer a question in best faith. If you do not interprete the question the way it was intended, you will get a biased result. Furthermore, a couple of other biases are not accounted for (which I will not explain in detail).

DeWolfe.2174:

Because to have a good competitive environment, all sides need to have an equal playing field, literally. Football fields are equal on both sides of the 50 yard line are they not? I can’t think of a single sport that has unequal courts, fields, or lanes. As such, people that play WvW as a competitive game mode will leave.

Baseball has unequal field dimensions, as well as other park specific factors.
http://espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/story/_/page/mlbdk2k16_parkfactors/which-parks-most-least-favorable-fantasy-baseball-hitters-pitchers-mlb

Football has different playing surfaces and is played under varying weather conditions, rain and snow as well as extreme heat and cold and in domes. Some stadiums have configurations that create difficult wind conditions. Teams choose personnel in part based upon these factors and teams that don’t practice or play often in the conditions they have play in at an away game are at a disadvantage.

Thelgar.7214:

DeWolfe.2174:

Because to have a good competitive environment, all sides need to have an equal playing field, literally. Football fields are equal on both sides of the 50 yard line are they not? I can’t think of a single sport that has unequal courts, fields, or lanes. As such, people that play WvW as a competitive game mode will leave.

Baseball has unequal field dimensions, as well as other park specific factors.
http://espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/story/_/page/mlbdk2k16_parkfactors/which-parks-most-least-favorable-fantasy-baseball-hitters-pitchers-mlb

Football has different playing surfaces and is played under varying weather conditions, rain and snow as well as extreme heat and cold and in domes. Some stadiums have configurations that create difficult wind conditions. Teams choose personnel in part based upon these factors and teams that don’t practice or play often in the conditions they have play in at an away game are at a disadvantage.

Excellent point.

Love the in-game mail for the forum poll. System worked like a charm.

Not sure if Anet is seeing this … but …

Is there anyway to get the poll link to the survey – single sign on? So you don’t have to login into the survey … or is that some security issue?

Hexinx.1872:

Love the in-game mail for the forum poll. System worked like a charm.

Not sure if Anet is seeing this … but …

Is there anyway to get the poll link to the survey – single sign on? So you don’t have to login into the survey … or is that some security issue?

Have to log in to vote even if you’re logged into the forums too, I don’t think they’re connected which is why you have to log in there every time.

morrolan.9608:

DeWolfe.2174:

Teon.5168:

How would a mixed bls setup of 2 ABLS and 1 DBL affect the population?

Because to have a good competitive environment, all sides need to have an equal playing field, literally. Football fields are equal on both sides of the 50 yard line are they not? I can’t think of a single sport that has unequal courts, fields, or lanes. As such, people that play WvW as a competitive game mode will leave.

It’s funny to sad how much WvW is becoming EotM. In EotM there’s two types of play, K-Training or Bag Farming. Now in WvW it’s basically coming down to people wanting to full blown either K-Training or Bag Farming too. Long live EotM 2.0

Football fields aren’t equal say in the middle of winter when one is covered by snow and others aren’t. The mode is very unequal in other ways. If the DBL and a new future home BL conformed to norms established by the ABL, eg northern towers able to treb garri then having different BLs would be fine IMO.

That is why more and more stadiums are going indoors to solve that problem and building domes…

Think of it like a basketball court.

lil devils x.6071:

morrolan.9608:

DeWolfe.2174:

Teon.5168:

How would a mixed bls setup of 2 ABLS and 1 DBL affect the population?

Because to have a good competitive environment, all sides need to have an equal playing field, literally. Football fields are equal on both sides of the 50 yard line are they not? I can’t think of a single sport that has unequal courts, fields, or lanes. As such, people that play WvW as a competitive game mode will leave.

It’s funny to sad how much WvW is becoming EotM. In EotM there’s two types of play, K-Training or Bag Farming. Now in WvW it’s basically coming down to people wanting to full blown either K-Training or Bag Farming too. Long live EotM 2.0

Football fields aren’t equal say in the middle of winter when one is covered by snow and others aren’t. The mode is very unequal in other ways. If the DBL and a new future home BL conformed to norms established by the ABL, eg northern towers able to treb garri then having different BLs would be fine IMO.

That is why more and more stadiums are going indoors to solve that problem and building domes…

Think of it like a basketball court.

Prove this “more and more stadiums are going indoors to solve that problem and building domes.” There have been or will be a total of three new domed stadiums in pro football, and all three are replacing existing or recently demolished domes in Atlanta, Minnesota and Los Angeles (the stadium in LA replacing the Rams’ previous domes stadium in St. Louis.). And open air baseball parks have been preferred in most recent stadiums that hadn’t had domes in the past and even these are mostly being replaced with retractable roof stadiums to avoid rain delays and improve attendance – I don’t know of a single instance where the purpose was to standardize the field of play, especially since none of the changes included standardizing the dimensions of the field. And in some cases, the domes themselves make fielding fly balls more difficult or easier because of differences in coloring and lighting.

Thelgar.7214:

lil devils x.6071:

morrolan.9608:

DeWolfe.2174:

Teon.5168:

How would a mixed bls setup of 2 ABLS and 1 DBL affect the population?

Because to have a good competitive environment, all sides need to have an equal playing field, literally. Football fields are equal on both sides of the 50 yard line are they not? I can’t think of a single sport that has unequal courts, fields, or lanes. As such, people that play WvW as a competitive game mode will leave.

It’s funny to sad how much WvW is becoming EotM. In EotM there’s two types of play, K-Training or Bag Farming. Now in WvW it’s basically coming down to people wanting to full blown either K-Training or Bag Farming too. Long live EotM 2.0

Football fields aren’t equal say in the middle of winter when one is covered by snow and others aren’t. The mode is very unequal in other ways. If the DBL and a new future home BL conformed to norms established by the ABL, eg northern towers able to treb garri then having different BLs would be fine IMO.

That is why more and more stadiums are going indoors to solve that problem and building domes…

Think of it like a basketball court.

Prove this “more and more stadiums are going indoors to solve that problem and building domes.” There have been or will be a total of three new domed stadiums in pro football, and all three are replacing existing or recently demolished domes in Atlanta, Minnesota and Los Angeles (the stadium in LA replacing the Rams’ previous domes stadium in St. Louis.). And open air baseball parks have been preferred in most recent stadiums that hadn’t had domes in the past and even these are mostly being replaced with retractable roof stadiums to avoid rain delays and improve attendance – I don’t know of a single instance where the purpose was to standardize the field of play, especially since none of the changes included standardizing the dimensions of the field. And in some cases, the domes themselves make fielding fly balls more difficult or easier because of differences in coloring and lighting.

I am in Dallas, everything gets domed here. DOMES EVERYWHERE!

It is the largest domed stadium in the world and has the world’s largest column-free interior

http://twistedsifter.com/2009/09/new-dallas-cowboys-stadium/
How can you leave out the largest domed stadium?
Then of course there is the Astrodome and Alamodome in Texas and then all of these elsewhere:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_covered_stadiums_by_capacity

lil devils x.6071:

Thelgar.7214:

lil devils x.6071:

morrolan.9608:

DeWolfe.2174:

Teon.5168:

How would a mixed bls setup of 2 ABLS and 1 DBL affect the population?

Because to have a good competitive environment, all sides need to have an equal playing field, literally. Football fields are equal on both sides of the 50 yard line are they not? I can’t think of a single sport that has unequal courts, fields, or lanes. As such, people that play WvW as a competitive game mode will leave.

It’s funny to sad how much WvW is becoming EotM. In EotM there’s two types of play, K-Training or Bag Farming. Now in WvW it’s basically coming down to people wanting to full blown either K-Training or Bag Farming too. Long live EotM 2.0

Football fields aren’t equal say in the middle of winter when one is covered by snow and others aren’t. The mode is very unequal in other ways. If the DBL and a new future home BL conformed to norms established by the ABL, eg northern towers able to treb garri then having different BLs would be fine IMO.

That is why more and more stadiums are going indoors to solve that problem and building domes…

Think of it like a basketball court.

Prove this “more and more stadiums are going indoors to solve that problem and building domes.” There have been or will be a total of three new domed stadiums in pro football, and all three are replacing existing or recently demolished domes in Atlanta, Minnesota and Los Angeles (the stadium in LA replacing the Rams’ previous domes stadium in St. Louis.). And open air baseball parks have been preferred in most recent stadiums that hadn’t had domes in the past and even these are mostly being replaced with retractable roof stadiums to avoid rain delays and improve attendance – I don’t know of a single instance where the purpose was to standardize the field of play, especially since none of the changes included standardizing the dimensions of the field. And in some cases, the domes themselves make fielding fly balls more difficult or easier because of differences in coloring and lighting.

I am in Dallas, everything gets domed here. DOMES EVERYWHERE!

It is the largest domed stadium in the world and has the world’s largest column-free interior

http://twistedsifter.com/2009/09/new-dallas-cowboys-stadium/
How can you leave out the largest domed stadium?
Then of course there is the Astrodome and Alamodome in Texas and then all of these elsewhere:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_covered_stadiums_by_capacity

The Cowboy’s stadium is a retractable roof, not a dome. That list is miniscule in comparison to the total number of stadiums and doesn’t show any trend toward an increased number of domed stadiums overall or that the choice. Most especially, it doesn’t in any way support that the domes are intended to equalize play. Atlanta, field example wanted an open stadium but had to agree to the roof because they couldn’t reach a two stadium agreement (using the Georgia Dome for other events) with Atlanta.

The retractable roof stadiums actually create their own set of inequal circumstances, as desire for crowd noise or a coach or quarterbacks desire for a more controlled environment can factor into the decision on whether to open or close the roof.

Teon.5168:

Thelgar.7214:

DeWolfe.2174:

Because to have a good competitive environment, all sides need to have an equal playing field, literally. Football fields are equal on both sides of the 50 yard line are they not? I can’t think of a single sport that has unequal courts, fields, or lanes. As such, people that play WvW as a competitive game mode will leave.

Baseball has unequal field dimensions, as well as other park specific factors.
http://espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/story/_/page/mlbdk2k16_parkfactors/which-parks-most-least-favorable-fantasy-baseball-hitters-pitchers-mlb

Football has different playing surfaces and is played under varying weather conditions, rain and snow as well as extreme heat and cold and in domes. Some stadiums have configurations that create difficult wind conditions. Teams choose personnel in part based upon these factors and teams that don’t practice or play often in the conditions they have play in at an away game are at a disadvantage.

Excellent point.

This is a False equivalence. In the examples you’ve given, the competition is still taking place on the same field. Thus, the competition between all parties is equal based on terrain. There aren’t two dissimilar fields, one with a terrain advantage, that a singular competition takes place on.

DeWolfe.2174:

Teon.5168:

Thelgar.7214:

DeWolfe.2174:

Because to have a good competitive environment, all sides need to have an equal playing field, literally. Football fields are equal on both sides of the 50 yard line are they not? I can’t think of a single sport that has unequal courts, fields, or lanes. As such, people that play WvW as a competitive game mode will leave.

Baseball has unequal field dimensions, as well as other park specific factors.
http://espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/story/_/page/mlbdk2k16_parkfactors/which-parks-most-least-favorable-fantasy-baseball-hitters-pitchers-mlb

Football has different playing surfaces and is played under varying weather conditions, rain and snow as well as extreme heat and cold and in domes. Some stadiums have configurations that create difficult wind conditions. Teams choose personnel in part based upon these factors and teams that don’t practice or play often in the conditions they have play in at an away game are at a disadvantage.

Excellent point.

This is a False equivalence. In the examples you’ve given, the competition is still taking place on the same field. Thus, the competition between all parties is equal based on terrain. There aren’t two dissimilar fields, one with a terrain advantage, that a singular competition takes place on.

NFL and MLB playoffs – which are as much a singular competition as three factions fighting in four different maps over the course of a week. Certain teams are going to be playing with a home field advantage which includes weather acclimatization, lack of travel fatigue, a team that is built to take advantage of the layout and conditions of their home field (or vice versa), etc. Another team is playing in those conditions, but other playoff teams are playing their games in completely different circumstances. But all of them are competing to move forward to the next level.

This is true of both sports in regard to their regular season as well, where teams aren’t all going to play on the same fields an equal number of times, if at all, in a season