Guild Wars 2

Nanyetah Elohi.4852:

The promised change might have been the new Antitoxin Spray heal skill that removes confusion.

They will change the set of runes it self they said. Even with that heal, you click that heal and you die when you have 20+ stacks of confusion and if you dont, 3 seconds later you get them again.

I haven’t tried the heal yet, I just wondered when I saw it if that was supposed to be the fix for Perplexity.

nerf the torment runes now – unless the whole purpose of it is to create yet another inbalance for elitist players. – they issued the new torment runes mirroring the same stats as perplexity – if they nerf the perplexity runes – while putting out torment runes unchanged – then they are doing it on purpose.

Sanlucifer.1742:

They will change the set of runes it self they said.

I challenge you to quote me an Anet rep that stated this. The closest you will find is them stating “we will look into them” and all you see is “will will change this”……….Stop posting such misinformation.

Nanyetah Elohi.4852:

The promised change might have been the new Antitoxin Spray heal skill that removes confusion.

What “promised” change. Link me to a “promise” they made to change it.

My biggest problem with perplexity runes is that they created a build. Most runes only aid in a build, or further your build, or balance your build, and cover up a weakness in your build, or build your build, or synonym your build.

Perplexity runes literally inspired a build. And by inspired a build i mean, dawned dire/carrion gear, threw some rupts in there and lold at the results.

I think these runes should aid players who already utilize confusion, not grant any dork that can spam 4 unlimited condition power.

I use torment runes because i play a p/d thief. I mostly use my 1 and 3 skill to stack torment and bleeding. Knowing that my torment skill drained my initiative rather fast i bought the torment ruins so i didnt have to spam as much now i can stack torment without wasting all my initiative!

so basically it’s ok to stay perma stealth, turn people to stone, so they can’t fight when you’re visible, go invisible, then stack torment which can cast 2 times per second if I move, go invis again, watch me die from trying to run – then spike me from the back……..but nerf me with light armor, slow mobility because i can actually end your character just as fast ?

more shiny stuff please!!

ryan.6217:

My biggest problem with perplexity runes is that they created a build. Most runes only aid in a build, or further your build, or balance your build, and cover up a weakness in your build, or build your build, or synonym your build.

Perplexity runes literally inspired a build. And by inspired a build i mean, dawned dire/carrion gear, threw some rupts in there and lold at the results.

I think these runes should aid players who already utilize confusion, not grant any dork that can spam 4 unlimited condition power.

I use torment runes because i play a p/d thief. I mostly use my 1 and 3 skill to stack torment and bleeding. Knowing that my torment skill drained my initiative rather fast i bought the torment ruins so i didnt have to spam as much now i can stack torment without wasting all my initiative!

This is where I respectfully disagree. I think it is awesome that an item can get players to think outside the box of their standard builds to make something unique. That’s what makes this MMO so different from most. You don’t have the ridged cookie cutter builds that everyone has to use if you are playing “x” class. Most have a swing of 10-15 pts.

So an item that can totally create new builds for some classes is awesome.

Wraistlin.6072:

ryan.6217:

My biggest problem with perplexity runes is that they created a build. Most runes only aid in a build, or further your build, or balance your build, and cover up a weakness in your build, or build your build, or synonym your build.

Perplexity runes literally inspired a build. And by inspired a build i mean, dawned dire/carrion gear, threw some rupts in there and lold at the results.

I think these runes should aid players who already utilize confusion, not grant any dork that can spam 4 unlimited condition power.

I use torment runes because i play a p/d thief. I mostly use my 1 and 3 skill to stack torment and bleeding. Knowing that my torment skill drained my initiative rather fast i bought the torment ruins so i didnt have to spam as much now i can stack torment without wasting all my initiative!

This is where I respectfully disagree. I think it is awesome that an item can get players to think outside the box of their standard builds to make something unique. That’s what makes this MMO so different from most. You don’t have the ridged cookie cutter builds that everyone has to use if you are playing “x” class. Most have a swing of 10-15 pts.

So an item that can totally create new builds for some classes is awesome.

Touche courteous responder. I completely agree with your concept, but there is nothing outside the box or unique about " Omga i hav axis to confuz if i spam 4"… otherwise im all for outside the box!!! I’m even, i guess, fine with the fact that these runes allow people to use confusion that previously couldn’t. My problem is that this rune makes it so people don’t even have to think! Just outlast your opponents condi clear and watch him/her squirm.

Ricky.4706:

so basically it’s ok to stay perma stealth, turn people to stone, so they can’t fight when you’re visible, go invisible, then stack torment which can cast 2 times per second if I move, go invis again, watch me die from trying to run – then spike me from the back……..but nerf me with light armor, slow mobility because i can actually end your character just as fast ?

more shiny stuff please!!

Sir i would never play so disrespectfully. Good heavens what you described is filth. Thief filth.

yeah, but unfortunately not everyone is as honorable as you. -nods with respect-

in the first pvp game ever – the teams had to agree not to use op spells – that’s what friends did to keep it fun and competitive for both teams. There was no game kept score, simply mutual respect.

there were also a lot of holes in your concept. like basilisk venom is removable, cant perma stealth with p/d, spike with what? more conditions how will that hurt your back? And why would you run from 2 conditions? most i can pull off is about 7 bleeds and 7 torment at a time. That not too unbearable if you have SOME condi removal. Confusion that you can stack up to about 13 and re-apply constantly is a totally different story my man.

the cool downs and light armor are not in the mesmers favor – a thief can literally dodge conditions off with traits – it’s unbalanced. The mesmers chance is in being able to move fast to compensate this difference – and even then I’m forced to do a different build than my preferred greatsword build to afford that luxury of moving fast per clone in world.

damage and speed are my defense. nerfing that – you may as well strap me to a chair, slap me and say you won.

traveler runes cost over 50 gold …as a wvw’r I have to stop playing wvw to grind for them. so that’s another flaw. = thieves get a signet that’s insta speed. – then get to heal miles away while in stealth.

Ricky.4706:

the cool downs and light armor are not in the mesmers favor – a thief can literally dodge conditions off with traits – it’s unbalanced. The mesmers chance is in being able to move fast to compensate this difference – and even then I’m forced to do a different build than my preferred greatsword build to afford that luxury of moving fast per clone in world.

damage and speed are my defense. nerfing that – you may as well strap me to a chair, slap me and say you won.

traveler runes cost over 50 gold …as a wvw’r I have to stop playing wvw to grind for them. so that’s another flaw. = thieves get a signet that’s insta speed. – then get to heal miles away while in stealth.

If you’re a mesmer I’m sure you’ll do fine with perplex getting nerfed a little man you can stack confusion even without op confusion stacks… also, what thief did you meet that could dodge off conditions? i want his name so i can get his secret

unfortunately – they nerfed confusion itself as well. I think I do ( or did ) great in wvw despite all the weaknesses they gave to mesmers. but as is , before the torment runes – thieves just appear – spike – immobilize – hide – and I’m here trying to run away like a pregnant hobbit. – sure I can teleport – with a massive cooldown. sure I can invis – for 1 -2 seconds – light armor – enough said.

that’s true as well! I won’t lie i am not scared of most mesmers you guys are really slow… when i fight you guys i do tend to click my 2 skill a bit more. My apologies good sir!

EDIT: also i just found these torment runes like 2 days ago! i had know idea there was so much controversy about them!

it’s not your fault – this is just the way the cards were dealt – so I’m not going against your preferred build – I’m just saying that they give one class a set of tools and the other class loses a set of tools- then when you finally figure out ways to adjust to your liking, they nerf it again. I personally haven’t even bothered with perplexity runes because I don’t depend on confusion in it’s wvw nerfed state – I usually go for raw damage with a touch of condition to cover people who run too fast for me to wabble over for a finishing move.

I can’t even consider spending a fortune on perplexity runes to test it because it will change and they will add some other rune in the future that will render any tests I did now moot.

It’s frustrating not to be able to formulate plans when you are either out numbered – got nerfed or simply don’t have the tools you need to run the build you want – it’s not like we have many skills and weapons to choose from to begin with. I’m facerolling the npc’s in pve though from so much damage output in my mesmer, but i don’t have to run as much and confusion actually works right there lol

coglin.1867:

Sanlucifer.1742:

They will change the set of runes it self they said.

I challenge you to quote me an Anet rep that stated this. The closest you will find is them stating “we will look into them” and all you see is “will will change this”……….Stop posting such misinformation.

Nanyetah Elohi.4852:

The promised change might have been the new Antitoxin Spray heal skill that removes confusion.

What “promised” change. Link me to a “promise” they made to change it.

hmm..I think it is upthread here. It’s a comment by a test engineer at ANet probably 2 (?) weeks ago. He said they were definitely going to do “something” about Perplexity runes.

ryan.6217:

Touche courteous responder. I completely agree with your concept, but there is nothing outside the box or unique about " Omga i hav axis to confuz if i spam 4"… otherwise im all for outside the box!!! I’m even, i guess, fine with the fact that these runes allow people to use confusion that previously couldn’t. My problem is that this rune makes it so people don’t even have to think! Just outlast your opponents condi clear and watch him/her squirm.

Your argument here very literally applies to any and every condition at all. As much as I can appreciate what your trying to say, you cannot make a statement that applies to any condition and expect it to justify nerfing another.

Ricky.4706:

nerf the torment runes now – unless the whole purpose of it is to create yet another inbalance for elitist players. – they issued the new torment runes mirroring the same stats as perplexity – if they nerf the perplexity runes – while putting out torment runes unchanged – then they are doing it on purpose.

Umm, there is a massive difference between perplexity and torment runes. Perplexity runes can cast 3 confuse stacks (15s cooldown) on a standard hit and 5 on an interrupt (NO cooldown) – and that’s OP even without the confuse duration. Tormenting runes only do duration with 2 stacks on heal with a 20s cooldown… you barely get 50% uptime from the runes let alone any stacking ability with them. And if the duration boost is the issue, then any runes that boost bleeding duration would need nerfs too.

No, Perplexity is alone in it’s ability to stack 25 of a condition on it’s own. The Confuse on Interrupt should be on a minimum of 10s, probably on a 20s CD.

I stack confusion to 25 now without using these runes. Maxing a stack of conditions is no logical reasoning to cry "OP.

To stack 25 stacks from just the runes, as your claiming, you would have to be interrupted 4-5 times in a 10s time period.

If your getting interrupted that often in that short amount of time, the runes are not the problem. Its truly amazing how many players are their own worst enemy and wat to cry nerf when they get themselves interrupted 4+ times in 10s.

@ coglin: challenge accepted!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Perplexity-runes/page/2#post2994201

Sanlucifer.1742:

@ coglin: challenge accepted!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Perplexity-runes/page/2#post2994201

Yup, your right. That is the post I had in mind, but I remembered it correctly. There are plenty of ways they can change these while still allowing them to be solid runes to use.

What i have trouble swallowing though, is players stating that they are getting 25 stacks of concussion on them purely based on the runes alone. With a 10 second duration you would have to be interrupted 5 tines in a 10s period for this to occur.

Due to the fact that the confusion duration on these runes is bugged and does not work your being interrupted 5 times in 10s you, deserve to lose the fight

my real debate is that with all these changing runes and grinding for stats – it would be nice if you didn’t spend 60 gold on getting runes only to find out they got nerfed the next week – i mean seriously – this grind is so unwarranted. I left wvw for a while because I spent so much time sighing in my vault trying to get stuff I want for wvw – those stats mean everything to a pvp’r.

so i’d rather wait till it’s official and not changing before I find out I have to destroy all the gold and time I put into getting the equipment I wanted to pvp – than sit on a forum debating about how I feel done wrong. I don’t like complaining – bragging yes..complaining no.

coglin.1867:

Sanlucifer.1742:

@ coglin: challenge accepted!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Perplexity-runes/page/2#post2994201

Yup, your right. That is the post I had in mind, but I remembered it correctly. There are plenty of ways they can change these while still allowing them to be solid runes to use.

What i have trouble swallowing though, is players stating that they are getting 25 stacks of concussion on them purely based on the runes alone. With a 10 second duration you would have to be interrupted 5 tines in a 10s period for this to occur.

Due to the fact that the confusion duration on these runes is bugged and does not work your being interrupted 5 times in 10s you, deserve to lose the fight

engineers only need 2 interrupts and some skills to get 25, pull at the right time, prybar concussion bomb swap to p/s spam shield till it works and static shot boom 25 stacks in less then 10 seconds, hell if your a good player you can do that in less then then 5 seconds, also every one running conditions is using 40% Condi duration food and alot of the engineers I know also throw 30 points into explosives getting a total 70% condition duration now sure the rune bonuses don’t work but the other bonuses sure do so now I’ve got even longer to troll around, just about the only thing stopping 25 confusion is the Condi clear spam everyone does the moment they see confusion stack up.

on another note, mind telling me why so many Jq roamers (specially engineers) use perplexity since ya know it’s not overpowered.

hugemistake.5317:

Moon.6371:

Wow, kingcracus and hugemistake, you`re pretty good at making clear you`re either new to the game or just terribad. You know, there are classes, that have casttimes on 95% of their skills, autoattack included.

Try duelling a decent perplexity interrupt mesmer, thief or engi (with instant, undisplayed and in some cases spamable interrupts) with such a class and please fraps your great play to show the world how easy it is to counter.

I bet you guys never leave the cozyness of your blob to actually do some pvp in wvw, judging by your posts this is the only possible explanation for so much ignorance and trashtalk.

Best regards

No really, you need to L2P. Perplexity rune on a thief is cheasy, good players have no problem at all beating a perplexity thief. Engineers are able to stack 25 confusion without the rune. To be able to stack 25 confusion on someone with perplexity rune, you need to be interrupted 4-5 times in a few seconds. If it happens to you, you s*ck and deserve being downed by your opponent.

So I insist, L2P,

Regards

Your maths is bad. L2M?

This is quite simple really guys, its a Thread with “7” pages about runes, has that EVER happened Before ?, NO

That in itself should be an indication wether or not the Runes is indeed OP….

Just Saying

Ravezaar.4951:

This is quite simple really guys, its a Thread with “7” pages about runes, has that EVER happened Before ?, NO

That in itself should be an indication wether or not the Runes is indeed OP….

Just Saying

What if I told you anet doesn’t decide what they change about their game based on the number of pages a thread has. http://whinybaby.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/mind-blown.jpg

ukuni.8745:

engineers only need 2 interrupts and some skills to get 25, pull at the right time, prybar concussion bomb swap to p/s spam shield till it works and static shot boom 25 stacks in less then 10 seconds, hell if your a good player you can do that in less then then 5 seconds, also every one running conditions is using 40% Condi duration food and alot of the engineers I know also throw 30 points into explosives getting a total 70% condition duration now sure the rune bonuses don’t work but the other bonuses sure do so now I’ve got even longer to troll around, just about the only thing stopping 25 confusion is the Condi clear spam everyone does the moment they see confusion stack up.

So you making accusations toward a specific server now. Brilliant argument to reenforce my comment about someone losing a fight and blaming a rune set that your very likely falsely assuming they are using. Your taking it to a new level that your server is losing to another so you stating the entire other server must be using them.

ukuni.8745:

on another note, mind telling me why so many Jq roamers (specially engineers) use perplexity since ya know it’s not overpowered.

If your losing so many fights that you are making assumed accusations that an entire server is using these runes simply because they are beating you in most fights, perhaps it is more likely that "so many Jq roamers (specially engineers) " are simply better then you in 1v1.

Renny.6571:

What if I told you anet doesn’t decide what they change about their game based on the number of pages a thread has. http://whinybaby.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/mind-blown.jpg

You missed his point.

Ravezaar.4951:

This is quite simple really guys, its a Thread with “7” pages about runes, has that EVER happened Before ?, NO

That in itself should be an indication wether or not the Runes is indeed OP….

Just Saying

Irrelevant. The amount of pages on a thread about something is irrelevant if not backed up with worthy evidence to your arguments. By crying out that something is OP in a majority doesn’t really make any difference if you don’t give good enough reasons to why they are OP. And many people who can’t handle something they find hard to handle will often be the ones who start crying out OP first. It is similar to ducking your heads in the sand, hoping to make your problems vanish instead of trying to handle them.

I can understand that getting a lot of stacks of confusion can hurt, specially when it can be reapplied within short time, but I have seen bleed stacking exist and do quite a lot of damage as well as being able to be reapplied fast. Spamming burning for a long time does a lot of damage, and it doesn’t even wait for you to use a skill to take damage, it ticks by itself monstrously if the caster of the burning has good condition damage and a way to spam it all the time to increase the duration or reapply it if you remove it. Chilling can be a pain to meet often, specially if it is traited to occur every time you blind someone, and this can easily be reapplied in many ways, even by chilling with sigils.

There are many conditions that can be seen as OP if you are subjected to them quite often and can’t handle them very well as a certain class, burning is a monstrous condition to meet as any class, and being a condition built player, you do damage via conditions. This would nerf them even more if they are not allowed to perform these conditions in different ways. Confusion has always been an interesting condition to me, and it does deserve to be this powerful with perplexity. DPS spammers SHOULD deserve to be punished for spamming ruthlessly just to spike someone down, and this condition provides the caster some protection against these glass cannon spikers.

My two cents.

Tinoosh.5386:

Ravezaar.4951:

This is quite simple really guys, its a Thread with “7” pages about runes, has that EVER happened Before ?, NO

That in itself should be an indication wether or not the Runes is indeed OP….

Just Saying

Irrelevant. The amount of pages on a thread about something is irrelevant if not backed up with worthy evidence to your arguments. By crying out that something is OP in a majority doesn’t really make any difference if you don’t give good enough reasons to why they are OP. And many people who can’t handle something they find hard to handle will often be the ones who start crying out OP first. It is similar to ducking your heads in the sand, hoping to make your problems vanish instead of trying to handle them.

I can understand that getting a lot of stacks of confusion can hurt, specially when it can be reapplied within short time, but I have seen bleed stacking exist and do quite a lot of damage as well as being able to be reapplied fast. Spamming burning for a long time does a lot of damage, and it doesn’t even wait for you to use a skill to take damage, it ticks by itself monstrously if the caster of the burning has good condition damage and a way to spam it all the time to increase the duration or reapply it if you remove it. Chilling can be a pain to meet often, specially if it is traited to occur every time you blind someone, and this can easily be reapplied in many ways, even by chilling with sigils.

There are many conditions that can be seen as OP if you are subjected to them quite often and can’t handle them very well as a certain class, burning is a monstrous condition to meet as any class, and being a condition built player, you do damage via conditions. This would nerf them even more if they are not allowed to perform these conditions in different ways. Confusion has always been an interesting condition to me, and it does deserve to be this powerful with perplexity. DPS spammers SHOULD deserve to be punished for spamming ruthlessly just to spike someone down, and this condition provides the caster some protection against these glass cannon spikers.

My two cents.

but there is one MAJOR difference between all those conditions you mentioned and confusion…. if you have bleeds/burn etc,. on you, yes you take dmg but you don’t take more dmg by attacking enemy just because you have bleed on you

if you have confusion stacks, any attack you try to execute on target is basically a suicide…. cleanse you say? usually long CD while those confusions are reapplied pretty fast and you are stack between 2 choices: either run for your life or kill yourself while trying to hit target

25 stacks of confusions mean if my character sneezes it will die

Tinoosh.5386:

DPS spammers SHOULD deserve to be punished for spamming ruthlessly just to spike someone down, and this condition provides the caster some protection against these glass cannon spikers.

My two cents.

Players who do damage should be punished for doing damage? Everyone does damage. Confusion as originally implemented was a nice counter mechanic that briefly shut someone down from attacking. Confusion post-perplexity is a near permanent condition applied by players that choose to abuse the runes lack of cd.

there are a few problems with current meta:
1. Condition application far and away outpaces condition removal, even on the classes best at removal.
2. The most damaging conditions in the game have been made incredibly accessible (dhuumfire and perplexity).
3. Stuns available to warriors far and away outpace stun breaks, even on the classes best at stability / stun-breaking.
4. Warrior health regen without gearing for healing exceeds the health regen of classes that do gear for healing.

I could go on about the broken state of just about every class at the moment, but those are the biggies for wvw/pvp imbalace right now. Nerfing perplexity runes to a 20sec cd goes a long way towards fixing the first 2 issues and making the 3rd and 4th issues less severe (as mace warriors typically run either melandrus or perplexity).

Don’t go tot WvW tot sPvP
Problem solved!

Raven.9603:

Players who do damage should be punished for doing damage? Everyone does damage. Confusion as originally implemented was a nice counter mechanic that briefly shut someone down from attacking. Confusion post-perplexity is a near permanent condition applied by players that choose to abuse the runes lack of cd.

there are a few problems with current meta:
1. Condition application far and away outpaces condition removal, even on the classes best at removal.
2. The most damaging conditions in the game have been made incredibly accessible (dhuumfire and perplexity).
3. Stuns available to warriors far and away outpace stun breaks, even on the classes best at stability / stun-breaking.
4. Warrior health regen without gearing for healing exceeds the health regen of classes that do gear for healing.

I could go on about the broken state of just about every class at the moment, but those are the biggies for wvw/pvp imbalace right now. Nerfing perplexity runes to a 20sec cd goes a long way towards fixing the first 2 issues and making the 3rd and 4th issues less severe (as mace warriors typically run either melandrus or perplexity).

Pretty much all appears to be a warrior issue, not a rune issue.

As far as you claim that its a permanent condition now, you appear to be implying it wasn’t permanent before. I have to disagree, it was easily permanent before. I keep it up 100% of the time now and I do not use these runes at all.

Raven.9603:

Tinoosh.5386:

DPS spammers SHOULD deserve to be punished for spamming ruthlessly just to spike someone down, and this condition provides the caster some protection against these glass cannon spikers.

My two cents.

Players who do damage should be punished for doing damage? Everyone does damage. Confusion as originally implemented was a nice counter mechanic that briefly shut someone down from attacking. Confusion post-perplexity is a near permanent condition applied by players that choose to abuse the runes lack of cd.

there are a few problems with current meta:
1. Condition application far and away outpaces condition removal, even on the classes best at removal.
2. The most damaging conditions in the game have been made incredibly accessible (dhuumfire and perplexity).
3. Stuns available to warriors far and away outpace stun breaks, even on the classes best at stability / stun-breaking.
4. Warrior health regen without gearing for healing exceeds the health regen of classes that do gear for healing.

I could go on about the broken state of just about every class at the moment, but those are the biggies for wvw/pvp imbalace right now. Nerfing perplexity runes to a 20sec cd goes a long way towards fixing the first 2 issues and making the 3rd and 4th issues less severe (as mace warriors typically run either melandrus or perplexity).

1. Yes condition application outpaces removal just like direct damage outpaces dodging. Conditions can not only be completely removed they can also be dodged, converted, and completely negated(warrior). Why should one damage type be subject to all of these and not the other? You’re not complaining about not being able to negate 90% of a 10k backstab so why would you do expect the same for conditions?

Tinoosh.5386:

I can understand that getting a lot of stacks of confusion can hurt, specially when it can be reapplied within short time, but I have seen bleed stacking exist and do quite a lot of damage as well as being able to be reapplied fast. Spamming burning for a long time does a lot of damage, and it doesn’t even wait for you to use a skill to take damage, it ticks by itself monstrously if the caster of the burning has good condition damage and a way to spam it all the time to increase the duration or reapply it if you remove it. Chilling can be a pain to meet often, specially if it is traited to occur every time you blind someone, and this can easily be reapplied in many ways, even by chilling with sigils.

The thing about these runes is they have no cool down so they are limited only by a players number of interrupts which in some builds is ridiculously high. Also interrupts are already powerful these runes make already potent skills even more so. Lastly the speed at which these can be applied by many builds greatly outstrips many other classes ability to strip them. While I agree confusion itself isn’t a problem getting interrupted 5 times and landing on 25 stacks of confusion is devastating. Even the act of purging that many stacks can kill a player. Once the player stops using skills to mitigate the damage, they are essentially toast.

I cannot think of another offensively powerful runeset that works on so many defensive based skills. Traditionally going bunker meant giving up DPS. These runes turn that on its ear.

Some here seem to miss the point. Reading some posts you can get the impression that the confusion is the only problem. The problem is bigger.

The pressure from conditions stacking on you is already hard, but the additional confusion, that can be reaplied easily, is just too much. Don’t get me wrong, you can kill perplexety engineers, but the required level of skill and awarness on the others side is way more demanding than to the perplexety user. They are with no doubt not in line with all other rune sets (except torment) and make it too easy for condition builds with itnerrupts.

Pure confusion builds, like warriors with interrupts to stack (mostly only) confusion, is way easier to beat and no big deal. The combined load of condition with the additional confusion (mostly done by engeniers) is the real problem.

An internal CD on the 6th rune and a remove of the 6/6 bugged condition duration would solve the problem and bring those runes in line with all the others.

coglin.1867:

ukuni.8745:

engineers only need 2 interrupts and some skills to get 25, pull at the right time, prybar concussion bomb swap to p/s spam shield till it works and static shot boom 25 stacks in less then 10 seconds, hell if your a good player you can do that in less then then 5 seconds, also every one running conditions is using 40% Condi duration food and alot of the engineers I know also throw 30 points into explosives getting a total 70% condition duration now sure the rune bonuses don’t work but the other bonuses sure do so now I’ve got even longer to troll around, just about the only thing stopping 25 confusion is the Condi clear spam everyone does the moment they see confusion stack up.

So you making accusations toward a specific server now. Brilliant argument to reenforce my comment about someone losing a fight and blaming a rune set that your very likely falsely assuming they are using. Your taking it to a new level that your server is losing to another so you stating the entire other server must be using them.

ukuni.8745:

on another note, mind telling me why so many Jq roamers (specially engineers) use perplexity since ya know it’s not overpowered.

If your losing so many fights that you are making assumed accusations that an entire server is using these runes simply because they are beating you in most fights, perhaps it is more likely that "so many Jq roamers (specially engineers) " are simply better then you in 1v1.

I don’t remember saying I was losing, I was asking why so many people on your server use perplexity(I’ve never ever seen perplexity that much before), I havnt actually lost to a perplexity user on Jq yet, so please don’t make accusations based on what you assume.

if anything I was cracking a joke at you and your servers average roamers for being so heavily reliant on perplexity and still not doing it right

Distaste.4801:

1. Yes condition application outpaces removal just like direct damage outpaces dodging. Conditions can not only be completely removed they can also be dodged, converted, and completely negated(warrior). Why should one damage type be subject to all of these and not the other? You’re not complaining about not being able to negate 90% of a 10k backstab so why would you do expect the same for conditions?

you misunderstand, or perhaps it wasnt as clear as i meant it to be: obviously condition application must outstrip removal on the lowest level. however, application of high levels of condition must not outstrip removal on the high level. there are some exceptions, like if some clown doesnt have much/any removal, obviously they are taking a risk, but in the current state the best classes at removal taking every option for removal cannot clear perplexity because it doesnt have a cd.

you can fight with 10 bleeds on you, or burning, or maybe 3-4 stacks of confusion. you can NOT fight someone with 8+ stacks of confusion on you, or 25 stacks of bleed, period. you have to clear it. if they can maintain 8+ confusion stacks despite all your condi removal the game is over.

your comparison to direct damage is flawed because the most severe damage in GW2 is melee, which can be countered with chill/cripple/distance /immobilize/weakness/toughness, though uptime on these is limited, so you cannot fully negate direct damage either.

coglin.1867:

Pretty much all appears to be a warrior issue, not a rune issue.

As far as you claim that its a permanent condition now, you appear to be implying it wasn’t permanent before. I have to disagree, it was easily permanent before. I keep it up 100% of the time now and I do not use these runes at all.

No, its not “just” a warrior issue. There are rogues that can spam 25 stacks with head shot easily. Engineers and mesmers both have numerous interrupts, which when combined with their already innately high confusion uptime makes these runes far over the top. Same can be said for necros interrupts and innately high condition application, which when combined with these runes…

3 stacks of confusion up 100% of the time isnt much different than burning. 8+ stacks on the other hand, that hurts too bad to attack back through, and if classes are achieving 100% uptime of high confusion stacks despite condition clears that is a huge problem. if there is too much confusion application to counter then there isnt counter play.

Raven.9603:

8+ stacks on the other hand, that hurts too bad to attack back through, and if classes are achieving 100% uptime of high confusion stacks despite condition clears that is a huge problem. if there is too much confusion application to counter then there isnt counter play.

And you stick it on a dire/apothecary bunker and you’re back to the old days of ‘oh wait, that thing hurts more to attack than i can actually do with that hit’ from pre-nerf retal

ukuni.8745:

I don’t remember saying I was losing, I was asking why so many people on your server use perplexity(I’ve never ever seen perplexity that much before), I havnt actually lost to a perplexity user on Jq yet, so please don’t make accusations based on what you assume.

Right. Just like every player on my server uses the exact same rune set, you didn’t lose. So every player uses them and you never lost to one, your stating you have never losr to a JQ player. Hmm, somebody is not very honest.

Raven.9603:

No, its not “just” a warrior issue.

Yes it is, at least the poster I very specifically quoted. Scroll up and look at the post I quoted, every reference he made was to a warrior. Your replying to my post outside of the proper context.

Fix the duration bug and put kitten cool down on #6. Plenty of time to remove conditions.

Runes should not be this powerful. If a memser wants to build their build fully into confusion and can get 25 stacks then good for them.. but there shouldnt be a rune which lets nearly any class get that, its just really very strange game design.

Giving this a bump in the hopes of the devs finally doing something about it. These runes have been ruining solo/small scale fights for months now with absolutely nothing from anet. I don’t know if it’s laziness, apathy, incompetence or what, but this is rather silly that this has not been fixed.

coglin.1867:

Raven.9603:

No, its not “just” a warrior issue.

Yes it is, at least the poster I very specifically quoted. Scroll up and look at the post I quoted, every reference he made was to a warrior. Your replying to my post outside of the proper context.

I am not replying outside of context because I am the poster you very specifically quoted the first time. Yes, perplexity runes are a warrior issue in that warriors have broken health regen and too short of a cd on Skullcrack, combine that with access to a bunch of confusion stacks every Skullcrack (7.5s with traits?) and its redonkulous.

But…. its not “just” a warrior issue. There are rogues that can spam 25 stacks with head shot easily. Engineers and mesmers both have numerous interrupts, which when combined with their already innately high confusion uptime makes these runes far over the top. Same can be said for necros interrupts and innately high condition application, which when combined with these runes…
3 stacks of confusion up 100% of the time isnt much different than burning. 8+ stacks on the other hand, that hurts too bad to attack back through, and if classes are achieving 100% uptime of high confusion stacks despite condition clears that is a huge problem. if there is too much confusion application to counter then there isnt counter play.

still nothing done, not even word on it….

another suggestion: maybe change 6th bonues to: gives you extra healing for each confusion stack on target (x sec CD)

Now that’s funny. I keep meeting roaming groups of 3-4 thieves using these runes during WvW low time.

Its pretty silly from both sides really.
Whilst these runes probably does deserve a nerf for pvp’s sakes due to certainly classes’s certain abilities to be able to abuse it when it doesn’t have a cool down. But its equally silly to call for the confusion on interrupt feature to have more than 10 cooldown. If you can’t handle 5 stacks of confusion every 10 seconds it is probably time for you to rethink your build. After this, if you want to argue that certain classes can still stack alot of confusion, then perhaps it is those classes thats op, not the runes themselves. So nerf those classes and not the runes.

These runes are the best thing that could happen for condition builds in PVE. It gave them an extra source of damage that is scaleable to multiple enemies (aoe interrupts). If they nerf it too much some condition builds for some classes become really dull again.

Imo, if anet is to implement a nerf, at most it should be 10s cooldown PER TARGET and they should fix the confusion durations on these runes. This would be the perfect balance for these runes for both pve and pvp imo.

How long is the internal CD on the 6th rune effect? Seems strong if the internal CD was too low. If not the runes seem okay. Should be at least 30 seconds internal cd(3 times the duration like with skill 4 where it already is mentioned).

Edit: Now look at the list: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune
Most runes have stuff that has a much longer CD than duration(so you can’t get it permanently). Makes totally sense to have a longer CD.

There also is pretty useless stuff like "When you use a healing skill nearby foes are burned for 3 seconds. (cooldown: 10s) " I mean heal lol. Heals itself have longer CD already… then only 3 seconds and internal CD of 10s.

It’s totally okay if 6th effect on this rune has longer CD – even if it seems useless to you then. Just swap 6th for another rune then like a lot of people do(they are lots of builds with mixed runes especially guardian boon duration that uses major, superior of different runes to max boon duration).