Guild Wars 2

PPT Scaling: The amount of PPT earned by an objective is determined by the current upgrade status.

Currently, objectives are worth a flat value at the end of each tick. A keep that was captured right before the tick rolls over is worth just as much as a keep which has been upgraded and defended for days. Why should a keep with no upgrades hold the same value as one that is fully upgraded?

As an example, instead of every tower being worth 10 points the base value of towers can be 5. Each upgrade completed on the tower is worth 2 points. This means a fully upgraded tower would be worth 29 points of PPT under the new system. Another idea instead of having each upgrade be worth a flat amount of points, each category is worth points once it’s completed.

This lowers the starting value of an objective but considerably raises it above what is used currently if it’s upgraded.

Another idea to further add dynamic to PPT scaling is for an objective to only count as PPT if it has been held for at least one complete tick. Capturing an objective will remove it from the enemy’s PPT, but does not generate PPT for your server until the following tick.

I feel like these two systems would help to encourage defending and upgrading objectives and put more of an emphasis on needing to capture enemy structures which have been upgraded. Hours spent trying to break a garrison would actually mean something towards the score even if you don’t gain any PPT from it since it’s a PPT loss to the enemy.

I should have read this before posting my own thread, the ideas are similar. I like the idea of upgrades doing more than take away your money and supply – they’d have extra value in the PPT. My idea (linked below) is to also scale the PPT, but based on how many times an objective has been defended.

WvW idea

How does this system intend to deal with larger servers ? If server size A>B>C and server A takes and hold its entire borderland, upgrades it, and the other servers are unable to touch even their south towers. But things on B and C’s borderland will keep flipping by each others and server A’s roamers and zergs. This will result in server A sitting on a crazy amount of PPT.

Just using your tower point example here, with 10 vs 29 ppt, would that mean that Server A would receive close to 290 PPT for holding that one map, while the other 2 maps would be worth around 100 PPT each because being constantly flipped ?

Uuuuuuuugh give it up.

Ever since release there’s been suggestion upon suggestion on this exact thing. Even after all the collaborative development posts by the devs, nothing has been “fixed” with the core flaw of the WvW, coverage and PPT. You can forget about complicated things like this (yes its complicated to fairly scale PPT in float values even if it may seem like childs play at a glance).

Simpler ideas if often better. For example:
No more PPT.
Keeps give a fixed amount of points when taken over.
Keeps also give a fixed amount of points when upgraded a tier.
Keeps apply AoE defense effect giving 2x points for kills when tagged.
Keeps and camps keep track of local outmanned buffs in their surroundings and apply 2x more points for kills (doesnt matter if its attacker or defender, anyone that is outmanned gets it).

End result == Points is focused around taking, upgrading your keeps and actual PvP in and around them. Not PPT kitten all night in an empty border.

Dawdler.8521:

Uuuuuuuugh give it up.

Ever since release there’s been suggestion upon suggestion on this exact thing. Even after all the collaborative development posts by the devs, nothing has been “fixed” with the core flaw of the WvW, coverage and PPT. You can forget about complicated things like this (yes its complicated to fairly scale PPT in float values even if it may seem like childs play at a glance).

Indeed. No one even looks a page back. Literally every single day someone makes a new thread on this topic. It is hard to determine if they are simply to lazy to look toward the bottom of the front page and post on the existing thread, or believe their opinion holds more value then others, and deserves its own thread.

Dawdler.8521:

Simpler ideas if often better. For example:
No more PPT.
Keeps give a fixed amount of points when taken over.
Keeps also give a fixed amount of points when upgraded a tier.
Keeps apply AoE defense effect giving 2x points for kills when tagged.
Keeps and camps keep track of local outmanned buffs in their surroundings and apply 2x more points for kills (doesnt matter if its attacker or defender, anyone that is outmanned gets it).

End result == Points is focused around taking, upgrading your keeps and actual PvP in and around them. Not PPT kitten all night in an empty border.

This idea is probably wouldn’t work as I see it, unless you have left out some details.. All it does is encourage delayed karma training. Hold keep, upgrade keep. Forget about keep. Once you have the points from taking it and upgrading it, there is little point in wasting effort to hold it. Unless the points per capture and upgrade are very low. Which then defeats the point of keeps at all.

coglin.1867:

This idea is probably wouldn’t work as I see it, unless you have left out some details.. All it does is encourage delayed karma training. Hold keep, upgrade keep. Forget about keep. Once you have the points from taking it and upgrading it, there is little point in wasting effort to hold it. Unless the points per capture and upgrade are very low. Which then defeats the point of keeps at all.

As if that is any different from now? Karma training has nothing to with PPT. In fact, it skips PPT entirerely, that only delay the train. Ideally entire armies will just bypass each other. Karma trainers would be most happy if all the keeps had open doors and no NPCs.

The point would be shifting a buttload of points to active PvP instead of passive PPT. I did not specify the points per upgrade or capture, no. That is a balance issue which can only be tested by doing it (which will never happen, so this is purely hypothetical anyway). Of course it wouldnt be like 5000 points for a capture if a kill is worth 1 point. It would be much, much lower. Also, you missed the part where I specified PvP scoring that encourage defense (even when outmanned). The points from upgrading a keep would just be icing on the cake.

Karma training would be business as usual, but unlike the current PPT system with infinite points from an uncontested keep, it would give finite points per keep (capture+upgrades) and then only points for capping it, defending it or bonus points for fighting outmanned around it. Holding a keep is the basis for players to actively leech points from it. No keeps, no points! No players, no points! Well aside from said upgrade icing on the cake.

I disagree. I see a great many who want to win the week. When they want karma, they go to EOTM, because karma training is much less efficient in actual WvW in comparison.

Personally, I see no reason to try to shift all of the points to PvP. We have PvP for that as well as the up coming strong hold for. I do not see any logic in forcing that into WvW. If I want it all to be about fights, I will take my guild to obsidian sanctum.

Dawdler: I saw another user post something similar in the DCI threads (munkiman.3068), and I think his version looked pretty good. Worth a look if you’re interested.