People left WvW even without tournament

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Posted by: cpchow.7416

cpchow.7416

People are leaving WvW is because anet ignore this game mode. There is nothing wrong with the WvW tournament. It brings lots of players into WvW during the tournament. The big population decline after WvW tournament is an excuse by anet. It’s too naive to shirk the faults to the players.
A years after the HOT expansion and the WvW overhaul is just a joke. We find out that anet will only focus on PVE, FOTM, raid, living story, pvp and the next expansion.
The PPK/KDR in december shown that lots of the players left WvW and will never come back. You shut down the WvW tournament as the impact to the WvW population. On the other hand, what had you done when thousand of players left WvW due to lack of WvW update and the same boring content over 4 years.
WvW need a tournament to bring the old players back. There is no reason playing WvW now as winning is meaningless.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

It’s not that winning is meaningless; it’s been meaningless since day 1 and people are totally fine with pouring thousands of gold into it, anyways.

The problem is that the fights are meaningless. HoT balance is so bad and the professions so terribly-designed at this point that the very act of playing WvW feels meaningless because engaging in combat is no longer fun.

That’s what’s driving people away, and why the GvG scene is dead. Bottom line, professions need BIG changes for this format to ever stabilize.

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Posted by: Jerry CCH.9816

Jerry CCH.9816

Re0-WvW

7days reset LoL

winnie@BlackGate

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Posted by: kathy.8291

kathy.8291

havent you noticed that Anet is only focused on PvE and is phasing out WvW althought the name of this game is Guild Wars not PvE Raid Wars lol. Im an avid WvW player and thank god I have a WvW/gvg guild although its getting harder to find other guilds to go against with this server migration and scoring system.

Anet is killing us slowly and its sad because their losing alot of players.

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Posted by: Phantom.8130

Phantom.8130

It’s not that winning is meaningless; it’s been meaningless since day 1 and people are totally fine with pouring thousands of gold into it, anyways.

The problem is that the fights are meaningless. HoT balance is so bad and the professions so terribly-designed at this point that the very act of playing WvW feels meaningless because engaging in combat is no longer fun.

That’s what’s driving people away, and why the GvG scene is dead. Bottom line, professions need BIG changes for this format to ever stabilize.

I remember listening to an interview with Sacryx a few years back and he mentioned something he brought up to Anet during the betas. He said that he thought that people should have to fight their way to the objectives, not go to the objectives and then fight, which is something I agree with completely.

If you break things down into layers, starting on the grand scheme of things you start to notice a very disturbing pattern. Ok, and the top layer, you have the Glicko rankings, which is a flawed system. Go down one layer. What determines the Glicko rankings? The matchup scoring system, another flawed system. Go down one more layer. What determines the matchup scoring? PPT, yet another flawed system. What determines PPT? The strategic value of the areas on the map, which…. the way they areas are arranged is…. yet another flawed system. Go down another layer. What determines who controls the areas on the map? The group combat system, which… was passable before HOT but….. is now another flawed system. Go down another layer. What determines the makeup of a group? Builds and compositions, something that was decent before HOT, but…. is now yet another flawed system.

At every. single. level is a flawed system that doesn’t do the job that it’s needed to do. And the layers that were actually functional (not great, mind you, but functional), they actually broke with HOT. This isn’t something that falls onto the shoulders of the scripters or the coders, or the art design team, or the PR team, or the QA team, or the forum staff, or even the unpaid interns. These are game design decision failures, on every single layer of WvW. And instead of actually fixing the failures, they steered into the skid with HoT and actually broke what didn’t need fixing in the first place. And players leaving is the inevitable result of that. What accelerates that, however, is their pattern of hyping things up, and then severely underwhelming delivery. The “Big WvW update” is a prime example of the latest in a series of these, well, let’s call them for what they are, cheap advertising tricks. The CDIs are another example, as is the mastery system (people asked for progression and acknowledgement for their contributions, people got 1 new mastery every 2 weeks that accomplished neither and introduced several new problems into the fold as well).

Given ALL of that, tournaments certainly aren’t to blame for people leaving. In and of themselves, they’re a good thing. However, there’s just entirely too many critical fundamental flaws with every other aspect of the game. If you bury a Filet Mignon under a pile of cow manure, no one is going to want to eat it, and if it gets force fed to them, they certainly aren’t going to enjoy the taste. But that’s hardly the fault of the steak.

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Posted by: Offair.2563

Offair.2563

Not sure what makes you think that all the people that left due to class imbalance will suddenly flock in with another meaningless tournament.

Big Babou, Ranger for life.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.

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Posted by: Tongku.5326

Tongku.5326

People are leaving WvW is because anet ignore this game mode. There is nothing wrong with the WvW tournament. It brings lots of players into WvW during the tournament. The big population decline after WvW tournament is an excuse by anet. It’s too naive to shirk the faults to the players.
A years after the HOT expansion and the WvW overhaul is just a joke. We find out that anet will only focus on PVE, FOTM, raid, living story, pvp and the next expansion.
The PPK/KDR in december shown that lots of the players left WvW and will never come back. You shut down the WvW tournament as the impact to the WvW population. On the other hand, what had you done when thousand of players left WvW due to lack of WvW update and the same boring content over 4 years.
WvW need a tournament to bring the old players back. There is no reason playing WvW now as winning is meaningless.

This game mode should have never had a tournament in the 1st place due to population / timezone coverage imbalances. And jsut cause you havent seen people leave WVW and the game entirely after a tournament, taht doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and won’t happen again.

I have seen it happen, I actually have the numbers since I was in a huge guild and was doing organization and recruitment. And it truly is a huge number when I multiply it times about half the servers (cause not every server had guilds of our size). If it happened today you’d likely be left with literally nothing but roaming on most, even linked servers.

BTW, the most people ever I have seen leave GW2 and WVW, was not because of balance or tourneys or anything like that. The most people I have seen leave, and those were actually active players, was when YB got propped up by the alliance and all the populated tier 2 servers disappeared. That was so toxic to the entirety of WVW that people literally left GW2 in droves, T2 was left with nothing but single groups of 15-25 players at prime time for months.

So no, tourneys are a negative thing so I wouldn’t want to see them, but even then, mass server hopping and server overstacking is the most negative of all.

All the rest of the stuff like class balance, siege, blah blah blah, all small potatoes in comparison.

Heavy Deedz – COSA – SF

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Posted by: Swamurabi.7890

Swamurabi.7890

from a red post in the thread Whens the next WvW tournament?

Our primary motivation for avoiding running another tournament, is that at the end of every tournament we saw a permanent dip in the number of players playing WvW. Presumably this was due to players burning themselves out during the tournament.

However, we can still run a poll to see if the majority of the community wants another 4 week tournament, even if it might be bad for the long term WvW population numbers. Though even if ‘running another tournament’ won the poll, we’d probably hold off until we get the scoring updates in.

At this point I’d vote for another tournament just so WvW dies even faster than it is now.

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

People are leaving WvW is because anet ignore this game mode. There is nothing wrong with the WvW tournament. It brings lots of players into WvW during the tournament. The big population decline after WvW tournament is an excuse by anet. It’s too naive to shirk the faults to the players.
A years after the HOT expansion and the WvW overhaul is just a joke. We find out that anet will only focus on PVE, FOTM, raid, living story, pvp and the next expansion.
The PPK/KDR in december shown that lots of the players left WvW and will never come back. You shut down the WvW tournament as the impact to the WvW population. On the other hand, what had you done when thousand of players left WvW due to lack of WvW update and the same boring content over 4 years.
WvW need a tournament to bring the old players back. There is no reason playing WvW now as winning is meaningless.

The devs still have a lot of work to do before tournaments are a consideration. Also, we lost players after each tournament, so the format and rewards needs to be changed.

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

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Posted by: Rambitshouse.8712

Rambitshouse.8712

I think it was how the tournament was spec’d. It was too long and commanders/guilds got burnt out.

Maybe having shorter tournaments and rewards, REAL rewards anet. Please no more crap to junk up people’s inventory or useless currency.

I just don’t know how you do a tournament today with so little tiers thought the idea may bring more players from pve/pvp into our mode. Ya know anet…how you’re trying to force wvwers into pvp to make it look like it has core numbers?

Dtox

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Posted by: Swamurabi.7890

Swamurabi.7890

Tournament cycle:

1. Anet announces tournament.
2. Two weeks before tournament, servers buy guilds. Glicko rating of servers gaining and losing players doesn’t adjust quickly enough to reflect new population.
3. Tournament starts and winning servers win, losing servers lose. There are no upsets ( the only exception was season two 2v1 against BG)
4. After the tournament ends the servers de-stabilize again as there are players who transfer off while others stop playing, leaving less players in WvW after the tournament than before the tournament.

Lets have another tournament!

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Posted by: gennyt.3428

gennyt.3428

A bunch of people outright quit, never to return after every single tournament as confirmed by Anet. I know for a fact that some of them were guild drivers, pugmanders and community organizers. The biggest things WvWvW had going for it were the combat and the community and the game arguably got worse with most of the patches. People voted with their feet. No people, no MMO and this one is now 4 years old running on an even older engine, a tournament would likely be the final nail.

Whispers with meat.

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Posted by: Rambitshouse.8712

Rambitshouse.8712

A bunch of people outright quit, never to return after every single tournament as confirmed by Anet. I know for a fact that some of them were guild drivers, pugmanders and community organizers. The biggest things WvWvW had going for it were the combat and the community and the game arguably got worse with most of the patches. People voted with their feet. No people, no MMO and this one is now 4 years old running on an even older engine, a tournament would likely be the final nail.

The game probably couldn’t handle it tbh with this color condi boon laser show anets got going on. Look at it now, you even get close to a fight and the lag intensifies 5000 billion fold.

Dtox

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Posted by: Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

I find it quite a stretch to compare post-tournament population decline to general population decline. It’s my belief that the reason for the current population decline is the horrible meta (which is a multiplied effect of what’s in PvP), prolific crowd control abilities and other HoT effects (see PvP forums). All of these are the effect of the developers responsible leaving the company instead of balancing the abilities. Hopefully their replacements … if any ever get hired … will learn what their forebears did wrong and sooner rather than later.

Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.

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Posted by: Nikkinella.8254

Nikkinella.8254

Fights simply arent fun anymore. That’s what drove people away. All this passive condi and cc spam. It might be fun for the trolls using it, but not the least bit fun to fight against it. The stab changes and the pve buffs to condi, which should have stayed in pve only and never been brought over into wvw. That’s what killed the fun for me anyway. The whole thing that made me like wvw in the first place was the active, intense, fast paced combat. That just isnt there anymore. Its all boring bunker condi and cc spam and passive autopilot builds that carry bad players.

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Posted by: CrimeMaker.8612

CrimeMaker.8612

Fights simply arent fun anymore. That’s what drove people away. All this passive condi and cc spam. It might be fun for the trolls using it, but not the least bit fun to fight against it. The stab changes and the pve buffs to condi, which should have stayed in pve only and never been brought over into wvw. That’s what killed the fun for me anyway. The whole thing that made me like wvw in the first place was the active, intense, fast paced combat. That just isnt there anymore. Its all boring bunker condi and cc spam and passive autopilot builds that carry bad players.

This is right on point. Conditions, tanky builds and massive ccs just ruined WvW combat and fights.

Make WvW fun again in these easy steps.
1. Nerf conditions
2. Nerf damage reduction
3. Give old school stab back
4. Bring back old school zerg busting meta

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Posted by: CrimeMaker.8612

CrimeMaker.8612

Also Arena net can have a tournament where everyone wins and scoring doesnt really matter. It would simply be just for fights and fun. Which ever server gets the most ppk wins lol.

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

Not sure what makes you think that all the people that left due to class imbalance will suddenly flock in with another meaningless tournament.

The sad realisation that even in it’s horrible balance state it is still ahead of most viable offerings in terms of active combat.

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Posted by: Nikkinella.8254

Nikkinella.8254

Fights simply arent fun anymore. That’s what drove people away. All this passive condi and cc spam. It might be fun for the trolls using it, but not the least bit fun to fight against it. The stab changes and the pve buffs to condi, which should have stayed in pve only and never been brought over into wvw. That’s what killed the fun for me anyway. The whole thing that made me like wvw in the first place was the active, intense, fast paced combat. That just isnt there anymore. Its all boring bunker condi and cc spam and passive autopilot builds that carry bad players.

This is right on point. Conditions, tanky builds and massive ccs just ruined WvW combat and fights.

Make WvW fun again in these easy steps.
1. Nerf conditions
2. Nerf damage reduction
3. Give old school stab back
4. Bring back old school zerg busting meta

They have the ability to separate balance from all 3 modes. They’ve proven this already with the pvp only updates in the last patch, and the fact retal is different in wvw and pve. The solution is easy, but they’re too stubborn/and or ignorant to take the obvious and easy solution to alot of the complaints of wvw dying. Balance is first and foremost the most important thing. Even more so than population stacking. Population is irrelevant if the fights themselves arent even fun anymore. Wvw need separate balance from pve. This tanky condi spam meta is nauseatingly boring and not fun at all to fight against.

The changes to condi were necessary for pve, because condi was utterly useless there. But they forgot the fact that wvw isn’t pve. We arent fighting against mobs with 10 billion hp that stand still and eat aoes. Condi is way too overpowered in small scale fights. That is mainly what killed the gvg and roaming scene. Now its just boring blobbing and gank squads of condi scrubs. And the fun factor of blobbing down smaller groups wears off quickly. People looking for more skilled and action packed combat just cant find it there anymore outside of organized duels with strict rules of no condi builds.

We absolutely need to separate balance from pve and go back to the old condi system for wvw. The zerglings will only zerg for so long before it becomes a completely dead mode and the people looking for a more enjoyable and skillful combat experience look elsewhere. This is just my opinion though. This is what killed the fun in wvw for me. I used to play for 6+ hours every single day. With the condi changes, i maybe get in 6 hours a week now. It’s just not fun anymore fighting these scrub builds that carry bad players. I guess the players that used to get rolled before and died all the time enjoy it now because they have so much passive crap to carry them while they skill click, keyboard turn, and facetank all your attacks.

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Posted by: RodOfDeath.5247

RodOfDeath.5247

Fights simply arent fun anymore. That’s what drove people away. All this passive condi and cc spam. It might be fun for the trolls using it, but not the least bit fun to fight against it. The stab changes and the pve buffs to condi, which should have stayed in pve only and never been brought over into wvw. That’s what killed the fun for me anyway. The whole thing that made me like wvw in the first place was the active, intense, fast paced combat. That just isnt there anymore. Its all boring bunker condi and cc spam and passive autopilot builds that carry bad players.

I think just the game in general isn’t fun anymore.

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

Tournaments were great for getting PvE players in for a few weeks and stacking servers but ended up destabilizing everything else. We got a surge in population, screwed up the Glicko and then drove consistent WvW players out as the matches were crazy lopsided for months during and after while Glicko adjusted.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

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Posted by: Tiny Doom.4380

Tiny Doom.4380

Split regular matches into two leagues: Weekday (4 day) and Weekend (2 day). Use the remaining day (Friday would be preferable) for an ongoing series of one day tournament matches which reset skirmish by skirmish.

Basically, speed the whole thing up while also splitting into into more parts. Increase excitement and variety while at the same time avoiding burnout.

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Posted by: Caedmon.6798

Caedmon.6798

Mostly also the fault of the people playing this game.I remember the times where i could solo roam at prime time and still found some proper fights and could have a good time win or lose,1on1’s even a thing that hardly ever happens anymore.Even roaming with 2 people died,all you see now is the occasionaly solo thief roamer or mesmer ( which i can understand considering all the ganking and blobbing and 10 people tryhard chasing one guy, its the best choise really ) or the typical 5 – 10 “roamers” all running broken stuff but still go down when they see 3 people but the anet gods decided downed state would be a fair mechanic in wvw so they still get saved by downed state in the end.

Also the radar upgrade for towers completely demolished small 2 – 5 man havoc groups trying to cap stuff.Theres just no point anymore at all to even try to ninja a t3 tower that has a radar inside because in 2 minutes you have 30 people on your kitten .I dont even get why this upgrade got buffed with a range increase,it’s the worst thing they implemented and zerg friendly,who the f needs scouts when you have a radar.

Besides zerging is becoming a bore aswell, theres no real tactics nothing,just get a ton of people and either kite around for 10 min spamming aoes from 1500 range while boring your mind out or it’s a one push melee charge.

They need to up the skill level in wvw a bit starting with the removal of downed state or atleast making it people can only get up one time instead of four times and the removal or nerf of radar.

(edited by Caedmon.6798)