Guild Wars 2

Lol perplexity is easy to counter condition removal + some patience for the confusion to away+ some blinds+ blocks+invun skills

sander.5830:

Lol perplexity is easy to counter condition removal + some patience for the confusion to away+ some blinds+ blocks+invun skills

50 whine posts will also get it done.

Yeh. I don’t understand how the guardian trait glacial hammer has a 30 second cooldown and perplexity runes has no cooldown.

Josh Davis.6015:

Perplexity Runes are definitely on our radar. I talked with our designers about this and you can expect some changes to this rune-set in the near future. I don’t have specific details on what changes we’ll be making, but I figured I’d let you guys know that we are looking at it.

Thanks guys!

Welp. Another ‘No fun allowed’ patch on the horizon.

I didn’t even use them for wvw, glad to know that my fun likely going to be nerfed because people cried on the forums.

bravoart.5308:

Josh Davis.6015:

Perplexity Runes are definitely on our radar. I talked with our designers about this and you can expect some changes to this rune-set in the near future. I don’t have specific details on what changes we’ll be making, but I figured I’d let you guys know that we are looking at it.

Thanks guys!

Welp. Another ‘No fun allowed’ patch on the horizon.

I didn’t even use them for wvw, glad to know that my fun likely going to be nerfed because people cried on the forums.

Don’t know what you’re complaining about if you dint use them for wvw. All I had to do is trait my thief for maximum initiative regen and just spam headshot over and over and can effortlessly kill 99% of the people I run into easily. the other 1% who stop attacking and don’t kill themselves instantly have no choice but to run away. Because I can reapply it faster than they can possibly cure it. I won’t even get into how bad it is on warrior or engineer. The only class that stands a chance is warrior with their near immunity to conditions. This is coming from someone who does use them, they NEED a huge nerf. They’re stupidly broken. They need an ICD of atleast 20 seconds.

Nice one grouch, this is about time, thanks !

Also, #playingwithgrouch ! LOST TO A GUARDIAN ! (im only making fun of you )

bravoart.5308:

Josh Davis.6015:

Perplexity Runes are definitely on our radar. I talked with our designers about this and you can expect some changes to this rune-set in the near future. I don’t have specific details on what changes we’ll be making, but I figured I’d let you guys know that we are looking at it.

Thanks guys!

Welp. Another ‘No fun allowed’ patch on the horizon.

I didn’t even use them for wvw, glad to know that my fun likely going to be nerfed because people cried on the forums.

“This totally BS and overpowered setup I was using was finally fixed, even though it was totally obvious that it was broken, I relied on it and now that it’s being fixed I’m gonna qq”

Would of been a better post.

Also, where else would you use perplexity besides WvW and PvP? They’re terrible for PVE since monsters dont’ use skills often enough to make confusion a good DPS mechanic.

Well Done! Op and your Supporters for committing Injustice

As the saying goes, "Ungratefulness is the Death of Life)

You are at Fault For Not Appreciating What Also Was Given To You)

Not others!

Your Appetite for Self-Centerdness is the cause of taking away the Life of Gw2.

wooot. woah finally anet answers avout this issue. ty

Just another proof positive, that if you whine enough ANET will nerf it.

I am loling at the people that spent the money for these as they will likely be useless because of poor testing, and the likely overboard nerf.

bob.8632:

Just another proof positive, that if you whine enough ANET will nerf it.

I am loling at the people that spent the money for these as they will likely be useless because of poor testing, and the likely overboard nerf.

They’re only a gold and a half.

Josh Davis.6015:

Perplexity Runes are definitely on our radar. I talked with our designers about this and you can expect some changes to this rune-set in the near future. I don’t have specific details on what changes we’ll be making, but I figured I’d let you guys know that we are looking at it.

Thanks guys!

You guys really need to start a list of things that you overlook in designing effects. How “On Heal” got into the tormenting runes without an icd really shows a lack of understanding of the game mechanics by people designing things to augment game mechanics.

Blix.8021:

bob.8632:

Just another proof positive, that if you whine enough ANET will nerf it.

I am loling at the people that spent the money for these as they will likely be useless because of poor testing, and the likely overboard nerf.

They’re only a gold and a half.

Really? They have always been 1.5g? Or were they more before people realized that ANET would have to nerf them due to forum outrage?

Just change it to be similar to the old mesmer confusion- stacks as much as you like but only lasts 3 seconds no matter how many stacks applied.

Then give it a 12 or 15 second cooldown, problem solved- still useful, but no longer OP.

It’s the proc along with the 15 second duration that needs to be fixed.

im sure these runes will still be viable on a mesmer as we already have access to confusion. the nerf will probably just prevent interruption heavy classes from abusing it. they were intended to buff confusion builds and not give free viable access to confusion to every class.
and no it needs more than 10 seconds icd. if it was only 10 secondons u can still stack em up to 25 with a non confusion class.

Josh Davis.6015:

Perplexity Runes are definitely on our radar. I talked with our designers about this and you can expect some changes to this rune-set in the near future. I don’t have specific details on what changes we’ll be making, but I figured I’d let you guys know that we are looking at it.

Thanks guys!

Pretty sure I knew this was coming the first day I used them. It was never a matter of should you nerf but when, how, and to what extent you nerf. Color me prophetic lol.

Victory.2879:

Just change it to be similar to the old mesmer confusion- stacks as much as you like but only lasts 3 seconds no matter how many stacks applied.

Then give it a 12 or 15 second cooldown, problem solved- still useful, but no longer OP.

It’s the proc along with the 15 second duration that needs to be fixed.

That would be completely useless, it’s procced by a stun or a daze so a 3 second duration would basically only let it go off from a stunbreak and maybe 1 other skill activation at the MOST.

bob.8632:

Blix.8021:

bob.8632:

Just another proof positive, that if you whine enough ANET will nerf it.

I am loling at the people that spent the money for these as they will likely be useless because of poor testing, and the likely overboard nerf.

They’re only a gold and a half.

Really? They have always been 1.5g? Or were they more before people realized that ANET would have to nerf them due to forum outrage?

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/44957

Buy listings have been about the same since shortly after they came out

selan.8354:

im sure these runes will still be viable on a mesmer as we already have access to confusion. the nerf will probably just prevent interruption heavy classes from abusing it. they were intended to buff confusion builds and not give free viable access to confusion to every class.
and no it needs more than 10 seconds icd. if it was only 10 secondons u can still stack em up to 25 with a non confusion class.

I am assuming a confusion class would be ones with the ability to apply it so that would be mesmers, engis, and warriors.

The 4 piece pretty much screams "Here have access to confusion every class.’

How else would you be stacking to 25 with a 10 second icd?

You are so upset about these runes still. It’s like you take it personal. You really think they created these runes just for 3 classes?

bob.8632:

Blix.8021:

bob.8632:

Just another proof positive, that if you whine enough ANET will nerf it.

I am loling at the people that spent the money for these as they will likely be useless because of poor testing, and the likely overboard nerf.

They’re only a gold and a half.

Really? They have always been 1.5g? Or were they more before people realized that ANET would have to nerf them due to forum outrage?

Yup. The runes are cheap because the components to make them are cheap.

Obscure One.4357:

Pretty sure I knew this was coming the first day I used them. It was never a matter of should you nerf but when, how, and to what extent you nerf. Color me prophetic lol.

Anet almost always nerfs around the problem and/or over-nerfs. So expect to see either:

• Confusion itself being nerfed and not the runes (e.g. confusion damage nerfed again)
• The runes nerfed so hard that no one will ever use them again.

bravoart.5308:

Josh Davis.6015:

Perplexity Runes are definitely on our radar. I talked with our designers about this and you can expect some changes to this rune-set in the near future. I don’t have specific details on what changes we’ll be making, but I figured I’d let you guys know that we are looking at it.

Thanks guys!

Welp. Another ‘No fun allowed’ patch on the horizon.

I didn’t even use them for wvw, glad to know that my fun likely going to be nerfed because people cried on the forums.

If anything online gamers will never learn. WoW had many nerfs over the years due to players uploading videos on youtube…“HEY GUYS LOOK WHAT I CAN DO PLAYING ONE HANDED ON MY KEYBOARD…!!”

If you having fun with it, keep it to yourselves, don’t even tell your server or guildmates how much “fun” you having.

bob.8632:

Just another proof positive, that if you whine enough ANET will nerf it.
.

Youtube videos never help in this matter… Like that dumb player sharing a link of him fighting with fireworks in his hand thinking it’s funny,…. enjoy your future nerf pal.

Josh Davis.6015:

Perplexity Runes are definitely on our radar. I talked with our designers about this and you can expect some changes to this rune-set in the near future. I don’t have specific details on what changes we’ll be making, but I figured I’d let you guys know that we are looking at it.

Thanks guys!

These runes have been completely broken for WvW since the moment they were implemented about 2 months ago now.
They should’ve been hotfixed asap after that patch went live, just like you did to the runes of agony which werent nearly as bad as this.

I’m not going to sit here and pat people on the back for finally noticing a serious issue like this, especially not after all the attention these runes have been getting from the community.
Really dropped the ball on this one.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Steelo.4597:

i found the perfect counter to perplexity runes….

behold…

perplexity runes!

seriously there have been countless threads about it, its beyond ridiculous that they havent been fixed asap 3 days after putting them in and its just dramatic.. i mean SAD AS HELL that we have to put up with that kitten, what, like 2 months now? The responsible people are just clueless beyond limits or they dont play the game at all, i dont know…

i mean, i usually dodge, and if i cant dodge, i usually use stability, and if i cant use stability, i take the confusion, and when i take the confusion, i usually remove it, and if i cant remove it, i kite and dont spam my skills like a mindless donkey and they go to forums to rage about it.

guess what? ;D

hide spoiler

learn to play. ive already told you how.

This! Thank you.

magicweaver.2695:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Steelo.4597:

i found the perfect counter to perplexity runes….

behold…

perplexity runes!

seriously there have been countless threads about it, its beyond ridiculous that they havent been fixed asap 3 days after putting them in and its just dramatic.. i mean SAD AS HELL that we have to put up with that kitten, what, like 2 months now? The responsible people are just clueless beyond limits or they dont play the game at all, i dont know…

i mean, i usually dodge, and if i cant dodge, i usually use stability, and if i cant use stability, i take the confusion, and when i take the confusion, i usually remove it, and if i cant remove it, i kite and dont spam my skills like a mindless donkey and they go to forums to rage about it.

guess what? ;D

hide spoiler

learn to play. ive already told you how.

This! Thank you.

I think they do need a little bit of a nerf. If you think it’s a l2p thing, then….

They’re so strong at the moment. Sure, if you dont have the condi clears to deal with you should kite, but it gets ridiculous, to the point where sometimes you’re running around taking free hits. 5 stacks is’t bad, and more often then not I’ll keep attacking though 5 if I have no cleanses as I can handle that much without it being too much of a headache, but then it just keeps coming and coming. A person doesn’t have to be too smart with it, they can just spam it and spam it and spam it. That’s where the problem is. You can learn to play around to a point I think before you realise that they do actually need to be toned down. A lot of people decide not to use these runes because of just how powered they are, and to a lot of WvWers I know have been dubbed scumbag runes, which is exactly what they are.

I know it’s hella fun using them against people and just watching them choke to all that confusion damage, but I don’t know, I just feel that it’s so easy to spam for some classes, to that point where it seriously needs some sort of tweak.

Ahlen.7591:

“This totally BS and overpowered setup I was using was finally fixed, even though it was totally obvious that it was broken, I relied on it and now that it’s being fixed I’m gonna qq”

Would of been a better post.

Also, where else would you use perplexity besides WvW and PvP? They’re terrible for PVE since monsters dont’ use skills often enough to make confusion a good DPS mechanic.

Wait. You acknowledge that I didn’t use them for wvw, and you also call me a whiner for them being op in wvw? Whhhaaaat?

I’m sorry, I thought I was allowed to have fun however I see fit. Just because you didn’t bother to find a way to make them fun in PvE doesn’t mean that I didn’t.

Nikkinella.8254:

Don’t know what you’re complaining about if you dint use them for wvw. All I had to do is trait my thief for maximum initiative regen and just spam headshot over and over and can effortlessly kill 99% of the people I run into easily. the other 1% who stop attacking and don’t kill themselves instantly have no choice but to run away. Because I can reapply it faster than they can possibly cure it. I won’t even get into how bad it is on warrior or engineer. The only class that stands a chance is warrior with their near immunity to conditions. This is coming from someone who does use them, they NEED a huge nerf. They’re stupidly broken. They need an ICD of atleast 20 seconds.

Just another potential notch in the belt of PvE getting altered by PvP changes. That’s why I’m trying to make my voice heard. I’m not arguing their status in pvp, nor do I care what they do in wvw since I never step foot in there beyond the badge vendor.

Player Character.9467:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Steelo.4597:

1. game.slayer – uses them on his elementalist (!!) and brags in the forum how he would kill anyone 1v1.

2. kuora – said i was a 2222 thief who needs l2p when i stated the opinion warrior stuns are over the top atm in the warrior forum. (i main warrior with 1.5k hours)

just so you know who those scrubs are if you want to “discuss” with them. it has zero to do with l2p, the runes are broken. people saying otherwise either dont have a clue about the game (game.slayer) or are just plain trolling out of habit (kuora). probably both.

Thats because dire gear is the only thing overpowered here. that cat is ridiculous. i have two rupt skills on a 40s+ cd each. putting an ICD on perp runes, say, 30s, would barely even nerf my build what so ever. when i encounter a stun/condi war with perp runes, you know what i do? its calledcounter-play.
“WUT IS COWNTER PWAY?” you ask?

Blind
Remove condi
invuln skills
kite
block
evade

now if youre so bad that you cant do that, and instead want to come to forums to rage about how you cant counter-play somone, be my guest. youre just making yourself look silly.
Dire gear is the only real problem here. condi + ability to flat out tank is stupid. but these runes are fine.

The only condi removal that counters perplexity runes is passive, otherwise you just proc the confusion stacks and if your removal requires a channel they might even get to interrupt that too.

There are several ways to remove the Perplexity Confusion condition. Confusion is a condition. It’s not different than other conditions, so your same skill that would remove conditions removes confusion.:

I play engineer as my main. I do not see issues with the levels of confusion or lack of removals for it.
Engineer – Elixir C, healing turret when overcharged, and I think elixir gun (I haven’t used it in a while, so I am fuzzy on that) and we have traits for managing conditions as well.

My fiance plays Necromancer and he said Death Shroud (eats conditions in the second health bar), Consume Conditions / Heal, Staff 4 transfers it to someone (enemy), Dagger 4 transfers it to someone (enemy), Well is Power converts the condition to a boon.

I have seen warriors have shouts that consume conditions and there is some offhand weapon that has a trait that can remove condition (I am not a high level warrior yet, so I don’t know which it is)

Thief has stealth abilities that remove conditions.

By no means are you only left with passivity. You just need to know what your class has to work with. Just because someone makes a build that you don’t want to change your build to deal with it, doesn’t mean they are wrong for making the build in the first place. You have to be willing to pick what you are wanting to combat. You can’t have everything all at once – thus why there is only 1 heal skill available at a time, 3 slot skills, and an elite skill. Also why we only have 70 trait points and not 150+ to get every trait. This is not a sandbox game.

Either use skills or smarts to avoid confusion killing you.

I play almost exclusively in WvWvW on my engineer. I am running with perplexity runes in my armor. I do see confusion put on my enemy – but in no way is it excessive compared to a theif’s ability to stealth stomp me, or a mesmer’s ability to stealth take a keep, or a warriors ability to knock me down and keep me stunned so I can’t get away. I learned to deal, I learned to accept, and I found something that made my build competitive to everyone else’s build.

I will add while I see confusion be put on enemy, I am also not instantly seeing them die in two moves – they are often savvy enough to remove it, or otherwise not continue to get the self damage, which is really all I want – in live action WvWvW play there is no way you can survive focusing on one single player all the time. You have to be looking at the big picture, which is a blob – not one. If you look at the 1, you are going to get killed in an instant.

scootshoot.6583:

bob.8632:

Just another proof positive, that if you whine enough ANET will nerf it.
.

Youtube videos never help in this matter… Like that dumb player sharing a link of him fighting with fireworks in his hand thinking it’s funny,…. enjoy your future nerf pal.

Uhh… he made that video to showcase how crazy perplex runes currently are. The dumb player fighting with fireworks happens to be one of the most impressive thieves in this game. If you knew how a thief worked, you would be impressed. All he used was scorpion wire and basilisk venom for interrupts. The players killed themselves. That is not how this game is meant to be.

I’m happy for the change. I believe it was a simple oversight initially and am happy to see it being looked at!

Lord Kuru.3685:

Obscure One.4357:

Pretty sure I knew this was coming the first day I used them. It was never a matter of should you nerf but when, how, and to what extent you nerf. Color me prophetic lol.

Anet almost always nerfs around the problem and/or over-nerfs. So expect to see either:

• Confusion itself being nerfed and not the runes (e.g. confusion damage nerfed again)
• The runes nerfed so hard that no one will ever use them again.

Well when you’re right you’re right. Over nerfing is the Arena Net way. If they’re smart they’ll just give it an ICD after procing on a single target. If they aren’t they’ll do something outlandish like taking off the confusion condition entirely and make it summon glittering bunny rabbits that fart rainbows on proc in an attempt to annoy the target with offensively cute particle effects…because we all want more particle effects!

Opc.4718:

Well seeing as conditions are pretty much a huge part of the pvp meta (and I mean pvp in the general sense of the word, not the game mode), I don’t see why you wouldn’t be running condition removals in wvw in the first place. Without sufficient condi removal, you’re pretty much walking free loot bags. If you’re unwilling to sacrifice certain utilities/trait points to have condi removal at hand at all times, you only have yourself to blame when you get melted down by things like confusion. The 4 classes I know well and regularly play (mes, guard, engi, necro) all have sufficient condition removals with several commonly viable wvw builds. I know thief and ele also have plenty of condi removal options. I’ve just never found myself in the position where confusion has become an issue during a fight, but maybe that’s because I haven’t met any good players running them yet.

Absolutely! It seems to me that everyone can remove if they are willing to run a decent wvw build and not just go for the glass cannon / extreme damage type. They have no mitigation.

I only really have enough experience on Engineer to speak of, and the knowledge I have of other classes are only from interaction with friends, but truly, none of us has any fear of these runes because we run with an appropriate means of countering.

Cynz.9437:

Opc.4718:

Well seeing as conditions are pretty much a huge part of the pvp meta (and I mean pvp in the general sense of the word, not the game mode), I don’t see why you wouldn’t be running condition removals in wvw in the first place. Without sufficient condi removal, you’re pretty much walking free loot bags. If you’re unwilling to sacrifice certain utilities/trait points to have condi removal at hand at all times, you only have yourself to blame when you get melted down by things like confusion. The 4 classes I know well and regularly play (mes, guard, engi, necro) all have sufficient condition removals with several commonly viable wvw builds. I know thief and ele also have plenty of condi removal options. I’ve just never found myself in the position where confusion has become an issue during a fight, but maybe that’s because I haven’t met any good players running them yet.

the problem is that it is really easy to reapply it while removing condition has certain requirements and is usually not spammable

I will bring example a thief: yes they can trait into condi removal, but they would have to go in stealth to do so – to go in stealth they either would have to attack or use relative long CD spells like refuge or hide in shadows.

Not to mention there is DR on stealth, meaning a thief can stealth only 3 times in given amount of time, after that they are immune to stealth for a while and can’t remove conditions outside of…activating sigil which also has long CD. Once thief has no means of removing confusion except to wait.

Additinally, either it is black powder/heartseeker stealth or CnD stealth, all of them do dmg, meaning if thief has confusion stacks on them they dmg themself trying to remove confusion.

And once again, not to forget that all of that either costs initiative or has long CD, so is not spammable compared to confusion spam.

Now in real situation, knowing how much time thief would spend trying to remove those confusions they are eaither dead or had to run away.

Simply put there, no matter how you try you won’t have enough condition removals to deal with all those conditions. The rune needs long ICD.

P.S. now i just noticed that you play mesmer, engi and guardian, so it explains why you would defend something so broken.

All conditions are easy to apply while the removal is not spammable. This is the same with bleed, blind, vulnerability, torment, everything.

People are just needing to be aware of what is being done to and around them and not face roll on the skills.

Heck, I’ve died from confusion stacks cause I got tunnel visioned, but I don’t belly ache and cry. I just fight back, or I res and repair and try to pay better attention next time.

It’s an issue of not cool down, but an unwillingness to think that something might need to be tweaked. We (my fiance and I) are always tweaking and testing our build and new builds. Just because I am running perplexity now doesn’t mean I will tomorrow or the next day. Open minds can find a solution to anything. Closed minds cry and pitch fits.

This thread is just funny to read coming from the perspective of a Mesmer.

No non-Mesmer really gave a crap when Confusion was stomped into the ground, and confusion is a Mesmer’s primary source of condition damage—really, it’s the Mesmer’s only reliable way to apply it.

And yet, when someone talks about nerfing perplexity, every thief, warrior, and engineer comes out of the woodwork to defend it.

A significant problem with perplexity is now it gives certain professions access to confusion when they didn’t need it, at least not in the way perplexity applies it. Engineers and thieves already had powerful condition spec’s (and could and do usually go tanky because they don’t rely entirely on precision to generate extra bleeds), and perplexity allows them to cover the confusion condition with other, lesser conditions to make cleansing hard.

As for the warrior, well, a warrior can have approximately six interrupts from their weapon bars alone and all on relatively short cooldowns. So a class with up to six interrupts on short cooldowns, who does big damage, 400 hp/sec regen, loses conditions with each burst skill, who can easily keep 15 seconds worth of big confusion on you…yeah, you should just wait it out.

It’s ridiculous that perplexity runes are better at applying confusion than the class the condition was supposedly built to service.

Something that seems to be unaccounted for is there is no counter to condition damage, only condition duration via condition removal. Condition Removals limit the time you will suffer a condition based on it’s cool down regardless of the duration of the actual condition. Condition Damage can’t be countered unless you’re an Engineer under 25% health with Automated Response traited. This is the reason the runes are so potent, the additional damage produced by them cannot be countered. Condition Removals don’t mean a thing when I’ve put enough conditions on you to tick away over 5k of your hp per second and I can keep reapplying them as much as I want. As a matter of fact the first night I used them I face rolled a Guardian who died having literally only used his stun breaks and condition removals during the whole 10-20 second fight. If you play Engineer and don’t straight murder kids with these runes it doesn’t mean they’re balanced, it means you aren’t good at playing an Engineer.

I think it is hilarious that people are actually trying to defend this rune set not being overpowered. Let us be honest here for condition classes it is BY FAR the best rune set out there. I main an engineer and with little to no effort while using this with pistol shield I can put 20 stacks of confusion up on people by just using pistol 3 and spamming shield 4, and 5 every time they are off cd. Let us also consider you get a free 3 stacks of confusion every 15 seconds from the 4 bonus. I mean really how can you sit here and defend this rune set? You say learn to play equip condition removals? LOL ok so I should equip elixir c and give up any escape viability for a 40 second condition cleanse? Get real by the time I use that in 15 seconds I’ll have a minimum of 6 more stacks on me, not to mention other conditions.

I think the big issue is players are getting upset because their advantage is soon to be handicapped as it should be. Look at power and defensive rune set bonuses and show me one other that is partially on par with this. Anyway I’m glad they are getting changed its been needing to happen for a while, and that is coming from an engineer who used to run them.

Obscure One.4357:

Josh Davis.6015:

Perplexity Runes are definitely on our radar. I talked with our designers about this and you can expect some changes to this rune-set in the near future. I don’t have specific details on what changes we’ll be making, but I figured I’d let you guys know that we are looking at it.

Thanks guys!

Pretty sure I knew this was coming the first day I used them. It was never a matter of should you nerf but when, how, and to what extent you nerf. Color me prophetic lol.

More just an indication of how obvious it was from the start that they were overpowered and really should never have made it past testing.

zaragoz.6351:

I think it is hilarious that people are actually trying to defend this rune set not being overpowered. Let us be honest here for condition classes it is BY FAR the best rune set out there. I main an engineer and with little to no effort while using this with pistol shield I can put 20 stacks of confusion up on people by just using pistol 3 and spamming shield 4, and 5 every time they are off cd. Let us also consider you get a free 3 stacks of confusion every 15 seconds from the 4 bonus. I mean really how can you sit here and defend this rune set? You say learn to play equip condition removals? LOL ok so I should equip elixir c and give up any escape viability for a 40 second condition cleanse? Get real by the time I use that in 15 seconds I’ll have a minimum of 6 more stacks on me, not to mention other conditions.

I think the big issue is players are getting upset because their advantage is soon to be handicapped as it should be. Look at power and defensive rune set bonuses and show me one other that is partially on par with this. Anyway I’m glad they are getting changed its been needing to happen for a while, and that is coming from an engineer who used to run them.

Not really. Dhuumfire necros and HGH engies are one of the best condi specs out there, yet they use nightmare or undead runes. This rune set isn’t overpowered at all, it has certain counters just like any other specs out there. It’s just that people never really played against a confusion stacking spec before and instead of trying to adapt, they run to the forums and cry all day. Seems like it worked, too.

There is no doubt in my mind they query the output of XYZ before they touch it. If they apply a nerf, it is most likely due to a significant imbalance on Anet’s end. This is the reason a lot of players “cry” about something and it never changes while others “cry” and it does. The posters complaining about perplexity simply alerted ANet so they would check it out themselves.

As for significant nerfs… there have been few in this game. Even after those nerfs, every class still has multiple builds that work well in some form or role in WvW (with the exception of maybe the ranger and that problem isn’t from nerfs).

Lastly I would point out that whining about whining is whining.

Lina.9640:

This thread is just funny to read coming from the perspective of a Mesmer.

No non-Mesmer really gave a crap when Confusion was stomped into the ground, and confusion is a Mesmer’s primary source of condition damage—really, it’s the Mesmer’s only reliable way to apply it.

And yet, when someone talks about nerfing perplexity, every thief, warrior, and engineer comes out of the woodwork to defend it.

A significant problem with perplexity is now it gives certain professions access to confusion when they didn’t need it, at least not in the way perplexity applies it. Engineers and thieves already had powerful condition spec’s (and could and do usually go tanky because they don’t rely entirely on precision to generate extra bleeds), and perplexity allows them to cover the confusion condition with other, lesser conditions to make cleansing hard.

As for the warrior, well, a warrior can have approximately six interrupts from their weapon bars alone and all on relatively short cooldowns. So a class with up to six interrupts on short cooldowns, who does big damage, 400 hp/sec regen, loses conditions with each burst skill, who can easily keep 15 seconds worth of big confusion on you…yeah, you should just wait it out.

It’s ridiculous that perplexity runes are better at applying confusion than the class the condition was supposedly built to service.

Good post this is spot on about the problem with the runes.

kuora.5402:

zaragoz.6351:

I think it is hilarious that people are actually trying to defend this rune set not being overpowered. Let us be honest here for condition classes it is BY FAR the best rune set out there. I main an engineer and with little to no effort while using this with pistol shield I can put 20 stacks of confusion up on people by just using pistol 3 and spamming shield 4, and 5 every time they are off cd. Let us also consider you get a free 3 stacks of confusion every 15 seconds from the 4 bonus. I mean really how can you sit here and defend this rune set? You say learn to play equip condition removals? LOL ok so I should equip elixir c and give up any escape viability for a 40 second condition cleanse? Get real by the time I use that in 15 seconds I’ll have a minimum of 6 more stacks on me, not to mention other conditions.

I think the big issue is players are getting upset because their advantage is soon to be handicapped as it should be. Look at power and defensive rune set bonuses and show me one other that is partially on par with this. Anyway I’m glad they are getting changed its been needing to happen for a while, and that is coming from an engineer who used to run them.

Not really. Dhuumfire necros and HGH engies are one of the best condi specs out there, yet they use nightmare or undead runes. This rune set isn’t overpowered at all, it has certain counters just like any other specs out there. It’s just that people never really played against a confusion stacking spec before and instead of trying to adapt, they run to the forums and cry all day. Seems like it worked, too.

Okay so you are comparing hgh engineers who sacrifice all their utlities for damage to a kitten runeset? The runes are op no class should have the ability to spam confusion the way it allows engineers to, and that is just the way it is by using two abilities you get 10 stacks of confusion little risk vs a huge reward.. and if the shield 5 interupts 2 times thats 10 stacks from it alone….

morrolan.9608:

Obscure One.4357:

Josh Davis.6015:

Perplexity Runes are definitely on our radar. I talked with our designers about this and you can expect some changes to this rune-set in the near future. I don’t have specific details on what changes we’ll be making, but I figured I’d let you guys know that we are looking at it.

Thanks guys!

Pretty sure I knew this was coming the first day I used them. It was never a matter of should you nerf but when, how, and to what extent you nerf. Color me prophetic lol.

More just an indication of how obvious it was from the start that they were overpowered and really should never have made it past testing.

Testing?! Testing is for little kitten ing wussies! Real developers implement first and ask questions later…and if they don’t like the answer they call you a vocal minority and ignore you! That’s how real men make games, and if you don’t like it you can go kitten yourself!

…oh man, these kitten ing devs bro…these kitten ing devs…lol

Zumy.6318:

Its not the thief, I do that with every class I play. I am just better.

;-)

On a serious note: if any class has the tools to beat the condition meta it is P/D-Thief.
Just stop the spam and quit thinking black or white. I am grey.

A warrior running Hoelbrak and Lemongrass is the best at dealing with condi bunkers hands down. A D/P could use Perplexity/Head Shot to beat an Engi but necros are very hard to kill with condition damage.

Thieves generally suck fighting condi-bunkers since every condi removal we have is tied to exiting the fight and taking pressure off. Claims of “I yet have to die vs one of the above classes in my PD build” means you have not fought enough or dueled many skilled players.

You original point about Generosity being a deciding factor against Perplexity is still flawed. The 10s ICD and the damage taken to deliver it limits its effectiveness against a runeset that has no ICD.

I’m all for reigning in the perplexity runes, but I got a feeling they’ll be overnerfed. Personally I wish they’d buff other runes a bit and make them better options.

For example, Noble runes make no sense. The 6-rune bonus is a single target version of the 2-rune bonus on altruism runes. Thats definitely not right.

Josh Davis.6015:

Perplexity Runes are definitely on our radar. I talked with our designers about this and you can expect some changes to this rune-set in the near future. I don’t have specific details on what changes we’ll be making, but I figured I’d let you guys know that we are looking at it.

Thanks guys!

Josh, I’m sure this post just made a lot of people happy. The torment runes were nerfed immediately but these remained when they are so abusable.

I made a bug thread about this, but just to check – are you guys aware the runes do not apply any confusion duration bonus (should be +30% with all 6 runes). Also, if someone is using perplexity runes, and a theif uses basi to interrupt something the perplexity runes user is using, somehow they get 5 stacks of confusion. A strange bug but it does occur.

Lina.9640:

This thread is just funny to read coming from the perspective of a Mesmer.

No non-Mesmer really gave a crap when Confusion was stomped into the ground, and confusion is a Mesmer’s primary source of condition damage—really, it’s the Mesmer’s only reliable way to apply it.

And yet, when someone talks about nerfing perplexity, every thief, warrior, and engineer comes out of the woodwork to defend it.

A significant problem with perplexity is now it gives certain professions access to confusion when they didn’t need it, at least not in the way perplexity applies it. Engineers and thieves already had powerful condition spec’s (and could and do usually go tanky because they don’t rely entirely on precision to generate extra bleeds), and perplexity allows them to cover the confusion condition with other, lesser conditions to make cleansing hard.

As for the warrior, well, a warrior can have approximately six interrupts from their weapon bars alone and all on relatively short cooldowns. So a class with up to six interrupts on short cooldowns, who does big damage, 400 hp/sec regen, loses conditions with each burst skill, who can easily keep 15 seconds worth of big confusion on you…yeah, you should just wait it out.

It’s ridiculous that perplexity runes are better at applying confusion than the class the condition was supposedly built to service.

very much agree with this. this rune wasnt supposed to the new viable access to confusion for everyone. do u guys have any idea how much a glam mesmer gave up for high confusion dmg and high stacks?

check for yourself
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQNAW7dlw1qqHVzpGg9IxJFMv5oecdrXdSKKNqB-jEDBINCy0CCy5QFRjtaqIasaZAaIY6YLq2kD1KOQWywGzIeEYCBsYNA-w

no dps, little health, no clone spam, long long long cooldowns. this is what glamours are. and if u check the duration of confusion on our build u will see its never lasting long. 5 stacks for 15 seconds for 1 interrupt is too much and clearly broken.
so u guys cried over confusion and were ok with an entire build made unviable, but now because u got to abuse a rune u cry because there will be a nerf?lol.
and im sure mesmers and engis will still be able to use the rune after the nerf as we already had access to that condition before.

why do i get the feeling that the same people that are complaining that this is overpowered are the same ones that believe perma-stunlock wars are perfectly balanced.

Josh Davis.6015:

Perplexity Runes are definitely on our radar. I talked with our designers about this and you can expect some changes to this rune-set in the near future. I don’t have specific details on what changes we’ll be making, but I figured I’d let you guys know that we are looking at it.

Thanks guys!

good one. at last. the 10sec ICD is long overdue.

scootshoot.6583:

bob.8632:

Just another proof positive, that if you whine enough ANET will nerf it.
.

Youtube videos never help in this matter… Like that dumb player sharing a link of him fighting with fireworks in his hand thinking it’s funny,…. enjoy your future nerf pal.

This is no laughing matter, sir.

Even though I use them, I am OUTRAGED that fireworks somehow made it past the balancing team and into live gameplay. Fireworks are single-handedly powerful enough to be its own build regardless of profession and can easily lock down just about any other build in the game, besides another fireworks build, of course. I highly suggest you get your own fireworks and try them out so you can see for yourself how broken they really are.

#NerfFireworks2013 >:/

well i cant costume brawl while using these runes as each interrupt damages the other brawlers XD

azizul.8469:

Josh Davis.6015:

Perplexity Runes are definitely on our radar. I talked with our designers about this and you can expect some changes to this rune-set in the near future. I don’t have specific details on what changes we’ll be making, but I figured I’d let you guys know that we are looking at it.

Thanks guys!

good one. at last. the 10sec ICD is long overdue.

6 needs a longer cooldown imo. the 5 stacks last for almost 15 seconds after all.