Guild Wars 2

lunyboy.8672:

Zumy.6318:

I feel the same way as you do.

E.g. they are fine with P/D on thief as you have to time your traited daze on steal or your venom to interrupt. (CDs are 45 and 20 seconds.)
On P/P | D/P | S/P on the other thand…

S/p is insane. Seriously.

Fought one of these guys on my engineer and died a lot.

You’re an Engineer. Don’t get to comfy with a specific set of traits or utility skills, make adjustments based on what you’re up against. The only thing semi static is your trait spread, everything else you can tailor to murder these stealth, blind, daze spamming unskilled scrubs.

You don’t need broken perplexity runes to do it, just bring Utility Goggles, use runes of Lyssa, and Supply Drop these scrubs, 95% of which run builds like they’ve never heard of a stun break. Seriously there’s so many of these unskilled class mechanic abusers that given enough time any Engineer can learn to hard counter the class in 95% of fights (4% are just that good, and 1% can pull off magical unicorn 20k+ backstabs). Inevitability of any tactic that gets overused is people facing it become experienced in fighting it, ultimately making the experienced player immune to the tactic. Advantage of an Engineer is we’re jacks of all trades and masters of absolutely unexpected tactics…some engineers don’t even know what to expect themselves until they activate their skills.

Engineers are like a box of chocolates, you never know which one contains something your fiercely allergic to. S/P, D/P, P/P thieves however all play the same hand. With incoming buffs to Toss Elixir B and Toss Elixir S, expect a whole lot more QQ on Engineers than just for perplexity abusers.

I’ve got over 1,800 hours on my Engi and have been running the Perplexity Runes for about a month now. My post above was something of a troll. I too realize that as the Runes stand right now, they play perfectly to my Engi build (P/S, Bombs, Took Kit, EG) and are OP. If they get nerfed, I’ll manage to live and continue to win engagements as I’ve been doing since day-one.

An interesting dilemma is that for Engineers, almost all of our Interupts do little – and I do mean LITTLE- damage. The perplexity makes the Shield an actual Offensive weapon – whereas it used to be purely Defensive, and with a long cool down to boot. Static Shot, Bomb #3, Prybar – all of these are laughably weak when compared to other damage done by other professions weapons – and yet they occupy a significant number or slots.

just bring them back in line with other runes, is all.
For example, Runes of the Noble seem a near equivalent: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Noble

• +28 Condition Damage
• +20% Might duration
• +55 Condition Damage
• +20% Might duration
• +100 Condition Damage
• When you use a healing skill, gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds. (Cooldown: 10s)

To transpose similar effects onto Perplexity, we’d get something like:

• +28 Condition Damage
• +20% Confusion duration
• +55 Condition Damage
• +20% Confusion duration
• +100 Condition Damage
• Cause 3 stacks of of Confusion for 10 seconds when interrupted (Cooldown: 10s)

They’ll probably only be good for Mesmers then, but I think that’s what they were intended for in the first place.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

scootshoot.6583:

bob.8632:

Just another proof positive, that if you whine enough ANET will nerf it.
.

Youtube videos never help in this matter… Like that dumb player sharing a link of him fighting with fireworks in his hand thinking it’s funny,…. enjoy your future nerf pal.

This is no laughing matter, sir.

Even though I use them, I am OUTRAGED that fireworks somehow made it past the balancing team and into live gameplay. Fireworks are single-handedly powerful enough to be its own build regardless of profession and can easily lock down just about any other build in the game, besides another fireworks build, of course. I highly suggest you get your own fireworks and try them out so you can see for yourself how broken they really are.

#NerfFireworks2013 >:/

So that’s the real reason they banned the Dragon Festival fireworks from WvW!

I realy got to love people reactions!

A couple of months ago, people would just spit with disgrace at the Warrior’s Distracting Strike saying it was a garbage trait, even when it got improved. Now we get a Rune wich does exactly the same to a bit greater extend and people are crying out loud for a nerf.

- Does it realy needs a nerf? Yes, because the confusion effect last way to long compared to available traits and skills from other professions. Runes should remain inferior to profession mechanics, not otherwise.
- Does it need an internal cooldown? No, because it only works on interupts skills wich have usualy long cooldowns and because it is already hard countered by stability.
- Should the duration stay greater compared to other confusion effects? Yes, because your ennemies do not trigger confusion when they are stuned or knocked down/away.

So my sugestion would be to reduce both duration and intensity from the 6th bonus on the rune.

Right now,
Rune of perplexity : 5*Confusion during 10sec (+30%) / no internal CD
Distracting Strike : 4*Confusion during 8sec / no internal CD

After some rebalancing,
Rune of Perplexity : 3*Confusion during 8sec (+30%) / no internal CD
Distracting Strike : 4*Confusion during 8sec / no internal CD

Adding an internal cooldown isn’t smart, because (unless you play an offhand pistol thief) condition weapons usualy lack decent amount of stuns/knocks. The other weapons with greater acces to those effects are mostly power weapons meaning you will either deal bad condition damage or sacrifice direct damage instead to make confusion more effective.

The only remaining issue comes with the Thief profession, because they can build up for initiative regen and keep using their headshot. If you already consider the fact Dagger&Pisol, Sword&Pistol and Pistol&Pistol are a lot more focused around power build rather than condition, you can greatly reduce its effectiveness by lowering both intensity and duration. Let the Rune set keep its no internal CD, they already gave up a lot of damage by going around that kind of build.

Just my 2cents!

Ambrecombe.4398:

I realy got to love people reactions!

A couple of months ago, people would just spit with disgrace at the Warrior’s Distracting Strike saying it was a garbage trait, even when it got improved. Now we get a Rune wich does exactly the same to a bit greater extend and people are crying out loud for a nerf.

- Does it realy needs a nerf? Yes, because the confusion effect last way to long compared to available traits and skills from other professions. Runes should remain inferior to profession mechanics, not otherwise.
- Does it need an internal cooldown? No, because it only works on interupts skills wich have usualy long cooldowns and because it is already hard countered by stability.
- Should the duration stay greater compared to other confusion effects? Yes, because your ennemies do not trigger confusion when they are stuned or knocked down/away.

So my sugestion would be to reduce both duration and intensity from the 6th bonus on the rune.

Right now,
Rune of perplexity : 5*Confusion during 10sec (+30%) / no internal CD
Distracting Strike : 4*Confusion during 8sec / no internal CD

After some rebalancing,
Rune of Perplexity : 3*Confusion during 8sec (+30%) / no internal CD
Distracting Strike : 4*Confusion during 8sec / no internal CD

Adding an internal cooldown isn’t smart, because (unless you play an offhand pistol thief) condition weapons usualy lack decent amount of stuns/knocks. The other weapons with greater acces to those effects are mostly power weapons meaning you will either deal bad condition damage or sacrifice direct damage instead to make confusion more effective.

The only remaining issue comes with the Thief profession, because they can build up for initiative regen and keep using their headshot. If you already consider the fact Dagger&Pisol, Sword&Pistol and Pistol&Pistol are a lot more focused around power build rather than condition, you can greatly reduce its effectiveness by lowering both intensity and duration. Let the Rune set keep its no internal CD, they already gave up a lot of damage by going around that kind of build.

Just my 2cents!

SkullCrack, Pommel Bash, Shield Bash, EarthShaker, Staggering Blow, Backbreaker, Kick, Stomp, Bulls Charge, Fall Trait.

Just to give you an idea how many interrupt skills a warrior can have AT ONE TIME. Thats 10 with 1 being situational(fall trait). It’s easily feasible to always have an interrupt available in this setup. So yes I do think an internal CD is needed for the runes. Also your suggestion still allows a warrior to stack 17 stacks of confusion with only 2 interrupts, that’s still beyond ridiculous.

I don’t know a lot about Engi skills but from my friends I gather they can run about 5 interrupts at once along with having access to several skills that apply confusion themselves.

I do agree that the Runes need some IC, however, I’m worried about one thing, AoE interrupts. Let’s say, as a mesmer, I use Imbued Diversion, shatter one clone, and said clone hits 5 people. This was one interrupt source, but it hit 5 people. It should be perfectly fine for all of those people to get confusion if they got interrupted, because it was one source. If an IC is introduced haphazardly, this diversion example will only cause confusion to one person, because it might register only 1 interrupt and go immediately to cooldown, not counting the other 4, even though it was from the same source. I suggest there be a grace period of 1~3 seconds before the runes go on cooldown after the first interrupt. This will allow for all the interrupts from one source to be registered. The maximum way I see this could be exploited is by shattering 3 clones in a zerg and hitting 15 people. Assuming all those people get interrupted (pretty much impossible) they would all get 5 stacks of confusion, and then the runes would go on CD. This needs to be possible, regardless of whatever way they nerf the runes due to the fact that it is really hard to do, and requires a Grandmaster trait (or other long cooldown AoE interrupting skill) to achieve.

It is true that Anet has been pushing interrupts a lot, so taking that off of the Runes is a bad idea, but they should be cautious in the way they introduce the IC.

I just really wish Anet would turn the interrupt bonus into a Grandmaster Mesmer interrupt trait to replace the rather lacklustre Chaotic Interruption. It would still need some limitations though, like perhaps only working when the interrupt is caused through a daze or something. I think an ICD might cause some issues for AoE interrupt skills so I would avoid that. As for the rune set itself, just put the chance to proc confusion on crit as the number 6 bonus. Still makes for a really good runeset.

Im guessing from this post that they are not going to change them.

•Runes/Sigils are also something the balance team wants to improve. We’d like to see cooler effects on some of the sets, so we’ll be working towards that. They also lead to a lot of build diversity, so we want more sets to be stronger so that it gives you guys more options in your builds.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/October-15th-balance-skills-updates-preview

These runes alone have “created builds” at least for wvw.

dank.3680:

SkullCrack, Pommel Bash, Shield Bash, EarthShaker, Staggering Blow, Backbreaker, Kick, Stomp, Bulls Charge, Fall Trait.

Just to give you an idea how many interrupt skills a warrior can have AT ONE TIME. Thats 10 with 1 being situational(fall trait). It’s easily feasible to always have an interrupt available in this setup. So yes I do think an internal CD is needed for the runes. Also your suggestion still allows a warrior to stack 17 stacks of confusion with only 2 interrupts, that’s still beyond ridiculous.

That logic is flawed, you are talking about taking a Mace&Shield with physical utilities wich is a power build. It means you have very low condition damage unless you sacrifice a more important stat and end up with less direct damage or defense for doing so.

Also the idea of chain stunning your ennemy to max out confusion isn’t smart either because an incapacitated ennemy can’t trigger confusion damage if he is unable to attack you. That’s why lowering the duration and intensity is the best you can do to nerf the Rune because you keep flexibility with your controls but it also prevents you from chain stunning the ennemy while still keeping a way to forgiving uptime on your remaining confusion stacks.

Adding an internal cooldown also breaks its potential with AoE, just look what happend to the Warrior leg specialist trait when they added an internal CD because of the Sword/Mh revamp. Greatsword, Hammer and Rifle (traited) builds took a very big hit and the trait became worthless. Even for a sword build it is counter productive to use that trait.

I’m not saying my solution is perfect, sinds it will remain powerfull to both Warriors and Thiefs, but adding an internal cooldown is just a good way to make Rune of Perplexity the next Leg Specialist candidate.

Soon.5240:

Static Shot, Bomb #3, Prybar – all of these are laughably weak when compared to other damage done by other professions weapons – and yet they occupy a significant number or slots.

Prybar is not laughably weak.

Not even close.

In fact, isn’t it just about our hardest hitting ability raw damage wise?

Kurieg.4158:

Soon.5240:

Static Shot, Bomb #3, Prybar – all of these are laughably weak when compared to other damage done by other professions weapons – and yet they occupy a significant number or slots.

Prybar is not laughably weak.

Not even close.

In fact, isn’t it just about our hardest hitting ability raw damage wise?

Prybar can pack a whallop for an Engi… but compared to damage of other professions, it’s not that strong. It should or should not be included in my list, I’ll give you that.

The point of my post is that a signficant number of Engi’s Interrupts are purely defensive and do very little base damage. Upping the confusion damage for Engi Interuppts is not that same as upping the confusion damage of other professions. Plus, if you see an Engi arming his shield or setting his magnet, all you need to do is dodge to avoid the Interrupt and now the Engi has a long CD on a damage slot.

Ambrecombe.4398:

dank.3680:

SkullCrack, Pommel Bash, Shield Bash, EarthShaker, Staggering Blow, Backbreaker, Kick, Stomp, Bulls Charge, Fall Trait.

Just to give you an idea how many interrupt skills a warrior can have AT ONE TIME. Thats 10 with 1 being situational(fall trait). It’s easily feasible to always have an interrupt available in this setup. So yes I do think an internal CD is needed for the runes. Also your suggestion still allows a warrior to stack 17 stacks of confusion with only 2 interrupts, that’s still beyond ridiculous.

That logic is flawed, you are talking about taking a Mace&Shield with physical utilities wich is a power build. It means you have very low condition damage unless you sacrifice a more important stat and end up with less direct damage or defense for doing so.

Also the idea of chain stunning your ennemy to max out confusion isn’t smart either because an incapacitated ennemy can’t trigger confusion damage if he is unable to attack you. That’s why lowering the duration and intensity is the best you can do to nerf the Rune because you keep flexibility with your controls but it also prevents you from chain stunning the ennemy while still keeping a way to forgiving uptime on your remaining confusion stacks.

Adding an internal cooldown also breaks its potential with AoE, just look what happend to the Warrior leg specialist trait when they added an internal CD because of the Sword/Mh revamp. Greatsword, Hammer and Rifle (traited) builds took a very big hit and the trait became worthless. Even for a sword build it is counter productive to use that trait.

I’m not saying my solution is perfect, sinds it will remain powerfull to both Warriors and Thiefs, but adding an internal cooldown is just a good way to make Rune of Perplexity the next Leg Specialist candidate.

Your logic is flawed thinking of 1v1 only. If I’m in a group of 5 putting oodles of confusion on everyone who cares if I’m not doing much other damage. It was just an example anyways to show how many interrupts you can have at one time to point out the need for an icd.

Anyways, lets look at a REAL condition warrior build that I ran and was completely ridiculous.

With Mace/Sword Sword/Shield and bleeds that ticked 135 BEFORE might. I had btw 28k hp, 3000 armor and still ran with Cleansing Ire, this is with no Ascended btw only exotics. I still had 6 interrupts (including fall trait – which btw you would be surprised how much use you can get out of in normal terrain), could have been 7 but I ran one defensive utility. Torment that ticked very high along with bleeds ticking 135+ and the ability to stack 21 confusion with 2 interrupts(very easy to do).. All while still being very defensive with 3 blocks and decent condi removal through cleansing ire. This is also while having spam immobiles through leg specialits + flurry.

The build itself was already over the top, these runes with no ICD made it utterly ridiculous.

Obscure One.4357:

lunyboy.8672:

Zumy.6318:

I feel the same way as you do.

E.g. they are fine with P/D on thief as you have to time your traited daze on steal or your venom to interrupt. (CDs are 45 and 20 seconds.)
On P/P | D/P | S/P on the other thand…

S/p is insane. Seriously.

Fought one of these guys on my engineer and died a lot.

You’re an Engineer. Don’t get to comfy with a specific set of traits or utility skills, make adjustments based on what you’re up against. The only thing semi static is your trait spread, everything else you can tailor to murder these stealth, blind, daze spamming unskilled scrubs.

You don’t need broken perplexity runes to do it, just bring Utility Goggles, use runes of Lyssa, and Supply Drop these scrubs, 95% of which run builds like they’ve never heard of a stun break. Seriously there’s so many of these unskilled class mechanic abusers that given enough time any Engineer can learn to hard counter the class in 95% of fights (4% are just that good, and 1% can pull off magical unicorn 20k+ backstabs). Inevitability of any tactic that gets overused is people facing it become experienced in fighting it, ultimately making the experienced player immune to the tactic. Advantage of an Engineer is we’re jacks of all trades and masters of absolutely unexpected tactics…some engineers don’t even know what to expect themselves until they activate their skills.

Engineers are like a box of chocolates, you never know which one contains something your fiercely allergic to. S/P, D/P, P/P thieves however all play the same hand. With incoming buffs to Toss Elixir B and Toss Elixir S, expect a whole lot more QQ on Engineers than just for perplexity abusers.

I kill 99% of thieves for breakfast, but for some reason, this guy was just incredible. I am pretty sure he was running some type of rabid build, more condition cleanse than I have ever seen in my life and maybe some healing power? I have no idea, all I know was, he could spam head shot 5 times in a row, stealth, mug me for another interrupt and then pistol whip me…

And never was at less than 50% health. Just insane.

dank.3680:

Your logic is flawed thinking of 1v1 only. If I’m in a group of 5 putting oodles of confusion on everyone who cares if I’m not doing much other damage. It was just an example anyways to show how many interrupts you can have at one time to point out the need for an icd.

This is where you are wrong, I always think in every possible perspective I can see.
You still use a bad exemple and try to find a sorry excuse to say I’m wrong because I should not take into consideration the things you say.

Speaking of your exemple, we are talking about something close to 65 dmg per confusion stacks, in Pvp without any condition gear, while with a condition gear you should be around 172 dmg a stack. That’s almost 1/3 of its base power, so your 25stacks of confusion are more like 9 stacks of confusion from a real condition build perspective and anyone playing a condition build relying on confusion is going to be mildly annoyed because anyone using that build is going to leave no room for real condition damage builds.

Also any team fight has condi removal flying around like it is Christmas, so that kind of build is going to be shutdown whenever you will have a guardian applying stability to your team or whenever you someone is going to put a field that clears condition.

dank.3680:

Anyways, lets look at a REAL condition warrior build that I ran and was completely ridiculous.

With Mace/Sword Sword/Shield and bleeds that ticked 135 BEFORE might. I had btw 28k hp, 3000 armor and still ran with Cleansing Ire, this is with no Ascended btw only exotics. I still had 6 interrupts (including fall trait – which btw you would be surprised how much use you can get out of in normal terrain), could have been 7 but I ran one defensive utility. Torment that ticked very high along with bleeds ticking 135+ and the ability to stack 21 confusion with 2 interrupts(very easy to do).. All while still being very defensive with 3 blocks and decent condi removal through cleansing ire. This is also while having spam immobiles through leg specialits + flurry.

You can’t be serious calling this a “real condition warrior build”, Mace&Sword is one of the worst combination you can come with and you don’t have Fast Hand meaning you get stucked for 10sec with a subpar combination with no mobiliy whenever you would like to apply Torment or chain Stun your foe for the use of distracting strike + rune of perplexity. If you run 28K health and 3K armor it means you have almost 0 critical chance so you get almost no benefits from precise strike.

It is just a troll build, you get a lot of reflects and confusion but whenever someone sees trough your little game and take any form of condi removal, blind or stability you are left with subpar damage and no way to beat your opponent.

dank.3680:

The build itself was already over the top, these runes with no ICD made it utterly ridiculous.

I don’t think so, this build is probably one of the worst anyone could create, you will see a lot more Sw/Sw + longbow combos and Mace/Shield + Hammer running around and be a lot more effective.

Ambrecombe.4398:

You can’t be serious calling this a “real condition warrior build”, Mace&Sword is one of the worst combination you can come with

I don’t think so, this build is probably one of the worst anyone could create, you will see a lot more Sw/Sw + longbow combos and Mace/Shield + Hammer running around and be a lot more effective.

Ss /longbow will end up killing themselves.Nothing to see here

I have run into people using perplexity runes on every class in the game. Seriously anet. Stop being so kittening lazy, do your jobs, and nerf these runes.

Ran across some random guy on the street the other day and we started talking about GW2 (happens a lot, kind of strange). I asked him what class he plays and he replied, “I play a perplexity.”

Stopped roaming with them on my Mesmer with those runes. I am happy about this nerf. And I will probably use them after they are fixed. Confusion duration is the one thing that really sucks as a Mesmer. That was the main reason why I wanted them in the first place.

Josh Davis.6015:

Perplexity Runes are definitely on our radar. I talked with our designers about this and you can expect some changes to this rune-set in the near future. I don’t have specific details on what changes we’ll be making, but I figured I’d let you guys know that we are looking at it.

Thanks guys!

They dont need to be changed. Just removed from the game.

these runes are a joke and the players that use them should be embarrassed and ashamed.

Giving this a bump in the hope that the dev who made these runes gets fired. Sadly, anet, being incompetent, rewards incompetence. Willing to bet the geniuses in charge are thinking LOL WOW LOOK HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE RUNNING PERPLEXITY RUNES GOOD JOB BRO EVERYONE LOVES IT.

These seriously need a buff.

“Our data shows that nobody runs them in sPvP so they must be balanced!”

EFWinters.5421:

“Our data shows that nobody runs them in sPvP so they must be balanced!”

Makes sense to me.

lunyboy.8672:

Obscure One.4357:

lunyboy.8672:

Zumy.6318:

I feel the same way as you do.

E.g. they are fine with P/D on thief as you have to time your traited daze on steal or your venom to interrupt. (CDs are 45 and 20 seconds.)
On P/P | D/P | S/P on the other thand…

S/p is insane. Seriously.

Fought one of these guys on my engineer and died a lot.

You’re an Engineer. Don’t get to comfy with a specific set of traits or utility skills, make adjustments based on what you’re up against. The only thing semi static is your trait spread, everything else you can tailor to murder these stealth, blind, daze spamming unskilled scrubs.

You don’t need broken perplexity runes to do it, just bring Utility Goggles, use runes of Lyssa, and Supply Drop these scrubs, 95% of which run builds like they’ve never heard of a stun break. Seriously there’s so many of these unskilled class mechanic abusers that given enough time any Engineer can learn to hard counter the class in 95% of fights (4% are just that good, and 1% can pull off magical unicorn 20k+ backstabs). Inevitability of any tactic that gets overused is people facing it become experienced in fighting it, ultimately making the experienced player immune to the tactic. Advantage of an Engineer is we’re jacks of all trades and masters of absolutely unexpected tactics…some engineers don’t even know what to expect themselves until they activate their skills.

Engineers are like a box of chocolates, you never know which one contains something your fiercely allergic to. S/P, D/P, P/P thieves however all play the same hand. With incoming buffs to Toss Elixir B and Toss Elixir S, expect a whole lot more QQ on Engineers than just for perplexity abusers.

I kill 99% of thieves for breakfast, but for some reason, this guy was just incredible. I am pretty sure he was running some type of rabid build, more condition cleanse than I have ever seen in my life and maybe some healing power? I have no idea, all I know was, he could spam head shot 5 times in a row, stealth, mug me for another interrupt and then pistol whip me…

And never was at less than 50% health. Just insane.

I’ve seen these guys before. It’s very technical to pull off the daze/stun chain to lock the target down long enough to put them down. It’s only viable against classes with extremely limited access to stability such as Engineers, Rangers, Elementalists, Necromancers, and of course other Thieves. But then again some use larcenous strike to make it work on Warriors with fewer buffs between them and stealing the stability. In such a circumstance you either run or you just get up and go get something to eat or drink or just stretch your legs while they’re busy converting you into loot.

You encounter them very rarely but when you do the best adivce is to run. They’re members of the 4% of players that’re just that good, and there’s nothing you can do but lose to a class that is mechanically superior in a single target scenario driven by a player that is heavily experienced with the intricacies of the games mechanics. I’ve beaten one such player on a few occasions..but there were 3 – 5 of us each time. Magnet Pulling into my allies and dropping a Supply Crate on their head was the key to winning, but I never could have pulled it off alone.

Alacrity.4312:

just bring them back in line with other runes, is all.
For example, Runes of the Noble seem a near equivalent: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Noble

• +28 Condition Damage
• +20% Might duration
• +55 Condition Damage
• +20% Might duration
• +100 Condition Damage
• When you use a healing skill, gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds. (Cooldown: 10s)

To transpose similar effects onto Perplexity, we’d get something like:

• +28 Condition Damage
• +20% Confusion duration
• +55 Condition Damage
• +20% Confusion duration
• +100 Condition Damage
• Cause 3 stacks of of Confusion for 10 seconds when interrupted (Cooldown: 10s)

They’ll probably only be good for Mesmers then, but I think that’s what they were intended for in the first place.

Rather look at the other confusion abilities.

Other abilities that can stack as much as 5xConfusion come with a cooldown that is 3x their base duration.
So a 5sec, 5 stack confusion is on a 15sec cooldown ability. I dont see why a passive rune should be better then that.

If they are going to maintain the 10sec duration it should get a cooldown of 30seconds. And of 20 and less means they can perma-confusion you. Thats better then player abilities.

Zumy.6318:

I feel the same way as you do.

E.g. they are fine with P/D on thief as you have to time your traited daze on steal or your venom to interrupt. (CDs are 45 and 20 seconds.)
On P/P | D/P | S/P on the other thand…

I want to take this back.
I tested it for P/D yesterday. Alone the passive trigger dealt around 600 per action. With an interrupt on steal on 20s ICD i was able to mantain 8 stacks for most of the time, ticking for ~1800 per action.
This is plain wrong and just adding an ICD is not enogh.

Passive triggers of a condition that applie >600dps on skill use is wrong already but 5 on interrupt is overkill.

I had the “pleasure” running into more and more plexers every day in wvw, this rune is gamebreaking – plain and simple.

I really hope Anet fixes this in the patch today – its already a shame for their balance team letting it untouched for weeks.

so i heard the change is 10 sec ICD on setbonus 6.

compare some runes:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune#Condition_Damage

notice something?

Jon: “Devon, what does the playerbase say about our incompetence level?”
Devon: “It’s over NINE THOUSAAAAAAND!!!”
Jon: “What, nine thousand??”

It’s incredible that this is the biggest issue in the WvW forums right now.

Steelo.4597:

so i heard the change is 10 sec ICD on setbonus 6.

compare some runes:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune#Condition_Damage

notice something?

Yes, they’re super OP compared to other runes.

Where did you hear about the change?

Omne.4603:

It’s incredible that this is the biggest issue in the WvW forums right now.

i think we’ve just given up on the big issues and try to influence stuff that they actually can do something about. took 2 months of whining untill they touched these runes with the nerf-feather. but worth it nonetheless.

Noss: GH shoutbox :P

If it’s a 10sec ICD then they will still be the best rune set for nigh all condition builds.

There are some really laughable 6 rune bonuses with 90 sec ICD… 10 sec ICD on these is swing in the air with the nerfbat (if it even was intended to bring perplexity to the other runeset’s level). A higher ICD and/or a lower stack of confusion applied on interrupt is what is needed imo.

^ well your opinion is wrong. @Noir.9218

For the future development of this game, it is worth noting that runes of perplexity opened up different build options and play styles.

While they were overpowered against noobs and average players, it has shown us that anet can create runes that promote build diversity, and even give unused traits and weapons new life.

Nobody runs p/p thieves, yet I was, and I won almost every 1v1(couldn’t beat perplex mes, op :p), and was winning 1v2 and 1v3’s more often than not. I defecated all over d/p thieves, and that’s exactly the direction the game needs to go in, promoting build diversity, especially ones that can counter the meta, without shifting the meta.

So look into updating the old rune sets somewhere along this level, that gives players more options to create different builds. Runes currently complement a build, of which there aren’t many (decent ones), instead of help create builds.

Even with a 10 sec ICD I don’t see this stopping me from destroying d/p thieves and a lot of other cheesy meta builds any time soon.

I agree old rune sets could use some love. But bringing perplexity runes closer to other runes is a lot safer, than buffing other rune sets to their level and introducing a balance disaster.
Build diversity is a good thing, but it shouldn’t come with the cost of balance.

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Even with a 10 sec ICD I don’t see this stopping me from destroying d/p thieves and a lot of other cheesy meta builds any time soon.

OFC it won’t since it’s hardly a nerf.

Without a long cooldown Perplexity runes bring a new tool to classes that don’t have them. Sure, if they were to make other runes which give all classes access to significant heals or CC or cleanse on silly low CD, then you could say that Perplexity is on par with other runes. But I certainly hope they won’t.

Back when glamour mesmers were nerfed your argument that only scrubs were affected by confusion was valid. Those mesmers had very low dmg output except the confusion. But smack perplexity, and thus heavy confusion, on my thief and you won’t just be killing yourself for me, I’ll be giving you a helping hand. So rather than perplexity just killing average or bad players I’d say they are training wheels for said average or bad players to compete with the rest of us. :P

Noir.9218:

There are some really laughable 6 rune bonuses with 90 sec ICD… 10 sec ICD on these is swing in the air with the nerfbat (if it even was intended to bring perplexity to the other runeset’s level). A higher ICD and/or a lower stack of confusion applied on interrupt is what is needed imo.

I have to disagree with your assessment. One of the most vicious usages of Perplexity Runes is the potential for massive AoE confusion, in the hands of a class with AoE Interrupt capability. Any ICD, even 10 seconds, will short-circuit that ability, since it’s not as if ANet ICDs account for single-target vs. AoE effect.

Advent.6193:

Noir.9218:

There are some really laughable 6 rune bonuses with 90 sec ICD… 10 sec ICD on these is swing in the air with the nerfbat (if it even was intended to bring perplexity to the other runeset’s level). A higher ICD and/or a lower stack of confusion applied on interrupt is what is needed imo.

I have to disagree with your assessment. One of the most vicious usages of Perplexity Runes is the potential for massive AoE confusion, in the hands of a class with AoE Interrupt capability. Any ICD, even 10 seconds, will short-circuit that ability, since it’s not as if ANet ICDs account for single-target vs. AoE effect.

My analysis is from a small scale perspective where there usually aren’t enough targets around to get those multi interrupts and also no crowd to hide in to let the confusion stacks fade.

But, if the current means of AoE confusion application is found lacking that should be addressed rather than introducing a rune that is just plain overpowered in small scale fights.

Noir.9218:

My analysis is from a small scale perspective where there usually aren’t enough targets around to get those multi interrupts and also no crowd to hide in to let the confusion stacks fade.

Hmmm. Fair from that perspective … although, we’re dealing with a game -let alone game mode- that has never been balanced around 1v1 or -say- 5v5

Noir.9218:

But, if the current means of AoE confusion application is found lacking that should be addressed rather than introducing a rune that is just plain overpowered in small scale fights.

.We agree there, Noir. I also thought that the original WvW Confusion “nerf” was entirely too far, and a 25-33% drop would have been sufficient. Hell, as is, they shafted Mesmer (and to a lesser extent) Engi … but created a Rune spread what applies nastier Confusion than either profession could do in-house? Of kittening course everyone and their mom are using the darn things!

man they removed all my posts fs.

Some guy agreed that good players can deal with perplexity…so you must agree that the people who can’t are bad players. Thus l2p issue. But w/e nerf is likely inc, diversity gone, game dumbed down to cater for bads, familiar story tbh.

kingcragus.6810:

man they removed all my posts fs.

Some guy agreed that good players can deal with perplexity…so you must agree that the people who can’t are bad players. Thus l2p issue. But w/e nerf is likely inc, diversity gone, game dumbed down to cater for bads, familiar story tbh.

How are builds “Diverse” with everyone and their mother running the same runeset?

As I said, I ran these runes yesterday and they might do many things but none of them is promoting skilled play.
If you need them, the l2p issue might be yours.

K U T M.4539:

kingcragus.6810:

man they removed all my posts fs.

Some guy agreed that good players can deal with perplexity…so you must agree that the people who can’t are bad players. Thus l2p issue. But w/e nerf is likely inc, diversity gone, game dumbed down to cater for bads, familiar story tbh.

How are builds “Diverse” with everyone and their mother running the same runeset?

They’re not. Which is why one of my older posts basically TL;DR’s as:
Sure, knock Perplexity down a notch, but bring some of the crappier Runesets up.

As it is now, there are relatively few Runesets that are “popular,” and the rest lie by the wayside. This is not a good thing … in a “perfect” game world, any Rune or Sigil should be equally desirable, and the choice thereof is a “major” choice. Seems ANet’s guys might finally be looking to get things set along those lines, since -iirc- they have mentioned wanting to alter Rune/Sigil effects in general. Good on ’em, I say.

However, we -as players- should try to keep in mind that that process won’t happen overnight, or realistically over a month or two. I will say, however, that the decision to not work on major balance issues during Season 1 is troubling as all heck.

Zumy.6318:

As I said, I ran these runes yesterday and they might do many things but none of them is promoting skilled play.
If you need them, the l2p issue might be yours.

Prefer not to use them tbh, mesmer too slow for me without traveler runes or something.

Already been through this.

Screw you mods. Man up and let ppl insult each other. Stop removing posts.

kingcragus.6810:

man they removed all my posts fs.

Some guy agreed that good players can deal with perplexity…so you must agree that the people who can’t are bad players. Thus l2p issue. But w/e nerf is likely inc, diversity gone, game dumbed down to cater for bads, familiar story tbh.

Game dumbed down to cater for bads?

Sounds exactly like what perplexity runes are doing to the game. Even an idiot can do well in WvW with these OP runes.

Like Zumy said, Perplexity runes don’t promote skilled play. You simply don’t have to be skilled to get interrupts in PvP. Everyone is doing something in PvP all the time.

Also it feels like people are forgetting that these are runes. They simply hold too much weight for that.
Just look up other runes. If you have even a slight sense of balance, you should see how over the top these runes are.

No changes… wow ANet…

I lol’d, they are “working on it” did you really expect something already???